Otherworld - Episode 98: Discernment Pt. 2

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

In this episode, Jack and Hunter finally have the chance to speak with Hunter's mom, Noelle, who shares her side of the story and discusses her gift of discernment. Check out our Merch Follow us on: Instagram, TikTok, Twitter For business inquiries contact: [e-mail] If you have experienced something paranormal or unexplained, email us your story at [e-mail] To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. In the last episode, I met Hunter, who told me about a strange experience she had with an imaginary friend during childhood. And then she revealed to me an even stranger and much more abstract saga that involves her mom. Hunter told me that while growing up, her mom's home was always rather chaotic, and they didn't always have the greatest relationship. But then very recently, Hunter's mom essentially revealed to her that she has been secretly working as a so-called religious demonologist for over 20 years. Upon hearing this, all sorts of distant memories came into place like puzzle pieces for Hunter, like her mom going over to her cousin's house to help out with something in the basement, people approaching

her in grocery stores crying, thanking her for something, and also a mysterious male friend that was living in their trailer on and off for some time that turned out to be a religious demonologist himself who is apparently there working on cases. These two were running around in the woods together doing who knows what. And at the time, Hunter's mom just told her that this was a friend and they were doing research. I think Hunter just assumed they were just dating and doing a bad lie to cover that up. I completely understand as a person with divorced parents myself, you don't really need to know much more sometimes.

I was so fascinated by this whole situation. I couldn't imagine finding out something so extreme about my own parent and how that would completely re-contextualize my entire life. That's exactly what you. has happened with Hunter. And Hunter told me that she has still never really gotten direct answers about all this stuff from her mom. And she still doesn't really know the full stories about these strange adventures her mom was apparently having. I wanted to try to help Hunter out by speaking to her mom myself to basically facilitate this conversation. And I was also very curious.

myself. You know, this is a really unusual situation to say the least. I believe I told Hunter at the end of our last conversation that if her mom was the one who had written in, she almost certainly wouldn't have made it onto Otherworld for a variety of reasons, mainly that we just typically do not feature stories from people who are actively seeking out the paranormal. and it seems like her mom was very actively seeking it out. But I became really invested in this saga, and I wanted to help Hunter get some answers to this great mystery in her life. And like I said, I was just so, so curious to simply see what this woman was like.

And honestly, I wanted to hear some of these stories myself. Additionally, Hunter's mom told me on email that, She had in her possession a voice recorder that contained some creepy audio from a particular story. I had her overnight ship this recorder to my audio engineer Theo to check it out. That will come up later in this episode. But for so many reasons, I was invested in this saga and wanted to know more. I had no idea what to expect. But eventually, I got on a call with Hunter's mom, whose name is Noel.

and was joined by Hunter herself. This is episode 98. The title is, Discernment, Part 2, and you're listening to Otherworld. Is this Bobby? Yes, it is. At its core, the science, you can't argue.

I'm worried about all the science. Up in the sky. It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm going to die. It's limbs were just like wrong. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a minute. Hi, Hunter.

How's it going? Hi, Jack. Doing well. How are you? I'm excited. Me too. Nervous but excited. You're nervous?

Yeah. I'm a little nervous too. Yeah. My mom is a character. I think you're going to like her, but I'm a little nervous. I'm just excited to hear these stories. Yeah, me too, honestly. I'm scared.

You're scared of the spookiness or of me talking to your mom? Of the spookiness. like think about, okay, all these things that happened to me in childhood. What if there's others layers to the story that I haven't heard yet? That's going to be scary. Yeah. Like looking back in hindsight. No, of course.

Well, you can tell her to join at this point, like if you want to let her know. But is there anything you want me to ask her? I feel like I want to know when she started having experiences. I want to know about the Tumenologist boyfriend, quite frankly. I think we have to get to the bottom of it. I want to know, did you ever watch the Breaking Bad box set? Yeah, you know what the funniest part is? My dad has the box set.

Oh, so he got the box set from you? Yeah, he did. Because he lives in the middle of nowhere. They wouldn't even bring out high-speed Wi-Fi to his house. So I was like, Dad, do you want to watch this show? I have the box. My wife's boyfriend gave me this breaking bad box set. He doesn't know that part of it, but he has the box set.

He's rewashed it like eight times. Hey, it's a good show. Does she know to join that we're ready for her? Yep, I said join whenever. She said she's trying now. Fingers crossed that this goes well. Yeah. Okay, here she comes, okay.

Yeah, okay. Hi, Mom. I made it You're in Hello Hi Mom this is Jack Jack this is my mom

Noel I've heard a lot about you Yeah I bet you have Hunter has told me A lot of different things But I don't think we have the whole story And I think there's a lot of stories That Hunter doesn't know

And I'm excited to hear them I do Oh are you sure Are you sure about that? I guess my first question is, when did you first start experiencing strange things? When did you first realize something was going on? Well, truthfully, I mean, it goes way back. I've always seen dark shadows or photographs.

people will move in the photographs. What? I have never heard that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the faces will move towards you. I don't like old photographs. It's old photographs, like black and white.

Or when you look in, people like kind of came to life. It's horrifying. I would always see people and nobody else is seeing the people. So whether you know, like, I. see dead people. Pretty much, yeah. It's always been that way. What's an example of that? How many would you like? I'm sorry, I mean to sound like hearted. What's like a vivid memory of like seeing a spirit that wasn't that nobody else could see? Sure. I worked at a best Western in Denver, Colorado and I worked the midnight shift as an auditor. So it was the 11 a.m. till 7 a.m.

It happened to be about 2.30 in the morning and it was just myself and then the security guard his name was Tracy. And there was a massive electrical storm. There's a lots of lightning storms that happen. They kind of come off the Rockies and go over the planes. But when you're in a business and you have a lot of computers, we had to shut everything down. So of course, being a hotel, there's always rumors, you know, oh, there was this bride that killed herself on her wedding night and she haunts the halls. You're like, yeah, okay, whatever. So this particular night, I was in the lobby and only one light on, so I'm on a sofa, and Tracy had left because he was going across the street to pick up some other guests that went to the wrong hotel. So it is

raining. It is thundering and lightning and the power's kind of going off and on and it's just unnerving. So I just sat down and a woman started walking down the hallway that I could see and it was just odd to me. So I got up and I went over by here and I'm like, man, is there anything I can do to help you? And she did not answer me. She just kind of walked by me. And I didn't really notice anything out of the ordinary at first. I was looking at her. her hair was up like in a bun, a little fancy, dark hair and brown eyes. But she looked very, very sad. And as soon as she turned, she looked at me.

And as she went down that hallway, I realized that she is lighting up the hallway. And she does not have feet. She's floating. And she goes around the short corner, maybe a 15-foot hallway, and turns left and goes through the doors. So I sat down. It's just like, like you've just seen a ghost. I sat down on the sofa and the security guard, Tracy, came back over and I'm just kind of, um, speechless, which doesn't happen often. I'm sure Hunter can attest to that. And he's like, are you okay? And I said, uh, yeah, he goes, you look like you've seen it close. Did you see Mary? And I'm like, is that the,

the bride? He's like, yes. So I reiterated the story too. him. And, you know, I mean, that was just, you know, he's laughing because everybody has seen it. It was constant. Anytime you're alone in that building, there was something there with me. I could be anywhere and I could tell you within five minutes or less if there's something in the building, the room, the house, the property, the grounds. I feel it. I know. Whether it's good or whether it is evil. Tell me about this imaginary friend that Hunter had. Yeah.

When she was young, we'd go upstairs to get her from a nap, and she would be standing at the end of her crib. She's talking to someone. You would say other things. Like, she's about three years old at this time. I want to say two times, Brad and I are sitting in the living room. Our daughter is standing there playing with her toys. and she gets like pushed down, like shoved down.

You could physically see something pushing her, shoving her by her shoulder, and she fell down. Like she fell down hard. And Brad and I both were going, what the? What happened here? But Hunter told us that she had an imaginary friend. We, between Brad and I, we had like pretty much vowed we were never saying the name again. But I believe the name's Muriel.

and that she had red hair, fire eyes, and she told Hunter to eat the heads off of dead fish, dead bloody fish. I basically told Hunter to ignore the friend, don't listen to her, don't talk to her, this is not your friend. And there wasn't really anything after that that happened. But, yeah, Brad and I clear as day saw our daughter push down. What did you guys do? Well, I ran to my daughter because she fell down hard like I think she hit her head. And, you know, I picked her up and I'm holding her. I was pissed.

And I'm like, I don't know what just happened here, but you will not touch my daughter. You know, get out of the house. I mean, it's like you're not a stranger to odd things happening. So I was angry. So I was basically addressing what verbally what I thought was happening. How long was she talking to Mariel? I believe that maybe it had been like six months. You know, there are times when your child is playing,

you know, having a tea party talking to somebody. It wasn't until Hunter got pushed down that she told us. Muriel did it. And she's mad because you wouldn't eat the heads off of the dead fish. She was telling you to eat the heads off of dead fish and you're like, no. She tells you to do mean things. That was the other one. She tells you to do mean things.

things. We're like, oh, yeah, no. We're done with this. So, yeah. What kind of... Did you like... Did you talk to anybody else about it? No, I don't believe so. I didn't have anybody to talk to you about it. And you don't think anything has like attached itself to me after that, do you? No. No, no, absolutely not. I was unnerved at that point thinking, oh, Lord, please, please don't let my daughter see what I see and, and deal with what I, you know what I mean? It's like, it's a gift, which that's great, but what do you do with it? But, you know, I don't think anything attached to you because, I don't know how bold this sounds, I would have known. So, I would have known. And you don't. There's never been. You were to I think it was a full exercise on my ass.

Yeah. Like, uh-uh. But no. Maybe when you're a teenager, I'm like, whoa. No, yeah, that's valid. I was a bitch to you. That's valid. No, no.

It was deserving. It was. Yeah. Poor Jack. I'm like, you're going to hear all of our, oh, Hunter. Yeah. But no, I, I've never believed that. I've never thought that.

You know, you guys. Mama Bear protection. Let me tell you what. So when did all of this turn into you more officially doing this kind of spiritual warfare, for lack of a better term? Like, when did this, when did you start actually doing this stuff? I felt called to go talk to a priest because, I mean, you know, Catholic Church, powerful Catholic Church, I know that they believe this is true, that they deal with this, and then I was hoping I would get some kind of answers on what is this? Why do I see these things? Why do I am not other people?

What am I supposed to do with this? So I made an appointment and I met Monsignor Copo C-A-P-O in Marquette, first time I ever talked to a priest. So when I was there meeting with Monsignor, I was telling them, you know, the things that I saw, the things that I've dealt with in my experiences. And I said, what is this? He says, my dear girl, you have the gift of discernment. It's being able to differentiate the spirits, good and evil. You know, when you're in a somewhere you can feel something evil is present. It's discernment.

So not the only one. They're like gifts of the spirits. Some have, you know, the gift of counsel. Some have the gift of teaching. You know what I mean? So he was explaining this to me. You know, you can either ignore it or you can help people with it and help people how. You know, you've got a lot of people and Jack you've dealt with them.

That for whatever reason, they're put in situations or they're now have things in their home or things in their lives that are of a dark nature. And they have no clue what to do with this. You can't see it. It's hard to fight and battle against something. You can't see. So Hunter was still a little kid and you were beginning training of some kind with, is this the Catholic Church? Correct. Yes.

The official Catholic Church or is this some kind of like. Yes. Absolutely. The U-Burn Catholic Church. It is Roman Catholic. She did take me there. It's a legit church. You've been there?

The church. Yeah. Yeah. It's a real church. Absolutely. So what I was given was audio tapes, audio tape, because I mean, they're audio tapes at this point. They're from the Vatican. Most priests that go into being an exorcist's priests go to the Vatican.

And they're going to be trained there for, you're going to have some significant time there. I'm a laywoman. I am not, you know, I'm not a minister that's not possible in the Catholic Church. So it's called like a lay person. And because of what I see and have experienced a know to be true, I was allowed to have access to these audio tapes that are helping you understand the discernment of spirits. These audio tapes, which is terrifying. Because you're hearing real.

Yeah, they were like exorcisms? You're hearing. recordings of things that have been recorded in cases. Do you still have these tapes? No, I was allowed to borrow them. I did not join the Catholic Church at that time. I joined another church. And I was a non-denominational church.

There was, you know, the women's group, you've got these intercessory prayer groups or groups that pray for people. I became the secretary. And so the pastor, I worked with him every day. We got to know each other very well. We were friends, family. And, you know, you're sharing things with him about things you see.

There are things in church I saw. And so on that note, there would be people that would come to him that have things happening in their house that is terrifying them. So he asked me if I would be willing to help. And I said, yeah. This non-denominational church, I don't want to derail this too hard, but I have been made aware that there were other incidents that occurred at this church. Is this the same church that I'm thinking of? Yeah, this is the same church. Yes, it is.

Yeah. So I worked there for seven years, very, very close with the pastor. As a secretary of this church, I had to present to the church, you know, the final. financials, what we're taking in, what's going out. And what happened was a day on a Sunday morning, and I'm presenting to the church, the fact that our pastor, we're paying out like $3,500 a month for his health insurance and his wife is a dental hygienist. So she's able to have insurance through her work.

But the church was paying for his and his wife and his two. grown boys who are in their 20s. This is a very small church. Again, because I was a secretary, I had to present this to the church. When I did this, it angered the pastor's wife, and it angered him. And the next thing I know is the women's group led by the pastor's wife are accusing me of embezzling. They said that I got paid more than what they authorized, even though I had it in writing. I got paid $10 an hour, and they said that I was authorized for $9 an hour. It literally is in writing that I got a raise. But it's a pastor of a church who's saying, nope, that's not correct.

At that point, I mean, I left the church, and I need to be clear, three quarters of the church left with me. They were left with maybe, you know, 25 members. Was this a hundred person congregation? Pretty much, yeah. It was small, yeah. Very small. It changed over the years, whatever. If there are a group of people that wanted to be traditional, that's what the pastor would do.

If there are a group of people that wanted to, you know, wave flags and speak in tongues and bring snakes in, that's what the pastor would do because what he wanted was money. You know, they charged me with embezzlement. It's me going up against a pastor of a church. and my attorney was very clear that I needed to plead guilty. I was very adamant that I did not want to do that because I was not guilty. And he was clear with me that if you don't plead guilty, it'll go to trial and nobody's going to believe you. It's you against a pastor and they're not going to believe you. So plead guilty and you won't go to jail.

It's a horrible, a horrible situation to be in because, I mean, this is your family. I trusted the pastor and to have them turn like that because the pastor wanted more money. You don't get past that. It's a horrible thing. But, you know, there was 13 people from the church that stuck with this pastor and his wife. It came out after the fact about a year later that the pastor had lied. And, you know, the damage is already done. You know, so it's, it's on my record and, you know, you have to live with this.

But it's a horrible thing that I don't, I don't talk about. So you're saying that, like, he was the real embezzler? No, I didn't bezzle. He was a liar. What I've learned through this is that some of the most horrible and worst people you can ever come across or deal with in your life, hide under the guise of being a Christian when in fact, you know, it's a devil in sheep's clothing. So, yeah, they got rid of me and they sold the church and he got his money. They gave it all to him.

So he won, you know what I mean? He got what he wanted and he was going to do anything he could to get it. And the money that I had to pay went to him. It didn't. So you tell me who the thief is. You know. How are you impacted by that, Hunter? I mean, this happened when I was away in college.

So this is the reason I'm not a Christian. Like this whole situation, like either my mom is a good Christian woman and stole from a church or the entire congregation turned against someone in their own community and, you know, like put them on trial for something. something they didn't do. Either way, that is so fucked. I should say, not the whole entire congregation. Yeah, but you know what I mean? Like, the whole church dissolved after this. It definitely turned you away from the church. Yeah. 100%. I lost all faith in a congregation, I guess. Like, this is just, I want no part of this. I think it's so hypocritical. And since then, I haven't, I have. I have.

have not experimented with spirituality at all. I've just kind of left it. So for legal reasons here, I probably do need to say that the opinions of Hunter's mom are, of course, her own. I have no way of knowing what actually went down at that church, nor am I really trying to spend any more time trying to figure that out. I think more than anything, I'm interested in how the situation impacted Hunter. and I think that's true with pretty much everything in this story. So for now, I think I'm going to put the embezzlement scandal to the side and get back to the main story. Sorry, I had to derail us a little bit there, but before that conversation, I think you were starting to explain that you were receiving training from the Catholic Church and you had joined this new church before the embezzlement situation happened.

and you were starting to help out people at church and around town and things like that, people that you knew who had issues that you might be able to help with. Can you continue on and tell us some more about that? So the pastor, I worked with him, we got to know each other. There would be people that would come to him that have things happening in their house that is terrifying them. So he asked me if I would be willing to help. And I said, yeah. So even though I was at this non-denominational church, I would go to the Catholic Church and I'm praying and you're doing the sign of the cross with the holy water for protection because I believe you're on you're on hallowed

ground. You're on holy ground. So I'm able to go into some place and if there's something dark, I'll see it and I will hear it. I've been called every name in the book. So I'll just take one case in particular. It was a woman with a son. Yeah, this is, this is Kathy, yeah. So as a kid, all I knew was like, I mean, Kaylee and I were in middle school, right? And I knew of her aunt and, like, Kaylee would tell me that her cousin was having, like, night terrors or, oh, yeah, Kathy thinks her house.

was haunted. And like, Kaylee and I were in middle school, right? It's like, oh, ha ha, like, that's crazy. I want to go to the haunted house. But that's all the context that I had. And then I knew that, like, Kaylee told me that you were at Kathy's house. And I didn't know anything beyond that at the time, but you just recently filled me in on it. Yeah. So no, well, did I, did do I show that with you, Jack? I don't know anything. So just start for from the beginning. So, Kathy had told me that she felt like there was something dark in her house that her son was having night terrors. Then he would wake up and he would feel that somebody was sitting on him and holding him down to the bed. So I went to Kathy's and her son was there.

And I asked her and her son to step out of the house that I was going to go in and walk through the home and see if I felt anything. I started in the living room and, I mean, there really wasn't anything odd. I went into her son's room and you could tell that there was just something kind of unnerving, you know, about like the closet and the closet doors were open, but I wasn't seeing anything. So when you go into her house, there's a little hallway and then there's a step that goes into the basement. And I'm like, crap. Basements and addicts. I hate them. That's where they're like to hide. So I had Kathy come in. Her son was outside. And I told her that I needed to go into the

basement and that I needed her to turn out the lights and close the door. And she thought I was mad. Absolutely insane. What are you doing? I said, well, I have to see what's down here. So I went down the steps and into the basement. She turned off the light. She closed the door. The minute she did that, I was in the middle of the room, and it is pitch black. I can't see anything. It was about five, ten minutes in the basement, and I'm hearing movement. I felt like I was being, something came out. It felt like something was right in front of me. And from behind me, something like pulled my hair. I was being touched on my shoulders. So it's kind of like you're led I'd want to do.

So I went down on one knee and I actually started saying the Lord's prayer out loud. I would say binding prayers to protect the family. When I was down on my knee and I'm praying, my head is down. And I know that there had to have been at least six literally hovering over me. So if I wanted to stand up, I would have like hit them going up. They were not talking, but at the same time, as I'm saying the prayer, I heard look up. I looked up and there are hundreds of little white orbs that are lighting up the basement. This is just crazy.

Just the context of this in my childhood is just like so baffling to me. Like Kaylee and I are having a sleepover. And Kaylee's like mentioning to me. that you were at her aunt's house. And I'm like, oh, that's, why is my mom hanging out with your aunt? Like, you weren't friends, not saying that you were enemies. No. You guys didn't hang out.

Yeah, we really weren't. No. And I didn't know, like, how that connection was made. I didn't know why you were at her house. And I think I tried to ask you. Or maybe it was like, yeah, were you at Kathy's house? And you were so vague. And just like the fact that you were like doing this at her house is like,

crazy to wrap my mind around now as an adult because just thinking back to things that happened in a different light now. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. Because as you're growing up, my first priority above all was protecting my children. So after Kathy's, I would go any house. I would go back to St. Peter's Cathedral and you're in prayer and you're doing the sign of the cross with Holy Water to leave whatever may be with me there. I didn't want you to ever have to experience any of this. And I didn't want to scare you. And I don't know how you tell like a nine-year-old,

well, a mommy just went into a basement and pitch black. See if there are demons there. You know, I mean, what is a kid going on? Okay, but to be fair, you told me goes for real. Do you want the truth? She didn't tell you they were real, Hunter. Literally. She lied to you that they weren't real, right?

And then that gave me the answer that haunted me forever. It's just crazy, like sitting here and hearing, you know, this whole other side of a story that I have. Just like a drop in the bucket, right? Of like, yeah, I remember being at Kaylee's house. And she's like, yeah, your mom went to Kathy's house. I'm like, oh, why? That's weird. But like also I remember like driving with you too and we had to stop.

You were like, I don't remember where we were going. But you were like, yeah, we need to make a stop at this house. And it was just this huge mansion. Yeah. And the lady came out, opened the door and she was like sobbing. Like what happened there? So the surgeon, the heart surgeon. She like gave you something.

She opened the door and she was sobbing. So like what happened in that moment? Sometimes in homes there are things that you. can tell right away that it's bad get it out of your house i think she gave me a charm that she had picked up somewhere and it's got to go stop wearing this and she gave it to me hunter knows that there's a vault um there are things i heard about the vault yes tell him about the vault yeah there are things that um are very bad that come out of houses and they go in the vault you don't want to where is the vault the vault is now um

where it's supposed to be actually. It's in the hands of, well, it is in the hands of a father Rob. So Father Rob is. So it's not in Bob's backyard anymore. Nope. It is not. It was in somebody's backyard. That was pretty funny, though.

It was in. So the house that I told you about. What is the vault made of? The vault is basically a trunk with a lock. usually what happens with the vault is it's going to get buried in a cemetery, believe it or not, in a Catholic cemetery. Or, you know, it's like you don't burn it. If you're burning something, you're letting it free. But actually, everything in the vault was burned about two months ago.

Wait, so you set it free? No, it's not actually set free. You break things up, put them in a river and water. Water is cleansing. So some of the things, because they were charms, they were broken. up, crushed, and put in a river so that they cannot be put back together. It depends on what it is. So the house that I told you about. We have to just, it's too funny, mom. Like, you buried the vault in Bob's backyard.

Who's Bob? I didn't bury it. It was in his bag shed because there's anywhere. It was in the shed. Because it's in my care. Let me put it that way. The vault is in my care. I have to guard this. I have to take care of this. You don't want this in your home. You want it somewhere that's not in your house. So it was in a shed because it's the only place I could put it. I vividly remember visiting you when you were still living at Bob's house.

Bob is your ex. And we were like talking and you were like kind of plotting, scheming, whatever. No, you were like kind of telling me that you were trying to move out of his place. And when you eventually did. move out, you were like, well, I left something at his house because I didn't want to take it with me to my new place. That's right. And you left.

I wasn't taking that with me. This vault of haunted shit at your ex's house. Yep. And I, that's so funny. That is very funny. Yeah. Contacts I had at the time. I figured it could stay there.

It's whatever. I could, yeah. Have Adam was really how I felt at that thing. So, yeah. But the house that... So you left it in your ex-boyfriend's shit for a long period of time, so I'm gathering. Yeah, so he could deal with it. Hey, you know what?

Yep, absolutely. As long as the vault's safe. I do want to ask about a man that was living in the home for a period of time. No, he was not living in the home. He was staying there. I hate talking about this guy because this is, you want to talk about bringing something with you. Yeah. And what could happen?

So. Okay, but so this is David we're talking about. Yeah. From my memory, like, this is just what I told Jack. Like, my memory at the time, I didn't know you were doing any of this stuff, right? Right. Like, you had no clue. No, the only context I had was I came home to visit you from college.

I was like a freshman or a sophomore in college. I came home to visit and like there's just this guy visiting. And you told me that you guys were doing research. Like I didn't know what was going on. I thought you guys were, I thought you were dating. Like I thought that was your boyfriend. I mean, you weren't dating him? You weren't dating?

No. No. No, I was not dating this guy. I reached out to him. He is a very renowned demonologist. So I had reached out to him for information. And so that's where that started. And I had some cases here in the UP that I was kind of stumped on.

So I asked him for help and he decided that, he would come here. There was some good that came out of it. It ended up that my best friend ended up having something in her, I get like emotional, something in her house that was so bad. You could make a horror movie out of it. So I needed, I asked David for help because nobody knew what to do.

And I prayed that David could help. And he did. But that's how that started. So he would come for like a week and help me clean a house. But we're literally fighting demons. And like I'm just coming home and being like, I'm just home from college and like visiting. Like who's this dude. Yeah.

You're out fighting demons with this guy. I should say investigating. we're investigating is what it is. But at the same time, so he's on a different level where he will go in and try to get the easiest terms, try to get the demon to go. So, you know, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But when you're doing this for 10 years,

shit can go really, really bad. And he's probably one of the most evil people I've ever met. to my brother. So he had stuff get to him. He had things with him and some very, very bad things. And very, very bad things happened and came into my home because of him. In the trailer? Yeah. Yeah. And when you say he's evil, like you say he's only, so evil he was yeah like he wasn't getting rid of them he was carrying them with him kind of yes absolutely attached to him i mean were there things happening like i'm shaking right now because i yeah yeah and honestly i mean i'm just going to say seven years i had not heard from him seven years and the day hunter

messages me about talking to you, three in the morning, I get a text from David. Hey, he got into everything in my personal life because I wasn't with him. So, I mean, Hunter's memories of him was just like this guy eating chips on the couch most of the time. Yeah. And like he bought, Mom, he brought me

the best presents, though. He bought me Breaking Bad. He brought her, your brother, a sword. A Spartan helmet and sword. A helmet, too? Yeah. Oh, man, yeah, you should see that thing. It was beautiful. Yeah. I mean, like, movie set, Spartan helmet and... No, I actually sold it. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Oh. Yeah. Yeah. I was tormented, tormented by this. guy. And you guys were not dating. Yeah. Did he want to date you? Yes. Okay. All right, we have to take a break, but we'll be right back with the rest of the episode. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and it's a powerful reminder that whatever you're going through right now, you don't have to navigate it alone.

We all have those nights where we're lying awake, staring at the ceiling, feeling like we have to figure out every answer by ourselves, but no journey should be seen. solo. Having someone with you to listen and provide unbiased support can change everything. If you've been feeling overwhelmed or just stuck lately, therapy can be that space to check in with yourself. BetterHelp makes getting started easy. They use a short questionnaire to match you with one of their 30,000-plus licensed therapists, and you could switch therapists at any time if it isn't the right fit. You don't have to do this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com slash otherworld.

That's betterhelp.com slash otherworld. He is a narcissistic sociopath, not using those terms lightly. Yeah, 100%. He is a danger. Although he helped my friend Lisa. He, I, who, yeah. I mean, takes a thief, right? Well, you can't, you know, beat the devil with the devil, but I don't know, there's just so much with this guy that, yes, yeah.

Well, bad, bad stuff. Hunter, that's... Yeah, I literally just thought he was like a weird boyfriend. I thought that was going to be a much funnier conversation to be completely honest with you. This demonologist living in the trailer, eating your chips. Oh, there's some humor. Yeah. Yeah. I thought this was a secret boyfriend.

Yeah. The whole time. I thought that was the big thing you were hiding. It's not demons. You know? No. No. I did find it interesting that you guys were chuckling over the vault, though, because, I mean, to me, honestly, you know, you have, like, the biggest demonologist, this Ed and Lorraine Warren.

They give tours and charge admission to their vault, you know. So you should have been. Yeah, so. Well, yeah. Yeah, you could charge to go into your ex-boyfriend's shed if it's still there. Well, it's actually, and I've been to his house. Believe me, there's a lot of stuff there that his house is, the whole house is bad. Well, that's the next thing I actually wanted to talk to you about.

So you sent me a recording that you made in your ex-boyfriend Bob's house. and I've listened to it, and it's pretty weird, I will say. I wasn't sure what to expect, but I've heard it. What's the backstory of this recording? I'll eventually play it. What led up to this being recorded? What's the deal with his house? Everything.

My ex-boyfriend who actually, over the years now, we've become, like, best friends. So I still go to this house. But I started dating. You know, we got to the point where he invited me over for dinner at his house. I went in and he gave me a tour of the house and it's just your normal house. It was pretty cluttered. Everything was fine until we got to the stairway going upstairs, which is like a loft or an attic space, but it's carpeted and finished off.

And I just had the feeling I did not want to go up these stairs. We did end up going upstairs. And when you go out there, there's a window on one end. It's kind of like 40 feet long by about 30 feet wide. And one end has a window. The other end does not. And there's just one light in the ceiling. And you have these two cubby holes on each side of the adductor loft area.

And when you get over in that area, I felt like I was being watched. I felt threatened. You got like a heavy feeling on my chest, a little lightheaded, kind of dizzy. just a very uncomfortable feeling and I just felt like, okay, I've seen the upstairs and I wanted to go downstairs. I didn't want to be upstairs anymore. And so we went downstairs. You know, after we ate dinner, we were sitting on the couch and I asked him, you know, can I ask you a question about your house? And he said, sure. And I said, this might sound weird, but what happened upstairs? I mean, I just get this horrible feeling when we went up there and his eyes got really wide, kind of surprised that I

I asked that, but he then told me the story. He said he built the house. It was about 20 years ago and moved in actually on Halloween with his mother. And at the time, he had a new girlfriend, and the girlfriend had a 13-year-old daughter. All three of them moved into this house. He said, things seemed fine until one day shortly after moving in, he came home early from work and just had this feeling that he needed to go up. stairs because that's where the 13-year-old daughter her bedroom was. He heard voices as he was

going up the stairs. And when he got to the top of the stairs, he turned and in the area where the cubby holes are, there she was sitting on the floor. And she was chanting. She had black candles burning. She had red like string placed in a pentagram on the floor and was performing some kind of ritual, some kind of ceremony. He was honest in saying that he was furious when he saw this. He told her, you know, to stop. I don't know what you're doing. The girl was very adamant that she was going to continue, whether he liked it or not.

And he was very adamant that this is going to stop right now. So he told her to take everything off the floor. And she did it. So the girlfriend comes home and, you know, this is in the evening. and he has the discussion with her of, you know, I don't know what this is. The girlfriend explains to him that they are witches and that it's very important to them that they're going to continue doing this. He tells them that it's either him or them, either him or, you know, practicing the witchcraft.

And the night past morning came and the girlfriend and the daughter were gone. They chose the witchcraft. They moved out that bad. It's kind of funny. It's mere the witchcraft, and she's like, okay, the witchcraft. Yeah. Witchcraft it is. Yeah.

And then she flies away on a broomstick. I wouldn't be surprised. So, you know what I mean? They did leave, but they did. The daughter brought something in, and they definitely left it behind. Were things happening in his house after that? Yes. What kind of stuff?

Yes. So absolutely. You would hear thumping upstairs. You'd hear banging in the cubby holes. I'm scratching. I actually would hear voices, you know, swearing, which is fun. The lights would flicker on and off. I would put something like there's a table upstairs. I'm an artist. I work with miniatures. I would put simple things like a glass of water on one side of the table. walk downstairs, you know, to use the restroom, go back upstairs, and that cup is in another place completely. So there were times when I would be working upstairs and I would feel something pulling my hair or just like a slight breath on my cheek or on my neck. When it comes to nighttime, I did not want to be there by myself without the lights on. My son was moving. in and he wanted to have his bedroom upstairs. So naturally I was very concerned about this. I decided to bring in a Catholic priest to perform a house blessing. Before the priest came,

I set up a recorder like a dictation recorder and I set a blessing over the recorder to keep anything from interfering or manipulating the equipment, basically asking, you know, God to bless it and hopefully capture something that would kind of prove, I guess, that there's something up there and I'm not just imagining it. So I put it upstairs in the area that I felt almost threatened on a dresser that was in between the two cubby holes. You know, even doing the prayer over the recording or setting this up, it's just this very threatening feeling. Threatening meaning you want to get out of there as soon as possible. You feel like something really bad is going to happen. Like you're being closed in on. It's a horrible feeling. It's hard to put it into words. But it

about an hour before the priest was supposed to arrive. So that's when I turned the recording on. And I left it and I went downstairs. And, you know, I came up, I want to say about maybe 10 minutes later to see if it was still recording. And at that time, even, you could hear like a thud, like light bangs scratching. So, I mean, I'm hearing this. So I'm thinking the recorder definitely. has to capture this. I kind of was feeling lightheaded and faint again. About 45 minutes before the priest came, I started feeling really sick to my stomach and ended up actually vomiting in the bathroom. It was about 35 minutes before the priest came,

and I just had this overwhelming feeling that I had to go upstairs. I don't know why, but it felt. an immense pull to go upstairs, and it was, like, incredibly strong. I did go upstairs, and went on my knees, and I started saying the Lord's Prayer out loud. So my boyfriend was aware of what was going on, that I did have a recording going on upstairs. He actually came up with me and was doing the Lord's prayer as well, like, out loud. My heart was racing, very sweaty and dizzy, but I kept praying. There's a point that I stopped because I believe Bob had gone downstairs and he said that, you know, the priest had arrived. So what I heard about 10 minutes before the priest arrived was quick hide, he's coming, you know, which was kind of unusual.

I'm guessing whatever it was was talking about the priest arriving. At that point, the priest arrived. I went downstairs and, you know, greeted him. And he went through the house from the basement, each bedroom, and then last was upstairs. So when we were going up the stairs, he got flushed, like sweaty too, almost was having trouble speaking, the prayers. And there was a moment where he, he was. He felt he needed to sit down because he was feeling dizzy. But it was a different feeling when the priest was up there.

It was like this quiet but not calm, not a comfort at all. It was like an unnerving way. So after the priest in the house blessing me left, I went upstairs. It turned off the recording. And honestly, I didn't really think about it. I just kind of put it aside and it wasn't until about a month later that I'm like, oh yeah, I should probably listen to this. And I could hear the scratching and the thumps that were recorded.

I thought I heard at the time was a come to me in a very deep voice that really wasn't a man's voice. It wasn't natural. It's so very personal that you're hearing something being recorded. that is calling you by name. Let me ask you this. Would you be willing to listen to this with me? Like a clip of it? Sure.

Yeah. I've heard it. I won't forget it. I'm sweating. I don't want to hear this again. I know. I know. It's surprising.

But yeah, don't be scared. I'm scared. I'm skewed. But it does show you that, you know, it's real. Yeah, this is real. This is fucked with my head. It really did. So Hunter's mom had this voice recorder in her now infamous vault.

We had her ship it to us overnight so that we could check it out. The recording is about an hour long, and Noelle said that Un's recording, she heard scratching sounds, grunts, unexplained whispers, and even a voice that said a few different things, including her name, and come to me. I'll play a sample of this recording. That being said, I will say, we check this out, and there is indeed some weird stuff on it. For most of the recording, there is nobody in the room with the recorder. But then again, I, of course, was not there for the recording, so I have no way of knowing.

But the sounds are very spooky. So I'm going to play a clip of this. I'll let you listen for yourself. I hate that, yeah. Was it... Was the recorder just sitting there? Was anybody touching it? Like, what was...

No. Not at all. Were there people in the room? No. No. Nobody. So this is like before you and Bob go up there to pray, right? Yes.

Hate it. Let the record show you let me sleep in that room before I knew anything. I did. Do you think you got rid of whatever was in Bob's house? No. It did not go. It was the next day. I went back upstairs and it wasn't gone.

It wasn't gone. If anything, you just kind of got the feeling that it was hiding. And I actually moved out and it had been about a year and I had gone back to visit my, you know, at this point, ex-boyfriend and the house was worse. I didn't, I didn't even want to go upstairs. So at this point, I kind of felt responsible to ask for help from the priest that came prior. I told the priest about the recording and he scheduled a time to come out to the house. So it's kind of like round two. This priest came in.

There's a good half hour of prayer in English and then in Latin for protection. over us before we even go forward. Like this is, I guess, an exorcism, you know, on a house. He also, instead of a little bottle of holy water, he had like a huge spray bottle full of holy water. He's spraying it everywhere. You know, you're doing the sign of the cross above every window, every doorway, and spraying each room with holy water.

And he is doing very specific prayers. that go back. Thousand-plus years, I don't even know how far. He was sweating. He said he was feeling dizzy too. He said there is absolutely, definitely a presence up here, an evil, a demonic presence. He was there probably another, about an hour. And I asked him, okay, so what if I go upstairs and I still feel this?

You know, what do we do? The priest said that we will do this again. We'll do the process one more time. If it does not go the second time, then what is going to happen is he will literally hold Mass, Catholic Mass, upstairs in that room. And that'll be the end of that. So we're going into round two. The priest actually went on a mission work, so he's been gone for a few months. When he gets back, we will be scheduling for the second.

attempt. So this isn't over. Oh, so we're up to present day all of a sudden. Yeah. Yes, we are at present day right now. We're just waiting for the priest to schedule with me for round two, basically. Maybe he'll let me take a recording for you, Jack. Yeah, please. Maybe I'll give you a better, I'll send you a higher quality recorder as a gift. How about that? Very good. Very good. I will ask if that's okay. I will say I will do it because I would be very yeah talk about provoking something wow

there's so much going on but I guess with all this I kind of feel bad for Bob I mean I feel like there's a lot of women women not only leaving him but then leaving leaving something with him leaving bad things behind these you got the witches

possibly left some kind of hex on that house, which deserved, perhaps, I'm not sure. Quite possibly him. Hey, I'm not Bob's biggest fan, if we're being honest. You left the vault. Yeah, you left a whole vault of haunted shit at his house. I don't think he deserves a demon and a vault, but he wasn't the nicest person.

Okay. My last question was going to be like, are you still doing this now? But I guess I know the answer to that. You're scheduling another exorcism at Bob's house. She's booked and busy. You are. I'm booked. I got things to do.

In the meantime, I am out there, though, and, you know, it's just, I think first and foremost, when you're dealing with something like this, it sounds crazy. Ignore it. Ignore it. Because if you give it any show of fear, it's just going to feed on it. So it's like, you have to act normal. You have to act like it's not there. you ignore the flickering lights, you ignore the footsteps, you ignore the thuds and the bangs and the growling, and carry on as if it, if it's nothing. So we carry on and we wait until the next round two.

And if you're interested, we can talk and let you know what happened. But I have a feeling we're going to be going to round three where he actually has to hold mass upstairs. So, I mean, this thing just won't go. WW Smackdown, demons. Thank you so much for talking to us. How is it Ben Hunter hearing all of this? Is this illuminating for you? Yeah, it's been crazy.

It's been crazy. Do you think this has been helpful or harmful to your relationship with your mysterious mother? I mean, definitely helpful. Mysterious mother. Yeah, definitely helpful. I think it's opened up a whole realm. of communication that we didn't have before and it's kind of funny in a way that like the reason I feel so close to my mom right now and like genuinely I and I've told you this mom like

I honestly never felt closer to you in my life and I think that's amazing I agree but it's so funny that it's the reason is because like we're talking about demons and shit yeah but yeah it's been it's been so nice it's also comforting in a weird way to have some clarity on stuff that happened in my childhood too. Like these things I had questions about now all make sense. Yeah. Absolutely. I agree too. I mean, it's wild. Like I said, you know, for whatever reason, there is good that came out of it. And I couldn't be happier. I know there's a lot more stories to share with my daughter. She's like ready to hear. But I'm glad to share and it's kind of in a way interesting to share this story because I never really have and never thought about ever sharing it.

So, you know, for my daughter, absolutely whatever, anything she needs she's got. So I love you, Hunter. I love you too much. Otherwise, I would not be doing this. But yeah, thanks, Jack, for letting us share this. I hope this doesn't terrify you and keep you awake at nights. We'll see. I know who to call if things go awry.

David. I'm referring to David. Oh, that's cool. Okay, thank you so much to Hunter and, of course, her mom, Noel, for speaking to me and sharing their stories. To me, Otherworld is a show about people more so than it is a show about the paranormal. And I think this story is a perfect example of how the paranormal can affect an average person's life in very, unconventional ways. I think this was a strange topic for Hunter and her mom to broach. And I think that's probably a major reason why she wrote into me about it in the first place. I think Hunter is still kind of processing all of her mom's stories, beliefs, and adventures.

I don't blame her. But I think it's a major step forward that they finally talked about all this stuff in the first place. You know, sometimes as you get older, it becomes difficult to find things to even talk about with your parents. The weather, sports, and updates about your cousins can really only take you so far. I think, at the very least, no matter what Hunter thinks of all this stuff, her and her mom definitely have something to talk about now, for better or for worse. This has been episode 98.

The title is Discernment Part 2, and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice Jackal. This episode was edited by myself and engineered by Theo Schaefer. Our artwork is by Coldassack Studios.

Nikki Kate Delgado is our associate producer, production help by Haley Pearson. Please show us your support by subscribing leaving a five-star review and telling your friends about Otherworld. If you want to hear bonus episodes, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash Otherworld. Our social media is at Otherworld Pod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey,

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