Otherworld - Episode 99: The Pump House

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

Emma hears from her friend Michael that he had an extremely unsettling experience at a local historical building called The Pumphouse. After finding out her friend and coworker has psychic abilities, she takes her to that same location to see if she will pick up on the same spirit that showed itself to Michael. Check out our Merch Follow us on: Instagram, TikTok, Twitter For business inquiries contact: [e-mail] If you have experienced something paranormal or unexplained, email us your story at [e-mail] To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This episode originally came from a woman named Emma, who is sort of the connective tissue of this very interesting story. This all starts when Emma is working at a theater and meets somebody named Annie. Annie had just moved to town, and eventually Annie reveals to Emma that she's a sort of amateur medium. She doesn't do it professionally, but she says that she has these abilities. And upon hearing this, Emma is initially probably a little skeptical, but mostly finds it interesting and really just doesn't know what to make of it. She's never met somebody who says they have powers of mediumship. Later on, Emma runs into an old friend named Michael,

who shares a recent paranormal experience that he had at an old municipal. water building in Richmond, Virginia, called the Pump House. I'm going to explain this place because it's important. The Pump House is an old Gothic Victorian structure built in 1881 that is home to a beautiful public park along the river where people go to hike, picnic, take historical tours, I think people have even had weddings there, stuff like that. Back in the day, the pump house used to pump water

from the James River and local reservoirs into the town of Richmond. Today, it's a historical landmark and a place people go to visit. I think it's worth pointing out that this isn't some kind of abandoned, terrifying ghost hunting destination. It's, I believe, a beloved and beautiful landmark in the local town. It's a bright and pleasant spot. Anyway, Michael has a paranormal experience at the pump house. Emma is told about this and is interested in testing Annie's support. supposed medium abilities.

Emma takes Annie, who has no knowledge of Michael's experience or the pump house, to see what she's able to pick up. I'm going to let Emma explain the rest of this herself. This is episode 99. The title is The Pump House, and you're listening to Otherworld. Is this Bobby? At its core, the science, you can't argue. I'm not worried about...

It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm literally going to die. I'm going to die. If limbs were just like wrong. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them in a minute. My name is Emma. I grew up in the Midwest in Iowa,

but I've lived in Richmond, Virginia for the past six or seven years, I believe. I went to school here and I wound up really falling in love with Richmond as a city, so I work as a videographer for a public school system, so I'm on their communications team, but I kind of have a film art background. Yeah, I guess my relationship with the paranormal

has always been highly interested. I always loved hearing ghost stories growing up and things like that. A story I remember as a kid is my mom telling me that my great-grandmother, Emma, who I never met, but she's my namesake, that her last words were, so beautiful. I guess that kind of represents a door that was open for me as a kid in terms of

just feeling open to any possibility. I guess I've always been really interested. I think that my world was a lot more opened up to it after moving to Richmond and being in college and meeting a lot more people who had a lot more stories. But I had never personally had an experience. So, Yeah, like 2021, I got a job at the Bird Theater, which is an old palace movie theater in Richmond that has been around since 1928, is when I was built. And that's where I met Annie. She was new in town, and I met her this night that there was a themed private screening there.

I was wearing like a Dracula cape, I think, because it was, they invited everyone to dress up. I would say we became pretty close. pretty fast. Even just the first night working there, we were already cracking jokes to each other. We connected pretty well pretty quickly. And it wasn't until, I think, a few weeks later that she told me about what she's capable of and her abilities as a medium. The night that Annie had told me about her abilities, we were getting drinks at this place called New York Deli that was a couple doors down from the theater that we worked at. And I think we were kind of leaving, and Annie came up to me,

and she was really like, she was really energized about something. Like, she was really, she looked really happy and really excited and stuff like that. And she came up to me, and she was like, so there's something I really, really want to tell you because something really crazy just happened, But I'm afraid you're going to think I'm crazy, but I really want to tell you what it is. And I'm just really excited right now, and I don't know what to do with myself.

And I was like, it's like literally what, what is it? Like, I lend you my trust. I'm just so curious. She basically said, I am a medium and I see dead people. And I just had this experience where this guy's wife just walked up to me. and wanted me to deliver a message for him, like here at this bar. And so I heard that, and I guess it kind of like hit me a little bit, like, in a crazy way where I was like, whoa, like, not what I was expecting you to say at all. But I am extremely interested.

I'd never met, knowingly, never met a medium before or anything like that. it was a little bit of like, okay, my guard is up a little bit, just because let's just take one thing at a time and kind of like, like trust this person, but also not throw so much into it where I realize later, like, maybe this person isn't completely being honest with me or something. And I didn't know what to make of it, really, I guess. It was something like sort of like hit the water and then I was sort of like,

like, rippling into like, whoa, what just happened, you know, that sort of a thing. I think I just said something along the lines of, okay, I believe you, because I really wanted to believe her. Sometime after, you know, meeting Annie at the Bird and everything, I was just at this park called Scuffle Town Park. It's actually really close to where I live now. It's just a very small park. A lot of people go there just to kind of run into people they know and hang out.

And I actually ran into this guy named Michael. Michael is someone that I just always kind of knew. We went to the same college in Richmond, and so he was someone that I would see around campus. I remember seeing him always walking around with, like, this leather satchel full of loose papers, and like, I don't know, that image just stuck out in my mind. He's a very interesting person.

has a very specific sense of humor. He's a musician. And, yeah, I don't know. He's just a one-of-a-kind person that I feel like there's not too many people like him. So, yeah, one day I was just at this park and I ran into Michael there. We just started talking as we normally would,

and I think we sat down with each other for a while and had a conversation. We started talking about the paranormal, and I had asked him, if he had any experiences with that. And he did tell me a couple of stories that were more mild experiences, but his tone kind of shifted at a point,

and he sort of said, like, you know, it's interesting you ask me that, though, because I recently had an extremely disturbing experience an encounter with the paranormal. And I wanted to ask him about it, but I also could tell him, that honestly he was visibly disturbed and seemed pretty uncomfortable to talk about it. And so I hesitated to pry, but I was obviously very curious.

Basically, the story went that he was going to this place called the Pump House in Richmond with a friend at the time named Taylor. and he described that upon walking up to this area, he was just overcome with this sense of dread. And there was just this darkness that was like emanating from either the building or the area. And I think he kind of brushed it off and felt on edge, but was going to just continue with their walk or whatever. they were there to do.

And so him and Taylor start walking along this nature path that goes by this building. And at that point, he said he started to see shadows in the trees. I do remember that he said it was broad daylight, which kind of makes that more creepy. But at that point, he was so freaked out and needed to leave. And so he told Taylor that and they start walking back up the hill towards this road that goes by the building. He said that as they were walking back, there was a moment where he felt like he needed to look behind him, like he needed to turn his head over his shoulder and just see whatever

was behind him. And he did that. And he said that there was a woman standing there between the water and where he was. He said that she was wearing a dress and had like. like stringy long hair, and he said that she was wet, visibly wet. And she was just looking at him. From what I remember, he didn't say that it was a transparent image

or anything like that. He said that it looked like just a fully formed person standing there, which honestly is kind of wild, because it's just such a loud image of horror that I guess I didn't know what to make of it at first. I was just kind of shocked and didn't know what to say other than, like, oh my God, I'm so sorry that this happened to you because that sounds extremely disturbing. So my name's Michael White.

I'm 26. This one specific time that this happened, I was with a friend. She was walking with me. We went down to the pump house. There's like these like wooden railings that go down to it right next to the actual pump house. And as I was getting closer, I was just getting like so scared. And I didn't know why. My friend was like we just, you know, we should just not like walk here.

We should just go back. So we left and walked up to this, this park that's right next to it. and I was up the hill from the pump house. I, like, looked over from the forest. I saw this, like, this girl, like, had long, like, black hair and looked like she was drenched in water and was looking, like, at me. Like, she needed something from me. She needed help. You know, it was clear that she had come up and almost, like, followed me.

back from the pump house up and walk through the forest and come there and like looking for me or something or just looking for someone. I saw that and I've never had an experience that was so like clear. I wasn't tired or like I wasn't drinking or anything. I knew it wasn't something I could have just made up in my in my head or anything. It was I know what I, what I, what I, saw and stuff. He told me that story and honestly my first thought in that moment was

I can't wait to tell Annie this because we were always talking about ghosts and dead people and like you know just everything paranormal and so that was honestly my thought but the crazy part is that it completely slipped under my radar I don't know if I was just so busy

that I just forgot about it or what happened but I just completely forgot to tell her that until we ran into Michael together at a bar called Bamboo Cafe that's right by the theater. We used to go there all the time and Michael was there. And so as usual, I said hi to him. And I think that he talked to me and Annie for just a hot second. And, you know, it was like a very brief conversation. I don't really think we talked about much. And then he left and Annie asked me in that moment, like, who that person was because she had never seen him before, didn't know his name, didn't know anything about him. And that kind of like

triggered the memory, like the story that he had told me. And I was like, oh my God, Annie, I have, I just remembered I have like the craziest story to tell you. So I asked her like, do you, like, do you want to, do you want to hear it? It has to do with that guy that we just ran into, that guy named Michael. And she, you know, she was really enthusiastic. I was like, I mean, yeah, sure, like, tell me. And so I started. telling her the story, but I only get so far into the story as to say that Michael walked up to the pump house and had it like a feeling of dread and this darkness. And then all of a sudden she stops me and goes like, wait, stop talking. She was like, don't tell me anything else.

We should just go there right now. And we can see what I get. from that place. Because I think she wanted to test herself. She was always talking about wanting to become a better medium and become more skilled at honing her abilities. And I think part of that for her was intentionally not doing research on a place or a place's history or the supposed ghost stories that had to do with a particular place or person or thing.

And so she was really enthusiastic about not wanting to know anything so that if she had the opportunity to go someplace and read, then like she could later on see what was accurate and what wasn't accurate and things like that. My feeling was a combination of excitement and also honestly a pretty intense nervousness just because, I knew what I knew and I knew what Michael had told me. And I guess my thought was that if this is real and Annie's actually really truly able to channel spirits or ghosts or whatever, the image that Michael had told me he saw was disturbing enough that I was worried that we were about to be messing with some, like, potentially sinister energy. Like, it just, yeah, I was nervous. But I was also so overtaken by my curiosity to try to figure out, like, what could be true,

what could be possible. And so it was all of that. So we agreed to go there, and I think we were just both excited. I think I was more nervous than she was. The energy was just, like, jittery and, like, I don't know. The world just felt kind of magical that night in a lot of ways. And, like, scary also, but also, like, so beautiful. Just the possibility of just feeling close to, like,

a completely different way of thinking about everything in the world. It was just funny too because it was like storming outside. It was late. It was probably 10.30 at night or something. And, you know, we had just had like a couple of drinks and we were just all riled up. And it just felt like such a scene out of a movie, literally, to decide to go to this like just slightly off the beaten path kind of place and try to talk to a ghost. But we did. And so, yeah, we pull up, or at least we start pulling up.

And I kind of start to notice that Annie is, like, entering a sort of reading state. It's almost like watching someone become, like, distracted by something. I guess I feel like the best way I can describe her when she's reading is sort of like someone with a huge, amount of information all around them that's sort of flowing or like cycling through their consciousness similar to maybe like scrubbing through stations on a radio you'll get just pieces and bits of information but it doesn't form one complete thought but you can grasp that little bits of it I guess it's sort of like watching someone trying to grasp at pieces of that flow of information as it's moving through them in a way for Annie at least I think

that there's a lot of like repetition of phrases or words or feelings that come to her, whether they're like emotional or even physical sensations as well. My name is Annie and I'm 29. I am from Savannah, Georgia and I moved to Richmond, Virginia about two and a half years ago. When I am conversing, for lack of a better term, with, a spirit in this manner, it's not like a clear conversation. It's not like a clear cut, hey, how are you today? I'm good. How are you? It's not like a, it doesn't work that way. The communication is way more peace together and it's a lot of feelings and impressions and emotions. It's almost like when somebody's telling you a story and you create the imagery in your head,

right, of like what's happening. So it's sort of like that or like, reading a book and you're kind of filling in the blanks in your head or something. So it becomes apparent quickly that Annie's immediately sort of like kind of slightly overwhelmed by I guess the amount of like energy that was coming from this area. She just made it almost a joke of like, okay, like there's there's a lot going on. Like there's a lot going on over here right now. Like I got to take a second. I got to kind of like acclimate into this.

And so she's doing that And honestly, almost immediately There were like several different things That started to come to her And there's like a lot of movement coming from above And she starts pointing above her And she's just making this circle with her hands And then she's like, okay, now there's this guy

And he's doing work or something He's like wearing overalls And he has a bucket or some tools And he's like moving from here to here Here to here. And she's kind of like gesturing back and forth and he's picking something up from over there and he's bringing it over here and he's doing it a bunch of times.

It wasn't immediately related to the thing that Michael had told me, but I was just there for the ride in and kind of just enjoying hearing these images that were coming to her and didn't really know what to make of it at first but was interested. And then after a second,

her energy sort of starts to shift and kind of like I started watching her become distracted by something or like, you know, there was something there that was really starting to command her attention. Her tone kind of shifts and she's like, there's something else here. There's like a woman here. She's like, why would there be a woman here? Hold up.

And so she kind of starts going into that. It seemed like whatever it was that was stepping forward was, like I said, commanding a lot of her attention and had like a really strong kind of demand. energy? At one point, I went down a staircase, and this staircase is like up next to the pump house, like touching the exterior of the actual building. And when I did, I felt that I was approached by a female who was pretty frantic. And she, her energy was kind of all over the place, which is a little alarming. Think about it as if you were walking down the street

and somebody sort of like ran up to you and is looking at you and you don't know them. You know, and so that's what happened. I'm like, you know, hold up, what is this? And she was wet. Her hair was like dripping and she was in a sort of long gown. I always joke, it's always a lady in a long gown,

you know, but that's what it was. That's what happened. And I tried to calm her down, you know, and I'm like, you know, what's going on? She had come from the body of water that is right there. It's, I suppose, it's maybe a man-made canal. But she came from this body of water, and she ends up telling me about how she was put there. At the first mention of like there's a woman here, I'm already a little like, oh, wow, okay, could be a coincidence, whatever. But then she continues and she's like there's definitely a young woman here and her energy is really frantic and desperate almost.

She's extremely upset about something. They did it to me was a phrase that kept coming into her mind and her consciousness, I think, as she was reading. she was like, they did it to me, they threw me in the water, they did it to me, they threw me in the water. At the mention of that, I like gasped so intensely to that. I think that was genuinely one of the most genuine feelings of like shock I've had in my life. Before it could have been like, well, maybe this was someone who committed suicide or something, but like they did it to me like,

Was this something, was this woman harmed? I don't know. I was trying to make sense of all this in that moment, but just the overarching feeling, I guess, was just shock that this had come up in such a specific way. Then there were like these physical sensations that started to come through to her, and Annie starts to go, like, okay,

so I'm like getting this sensation of pressure on this part of my head, and she kind of like puts her hand on her head and sort of is knocking at her skull and she's like, it's like pressure here or like it's almost like someone took a blow to my head here or like there's just this pressure on my head.

And she also started to feel this, she said that she was like feeling this fullness over her stomach area too, like this roundness or something. She was like it's sort of like, it's like a pregnancy. Like it feels, that's what it feels like. It feels like a pregnant stomach

or just this, feeling of fullness around her stomach area. And she was like, this is a young woman who is like in distress and, you know, she was still kind of trying to figure this all out. I did get the impression that she may have been pregnant. I was like touching my stomach as I'm talking to her and such. I can tell that she, that she's really upset. And it was, it was a little alarming in a sense of that I was having trouble calming her down.

And that can get scary just in terms of like you don't know what the spirit would do, I guess. I can't remember if she gave me a word or an impression or something, but I remember I had a visual of her going into a church and asking for help. At this period of time in her life, she's like in a bad way, and I don't know what that means. I don't know if she gave money or whatever. I don't know. but she's like in a bad way in her life. And she goes to the church asking for help.

And this is how it ended. And I don't know what happened in between. I didn't get that from her. I didn't get impressions or anything. We didn't go over that. But what I got was her going into the church asking for help. And now she's in this river or canal or whatever it is. And some person associated with this church in some major way was directly involved in

that point A to point B in her getting from the church to this body of water. And it was a male. I got the impression that the supposed potential pregnancy was perhaps

also related to this actual incident. Meaning this male figure associated with this church was directly involved in this pregnancy You know, all of the other things leading up, you could make an excuse for it being just a coincidence. But when she said they did it to me, they threw me in the water.

As if that's what this young woman spirit was trying to say or trying to get through as her message, I like got chills just because Michael had literally said he saw a young woman who was wet staring at. him by the pump house and then just trying to make sense of all these other details, like the pregnancy and like the blow to the head and the church. Like this woman is trying to describe that she needed help. Just the fact that it all lined up was extremely unbelievable, but now believable. At one point Annie had said like, we need to go like down into this area. there was sort of this weird, like almost like a moat or like an alcove area that was right up against like the base wall of this building.

Yeah, it was like this narrow walkway that was kind of surrounded by these two walls like along the edge of the building. And at one point, Annie said that she felt like we needed to go down there and stand down there to get closer to this spirit. or it was something about being down there that was going to allow us to talk to the spirit force better. I remember we were standing down there and that's when she mentioned she was close to me. She started getting a little bit more aggressive. And I remember Emma was standing in front of me,

you know, as I'm, I guess, sort of talking to this spirit, and, you know, sort of translating to Emma what's happening. And then I remember her being very close to Emma at one point. And that really upset me because I didn't get a good feeling by that. I didn't like that. I looked over. I remember looking at Emma and suddenly the spirit is very close to her. And I was immediately like, I don't like this.

This is making me uncomfortable. I don't want this. This is not good. We got it like, we're changing this up now. There was like a specific moment where she said this spirit was like saying something into my left ear, like specifically my left ear. She said this one thing. She was like, yeah, like she was real up on you for like she was real close to you for part of that. And that just gave me, oh my God, they gave me crazy chills.

It's already just this creepy, like, dank. space that feels kind of claustrophobic and just it was late and it was kind of raining and windy and that and on its own was that on its own was an uncomfortable enough scenario to be in but then I just remember when she said that I remember that's like when I gas because I just had never experienced anything like that before we left pretty soon after that when Emma and I left I felt this spirit, I guess I'll say followed us. I felt this spirit was sort of still clinging to us as we were leaving. This part, okay, this really does sound like hard for, I'm sure a lot of people to believe this,

but according to Annie also, apparently this girl was trying to like get onto my car. Like she said that I think she literally told me that she was on the hood of my car trying to follow us and I remember that because when we were talking about it later Annie said something to me

like just so you know you should probably put a message out into the universe or sort of direct that energy at this spirit we just came in contact with that like

she's not welcome in your life you need her to not infringe on your life in any way or attach herself to you and that you need to live peaceably on your own, you know, out of disrespect or with respect. And yeah, I just, like that, I mean, even me having experienced this with her, I just, it's not like funny, but it kind of is just, it's so absurd that it almost feels kind of funny to imagine

like her trying to come with us or like climb onto my car or something. Like, yeah, I don't know. That's just wild. Having time later on to sort of process everything and try to piece together this story

and understand this woman's story was really interesting. And I on my own have kind of come up with my own interpretation of how all these things that kind of came through relate to each other. And when I think about that story, it's, yeah, it's a sad story. It sounds to me like there was this girl who was pregnant, I guess, but wasn't supposed to be. or maybe she was taking advantage of and was pregnant and had some connection to the church.

And so it was taboo or something like that. And she tried to get help from someone or tried to go to the church to get help. But then someone, like, killed her or something. Like, because of the blow to the head, like, someone knocked her out and threw her in the water to like maybe cover up their own wrongdoing. As wild as that sounds, that's sort of the story that I'm going with right now just because that feels like it makes the most sense. But from what I remember in talking to her after,

I think we sort of both felt a similar thing. But yeah, when I think about like that young woman, it's like, damn, that's really rough. Like, that's really sad. This was someone who, if she was a real person and this actually happened, like, yeah, it just sounded like she, like, needed help. There was just so much desperation involved in that reading that it makes me think that she's kind of stuck here or she feels like her story was never told in the way that it should have been. I called Michael the next day to tell him what it happened. I mean, I was just, I felt like chills like I've never really had before.

Since it happened, a lot of times I kind of try and like forget about it because it just brings up a lot of like difficult, difficult questions. But, you know, I started to think about like what this ghost actually was if it was an actual like the soul of someone who just never, never found their. the rest that they deserve from whatever happened to them while they're dying. I think it would be, it would come from me more if it was, if, if, if it was the spiritual pain that hasn't gone away from that place rather than an actual, like, soul of a person that was stuck there. And I think that's what really scared me is that if that she was, like, stuck there and endlessly crying out for help, like, reliving this, like, moment over and over. To me, that just seems, it just seems what, like, hell is. So it seems too unfair to be true.

So I hope that it's not that way. I feel grateful to have had this experience that kind of bent my understanding. of the world even more. I don't know. I don't want to take too much credit, but I guess I see it that, like, if Michael hadn't have told me that story and if I didn't know Annie and I had that experience with her,

then those two separate experiences couldn't really connect in the same way that they can now or, like, talk to each other in the same way that they can now and being able to pay witness to both. I guess allows me to bring those two things together, and it kind of becomes this one story now. It's served as kind of a new awakening for me, where I do feel like I see it more so in that way now,

understanding that these are tangible experiences and that there are places we can go, and there are places that we will go. and knowing that there's a great mystery to all of it and that we'll literally never understand, but I just feel like so much is possible. All right, we have to take a quick break, but we'll be right back.

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and it's a powerful reminder that whatever you're going through right now, you don't have to navigate it alone. We all have those nights where we're lying awake, staring at the ceiling, feeling like we have to figure out, every answer by ourselves, but no journey should be solo. Having someone with you to listen and provide unbiased support can change everything. If you've been feeling overwhelmed or just stuck

lately, therapy can be that space to check in with yourself. Better help makes getting started easy. They use a short questionnaire to match you with one of their 30,000 plus licensed therapists, and you could switch therapists at any time if it isn't the right fit. You don't have to do this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash otherworld. That's betterhelp.com slash otherworld. Okay. So I thought this story was really interesting.

It's like three people who are only vaguely connected to each other, sort of testing their paranormal experiences. And Emma is the glue that facilitates all this. I think for Michael, he had the chance to validate the thing that he saw completely out of nowhere. For Annie, she got the opportunity to test her skills as a medium by going to this place she'd never heard of and see if she could pick up on anything related to the story that she was never told. And for Emma, I have to imagine it was an opportunity to kind of see if any of this was valid at all,

or if her two friends were just kind of weird. I loved this story, and I was curious about all of this myself, and I wanted to do my own form of testing as well. These three seemed to think that Annie was able to successfully pick up on what Michael saw, but I was curious about what it was that they actually saw. Was there actually a woman out there in history with a story that lined up with the story that these three sort of formed together based on their collective experiences? It was a woman in an old dress with wet hair.

Annie picked up on something about a church, going to the church. They did this to me. There was something about her getting hit in the head. And of course, the fact that she might have been pregnant. Annie described feeling a fullness in her stomach. Was there somebody out there that matches this description? I looked online a bit myself, and I did see a couple mentions of hauntings at the pump house,

but those stories that I read did not really seem very similar to theirs. So I decided to bring in somebody much better at this than me. I ended up calling Brenna Erlich. She's an investigative journalist. She's been on Otherworld before. I told Brenna to look into the pump house and see if there are any murders or deaths in the area. I didn't let her listen to any of our interviews or this episode. I didn't let her read the stories.

I just wanted to see what she could come up with on her own. I eventually did mention to her later on that if she sees anything, with a young woman that might have been pregnant that would be of interest to us. But I really didn't give her much because I just wanted to go out there and see what she could find. About two weeks later,

she came back with her findings, and this is our conversation. Brenna, welcome back. Thank you. It's great to be back. How has it been? It's been really interesting. You know, the history of the Pump House, I don't know if you talked about it yet

on this episode, is definitely really interesting. and there's some weird stuff associated with this place that I've discovered. You know, obviously it's part of the water system in Richmond built in the 1800s. And it was initially called the new pump house. I guess it's called the Bird Park Pump House now. First thing I saw that was really interesting is that the water in the pump house runs underneath the Hollywood Cemetery, which is the local cemetery that also has like three or four ghost stories. looking into deaths around the pump house, I found several.

There was Samuel Kinbro who was found in 1896, and there was suspected foul play. There was a kid named Harry Baum, who drowned there in 1901. Also, typhoid started wrecking its way through Richmond in 1908, you know, with help from the water system. And just several people also have drowned in the James River, which is feeding into the pump house. So, you know, like any of these people could obviously be ghosts. So I decided to kind of focus a little bit and look up, you know, rumored hauntings in that area, kind of cheating a little bit and kind of working backwards. So first I found a ghost hunter gentleman who named three spirits at the pump house. One was Daniel Tett Wheeler, who allegedly hung himself there, a ghost named Elizabeth, and then something named Spectra.

I immediately started looking into that. I looked up Daniel Tettweiler, who is not a real person. There is no record of anyone named Daniel Tettweiler. That immediately made me suspect the rest of these ghosts. So I decided to step away from that paranormal investigator and not reach out to him. I found another ghost story involving a female ghost on a YouTube channel that was telling ghost stories. Some guys had gone urban exploring and they saw a pale. ghost in her teens. She was apparently wearing formal attire, which I thought was interesting because

the pump house was used in the 18, 1900s for a lot of dances and parties. So I reached out to the person who made the video and I asked, you know, where that story came from because there was no credit or name or anything. So he told me it was based on this Reddit thread. I found the Reddit thread. And there's no girl in the Reddit thread. It's just the kids hear some voices and feel someone touching them. And then I guess the guy who made the video spiced it up with the ghost. I reached out to him as well, but he did not get back to me. I traced him down to some like four-wheeling platforms where he was sharing information about his gear. But,

Brenno, this is a very vivid picture of your painting of the paranormal industrial complex online. Yeah. It's not a good place. It's really bad. It's hard. I mean, I do true crime, so there's like a lot of similar, you know,

armchair, hobbyists and whatnot. So I just did some more searching, and I came across a really nice woman named Emily McArthur who was organizing a ghost tour at the pump house at the end of October. So I reached out to her and I was like, hey, I'm doing some research on the pump house and I'm curious, you know, what stories you've heard. And she had worked in some capacity with a local historian.

And he had a lot of the same deaths that I had. But he had also gone into microfichees. We went to the microfichees, I guess, and came up with 11 deaths around the pump house. and the one that stood out to me was this murder trial that made headlines across the U.S., like New York Times, in 1885. And this was the trial of Thomas Cluverius. So Thomas got his law degree at Richmond College, and he was a well-respected member of the community, and, you know, member of the church. He was arrested for murder in the late 1800s. And this was after the caretaker of the Richmond old reservoir had found the body of a young woman floating in the water.

And it was determined that she had drowned and had been assaulted. And she was eight months pregnant. Interesting. She was identified as a 23-year-old Fannie, Lillian Madison. And the coroner said that she had been murdered. How old was she? She was 23. So she had moved to Richmond to.

become a teacher. This guy Thomas and her were cousins and they were smartly attached to each other, was the way it was said back then. In the trial, the defense had said that Lillian committed suicide because she was unwed and pregnant. And the prosecution said that Thomas had killed his cousin to eliminate evidence of the indiscretion and protect his reputation. So he was found guilty of first-degree murder, and he was hung in 1887. And just to kind of paint a picture for you of where she was found, so the old reservoir is not very far from the pump house.

And at the time, all those canals and waterways were connected. So I know she's not someone who was found in the water of the pump house, but she just kind of grabbed my attention because there have been so many rumored sightings of female ghosts. Do we know how this person was murdered? So at first, you know, people probably thought that Fannie had killed herself. You know, she was found in the water. But they also found when the coroner came that she had a bruise over one eye and one of her lips was swollen.

She had a tear on her dress near her elbow. And, you know, the coroner also discovered at that time that she had been pregnant, eight months pregnant. And, okay, this is, I mean, I sound like a crazy person, but is there anything involving a church? Maybe. I'm not sure where the church was, but Thomas was, I guess, the assistant superintendent of the Sunday school. Okay. This is interesting. This is interesting.

You did a good job. Yeah. I'm impressed about how much you found in such a short amount of time. Nikki, what do you think? I have Nikki here. She's been working on the pump house this entire time. What do you think? This is crazy.

Well, yeah. What's your reaction to this? I mean, it's just so much of it is matching up, even in, because I don't know, the way, like, the story is told is, like, it's kind of just, like, phrases. Like, they did it to me, something about a church, something about a pregnancy. And so when you connect the dots, a lot of the people within the story do think that what happened was, like, maybe there was a girl who was, pregnant and like try to go to the church for help, but they didn't want to help them, you know, which lines up with what you're telling me, kind of. This is fascinating. I wasn't sure what to expect from sending you out there, but also

in the process of it, I realized, like, maybe a bit of the absurdity of, like, researching ghosts, right? Like, we don't really know what these are, and I don't know what the rules are. So when I sent you out looking around the area of the pump house, I kind of find myself thinking, like, is that even how it works? Yeah. Is that limited to, like, where they died? I feel like, I'd say, I'll just say, like, it sounds very similar, you know? I don't know if there's a word for it, but I don't want to, like, accuse somebody being a ghost that feels wrong. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Maybe it's not. So I don't want to, like, I don't want a ghost accused, but maybe this is the person. Either way, I'm very impressed by your research, Brenna. Thank you so much. Of course. I hope I scared you just as much as I did last time.

Hey, and also, now you could finally go listen to the story. That'll be really exciting. It's one of my favorite podcasts, as you know. Hey, everybody. How are you guys doing? Pretty good. It's been a long, long time. Emma, Michael, Annie, and Michael's cat.

Yeah. So I'll just get right to the chase. I decided to get an investigator involved, and she found one that sounds pretty similar. I feel weird saying this might be it, but it sounds very, very similar to both of your accounts. Apparently, this woman was murdered in 1885. She was murdered by this guy named Thomas Cluverius, and he was, I guess, the leader of the Sunday school at the local church. Yeah, Annie, I see you. He was her cousin, and he got her pregnant, and I think it was going to come out.

He apparently murdered her and threw her in the local reservoir, which feeds into the pump house. Oh, my gosh. It's kind of, yeah, it's pretty close, right? That's insane. Wait, I have a question. Did it, like, was there any indication of, like, Like, blunt force, like, how? I believe the coroner's report mentioned that there was bruising on her head during the assault.

Oh, my God. Bro! That's what? That's fucking insane. Annie! That's crazy. This is crazy. This is crazy.

Now, I'll show you the picture. Granted, this is like a very 1800s. picture, so it's honestly kind of hard to tell, I guess. Like, I don't know this is the picture of the person. Do we know how old she is or was? She was 23.

Yep. I feel like it might be that girl. I feel like it might be her. I don't know. Emma told me last night, and I was very frightened by it and her telling me. I mean, when I first saw the picture,

I was like, I don't know because that person in a picture. I was like, maybe that person is too old because the person I saw was young, so that's why I asked that. So you saying 23 is a further validation for me because that's, I mean, yeah. It's interesting, you know. Yeah, the pictures, it makes me feel sad because that's one thing if I'm seeing stuff that isn't real. You know, I've said this before where it's like, if I'm seeing stuff that isn't real,

then sure, maybe it's fun in games to like hash it out or something. But, you know, if it's real, then that's much more sad and scary. you know, thinking about the potential of, you know, her energy or her soul or whatever you want to say, you know, being so damaged through this traumatic event that she hasn't been able to move through it or past it or, you know, whatever the reason is. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I think I mentioned that, like, in my first interview, just like kind of reflecting at the end and that the overwhelming feeling was just like, it's really sad. It really feels very tragic. And I don't know. I mean, Michael were like, actually, Annie, we weren't here for this, but Michael was over last night and we were talking about like this today.

Thinking about ghosts as like trapped souls. It's more of like an energy imprint kind of in some sort of way that like some people have more access to you, obviously. Like, I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting. It's alarming because, you know, I don't know. Does she need help? Should I do something? I don't know what to do, you know?

and then, I mean, you're showing me a picture, so it's really putting, like, some depth to it, right? And it's like, assuming that this is her, you know, and this is a person, like, I don't know. What should I do? Should I go talk to her? Should I try to help? I don't know.

I'm not trained for that. I'm not a therapist, you know? Like, I don't know. It's, it's alarming. Well, if it was her that you saw, you'll maybe be comforted to know that Thomas, who was found guilty of, murdering her was hanged on January 14th, 1887.

That's my birthday, too. What? Well, I mean, not that long ago, but yeah, January 14th. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Wait, what, Michael? Wait, what? January 14th is his birthday. So, I mean, maybe somebody could even say, maybe that's why, you know,

if he would have had a connection or something. I don't know, Michael, have you seen anything else? It was this like a one-time thing for you. What do you mean? Like seeing a ghost, I guess, or seeing a spirit or whatever. Seeing ghosts? Yeah. I've seen other things, but I haven't seen anything as clearly as discos probably.

Yeah, I used to have like dreams where I would go inside the pump house. And I dreamed of this little hole that I always saw when I walked by it. And then I would want him to, like, climb into it and see it. Yeah. Wait, is this like before you had your experience or after? It's before I saw the ghost. That is really interesting. Yeah.

Guys, this is supposed to be the end of the episode. It's supposed to be the end. Michael, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I didn't know that you were having dreams leading up to this. That's really interesting. Wow. Well, guys, this has been really interesting.

Maybe there's a reason you three have been brought together. I think maybe you guys should hang out sometime as a group. At the pump house. Yeah. Maybe just in a regular way, honestly. Maybe so, yeah. But if you go back, definitely let us know what happens. Yeah, thank you very much for sharing this with us.

Yeah, I appreciate it as well. Yeah, thank you for, it's definitely a lot to think about. Yeah, sorry for roping everyone into this, like, anyways. All right, well, I hesitate to say that we found our answer here because there's no way of knowing for sure. And, of course, nobody truly knows how the spirits and afterlife works, but it is certainly interesting that Brent, Brenna ended up finding something so strikingly similar.

It really, really does seem to add up with what these three were picking up on in their experiences at the pump house. I think it's also interesting that Brenna, who is a professional investigator, didn't come across this particular story until she was well into her research. It took her days and multiple layers of investigating to uncover this one. and Annie being new to town, knowing nothing about the pump house, I just think even if she had tried to cheat a little bit by looking up haunted stories in the area or link to the pump house before going over there, I don't even think she would have had time to do that,

but if she were to, she wouldn't have found this particular story. I tried to look things up myself and I never saw this one. So that pretty much brings us to the end of this episode. I want to thank all three of our storytellers, Emma, Annie, and Michael for speaking to us. Also a big thank you to Brenna Ehrlich for doing that incredible investigative work. This has been episode 99. The title is The Pump House, and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner.

Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice Jackal and North Americans. This episode was edited by Theo Krantz and engineered by Theo Schaefer. Our artwork is by Coldestack Studios. Nikki Kate Delgado is our associate producer, production help by Haley Pearson. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends about Otherworld. If you want to hear bonus episodes, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash Otherworld. Our social media is at Otherworld Pod.

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