Otherworld - Episode 71: Eagle Eye Pt. 2

Episode Date: February 19, 2024

In the final part of this series, we continue where we left off as Renée finds herself having a seemingly supernatural experience involving a man who she believes to have jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge. This episode contains mention of suicide. The phone number for the national suicide prevention hotline is 988. Want more episodes? For bonus episodes and videos, sign up for the Otherworld Patreon Check out our Merch Follow us on: Instagram, TikTok, Twitter If you have experienced something paranormal or unexplained, email us your story at [e-mail] To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This is part two of Eagle Eye. If you haven't heard part one, you should go back and start there. Just a heads up, this episode discusses death and suicide, which may be difficult for certain listeners. Just a refresh, in the last episode, Renee told us a story of her first love, Danny, who she met all the way back in 1984. Renee attempted suicide when she was just 14. She met Danny shortly after. They fell quickly in love, and dated for about a year. They had plans to get married and actually picked out names for their kids.

I know all of this because she sent me a stack of love letters that they exchanged during that year. The relationship came to an abrupt end when her family had to move to a different town. Renee wanted to make things work with Danny, but he ended up going to live and work with his dad and they completely lost contact.

I think this was really hard for Renee. She ended up dropping out of high school, and working at the mall for several years. During that breakup, she also experienced a sort of vision where she heard a voice saying that she would be with Danny again when she's on the news for helping women. A very strange detail, but I actually have an old letter where she describes experiencing this.

So lots of time goes by. She starts a relationship with an older doctor that she meets. He encourages her to go back to school, get a college degree, and pursue new career. things are going great, and then suddenly, in 1992, Danny appears again. He wants to get back together. Renee tells this to the doctor who encourages her to go meet him and basically decide what she wants to do. Renee meets Danny in Tahoe three times.

He is acting a bit strange and different, but ultimately, Renee decides she wants to be with him. But then, Danny suddenly gets upset, says that he would be terrible for her, and pushes her out the door. And that was that. They didn't talk again. Now, they broke up in 1985. Danny reappears seven years later in 1992. And now we're flashing all the way forward to 2005.

I just want everyone to fully appreciate the length of time that goes by between all of these events. So, 13 years later, René is at dinner. It's February 6th, 2005. 20 years after her and Danny broke up. She's happily married, completely moved on, not thinking about Danny at all, and she's sitting down for dinner with her family.

And suddenly, something weird starts to happen. She's kind of going in and out of visions. One moment she's at the table, the other moment, she's seeing something. She even hears a voice saying, look at the time. It tells her to do this twice. and she looks and notes down two times, 5.45 and 6.10 p.m.

Renee thinks she might be losing her mind. Remember, she's in the beginnings of a lawsuit against one of the most powerful banks in America. She's under a lot of stress and thinks she might be having some kind of psychotic break. Her mom seems to agree and sends Renee home to go rest. Then, while Renee is at home, things get even more intent. and that's where we're going to pick back up. This is episode 71. The title is Eagle Eye Part 2,

and you're listening to Otherworld. Hello? Is this Bobby? Yes, it is. At its core, the science, you can't argue. I'm not worried about all the science. Open the sky. It's almost frustrating that it's happening.

I'm going to die. It swims. We're just like wrong. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a minute. Why would a 38-year-old man jump off the Golden Gate Bridge. What was so wrong?

Why would he do that? Does he have a wife? Does he have, like I, I spun out of emotional control. I remember my dog all of a sudden, popped up, sit upright, seated, jammed into my chest, like, protecting me, shaking. And all of a sudden he was like, and as he did that, like, the whole room changed. I felt everything tingle and like this insane kind of pulsing sort of energy. And it felt like something walked through my front door, like a presence. It was so strong, so clear.

And my dog was staring at that front door like, you know, a murderer had come through. But he wasn't barking or going after it. He was protecting me. Like he was just really, you know, he was my man at that moment. You know, my dog was not going to let anything. He was on high alert. And I felt it so distinctly. And I remember, like, the whole room changed.

It was such a different energy. And I felt it, and it kind of came in, and it just stayed. And I didn't really know what to think about it. And I kept feeling like all this remorse and sadness. And then I was like, okay, something is affecting you. So let it be because I was fighting it. I was trying to rationalize it. And it was so disturbing that I couldn't fight it.

And I finally gave in. And I said, all right, you're just going to feel what you feel and accept it. Go ahead and cry. And so I just cried and cried and cried. And I finally went upstairs into my bedroom to go to bed. and I was like, I was so exhausted. And it, like, nothing had changed with the energy. It wasn't quite as strong, but it was still there.

And I remember the dog came with me, and he slept on the floor like he always did. And I started kind of drifting. And then all of a sudden, I was jolted by that energy. I could feel it in my room, and it was right next to me right here. And I opened my eyes, and it was this, like, miss. like almost like fog you know and it but it was a it was a mass it wasn't the whole room it was just sort of this mass and it was standing there like right next to my bed and it it was so bright and it was so bright and it was so like I just I didn't know what you know and I knew I was like I just felt like it was

another presence I mean it scared bub and geezers out of me but not in a scary way in an acknowledgement of this is like a ghost. It freaked me out. And I remember I like scrambled up in the bed. You know, my husband is right there and he is snoring, sleeping, like dead to the world. And I was like ready to like wake him up and freak out. And all of a sudden I get this, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, just listen. Just listen. Just listen. Just listen. And I like, I got this familiar sense of like absolute calm and peace. And I was like, okay, okay, okay. And I remember I just like, I calmed down and I lay, you know, I kind of, I was sitting up in bed. And I was just like, okay, okay.

I decided for the first time to ask for clarity. And I said, I don't know who you are. Who are you? And immediately I felt this like warmth, insane warmth and glow. And like I can only describe it as love. I felt so safe and so loved. And it was so bright and it was so white. And I remember thinking that this was the light.

Like I was in the light. And as I am acknowledging this, like this image, this man sort of comes forward. And it's completely white behind him. Right, bright, bright. bright white, you know, kind of rays, you know, shooting, but I cannot see anything. It's like a shadowy figure of a man and he is beautiful. Like, I mean, short, wavy cut hair, really muscular. I could see the muscles on his arms.

I can see that his torso's cut, beautiful thighs, like, you know, butt, everything. And, you know, like in a don't. And I remember thinking to myself. right. Some freaking hot guy is, you know, the man from the bridge. And I thought, Renee, you are off your rocker, you know, like, okay, you're going to imagine some sexy hot guy, you know. Like, I was like, you are full of, you know, you're making this shit up. What are, you know? And like, I was really questioning that. And I was arguing, arguing. And no, I just kept seeing this. And so then he says, I'm the man from the Golden Gate Bridge. And I remember thinking, how could you be this beautiful? You know, like, I just thought it was, I thought I was literally having a psychotic break. I mean, it's the only way I can describe it. I just thought these were such crazy thoughts.

And so he says, I need you to go to my funeral and tell my mom I'm okay. I need you to promise me that you will go to my funeral and tell my mom I'm okay. And I just spun. I remember thinking, I don't know who you are. I couldn't see him. You know, he's this beautiful man. Like, okay, right. You know, what?

Like, and he's like, no. And I just was, I was like, I'm like, I don't know who you are. I don't know. How can I go to your funeral if I don't know who you are? And he's like, no, no, no, no. Just listen. Just listen. And so he says, I can be with you anywhere, any time with an eagle eye.

I have an eagle eye. I can see you anywhere. any time. I can be there anytime. I have an eagle eye. You know, and I just, I just laid there and I told myself to just take it in, you know, because I remember telling myself, this is insane. This is insane. And, you know, and I was like, okay, I didn't have, I don't drink, so I'm not drunk. I don't do drugs. And I was like, I feel like I'm on drugs. I feel, I didn't feel like myself. I felt so discombobulated and, you know, confused and just, like, it just was so not real, but it was real. And next thing I knew, there was, like, this image very big, like a huge eagle.

And he said, get on my back. And I, I did. I remember, like, you know, literally climbing on the back of a bird, the wings, you know, my legs between them, and I kind of held on to the wings. And the next thing I knew, I just had this astral explosion into space. We just went. And it went way up, like way up into the sky. And then we came slowly down over the Golden Gate Bridge.

And it was nighttime. And we were above the bridge. And I was like, you know, like riding the bird. And next thing I knew, we just went. And we soared south over the bridge, over San Carlos, Redwood City. And I remember knowing where that was because Redwood City stuck out in my mind. And the reason is because I was born in Redwood City. And then it came back and then it went over the bridge and then headed over like San Rafael over to Sacramento and went over Sacramento, over the river, showed me that.

Then we went back to the bridge. And then I remember still saying, I don't know who you are. I don't know who you are. And then I started asking questions. The first thing I saw was, again, the eagle and telling me that he can be anywhere anytime, that he has an eagle eye. He can see anything anywhere. And I wanted to know, like, who was I supposed to tell? And he, what about a daughter and a wife?

And it was really clear. Like there was this really repulsive no when I mentioned wife. Like, no. Like that was not what he was here to talk to me about. And then I was said, what about children? And he showed me a daughter. Like I didn't see anything specific, but it was clear that it was a daughter. And the message was that that was not what my purpose was.

And that got like kind of like pushed away. And it was dark and it kind of moved away. And then coming into my vision, I was still like, I don't know who you are. And I'm still like, I'm really kind of desperate and worked up over it. And he shows me the Liberty Bell. That didn't really make any sense to me. And then he shows me an eagle again. Like, I clearly see the eagle again.

And then he shows me a Mexican flag with an eagle holding a snake. And then he shows me through. three individuals, two women and a man. All I see is sort of the outlines of their body and very distinct features of the mother. She has this blonde, like bleach blonde hair, and it's sort of short and it's swept kind of like that. That is all I can see. He tells me that's his mom. And then I see a sister.

And same thing. She's a little taller, thinner, no face, but blue. bleach blonde hair down to here and kind of wavy and like bleach blonde, really, really blonde. No idea who she is. And then I see a brother kind of tall, little overweight brown hair, no features. I need to let that mom know that he's okay. And I have to promise him that I'm going to go to his funeral. And I cannot figure out who the hell this person is for the life of me. You know, as he's trying to basically show me who it is. I mean, I really feel like he was trying to show me who I was talking to with all this imagery that wasn't making sense.

There was another really powerful image that he gave me in terms of needing to tell his mom. And one moment, I remember seeing the coroner's table. All of a sudden, like, we flew into the coroner's office. and we were hovering above a metal exam table, I guess. And his body was laying out on the table. And I saw the woman with the blonde hair again. No facial features, just the hair. It was her.

And she was hysterically sobbing. Like she was just sobbing and rubbing, running her fingers, like touching his face and running her fingers through his hair, crying. And it was very clear to me that that was her at the coroner's office identifying his body. I don't know how long this goes on. I mean, this is just all happening in my room. And I am feeling like I have never felt so at peace.

All of the fear from the beginning of that encounter was gone. I felt love. I felt light. There was nothing frightening about it. but it was very frustrating for me because I couldn't understand what was happening and during the whole thing I was trying to rationalize it and I was arguing and I remember at one point arguing like towards the end of it I said to him there are no eagles at the golden cape bridge okay there are no eagles there are seagulls but there are no eagles at the golden gate bridge like I couldn't

put my head around this bricking eagle and he got so upset he's like No, no Siegel eagle. I kind of laughed and I was like, okay, okay, I don't know who you are, but I promise you, I will try and go to your funeral, I promise, you know? And I was just like, I just didn't know what to say at that point because I was so frustrated, but then at the same time there was sort of this moment where I kind of was like, okay, I got the message, I didn't understand what I was supposed to do with it. but okay this is happening i'm not going to fight with it i feel completely crazy i'm not sure

if i'm having a psychotic break i know i'm not drunk i know i'm not on drugs i don't know what the hell is going on and i just decided to agree and the minute i did that the energy kind of started to dissipate in the room and then i felt like all of a sudden i felt like all of sudden this other presence came in. Like there was a new energy. It was different and it definitely entered the room. And I got the sense that that energy was there to move, move this person on. And I said, the last words I said was, I promise you, I will do my best and try to go to your funeral, but I don't know who you are. And it ended. I couldn't tell you what time it was. I don't know how long it lasted.

I have no memory of looking at a clock. I pretty much passed out from exhaustion after that, and I remember waking up the next morning, and I felt completely normal. I was happy. I didn't feel any of that intense grief, sadness, nothing. I remember thinking, what in the hell happened last night?

At first I was going to tell my husband, and then I decided not to, because it just was so insane. And I thought, I don't, I must have had some kind of psychotic break or I don't know what. And I remember being really relieved that I felt totally normal the next day. And so I told myself that I was never, ever going to tell anyone about that story in my life. And I was going to forget about it because it was so utterly bizarre and made no sense. And so I got up.

And that day, we were preparing to file. the lawsuit in federal court. It was about to be a big deal on Wall Street. On top of that, I had to switch firms because I could no longer work at the firm that I was suing. So I was now at a completely new firm, new people. My new employer is like, okay, are you a troublemaker? You know, like, I was managing a lot of stuff.

So this was the last thing that I wanted to focus on. And I kind of just told myself to let it go. I let it go. Fast forward, Valentine's Day, February 14th. I'm about to go to work, and I'm in my office at home. I get an email from my friend Johnny, who introduced Dan and I in high school. And it was pretty matter of fact. It just said, I want to let you know that Dan died. Here's his funeral announcement. The funeral is in Sacramento on February 19th. I thought you might want to attend. and that was it. And I just remember being just sort of shocked.

I just thought, oh, my God, I'm never going to see him again. So I called my sister, and she said, are you sitting down? I said, no, I'm standing in my office. She says, I think you need to sit down, close your door. So I walked behind my desk and sat at my chair. And I remember my whole wall facing the rest of the office is glass, you know, so it's very see-through and she told me, you know, that he jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge on February 6th and that he jumped at like poll number 93 and I, I just, I was so stunned. Like, it's just,

you know, it just kind of hit me like a ton of bricks. I physically reacted in a way that was so unexpected, you know, just like hyperventilating. And I remember I just, I just, I just started shaking. Like I just, it was just like I felt dizzy. I felt like the room was, you know, I felt like I was spinning. I mean, everything felt so out of control. And I had to get up from the chair where I was sitting and excuse myself. And one of my friends, you know, she noticed that I was not myself.

And she asked me if I was okay. And I just ran into the bathroom. And it just, like, I was so overwhelmed, holding onto the sink and hyperventilating. and, you know, like, what is happening? Is this, like, it was like, it was Dan. It was Dan. Oh, my God, that was Dan. It was Dan.

How could this, how could this be? What is like, you know, I just was like, what is happening? And she came into the bathroom and I remember, I just blurted all kinds of stuff out to her. And she took it all in stride and she was really supportive. And, you know, we kind of, she helped me get myself together. And I went back in there. and continued my day. And, you know, after I started really thinking about things

and it all over the course of the next few days started materializing. And I was like, oh, my God. And I was remembering the images. And I was remembering the words. And I was remembering every little single detail. And I just remember I suddenly allowed all of that to come back. And I remember thinking, my God, that Dan,

could it have been Dan? like the man from the 38 years like but none of the other stuff I knew yet and so I wasn't sure and so my sister and I decided we were going to go to the funeral you know I remember the day getting ready for the funeral having this distinct feeling of him being present with me as I was getting ready and just feeling really distraught and I went to the funeral and the minute I walked in first person I saw I saw it was getting ready and just feeling really distraught and I went to the funeral and the minute I walked in first person I saw all was his dad. I was like the second person there. And his dad was really weird. And he said, oh, I remember you. He goes, you're that girl that wouldn't let go. And I just remember, I just felt, it just, it kind of broke my heart.

And then we went in and we sat down and I saw his mom and a sister come in. And we went through the service. and there were a lot of people there that I didn't know. There were a lot of people I knew from high school that I hadn't seen in 20 years. And it was intense. I mean, I was really confused by, you know, because nothing was sequential, right? You know, it was like bits of information coming at me. I, first of all, I thought that maybe that was Dan that night, right?

But the eagle, all of the stuff that I saw made had no context for me at all. Even in that moment going to the funeral and having this realization, there was just no context for any of that stuff. The only thing that I connected at that moment was, oh, that was, yeah, that was Dan's mom and his sister because, I mean, I immediately saw the hair when I was standing in front of them as I went to hug them. And it bled me instantly like, oh my God, that's who it was, of course. And in that moment, I remember having, again, sort of like shaking and feeling tingly and like exactly like I did when I was having that experience that night. And I just remember, you know, just feeling so sad for his mom. And I told her, I said, I need to talk to you. And she just hugged me and she's like, okay, honey, okay, honey.

And I said, no, I'm really serious. I go, I really need to talk to you. And I said, can you call me after the funeral? And she's like, of course, honey, of course. I'm so happy to see you. Danny loved you so much. You were the love of his life and, you know, Lana, you know, and it was just like so welcoming and sweet.

And so I think we exchanged phone numbers. And then a couple days later she called me. And I said, I really need to meet with you. I said, something happened to me the night that Danny died and I need to talk to you. I go, would you be willing to meet me? I don't want to tell you anything, but I need to talk to you. And she's like, of course, honey, of course. Why don't we meet at Sam's and Tiburon next weekend?

So I said, okay. So that's what we did. I drove to Tibran and we met at Sam's Cafe. and I remember walking into the restaurant sitting at the table and I looked at her and I just said, I go, this is so extraordinary. And she goes, how are you, darling? And, you know, she was like, you know, she was just so happy to see me and all of this stuff. And I said, you know, I said, Kathy, before we say anything, I just need to tell you what I came here to say.

And I don't know if it's going to mean anything to you. So I said, it's going to sound really crazy. and I told her the whole story exactly the way that I told you. I remember she just kind of leaned back and she just kind of lost her breath and she looked at me and she said, you don't understand what peace you've given me. Because there was no suicide note. They were looking for him. He was behaving strangely.

They, you know, something was, his behavior was very paranoid. And I didn't know what she meant at that point. So we started talking. All right, we have to take a quick break. We'll be right back with the rest of the story. Welcome back. I just want to jump in here and point out how complicated the reality of this is. I feel like in the context of listening to this as a story,

the sheer insanity and awkwardness, of all of it can be lost a little bit. Renee and Danny dated for about a year, 20 years ago, when they were teenagers. When she had that night of visions, Renée genuinely thought she might have had a psychotic break. She tried to move on and focus on work until she got that news, which basically made everything click. Now, imagine being in Renee's shoes here. Imagine going to your high school boyfriend's funeral. 20 years since anyone has seen you, showing up out of nowhere in order to tell his grieving family

that you had a vision about riding on the back of a giant eagle. What are the odds of that going well? You could not pay me to do that. And I really think Renee would never have done this if she didn't genuinely feel compelled and truly believe that she had to do it. This is also the reason I was so hesitant about the story at first. When I first read it, I knew I couldn't just take one person's word for all of this because of how sensitive it is. But like I said, we're able to speak to Dan's sister and also Renee's sister off the record who confirmed all of it.

So with all of that said, let's get back to the story. The very first thing she said to me, I think was that he had been missing for several days. They didn't know where he was. She was concerned. He was in living in a U-Haul truck. His last known whereabouts had been a parking garage in San Francisco. So she set the stage for me and also I think mentioned that he had been in trouble. She says, Danny died at 5.45.

He jumped off the bridge. I just remember like I lost my breath. I thought I was going to faint because the whole room just suddenly went far away. And I just remember trying to stay grounded so I could hear everything. So the night that I had the vision, when I looked at the clock, I remember noting 545 very specifically. And then later on when that voice came back again, noting the time and it was 6.10 on that clock.

while I'm sitting at dinner, 545 is the exact time Dan runs and leaps over the edge at poll number 93. And his body was retrieved at, I think, 6-11. So when she said those times, like, you know, I mean, like, I'm, you know, I'm just digesting this over the last week, two weeks. And I just couldn't believe what I heard. And then she just kept going. I just remember the room. Like, I felt like I was spinning. And, you know, we're in the middle of a restaurant.

And I couldn't freak out. And she, the next thing that she tells me was, we talked about, you know, kind of the vision. She talks about the symbolism of the eagle. And that, you know, was, that made her really smile. And she talked about that was his talisman. it meant freedom to him. And, you know, that really tied into, obviously, the insane eagle imagery that I had throughout that night,

not to mention the eagle eye comment. And that she addressed as well, and she said to me, she said, Danny always knew where you were. He never let you go. He loved you. And like, I needed to hear that because, you know, I was really feeling screwed up about all my feelings. I'm married, you know.

It's 2005. And this just hit me out of nowhere and made me realize that, you know, I've never resolved everything because it ended so weird. And it wasn't so much, you know, I just, I was just feeling so weird about everything. and I wanted to kind of get it resolved. And so it was making me realize that I really needed to hear that because I hadn't resolved that yet. And then she tells me that it was also on his shirt that he was wearing. And that just, I just remember, like, I remember thinking, this isn't, this is this really happening? Is this happening?

And then she talked about the flying. Oh, my God. You know, because, you know, the Redwood City. And she just smiled because I think she worked in Redwood City. But more remarkably, she lived in San Carlos, which is directly next to Redwood City. It was him showing me where his mom left because I was struggling to figure out who the fuck he was. and who she was. So she says that, and I was just like, so, you know, everything that I just told her makes sense to her, and she's confirming it. And then Sacramento is where Dan lived and his dad lived and where he was, where he was, Elk Grove, Sacramento area. That, you know, she was just telling me that, yes, that's what that mean.

You know, like very matter-of-factly confirming, you know, the flying, the location. I mean, she was just smiling when she told me all of this because it made absolute sense to her. I remember she just smiled and laughed, you know, about the whole hair section because, I mean, literally I'm sitting in front of her. And of course, it's just, I'm like, holy shit. There was levity in the moment. And that really helped kind of ground me again.

She, she grounded me because I didn't feel crazy, you know, even though I was still judging myself. about all of this and what I was experiencing. And so, yeah, and then the Liberty Bell, because I remember, I was like, I don't understand the Liberty Bell. And she just started laughing. And she goes, he was born in Philadelphia. You know, of course, here we are in this restaurant talking about this insanely emotional stuff.

And we have to kind of keep it together. And she addresses the body and all of that. And she says, she said to me, she said, it's extraordinary that you saw that. She says, because that didn't happen until the next day. And I said, what do you mean? And she said, he died on the sixth in the evening. I didn't find out until the next day because he didn't have any identification on his body. So it had to be processed and get to the course.

and they were able to locate her because he had a criminal record through his fingerprints. He had been in Soledad State Prison and that is how they located her the next day. And she described to me that the way I saw it was exactly what happened, that she ran her fingers through his hair. It gets me so emotional. Ran her fingers and, you know, She said she touched him and her beautiful boy and, you know, everything that a mother would do. And it was just such a, like such a bonding moment for us because it was wild. You know, we're in a restaurant trying not, you know, I was probably tearing up like I was. I know I was because it was really, it was wild for her to address that.

And so in my vision that night, I saw the Mexican flag with the eagle holding the snake in its talents. And I remember the symbolism, of course, of the eagle. And I asked her about that. I said, well, I don't, what about this Mexican? And she, that's when she mentioned to me that, you know, he had been involved in, you know, some activity that, may have been, you know, involving drugs across the border and getting into trouble, you know, doing that through carburetors. And because he was a carburetor recycler, that was the business that he was in with his,

you know, his father at the time. And she just was, you know, kind of talking about he was in trouble that, you know, he was involved in things that weren't really great. I knew that there was gambling, you know. She had just told me that he had, you know, been gambling and there had been problems going on after we split up. You know, she sort of caught me up to speed after I moved away and after I last saw him in 92.

You know, things didn't get better for him. I knew what happened after he pushed me out the door. And from that point on, you know, things didn't go well for him. He had a pretty severe gambling addiction. He ended up embezzling money with the help of a girlfriend from her employer to feed that addiction. They were caught. He ended up in Soledad prison. He and the wife had been estranged long ago and that he had actually.

actually had a second wife, you know, he married in prison because it was his girlfriend and they had embezzled the money that put him in prison from her company. And so they got married in prison so that they wouldn't have to testify against each other. So that was a little shocking to me and that they were also estranged during this period. So, you know, that made sense to me why he did not need me to address anything with a wife. She addressed the daughter and she said that he, after I saw him in 92, he didn't really have contact with the daughter. I think her mother remarried and she was adopted by her adoptive father. So in that conversation, you know, I told her that the man from the bridge asked me to go to his funeral and tell his mom that he's okay

and made me promise that I would do that. And that was the underlying theme of the message. That it was really important that his mom know he's okay. And it meant something to her because he was running. He was in hiding. They didn't know what was going on. So she up until his death didn't know if he was okay. And she was deeply concerned about him.

You know, this all happened, this conversation. I mean, it was immediate, you know. We didn't get into any small talk, obviously, because I didn't want information, you know, before I told her the story. And so I remember it was a very surreal feeling. And I think we both felt this very, you know, the energy was intense.

It was really difficult. But in a really good way. And I felt, I think we both. felt very comforted at that at the end of that conversation. I think we both felt this sense of love. And I remember her telling me that Danny truly gave me a gift by not pulling me into that life and by pushing me out that door. And that was a real aha moment for me. And so, you know, it brought both of us this really kind of sense of peace about all this turmoil that we had been feeling up to that moment. And I think that really helped. And then we remained connected up until

her passing recently. So, you know, we had our lunch and we kind of went our separate ways and we decided to stay in touch. And I think she talked to her daughter about it and her daughter called me afterwards and she just thought it was so remarkable and she believed everything. And, you know, it all just made sense to them. And she said to me, she said, you know, I have to tell you that the day that Danny slammed the door in your face, he showed up at my house for five weeks distraught. he was absolutely distraught at leaving and pushing you out the door. He wanted to be with you, but he knew that he was in a really bad place and he didn't want to pull you into that life. And he kept telling me that he was going to hit it big and he was going to go back and he was going to get you one day.

He was going to find you one day. He was going to come back for you. And I later found out that through friends from school, I guess after high school, he actually went. and bought an engagement ring for us. And, you know, he was during all that period that he was actually planning to ask me to marry him and his dad topped him out of going to Santa Rosa with me and going back to Sacramento and just forgetting about all of that.

And so that's what he ultimately ended up doing. But all this had been happening in the background. On top of that, you know, before he died, we were getting lots of phone crank calls at our house, constantly for a few months prior to his death. And I always felt like it was somebody that I knew and that was reaching out and wanted to say something to me. And a couple times I almost got that person to say something to me. And I now believe it was him because I found out from his sister and his mother and his brother that he kept tabs on me, that he even knew where I lived.

You know, so he never let go of me, but I didn't know it. There was always kind of this little connection that he had to my life in Santa Rosa. He knew where I was. He knew it was okay, but he didn't interfere with my life. A lot was going on for me at this time. I, you know, I knew that I was going to be filing this massive lawsuit against one of the world's largest banks and that they were going to come at me hard. And so I was really forcing myself at that period

because I was so vulnerable and emotional. I could not let this consume me. The attorneys decided that we were going to hold a press conference on March 31st, 2005, announcing the lawsuit filing against Citigroup Smith, Barney for gender discrimination. I had to go to San Francisco. I had to walk into a room with, you know, the press, cameras, and it was delivered live. I made a statement. It was immediately the next day in all the newspapers that morning. It was sort of like game on. And I was really stunned

that it got that much attention. So that was on a Friday. I didn't think much about it. And then over the weekend. I guess the phone system at my attorney's office because they were putting up the phone number if anybody wanted to come forward and their phone system went down. And so we had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people calling. Women were finding me on Facebook, sending me messages. Women still call me. Young women, many, many young women in finance industry, it has never stopped.

It started in 2005, finally settled in $8 for $33 million, which was a lot of money at that time for 2,800 women. It was immediately the next day in all the newspapers that morning. You know, my clients were calling me. They're like, why are you on Channel 2 news? You know, everybody's news was playing and here I am. All of a sudden, you know, I just had no idea that it was really going to happen like that. San Francisco, our two of the four plaintiffs in this newest case against Smith Barney for financial consultants.

Renee Bassbender and Mocha Ann and Denver Orlando there are joined by Attorney Kelly Dermany. And I want to thank you all for being with us. And, Dermody, I may start with you. If you can just tell us the origins of this case and then what's behind the lawsuit in which you are seeking class action status? Yes, thank you, Ron. This case is on behalf of female financial consultants at Smith Barney. and they have alleged that Smith Barney denies women the same business opportunities, sales support, and compensation that's offered to their female counterparts.

They are seeking to have the company change, its corporate culture, to have accountability and transparency in the compensation system, and to provide relief for the women affected. Here I am standing up for all these women and equal pay, and it's being broadcast. that's when it clicked to me. Like, that was the vision I had. You know, like, we were going to be together again when I was on TV for helping women. There was just this moment where, I mean, like so many moments in the story where I just went, oh, my God, I remember this from, like, literally being transported back to my bedroom at age 16, crying and that voice.

And then the imagery suddenly was like, damn. And I just remember feeling sort of elated and excited. And then also like, stop it. You're being so insane. Like, you know, this is just too crazy. And just trying to dismiss it. And, you know, because so much was going on. It was just so freaky.

It was really freaky. So after that, a lot of paranormal things started occurring just around my house in the house and experiences that weren't just experienced by me. My husband started noticing them. So, for example, when I was a child or when I was in high school, Dan would always watch me get ready for school and I would sit in the sink and, you know, he would watch. and we would talk. And so after Dan's death, immediately, when I was feeling his presence in my room, when I was changing,

I would really get the sense of him watching me getting ready like he used to. I mean, it was just that real intense, like feeling of him being there, particularly being in my bedroom, in the corner where my closet is, I had a chair, and I always felt like he would just sort of enter my room

and I would feel a presence literally sit down in that chair sort of kick back and just kind of go like this, you know, sit back, lean back, put his hand under his chin and just watch and watch me, you know, like watch me move through the room, watch me change. And I felt that for weeks and weeks and weeks. And I would walk into my bathroom and I have a vanity that is specifically where I sit down with a light that's on that wall and it's across the room. there would be frequent times where I would walk into the bathroom to head to my vanity, get ready, and the light would turn on. And to turn that light on, it has its own separate switch on that wall, nowhere else in the bathroom.

It is not switched when you walk in. And all of a sudden, you know, even though I started really feeling he was there and I would kind of address it, say, you know, I feel like you're here, are you here? the lights would turn on before I ever would even get to my vanity to get ready. So I would walk through the threshold and one step in as I'm walking there, the lights would turn on. And this started happening pretty frequently, pretty quickly after he died. And I remember pointing it out to my husband. And, you know, he's a scientist. You know, he thought it was odd.

And he thought, well, there must be something weird. And, you know, I'd say, well, how can it turn on? You know, I said it just turns on when I walk in here. And it happened, I don't know, probably a dozen times for a few weeks. And then it just sort of stopped because I kind of acknowledged it. And I would sort of say, okay, hi, Dan, you know, when he did it instead of, you know, just kind of joking. And then, like, it carried on into our kitchen. Our kitchen lights above our sink are on their own circuit.

it and we had a fixture that had separate bulbs and all of a sudden sort of random bulbs would just there would be like a pop and kind of a spark and you know it would startle us and you know that like was kind of going on i felt like he was playing with me and like trying to communicate with me i don't know i mean like that's how i took it so that it didn't scare me and then i didn't you know and then i also would not take it too literally. I would say, okay, well, we're having electric disturbances, you know, you're making too much out of this. You know, it's random. Some days there would be nothing. Some days I would really feel him. Some days I wouldn't feel him at all. You know, and I kind of, it just, it varied. There was no real pattern to it. I thought before Dan's death that I had

thrown away all the letters from high school, all the love letters that we wrote each other. I cleaned out a closet and decided it was time for all of that to be thrown away. And so I was pretty heartbroken after his death that I had made that decision and it was really bothering me a lot. And one day out of the blue, I just get this really strong, kind of that feeling again of a tingliness and just this very strong voice. You missed a box. Look in the closet.

Look in the back of the closet. And like, I didn't even really know what that was referring to because I wasn't thinking about the letters or any of it. And I opened the closet and followed along. And it just literally took my breath away. Everything was there buried under something. There they were. And, you know, wasn't my own memory subconscious? I don't know.

But it just gave me the closure that I needed. I had been talking to my husband, you know, like I didn't keep this assumption. secret from him. As I was having these revelations, I was sharing this with him because he is my husband. And he honestly, as much as he is a scientist, he kind of, you know, he doesn't really question this stuff. You know, I kept telling him that I felt like Dan was in the house and he said that he kind of felt that way. I told him that I was really struggling with things and it was just really hard for me. and he knew about my suicide. So he was very compassionate around all of it.

But he finally, we kind of finally came to the agreement that we need to verbalize and tell Dan that he needed to move on from our house. My husband has really high-end stereo equipment. He's a big stereo file. All of a sudden, his stereo started doing weird things. And like, like the vacuum tube started, you know, exploding and bursting. and we just had like all this crazy like electrical energy type of disturbances going on in our house. And, you know, he started getting kind of irritated with it. And, you know, he's like, this is, this is enough.

This is enough. I realized that it was now affecting our life and him. And I realized I felt like I was holding him because I was seeking so many answers. and we felt like he was lingering. And I acknowledged that I needed to resolve my feelings once and for all. And so I kind of told him what I felt was going on. And he said, well, fine, let's just tell him to go. And he's like, that's enough, damn.

I need you to leave my shit alone. Stop messing with, you know, like really direct. And, you know, he was kind of angry. And, you know, and then I kind of just went along. You know, I'd say, look, it's time for you. you to go, you know, if it's not, if you're not ready to cross over, you know, there's other work for you to do, you need to go. I need to be in this. You can't be here anymore. You can't interfere anymore. You can't, like, this is affecting me and it's not good and we need to, this needs to end.

I just felt like he was always going to be there, but the way that I described it to him is, I need you to not be at this level. I need you to move out many levels, like these energy levels. I need you to move farther away and higher up. After, you know, we kind of had these, I don't know, probably lasted a couple weeks where we were really verbal. It sort of just stopped. Like we could tell that the house, that we have the house again.

All of the electrical disturbances stopped. I didn't feel the energy. I didn't feel his presence in my room. You know, I didn't feel like he was there. I felt like he respected our space and moved on. But I also felt like I could call him back anytime. I still, to this day, feel like he's there, but he's really far away. I guess at that point, I needed to go to the bridge.

Drove to San Francisco, and, you know, I wrote about all of this. in my diary. It was during the day and I became so overwhelmed and distraught. Like the energy on the bridge was something I just can't even explain. I felt so many like lost souls. It was so eerie and so overwhelming and just way more powerful than I even imagined that it would be. And I got to light hole 93 hole and I knew that he had jumped over the edge. facing the view of San Francisco. So I was standing there looking at that and looking down and just like trying to take it all in and not lose my mind. And I just remember it was really sobbing.

Like I was crying. I turned around and I looked out over the ocean and it hit me like a ton of bricks. And I was like, oh my God, this is what I saw that night when I saw the cliff. It was the exact spot that Dan was when he died. and if I turned around, I could see what I saw that night. I didn't see the city side. I saw that side, the sunset side, the Pacific side. And I just, I freaking lost it.

I was hysterical and all by myself. I mean, it gets me emotional when I think about it. And all of a sudden, there was like this tap on my shoulder. And he put his hand and he says, are you okay? I'm going to pull you back now. and he like pulled me back and I didn't know what happened and I turn around and it's the CHP officer and he tells me that they spotted me on the surveillance cameras because they've got cameras all over the bridge they can see people everywhere and they thought I was suicidal and I was

going to jump and he came out there to intervene and we ended up talking for about an hour standing there it turned out that he was there that night he was on duty but he didn't he was not the officer that pulled, you know, it was down at the bottom of the bridge, but he was on patrol that night. It really grounded me back into reality and he really helped me. It just made me feel less crazy, I guess. You know, during that time when I met Dan, you know, obviously I had to talk about my suicide to him and it was really foreign to him. He really helped me. He really helped me not be that person. And, you know, I feel it was very fundamental to who I became today. You know, so people talk about karma, right? You know, Dan was super instrumental in going me out

of the darkness and helping me find the light and stay in the light. And when he died, I just really feel like I was the vessel for him to connect to his mother. and sister so that they knew that he loved them. And it was sort of like, I can only feel like it was, you know, my karma and a payback. Like, that's how connected we are. And maybe in that moment of his death, you know, who knows what we realized. But whatever happened, that message came through more than anything. And that's why we're here today.

I feel like when my time comes and I cross, I believe in my heart, that Dan's going to be the first one there. Like, I just, I just know that that is going to help me cross over. He's going to be there. And so for me, I can say that I know that that love will carry me on to the other side. And that is where, you know, we will meet again. You know, he'll be waiting there for me. And that gives me peace.

It's not so scary. All right, thank you so much to Renee for telling us this story. And also thank you to Danny and his family. For so many reasons, this was such a sensitive one to do. And it was an honor for us to be able to help tell this story. I thought this saga was incredible. Something I get asked a lot now is whether or not I believe in these paranormal topics now that I host this show. And what I often tell people is that it doesn't matter if I believe.

It doesn't matter if anyone believes. Paranormal events still affect people's lives and even the course of history every single day, whether or not you believe in it. And I think this story really captures that. It's a lot more than just a simple ghost story. As I mentioned before, there was so much of this story that was not able to be included. There are many aspects of Dan's death that left his family and Renee with major questions and even suspicions. for many reasons, including legal, I can't put those things on the main episode, but we're going to try to go over them in an epilogue on Patreon.

You can hear that at patreon.com slash otherworld if you're curious. I'll also do my best to answer questions from listeners. Once again, the suicide and crisis hotline number is 988 in the United States and Canada. In Mexico, you can call Linnea de la Vida at 800-911-2000. There are people available 24-7 to talk. Thank you once again to Renee and also Danny. This has been episode 71, Eagle Eye Part 2, and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner.

Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice Jackal. The song you're hearing right now is Blue Coop by Twin Peaks. This was edited by Theo Kranz and myself and engineered by Theo Schaefer. Our artwork is by Coltysack Studio. Production help by Nikki Kate Delgado and Haley Pearson. Please show us your support by subscribing and leaving a five-star review and also telling your friends about Otherworld.

If you want to hear bonus episodes, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash Otherworld. Our social media is at Otherworld Pod. That's our handle on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter. Thank you to the team at Odyssey. J.D. Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berner-Ree, Leo Reese Dennis, Rob Morandi, Eric Donnelly, Matt Casey, Moor Curran, Josephina-Fran, and Hillary Shuff.

follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you could send us your story at Stories at otherworldpod.com.