Ouvre ton jeu avec Marie-Claude Barrette - #106 Frédéric Lenoir | Ouvre ton jeu avec Marie-Claude Barrette

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

Frédéric Lenoir s’ouvre, entre autres, sur son enfance, le lien avec son père, sa vision des relations amoureuses et sur son rapport à l'autorité.━━━━━━━━━━━00:00:00 - Introduction00:19:19 - Cartes vertes00:37:23 - Cartes jaunes00:56:38- Cartes rouges01:09:15 - Cartes Eros01:16:41 - Carte Opto-Réseau━━━━━━━━━━━L'épisode est également disponible sur Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts et les plateformes d'écoute en ligne.Vous aimez Ouvre ton jeu? C'est à votre tour d'ouvrir votre jeu avec la version jeu de société. Disponible dès maintenant partout au Québec et au https://www.randolph.ca/produit/ouvre-ton-jeu-fr/?srsltid=AfmBOoo3YkPk-AkJ9iG2D822-C9cYxyRoVXZ8ddfCQG0rwu2_GneuqTT Visitez mon site web : https://www.marie-claude.com et découvrez l'univers enrichissant du MarieClub, pour en apprendre sur l'humain dans tous ses états et visionner les épisodes d'Ouvre ton jeu, une semaine d’avance. ━━━━━━━━━━━ Ouvre ton jeu est présenté par Karine Joncas, la référence en matière de soins pour la peau, disponible dans près de 1000 pharmacies au Québec. Visitez le https://www.karinejoncas.ca et obtenez 15% de rabais avec le code ouvretonjeu15.Grâce à Éros et compagnie et notre niveau rose, obtenez 15% avec le code rose15 au https://www.erosetcompagnie.com/?code=rose15Merci également à Opto-Réseau, nouveau partenaire d'Ouvre ton jeu. Visitez le https://www.opto-reseau.com pour prendre rendez-vous dans l'une de leurs 86 cliniques.

Hello everyone, welcome to Open Your Game. I'm so excited today because the guest we're welcoming is called Frédéric Lenoir. He's a philosopher. I've read a lot of his books. He's someone who taught me a lot about life through his writings. I often say it, but for me, the job I do is a great privilege because to read Frédéric Lenoir and one day to receive him on TV, to receive him twice, three times, to know that when he comes to Montreal, I am told, Frédéric is there, if you ever want to receive him. I find that extraordinary. And then, well, I was no longer on TV TV and I asked him, would you like to participate in the Open Your Game? He said yes. So he will be with us a little later.

He is in Quebec because he is promoting his last book, Marc Orell's dream. And I will talk about it with him, but I also talked about it in one or two episodes of the book, The Power of Joy, which, in my opinion, was really important at one point in my life. Many of you asked me what the name of the book was, of the philosopher. Well, it was The Power of Joy and it's Frédéric Lenoir, who will be with us today, but who will be doing a game, so maybe more personally.

I can't wait to hear it. If you want to come see us on stage, because we're leaving the studio four times in the next few months, then come take a tour. It's fun to see a podcast live on stage. Almost all other podcasts do it it and there are always things that don't happen in the studio. For example, we're going to have a big box, you're going to be able to put your questions, the guest will be able to pick up questions, so I'm going to do the public level and even before the guest arrives, in the first part it's you, because those who

want to participate, to come and answer a question, you also put your names in a box. I'm going to pick up names and during the first 30 minutes, we make express open your game. Each person I pick up, I come to answer a question, has three minutes to answer. And as we have already done, I can tell you that it gives incredible moments. We have even had scenes, ovations standing up for some people who came to answer. There is something with the Open Your Game where we come straight to the heart. So, and then in addition, our partners will be there to watch you. I'm really, really looking forward to it.

We did two experiments with Chantal Lacroix and Pia Métotte last year, and we really lived something. So I'm just going to quickly give you the dates for the next ones, and hurry up. There are still tickets left, but often in the last few weeks, tickets leave quickly. So on May 4, I'm very happy to do it with my friend Maxime Landry. Maxime is, for me, an old man. He's someone who has experienced difficult things quickly in his life, who had to fall on his feet quickly. He's someone who is very autonomous, who makes decisions, and he's made these decisions in advance.

He has now become a producer. So if you want, it's at Brossard, at the club, at Brossard, and it's at 15 o'clock, it's Sundays. So come to the Club du 10-30, 4.30, 15 o'clock, Maxime Landry. Then on the 25th of May,

we go to the audience at the Odyssey, at the Gatineau, sorry, the Odyssey de Gatineau room. I've never been to the Odyssey de Gatineau room. Everyone talks about it. It's always at 3 p.m. It's fun. It's a Sunday at 3 p.m. You go back home for dinner and we'll have fun together.

But my guest is also a friend. It's Lézion. Lézion hasn't done stage for a long time, and now she has accepted to come and open her game in front of you, the audience. So May 25, 15 o'clock, the audience room of Gatineau. On September 14, we go to the Inuit of Saint Eustache, always at 15 o'clock. And there it is Mario Pelletier. I know how much you love him. Every time I'm with him, we have great philosophical discussions. I can't wait to hear him talk. He lost his mother a few years ago, his father, very recently. Also, when Mario becomes an example for several young people, he is also a producer.

I can't wait to hear him talk about his current life, what he's been through, what he learned from that life, so September 14th. And on December 7th, we go to the Octave Creme Azide room in Quebec, and it's Mathieu Dufour. Mathieu Dufour, I've already done him here at Ouvre Ton Jeu, and he says to me, no, if you go on stage, it's not true that I can't do one on stage. But I said, but certainly I just did a few weeks ago the radio with him at rythm FM. Mathieu Dufour, maybe you know him under the name of Matt Duff. He's someone I've known for a few years and I really like his spontaneity, his way of seeing life. So if it's bothering you, I still have the impression that a lot of things are going to happen.

It's happening on December 7, at 3 p.m., Octave Cremasi. And you can find out more at mariclaude.com. And you'll see, we have all the information. You can buy tickets from there. I hope you'll come in large numbers. So, I would like to thank, of course, my team, Caroline Dionne at coordination, David Bourgeois at online, Jonathan Fréchette, the digital creation,

Etienne Lorando to the capture, Jérémie Boucher to social networks. You can watch us on all the streaming platforms. Also, if you want to have it faster, a week in advance, without advertising, so these are paid levels, you go to Patreon, it's really a place where there are a lot of podcasters, where you can see their channel. Or you can also become a member of the Espace Mieux Être Marie-Clobe. There, too, you receive the podcast one week in advance without advertising. Obviously, our partners, we have the Espace Mieux Être Marie-Clobe.

I give you 10% off. If you subscribe annually, you go to mariclaude.com, you go to the website,. We have the space, better to be, Marie-Claude. I offer you 10% discount. If you subscribe annually, you go to marie-claude.com, you enter the Marie-Claude subscription and the promo code CLUB10. Karine Jonquo offers you 15% discount on all your online purchases

with the promo code OUVRETONJEU. 15. And she is also the main partner of Ouvre Ton Jeu sur scène. And she will be there and she wants to pay the people Here is the main partner of the Open Your Game on stage. She will be there and she wants to invite people who will come to attend. So maybe you will have the chance to meet her. We also have Eros and Compagnie who tell us that they have after-sales services. Be careful, take advantage of a quick support for any questions or requests for a warranty on your purchases.

And they also offer you 15% discount with the promo code ROSE15 online only. Optoraiso. So this is the perfect time to get a solar panel for you. Save $75 for the purchase of selected solar glass. And that ends the 31st of May 2025. Optoraiso, you can go do your research. There are about 80 of them across Quebec. These are franchised with a view exam, glasses, glasses, glasses.

So go ahead and do a research of an Optoraiso near you. So with that, we get to our guest. I hope we'll get through. I don't know, I have the impression that we'll learn a lot from him. I hope you'll appreciate what's coming. But I'm very, very proud to receive him. So, place to Frédéric Lenoir. Do you think we can calm jealousy?

I think we can calm it if, again, we work on ourselves. That is, we must be able to have confidence in ourselves and say to yourself that if our paths have to separate, it's not the end of the world. And maybe it can happen, but don't panic about separation, about abandonment. If you have abandonment neuroses, you are very jealous. So you have to have healed all that. You shouldn't have rejective neuroses, abandonment, etc. And then you have to be in this unconditional love,

that is to love the other for himself. And to tell yourself that what matters to me is that he is happy. And so if he is happy by leaving me, well maybe, even if it doesn't make me happy, you have to go to that, you have to have this heart opening. But in fact, it's not easy, because often we still love each other selfishly. because often, we still like it selfishly.

Ouvre ton jeu est présenté par Karine Jonquas, la référence en matière de soins pour la peau, disponible dans près de 1000 pharmacies au Québec, et par le Marie-Claude, qui est un espace consacré aux mieux-être, où on y retrouve plus d'une centaine de classes de maîtres, dirigées par des experts, disponibles, available on maricloud.com. Table games, Open Your Game Original and Couples Edition are available everywhere in Quebec and on randolph.ca. Today, it's more of a typical, rare,

that we receive a philosopher at Open Your Game. It's a lot more than that, but I've known we receive a philosopher at Ouvre ton jeu. It's much more than that, but I knew him as a philosopher. And I often tell you about one of his books called The Power of Joy. It's a book that changed my vision of life and helped me a lot on a personal level. He recently released another book, and he still does. We'll talk about it. He just released Marc Orell's dream, but he's someone who does good. And I was curious to know more about what makes you become a philosopher, what makes you have all these interests.

So I wanted to know more, obviously, about his life. He accepted the invitation. Hello Frédéric. Hello Marie-Claude. I'm happy to have you in the studio here because we did several interviews together. I received you at my shows, we have already done topos together, because the subjects of your books make us feel like they are forcing us to do a certain job on ourselves. I find that through your writings, you make us feel responsible, as humans.

You make us realize that there are things that we don't control, but there are things that we control. And I was talking about it at the beginning, the power of joy. It allowed me to understand that joy was not the emotion of being joyful. It was much deeper than that. And when that light went out, we didn't see life in the same way, and we had to find a way to light up again. So thank you for that. profond que ça pis quand cette lumière-là s'éteignait, on voyait pas la vie de la même manière et fallait trouver une façon de réallumer. Alors, bien merci pour ça. Alors, t'es conscient du bien que tu fais aux autres? Je me rends compte parce que les autres me le disent, en fait. Je passe ma vie à croiser des gens dans la rue et aussi ici à Québec, de gens qui me disent, ben écoutez, je voulais

vous remercier parce que vos livres ont changé ma vie. Chaque fois que j'entends ça, ça me surprend. Je me that, it surprises me. I don't realize it when I write a book, but when I see the number of people who make me this kind of testimony, I think, well, it's better that these books can do good to people. Are you comfortable in the field of talking about yourself on a personal level? Yes, absolutely. I didn't do it at first. When I started writing, I never talked about myself. And then one day I wrote a book called The Little inner life. Where I was talking about a lot of things, about how to overcome failures,

how to face the lack of confidence, etc. And then I said to myself, I can't give moral lessons to people. I have to talk about myself to say in my life how I overcame failures, how I faced such difficulties, how I was able to overcome grief, etc. And so, this is the first time I've talked about myself and it has been a huge success because people have said to themselves, well, someone who will link thought with experience. And so, since then, I've taken the habit of, not all the time,

but when it's necessary, not to be afraid to talk about my personal experiences because for me, philosophy must be embodied. It's an art of living, it's not just concepts, ideas. I try to make an existential philosophy, we could say that the goal is to think better to live better. That's good. Is it, when you write, is it somehow therapeutic for you? Certainly.

Certainly. So I write two types of books. I write essays in which I would say that I also discover what I write. For example, there is a philosopher that I found fascinating but very difficult to read, who is called Spinoza. And I knew I had to dig his work, but it's a big job. I said to myself, well, I'm going to write a book about him. So it will be an opportunity to understand him much better. And so, by writing a book about Spinoza, I learned a lot of fascinating things about Spinoza, and then I allowed millions of people to get to know

Spinoza, who didn't know him, but who knew that there was a hidden treasure. So, already when I wrote a essay, it enriched me. And then the second thing is that I write novels. And through the novels, I think I'm getting more affection, more emotions, more... It's a bit of a catharsis, in fact. So writing is vital for me. I write a book every year, and that's what sets me in balance. It's my joy of living, it's the joy of writing and the joy of transmitting. So really, I found my vocation with writing. Well, if you talk about Spinoza, I don't think it's someone

we would have discovered at this point without you. Because at the beginning, I thought that there was something arid before we started reading it. But it's very hard to read, absolutely. It requires rigor, it requires concentration, and at the same time, I know a lot of people who bought that book. Yes, because I tried to transcribe with simple words, complicated concepts without betraying them. It's all about difficulty, it's like a translation, in the end. And so I said with words from today that people can understand what Spinoza explains with words from the 17th century that we don't understand. But in fact, his philosophy is formidable.

That is, it is of a current, of a modernity. He is the great philosopher of joy, whom you were talking about earlier. And so it's true that I try, in my attempts, to make accessible to everyone concepts that are sometimes difficult and yet so important. And also, you do a lot for young people and meditation. So what I'm trying to do, because it's been a decade since I created an association called SEV,

which means Knowing Being and Living Together, is to do meditation and philosophy with children. Because I am convinced that children 6, 7, 8, 10 years old, in fact, if we start to make them philosophize with happiness, well, it becomes better human beings. They learn to think, to think, to discuss, to argue, to listen to others, to realize that we think better together by confronting our opinions, we become more tolerant.

So it makes them after citizens who are much more enlightened. on pense mieux ensemble en confrontant nos opinions on devient plus tolérant donc ça en fait des après des citoyens qui sont beaucoup plus éclairés et puis quand j'ai commencé à faire des ateliers philo avec les enfants d'ailleurs j'ai commencé au Québec et je me suis rendu compte qu'ils étaient pas attentifs au départ ils étaient agités et énerveux du coup je leur ai fait faire un peu de méditation et deux minutes simplement vous fermez les yeux vous écoutez votre respiration etc ça leur a fait tellement de bien que j'ai généralisé ça maintenant you listen to your breathing, etc. It has done them so much good that I have generalized that. Now, systematically, we do two or three minutes of attention-making practice.

It's a form of meditation, very simple, where children are looking for mental calm before philosophizing, which allows them to be much more present in what they do, because they have had this sass of meditation, and it has had much bigger consequences than I thought, because at first I did that so that they calm calm down and then I would help them simply philosophically. Then I asked the children at the end of the school year, but do you continue to meditate at home?

The two thirds raised their hands, saying yes, I say why. Well, there is one who tells me, for example, when I want to break the figure of my little brother, well, I go to my room, I meditate and then I don't want to do it anymore. So they use this meditation as a completely secular tool. There's nothing spiritual, just as a tool to manage their emotions. I really liked when you said a sass. It's like a transitory step between emotion and posing the gesture. I mean, I'm going to think, I'm going to calm down.

Instead of going to the bathroom, the parents will sometimes say, go to your bedroom and think. And then, suddenly, the children do it voluntarily. They do it themselves. And that's the difference. It's that philosophy, or what I do with the children about meditation and philosophy, is that we give them tools that they use themselves. It's not... Philosophy is not a lesson of morality.

We don't tell them, you have to think like that. They think for themselves. And meditation, they appropriate themselves these tools to be able to achieve calmness, to better manage their emotions, to be able to listen to others. So it's making them autonomous. That's the goal. Wow! I would have loved to see that when I was in school. Yes, me too. And it must also remove...

You know, meditation, there is something in that term sometimes unattainable when you are an adult. How am I going to do that? Stop thinking about it. We have a lot of false concepts of meditation. sometimes unattainable. When we are in the air, how am I going to do this? Stop thinking. We have a lot of false concepts of meditation. So I imagine when it happens quickly in your life, that you talk about, well, it's a way to capture attention, a way to re-center yourself, and all of a sudden we learn that it's meditation. It's like if we learn it without knowing it. And it's something that follows us all our lives. So, this form of meditation in the small ones is a big difference.

Absolutely. And you started in Quebec. Yes, it was the very first experiments. I had actually done them both in France and in Corsica and in Quebec because I came regularly every year. And when I got the idea, I said to myself, well, I know that it exists since the meditation, not the meditation, but the philosophy with the children, it has existed for a long time in Quebec. Since it's Michel Sasseville, who was a professor at the University of Laval,

who, more than 40 years ago, at the beginning of the 90s, introduced the philosophy with the children, and suddenly I looked at the experiences that were made in Quebec Quebec and it enriched me to create this association. Wow. Are you ready to open your game? Let's go. I'll explain, Frédéric. There are the green questions.

You have to know that these questions can come back for several guests, but it mixes the questions, this game, and it's up to you. You'll start again with your game. There are no two games like that. So these questions are generic, the green ones. The yellow ones are more specific. The red ones are personal questions.

The level of eros and companionship is a question of sexual or sensual order. The question of the optorhizo is the last question. It's always this question that makes the game end in a smooth way. And you have a joker. The joker is when you refuse to put it under question. The question, as you will not see it often, you will choose a lot of them. But if you say, OK, that's enough, I don't want to answer these questions anymore. You put the joker and we move on to another question.

So it's your protection. But can I use the joker several times? Ideally not. But if you ever say, I want to use it question. So it's your protection. But can I use the joker several times? Ideally not, but if you ever say I want to use it several times, it's your choice. It's never happened until now. Okay, we'll see. But because we're still in something that seems more like benevolence,

that it's not a hot seat. You understand? We're not there. But sometimes, you see, like, I invited a guest at one point, he still had a sensitivity to his family, clearly. He started to answer, and he saw the rest in his head, and he said, OK, I stop. Because, well, sometimes it's important. It can touch people, of course.

Yes, so we understand. So that's why it gives me protection to ask questions too. Not difficult. So the green level, Frédéric, I'm going to ask you, you put them on the table, you brush them, you're going to give me five cards that you're going to choose. There you go. I'm going to take the time, I'm going to read the questions.

There you go. You're going to choose one question you want to answer, and then I'm going to choose one question you have to répondre. Alors quelle personne a fait une différence dans ta vie? Quand je me regarde dans le miroir je vois. Quel genre d'enfant étais-tu? Quel est ton rapport avec l'autorité? Sur quel trait de caractère as-tu dû travailler? Elles sont toutes intéressantes. Je vais répondre They are all interesting. I will answer, what is your relationship with authority? It's a real problem for me. Because I had an extremely authoritarian father. Who was, I have to say things in truth, who was affectionate,

who was warm, who had love, but very authoritarian. It was a bit like the pater familias, domestic tyrant. You always had to obey him. And if we didn't obey him, we would slap ourselves. So he was quite violent physically. And so I was afraid of my father. Which means that at the same time, we were happy to see him because he was tender and all.

Then all of a sudden he got angry. He was angry. And then I took an incredible number of shenanigans when I was a child. And so after, I always had a relationship of mistrust and authority. I never had a boss, for example. Because for me, the boss is the tyrant.

And so I always did jobs without a boss. So I'm an author, I don't have a boss. Where I'm an entrepreneur, I have my own company, where I create an association, I create it. But I never had a boss above me. And the few rare times it happened, because I worked in a publishing house, it was unbearable. I couldn't stand authority,

because I always felt that authority had a castrator side, a tyrannical side, and by the way, as by chance, the few very hard bosses I could have looked like my father. So unconsciously, we're going to look for what we've known. And so I realized that I had a problem with the authorities, and it's something I worked on in psychotherapy. I really had to do some work on it, and I understood everything that was going on. But in any case, I've a long time problem with the authorities. Is the opposite of that, is that we can become rebels?

Of course, we can become rebels, that is to say that we can do the opposite of what my father wanted. My father wanted me to do political science studies, that I be someone of... So he gave me what is call a paradoxical injunction. Either someone important whom I am proud of, he was a minister, so he was a very important person socially. So either someone important whom I am proud of, but never surpasses me. And so it's not easy. Which means that having received this paradoxical message, well, finally I I had ambition, I wanted to achieve something,

but I didn't have to be in the same field as him, because I didn't have to surpass him. And so, at 20, I went into a monastery. It was a way, finally, to have ambition, but spiritual rather than political. And at the same time, I thought I was completely escaping my father's gaze. And when I went into a monastery, I took the monastic dress and everything, my father told me, I never told you, but when I was young I wanted to be a monk, so I realize through you. That is to say that it was still a way to go to the emirate.

And then I blew my lungs, I had anxiety attacks, I was... And I left, then I left. And so that is to say, to what extent the unconscious is powerful. In fact, we do things, we think we're escaping, but we're still in it, etc. And my father caught me again. Then I took my own path, I was a writer. And the first time I got a good press article in Paris Match, which you must know well,

my father went to get me in his office. He said to me, look, I had four pages in Paris Match, you only had two pages. And so he was in permanent rivalry with me. So you see, it's still a problematic relationship. And so I went out towards the age of 35, 36. I did Goethe-Stahl therapy, and it's a therapy a little emotional. We work on the body, emotions, trauma of the body.

And there I could say, I symbolically killed my father. I got rid of him. I got rid of this look he had on me, this grip he had on me. This influence, huh? It's like living under influence. j'ai symboliquement tué mon père. C'est-à-dire je me suis débarrassé de lui. Je me suis débarrassé de ce regard qu'il avait sur moi, de cette emprise qu'il avait sur moi. Cette influence, hein? C'est comme vivre sous influence. Ah, mais tout à fait, mais beaucoup de gens vivent sous influence. Oui. De leur mère, de leur père, on se rend pas compte. De leurs arrières-grands-parents, quand on fait de la psychogénéalogie, on se rend compte, c'est sur des générations,

on continue de reproduire les mêmes schémas. Et moi, c'est voilà, vers 35-36 ans, je me suis débarrassé de ce schéma paternel. And I, around 35, 36, I got rid of this paternal pattern. How do you feel? How did you know you were getting rid of it? Because my life has completely changed. First of all, I have a very powerful emotional discharge. I really yelled at my father, let me live, etc. So I felt very, very powerful things. And in the months that followed, my life changed. That is to say that I stopped shooting myself in the foot when I started to succeed. I had much less problems in the relationship with the authority.

I felt that something had moved. But in fact, it was necessary to free the memory of the body. And that's what impressed me. It's that in fact, as long as we know things, I would say, by the concepts, it's good. But it's even better when the body actually frees itself from the memory that it had ingrained from what I lived as a child. And how did the relationship with your father evolve from that to that? Well, in fact, much better.

Because I told him, that is to say that when I did all this therapeutic work, I told him all that, he had no conscience. That is to say, he told me, but I did not realize at all, I did not think at all to have impacted in this way. He had no conscience of that. It himself reproduced without a doubt things he had lived. And then at the same time, he was proud of me. That is to say, after I had much more success with my books, etc. There he was proud of me, he said to his friends, here is my son.

I felt that he was no longer in rivalry, to a certain point. Because we were talking about my book on Spinoza. When I released my book on Spinoza, in fact, it was a few months before my father's death. And Paris Match came to see me saying, we would like to make a big portrait of you for your book on Spinoza.

And I said that because what would please me is that you come and meet my father too because he just released a book. At 93 years old, he released a book, a little memory, etc. Nobody was interested because he was more famous. And I told her, it would be nice if she said, it's a very good idea, we're going to make a cross-picture, the father, the son, so they'll see if he lived in Arcachon, there in the south of France.

And there, he starts interviewing us. And right away, my father says, oh, you know, my know, my son, I taught him everything, he owes me everything. And he left again, in front of the media, saying, I am the one who did everything for him, etc. And I said to myself, what a sadness. Finally, when I was making this gesture to open up to him, to bring him something, he had to regain power. He died a few months later.

So I think deep down, he had changed in part, but, he had to regain his power. He died a few months later. So I think that deep down, he had changed in part, but there was still a layer left. It's okay. It saddens me a little, but it was able to reach me the same way as before. Very important what you say. Because you made your own path. Exactly. You weren't demanding that your father...

That he change. Because sometimes in relationships, parent-children, when you take a step, you'd like the parent to understand and change. And you can't make peace because you don't see the change, whereas you managed to do it because you saw your change. That's exactly it. And so I was a little sad, this compassion for him, to tell myself what a shame that he

hasn't completely evolved, but I didn't look for him, I didn't tell him anything, and then that's it. But in any case, he's dead, we were really fighting with each other. It brings me to the question, because I'm going to choose one, what kind of child were you? Because it's funny, you described the situation with your father, and it seems that I would be curious to know how we live in a house where we are not free. So, in fact, I was a child who had a very happy temperament. That is to say that my temperament, my sensitivity, is positive, optimistic, joyful.

I have a lot of humor, I laugh a lot, I make jokes, so I have a happy side. And at the same time, I was a sad child because of the family situation. Since, well, my father, whom I loved a lot because at the same time he was warm, but I was afraid of him. And my mother was crushed by my father and so in fact she did not dare to say anything and she spent her time criticizing my father when he was not there, that she can't stand it anymore, and why she married that man. I was six years old, I heard that, and then what did I do to have children?

Finally, my mother complained all the time, and it was someone who was not warm at all, that is to say that she was cold, she had received a very rigorous Catholic education, where they told her, you must not flatter your children, you must to give them compliments because they will become proud. And then she said, her mother told her, don't touch your children, you will awaken their sexuality. So we were not touched, not caressed, there was no tenderness. My mother loved us, but with coldness in fact. And suddenly between this very authoritarian father and this cold mother, I was unhappy in fact. And so I dreamed when I saw my friends,

that I went to my friends' house, that had parents that I found nice, warm, etc. But I was thinking, I want to change houses. And so, although I have a happy temper, naturally, I was unhappy in this family context. Was it hostile? No, it was not hostile. There was a side, still a little...

Well, we lived in the countryside, in a nice house, with a garden, it was not... There was a side, we lived in the countryside, in a nice house, with a garden, it was very pleasant. My parents had financial means, so I didn't miss anything. On the other hand, it's true that there was an austerity, because my mother had this austerity side in the relationship with the other. And then my father was on the edge, that is to say that he could not eat anything, very little, only cooked vegetables, without sauce and everything.

And my mother hated cooking. So she would put the whole family on a diet. So as a child, I only ate carrots, blettes, and I went to my friends' house to eat fries, pasta, things that children love. And so there was a kind of austerity, which was linked to these two aspects. And then, fortunately, we were four children, we got along very well, which means that we supported each other and that there was a kind of agreement between the children and we

made jokes all the time, in fact. It was a way to express ourselves and I relied a lot on my brothers and sisters to support, I would say, the parental climate, since my parents didn't agree at all, they divorced later. But it was really... Parents weren't made to be together, they each had their big neurosis, which made us a little bit supported, underwent all that. And then, well, everyone did their thing.

But you don't feel much lightness in what you're doing. No, there was no lightness. But I still have it inside. Fortunately. So you bring it. I'm a Gemma, I like movement, lightness. But I still have it inside. So you bring it. I am a Gemma, I like movement, lightness, etc. So I have it, fortunately, in my character. But the family environment was heavy. Do you remember the first place you lived alone, without your parents?

Yes, I lived in a studio at the age of 17. In fact, I couldn't do it anymore. And so, I had livedité un petit studio à Paris et j'étais tellement heureux de quitter. Enfin, cela dit, j'étais déjà seul un peu parce que mes parents partaient en week-end, tous les week-ends, depuis que j'étais enfant en fait. Ils avaient un appartement à Paris puis une maison à la campagne. Quand mon père était nommé ministre, j'avais 10 ans, donc là, il était obligé d'habiter Paris. Et ils partaient tous les week-ends à la maison de campagne. Et moi je restais à Paris. Ce qui fait qu'à 12 ans, je faisais des booms avec mes copains le week-end à Paris, et j'étais très heureux comme ça.

Est-ce qu'elle est enfant d'un ministre, donc d'une personnalité publique, connue, est-ce que ça a changé quelque chose dans ta vie d'enfant? Alors je pense que ce que ça a changé, c'est que je n'accorde aucune importance à la notoriété. C'est-à-dire que parce que je voyais que mon père était connu, qu'il y something in your childhood life? So I think what has changed is that I don't give any importance to notoriety. That is to say, because I saw that my father was famous, that there were plenty of people who were interested in him, the media, and then I saw who he was. I saw very well the gap between the public man that everyone admired. The perception and reality. And the reality of a man full of problems, etc.

Which means that now when I meet famous people, it never impresses me. I know very well that there can be a big gap, for me too, by the way. I always tell people, be careful, I'm not necessarily the person you imagine reading my books. There is always a gap between the image we have and what we are. And so it made me very lucid about human nature. And then the second thing is that, as my father was known, we received a lot of people known at home. I knew very well Jacques Delors, Michel Rocard, a lot of people who were ministers, prime ministers.

And in fact, I was not impressed by notoriety. What makes that in my life after, when I met very famous people, it didn't make me hot or cold. So it took away the character that makes you dream of notoriety, not at all. You were made to feel that way. Exactly. Very quickly. Very quickly. But because when you have a childhood like that, when you are with yourself, you also feel the freedom. Absolutely.

The freedom to be fully. Yes, but that's what I've been looking for through all the therapeutic path I've taken. It's to be free internally. I can't be better because of my unconscious, because of my parental injunctions, etc. And so, I often say, we are not born free, we become free. But we become free through self-work.

Yes, and it comes from the inside. From the inside, from the knowledge of the self, from these unconscious mechanisms. Why do I act like this? Why do I have this reaction? Why does such a boss systematically make me angry? Well, you have to work on yourself. But I find that when you have issues with authority, it often comes from childhood. Of course.

We had a parent who was too authoritarian, very often. Or not at all, on the contrary. So we're always looking, the opposite. So we always look for the opposite. So the yellow level, you're going to brush them like you did earlier, and then you're going to give me four. Four yellow cards. You're going to choose one, and I'm going to choose another one in that level. What was your father's name? Renée.

And then your mother? Elizabeth. And my mother still lives, she's 99 years old. She's going to be 100 years old in June, in a few months. Is she in good health, Elizabeth? So she's in good health, well, after that she can't walk anymore because she fell many times and suddenly she's in a wheelchair, she's in a medical retreat home, but she has her whole head.

And she's still playing very well at the scrabble. Oh yes, and what does she think of your career? She's very proud, my mother. a medical home, but she's got it all in her head. She still plays very well at Scrabble. Oh, yes, and what does she think of your career? She's very proud of my mother. My mother has always been very proud of me. She's not in a rivalry. So she's very proud. She reads all my books.

She asks me every time I go on TV, I have to warn her. Well, she's very proud. Did you feel that she also released your father's authority? Well, she was relieved when my father died. That is to say that they already separated for 6 years. You know, my parents lived together for a very long time,

being extremely unhappy. And they separated, they were 85 years old. That is to say that they waited a very, very long time because they couldn't do it. And then finally, it was the day they separated, that my mother started to breathe, to lead the life she wanted, because she felt submitted to my father, obliged to respond to all his... She was very authoritarian in everyday life, she couldn't do it anymore. And so she

started to breathe, and my father, at that age, he left with another woman. He was much happier with this other woman than with my mother. And they separated at 85 years old. I imagine you didn't expect that at that age. Well, in fact, it happened. It's quite funny, by the way. I'll have to write it down one day because it's quite incredible. My father had a huge heart problem.

He has a section of the aorta, that is, a crack in the aorta. And the doctors called us and said, he has a maximum of 12 hours of life expectancy. we can't operate him at 85 years old, he's going to die in surgery, so we can't do anything. So the four children, we came back to my parents, my father was in the hospital, we went to see him and then he was calm. He said, well, I know I'm going to die, well, that's how it is. And that impressed me, by the way, the serenity he had.

And then we went to bed, it was 4 a.m. And in the morning, at breakfast, we were told he was still alive, we were going to go back to see him. And my mother was very happy. And she said, oh, anyway, he's going to die soon, so we're going to do his funeral mass, so who's going to take care of it? Here, Frédéric, you could read it. We said, but mom, he's not dead yet, you see.

But she was in joy. It was liberation coming. And then my father survived because he did self-hypnosis. That is, my sister is a hypnotherapist. She told him, Dad, visualize the healing of your aorta. And since my father has a huge psychic power, he spent day and night visualizing that his aorta was healing. And after eight days where he was still alive,

the doctors did a scanner again saying, it's incredible, his aorta is healing. we've never seen that. And my father lived for years more. But when my mother realized that my father was not going to die, she had a depression. And suddenly she called me, saying, Frédéric, I know your father has another story, that he has someone else who loves him a lot and all, can you call this person to know if she wants to recover him? And then I call this person who tells me,, I've been waiting for this for years,

and with joy. And I called my father, who said, no, I will never abandon your mother. I said, but dad, she's the one who doesn't want you anymore. And so there I succeeded like that. I served as an intermediary, as a diplomat, so that they finally separate, and then like that they ended up happy with each other. But what a story! What an incredible story! We don't expect that at 85 years old, and especially the way it happened.

You were an important intermediary. Yes, because I thought to myself, well, there's a problem. They want to split up, but they don't dare to do it because of guilt. So there I put my feet in the ground and it went very well. Still something to live with. Yellow level, you choose a question. What is the biggest challenge you have had to overcome in your life? What did you not receive from your parents and what did you miss?

What kind of lover are you? What character trait did your father inherit from you? Well, I will... I hesitate between several. I'll take this one. What you didn't receive from your parents, which you missed. In fact, I didn't trust myself. Because on the one hand, my mother didn't carry us, secure us, touch us. A child, he gains confidence in him because he is carried in the arms of his mother. So he is secured. We give him compliments, we tell him he has value, etc.

So I didn't have that at all. And my father scared me. That is to say that my father terrorized me. Which means that I was greatly lacking trust in myself and that was for almost 30 years a real problem in my life. I was always afraid of being rejected. For example, in my love life, every time I fell in love with a girl, I said to myself,

I must not tell her because I will be rejected. I was afraid of rejection. And I didn't have the chance because one of the first times I dared to say, well, I was 13 or 14 years old, the girl said to me, oh my, I adore you, you are my best friend, but I only like guys of 1.80 meters, I was 1.60 meters tall. And so, I never dared to throw myself in a statement again, because I thought I would be rejected at all costs. This has deeply marked my life,

and it's true that I had to find this confidence in myself other than through my parents, because that's what they couldn't give me. But how do we know that we don't trust ourselves? I'm told all the time that I didn't dare to say... Well, I gave you a very concrete example. Yes, but you knew that it was related to trust. Because sometimes I find that it's not so clear where it comes from.

So I may not have conceptualized that I didn't trust myself. But in any case, concretely, I didn't dare to take risks. I was afraid of being rejected. I was afraid of not being up to it. I... No, no, I really... So I don't know if I was aware of it like that, I was aware of it later in therapy. But since adolescence,

I realized that finally, I didn't dare to go towards things that could be risky, for example, or I was afraid of being judged by others. So that, it really missed me. Do you feel like you adapted a lot to others? Yes, certainly. And suddenly, you're right.

I certainly made a compensation. To be loved, to be recognized, I adapted. To be able to... As I had not been recognized enough, I did not trust myself, I could not say no. And so for a very long time, I remember when I was married,

I married a woman who looked like my father, that is to say, very authoritarian. It's not a coincidence. And I didn't know how to say no. And so I was doing all these caprices, in fact. She was capricious, in addition. She was very pretty, very intelligent. But you adapted again.

I adapted. And so it was necessary to do, there too, all the therapeutic work that I did between 25 and 35 years old, where I had to work on everything we've already mentioned, and on the lack of confidence in me, on the fact that I didn't know how to say no. And it's something that lasts a little longer. Sometimes I realize that I want to please people, a little too much. It's good to please people, but sometimes when it's not fair, well, you have to say no.

But I often have people who ask me for money, friends, etc. I have trouble saying no. And I realize that sometimes it's not fair. So I still have a little work to do on that. Do you accept that people say no? Yes, absolutely. I accept that people say no. It's the other way around that I have trouble.

Well, that's because sometimes, you know, when we have trouble saying no, it seems like we have to say, well, when people say no, what does it do to me? Absolutely. You'il faut se dire, ben quand on dit non, moi, qu'est-ce que ça me fait? Tout à fait. Tu sais, dans le fond, des fois, on est frustrés cinq minutes, quelqu'un vient d'annuler quelque chose qu'on espérait, mais on passe à autre chose. Moi, des fois, je me suis convaincue, ben quand je dis non, ben l'autre, il doit faire la même chose. Tu sais, pour moi, parce que j'ai fait beaucoup d'émissions.

J'ai parlé de ça souvent, tu sais, quand on dit non, quand on dit oui, mais dans le fond, on sait que c'est non's no, to what extent it's heavy to carry this over-adaptation to the other. And finally, which is not beneficial for anyone, but at the same time, it's true that it's hard to say no. And then I have a friend, Marcia Pilote, who taught me a sentence that I often repeat, it's, you answer, it doesn't suit me. And now that's what I answer. Yes, it's a way of saying no that explains. Yes, without having to say a lie, because sometimes there are white lies.

Yes, that's true. No, but... Because I have such a problem, currently, yes, all the same. Exactly, exactly. But it remains that, no matter what, we have studies, we don't have the ability to say no, it's still difficult in life. But you know, now we're talking about, because we often talk about what I missed as a child, etc. and everything, really, for 90%, I'm not in it anymore. That is to say that I was very impacted by all this, but it was also luck,. All these worries, these emotional problems, this lack of trust,

it was the engine of my existence. And if I became what I became, that I have the chance to write books, that these books can touch a lot of people and that I have a life, I am very happy, it is because there was all of this too. And so I don't regret anything, in fact. And it's one day at 40 years old, I said to myself, but deep down, if you had to relive everything you've lived to get there,

would you be ready to do it again? I said yes. Although I suffered a lot, I had a lot of very painful moments and everything. I said to myself, well, finally, it was what allowed me to overcome the problems, to fight, to do psychotherapy, to get to know myself, to get interested in philosophy, in spirituality.

Maybe I would never have been interested in philosophy or spirituality if everything had been fine in my childhood, if I hadn't had any problems, if I had been very lucky with women as a teenager. It was the opposite. And so it was an engine to go and look elsewhere for something that would finally allow me to affirm myself, to flourish. So you know, everything is fine. But it gives meaning to the rest of life. You know, we're always looking for meaning in life, but our childhood is still a pillar of the future. Absolutely. But there are people who say, oh, I regret that they're in the wrong. Not me at all.

I mean, it's not an easy path. There are worse paths. There are people who have suffered from inc Me, not at all. That is to say that it was a not easy path. There are worse paths. There are people who have suffered incest, rapes and everything. Me, not at all. But it was a path that was still painful psychologically. But I regret nothing. Because it is through this a little chaotic path that finally I built myself well internally.

And you know, I had a dream when I was 36 years old, just before doing this Gochtal therapy that I talked about, which changed a lot of things for me. Was it a group therapy or was it a group therapy? Yes, a group therapy. We were about twenty people with two therapists. Very strong, very emotional. We played roles, you know, everyone played the role of the father at the same time. And so I really had a very strong change with it. I did that for three years, you see, once a month, on weekends,

so it's a big job. Oh, really? A very big job. And if you want, just before doing this therapy, I had a dream, and at that time I wasn't doing well in my life, it was really the most critical period. And I didn't succeed professionally, unfortunately, I had divorced, I wasn't doing well. And then, a dream happened in which I saw that I was in a train,

and my father was driving the train, it was a steam train with coal, and he was with sweat everywhere, and then he was driving, and I was putting a train and my father was driving it, it was a steam train with coal. And he was with sweat everywhere and he was driving and I was putting the coal in. I was at my father's service, I was putting the coal in. And I felt that the train was going to take off, that it was chaotic, dangerous, I was in great insecurity. And then at some point I see a small train of quiet suburbs that doubles us and I see someone that I admired, because I envied, one could even say, he was a friend who was running a department of philosophy and spirituality

in a big publishing house, he was balanced in his professional life, in his couple life and everything, and I thought, what would I like to be like him? And then I feel the comparison and I say to myself, but I'm so bad. And then the dream suddenly transforms, my father disappeared, and I'm on the wheel, at the command of a high-speed train, a TGV. And then it's crazy, I feel like we're driving super fast. I'm in total safety.

There are sand dunes everywhere, it's beautiful. And so I double the train with my boyfriend. And then I talk a little and I say to him, excuse me, you're late. You see, because I'm going much faster than him. And at that moment, I get to him a little bit and I say to him, excuse me, you're late. You see, because I'm going to be much faster than him. And at that moment, I arrive at the station and then the dream changes. And there I'm going to have dinner with a friend

at this man's place. And she tells me at the end, I think he's jealous of your success. And all that, it's a really premonitory dream, because all that came true later. I started to have a lot of success, this person became a little jealous of me. And so it's a real premonitory, because all of this is realized then. I started to have a lot of success. This person became a little jealous of me. Finally, and so it's a real premonitory dream, but it shows that if there wasn't

my father at the beginning, this chaotic path, etc., I might never have become this TGV that moves very quickly with joy, serenity, etc. And so, in fact, this dream announced what was going to become my life. That is, I started from something chaotic, and gradually, well, I built a cosmos, that is to say, something orderly, harmonious, in which I feel very well. Something that is you. Who am I exactly? So everything is fine.

Well yes, everything is fine, but you have to be aware of it, that we can go and often look for what we haven't received. You know, there is an expression that says, we can't for what we haven't received. You know, there's an expression that says, we can't give what we haven't had, but we can also go and look for what we haven't had. You know, we have this responsibility, or at a certain moment, if we want things to stop repeating.

The question I want to ask you is, what type of lover are you? Ah, it's complicated. It's complicated because I've known everything. I've known, I was married, totally faithful and everything, I was unhappy. I've done everything, actually. Very quickly, I can suffocate because I'm in something a little paradoxical.

At the same time, I'm going to look for people who are very loving, because I need affection, I need tenderness, so I'm going to look for people who can be a little fused and at the same time I suffocate. Because, as my father wanted to possess me, etc. and everything, I can't stand the other possessing me. So I need to keep my freedom. And so this paradox makes my love life very complicated for a long time because on the one hand I'm looking for people who love me a lot, who are very affectionate, very tender,

and then very quickly I suffocate, I need freedom. And so I've known everything, I've known polyamory, I've known the fact of leaving people after two years because I was going to look for something else. And today, it's been ten years since I've been with the same person. And deep down, what we like very much is that we live together a week out of two. So I don't suffocate. So you have your house, you have your own place of residence. We have our place of residence.

We have our place of residence and we are together for a week or two. And so we are together, we are delighted to be together. And then every time, and I also think we are very independent, I am happy to be found. And then I travel, I have an apartment because we are together, it's not quite that, we are together in Corsica where I have a house. She lives on the spot and I find her for a week or two. A week or two, I am in Paris, I travel to Canada, everywhere. on And so, I have my freedom, and at the same time, I have this anchor, I would say, of a deep, lasting relationship, in which we can go far in trust, in love, etc. Is it when the other person gives that freedom, do we need it less, knowing that it is there?

Of course. It's when the other person is jealous and says, I don't want to, call me all the time. That's when we can't do it anymore. And so, I don't support being controlled. I don't support being asked questions. And so, effectively, the solution is to find someone who gives you your freedom. And so, in the end, you don't want to abuse it. You're saying it's polyamorous.

Yes. It intrigues me, anyway. Why? Because it's something that I wonder how, first of all, how polyamory is installed. Is it a deliberate choice where, for example, you're with someone and then you realize that it could expand? Did you know before that you could have several people you love at the same time? In fact, I think we have a big heart to love several people. I've already lived it, and I've been in love with several people,

with two or even three people at the same time. And when I say in love, it's in love. It's not just one person I'm in love with and then sexual stories next door. So I know we can love several people. In the same way that we can love several children. We're not going to say, well, no, I love one, I can in love with, and sexual stories next door. So I know we can love several people. In the same way we can love several children. We're not going to say, well no, I have one, I can't love the others. Or we can love several animals, I love my dog, I don't love my cat, no. We can love several people at different moments of their lives too.

But you say, at the same time. It's possible. I'm convinced. On the other hand, it's complicated. It's complicated because each person has to have no jealousy. That is to say that from the moment there is jealousy, there is insecurity. Because jealousy is insecurity. And if we think that because there is another one, I will be abandoned, and that we are in competition, it will never work.

So it can only work with people, first in transparency, there must not be a lie, you have to say, here I like another person. And at the same time, each person has to be good with that. And it's very rare, it's extremely hard to find. So I've been in polyamorous relationships, in which there was one that was good, but the other one wasn't. And who said, well, I hope that one day you will leave the other. So finally, the big difficulty is that there is a contract,

at two or three, that can work for everyone. And that's very hard to find, because you have to be at about the same level of conscience in love life, you have to work on yourself, it's not easy. Otherwise, there is one who dominates, and then the others suffer. And that's what you have to avoid.

And then there are types of polyamory that live from other people, or it's more of libertinism, that is to say that we have a lot of relationships at the same time, but it's not necessarily something that lasts. It's something else, you see, it's not polyamory. It's freedom to see right from left. Well, you can live with that. But polyamory is more demanding if there's love.

When you first felt that you liked two people at the same time, you still have to tell the other. I did it because I'm afraid of lying. So I think that after we lie, we're in pain, we have to hide it, the other. So I did it because I'm afraid to lie. So I think that after we lie, we're in trouble, we have to hide our agenda. So I did it, and I know I told someone,

well, I'm already with someone, but you touch me a lot, etc. And then I warned the other person that I had another date and it went well. Yes, because there is a risk. There is a risk of losing the other, absolutely. You can lose both at the same time. Both at the same time. In transparent times.

Absolutely. So in that time, but it went up a long time ago, at that time, actually, I had a certain time, two people who accepted the situation. And then after a certain time, there is one of the two people who has let go. So here it is, it's each one must keep his freedom to say yes or no until the end. But I like it when you say we have this capacity. Because I think that, as I have met some people, I am curious about that, but especially curious, not just curious, but to want to tell people that it exists.

Because I think sometimes we can ask ourselves questions, and if we don't have a model, we wonder if it's normal to see that, yes, it can work. It opens up possibilities too. I think that today, all the cards are broken, you see. All the cards are broken in love life. And that the diagrams we've known, which were the classic diagram, that we must be with one person all the time, never cheat on the other person. So, as we can not often prevent ourselves from cheating, we will lie. All these diagrams, I believe, are completely broken down and we are in search of other

modes, other modes of relationship in which we can both last in the relationship while being able to renew the relationship, while being able to keep a part of freedom. So, everyone must find from these new ways of relationships, what suits them. Not to lock yourself in one... In one scheme. Yes, that's it. Which is monogamous or polyamorous.

I mean, you must not lock yourself in a scheme. And especially things can evolve. At one point, and I lived in my life, at one point you can be totally monogamous, well, in there, at another moment you can be, on the contrary, to need polyamorous, other moments of freedom and other moments to live things as I live a little at the moment, that is to be engaged with a person while breathing and so each, I mean, each one must find at the moment of his life

where he is finally the type of relationship that is the most just for him and for the other. I think it takes a form of courage. In any case, lucidity. Yes, to face it. I mean, can you break the other by talking to him about that? Of course. You have to be frank from the start of the relationship. You must not say, I have friends, friends who will meet someone and say, I am totally faithful, whereas they are not at all from the start.

They will lie to the other to seduce the other and then after two years, they will admit that this is it. And so I think that from the start you have to be frank. You have to say what you are, how you work, what you expect from the relationship, how you can manage it. And then the other says yes or no. And so sometimes it happened to me, I remember at the time when I was polyamorous,

to meet a wonderful girl, to say, but I already have someone, and she left in the process. And so I did not lie, because otherwise, I could have won her over, but after all, I would have been in the lie. And that's what you have to avoid. You have to be honest from the start. When you told others, your relatives,

that you were polyamorous, did it inspire people? Well, let's say that I never talked about it so publicly at the time, because if I had talked about it publicly, people would have misunderstood it very badly. Because we are still, the mentalities are still not at all ready to hear that. So, at the time I was living that, I didn't talk about it, actually. Now I can talk about it because it's rather from the past, but I would say that it's something where most people are not ready to hear what this

discourse is about, because the vast majority of people are still in a classic scheme, even if they have a hard time living it. Yes, where there is a classic scheme with infidelity. Yes, that's what I'm saying, they have a hard time living it, but they are still in a classic scheme. It means that they are in a classic scheme and then they lie and so on. And so I believe that the majority of people are not ready to open their minds to other forms of relationships that can be judged. So we can say, well, in fact, it's not serious, it's not deep, while yes, I believe once again that it's not simple.

No, because it's not easy for everyone to be well. I've known polyamorous people and I have a couple in mind where one of the people was making sacrifices. Yes, but that's what I was saying. To stay in the relationship. That's what I was saying. There is often one who suffers from the relationship and who is not happy in this type of relationship. It's the big difficulty, everyone really has to adhere to that. Yes, as if it takes a lot of transparency and self-confidence.

Absolutely. Confidence in yourself, confidence in others, transparency. So it's demanding, in fact. Yes, you shouldn't do it at all costs. Certainly not, no. Because that's where it can hurt. About the red level, you only have four, you choose three, there are four, and you will answer only single question at that level. I will not choose any more.

Is it going well? Yes, it's going well. I love the discussion. Have you neglected certain aspects of your life? What is faith? What is your biggest insecurity source? We only answer one. I like what is faith. source d'insécurité? On ne répond qu'à une seule. J'aime bien qu'est-ce que la foi.

Oui. C'est la première fois que j'ai cette question parce que je crois qu'elle te ressemblait. Oui, tout à fait. En fait, pour moi, la foi, c'est essentiellement la foi dans la vie. C'est-à-dire finalement avoir confiance, une confiance fondamentale dans le fait que les choses sont bonnes. Et ça, c'est's something, for example, I just released a book on stoicism, it's the foundation of stoic philosophy. It's to believe, and this is a form of faith, that everything is ordered by a superior intelligence called the logos, which does everything for the best so that things, even if there are evil, even if there is sadness, even if there is violence, but that everything

is the best possible in the end for the history of humanity. And so that indeed despite all appearances, I have a fairly strong faith in life. That is to say that deep down, when I look at the beauty of the world, when I look at the ecosystems, harmony, the starry sky, I tell myself that it can't be a coincidence that all this happened. And so there is a benevolent intelligence that wanted this world, and after that it is the human being that introduced misfortune, that introduced disharmony, that introduced violence, domination, etc. But I have faith in life, in fact.

I have faith in this cosmic order that surpasses us. And it helped me a lot. That is to say that I realized that in moments of great sadness, of discouragement, etc. I always think that there is an aid, a support that will be there. And I lived it. That is to say that I had several times I almost died and it's almost a miracle that I'm still alive.

There are circumstances. Accidents, illnesses. Everything. I had, but I'll give you an example. I was in India, I was 20 years old and I know for six months I walked, I was like that to the discovery of India with a backpack and I was in a place on a beach in the south, in Kerala and there I rented a small bungalow with a roof in torches for a few nights. And in the middle of the night, at some point, I have a fear that strikes me, so I wake up.

So much that I am anxious, I can't sleep anymore. And a force pushes me out of the house. But an irrational force. I go out, I sleep, I breathe, I do yoga, etc. And then I feel that at some point the anxiety calms down, I come back to the tent, and I had a flashlight. And there I see that while I was leaving, there was a piece of the roof that was torched, that had fallen, there was a venomous snake nest that had fallen on the bed. And I went to get the guy who had rented the house, he looked at it and said,

Oh, they're deadly snakes. That is to say, if I had not been warned of this danger, I would be dead. And so there, things like that, I lived four or five times in my life. Incredible things. Where I say to myself, but a superior force protected me. Or my unconscious, I don't know. But, and so I believe that, here we are accompanied. There is a benevolent force that accompanies us, that warns us, that sometimes protects us

and then supports us in the most difficult moments. You know this Brazilian story that I like a lot. It's someone who dies and then he sees his life again and he sees that he walks a little and he sees his steps on the sand, and then he's with God, so he says, well, at some point, there are always the two steps, and then he sees that there is only one step left, and he says, well, at that moment, God, you see, there, the most difficult moment of my life, you left me alone, and he says, well no, it's me who carried you.

And so, I believe that. I believe that in the most difficult moments, there is support that can come from within, help us overcome all the challenges. I believe that every human being can always be supported in the worst of the challenges. But that's something, I haven't lived the worst of the worst, there are people who have lived torture, etc.

But I would say that I really believe in this benevolence, in this goodness of the world, and that we can connect, whatever name we give it, there are people who call it God, they call it the Logos, etc. to this higher force that can help us. Do you feel that the people who die

come to help us? Yes, so I also believe that our deaths continue to exist because you talk about faith, what is faith? Well, I have faith in this higher force that supports us. I also have faith in the eternity of the soul. I mean, I don't believe at all that we are mortal. And I've had, sometimes, contacts with people who are dead, including my father, who contacted me.

I had via, once I went to see a person to heal me, because I had a knee that I could no longer walk. So the person magnetized me and then suddenly she said to me, who is Louis? I said, well Louis was my father. She said to me, but he's here. I said, well, how is he here? He died 15 years ago. And then he spoke to me and for half an hour he told a lot of things about his life that the person could not know.

He told me a lot of things about my life to enlighten me, to help me and everything. So I think that yes, our dead people are with us and that there are invisible beings who are with us. Do you have the impression that they also give us signs of their presence? There may be signs of our presence, it can happen. We sometimes hear stories, I haven't had any particularly,, but stories of people who feel quite disturbing clues. We open a book, we come across a first name, well, there are things like that. There are what we call synchronicities. You know I did a book on Jung.

Jung is the great Swiss psychoanalyst who invented the theory of synchronicity by saying that these are two events that are not brought met by causality, but by meaning. And so, for example, I think of a friend I haven't seen for 20 years, the phone rings and he's the one calling. And that, when it happens, it's something to live with. It's very powerful. Synchronicity is very powerful, it's true. And so, I have lived, yes, in my life, a lot of synchronicity,

and then all his envy, things, we say to ourselves, but what a disturbing coincidence. And the friend can send us little messages like that through synchronicity. So you have to be sensitive to that too. You have to listen. Yes. But you shouldn't go either. So there are two extremes for me.

People who are sensitive to nothing, who are not receptive to the signs, to the messages that life can send, to the invisible, etc. Then the other way around, there are people who are too much in there. And I know people who see signs everywhere. That is to say, all the time they say, look at the license plate, the car plate, it's my birth date, and look here, look there. And there, there may be a little bit of a delirium, huh, in which we see signs everywhere, we see the invisible everywhere.

To take up space. Yeah, and it can really be a form of mental illness. So I think we have to be careful, we have to be rational, we have to always keep our feet on the ground, and then, from time to time, recognize that there are things that are disturbing. Yes, that's it, because it's true that you have to be completely closed, because I always tell people that they talk to me about signs, because I really like these little signs, these moments of synchronicity,

there are some who are skeptical, but I tell them, if it does us good, from then on, what is your power? We don't ask people to believe it or not. It's something that feels alive. Absolutely. When it happens. Absolutely. And if we have this sensitivity,

it helps us, it enlightens us. Otherwise, we pass by and it's probably not serious. That's it, it's not serious. But synchronicity, however, it enlightens us, otherwise we pass by and it's maybe not that bad. That's right, it's not that bad, but synchronicity does awaken something. Just thinking about someone who calls us, it seems like it happens. We all lived, I think, a moment of synchronicity. Absolutely, I lived a lot of it. And sometimes we can live synchronicities, for example, through this. When you draw cards like that, by chance, you will draw the card which is the most in line with what you think, with something that lives in you.

I know that at one point, it's been a very long time since I did that, I was doing the yi king, you know, it's a Chinese oracle. Up to a wife. It's a baguette, you know, you draw the baguettes or you throw coins and then you have 64 cards and you're going to draw a card, you ask a question, and the act answers. But what's extraordinary is that you throw coins randomly, and the card always answers your question incredibly well.

So there is a synchronicity between the question you ask, the coins you're going to throw, by chance, in quotes, and the answer. And so you say to yourself, how is that... Because it could answer completely side by side, if you want. There are 64 possible answers. Well, I've always noticed that the card responds very well to your question when you throw pieces or you throw sticks randomly. What's the name of this art?

It's called the yicking. The yicking? And Jung, the psychoanalyst, there, he was yicking for his patients. Because he saw that it was an absolutely extraordinary synchronized tool. Le yicking. Le yicking. Et Jung, le psychanalyste, il tirait le yicking pour ses patients parce qu'il a vu que c'était un outil de synchronicité absolument extraordinaire. Et lui, il nous raconte aussi… A James South? Non, non, mais c'est… il raconte cette histoire où il voit un jour une patiente

qui lui dit qu'elle a rêvé d'un scarabé doré et au moment où elle dit ça, il y a un scarabé qui vient se poser sur le bureau, qui rentre par la fenêtre, qui se pose sur le bureau, tu vois? C'est ça les synchronicités. C'est fascinant. And when you say that, there's a scarab that comes down on the desk, that goes through the window, that goes down on the desk, you see? That's synchronicity. It's fascinating, synchronicity. It's because I believe there's an invisible world that envelops us. Yes. And we don't see it, but it's present in a thousand ways.

Are there moments when your faith, not shut down, but decreases, is not in bed? Not so much. Since I was a child, I've always had this deep faith that life was good and that there was something that was beyond us. That never left me. Then there are times in my life where I take a lot more time to pray, meditate, contemplate, thank others, and much less. So it's rather that I practice my faith less, if you want, I feed it less. And then there are times when I feed it a lot more, where I suffer a lot more in times when I pray, where I read spiritual books, I take contemplation times in front of the I have the chance to live in Corsica, in front of the sea, I have moments like that where I feed

my faith by contemplating and thanking for the beauty of the world. And for some time, I do it less. Because you take the time. You have to take the time, because otherwise you are always caught up in the action. And I know that's one of my problems, you see, I do a lot of things, I always have projects, ideas, I am very active. I just created the House of Wisdom, you see, it's a philosophy school that is partly in the present, partly online, so people can follow courses of philosophy, etc.

So I always have ideas to transmit philosophy more, to write new books, make films, I'm on a series, and so I have to get to say stop. And the big difficulty, indeed, is to say stop, take the time to live, take the time to savour, take the time to rest. And that's my permanent struggle at the moment. Yes, because there is a whirlwind. To get out of this whirlwind. And when you succeed, what you do, you have more and more proposals.

And how to say no when we just tell you we would like you to write a series for a big platform, etc. It's exciting. But sometimes we don't have the time and suddenly I have to say to myself, I have to make choices, I have to write less, I have to... And that's it, it's a bit my current fight, it's to say no, we were talking about it earlier, to wonderful proposals. Because enthusiasm is also at the helm at some point.

The joy of doing things that I like. Because it goes back a lot. Doing things that I like and being useful. That is to. To do things that I like and to be useful. That is to do things that I know can have an impact. So it also happens to Frédéric Lenoir to question time. Time, exactly. To savour this life.

And to take the time to live a little more. But personally, I feel like I'm a big challenge right now too. It's true, well yes, you don't stop. To get out of the whirlpool, you know, because there are a lot of interesting things that light me up. It's like a bit of choosing to say, I'm going to take some time to go for a walk in nature, to breathe. And it's often the last choice, because I tell myself, I'll do it later.

I think we're a lot like that. And at the same time, that's what makes us stay balanced. It's so... it's not easy to live in this way. No, it's not easy to learn to live. To learn to live. But you have to relearn it, in fact, you have to repeat it often. Pink level, that's it, the eros and companions level. We've already talked a lot.

That's it. You see... well, in fact, I'm going to let you hug it. You see, well, I'll let you take a look. You're going to give me four. You must have five. You give me four, you choose one. So, there you go. What place do you give to emotional intimacy in your relationship? What would you have liked to know about sexuality at the age of 20? Is sexuality a taboo subject in your family?

Are you comfortable in the sphere of intimacy? You chose one. We've already talked a lot about the past. Yes, well, are you comfortable in the sphere of intimacy? Yes, I mean, I need intimacy, I need warm relationships. I am very comfortable in sexuality, but I need to live it, as I said earlier, in something real, in a built relationship, in a relationship where there is also spirituality, complicity, etc. So yes, after I had stories, it happened to me to have stories like that one day.

But it's not interesting, if you want. It doesn't feed you. It doesn't feed me. So we can have impulses, desires, desires, sometimes we resist, sometimes we don't resist. But that's not what made me happier, that's not what made the others the happiest. So really what is most important is to have a deep relationship in which we can flourish our sexuality and in which there is an emotional, intellectual and spiritual connection. For me, it's very important. That is, that we look in the same direction.

You have to feel it in the other person. In the other person. Yes, that we are in tune. You see, that we are in tune. Besides, it's funny because my friend, she's had it for ten years, she wrote a book called The Four Accords of the Couples, if you will. And he says the first accord is biology. We need to have common biological things. You know, pheromones, etc. The attraction of the bodies.

The second thing is psychology. We need to have complementary neuroses, or that we have evolved enough to agree on a psychological level. The third is culture. We need to have common tastes, we like the same things about music, theater, and the same things about the same things about the same things about the same, a job on your own, you're not going to agree with each other for a long time. And so it's true that there are these different agreements, which are very important, and I think that when we are more or less aligned in all these areas, it can last a long time and it allows the relationship can die faster if it is based on it.

It's because sexuality is still... This zone of intimacy is already an important zone of the couple. And if all this zone is based only on sexuality, do you feel that the more life evolves, the more time moves forward, the more it becomes stifled, this zone, the more the pillars are solid? Well, I think so. So, the pillar that is the most complicated is sexuality, because in a relationship of couple, it can be used a little bit, sexuality. And so that's why you have to find recipes so that you can renew the creativity of the couple.

The solution is not to be all the time with the same person, that is to be able to not be fused, because otherwise there is a suffocation. But everyone can find different solutions to make sexuality last in the couple. After the rest, it only makes you grow. That is, when we get along culturally, by force of doing things together, we look more and more on the psychological level, we get better and better, and then on the spiritual level, when we have the same desire to move forward in life, to improve, to seek the meaning of life and everything, we progress together. So that, yes, that makes it go deeper. But you know, there are three words in Greek to talk about love, it's eros, philia, agape. Eros is sexual desire. Philia is friendship, complicity.

And agape is unconditional love. I think that for a relationship to work well, you need the three dimensions. It has to work well. You have to do what it takes for eros to work well. It has to be friendship between partners. It has to be true friendship, true complicity. Our partner has to be our best friend.

And then there must be unconditional love that makes us love the other person for himself and not only for what he brings us, and that we can forgive him. And so that's the essential dimension. So it's also a love that we don't always question for the slightest thing. The slightest thing or serious things.

But we can make mistakes, and we must learn to forgive ourselves. It's important. It seems like we're talking less about the latter. Maybe. Because unconditional love seems like we're going to give less to couples. That's it. It will be more for our children.

For our children. For our little children. And we will forgive our children for the stupidity they do, but not for their spouse. Why? Because we're insecure. And so because we're insecure, we are afraid that the other, because maybe he has a bond, he abandons us, etc. And so we are in jealousy. But jealousy is a pathology, it is not normal.

That is to say that if we are really good with ourselves, if we are at peace with ourselves, if we are aware of ourselves, we are not jealous. After that, it does not necessarily make pleasure that the other can have a story, but we can understand it. We can wonder, well, why did he need it? Maybe there's something between us that doesn't work well. Instead of saying it's over. Instead of saying it's over. But of course, we have to discuss it, we have to talk about it, and suddenly it makes the couple grow.

I have the impression that what you say will enlighten a lot of people. It's rare that I hear someone say what you're saying. The importance of jealousy, what it does, is that it blocks. If we just close any form of discussion. Discussions, we're in the lie, it's terrible. Yes, because if there's something, it's that it's gone. There's a path that leads to the other, to maybe someone else. You still have to have this curiosity to understand and put aside jealousy. Do you think we can calm down jealousy? I think we can calm it down if, again, we work on ourselves.

That is, you have to be able to have self-confidence and say to yourself that, if our paths have to separate, it's not the end of the world, and that maybe it can happen. But in any case, don't panic about separation, about abandonment. If you have abandonment neuroses, you are very jealous. So you have to heal a little bit all that. You shouldn't have rejective neuroses, abandonment, etc.

And then you also have to be in this unconditional love, that is to say, love the other for himself and to say to yourself, what matters to me is that he is happy. And so if he is happy by leaving me, well maybe, even if it doesn't please me, you have to go for it, you have to have this heart opening. But in fact it's not easy because often we still love selfishly. Yes, yes. Last question, the question around ESO. If you look at your journey, what are you most proud of? Well, maybe everything I've brought to others without even realizing it. I mean, I know that, I was telling you at the beginning, I hear it often, I tell myself, well, what I would leave behind is everything that has helped people grow.

And I tell myself, well, a life is worth living because we have brought it to others. Do you feel that your books are a bit like your children? Yes, it's true that I didn't have children. I had several friends who had children, so I raised the children of others. But I didn't have children because I actually feel that my books are like children and that my readers are like children too. enfants des autres, mais j'ai pas eu d'enfants parce que j'ai l'impression effectivement que mes livres sont comme des enfants et que mes lecteurs sont comme des enfants aussi. C'est-à-dire des gens que j'ai éduqués. C'est-à-dire qu'au fond, à travers tous mes livres, eh bien, il y a beaucoup de gens

qui me le disent, sinon je ne me rendrai pas compte que ça les a aidés, ça les a soutenus, ça les a confortés dans un moment difficile, des gens m'ont dit ça m'a sauvé la vie, je sais pas ce que ça veut dire. Et ça, je me dis, c'est au fond comme si j'avais eu tous ces enfants, que j'les avais It's difficult. People said it saved my life. I don't know what that means. And I tell myself, it's as if I had had all these children, that I had educated them, helped them, supported them. And a book is a bottle thrown at the sea. We don't know who's going to read it. And so when I write, I don't visualize a reader. But to know that it could help even one person,

I don't know how many I helped, but even if it was one, that's enough. And so deep down, it's true that rather than transmitting everything I believe, everything that is important to me as a child, I transmit it to my readers through my books. Yes, and I'm sure you provoke synchronicity. Without a doubt. Sometimes we ask ourselves questions and then all of a sudden we read a sentence, and then it's like, ah, here it is, it opens a door, it's still great to do that. Ah yes, there are sometimes things, I tell you an anecdote, but there are overwhelming encounters, and it gives me so much joy.

Once, you know, I made a film, I made a series for the Arte channel called Les Chemins du Sacré, in which I made films. There was a film, it was on the walk, and I filmed for a few days in Compostel, on the way to Compostel. So in fact, I didn't do the pilgrimage to Compostel. I had a false backpack and I walked for a few hours. We filmed, I met someone, we talked. It was just for the need for shooting.

And so for the need for shooting, the last day of shooting, I arrived at Compostel, but I hadn't done the pilgrimage. It was just a few hours, if you will. And I'm in Compostel and there I see a man of about fifty years, a big guy, who looks at me, but as if he had seen the Virgin Mary, if you will. He is, but excited, if you will. And I turn around, I tell myself, he's looking at someone behind me and all.

He approaches, he approaches, he tells me, but you are, you are Frédéric Lenoir? And there I say, well yes, he holds me in his arms, he cries, he holds me in his arms. He tells me his story, he tells me, here it is, it's incredible. He tells me, my wife died a little over a year ago, she died after a concert that lasted a long time. And your books have helped him incredibly, it supported him, it put her in serenity and everything. And she knew that after her death, I would go to do the planning of Compostelle. She told me, when you arrive at Compostelle, pray for Frédéric Lenoir.

And I am there at this precise moment in front of him. It's a miracle. Commentaire, what do you have to say? I cried. We both cried. And so, things like that, I say to myself, I didn't live for nothing. Thank you, Frédéric Lenoir, for this meeting. Thank you, you too, Marie.

Really, very, very appreciated. Thank you for being there. Thank you for continuing to write. It stimulates the mind too. And, precisely, when we have lived things in our lives, we can grow from that. Yes, and I believe that we have to accept the part of things. In my life, I know that I've done bad things. I know that I've made people suffer. I know that I was wrong. I know that I've made people suffer. I know that I've committed things that I would have done deeply.

And at the same time, I know that I've done beautiful things. I know that I've enlightened people. And I think that we also have to forgive ourselves. I mean, we have to forgive And I think we must also forgive ourselves. That is to say that we must forgive others, but forgive ourselves and accept that we are not perfect, that we are on the path of a K.A. We have suffered things, we have made others suffer things, we can regret it, and at the same time, we must say that our life is a global of good, of evil, of shadow, of light.

And we must accept everything. And I think we must die without regret, in the ultimate way, by saying to ourselves, well, I was able to accept everything, and I think you have to die without regret, ultimately, by saying to yourself, well, I made mistakes, I was wrong, but I also did beautiful things, etc. And then I think that what will remain once again is actually what we have been able to bring a little light to others and which may be able to make a little bit, at each their own level, advance humanity towards a little bit more benevolence, understanding, knowledge. You know, I often say the meaning of life is to pass from fear to love and from unconscious to consciousness. That is to say, make more and more things conscious, no longer be moved by

his unconscious and pass from fear which fear that makes us make mistakes, faults, violence, etc. to love, which is understanding, which is benevolence. And it's a whole path, so I'm still walking in it, I still have work to do, and I'm trying to help others to walk in that direction. So thank you in the name of everyone. Thank you very much, Frédéric De Noir. Thank you all for being there, everyone. Thank you, Mr. Black Director. Thank you, everyone, for being here. See you in the next podcast.

This episode was presented by Karine Jonquard, the reference in the care for the skin in Quebec, and by the Marie-Club, a space dedicated to the best-being. Table games, Open Your Game Game Original Edition and Couple Edition are available everywhere in the store and on Randolph.ca