Ouvre ton jeu avec Marie-Claude Barrette - #105 Anne-Élisabeth Bossé | Ouvre ton jeu avec Marie-Claude Barrette

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello everyone, welcome to Open Your Game. I want to come back a little bit to the event. It's been more than a month since it came out, but like podcasts are timeless, you can go watch them whenever you want. You can listen to them, you can also watch them because obviously there is the image. I want to come back to the episode with Jeannette Bertrand. The number of comments we got is incredible. What touches me all the time when I talk about Jeannette,

Starting point is 00:00:26 is that she unites all generations. A lot of young people have discovered her through the last podcast, or even, we must say, her 100th birthday, where she also made a lot of talk. She did a lot of interviews. But in the podcast, she really goes into depth, during more than an hour and thirty minutes. And she was so generous with the audience. What an inspiring woman!

Starting point is 00:00:50 I'm going to read one of the comments because I couldn't read the hundreds, even I think the thousands of comments. Nicole says, Pioneer in many fields throughout your life, you have explained and made us understand many things and we are very grateful for it. domain tout au long de votre vie. Vous nous avez expliqué et fait comprendre bien des choses et nous vous en sommes très reconnaissante. Aujourd'hui, c'est votre tour de vous laisser parler d'amour et Marie-Claude l'a fait d'une façon géniale. Merci pour cette entrevue dans laquelle on a encore appris des choses, même assez coquines. Sur vous, Jeannette, nous vous souhaitons une belle continuité car nous savons que vous avez encore plein de projets. Que la force soit avec vous. On vous aime. Vive le boulevard Tachereau. Si vous écoutez l'épisode, si vous l'écoutez, vous savez à quoi je fais référence. Elle est toujours surprenante, mais effectivement,

Starting point is 00:01:33 elle est coquine. Et à la question, qu'est-ce qu'on t'a reproché le plus souvent, elle a répondu, parlez de sexualité. Et vous allez voir pourquoi dans le podcast, parce que dans le fond, elle nous a appris beaucoup, c'est vraiment très intéressant. Je vais vous parler d'un partenaire And you will see why in the podcast, because in fact, she taught us a lot. It's really very interesting. I'm going to talk to you about a partner who joined us recently because we have the same values. We wanted to work together and we developed with Spaceman. And I want to talk to you about Spaceman. We have now the question Spaceman.

Starting point is 00:02:03 And if you go to, I show, and if you go to Patreon, which is a platform where there are several podcasts, you will be able to get the answer. We will do it here, but only Patreon subscribers who will be able to listen to it. I just want to say that Patreon is the episodes that on the website in advance. And also, there is no advertising. There are exclusivity for subscribers. In this question, there are draws, prizes to win. And there are levels.

Starting point is 00:02:36 So it's from $3 per month subscription. And there are different levels. And there is a level where I can go and talk to you. We will do things together. So, meet on Patreon. But what I want to tell you is why we wanted to can go and talk to you. We will do things together. So, meet on Patreon. But what I want to tell you is why we wanted to be with Spaceman. It's that for me, it's really a place that does good, a place of better being. We also have the Marie-Clob platform, Espace mieux être.

Starting point is 00:02:58 So, you have to take care of yourself. And we see it in every episode of the podcast. People talk to us about them, that at episode of the podcast. People talk about them. At times, they stopped taking care of themselves. And that's what's happening. It's really... First of all, it's located in the canton of the East, so it's an hour from Montreal to Eastman, of course. It's a resourceful place. It's also all-inclusive. You can sleep there. There are meals served. It's really extraordinary. And Jocelyna Dubuc,

Starting point is 00:03:26 who is the initiator of this SPA, she is still there. She only wants to be the best of the people who are. I tell you, if you don't know, go visit their website. It's really a place that does good. So we are very, very, very proud to have them with us

Starting point is 00:03:42 and we will have prizes to win, among other things, to the Spiesmen. So you just have to be a Patron. I would like to thank all of our partners, including the Marie-Claude, who gives 10% discount on the annual subscription. So you can go to Marie-Claload.com. Karine Jonquard, qui d'ailleurs, c'est elle qui nous a présenté, je vous parlais Janette Bertrand, c'est grâce à elle qu'on a pu présenter l'Ouvre Ton Jeu avec Janette devant public. On la remercie, c'est une partenaire depuis le tout début. Et si vous rendez sur le site de Karine Jonquard, vous faites des achats en ligne, elle vous offre

Starting point is 00:04:20 15% de rabais avec Ouvre Ton Jeu 15. Héroces et compagnie où on a toujours des questions. Je trouve, au début je me demandais qu'est-ce que ça va donner? Est-ce que les invités seront mal à l'aise avec ce niveau-là? Et pas du tout. Il y a une grande maturité, je trouve, autour de cette table quand on arrive à parler d'intimité, de sexualité. Toujours intéressant. Et eux aussi vous offrent 15% de rabais.

Starting point is 00:04:44 Vous avez seulement qu'à vous rendre sur le site d'Héroces et compagnie They also offer 15% discount. You only have to go to the Ross & Company website and enter the promo code ROSE15. Of course, we have a partner, we have their glasses among others in our set. The partner is Optoraiso, so it's franchised. There are some everywhere in Quebec. We thank them for being with us. Of course, the team without whom this podcast would not have taken place at all. Caroline Dionne at coordination, David Bourgeois at online, Jonathan Frichette at digital creation, Etienne Collard at capture, Jérémie Boucher at social networks. It's time to talk about my guest of the day.

Starting point is 00:05:19 She is a very versatile girl. She is a comedian that we love. We want to be her friend, we feel like we know her even without knowing her. Every time she plays a role, we forget the role she played before, and that's a great quality for an actress. But above all, she's an interesting woman. I had trouble preparing the game, and I had too many questions for her.

Starting point is 00:05:44 I wanted to have an even longer game, but I said, no, no, no, we're going to do it like the others. So even this morning when I arrived, I removed some questions, because I had put more. I said to myself, but where are we going to go with her? So I can't wait to see what she's going to pick up and what questions she will have to answer. I'm talking about Anne-Elisabeth Bossé.

Starting point is 00:06:04 To tell you, as I can't wait for her to be in front of me. she will have to answer. I'm talking about Anne-Elisabeth Bossé. I'm looking forward to her being in front of me. I'm going to give her the floor. I'm going to let her come in. So, floor to Anne-Elisabeth. My father has been in Alzheimer's for a few years. It was a shock. He lost a lot of faculty. He's in HSLD now.

Starting point is 00:06:26 So I think we... It seems like death has entered my life at that moment. He's still there, but we don't have a choice but to think about it, because it's a degenerative disease. So you know you won't be able to play dead. That makes you feel extremely powerless, and when you're an active person, it's terrible. I didn't find my way to be in peace,

Starting point is 00:06:54 except to be a spokesperson for the Federation, because it gives me a little punch on something. I don't like to think about when my father is going to leave, but I don't like to think that he's going to stay either, to lose everything, until it's all gone. I'm no longer able to look at Mané. It's a funny dance that I do with my mother. It's like I'm sitting in the corner and I tell myself,

Starting point is 00:07:16 Mané is going to have to talk to her. But before, she wasn't in the room. Open Your Game is presented by Karine Jonquas, the skin care reference, available in nearly a thousand pharmacies in Quebec, and by the Marie-Claude, which is a space dedicated to the best-being, where more than a hundred masters are located, led by experts, available on Marie-Claude.com. Les jeux de table Ouvre Ton Jeu Original et l'édition Couples sont disponibles partout au Québec et sur Randolph.ca. Comme je vous le disais en intro, j'avais hâte de la recevoir.

Starting point is 00:07:55 Elle est devant moi. Bienvenue, Anne-Élisabeth. Merci, Marie-Claude. Je suis contente que tu sois là. Moi aussi, tu m'avais fait l'invitation rapidement dans une soirée bénéfique il y a deux ans. Puis je t'avoue que j'avais vraiment envie de venir. Oh, I'm glad you're here! Me too, you made me an invitation quickly in a benefit evening two years ago, and I have to admit that I really wanted to come. I was looking forward to inviting you! A lot has happened since then.

Starting point is 00:08:12 I know! Life is fast, so I'm really happy to honor this invitation. How are you? I'm fine. I'm doing very well. Yes. Very, very well. Very well. It seems like it's hard to answer one thing. Life is full of things, but at the moment I find that there are a lot of things that are going well.

Starting point is 00:08:32 So no, no, I'm able to answer simply, yes, I'm fine. I listened to everything that is available until now. Pouri gatté. Gatté pourri? Hey, pourri gatté, that's what my mother told me. You guys, it's gatté pourri. Pourri gatté. Gatté pourri. C'est ma mère qui me disait ça. T'es pourri, gatté. Vous autres, c'est gatté pourri. Pourri gatté, c'est aussi une série en France. On s'en est rendu compte après qu'on avait deux fois... Fait que là, on fait attention.

Starting point is 00:08:50 Fait que c'est gatté pourri. Gatté pourri. Mais c'est tellement bon. Ah, t'aimes ça? Ah, ben oui. Mais t'sais, le premier épisode, j'étais là, je vais tuer mes seuls. Qu'est-ce qui va se passer? Moi, je suis tout le temps... Ça me prend deux épisodes, moi, pour... Puis là, le deuxième épisode, j''m like, OK, I like it. I like that. The dynamic between Pascal, Susie, you...

Starting point is 00:09:09 You co-wrote that series, right? Yes. Two years ago, almost three years ago, we had a flash during the trip, the three of us together. We've been friends of improvisation for years. So it's Pascal, just Renaud and Berre, for those who don't know, and then Susie Bouchard. Pascal, who you received, by the way. Yes, who is extraordinary.

Starting point is 00:09:28 Yes, and we said to ourselves, it would be fun to... You know, we love making jokes in real life, and we said to ourselves, well, what if we put this pleasure to work, if we tried to write a series together? And we were lucky, we had room in the Crave grid, we have a very nice development. We know the three girls well. I still have a lot of crap to eat. Writing, I'm the only one who doesn't have any training in scriptwriting, whatever. I learned on time a little, with humility.

Starting point is 00:09:54 But yes, it gave a lot of episodes. With very different characters. Yes. Characters that we understand more and more over the episodes. I think it's good because it's like we don't break our heads. No, that's it. It's a moment of release and take. It was really the goal to do something deeply funny.

Starting point is 00:10:13 The characters have really simplistic quests. The plan is to make friends. At the moment, I don't snob all that, shows that just do good. I'm not saying we can't think of anything. but the goal was really to have a good time. You have 22 minutes to just laugh, it goes fast, it amuses you, it amazes you, and then it's over. And it's perfect. And you say, you're not going to do that? Well, yes, you're doing it.

Starting point is 00:10:39 Oh yes, yes, I'm not going to the end of the project. Especially my character. Your character, that's it. But the comments are good so far? Really. I don't know yet if we're going to be played again, but I think people like it. And yes, we're getting some good stuff. In any case, I hope you'll be played again. You're very kind. So, are you ready to open your game?

Starting point is 00:10:57 Let's open the game. Let's open the game. So, the green questions are general questions, the yellow questions, more specific. The red questions, we are not always personal, but red hair is very personal. It's correct. And you will understand that it's sensual or sexual.

Starting point is 00:11:14 Spice men is a question, a better being, a question that does good. Opto-Hezo is always the last question to end this great meeting. And your joker, if you think it's going too far's always the last question to end this great meeting. And your joker, if you think it's going too far and you don't want to answer these questions anymore, you have the right to use it once, you put it on the table and immediately I think of another question. That's correct. So it protects you. It's my joker.

Starting point is 00:11:36 Green level, you put them on the table. You're going to give me five, please. You're going to choose one and I'm going to choose one. I'm not going to say it. No, you give me five and I'm going to choose one. I'm not saying... No, you give me five. I'll read them to you. Okay, and I choose the one I want. Yes, it's not that mysterious. I lived it very late.

Starting point is 00:11:54 You give me five. Okay, I'll give you the five first. There you go. Thank you. So I'm going to read them to you, and that's where you're going to choose one. How do you react to authority? What kind of child were you? When I look in the mirror, I see. What importance do you give to others?

Starting point is 00:12:17 Which person made a difference in your life? That's a good question. I'll choose that one. Perfect. So the question you choose is how do you react to authority? Yes. Well, I had a father who was a policeman. And it really shaped my education. When I was a child, obéissant. C'était important de respecter le chain of command. Respecter la ligne de commandement.

Starting point is 00:12:53 Exactement. Puis ça m'a aidé parce que je trouve que je suis quelqu'un qui... Je respecte ça, l'ancienneté. Je respecte mes partenaires plus âgés. Je trouve toujours que j'ai à apprendre des gens plus vieux que moi. I respect my older partners. I always think that I'm learning from older people than me. But on the other hand, it's at my night, because I think that now, our generation has learned a lot to help, precisely, not to be troubled, not to be lazy, not to say no. And now, aging, I find that I have a lot, I have a lot of keeping it inside of me.

Starting point is 00:13:21 And it has made that I really often haven't crossed my borders with people of authority. Even, I think, quickly, I put people in authority. It's rare that I feel above because I don't know, I kept it in me to be... I don't know, to take your place, to take a little place. Yes, that's it. To take up all the space, just to take up my place, that's like my... That was my challenge in life. And I learned, but it was so long that I could confront someone, stop someone, put someone back in their place. It was really difficult because I was always...

Starting point is 00:13:56 There was something in me that said it wasn't right. It wasn't being a good person, it wasn't being a good girl. Being a good girl. You were a good girl? Yes. That comes back to the father. Well, yes. The mother also. To the parents.

Starting point is 00:14:12 Was your mother also authoritarian? Or is she still maybe? No, I think we were more... You know, we weren't a family. Ah, the children, they put whipped cream in... How to say? They jump out of a puddle of water, they disturb in a family, like, oh, the kids put whipped cream in... How do I say it? They jump out of a puddle of water, they disturb in the restaurant, it's okay. I think we wanted to be there anyway.

Starting point is 00:14:32 But we're not a bad family. Yes, exactly. But you know, there are families who don't care more. It seems that the kids come dressed as they want, they sing, and it's okay. For us, it was more like... We don't attract attention, but we don't show off... I can't lie.

Starting point is 00:14:48 Low profile. So when you want to be an actress and you're in a low profile family, there's a kind of contradiction. To want the light, but at the same time, once you have it, once you have attention, it looks like something is not right. It's like misery going to the X of the scene, where the light is the most on you. That's what I want, but once I have it, I'm like,

Starting point is 00:15:11 is it okay? Are you okay? Are you bothering you? It was like... but I was talking about that in the past because I think that I'm 40 years old anyway, we change a little bit in life. Sometimes we say that we don't change, but if you're looking at it with a good look, it switches. Do you think that's what you had inside you? And since you had a more pronounced youthful authority, it's as if you had camouflaged that part of you that wanted to take that place?

Starting point is 00:15:42 If it had disappeared, I would have been really happy. It wasn't so well received, that part of me. That desire to be an actress, it made no one proud. It didn't hurt anyone, but it wasn't like, Oh, my daughter is so talented, let's go. Look at the audience, they're like, My God, she likes that, it's going to end up well. It had to be so strong in me, that flame,

Starting point is 00:16:02 to go through the trials, because it was... I wouldn't have wanted to see that. Wait, that's true. What you're saying is throwing me to the ground. Oh yes, but... It's because... You're a joker. No, no, what I'm saying is that it's going to talk to a lot of people. Oh yes?

Starting point is 00:16:20 You know, sometimes, precisely, you move forward, you back down, you think, because at what point in your life did you feel that you wanted to be a comedian, that you wanted to back up characters, that you wanted to take that place, which is you, you're an audience, and who is in front of you, and then you offer something to them? As soon as I got into school, maternity, I was really intrigued. I didn't go to maternity because I didn't have the opportunity, but first year, natural science teacher who said,

Starting point is 00:16:47 we're going to make a little piece on the environment. And me, shy child, big shaved hair, it was hidden in the background, it was like... Me! And that comes out of nowhere. I put it in work, I chose 10 people, I did the distribution of roles, presentation in front of the parents, no shame.

Starting point is 00:17:04 Blah, blah, blah. My parents were like, my God, it's weird. And everyone was like, hey, good! And I was like, well, yes, it's cool. Well, yes. And in high school, I started doing schoolwork in theater. I signed up for the troupe called Les Alexandrins. I had a little role, I wasn't very good, but I was absolutely there, I was there all the rehearsals, I had the text for everyone. And when the high school interview was over, it was time to make a choice for the Cégep, and I really wanted to go to the theater. But it involved moving, having an apartment.

Starting point is 00:17:38 My family was like, well, you know, I'm a bit of a drama student, can you do Arélette at the Cégep? I said no, because it's a theater session, a dance session, a session. I want to go to the theater, for real. It's been the biggest struggle of my life. If you don't let me go there, I'm going to die. My father said, well, she's really going to die. What are we going to do? So I went to the apartment and studied in theater.

Starting point is 00:18:02 I became an actress. But as I told you, if there was a part of me that would have wanted to be a mathematician or something else, I would have gone full pin. But it was the loudest scream among all, if everyone else did everything. It was a smile. So, that's it. I had to say my opinion for my passion. As if it was a sexual orientation.

Starting point is 00:18:24 As if I would have preferred not to be that. It wasn't everyone's business. Life was going to be more difficult. But it was really stronger than anything. But I don't want to insult people. I don't want to compare the fights because it's different. No, but it's your fight. It's a big fight. Because what you're saying is, it's like there was a barrier.

Starting point is 00:18:41 And we all knew that barrier, parents, authority. And then you had to cross that barrier. We all knew about this barrier. Parents, authority, you know, I mean, it's... And then you had to cross this barrier. And especially, in fact, you had to open the barrier. To let you go, to say, well, we don't know why, but clearly, we want to go through it. Well, they had to fight their own fear, their ignorance in relation to this job,

Starting point is 00:19:02 and their prejudice. What were the prejudices? Was it money? Was it what you were going to earn in your life? Well, it was also, it seemed like... I'm going to talk for them and I'm sure they would be like, frankly, annihilated, but it seems that artists are weird people. At home, we're not weird. My father is a policeman, my mother is a worker, technician in radiology, my brother is in computer science. It was so out of nowhere.

Starting point is 00:19:23 Artists are weird people, they eat peanut butter, they don't know how to do it, do you understand? And then they die smoking. A young man, a young man, all crooked. It's true that I was good at school, and it didn't occur to them that I was going to lose that potential. As if, I'm throwing flowers, but let's say my learning speed, my intelligence, was not going to be able to serve me in theater. Whereas, on the contrary, you know, being intelligent brings humanity,

Starting point is 00:19:53 it brings a lot of things, but I don't know, it's for them, it was like, let's see all these beautiful notes in the trash. You've done your physics sciences, you don't even need them, you're 536, you don't need them, it was nonsense. I was made to please you. It may have been too difficult, I'm lucky, but no, no, I did everything. Now it's my turn. Yes, and I tried. I backed off, I wanted a Plan B. I wasn't a bad choice. Look, I'm still here. I'm still in the same emergency,

Starting point is 00:20:26 in the same vitality. They made it clear, and they're proud today. And you were accepted for the first time in a theatre school? At the first auditions? Yes, I was. I did my CEGEP first. I spent a year at university,

Starting point is 00:20:42 a bit of anything, I felt a bit young to do the grand saut. I spent a year bit of a kid to do the big jump. I was going to be a student at UQAM, and it was the year I prepared my auditions. I ultimately did some improv and drank some beer too. I have a little bit of memories of my students at UQAM. I prepared my auditions very seriously, by the way. I accepted my first year at the Conservatoire de la Dramatique, and it was my dream. Tell me about your first day at the Conservatoire de la Dramatique. It was my dream. What was your first day at the Conservatoire?

Starting point is 00:21:08 Oh my God! It was the meeting with the group. It's the group that will follow you for about 70 hours a week for three years. It wasn't a one-off. It was very difficult. I felt so down. I felt a little bit down, and I would have been a little bit down. I felt a little bit down. I didn't want it to seem like that, so I didn't think I was

Starting point is 00:21:30 very nice. I think that to camouflage my inner little self, I took the world from above. I found the world in my class. I wasn't sure it was going to break. But you knew it was going to break. Yes, but no, but I was taking a lot. And it took three hours to break that shell and kiss all the parts of me,

Starting point is 00:21:52 and go to the meeting for real with this world, with the quality and everything. But yes, I'm afraid of fear, of passion, but at the same time, I had a side. At the beginning, yes, I think I became much more loving with the years I was when I started at the Conservatoire. What made you change? Well, maybe you removed the surplus, you went to your birthplace. Well, as we greatly valued the intellect in our country, I think I tried to approach that with intellect.

Starting point is 00:22:22 Ah, yes, and not with... With heart. It's like if if I remember, I said, but if I go down, I go down, I won't be able to go back up. And he said, no, no, when you go down, you have more. When you go up, you have less. It's the opposite.

Starting point is 00:22:34 When you go down, you're going to have a bigger pallet. I said to myself, I'm going to become an animal. I'm going to be particular. I was like scared. It was all black, it was white. And I went down, I accepted to be vulnerable. I became better and I became a better person too. It's all contaminated. Sometimes, some people learn it late.

Starting point is 00:22:55 Yes, it's true. It's not easy to be vulnerable. Sometimes, it's scary to go down. You stay up because you don't want to. It's a loss of control too. Like on the podcast, sometimes we invite people who don't want to come because they don't want to go down. It's okay, everyone is free. Exactly. And you were able to do it when you were young.

Starting point is 00:23:13 And now that's all I'm interested in. Going down is beautiful. And that's where I like to meet the world too. Otherwise, I'm more interested in it. And your parents, after you did your conservatory, I don't know when they saw you on stage officially. They saw me all, they saw me in high school, but I admit it wasn't convincing. But after you had your conservatory, how did it become official? My finishing shows in 2007.

Starting point is 00:23:40 From the moment I was accepted to the conservatory, they were very proud. They saw me on stage, they... But I had the validation of the conservatory. They saw me in my singing classes, they thought I was singing well, it surprised them. But the first thing that really surprised them, a Tim Horton ad. That, my father, he said, no, but it's going to be okay. Incorrect. I remember we had a drink at the park, on the ice rink.

Starting point is 00:24:06 It was... it looked like the worries disappeared when the television arrived. And yeah, we did that. But they always supported me. They paid my rent, my parents. And they paid my tuition. No, but it's because you're their little girl and they should say, is that what's best for them?

Starting point is 00:24:22 Exactly, because it's not the best for them. It's protection. It's protection. It's love. Of course, but that's it. I had to lose the layer of protection. Hey, authority has become a lot of garbage. But authority is because it marks us the parental authority in our lives. Yes, a lot.

Starting point is 00:24:44 There are some who didn't have enough. I know. There are some, they didn't have enough. I know people who say, my parents weren't authoritarian, I never understood what my limits were. Parents are there to show a territory that they will grow over time, but it gives us limits, it tells us how to function in society.

Starting point is 00:25:00 It's important to have those limits. Yes, it makes better people. Because there are some, it's just that sometimes it's more an electric closure have those limits. Yes, it makes better people. Sometimes, it's more an electric closure. It depends on the parents, you know. Yes, there was a small side of more electric closure than a small closure in the lamp. But it's better than no closure at all.

Starting point is 00:25:18 Exactly. Just to finish, now, do you take the light? Yes, I learn a lot. I don't apologize anymore. And how do you feel? Well, since I'm 40, it's like... it's a pleasure. I want some light, I ask for it, I read it, I say thank you. I don't know, is it okay? Is it what I call my second adolescence?

Starting point is 00:25:38 Where I really... I want a bag of tutu, I want a bag of tutu, I want a ridiculous hat, I put it on, I'm proud. I know it attracts attention, that's what I want. Well, social media attracts attention with that. I look at you with your weird hats. I love that. But I find you free. Ah, it's good for me.

Starting point is 00:25:54 I look at that, I say, she doesn't care. I really got a punch. I really got a punch on that and it really does me the greatest good. Yeah, it's good for us too. She has fun, you know, Ariane Waffat just released her album with the word game in it. Yes. And I was talking to an actress not long ago, and she said, I have to learn to play, not to play on a stage, but to play in life.

Starting point is 00:26:16 And the game is important. You know, I thought Ariane Moffat, she arrives with a title that goes with the time. We forget to have fun. But you, I have the impression that you play time. We forget to have fun. But I feel like you're playing in your life. You're having fun. I'm trying to connect. I think humor is a beautiful way. It says a lot about it.

Starting point is 00:26:34 Humor is vulnerable. It brings to a playful side my players. It's beautiful. I like that. The question I choose when I look in the mirror, I see. It starts in the morning. That too, yes. Well, I see someone who worked on themselves, who made a lot of progress, but I still see a lot of unresolved injuries.

Starting point is 00:26:57 I don't see a version of it. Well, who is a version of it? I see a part... It's funny, I thought you would ask me these questions, and I looked in the mirror before coming to you. I don't always talk to myself with kindness. I think I could say more beautiful things, even if I'm free and all that, I think I'm caught up in standards of physical appearance.

Starting point is 00:27:25 It's the part of my 40s that I don't like. Always wanting to be younger, always criticizing myself, always... I have to learn to age better, because it won't be nice. That's what I'm telling myself right now. You'll have to change your attitude, change your discourse. Well, not the discourse, because I say what I have to say to be socially accepted, but the inner discourse is sometimes not great. Yes, because often the inner discourse will have an influence on the outside.

Starting point is 00:27:53 That's for sure. You know, we see ourselves differently, all depending on our inner discourse. And you know, there are people who tell me, as you get older, you have to remember that the day in the present is the day when you will always be the youngest. That's true. I have to remember that phrase too. I'm going to be worse tomorrow. Tomorrow will be another day.

Starting point is 00:28:14 I was like, yes, it's also a way to look at yourself and have a softer and more humorous inner discourse maybe in relation to yourself. Yes, as much as I have a part of myself, as they say, I take things lightly, I relax. I have a lot of philosophy in general when it comes to adversity. But compared to my physical appearance, I can be so tyrannical. It doesn't seem like it because I don't have a body of someone who is tyrannical with himself. But despite that, I...

Starting point is 00:28:41 What are you saying? Let's say yesterday, I ate pâtes. But it was great fun. We have a pâte machine with my chum, and we make them ourselves. We went to Italy, we did a course. But all along, I was like, yeah, that's for sure, we'll make some butter sauce. And yeah, that's for sure, it's not great, it's a lot of carbs. And yeah, there's's cheese in it.

Starting point is 00:29:05 But I was so happy about my present moment of living it, and today, I was like, well, that's it, you ate pasta, you're in the shower, I was like, don't wait for it to be good. It's like that. It's in your genes too. I think it's... It never stops. It's never over. It never ends.

Starting point is 00:29:22 It never ends the calorie count in my head. I even had an app. If you want to lose weight, you have to do it like that. You have to go on a calorie count in my head is over. Imagine I had an app. If you want to lose weight, you have to do it like that. You have to go on a calorie deficit, so you don't have to calculate. It made me crazy. Yeah, okay, chicken, weigh the chicken. Oh, now I taste a kombucha. There's a little bit of sugar in it.

Starting point is 00:29:38 But look, it can't be a... I called it a life without a muffin. You didn't have breakfast, you come to a coffee, I'm going to have a muffin. No, no. I've been without a muffin for years. It can't be a life without a muffin. You don't have breakfast, you come to a coffee, I want to take a muffin. No, no. I was years without a muffin. It can't be a life without a muffin, but I tell myself, a muffin at the same time, that's it. It's a lot of calories. It's not necessary.

Starting point is 00:29:54 You can bypass that with... I find that I've been in prison for that, and when I try to get out of it, I blame myself by saying, well, that's it. And when did you end up in prison? It's been a long jail? Oh, always. I'm 7 years old. Not 7 years old. When my parents separated at 9, I think I was compensated for the food. I was a little fattened up. I had a high school where I...

Starting point is 00:30:20 I didn't make the connection between what I eat and my body. I had the appetite to eat, I needed to eat, I was eating a lot. I was gaining weight a little, but I kept on eating. But I said I was still fat. I remember going to a health clinic, my sisters, maybe in high school, to weigh myself. Yeah, that's it. And how did you realize it?

Starting point is 00:30:47 Was it the look of others? Were it the people who were talking about it? Or was it about you? I don't think it was my friends in the media. But you know, I used to watch a lot of TV, and a lot of American TV. I also dreamed of light. So who says light says Hollywood?

Starting point is 00:31:04 Glam, glam. The world was so small. The actresses were so small. I was looking at TV. I was like, how do they do it? Again today, I wonder how they do it. Oh my God, it's so much privacy. But for some, there are some who are metabolites. And what do you find beautiful in this thinness? Oh, I think the laundry is great. I think it's beautiful.

Starting point is 00:31:21 I never lied. I think it's beautiful. I don't necessarily think it's healthy. Well, never lied to myself. I think it's beautiful. I don't necessarily think it's healthy. For some people, it is, but... Yeah, I have the pain of losing it. I don't know. I think it's beautiful. And now, how do you feel? Correct. It could be better. I'm still telling myself...

Starting point is 00:31:37 And what could be better? I'm still at 10-15 pounds to be at my best. It's... how was it called? The foodie, I think, the nutritionist, she had written a book at 10 kilos of happiness. I was impressed by that book. In fact, it made me feel at peace with it, with the weight. You know, we're always at 10 kilos of our happiness.

Starting point is 00:32:01 It's that we also associate it with the wounds of esteem or the lack of love that can happen in a life. It's often because I'm not at my best. It's like I had made a correlation between holding, being loved and having a perfect body. And I know that, you know, I'm intelligent, I know that's not it. But in my weaknesses, that's where it goes. But you have a job too. Well yes. I know that's not the case, but in my weaknesses, that's where it goes. But you also have a job where your body is part of the character. Your body is an important tool for work.

Starting point is 00:32:33 We see your body at 360 degrees. Absolutely, from back to front, lying on your back. And you don't know what you're going to wear. You're in life, you can say, that's an advantage, but a character, you don't have control over what that character is going to wear. Yes, and it's important to let go of control over that too, because otherwise we'll always be dressed the same way. Exactly, but except that when you have a problem, when you already think about it, I imagine that sometimes it must be difficult, that I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

Starting point is 00:33:06 I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

Starting point is 00:33:14 I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

Starting point is 00:33:22 I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not surees I know who said, we're going to have to slack and bang. Because then, the costume of the conservatoire, it's years... of the 4th, or let's say the 6th, it's from the 2nd or the 0th today. The costumes of the time were so small. We were always brought back to the fact that we were going back to nothing.

Starting point is 00:33:36 And then, I'm sorry, I'm going to fart, but... You don't have a lot of money, you eat a little of the nuts on the corner, we're close to what you eat, you don't have money to eat so well. It was really hard to accept. And then, yes, when you do my first shoots, the rehearsals, it wasn't all the costumes that were fine. You're like, this value, it would have done you good if you had less hips. Oh, I was hoping so much that you'd have a skirt, I found it beautiful.

Starting point is 00:34:01 Oh yeah. Oh, it would have been more beautiful than bigger legs. You know, you hear all kinds of stuff that... You're like, but it's still a little impregnable. Well, I understand, you're telling me that, and that's for sure. But today, you wouldn't hear that anymore. People, they know that they have their discourse changed. But in the past, there wasn't too much precaution in relation to that. The esteem of the actress, we didn't pay much attention to that.

Starting point is 00:34:19 And then, if you put your foot down, you're a diva. You're complicated. You know, it's quickly, we have the apophene too. We didn't pay attention to that. And then, if you put your foot down, you're a diva. You're complicated. You know, it's quickly, we have the apophene too. And the rumors go fast, you have to be careful. So you're interested in going along, but that's it. But today it's easier, I think.

Starting point is 00:34:36 And the world speaks better, people are more empathetic. And I think that's it. I let myself go. Everything is easier. I let myself go. The world is finer. But it's still... Sometimes I looked at myself as an indefendant and I was like, but you didn't touch me. Don't touch me, my love. You're prettier. People don't like me. But look. Yeah, but because, you know, like, most people don't live that.

Starting point is 00:34:58 Yeah. It's often seen like that. That's it. So, you know, I can understand that at some point there's a different relationship with the body. And does your chum somehow calm down that look you have on you? Unfortunately, few people are ready to calm me down. It's not their fault, it's not anyone's fault, but there's no cure. It's between me and me that it's going to have to happen. You're going to tell me that I'm beautiful a hundred times. The first time you're going to tell me,

Starting point is 00:35:28 hey, you've been hit by a pole again, I'm going to do, what? Who hit you? It's gone. I can't blame anyone for telling me something that made me feel bad or not being kind. It's in my head. But yes, it's good for someone who loves us for who we are. I wouldn't let anyone enter my privacy

Starting point is 00:35:46 and criticize me at that level. It would make no sense. But I can't say that there's the magic wand to get that out of my head. But it's my... it's getting better. A little. Yeah, a little. It has to.

Starting point is 00:35:58 It has to, because now... It's not a life, you know. But it's the hardest part. It's my... it's the part of me that I like the least. Well, because you know, there are a lot of people who live what you life, you know. But it's the hardest part. It's the part of me that I like the least. Because there are a lot of people who live what you live, this conscience of what's on the plate. It's because eating happens all the time. You can stop drinking, you won't see alcohol.

Starting point is 00:36:16 You can stop smoking, you won't see cigarettes. But eating is the reason you can't eat. You can't say, I won't eat. So we're always, I don't mean confronted, but it's always there, you know. You can't say, I won't eat. So we're always, I don't mean confronted, but we're always there. We can't not eat. So it means that it takes up space. That's why it's harder to calm down too. Absolutely. And it's everywhere. I remember when I was doing really extreme diets, to get to the grocery store, not that, not that. I felt like Robocop. No, not good, not good, not good. I had so little choice left to eat just bread, no biscuits, no normal milk, no cheese, no rice, no...

Starting point is 00:36:53 It was quite limited to meat, broccoli, but not all vegetables, no tomatoes, no carrots, there was sugar. You know, it was complicated. Did the look of the others at that time change on you when you were younger? Did you feel valued? It's really you and me. So it's not even related to others? No, some people said it made you feel better. It's true that it happened, but my real pleasure was...

Starting point is 00:37:17 I never took as many selfies as when I was in that private life. I was hot in tits. I have pictures of myself in a bob myself in my mirror at that time. I was like, that's it, yes sir, perfect. But I didn't have a life, and my partner did that too. It wasn't going well. I was just in there, I was just in my head. That's it. I was at home, I showed her that I was doing things. We have a green question.

Starting point is 00:37:40 But when you talk about your partner, the relationship with the other, is that all the time you're in your head, you're not with the other person. Well, yes. As you say, it's everywhere, the food. It's on a trip, let's say you're going to see some sports, you can't eat. You can't be spontaneous, everything has to be prepared. And surprisingly, I found myself so beautiful, it didn't increase my libido either. It was really a thing... It doesn't make me happy, in the end.

Starting point is 00:38:12 It makes me proud, it boosts my ego, but it doesn't make a life full of freedom and fullness. Did you consult for this issue? Yes, in therapy it comes back all the time, I talk about it, but it doesn't get fixed, I think. I can't say it's healed, it's behind me. And when you're on vacation, when you go with your friends, is it still there? When you come to eat, when you're on vacation, do you go? I have passes where I don't care, and I have passes where I'm too pissed off and I want it. It's still the big oscillation.

Starting point is 00:38:42 It's the accordion. It's the accordion. It passes, it comes back. Good days, badion. It's the accordion. It's coming. Good days, bad days. I wish you peace in relation to that. Because it's sure that for the other, also sharing a meal, in love,

Starting point is 00:38:56 without anything. It's intimate, it's erotic. It makes you close. It's sure that your brain is just there. You're wasting time. Are you ready to move on to the yellow level? Yes! It's true, it's going to give me four, please.

Starting point is 00:39:11 But what you just said, it's going to talk to a lot of women, I think, maybe men too, but a lot of women are in that. Say I have a birthday, friends, and we go to the restaurant. Say I'm going to take an entrance, a main course, and they're going to take an entry. That's it. You know, do you want bread? No. Hey, bread, huh? That's my only bread, huh? Bread. But that's it. I tell myself, hey, I feel like I'm a pig. I would just like to take an entry, finally, if we observe, but you know But I see the desire to eat more.

Starting point is 00:39:45 If you're just hungry for an entrance, there's no danger. But when you see that it would also be something else, but it will be an entrance. I see the fight of the other. I find it hard to observe that. It's energy, huh? It's a lot of brain juice. I was at a restaurant with a friend, we were on vacation, and the next day we went back to the same restaurant. And I asked her, what did I eat at lunch? She said, you ate an omelette with fries, a salad. She said, you ate everything. I said, I didn't remember. She said, yes, I saw that. She said, you even took fries for dinner. And I was like, oh, well, lunch, I'm going to take an omelette, but no fries. I was just sitting there, but you understand?

Starting point is 00:40:24 She knew exactly what I had eaten, but she never reproached me for anything. No, it was just that you were stronger. It's just that I said to myself, ok. I ate that, that, that, I saw everything. It's just that you say, this person, she, what we have on the plate, it's always in over-analyze. A challenge, a challenge with food. Yes, that's it, that's it, that's what we talked about afterwards, because said, «Hey, your story has troubled me. » And then I said, «I was eating too much. »

Starting point is 00:40:47 She said, «Hey, it's not related. » It's just that you were asking yourself, «I answered you. » «It's not related to you. » You said, «I don't know if I ate. » She said, «I knew. You can ask me everything. » So it's something in the head, the place it takes. Yes, yes, that's right.

Starting point is 00:41:00 Yellow level, Anne-Elisabeth, what did you not receive from your parents and who missed you? At what point did you take risks in your life? What type of lover are you? What is your biggest complex? I'm going with love. What type of lover are you? I always end up in relationships like a plant that lacks water. I become... Yes, yes, it really makes me bloom. I'm sorry, I speak English all the time. Because it's like you're absorbing your water in the end.

Starting point is 00:41:38 Yes, that's it. I'm... Like you were being watered. A lot. I'm very, very fusionist. I have the taste to live with the other quickly. I have the taste to know everything about the other. Independence, I have a big moon of honey. It's very, very difficult before I take my little life, my little habits. I really like to go into the other person's life. It fascinates me, love. It's the part in my pie, it's the point that excites me the most.

Starting point is 00:42:17 I love my career, I love my friends, but love, nothing like that. I style my relationship, I love... Love is not ordinary for me. It's not like my little chum who goes to the Costco. No, it's big for me. What do you do with your chum? You don't go to the Costco?

Starting point is 00:42:36 Well, in the end, yes, yes, yes, yes. I don't talk about it like that. I understand, I understand. You're not in your daily life. You're in love with a big A. Absolutely. even if that's what we do, even if we go to Ikea like everyone else, there's nothing to... I like to make it very magical. It's really important for me. I like not to take things for granted. I think I'm a good lover, I remember a lot of things, I'm very invested. Well, I made mistakes like everyone else, but I'm on a big pedestal for my love.

Starting point is 00:43:08 And I give. Earlier you said you were in a relationship. It hasn't been that long. I've been talking about it for four years, but it's been a few months. And now, do you say you like to go back into the life of the other, to go back into the life of the other and to go back to that stage of life? Well, yes. I was playing in the theatre in Quebec, and I was welcomed in Quebec. The actor who welcomed me, he had to come to Montreal the same number of weeks he welcomed me. I said, well, take my apartment, I'm going to Montchamp. So I decided to leave my house for five weeks to go and settle in Montchamp

Starting point is 00:43:42 to see what it would be like, to see how we're going to live together. It hasn't been long, but I've taken the ball to the post to go straight to the heart of the heart of everything. I like that. I like that. I think it's fun. But I'm going to go back home, I'm not going to sell. But I jumped on the opportunity. I like to live with the other.

Starting point is 00:44:00 I like to watch the other live too. It's interesting, humans. What did you discover on your chum that you love so much? He's so... everything has its place. He's so organized, tidy. He's so well-raised. I think he's someone extremely... I find it touching. I find it touching, these little things. You know, if I go into his little life, it's been a long time since he was alone.

Starting point is 00:44:27 He gets food, he's got his stuff right away, he puts it in his little closet. I find it wonderful. His little morning walk, his stuff. His little shake, his little snack. I find it great. And you know, Jeannette Bertrand, I often ask this question to Jeannette because she asked it to her guests. What deep needs does she respond to at your place? Security. It calms my anxiety, my fear of abandonment. It doesn't wake up my fear of abandonment, it brings me a lot of fear of being down.

Starting point is 00:45:01 And where does your fear of abandon it come from, apart from abandonment? It's for sure that divorce from my parents, I stayed with my mother, it creates, I know it's cliché, but it's true that it creates a mark of that. I didn't choose good men at the beginning of my life too. I find that I was quickly deceived. Yes, in a period when I was in the idealization of that, of getting rid of the first, first egos, and I, that is to say, I was quickly betrayed, and I normalized the betrayal a lot. I reduced the pain it made me. And it was long before I said, no, I don't want this anymore, it hurts.

Starting point is 00:45:45 So I'm not talking about my old relationship, not Guillaume, it wasn't all about our issues, but before that. So that too left deep wounds. Because I was really too young, I think, to experience the same dramas. Yes, so it could be easy to be afraid. It could wake up that. So he's not going to play in that style. You don't have that fear.

Starting point is 00:46:14 I feel like it's one girl he wanted. He didn't want all of them. He didn't need to have them all at his feet. He wanted one at his taste, and he's with her. I was coming from a trip and there were hoodies, I love my girlfriend. I was on my way back from a trip, and he had these hoodies, I love my girlfriend. And everyone was like, who's wearing that? I was like, my boyfriend would wear that.

Starting point is 00:46:30 And he would be zero shy. And you would be proud. I find that hot. I find that hot. Maybe he would look at me and say, no, I would never wear that. Maybe I'm exaggerating. But it's the impression he gives me. To be unique.

Starting point is 00:46:42 It was mine, and I was his. That's beautiful. For as long as it lasts, after that, it's beautiful. Imagine, in was mine and I was his. That's wonderful. For the time it will last, after that, it's beautiful. Imagine in two weeks, I don't know. No, not at all. But at least when we're in it, we're all there. We do as if it would have always lasted. We're not careful. It doesn't work, it won't work, what do you want?

Starting point is 00:47:00 But we'll do it for real. It will end with a bang. Did you find it difficult to live a breakup when both are known? Disgusting. Yes, really. We didn't have to announce the separation publicly, but at the same time we had announced the relationship so publicly that we were coherent in it. But I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing.

Starting point is 00:47:30 I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. We have checks too. And the comments can be so...

Starting point is 00:47:47 cruel. Yes, I understand. I always knew it was going to be bad for the others. Oh my God. I never saw them together. Oh no, they were my idols. Everything hurts. There's nothing that feels good.

Starting point is 00:47:59 We don't care. We don't care, it's the end of my world. Well, I ask you this question because sometimes I say that, I'm not well. I think it's never good news, a separation. Yes, it can do good to each other, but it's still, you know, that the two are not in a good period. It's rotten to separate, everyone, it's disgusting. That's it, that's why in not doing it there, but in doing it,

Starting point is 00:48:18 precisely, a news, I say to myself, but how do they live that on the other side? Hey, we were in the press, it was in the press more. I scrolled my phone, rupture, Guillaume Pinot, Nezette Bossich. The press? You know, I said, Hollywood PQ, I want to buy. It's not of public interest as much as that. Between a... But it attracts readers. I know, but the press...

Starting point is 00:48:42 I understand, I understand. But But it's like behind you. Yes. And we're on the right track. And it's healed. And I told myself that I'd never talk about a couple in public again. And here we are. But it's so part of life. And I want to be authentic. It's hard to do, I don't talk about it.

Starting point is 00:49:00 It's so part of life. Yes. What do you want? We saw a few weeks ago Sophie Thibault on En directe de l'univers. And Sophie had never officially introduced her partner. And I found that so extraordinary when Dominique Poirier went to sing for her. It was written Dominique, her partner. And? You know, because it's a part of your life, you know, if you keep it as more in retreat, I would like to talk to Sophie about it together now.

Starting point is 00:49:30 It will do you good to learn. I share my life and I love it. Well, talking about your lover, it's what has been sharing your life for years, it's extraordinary. It's inspiring too. But yes, it's nice to talk about love, To hear you say, maybe he would wear that shirt. I would wear it. It's beautiful. So we wish you the best. Well, yes, I wish myself the best too.

Starting point is 00:49:51 And yes. It's fun. My question that I'm going to choose, what is your biggest complex? Give a lot. I talked about my body, which I find which I find a little tyrannical with. I always ask to be more in shape, thinner and all that. But let's say I see with the inside, I don't have much of... I find myself intelligent, but I'm not very cultured. I don't have... You know, I have a C.G.E.P.

Starting point is 00:50:28 and then I studied in theater, I have a Bacc en Jeu. In some very intellectual circles, I can feel a little prickly. There are a lot of things I don't know. And the older you get, the harder it is to learn too. I think I'm not as good at things as I was 40 years ago. It bothers me sometimes. plus c'est dur d'apprendre aussi. Je retiens moins bien les affaires déjà à 40 ans. Ça me gêne des fois. Je connais pas beaucoup l'histoire, je connais pas les grandes guerres, je connais pas, je peux pas beaucoup me prononcer là-dessus. Je suis pas extrêmement politisée. Je m'entoure de gens politisés. Je m'aime prononcer. Je vais avec des gants blancs parce que je suis pas assez sûre de ce que j'avance. Ça me gêne ça. J'aurais aimé ça plus étudié. I go with white gloves because I'm not sure enough about what I'm doing. It bothers me.

Starting point is 00:51:05 I would have liked to have more studies for that. My parents were right. I had a background in history before. Yeah, that's flat. And at that time, how did you react? It was around a time and then... Well, I'm more... We're talking about the complex, but I'm still uncomplexed compared to my complex.

Starting point is 00:51:23 I don't have a of a notion of that. Can you give me a little crash course? Oh, I already said that. But I think it's the attitude to have. And if someone looks at me from above when I say that, I'm not a friend, what do I do with this table? This person who has a problem, it's not you. Absolutely. That's what we understand at some point.

Starting point is 00:51:40 Yes, that's it. You know, there are times that they say, are you like someone who would never intimidated by someone in an interview. Well, no. Because you're the one we know. Exactly. And he can share the other person's knowledge with us. Because he has a lot of things we don't know.

Starting point is 00:51:55 I always say that. That's right. I have my own way of doing things. You have your own way of doing things. You could read a book to him and say, OK, what's the next line? He won't know. That's true.

Starting point is 00:52:03 You know it. But there are people who play with that. There are people who are their only weapon. So it's a pity. But a day less fit can reach you. We're not all... Yes, yes. No, but it's true that when you make people feel that...

Starting point is 00:52:18 I remember in politics at the beginning, some people thought I was there because I was in the joint, while I was in politics before Mario. I always had a support interest for political engagement. That was it for me. It's not necessarily talking about international politics, but engagement. What do you want to change? What action are you willing to take collectively to make the change?

Starting point is 00:52:41 Sometimes, there are people who spoke to me almost in parable. Oh, you're more concrete than that. I was like, OK, you're talking about the world, you know what, nobody will ever understand anything. It seemed that instead of not feeling good, I was shocked. It was like, well, we won't eat together. I mean, I don't understand anything when you talk. But often, too, we say everything that everyone thinks down there. If we don't understand, there's a big chance that a lot of people don't understand. Yes, and you were with an author, I said that in my book. Yes, but I didn't read your book.

Starting point is 00:53:09 Sometimes a book in political science, I don't know who's talking about a business, but it's because if you had read my book, well no, I didn't read it. But it's so many sentences that you could say, you're not feeling well for a few seconds, and that's it. At some point you say, well, I don't need to go eat with that person yet. Oh no, no. But there are people who are good for... if you had read, if you had known, those sentences are... It makes you feel bad, and you have to be careful. So you feel less and less... complexed about that?

Starting point is 00:53:43 Well, at least when I feel like that, I have the words to say it and I understand it. I'm trying to calm down because that happens to me sometimes. I get out of it. I don't dig the hole. I don't force myself, but it means I'm fighting baseball in my mind and I say no. It happened, it's not... We stop it now. That's what you have to do.

Starting point is 00:54:06 And we have the right not to know. But yes. We don't stop learning. We don't stop learning every day. We don't know everything. Red level, my dear. You give me three out of four. I've always liked the opposite too. You know, people who want to learn.

Starting point is 00:54:30 Oh, there's nothing sexier. That's beautiful. Someone who just discovered something that tries to share with someone else. With lots of humanity. You know, in my career, I have the chance to meet older people than me, who taught me, who told me about traps to avoid, you know, who show you paths, shortcuts of life. Yes. Is that beautiful, this world? Instead of saying, I gave you some tips, and you'll

Starting point is 00:55:00 get anywhere, I gave you shortcuts. And I myself learned to go and look for answers for people who have more experience than me. It doesn't bother me, on the contrary. And I find that it's flattering. I don't do it to flatter him, but I have a problem, and I think it's you who could help me. You have so much experience. It's just beneficial for everyone. It's fun to respect people who have more experience than me.

Starting point is 00:55:20 It feels like at 60, 70 years old, the world is dead and there's nothing to say. On the contrary, that's where it happens. We want that. It's fun to respect people who have more experience than anyone else. Sometimes it feels like at 60, 70 years old, the world is dead, and there's nothing to say. On the contrary, that's where it happens. We want that, it's the transmission. The leg. It's the leg. They've learned so much. It's life shortcuts.

Starting point is 00:55:36 Absolutely. You're wasting much less time. You get out of the trap and you're really... Niveau Rouge. What is your biggest insecurity source? What is your relationship with death? Have you already reached the end of your physical or psychological limits? I don't know. Death, you know.

Starting point is 00:56:06 Okay. So what is your relationship with death? My father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's a few years ago. It was a fulgurant. He lost a lot of faculties. He's in CHSLD now. So I think that... It seems like death has entered my life at that moment. He's still there, but we don't have the choice to think about it, because it's a degenerative illness.

Starting point is 00:56:39 So you know you can't play death. That makes you feel extremely powerless, and when you're an active person, it's terrible. I didn't find my way to be in peace, except to be a spokesperson for the Federation, because it gives me a little punch on something. I don't like to think about when my father is going to leave, but I don't like to think that he's going to stay either, to lose everything, until it's all gone.

Starting point is 00:57:07 I'm like, Mané, it's not watchable anymore. It's a funny dance that I do with my mother. It's like I'm sitting in the corner and I'm like, Mané, we're going to have to talk. But before, she wasn't in the room. I didn't think she was there, or she was there, but I didn't see her. Now I know she's there. I don't know yet how to approach her. I don't know what effect there, but I didn't see it. I know she's there. I don't know how to approach her yet.

Starting point is 00:57:28 I don't know what effect it will have on me, because I have a white eye. A part of my eye is already done. My father doesn't recognize me anymore. It's been a long time. He's almost no longer verbal. I don't have a choice but to take it and evolve in it. But when it's going to be true, wow! I don't know how I'm going to react. Sometimes we think that people are emotional, they're going to collapse, and people are going to be strong,

Starting point is 00:57:47 and it's the opposite. I don't know if I'm going to be a pillar, I don't know if I'm going to need a pillar. It's going to surprise me. And also, when I was younger, when I saw older people learning that they had a fatal diagnosis, I thought, oh, I'm older people learning that they had a fatal diagnosis, I thought, at the same time, they did it, you know, young people.

Starting point is 00:58:12 Yes, yes. Not in empathy, I thought, well, they did their thing. And I realized, it's still all we know, life. There are people who cling to it, it's not everyone who approaches death with dignity, because it was scary. There are people who came from the other It's not everyone who approaches death with dignity, because it's scary. There's no one who came to the other side to tell us what it was like. We have theories, we have beliefs, but we don't have certainty.

Starting point is 00:58:32 It's hard for someone who needs control to have certainty. So, it's complex. I consider myself lucky at 40 years old not to have been more confronted with death than that. There are people who face it faster. Yes, it's an incomplete answer, but that's what I'm saying. But what was your father's relationship with death? Absent, not out of the question. He wasn't going there?

Starting point is 00:59:06 No. My father was passionate about his job as an investigator at the SQ. He ate there. When his retirement came, it was like a blow to the face. Okay, now we don't need me anymore. Then the illness quickly came. So we took advantage of that together. We didn't need me anymore. And then the disease quickly came. So we learned to see it together. We didn't have the time. How old was he when he was diagnosed? 62 or 64, I'm mistaken. He was very young.

Starting point is 00:59:33 Yes, very young. 64. Tell me about your white eye. How did you experience it? How did I live through that? Well, it was terrible because we suspected that my father was going to have Alzheimer's because he was hered to see his family doctor to try to get a diagnosis. And she was completely open to that, saying, that's it, you're getting old, we're forgetting things, you're going to get the system. So let's say, we say 64, but it's probably 62 because... He felt it could be that. There were clues.

Starting point is 01:00:21 We were... yeah, yeah, it felt like that. Because if you... doubted it... Especially his wife. I didn't live with her anymore. It's the charm of my cousin, Noel, who is an oenologist. He said, hey, people, it's not going well. And it was him who sent him to see a neurologist. Because family medicine, we don't like it much elsewhere. Because as a spokesperson for the Federation, neurologue parce que la médecine de famille, on l'aime pas beaucoup d'ailleurs. Parce que moi, comme porte-parole de la Fédération, c'est ça qu'on incite les gens à avoir un

Starting point is 01:00:48 diagnostic précoce parce que les choses qu'on peut faire c'est qu'au début de la maladie. Mon père, quand il a eu son diagnostic, je suis allée avec lui voir le neurologue, puis ils font ce que s'appelle le mini mental, des questions de base pour évaluer t'es où dans la maladie. Mon père était comme plus capable de dire triangle. On lui a présenté une image de triangle. We presented her a triangle image. It seemed that everything I had anticipated had happened. The shock... I cried the last two years. I knew it was going to happen.

Starting point is 01:01:18 I knew it was going to happen. My father said, I'm going to heal. It killed me, it killed me that he was going to play the unplayable. And then it went fast, fast, fast. I had the impression that after that I blinked, he didn't recognize me, he didn't recognize himself on the pictures. It went fast. I had big moments, it was a big moment.

Starting point is 01:01:46 I had a moment when I played in Plan B and I played a cop, and I saw him watch the show and didn't know who I was. I think I was two weeks on the run. Screaming in injustice. I don't think that's human, that disease. I don't think that's human, this disease. It doesn't come to my mind. But after that, it's not...

Starting point is 01:02:11 I look at his wife who is so strong. He was the man of his life. I can't... She inspires me. She will see that almost every day, the little contact she can still have with her, she has. As long as there is life, there is no hope, but there is love. I try to hang on to what is there.

Starting point is 01:02:31 A mixture of anger, sadness, acceptance. It's not linear, but there have been plateaus. But now, we are really very advanced, so it's sure that maybe even that there will be... There is the shameful part, which is the relief too, which must be called when things will happen. It's part of my thoughts. At some point it will be, it will maybe be better like that. That's it.

Starting point is 01:02:53 You mean the passage? To death. To death. Yeah. Urgh. No, but it's so scary in Alzheimer's. You know, I think we... I have a tent, I have people, but not parents, you know.

Starting point is 01:03:09 But what you remember... Because I wanted you to talk about the white eye, because there is so much guilt about that. I've heard so many people say, but I don't have a mother anymore, I don't have a father anymore, you know. Serge Denoncourt, at this micro-session. When his mother stopped recognizing him, when she didn't recognize him anymore, he said, well, for me, she died that day.

Starting point is 01:03:31 And she died five years later. And then I stopped, I couldn't see her anymore. And I said, well, but I said, your sister took care of it. He said, yes, yes, otherwise I would have returned to see her. But he said, for me, it was no longer possible. And I said to myself, how people would react when they heard that. But it's his story. I'm not here to judge.

Starting point is 01:03:47 It has relieved a lot of people. To say, well, I live it that way too. There's something hard to hear, but at the same time, it's like a little death too, when the person doesn't recognize you anymore. Yes. I have a friend who went through this, who was a big help to me because, you know, I'm really not good at the last years. I'm forty, my father, you know, he was fifty-five, so he's seventy, so that's six years. Six years ago, I was thirty-four, I was in my big active life, I still am.

Starting point is 01:04:24 It's like if we never do enough, and she said to me, well, you'll see it all the time. I was 34 years old. I was in my big active life. I still am. It's like if you never do enough. She said to me, even if you go see her every day, if your father is still there, I think he would tell you to take advantage of your thirties. I don't think it's in the interest of anyone that you go eat him every noon. I don't think it would be my fault. There's no point in killing her. But it's true, where I'm uncomfortable,

Starting point is 01:04:47 I have his wife, I'm thinking about his wife who's going to see him one day. Serge, he had his sister. But when it's hard on the next year, who knows if he's going to see her, the other one won't go because he's not capable. I don't want to blame people. But it's part of the analytical reflection. There's all that a bit complicated. It's easier when someone is completely committed.

Starting point is 01:05:09 But I wasn't there. I would have had a harder life. I see myself as a lucky woman. Monique, what's her name? She's dedicated to that. It allows me to have some space. I don't have an answer yet. But in fact, it's a great reflection on death.

Starting point is 01:05:32 Yeah. Are you in peace with death? Am I in peace? Not really. It's hard to be in peace. My mother didn't want to die until the end. I remember the doctor came to see us and he asked if we wanted medical help to die. She didn't want to know anything because she was almost no longer talking. She said, no, it's not going to kill me. She was 4 years old when she was beaten. She must have been 3 months alive. She lived 4 years. I remember the doctor came to see us. said, you know, now we're able, it's been a few years since the death of a medical

Starting point is 01:06:08 aid exists, it's a choice of the patient. And she said, we're starting to understand that there are profiles. She clearly said, your mother is not a candidate because she doesn't abdicate. She still believes in life. So I said, we have to stop asking her because every time she asked, it put her in a state of panic, of existential crisis. She really didn't understand at that moment why we didn't stop offering her to die. And yet we saw it, but it's up to you until the end. But it made me think a lot that indeed, medical help, it's not everyone, and we can't force it.

Starting point is 01:06:45 I certainly didn't want to force it, because I would have been like her. I think I have, I don't know if I'm being discreet. Because we're still talking about death. Yes, that's it. It's sure that at the level of the France at some point, it's hard to answer, but when I was watching it, yes, that's it. What you see, you won't see it anymore. You end up with it, maybe. That's it. What you see, you won't see it anymore. You end up with it, maybe. That's it.

Starting point is 01:07:05 And you know, it's funny because on the website of the Quebec Society of Alzheimer's, there is now the tab, A medical to die. It can be part of your reflection when you have your diagnosis. And they said, when we're going to buy that tab, we're going to be submerged in the call. Not so much. It's reassuring to know that it's there for the world that has enough. But it's not everyone who's like, perfect, when I am, let's say, incontinent, we stop that. That's not what it does either.

Starting point is 01:07:31 It's not even working. So after that, when I'm ready to hold a fork, you're done. There's still life. In this case, it's really, it's not black or white. You know, when you arrive at all this discussion on the public square, and you say, well, I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but it's like a tutor who will be named by the person who, at some point, the person will say, when I get there, it will be time to give it to someone. Because there are some who were afraid to say, well, maybe it will happen too quickly.

Starting point is 01:08:00 There was a lot of this discussion, but I think when you get to that point, and you're still conscious, or whatever, it's difficult. But there are some who do it. I've never stopped the medical aid to die, but I've heard extraordinary stories that the person goes into a coma. And it's for sure that if my mother had accepted, I think it would have been easier to have left in peace than to have left in grief. I understand.

Starting point is 01:08:30 It's not easy, but in the case of your father, he's not in the present world anymore. No, but he's still smiling. Sometimes he makes a wink. That's it, he's still there. He's not there, where did he go? It's really... It's a terrible illness. It's also a difficult illness for the loved ones, for the family. Yeah. It's often when you have your diagnosis, you know you're going to be a burden for your entourage too.

Starting point is 01:08:57 Often people live even worse with that than with the idea of losing themselves. Because they know what's next. What did you learn? What does this life challenge bring you? All kinds of things. I didn't really need an electric shock to have an emergency to live. I already had one.

Starting point is 01:09:23 But let's say a little bit more. It goes fast, it passes in a blink of an eye. You have to take risks, you have to venture, you have to live, and then quickly. But there is also the fact... ah, this part is really terrible, but... I still have a mother, of course, but losing a bit of the paternal figure, it was losing a bit of authority, anyway. There's something where I'm... It's terrible. But it gives a little...

Starting point is 01:09:55 I feel more like an adult, not being exactly the daughter of... I... I... You feel more free? I feel more free to be who I am, a little bit. Less in the spectrum of... less in the... Not that my father's way of saying it. It wasn't really my father who told me what to do.

Starting point is 01:10:18 No, no, but I understand so much what you mean. It's something where I belong to a little thing. It's the only positive side, the rest is shit. But at least that gave me that. I assume more like an adult woman. I don't know how to express it otherwise. Well, I think all those who have lived understand you. Yeah, okay.

Starting point is 01:10:38 Yes. It's your home, but yeah, that's it. Well, thank you for all that confidence. That's it. You know, these discussions, often we don't have the right to talk about them. And when we were so generous to talk about them, for those who listen, it feels good. It feels good to see that there is an echo.

Starting point is 01:11:00 It feels good to see, OK, I have... Because I remember I had done an episode on the next-in-line. There are next-in-line people, and we never talk about them. We don't talk about their reality. It's terrible. It's like the Mother's Table, the mother of your father. And Rosemary Charest, who is a psychologist, who was a next-in-line to her husband, the neighbor's helpers, they would talk to us and say, we need to ask for help. Because often the neighbors, since they are the pillar, they feel like they can't ask for help because they are weak. Since they are already someone, they can't help them.

Starting point is 01:11:37 But yes. Yes, they become entirely... Yes. That's it, they don't think about their needs anymore. Exactly. So I think that the environment, sometimes, it can be small gestures, but they give oxygen to these people. Absolutely. Yes. And it's also nice to go visit, let's say, I think of my father, go visit him and still consider that he's among us,

Starting point is 01:11:59 it's good for the next year. Even if it's not for the care, it's just to assume that she's still there. It seems like... because Amani is just alive for real, it seems. To just go see her, at the same time as she is, I think it gives a little... it gives a little stab in the back, too. Small gestures, small things. Small gestures, yeah. Show that we're there. That makes the difference.

Starting point is 01:12:20 We're going completely into another register. It's the levels Eros and Companion. Oh my God. You're going to give register, it's the levels Eros and Compagnie. Oh my God! So you're going to give me four please. It's the kind of interview that I'm going to get out of here and I won't remember at all what I said. I have a switch to ON sometimes, I feel like the barrage is open. I give you four? Yes, you give me four, but it's good, it's good that you don't remember.

Starting point is 01:12:46 I'll remember and give it to you. So, Eros is with us. The first question, are you comfortable with nudity? What would you have liked to know about sexuality at the age of 20? What is your language of love? So, words of encouragement, words of support, service given, gifts touched, or are you comfortable in the sphere of intimacy? I'll go with that. So you choose, what would you have liked to know about sexuality at the age of 20? I didn't think that sexuality was linked to humanity.

Starting point is 01:13:29 It became something very, very special, and very theatrical, or sketch, or outside of me. It was very much in the representation of something. I had an image of what it had to be, of how it had to go, and it was not limited to that. And as you get older, when you can name things that are not so sexy in words, being yourself, laughing during sexuality, it becomes exponential. You know, we always talk about the image of, if you grab a little 20-year-old chicken,

Starting point is 01:14:08 I find ourselves much better at 40 years than at 20 years. We may cry louder with them, we may do more sketches, but we know much less about it. I would have liked to know, allow yourself to be yourself, really communicate, talk. And getting out of your jean, to say that you're embarrassed too.

Starting point is 01:14:28 I think I didn't allow myself a lot of... I would go into a... not a character, but a zone, let's say. The sex zone was completely... It wasn't linked to the emotional connection? Not at all. Okay, so it's more mechanical in some way. Even with a man.

Starting point is 01:14:46 Ok, even in this... Even in a couple, it seems that sex has become the sex. I don't know how to describe it. Well, it's that you didn't have a bond. No. Do you feel like that's what you saw on TV or what you read that influenced you to think like that? Is it a discomfort? that you saw on TV or that you read that influenced you to think like that? Was it a discomfort?

Starting point is 01:15:09 Well, I also think that I was... I had the idea of what the other wanted and what was So I was really far from my pleasure. I didn't really care. My pleasure was your pleasure. It was wanting to be in the other person's eye a good blow. So that means you didn't have as much pleasure as that, you. I wasn't there. Out of the question, again. I wasn't there. I wasn't there in my pleasure. That's it. Let's go there.

Starting point is 01:15:45 You know, an orgasm, let's say. Sometimes, between friends, we say, « Yeah, I think I had one. Yeah, I had one. » When you say « I think »… No. It's not sure you were talking about it. So, for a long time, I thought I was in it. One day, you say, « Oh, okay. Oh, bye. »

Starting point is 01:16:01 No, I don't think anymore. So, when you're not even in the field, you can feel such intense things, it wasn! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non!

Starting point is 01:16:11 Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non!

Starting point is 01:16:19 Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! Non, non, non! on voulait je m'affirmer pas si je changeais d'idée ou si je je voulais pas laisser l'autre à mi-chemin. Hey, le blue ball. Non, je fallait que je me rende au bout. Je pouvais pas. J'étais au service, pis je pensais que c'était, pis je pensais que j'étais libre dans cette

Starting point is 01:16:36 manière-là. Je pensais que c'était ça, faire ça. Je pensais que c'était ça qui était, je pensais que c'était ça en fait. Pis ah, c'est ça, ça a été, ben ça a I thought that was it. And... It was a lot of experience, therapy, discussion, openness, vulnerability. I was like, no, it's more like a big pudding than that. It's a much more fun dance. It's wider. Yes, it's very different from what I thought. And when you knew, that is to say a sexuality connected to you, connected to the heart,

Starting point is 01:17:12 you knew at that moment, that's when you understood that there was something else. But I also understood that it brings the world, that thing. It's strong. It's stronger than the police. It's stronger than anything. When something happens, I'll say in the dark, but it's a matter of being in the dark with someone, there's something quite phenomenal, I don't know, there's something that I got closer to my impudence and my freedom, and it really, really made me feel good. Freedom with your body too? Yes, as much as I can have complexes, as much as a zone in my nose, it has to take hold of you. You don't have to get out of yourself and look at yourself. That's rotten. You have to stay in the moment and...

Starting point is 01:18:06 Are you able to name your desires to the other? Yes, more and more. Well, it still has to be that the other is able to receive it. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's because the emotional communication in a relationship, it's not always the same, either. No, that's it. It's not in the same place as you are. Exactly. You can meet the other's puddles, and you have to respect that. It's not because you're free that you don't have any more puddles. You have to find a playground that pleases everyone,

Starting point is 01:18:34 but you have to talk about it because you can't read it in your head. Although there is a very animal part, there is a part that remains, you have to establish the rules of the game anyway, vocally. So you're comfortable in that sphere. and you have to set the rules of the game, vocally. So you're comfortable in that field. Well, more and more, yes. I wouldn't have thought that at 40, it would be the most powerful, but yes, I find it much more exciting than at 20.

Starting point is 01:19:01 I like it when women talk about sexuality because it also awakens other women. Yes. To say, yes, it continues, sex life is not just a phase of age, it continues and it evolves, and our needs also evolve. Yes, but the clichés also evolve. We have the idea of the woman who is always in the head and who does not want to. And it's been a while since I've known more of a bad-bitten woman than a bad-bitten man. I find that there were women who were much more lacking than men.

Starting point is 01:19:29 I'm not saying that there aren't any men, I'm saying that there are all sorts of stories, but there are also women who don't have what they're looking for, what they're looking for in bed that they dare not name it, what pride has in the male partner. It's not true anymore, this thing, that the girl doesn't like that and that... No, but that's... It's old, this thing. No, but that's... It's old stuff. No, but it was like...

Starting point is 01:19:47 Old idea. Maybe at that time, the woman didn't feel free to name her needs, and she didn't have fun either. There's that. If it wasn't pleasant, she didn't like it. Maybe at that time, the female orgasm wasn't understood that much. Yes, absolutely. but the feminine aspect wasn't understood that much. We did a podcast with Jeannette Bertrand, and she said that at the time, she's 100 years old now, at the time, we had to or had to have a mutual relationship.

Starting point is 01:20:13 There was no question, if it was three times a week, it was on Sunday, that was it. There was no question of desire, of meeting. Exactly, of setting up. No, it's like that. So it's sure that maybe the feminine pleasure was not contented either.

Starting point is 01:20:30 Absolutely. If you don't find pleasure, it can be that you have a headache. Ah, it can be that you find excuses to avoid this duty. It's a task. But it's women like Jeannette, I find. Ah, Jeannette. When the question, what do you feel bad about? More often, I was talking about it at the opening,

Starting point is 01:20:45 she said that what I was being blamed for most often in my life was talking about sexuality. And there's still something about that, it's true. Imagine. And she's still talking about it, all those fears against other generations versus pornography that is accessible, you know, she's still there. She thinks about her grandchildren versus sexuality, it's crazy.

Starting point is 01:21:04 It's incredible. But she still dared to put female sexuality on the screen. On the screen, yes. In an era full of prejudice. Yes. Well, yes. But it changes everything. But for men too, it changes. When the two, whether it's two men or two women, a woman, it doesn't matter.

Starting point is 01:21:21 When the two are good in this sphere, it changes everything. Of course, absolutely. Last question, Optorizo. When you revisit your childhood, what is your most beautiful memory? Oh, my most beautiful memory... What could it be? Well, we really had Christmas bells with the Elargis family. I have an uncle who was very, very devoted, who organized games, who gathered everyone.

Starting point is 01:21:50 We played at the pocket, and there were big tournaments, and he made medals. My cousins, my cousins, I loved them. I remember the Christmas Eve, the wires were touching. I think everyone was there together. We took it seriously. There was a Santa Claus, another Santa Claus dressing uncle. I thought it was beautiful, the energy deployed to make it magical. I'm very grateful for that.

Starting point is 01:22:12 I think of you, my uncle François, who was really making extraordinary Christmas, big parties. It was, yeah, that was really... And the food was finished, and the abundance, it was great. Are you still looking for that when the holidays are coming? What do I say? Are you bored of that? Of course I am. There are really less. It's less...

Starting point is 01:22:35 We don't get 25 people anymore. We are tired. That's true. And there are fewer children around us, the families are fewer. But now it's... I live very playfully. The Christmas tree, the little Christmas trees, the presents, the decorations, I don't enjoy my pleasure at all. I assume my Quetaine side, I completely do. Is it fun to assume your Quetaine side?

Starting point is 01:23:00 Yes, in the first year of the conservatoire in the MEPRI, in Alexis Pue. I'm not afraid anymore. I'm not afraid to laugh at myself. I'm not afraid of these things anymore. I'm not afraid to be a quitter, and it feels good. Would you say that the quarantine is the most beautiful decade of your life so far? Ah, it's not worse than quarantine, yes. I think it's in line to be a lot of fun. But it's okay, we feel better all the time until now. I thought I would never get rid of the twentieth, so much that I found it short. The thirtieth feel better all the time until now. I thought I would never get over the 20s, because I thought it was cool.

Starting point is 01:23:26 The 30s were better, the 40s... Knowing how to accumulate experience, being more empathetic, more human, all of that is better. The more you get from pain, the more you get from experience, the more you are able to understand the other, the deeper the moments are. That's what's so enviable. That's the other, the deeper the moments are. That's what's great about aging.

Starting point is 01:23:45 It's the depth of the experiences. Even if they're not beautiful, they will serve to make them beautiful. Thank you, Anne-Elisabeth Bosset. What a meeting. Thank you. Wow. I said everything. You said everything? It's good. It's my favorite conversations. We should always talk about it. But we take the time.

Starting point is 01:24:03 It's good. It's fun. We take the time to listen to each other. And at the same time, it's an exchange. But I found it extraordinary. And I want to tell people, the question Spaceman is a question Patreon. So it's the people who subscribe to Patreon who will hear your answer. You should subscribe. But yes, the answer is related to spirituality.

Starting point is 01:24:22 So you can go to Patreon if you want to hear the answer from Anne-Elisabeth Bossé. Otherwise, the whole set of games is available on all platforms and for free. I was really looking forward to receiving you, for real. And I'm already looking forward to receiving you for Open Your Game 2. Oh, that will be a pleasure. Yeah, because there are a lot of things that are in the air. In your opinion, there are still things that are happening. Yes, and I feel that the next few years will be very changing too. Sometimes we're on a little... It's quiet, but I have the impression that it's going to move.

Starting point is 01:24:55 So we let it go. Well, thank you again. And thank you all for being there. And we'll see you at the next podcast. Bye-bye everyone.

Ouvre ton jeu avec Marie-Claude Barrette - #105 Anne-Élisabeth Bossé | Ouvre ton jeu avec Marie-Claude Barrette

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