Ouvre ton jeu avec Marie-Claude Barrette - #112 Jocelyne Cazin | Ouvre ton jeu avec Marie-Claude Barrette

Episode Date: June 30, 2025

Jocelyne Cazin est une femme curieuse, brillante, intense et déterminée. À travers le jeu on voit que la journaliste n’est jamais très loin. Elle s’ouvre, entre autres; sur son enfance, sur le deuil, sur ses choix amoureux et sur sa vie professionnelle. ━━━━━━━━━━━00:00:00 - Introduction00:12:51 - Cartes vertes00:37:10 - Cartes jaunes01:09:35 - Cartes rouges01:19:31 - Cartes Eros01:36:32 - Carte Opto-Réseau━━━━━━━━━━━L'épisode est également disponible sur Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts et les plateformes d'écoute en ligne.Vous aimez Ouvre ton jeu? C'est à votre tour d'ouvrir votre jeu avec la version jeu de société. Disponible dès maintenant partout au Québec et au https://www.randolph.ca/produit/ouvre-ton-jeu-fr/?srsltid=AfmBOoo3YkPk-AkJ9iG2D822-C9cYxyRoVXZ8ddfCQG0rwu2_GneuqTT Visitez mon site web : https://www.marie-claude.com et découvrez l'univers enrichissant du MarieClub, pour en apprendre sur l'humain dans tous ses états et visionner les épisodes d'Ouvre ton jeu, une semaine d’avance. ━━━━━━━━━━━ Ouvre ton jeu est présenté par Karine Joncas, la référence en matière de soins pour la peau, disponible dans près de 1000 pharmacies au Québec. Visitez le https://www.karinejoncas.ca et obtenez 15% de rabais avec le code ouvretonjeu15.Grâce à Éros et compagnie et notre niveau rose, obtenez 15% avec le code rose15 au https://www.erosetcompagnie.com/?code=rose15Merci également à Opto-Réseau, nouveau partenaire d'Ouvre ton jeu. Visitez le https://www.opto-reseau.com pour prendre rendez-vous dans l'une de leurs 86 cliniques.

Hello everyone, welcome to Ouvre Ton Jeu. Always a pleasure to see you again. We still have a few comments. Edith tells us, I learn a lot about myself compared to the guests. When I'm alone, I listen to them, and it's as if I had someone by my side listening to my problems. I feel less alone.

In any case, for me, it works. I would recommend this walk to people who want to understand each other more or who want to walk in life. I find it beautiful because that's what the guests come to do by trusting each other. It's not a therapy, but it's something that could be related to the fact that we end up asking ourselves questions. Monia talks about the episode of Jessica Arnois. We had a lot of comments on this episode. She says, I almost missed out on this podcast.

I would have missed out on something. Thanks to this beautiful guest, both outside and inside. Still for Jessica Arnois, Bianca says, All episodes of Ouvre Ton Jeu are rich moments of sharing and knowledge. But what a discovery! Jessica has in a way validated and comforted in my view of life, humanity, simplicity, inner child and the wonder of the sources to be fed and cultivated in each of us. I loved this meeting and am very happy to discover this beautiful human.

Indeed, I discovered this woman too. Jessica, I knew her when she did a lot of chronicles on wines. We see her wine drunk in the breweries, I think maybe in the department stores. In any case, in the breweries, she wrote books. She's a businesswoman, a committed woman. But on a personal level, I'm really happy to have discovered her. We feel that she also did a lot of work on it. She answered a lot of her questions. She was generous to share them with us. So it continues. We have made more than 100 episodes available. If you go to Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Google, whatever the platform, the episodes are all available. So it's easy to go back and see one. If you haven't seen Jessica, it's easy to find her. And it's still impressive to see all these episodes now

on the air. And it doesn't stop there. I'm not telling you it. It's continuing. We already have several guests who are planned in our calendar. Obviously, I'm talking about our partners each time because it's what allows, among other things, to offer it for free on all platforms. One of the partners is Marie-Club, Espaces mieux être. It's the platform that we set up a few months ago, more than a year ago, almost two years ago. Because when I left the TV, I was telling myself, all the experts I've met over the years, everything I've been looking for, it seemed like I couldn't leave that in the past, so I said to myself, if we set up a platform and I manage to go and look for these experts, who have often become friends, to continue to teach people, to learn, to become even better in our position. That's a bit the goal. It's the human being in all its states. We talk about everything, money, psychology, parenting, consumption.

We talk about everything. We do workshops, but always in the goal of going better, of being better behaved and also of feeling less alone because we can exchange together. So I'm happy because it's a little bit what I was doing before, but in addition we have direct contact through the tailors. In any case, go see, go to themarclode.com, you will be able to see what the Marie-Club is. And if you are interested in subscribing, we offer you 10% discount with the promo code CLUB10. Karine Jonquo, we see on everything we do, practically, when we do Open Your a partner, who is part of the whole structure, as much as Ouvre Ton Jeu, as much as Du Marais Club, and she offers you 15% discount on all your online purchases with the promo code Ouvre Ton Jeu 15. Eros is our partner, our coquin partner. You know the level of E high and it brings really interesting discussions

on the entire sphere of intimacy, sensuality, sexuality. They also offer you 15% off on all online purchases with the promo code ROSE15. And we have the largest independent optometry clinic network in Quebec, which are partners. They have 86 clinics across Quebec and these optoreso, which have been there for a long time and which still have for several weeks with us. We are very happy to have them. So they are easy to spot with optoreso. So here it is. And, my colleagues, because it's always me that you see, but there are people behind me. There's Caroline Dionne at coordination, David Bourgeois at online. Jonathan Fréchette at digital creation, Maëlle Ledevin at capture, Jérémie Boucher at social networks.

Today, I'm receiving a woman who has been on TV for several years, a woman who has been in the spotlight in several issues that we have known in Quebec, who has spoken to stakeholders, who has wanted to make things move forward, who has taken a position on the public square, who has even touched politics over the last few years. And then she wanted to come and open your game. She wrote to me and I said, yes, we have to learn from everything you've done in your life, and what you're doing now.

I'm talking about Jocelyne Casin. For those of you who know her, I don't have a big presentation to do. There may be some who will discover her. You'll see, she's a woman who has lived a lot, who has gone through a lot of things. So I'm curious to know how she's doing today and what assessment she's making of her life. So stay there because now it's time for Jocelyne.

What I would say about this is that there is an opening of mind, supplementary in my opinion, or complementary, say it as you want, because I accept bisexuality. So I don't put... a sentence in fact, I don't put limits on my love. Yes, that's it. While...

besides, it is seen, it is also apparent that homosexuals become becoming more ostracized. Yes, there is a step back. There is a step back everywhere in our society. Look at the American right-wing, which is influencing our society. In short, I believe that because I can live with one or the other, it gives me an extra opening of mind for someone who is even closed to homosexuality. Ouvre ton jeu is presented by Karine Jonquard, the skin care reference, available in nearly a thousand pharmacies in Quebec, and by the Marie-Claude, which is a space dedicated to the best-being, where more than a hundred master classes are located, led by experts,

available on Marie-Claude.com. Table games, Ouvre ton your original game and the couple edition are available everywhere in Quebec and on Randolph.ca. So she's in front of me, you've probably known her as a journalist.

She also did politics, she's a political presenter. I think she's a woman who has an atypical journey. A journey that has been sinuous, that has been... It seems that sometimes she fell, but she has always been able to get up. And that's always how we notice a great person in his capacity to get up. So I can't wait to hear her, to know where she is today, how she is doing and to make a return, of course, on her life through the game, Open Your Game. Welcome, Jocelyne Casin. Marie-Claude, hello.

Yes, it's true, I'm a little Greek in my Chinese accent. So I bounce all the time. Yes, but you bounce quickly in your life. You must have bounced quickly in your life. Yes. Well, did I have to... In any case... You did it.

I did it. I don't know if we can say I did it, but I did it. Because I am a survivor, because I am a batter. I have always defined myself as a batter and not a victim since my very young age. So, the batter continues to fight, but with more nuances today anyway. Oh yeah, that's life that learns the nuances. And how are you doing now? I'm doing well. I imagine that the interview is timeless, but I'm doing well.

I found my health again. It's been almost two years since I've been sober, I drink alcohol, and I think I'm doing well. Frankly, I've found all my abilities. I had two accidents, one caused by alcohol. It was because of that that I stopped drinking, or thanks to that, let's say. But I had another accident in January 2025, and yet I hadn't drunk. And my face was completely disfigured. I fell, really, head over heels, on the sidewalk. So I'm a pretty lucky girl, because you see, I'm in front of you, I have all my bones, I think I have my whole head, I do my swimming lessons every morning. This morning, before coming here, I did my swimming lessons.

So no, honestly, and humbly, I don't find myself that bad. Given everything I've lived in my life, I don't find myself that bad. Really. Are you ready to open your game? Well, let's see. Let's see. Are you ready? So I'll explain. There's the green level, which is general order questions. The yellow level, it's starting to be more specific to you. The red level is personal questions. They are really written for you. Even if we're going to find them in other games, it's still that this choice is destined to you. We have a question for Patreon subscribers, which is a platform where podcast amateurs often find themselves,

where there are different levels where I can go exchange with Patreon members. So we have the question Spaceman, if Patreon subscribers will hear it. It's not a set, It's like a set. Not at all. It's something that's international. No, no, no, it's not that at all. But it's like the podcast world. It's a world... It's people who like proximity. And that platform is what it offers. You have different levels of proximity. And there are some who only do parties with... It depends on the person. You have your space. And in that space, you do what you want.

And there are some who have subscriptions and it becomes very expanded by month because they have a lot of things for their members. So we choose them. It's this question. It's like a special level. We have the erotic and companion level. It are questions about intimacy, sensuality, sexuality. I like that. And we always have the question that ends the game well, that makes the plane land well. It's the optoraisal question that I always keep here. And if you don't want to answer a question, you find it going too far or you're not comfortable, you have your joker that you can put on the table once and I'll move on to the other question.

Do we have two hours? We have the time, we take the time we need. Oh, okay. At the moment, the record is Benoît Brière, 2 hours 37 minutes. Oh, well, I'm not surprised. And Benoît ends up saying, is it already over? Yes, I'm not surprised because I watched, that is to say, I participated in, let's see, the children of the TV with him and then then I told you he was taking up space.

In Benoist, there's a lot to say. He's done a lot of things in his life. He continues, he's really impressive. Green level, you can put them on the table like that. You're going to give me five. I'm going to read them to you. And of these five, you're going to choose one. And I'm going to choose one too. Three, four and five. That's a lot of fours. I'm going to try to get fours. I'll put them back. You can put them back. It's up to you. You can go with it afterwards.

You can answer if you want at home. To take care of me, I must. What kind of child were you? What is your relationship with loneliness? What do people most often blame you for? How do you react to authority? Hey Marie-Claude, I would like to answer all these questions because they all come to me. Which one first? Who comes to you? Which one would you like?

But I'm going to choose mine after. There it is the Chinese one. I choose one, then you choose one. What a mess. I'm going to say after mine. There it's the Chinese. I choose one after you choose one. What kind of child I was. I was going to choose you first. What a question. Hippie Chunette. What kind of child I was. Yes. So listen, sisters, because I grew up with sisters, among others,

and sisters told my parents that I was a child with too much playfulness. Today, I would be prescribed Ritalin, even though I have friends who tell me, today you could still take it. Do you think you have a deficit of attention disorder? I don't think so, but I was hyperactive, and I've always been hyperactive. I'm an active woman, sorry. I don't believe it, but I was hyperactive, and I've always been hyperactive. I'm an action woman, sorry. I don't stop. I was therefore an intense child.

By the way, what I'm being blamed for most often is being too intense. But I think I've lost some intensity because, I lost friends because of that, apparently. But when you were a child... So when I was a child, I was intense. I was a child... What does intense mean? Well, you know, when you're intense, you want to be everywhere. You want to be everything. I wanted to be everything, and I wanted to be everywhere. I wanted people to love me. And that obviously followed me all my life.

To be loved. Because I thought people didn't love me enough as a child. How do you show a child that you love him? What are your expectations? What a good question. To have attention. I thought I never had enough. And that, unfortunately, has followed me all my life. To want to have attention. So I chose the right job, didn't I?

Because, obviously, I didn't choose the job of journalist to have attention. But I think it's a good forfeit, it's a good package. To have it while you're doing your job. Yes, because attention is a certain form of recognition. Yes. That's it. But I think that wanting attention, as I wanted it, is a recognition that is unhealthy. Today, I am aware of it. Because it's in the eyes of the other that you wanted to feel that you were present, important.

Continually. Me, the other person's look is part of my DNA. And at the same time, the feeling of rejection. Well, yes, because if I don't have the other person's attention, I feel rejected. And that's part of my DNA. And if I agree to talk about it today, it's because I want to get rid of it. I can't do it anymore. And that's since you were little. Yes.

Because you become a complex person. Yes, it's good. I'm not complicated, but yes, I'm very complex. In the sense that you have to feel that you're with yourself. And if we forget where we are, if we have a distraction or someone else, you feel rejected. In fact, indifference kills me. That's it. But indifference, maybe you qualify it as indifference, and that's maybe not the case for the other. Ah, well, it's possible, but I'm not in the other person's head. I'm in mine. And in mine, I'll tell you, it's not fun sometimes.

How does indifference happen for you? It's interesting to dissect it, because I think that sometimes we are not aware that we can perhaps give an impression of indifference, while sometimes the cases are not the same for all. Okay. Well, indifference for me isference is writing to someone who doesn't answer me. For me, that becomes indifference, and it translates into rejection. You understand? And that, for me, is frightening. I still have a lot of difficulty accepting that. But I manage to do something else,

because I don't want to be a frustrated old woman. So I manage to do something else. I channel my energies to something else. For example, I find myself in the swimming pool, I'm going to do my long-distance, I'm going to play golf in the summer or in the winter when I'm in Florida. In short, I have to do something else to get rid of these bad thoughts.

Because, for me, these bad thoughts went far. It went to the suicidal instinct. It's crazy, not to be recognized, not to be loved, not to feel rejected. I say well to feel rejected because you have to make a difference between feeling rejected and being rejected. There are people that I certainly surprised by telling them, listen, why are you rejecting me? I'm not rejecting you from where it comes from. So I sometimes have a bad interpretation too, that's what I admit.

Do you think that because you're afraid of being rejected, we become rejected? It's like we put the table on the table in the sense that it becomes demanding for the other to be afraid of being rejected, even though it's not the intention? Well, we're going to start again from the intensity, at that point. The girl is too intense. There may be people who rejected me, indeed, because I was too intense, because I was too intense. There may be people who rejected me because I was too intense, because I was too demanding. Listen, it's the first time you see it that way. Yes, I'm going a little further in there. Because I had some intense people around me. And when you're busy, you have your kids, you have your job, you have your spouse, you have your life. Sometimes when someone pulls you, it becomes...

You don't want to hurt anyone, and then you realize that you hurt someone. And that's very difficult to bear too, to hurting someone without having that intention, but just because life is very demanding. Sometimes I have a separate friend to say, I'm sorry, but I can't meet that need. You're not capable anymore. That's because I disappoint you, and I'm disappointed to know that I'm disappointed, it bothers me. But at the same time, I don't know how to reconnect to it because I can't break my essential. You know, you understand? When you say that, it seems like I recognize patterns that I have lived. Okay, but you talked. You said the things. Because I have people who have left me without explanation. So that becomes indifference.

It hurts. It hurts even more. Listen, if I'm too much, in any way, tell me. Because I am someone who wants to improve. I am someone who has an open mind, and I am able to apologize too. And I am able to change my way of being. I am like that. But give me a chance. Yes, that's it. So if I'm not lucky, I find that rude.

And then if we go back to the question of what kind of child you were, I was an ostracized child because I was the cursed French woman in the village. I come from Saint-Sauveur-des-Monts, and then my parents were French, but they weren't French words. They were French words that adapted. Because for me, integration is extremely important. I'm talking about it today, under different terms. But anyway, I could have been a victim, because I was intimidated. Because they intimidated me. They intimidated me.

And I had to fight against that. So much so that at some point I asked my parents to be a pensioner. So I became a pensioner. And the pensioner, because obviously I always had a French accent. I grew up with my parents, the first years of my life, who had a French accent, which if you want, I grew up with my parents, me, the first years of my life, who had the French accent. So when I arrived at school, the first thing that the teacher told me was, you speak like everyone. The first rejection is there, you understand. So you're not like everyone.

No, I'm not like everyone. I've never been like everyone. That's what she's telling you. So either like everyone, that means you're not like everyone else. So she's trying to grab me by the forehead by saying, you're not like everyone else. And indeed, I think I've never been like everyone else. That's it. So in the fifth year, I arrive at the pensioner's office, and there I create a world. I'm a Gaspezian. I'm originally a Gaspezian, because I'm asked where this accent comes from. So it comes from Gaspeyan. I am originally a Gaspeyan because I am asked where this accent comes from. So, it comes from Gaspey. I understood that. And I denied my French nationality for years. It's crazy, huh? So, I also denied myself for years somewhere.

And that calmed the others when you said Gaspey? Well, that's for sure. I wasn't the cursed French. For me, it was very important not to be the French curse. But when you got home, you had parents who spoke French with the French accent. And my mother had a French restaurant in the small corner of France, at Saint-Sauveur-des-Monts. I couldn't deny that. You understand.

And the worst customers at the restaurant were the French. Ah, in France, we say yes, in France we don't do that, we don't eat that, we don't eat that. I hated the French, me, younger. Imagine yourself. And that, it's actually... Ah, well, that's... You had to camouflage that part of you? No. In the early thirties, I started to put my French head back on. But I'm a lot more Quebecois than French.

I understand. That's for sure. Did you have a lot of friends when you were little? We were four, five, six girls, we always hung held together, from primary to secondary. Yes, I had friends. Did your friends already accept you as you were? Sometimes they said, you French, with obviously the Quebec accent. And you already had this great activity? Yes. No, no, I was an action girl. I was very engaged. I was much more present in the

paraschool activities than in school. I wasn't a bright girl at school. I wasn't an intellectual. Moreover, in math, I was a real But being rejected, it continued throughout your life? Yes, because in addition to being rejected by a certain number of people at school and all that, I felt rejected from my mother because my mother was too busy at her restaurant. For me, competition was not my brothers and sisters, I didn't have any. I'm a single daughter. My competition was the restaurant. So my mother didn't have time to take care of me. And in addition, one day, and I have to tell you this, one day, there's a client who's in the kitchen, who comes to buy pâté and all that. And I go into the dining room because I was serving at the table and all that.

I think I was around 15 years old. And I hear my mother say, yes, it's true, I would have liked to have had a boy. So, you know, the rejection there, it continues there too. Did you talk to her about that? No, no, no, no. On the other hand, I wasn't happy. In fact, I was in trouble, but what do you want? You know, you put that behind and then... Yes, but it stays. But it stays. You see, I still remember.

Yes, those phrases, they stay. I was curious to hear you talk about authority. How do you react to authority? Well, I had quite authoritarian parents. But I could have been a criminal. I was 15, I started to be pretty rock and roll, so I challenged authority. And yet, I worked in a field as a journalist and as an investigation journalist where authority is a law, if you will. It's important to have authority. And today, I think it's important to have authority. But authority and being authoritarian, sometimes it's... And to have people telling us what to do in the name of authority, is that something you easily accepted? No.

Or do you accept this as a crime? No. You accept it as a crime? No, especially younger people. I tell you, I could have been a criminal. Because it made me sweat. What makes you a politician? Listen, before I came to see you, I was thinking about this. What makes me not become a criminal with all the gaffes, all the nonsense, all the alcohol consumption I've had in my life? What makes me here today, and that I think I've succeeded in life?

I may have failed less in life, but I've succeeded in life. I confess, Marie-Cla'm not sure I have a answer. I don't have an answer. But I think that, humbly, I'm pretty solid. Listen, I've never had a nervous breakdown. I had a post-traumatic shock after the death of Gaëtan Gérard, my colleague and friend who committed suicide. I never had a nervous depression, I never took antidepressants, I don't know about somnifers. I mean, I don't have pills except Tylenol for my arthroids and my vitamins.

But you drank alcohol. Ah, alcohol, I drank a lot. Was it like your medication? Well, yes, probably, but I always wanted to drink for the taste, not for the effect. Do you think that was a pretext? Maybe. Because you felt the effect? I felt the effect, but after two or three glasses, I don't know if you drink a glass of wine, you sometimes? Yes.

After two or three glasses, you really worry about the taste. Yes, that's right. But you don't know if it's for the effect, you just know when you're an alcoholic, that you want to keep drinking. But I liked the taste. Listen made vignables in Europe. You liked the taste and you did it, maybe? Probably, yes, that's for sure. But when did you realize that alcohol became a concern in your life? It was very young, because I did therapy centers.

I went to Ivry, I went to the hospital of Robert-Val, Sœur Jeanne d'Arc, I don't know if that said something. The famous Sœur Jeanne d'Arc for alcoholics. I did anonymous alcoholics for six years, at the end of the 70s and 80s, but I started drinking again and then that's it, it's been almost two years now. But when you were consuming, did you feel like it was like a beaker? Was it something that helped you get through life? Was it fun? What were you looking for in your consumption?

I know there are times when I drank out of frustration, or out of anger, or out of... ... going to fuck you up, you know. But no, I'm a Epicurean. First, I didn't drink during the day. I never missed a day of work. And I drank from 5 a.m. For example, preparing a meal for others. I like to prepare a meal for others. I like to share. And the glass of wine was part of it. You understand? It's a ritual. Exactly. But it was still going on. Ah well, that's it.

But at what age, at what point in your life were you in the choir for the first time? 24, 25, 26 years old in those areas. So you quickly, you were still very mature at that age, to say, there's a challenge and I have to face it. It's funny that you say maturity with Jocelyne at 25, I think it makes sense. Because you knew, did the others tell you that you had to... Oh yes. Okay, it wasn't your fault. Yes, yes. No, no, no. Listen, the day of my wedding, because I got married very young, I got married at 19, Robert, by his first name, told me, on the church's balcony...

The parish. The parish of the church. There. Jocelyne, when we're going to go and say yes, please say yes yes too, never take chugologues again. Chugologues, that's the person who drinks the beer the fastest. I drank three glasses of beer in 19 seconds. I beat the guys. No, no. You were 19. I was 19. But then I started drinking before I was 19. So he told you that at that time? Yes. So the people around me were already aware that I was drinking too much.

What did it do to you when he told you that? Well, I said yes. I don't remember what it did to me. I said yes. I said yes anyway at the hotel. You had to say yes to that. I had to say yes to that. time. You had to say yes. It was like a two for one. And now you're sober. Yes, I'm sober.

You're sober. We don't say sober. You ate. You're sober. So it's something that's also followed you all your life. Alcohol. Yes, that's for sure. Like your rejection feeling. Yes. Did you feel less rejected when you took a glass?

Well, you know, when you take a glass, there's no more feeling... I had the gay wine. I never had the sad wine. So... But that helped you in some way. Yes. Yes. But you have a very particular life. Very. Because you have a feeling of rejection, so young, that kills your whole life with intensity. And you said something, and I talked about it with other guests recently,

to help too much. Yes. Do we tell you that often? Too much of this or too much of that, yes. How do you react to that? There's an impotence when you say that. It's scary. It's scary. That's why I have suicidal instincts. Because if I'm too much, then I'm maybe too much. When did you have suicidal instincts? When I was young. Because I think it's funny that we talk about it, but... How old were you when you had suicidal instincts? Oh, pretty young. Pretty young.

Because I think it's funny that we're talking about that, but I think I've always, despite the alcohol I've consumed, I think I've always had a conscience of what I was or what I felt. So, quite young. Did you have the impression that you knew that your life was going to be something else than what you lived, for example, in your childhood? Did you have a feeling of not having a vision, but a feeling of saying, my life will not be that, my life will exist in the eyes of the other. I'm not always the little French woman. Sometimes we have the strength to project. Listen, I'm not a medium, but...

But sometimes we have... Yes, but what I believe today, I don't know about now, but what I believe today is that we have a destiny. I believe in time. But what I believe today is that we have a destiny. I believe in destiny. You know, I was a child, and the most beautiful gift my parents gave me was a recording recorder in Bobbine. And then I was going to interview people in the face. I was already tired of serving. But you had to be taken care of. I had to take care of myself. You had to take care of yourself. But for your parents, you had to find a way to do it. And they weren't so present at home.

No. That means that the house and the restaurant were physically the same place. Ok, it was the same place. So... wait a minute, I lost my little thread. Wait, wait. You too? No, but I was talking about planning, you were talking about destiny. Yes, that's right. I look at the little girl who has her recording in Bobine,

the clients like Manuel Maître who was the editor-in-chief of La Patrie, I don't know if that makes sense, La Patrie, the press's director, who was a customer of the restaurant, Bernard Derome who was a customer of the press, who was a customer of the restaurant. Bernard de Rome, who was a customer of the restaurant. There were plenty of them. André Lachapelle, Michel Forget, Pierre-Eliott Trudeau, they were customers of the restaurant. And with whom I spoke when I served at the table and all that, who inspired me. I was, I opened the school radio at secondary school with a little boy. I was the one who was playing the midi, and I was doing the news during lunch time at the cafeteria. After that, I went to follow my class at the National Announcement Academy. In short, after that, I got a certificate in journalism.

I mean, I had a path all drawn out. All drawn out. And you knew you were good at it? I didn't know if I was good at it, but I knew that's what, all drawn out. All drawn out. And you knew you were good in there? I didn't know if I was good, but I knew that's what I wanted to do. Despite the obstacles, because I hope you... Well, not hope, I'm sure you know that at the beginning of the 70s, women, we didn't want them in the field of information.

Ah, I know that very well. And I used to say, don't die. At the National Announcement Academy, I was the woman among men. We were 30, there was one woman. Still something. It hasn't been long. 1970s still. Yes, but I mean, it's in our era. It's not... It's our century anyway. Yes, seen like that, yes. But there's been a lot of progress. Especially because of women like you who have opened the way. You were the only woman.

I dare to believe that I participated. But that must have helped you, in the sense of quickly knowing something you liked. Because there are some who have been searching their whole lives for the moment when they will finally find something that inspires them, that you had a positive feeling about it. Because some people were looking for their whole life, when will I finally find something that makes me feel positive about it? And that's a good point you're pointing out, because my parents were vectors that allowed me to do what I wanted to do. My parents, my mother, my father, never told me, you're going to be a nurse or a school teacher, as most parents told their children. So I'm very grateful to them. flights. More of all the things you want in a travel rewards card and then some.

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Okay, we're going to choose one. Excuse me. In which you chose them. No, no, it's very correct. So here it is. What did you not receive from your parents and what did you miss? What traits of character did you inherit from your mother? What is your biggest insecurity source? And what is the biggest challenge you have had to overcome? I want to answer what character trait you inherited from your mother. Because my mother, I have to say, we were in conflict all our lives.

But this woman is a great lady because my mother recognized the war. She was in Normandy. She saw her father die in front of her, in a thousand pieces, by a blast of shells, shot by the Germans or the Americans, because I have a cousin who has already told me, finally we are not so sure that it was the shells of the Germans. In any case, it's a parenthesis. My mother is a resistant. Listen, she opened the first French restaurant in Saint-Sauveur. She is an extremely strong woman. I have never seen my mother complain, and I have never seen my mother cry. I'm not sure I want to have inherited from her is this strength, this resilience, this ability to say,

OK, I can fall, but I continue. But there are things that I don't want to have from my mother. I have my best friends who have known my parents, especially my mother, and they tell me, hey, you look more and more like your mother physically. The first feeling I have inside of me is, oh, I don't like that. I don't want to look like my mother, but there are traits of character that suit me very well. What did your mother bring you? Probably this ability to raise me. This strength of character. Because both of us... It happened quickly in your relationship, the confrontation.

Oh yes, very young. Do you have more ease in showing your emotions? Oh yes, yes. Are you able to take your emotions? No. By the way, my mother, especially my mother, sorry for a girl who is used to the microphone, I keep hanging up. No, but it's okay, we don't hear anything. Okay. I'm at school, that mean, I'm sick, I have a fever of 102,

my parents send me anyway, my mother especially, send me to school. I remember at the Marie-Rose school in St. Sauveur, I was in primary school, and my sisters send me to the infirmary because they know very well that they can't send me home. It's crazy.

I had parents like that. But you know, the French, they treat children... They slap you in the face and send you home. Do you think it's still like that today? Or was it like that at the time? Surely not. No, it was at the time. Yes, I'm talking about that time.

Yes, that's it. No, I think today... I hope they calmed down. Yes, I think so, but there were different habits, and sisters had already seen it at that time. So they protected you. Yes, sisters protected me against my parents, against my mother, I would say more against my mother. My father, when I was a child, was very protective. I was much closer to my father than to my mother. My mother, what do you want? She had her restaurant and she was there. But do you think that seeing her own father burst like that blocked something in her?

That it was too difficult, that experience. And not just that. Listen, I have a cousin who told me a little about their journey, the journey of my mother's family. They left Brittany with the... because they... my grandfather couldn't pay the farm rent anymore. They left with their cows, the children, they were five children, and they walked to Normandy, so hundreds and hundreds of kilometers. It wasn't easy. Besides, I have a picture at home of my grandparents with the children, and you see my mother's face, and you see this picture, you'd say, but it's sad to die.

A child who doesn't smile, who has the pain, who has the horror in his eyes. And then it's a 4-5 year old child. So she quickly knew the escape? Oh yes. When you think of her, what is the feeling that you have? A little bit of guilt. I had a lot of guilt towards my mother. Because when my mother fell ill for the first and last time in her life, she was 84 years old, and I was a very bad natural helper.

Somewhere, I said to myself, you didn't take care of me, why would I take care of you? It's not nice to say that. I apologize. But I lived like that. And now, would you do the same thing? No. I think I would be a better support for the last months of his life. And what makes you think that today would be different? Because I am very aware that I did not do well at that time in the last years of his life. You realized it afterwards.

Yes. Was she top? Did you you have a discussion before? In the last two years of her life, we talked. You know, my mother never told me she loved me before I was 40. And I dare to tell you that when she told me she loved me, it was because she was proud of me because she saw me on TV. By the way, she didn't accept my mother. Imagine, I retired at 57. It was horrible for her to not see see her daughter on television. And I understood why. It's because she was proud to say,

Hey, I know a house, it's my daughter. You know, it's all things like that that came to me. But it didn't touch you? No, it was tiring. Was it tiring for you for your mother to be proud of you? Because it was in the eyes of others. Yes, and in addition, because I felt good felt that she loved me because I was on TV. It's for sure that my mother wasn't always proud of me.

I made a lot of mistakes because of alcohol and all that. So of course she saw the beautiful side of Jocelyne on TV. Do you know why they didn't have other children? Because the word broke. She couldn't have had any. Oh, otherwise they would have wanted to have other children. Yes, I think so. Did you have a brother and sister before? Yes, that's why I wanted to be a pensioner.

I was a pensioner for a few years. And I loved my life as a pensioner, unlike many others. Yes, that's what I thought. When you talked about it, I thought you were going to say, I lived it, but in the end, no, it went well. I loved being a pensioner. You were part of a group, you had attention.

Yes, yes, that's for sure. It's for sure. Yes, and you know, it's hard to say. How can I tell you that? I shouldn't tell you that? I shouldn't have told you that, but it was that, wanting attention. I think you're talking about the best in the world. Do you think so? Yes, I think so. There are a lot of people like that, Jocelyne, but they don't realize that they're asking for attention.

What they realize is that people don't hear them, don't see them, don't listen to them, don't answer them. And they live with a lot of things. As you say, inside, I wonder if everyone realizes that we make others live that way. I think there are a lot of people who are not aware of it. No, because they're not like that. So they don't feel rejected as quickly. And I have the impression, and maybe you said it earlier, earlier, we want to run away from people who ask too much. So to name it as you do it, maybe it will help people too. Yes, it's better, I would have been very useful in that sense. But it's sure that the feeling of rejection, the need for the I need to look at others. It's really part of my DNA. It's crazy. Even today, but much less. Even today, it happens to me again.

And I wonder, will it stop? Because it's in your head, you still have a disease. When I was in Ivory for my alcohol problem, there was a woman called Monique de Bailly, I don't remember her name, who wrote a text for me, I have a monster in me that kills me, that rots me, get out of me so I can come to the world. And if you knew how he came to get me, it's this monster that I want to get rid of totally. Because there are still pieces of monster in me. And it brings you to a side of shadow? Yes. While you're happy?

Yes. And I think people around me can say that I'm a very happy person. I'm rarely in a bad mood. Of course, human stupidity makes me in a bad mood, but that's another thing. But no, I'm someone... I think I'm a pleasant companion. That's why you'd like to stay there. You'd like to stay in that area, but there are things that take you elsewhere. That's your monster, basically. It's like he's coming to sabotage your birth. Well, sometimes, yes. But less and less, Marie-Claude, rest assured.

But that's why you're able to talk about it. Yes. Anyway, listen, I'm 74 years old, and you have the right to say that I'm not doing it, but... You're not doing it, Jocelyne! Do you want to? You need to say that. No, no, but it's a joke. I'm 74 years old. I'm going to be 75 this year. I was born in 1950. And I really like this little sentence, even if it's a completely finished sentence. There's no time to waste, there's too much time lost. So I don't have time to waste anymore.

Because I have less left, I have less left, you understand. But you're particularly in shape, you know, you're saying your age, but I mean, you're coming from a trip, you're someone who... Listen, friends around me, they don't know how I do it. Age doesn't make you look younger. Not yet. Not yet, but it's good. I mean, you lived at least 74 years in health, after that, the rest... But it's a lot in a life.

And it's not the number of accidents. Listen, I'm telling you, I'm a very lucky person. Very lucky. And life gave me... I estimate my last chance on September 23, 2023, when I had my accident because of alcohol, and that I understood. Was it a car accident? No, it was at my place after a very good evening in Rosé. And my friends left, and so did I. I was completely blank.

I fell somewhere, I don't even know where, in my apartment. And two fractured lumbar vertebrae, 32 days in the hospital. So during those 32 days, I had time to sober up, you know. And then I was introduced to a movement called Ensobre Ta Vie, with Nathalie Lesage, and it's a movement for women, that helped me a lot, and that still helps me from time to time. So, I take this chance as the last chance.

I tell myself, if I still have a drop in alcohol, this time, I won't give up. I dare to think like that. So it makes you afraid? No, I'm not afraid. But does it make you go away as far as possible? Because you could have been paralyzed, it could have been extremely serious. Next to the pine nut, it could have been fatal.

Completely. So I understand when you say it was my last chance. Yes, I take it like that. But the question that I chose, what is the biggest challenge you have had to overcome? Well, I had a few. I was talking about alcohol, so I'll stop talking about that. I'm going to stop talking about alcohol, so I'm going to stop talking about that. The challenge after Gaëtan Girouard's death. For those who don't know, just put it back in context. First of all, I was hosting a show with Gaëtan Girouard, which was called, and still is called, the J.E. show. We launched this show in 1993, and it's funny because we still talk about it today.

There are even people who think I'm still at J.E. I say, you must have an old TV. Gaëtan Géroir was an exceptional being. He was a great perfectionist. I was too, but he had a punch on him. He was a brilliant being, which I wasn't, and I'm not saying this to underestimate myself. Let's see the reality, Gaëtan was a brilliant being. And despite all this intelligence, despite his success, he was the chouchou of the bosses, the chouchou of the Quebeckers.

And at the age of 33, he committed suicide. Because he was in severe depression. And what strikes me on the nerves is often when people tell me, «Ah, he didn't commit suicide, he was killed, it's not true, he committed suicide, and he was in great depression. » Besides, I wrote it, I wrote his suicide process in my true identity, my biography. So, to make a short story, when he committed suicide, two days before, I had called him to confirm that he was not doing well. At the time, he had suggested that I go and ask for help, to take a rest and all that, and he answered me at the time, Jocine, did you realize that if Louis Cousineau, who was a TV journalist at the time, wrote, Gaëtan Geroir,

a rest for depression, he said, no, I can't accept that. And two days later, he committed suicide. To tell you about the guilt I had, of course. The look in the eyes of others. Once again. What was there in the eyes of others? The feeling that there were things I hadn't done correctly. Did you interpret others' looks? It's always yourself that interprets others' looks. That's because people didn't tell you that. No, not necessarily.

And the hundreds of letters that I received after Gaëtan's death, from people who said, if Gaëtan Gérreault died, why would I continue to live? In that... Unacceptable. I'm talking about it, I still have goosebumps. I lived, sincerely, I lived through hell. I lived through hell. And in addition, you see, I was 49 years old.

I was starting my menopause. I stopped smoking. It's a detail, but it's not a detail because... Well, it's not a detail, it's a state. As I often say, I'm an ex-smoker today, I'm just fat. That's in humor, anyway. That's in humor. That's your humor, that's your humor. Yes, that's my humor. The challenge was to be able to continue, to stay standing, to continue to minimize J.E. despite the death threats that I had, because I had death threats.

Wait, you had death threats, why? Because obviously when you go to J.E. it doesn't necessarily have to do with you. I understand that it has to do with the show, with the topic of the show. Yes, with the topic of the show. It's not Jocelyne Casin, it's the journalist. But you were threatened to die. I was threatened to die. I did the first page of the Montreal Journal, the Hells and Shoals, in the mirror of... That is to say, Jocelyne Casin in the mirror of the Hells.

I lived that. That's your name written there. Yes. So all of that... I'm not sure I was well supported by the TVA management. You know, you did TV, The Show Must Go On. The Show Must Go On, so I did it. Until 2001, when I suffered from pleurisy and was linked to post-traumatic shock. I had never stopped.

How long after that? Gaetan committed suicide in 1999. January 14, 1999. And in 2001, I have to admit that... It's like two years later. Two years later, I'm post-traumatic, imagine that. If you've accumulated that, it's grown. So, at that moment, the TVA's management had you meet a psychologist? Did they offer you help? Indeed. I met, her name is Joanne de Montigny.

Yes, yes. An extraordinary person. A psychologist who survived an airplane crash. In short, this woman was wonderful. A specialist in the field of mourning. Yes, absolutely. And post-traumatic shock. So she helped me a lot. And then I had another psychologist, Gilbert Richer, I don't know if he wrote L'enfant roi. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. An extraordinary being too. Yes, yes. I know his book. A light aid. So they helped you. Yes, a lot. Did you camouflage things at that moment that were happening inside you, to have a strong

air, precisely, to continue to go. Well, that's for sure. But at the same time, I became an extremely aggressive person. I have colleagues at work who told me, Jocine, we like you a lot better outside of the job. You were demanding. I was demanding, I was intransigent. Listen, I have a director, who has my head, because I grabbed the nerves, as they say, who threatened to call the police. At that point? Yes, yes. Listen, I don't know if you walked around at some point,

it was on the 8th floor, when we had the J.E. show. At some point, I don't know if you saw, there was a hole in the wall of the corridor.E. show. At one point, I don't know if you saw it, there was a hole in the corridor wall. I did it. You hit yourself in the wall. I hit myself in the wall with a kick. A kick in the wall. Oh no! And nobody at that time said, «Joseline, you should have stopped?»

I don't remember. I don't remember. Maybe they told me, but… Maybe that's when the management should have intervened. I think it was at that moment that they should have said, OK, there's maybe something wrong? No, I don't remember. Did you see the fear in the eyes of others, employees, people who worked with you? No, not the fear, but the... It wasn't easy.

How did you live with that? Well, I had a feeling of rejection. How did you live with that? Well, I had a feeling of rejection. I would arrive home in the evening, and of course, at that time, I would take a walk on the way home. But I don't remember, for example, when I was doing my shows. Not during? No, I don't remember being bored during the week, for example.

Maybe the weekend, but example. Maybe at the end of the week. But I think I had... because I was more of a workaholic than an alcoholic. You had a professional ethic in all of this. Yes. But were you aware that you were provoking rejection? No. That you were pushing others back by this form of aggressiveness? I didn't have time.

I understand. You had to follow. I had to follow. I had to follow. And I had to lead. Listen, I found myself alone in the J.E. animation. And in addition, there was J.E. live. But then I had a colleague named Alain Laforet, whom you probably know. Yes, yes, absolutely.

So we co-animated the show. And I co-animated that show from Quebec too. You know, it's... Where Gaëtan was. Where Gaëtan was. Because the show, J.E. en direct, had to be produced from Quebec for reasons of the CRTC, in short. So Gaëtan animated from Quebec, and I animated from Montreal. But when Gaëtan was an anime from Quebec, and I was an anime from Montreal. But when Gaëtan died, I went to anime from Quebec.

Did it always remind you of Gaëtan? Well, all the time, it reminded me of Gaëtan. First of all, Marie-Claude, you have to know that when I'm walking, even in 2025, people still talk to me about Gaëtan. I could never forget the death of Gaëtan. It's because you were on the same show. You were at the same place, but he wasn't there anymore. But I have the impression that the relationship that I'm listening to you have with Gaëtan, is that he never rejected you. He was there for you. But Gaëtan and I, we were... You know, you lost a colleague, but you lost a friend, an accomplice, someone who understood you, who took you as you were.

Completely. Gaëtan and I, we had a friendship bond, I must say, because at the time, I didn't look 15 years older than Gaëtan. And often we thought we were married and married, you realize? And while we were friends, we were always friends standing there. I mean, I never had any intimate relationship with Gaëtan. But it was someone important to you. Listen, it was, it was of great importance in my life. And listen, I may make you smile, but I have my hips, okay? My hips are the things I lost, the things I appreciated, that I loved. And unfortunately, they are always added more and more. I think I'm starting to have a lot of them, I'm not far from

twenty, but every day, in the morning before I get up, and every night when I go to bed, I recite their names. It's like a form of meditation, but at the same time it's a memory exercise. I take it as a memory exercise too. I don't want to forget. I don't want to be an Alzheimer's patient, but that's another story. I don't have an Alzheimer's genetic in my family, and I don't think that's going to be my goal. So Gaëtan is part of me. He's part of me. And as I was saying, I can't forget him because every time we see each other, we say, oh, Mrs. Cazin, And then the second name comes from Gaëtan. Yes, because for those who didn't live that period,

it was very powerful. You know, it was recognized among the guys. I mean, it was... I think it revolutionized, because you were defending people, you were defending the people, you were defending against injustice. You were justices.

Yes. And you were afraid of nothing against injustice, you were justices. And you were afraid of nothing. When you were looked at, they were like, no, they're really going to knock on that door. There was a lot of hostility towards you. By wanting to give justice, you already have, even if it wasn't for taking your life, I thought you were already wearing a lot of it. Yes. On you. And, well, you just talked about the content, but also the form, the spectacular form of the J.E. show. That was never seen before either. That is to say, the cameraman who follows me or who follows Gaëtan, and then who goes to the person who we want to,, that is to say the person who has a link to leave with either justice or who has fraud or in any case... You were making faces there.

So we were making faces at these people. He didn't react well to the camera. No, no, no. Well, listen, I have a piece, I have a few pieces of anthology, but one, among others, with Michel Montignac, who wrote, I eat, so I lose weight, may God be his soul, because he is no longer there today. And he had sold franchises. I don't know if you remember that show. No, I didn't remember that one. Listen, it's a really spectacular piece.

So he sold franchises to Quebecers, which was still 50,000, 60,000 piastres, and he promised the exclusivity of his products, Montignac products. Do you remember Montignac bread? Yes, absolutely. Except that six months after to his franchises. And of course, the big surfaces sold his products cheaper than the franchises. So, of course, they came to see me. Well, a few came to see me.

I had done a whole investigation on that. I had interviewed some franchises. And he came to Quebec to promote a book or something. I knew he was taking the plane. So I found myself at the airport. I met Mr. Montignac in the airport. My cameraman who follows me, I have the microphone. Mr. Montignac says, yes, I say hello, I'm a TVA newspaper from the J.E. show.

Oh, hello. He doesn't know what the J.E. show is. I said, hello, I'd like to talk to you about your franchisees. He started running, you know, with his basket and everything. And then we run after, a mané stops and then says to me, you are a fucking bitch. And then he tears my microphone and everything. Listen, it was really quite spectacular. Quite spectacular.

How did you feel? You had to live it. You were like, we just got something. Were you proud of it? I said, it's going to be good TV. But it was that, it was innovative as a concept of investigation for the world. In fact, you were doing it to franchiseises, but it always started with an anchor. So you lived that with him. After that, you moved a little in his shoes. You go to Quebec. No, I never felt like that. No, because I didn't forget that I was also an actress.

Yes, that's it, but a chance that you were an actress. Because I think what you were asked was still difficult. From the outside, you worked with him, and then you go to his territory. And then I find that it's a reminder of the absence. You just touched on a point. I think, but that's my perception. I think that colleagues who worked in Quebec, because I don't forget, as I worked in Montreal, I had my team in Montreal, and Gaëtan had his team in Quebec. I was working with the Quebec team, and I think, in any case, it has never been confirmed,

but I think that there are colleagues who get bored of Gaëtan, who want to work with Gaëtan. Especially since it was the period when I stopped smoking, and besides, I just smoking, and by the way, I just remembered, one morning I got to the office and I had two cartons of cigarettes on the desk. What do you think it meant? Start smoking again, Jocine, because you're not... you're not from the world. There was someone who put that on you. Did you start again? Yes. Wait a minute, is it the period... No, I never started smoking again. I stopped in 99. So you weren't concerned about those two packages? Well, I found that a little annoying. Yes, but the words are stronger than that.

I think we should have talked. Do you think your reactions were a little scary if we tried to turn around without facing you, is that... Listen... You don't know. You don't have the answer to that, obviously. That's not the answer. We don't have it. We don't name you after that. I've never heard colleagues tell me, you scare us.

But I've heard colleagues who tell me, in other words, you piss us off. I understand. You're not repulsive. You're not fine. I admit it. I've become an aggressive person. Because you're in post-traumatic shock. Yes. And listen, I stopped J.E. Because I chose life. The threats of death, it started to happen.

I was already walking for a couple of years, every time I took my car, looking under the vehicle, if there were no wires hanging there. I was living that. So I was living that. There was the death of Gaëtan, as I said, my menopause, all that. I was no myself anymore. I'm not aggressive normally. I'm a person who is, as we said, I'm a person who is into playing and everything.

So I stopped J.E. After that, I was in the mirror at noon. And after four years, it was the same, I was no longer capable. After that, I did the editorial at LCN, and the editorial, it's something that... You know, I was offered it, but it's something that I... Who am I to have an opinion on all the current issues? You were less comfortable in... I was less comfortable in there. I was less comfortable in there. What do you remember from that period?

It's like the two years that followed Gaëtan's death. What I remember... What did you learn from that? I learned a lot. I learned to improve myself. That's for sure. I didn't want to stay in that anchorage. No, that's for sure. Because, once again, during that period, I also had suicidal instincts. You know, at some point, it's too much. It was going through your head.

You wanted to stop suffering. Yes, because you know, someone who commits suicide, it's not someone who wants to die, it's someone who doesn't want to suffer anymore. Exactly. And from what I read about suicide, it's like a spark that burns burns your thoracic cage. I don't know if you've read that before. It's like a burning in your thoracic cage. It's so painful that you can't...

That's it. So I understand that it was an important period of your life at the same time. Yes. Important but difficult. Yes. We'll move on to the red level, Jocelyne. We're changing the subject. Do you want to continue?

No, no. I think I'm done. We're going to move on to the red level. You're going to give me three questions. You're going to answer only one question in the red. Okay. You're the one who's going to choose. I'm the one who wrote this question. You're going to... How would you define the feeling of rejection? You didn't know we were going to talk about it like that before. What is your relationship with death?

At what point in your life did you have to be courageous? Well, there are at least two that I would have liked to answer, but we chose one. Well, you can answer both if you want. At what point in your life did you have to be brave? At... Do you have three years? Did you have a lot of moments where you had to be brave? I think that through everything we've just said, what I've just told you, I think you must have understood that there are several moments where I had to be brave.

But speaking of courage, I was reading lately, do you know Julie Drolet? Yes. Who just got out of chemotherapy, who had severe cancer. For me, that's the real courage. Listen, it's serious what she's been through. And you know, she's a young girl, she's not in her 50s. No, I don't think so, I think she's in her 40s. In her 40s, a brilliant woman, she's one of my best in terms of reading news. In short, if we want to talk about courage, I find that this woman, Julie Drelay, is really a courageous woman because she went through her

cancer in an extremely constructive way because she decided, with the capacities she had, and I found that she had quite a few, I don't know if you followed her, she made press reviews on her Facebook. Yes, she shared it. She shared it. So she went looking for articles in all the magazines, the newspapers around the world, that she translated. In any case, maybe she was helped for the translation, but in short... But she had this will to hurt people.

So she too is a fighter. It's a fighter who decided to say, it's not true that the disease will take over me, and the proof is still there today. And I'm very confident... So you don't want to compare yourself to Julie? I don't want to compare myself to Julie. But it's true that... I would say that... to go through everything I went through, that is to say,

to be intimidated when I was a child, to be able to make... to be able to make my professional life through all the sexist ambushes and everything you want. I think it took some courage too. To be able to continue to live my professional life. I think it took some courage to be able to continue to live after Gaëtan. It also took some courage to be able to live soberly.

Yes, it takes some courage too. So yes, there is a form of courage, but I don't want to compare it to the courage of Julie Drolet, who for me, that's... But it's your story. Probably if I asked Julie Drolet, she would say, well, I can't compare my courage to someone else. You understand? Yes, I understand. But there's only the courage, and when you have the courage to enter the arena, to face it, and not to give importance to others.

To do what we want to do, what guides us. And you do that. There is the prayer of serenity that I borrowed from anonymous alcoholics. Give me serenity to accept things that I can't change. What I can't change is obviously what's outside of me. Give me the courage to change the things I can. And that's me. That takes courage. So every time I survived these suicidal instincts, I think it took me a certain form of courage. When did you get your instincts?

Not that long ago. But it's going so fast now. Sincerely. It's going so fast. It's like a current. What are you doing when it happens to you? I'm taking care of myself. As I told you, I go to the swimming pool. I go out with my dog.

I have a little dog now. I was looking for a pair of legs, but I couldn't find them, so I bought him a four-legged dog. Are you alone in your life? Yes. I live alone. Is it a wish? No. It's not your wish? No. It's not your wish?

No. And you know, what's flat, I have friends who tell me that because you know, I opened my game. My true identity, it's not because I was a spy. I revealed

my bisexuality. So I have my bisexuality. So I have friends who tell me, frankly, there are men and there are women, and there is no one who looks at you. I say, no, there is no one who looks at me. That also makes me sweat. I don't understand, I'm not a pichou. Do you look at the others? Yes, I do. But it's true that... In fact, the people I like, and I would especially say the men,

they are busy. You mean that there are others in their lives? I'm not jealous, but it's not that bad. No, exactly. So you've met some that could have been in your taste. Someone you would have wanted to make a path with, but they are not free. Yes. And you know, people tell me, you scare men. Well yes, but stop being scared.

Gentlemen, listen, take the opportunity to come and see the real Jocelyne, not the TV lady. Because that's the problem when you're famous. You know. Yeah, and you defended yourself. You went to the front. So we see your fighting side, warrior side. That's what we see from you. So it's scary. So you have something else to offer than that? Well yes, a lot of other things. I am someone, as I said, I am Epicurean, even if I don't drink anymore. It's okay, I'm still able to have fun. Sexually, I'm still very fit. At least, I believe it. It's been a couple of years now, I'm old.

That means you practice less. That's for sure. What do you want? But do you go on apps? Do you do... I went to them. Oh, the pichous. The pichous that show up to me, it doesn't make sense. Listen... My God, I shouldn't say that. I don't understand why men show up naked, that is, when I say... twisted, let's say. The cap upside down. Listen, I think we're in a strange society.

I think it lacks presence. It lacks class. Class, yes. So you're not going to... No, that's for sure. Did you have any meetings? I did. Yes, I did. How do you live these meetings?

What do you live these encounters? Are you uncomfortable? When you don't feel it, are you able to get out of there quickly? Yes. Because there are some for whom it's more complex. No, no. I don't want to lie to myself anymore, so I'm not going to lie to others. No. So I told him, and a man I met after five minutes, I said, well, I think we're going to stop this. And he understood too. Would you have participated in Si on s'aimait encore, plus Si on s'a loved each other in this case, with Louis Cyguin on TVA. Yeah, I saw, I saw a few times. Maybe, if we find someone, yes.

It's because it's really interesting. Oh yes. But you know, the fact of seeing what the pattern is, why it works like that, why I have expectations, why this feeling of rejection, does it interfere in my love relationships too? Because there's an demand. I don't want to be a wussy, but it's a kind of path. Sometimes people won't come out in love, but they'll get to know each other more in the end. It can be interesting. It can be interesting. Well, maybe we'll say that I'm interested.

Why? Because there are public personalities who are in this... This season, it's if we liked each other, it's freedom. It's with people we know. Well, good idea. Good idea. Yes, yes, that would be good. But you know, also, it's that I don't necessarily want to live with the person. Yeah, but that's understandable. A little like Simone de Beauvoir and Jean-Paul Sartre, that is to say, everyone lives on their own. You know, I don't want to... And also, I'm a little bit of a coward.

You like young people? I like them a little bit younger, yes. So it's complicated. When you're 74, is a 60-year-old man in my life, until now, it doesn't look like that. But you're the one who looks at people in their 60s. Yes. At the erotic and companion level. Oh, really, yes, we're going elsewhere. We're going. I think we can be spiritual in eroticism too.

Yes, absolutely. Let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, The centrism is a form of spirituality in sexuality too. So there you go. Is that centrism? We're going to have to talk about Caroline Nero. Ah well! So you have four questions, you're going to give me three. Excuse me, I'm the one with a crazy face. Yes, well, I have a little cat too.

So I'm going to read them to you. You answer one question. Are you comfortable with nudity? Do you prefer to seduce or seduce yourself? What would you have liked to know about sexuality at the age of 20? Well, I'm going to answer you. Are you comfortable with nudity? Because when I was a child, my father mostly practiced nudity at home. As I told you, they were French. So the French are much more comfortable with nudity than the Quebeckers in general, who are much more prudent.

And when I first found myself a pensioner in the first night, in the dormitory, from my cell, we called it a cell, my little room, to the sink, I went naked. I walked naked at home. I had no problem with that. Listen, I ate a lot of it, eh? Oh, okay! Well, yes! Then the sister caught me, what are you doing naked? And I was on my knees for an hour in front of the Holy Virgin, the statue of the Holy Virgin. So when I arrived on Friday night at home, there was this...

Oh yes, we could have talked about that, but... It was like... something terrible happened in my head. Because nudity became evil. It was scary in my head. Because nudity was becoming bad. It was a sin. So imagine, we live in sin in my home. My father walks naked. My mother not so much. My mother was a little prouder. But my father walked naked. So I said to my father, Dad, you can't walk at night anymore, it's a sin. I'm at home, I do what I want at home.

Listen, I was in a confusion. In duality, completely. So that was it, the nudity for me, it was that as a child. But later, I always went naked at home. I even went to more young naturist camps when my body had no problems. And what do you feel in a naturist camp? What does it feel like to be naked with others? There's a form of freedom. I'm in the 20s, 30s. So, you know, we also make ourselves accords. What do you mean by that? You think you're free. To be naked is associated with a form of freedom.

It's like you're showing completely who you are somewhere. Absolutely. And besides, you just reminded me of another memory, or I just reminded me of another memory. I'm with two guys, two Americans, and my best friend. We're going to Arizona, and there's a desert in Arizona where it's... I think it's written, out of frontier, or in any case, there's no border. And all four of us were arrested, we were in two cars, we stopped and all four of us undressed completely, then we ran, we gambed in the desert, we had the right. It was a form of freedom. Nudity for me is like a form of freedom. You don't have barriers, you're not inhibited, you're free. You hide nothing.

You hide nothing, and it's extremely comfortable. I sleep naked. I sleep naked in my bed. I'm comfortable. Do you still sleep naked? Sometimes. At home, yes. Sometimes. When it's hot. So you've been in the U10 camps. I haven't met many people who have been in the U10 camps. But now you're not going back? No. Is it because of your body?

No, no, no. It didn't give me that. But otherwise you could go back. Listen, I'm not sure I would show my body like that to everyone today. I'm not sure. And also, you know, there's always this little bit of a shame when you're a little bit famous. That's true. You're right. I'm not sure. It changes the look. Yes, it changes the look in many things. But I think that being comfortable with your body, as you say, still brings something.

Does it bring something? Well, what you were saying, to go to Gambade with friends, it's like you have nothing to hide. I like what you're saying about that. Yes. There is a freedom in my home that exists in relation to many things, including nudity. Earlier you talked about bisexuality, a book. You talked about it in your biography. Is it difficult to admit bisexuality? Because you arrived at a time when we didn't talk about it so much in public. Yes, but I haven I revealed myself. But you felt it, I mean, beyond revealing yourself,

when you said, OK, I love men as much as I love women. To admit it, was it still a difficult path to admit it? To understand it? Uh, that's a good question. Honestly, I don't know what to say about that. It was more about admitting it to others. It was about admitting it because I was in the closet for almost my entire life compared to that. Except in 2020, when I dared to reveal my true identity in relation to my sexuality. But honestly, it was a polychannel secret, I know it today. You know, people probably knew it too.

Not even! No, no, no! I'm asking you this because, did you have models of people who were bisexual? Bisexual? No, no. Because for me, it's bisexuality. Homosexuality is one thing, but bisexuality, I was wondering if at some point you said, well, you have to... Did you know that bisexuality existed when you were young? Not at all. I didn't even know that homosexuality existed. I fell in love... The first guy I fell in love with, when he told me that he wasn't on the right track for me, I didn't even know what it meant, and I was 15. Okay. Well, you said something really important, and now I have to... shit, I hate that when I have to...

Well, I was going to say. First of all, I didn't always know that I was bisexual because I thought I had become homosexual. But I became homosexual and I wrote it in my book, and I know that it doesn't matter when I say homosexuals, by accident. Because I was rejected by men in my life. My father and my lover rejected me because I had taken 50 pounds. My lover said, I like you but I can't sleep with you, you're too fat. Then my father saw me coming back from the Canadian West after 6 months. I had taken 50 pounds in the Canadian West. He said to my mother, what a horror, come see your daughter. So it was my first rejects, in front of that.

And it took a couple of years, and it was a woman who came to me. I never thought I was going to become homosexual. It was a woman who came to me, and since I was all alone, I fell into her arms and I lived 20 years with women after. But at some point, I fell into the arms of a man and I liked that too. So, if you want, hence the definition of bisexuality, because I liked being with a woman, but I also liked being with a man. Sex is not a barrier. No.

In fact, the person she reveals... No, I would just like to be with someone I'm good with. Whether it's a man or a woman, but today preferably with a man. Why, I will admit, because it's simpler and easier. In the eyes of others, in society. Is it more free when you can love both sexes? Well, I have more choices, but I don't think it's a big deal. In your life, there is a freedom that's there.

I'm not saying necessarily in the couple, it's not that it's an open couple because we're bisexual, but it remains that when the person, no matter the gender, we can go further. You're touching on a very good point Marie-Claude. the gender, we can go further. You touch on a very good point Marie-Claude. What I would say about this is that there is an opening of mind. Supplementary in my opinion, or complementary, say it as you want. Because precisely, I accept bisexuality. So I don't put... A whole sentence, I don't put a limit to my love. Yes, that's it.

And besides, it's seen, it's seen that homosexuals are becoming ostracized again. Yes, there is a step back. But anyway, there is a step back everywhere in our society. Look at the American right, which is influencing our society. In short, I believe that because I allow myself to want to live one or the other, it gives me an extra opening of mind on someone who is even closed to homosexuality. But I understand, closed. It means closed, that means in life? No, but even in accepting. I understand, because life, you still have to feel it.

But in acceptance. In acceptance, obviously everyone has not seen it. But I'll give you an example. I did a lot of shows with people who were in re-assignments of sex. So people who had a gender dysphoria, who don't grow up in the right body, and who decide one day to name it. Sometimes it takes years, and I have the impression that these people live a step back from acceptance. Social? live a step back from acceptance. Social? Yes, but I found that over time, we were going in the right direction.

I have a particular sensitivity to people who have a dysphoria of gender, because it's so something that you don't decide. Imagine, you don't feel in the right body, what suffering can this have? Well, I have a friend, A friend, because he's transgender. Sometimes he's a man, sometimes he's a woman. And I tell him very friendly, you're very lucky, or lucky, because he sent me a photo in Europe,

he sent me a photo in a woman. And then a little later, in the hours that followed, he sent me a picture in male. I said, you're so lucky, lucky. You see, I'm bisexual, but he's bisexual. He walks from one sex to another. He does from one sex to another. And in that, well, it's like, if I were transgender, I would like to be a man. You know, you understand, but the path to get there is complex. There are a lot of stages. Sometimes I see that they are more ostracized than they were five years ago. Listen, you're right.

You know, we're not going in the right direction. Marie-Claude, I'm even going to tell you, I don't like the society we're entering in. I don't like it. I'm worried, and I'm happy. You know, if I had a regret to have, it would be... Among other things, I had a son that I lost, so it would be not having children.

But when I look at the society in which we are, and that we are leaving, I don't regret it anymore. I don't regret it anymore. I have a burden for the younger ones. But at the same time, it's men and women who rule the world. Well yes. So it must be that our... Especially men. It must be that our makers must look like us. These are times. I keep hope, Jocelyne.

I keep hope that... Yes, because there's a return of the balance sheet. Yes, I think we're starting to find that it's going too far. We'll have to get up and bring it back. It's awful. It's awful. Yes, because people quickly become marginal, quickly become accusers. We don't have the time, but what happened? What happened so the youngest? What did we do to them? The baby boomers and the parents, what happened? It doesn't make sense.

It's hard to answer that. Because it happens a little everywhere in the world at the same time. We are not the only ones. There are many who will say that there is like an individualization. We have beliefs too. We are talking about specialized channels when it happened, for example, L.C.N. or Canal V, Moins Compagnie, whatever. We listen to the channel we want on TV, it's still like that for example. We can listen to also listen to YouTube channels, we can listen to someone instead of having a... The masculinists? Yes, instead of having a priest at church who tells us something or whatever, we can have a master to think. And completely wash your brain. You can do it at home if you have a cell phone. You understand, it goes everywhere.

And I think we shouldn't underestimate these micro-influencers, because I'm talking about micro-influencers in the sense of the planet. What it does, it comes to get millions and millions of people at the end of the line. And that's why I say bravo to Bernard Rainville, who decided to ban cell phones in schools. Because it's going to do that less and less. Because you know, it's also the drama of intimidation that never stops. Because it follows everywhere. So I have the impression that we have individualized our way of thinking. Because it's been a few years since we've become an individualist society. Yes, but it's like the leaders, positive or negative, have more and more space in the cyberspace.

Completely. And that has no borders, it has no language, you understand? That's why people from everywhere can join behind someone. So if for us it's someone from a bad influence, it's because that person didn't have an influence before. And it didn't stop because artificial intelligence... Oh, be careful! We're going to make what we want to say to Marie-Claude Barrette or to Joseline Cazin. It's already happened to me. I'm already there. But that's it. And I say it, people will say it. Because every day I answer people, I don't sell drugs against arthritis. Because we used artificial intelligence with my voice and all that. I don't sell anything at all except subscriptions to the brand that is a platform for better being. That's all. The rest. And sometimes people ask me, but your platform, is it good? Is it a spa? But I don't sell products and it's so shocking to make me...

It's a rape? Yes, exactly. So we have to protect ourselves from that. But I think that this space is still doing damage in silence. And at some point, these people rise up, claim that, and then you say, okay, finally, it's much bigger than we thought. Because it's insidious. We don't see it on our TV. Completely. Last question. Do we have things to say? It's crazy!

Optoreso question. If you look at the whole of your career, what are you most proud of? The sweet question. To be here today with you, that is to say to have succeeded in going through all the obstacles, to stand up or to stand up, I often stood up. I think I'm pretty proud of that. That's one thing, that's the person. But of course, my professional career, that too. How many times did I say that I had the imposter syndrome? I had no business there. I don't have a university degree. You had that, the lymphoma syndrome. Oh my God, almost all my professional life. Oh yeah?

Yes. I wouldn't have that, I swear. So inside, there was something that was smaller than what you were releasing? Completely. Completely. People tell me, my God, you look so strong, yes, but I'm so small inside. But that takes energy. Ah! To grow from the outside.

Yes. Yes. Well, I think that's due to my mother. My mother's genetics, that. I have to thank her for that because, yes, I'm smaller than I look. Do you still feel like that today? Or do you feel that you're getting to the balance between what we see outside and what we feel inside? No, I'm more and more in harmony with myself. A chance. The more you're in harmony, the less you'll have the feeling of rejection.

Less. Because you're going to look inside yourself. You don't need that to fill in. I can talk faster. I can reconnect faster on what I really am. Because the feeling of rejection, unfortunately, as I told you, again, sometimes it's like a current, but it's pretty strong. Because I... Listen, if there's something I don't want in my life, it's the need to look at others. I don't want that anymore.

But to be able to name it, it's a pride too. To say, I put my finger on it, I say, yes, I'm strong. It's like a great will to change. I'm going to say something to people, but I was the one who asked you to do it. Yes. And... I was even... And you didn't answer me, and I asked you again. But I didn't answer you in a few days.

Yes, well, it's a lot of a few days. I understand, I understand. I dare to tell your... to the people who are watching us. Because I'm not always solicited. I understand. I'm soliciting because I want to continue to exist. The biggest fear I have in my life is not to feel useful anymore.

That's a big fear I have. And not to exist anymore. I want to continue to exist. But you know, to be solicited... I also solicit. I think I interviewed Denis Bouchard the other day. He told me, you know, I'll never play a role. I applied. He created his jobs, Denis. So that made me...

I'm not useful. No, but that's why I met a lot of people. We all think that everyone is applied, Jocelyne. Ok, well now you see, it comes in front of me. That's not what's going on. We create our own things. We move forward. We're not waiting because being solicited is also waiting. And to say, I'm here. Sometimes I answered because I was completely overwhelmed, but I answered.

I knew I had to answer you. I have this problem of not answering immediately and not putting heart emojis, a smile and all that. I'm like, yes, no, I'll come back to you. It's pretty much my words that I wrote. But it's correct that you're busy. No, but it's in the sense that I see it go by, I say, I have to answer, and then at some point, there are 56,000, and then one morning, I'm like, okay, I'm going to step back. So, not answering, I'm like, you know, you understand, there was a morning, I answer, I do my assessment, because before, we didn't answer quickly like that. You know, the textos made me, if I write to someone, I say, we haven't answered yet, it's been 24 hours.

It's completely crazy. But it's crazy what we're creating, this kind of urgency, you know? Other monsters. Other monsters. But what I mean is that for me, soliciting is part of life. Okay, I'll be less complexed. But yes, don't be. You answered me. There's an animation, I'm not going to say which one, but I think I would have had things to say and I would have really liked to go to this show. So I asked the host, since we were friends on Facebook,

he never answered me. Never. Ok, but that's a difference, not answering you. It's scary. It comes with the feeling of rejection. And I find that scary. Listen, tell me no, but tell me something. Yes, that's it, you can take the answer. From the moment you ask, you have to accept that it might be yes, it might be no. Yes, but I accept that people say no.

That's it, exactly. But it's worth answering. Because that's where the doubt comes in. You're a real pain in the ass. And you know, I think that, and you know it, we don't want to be in Asbyn. And I, at 74, I have the chance to think that I'm not an Asbine yet. Because since 2008, when I retired from TVA, I think I've done some things. I wrote four books, the last one, Funest Recall.

I give conferences, I host congresses, in short, I don't stop, I give interviews. I think it's super cool. I'm a volunteer. I've been involved with La Sclérose en plaque since 2003. I have four friends who are involved with La Sclérose en plaque. I find it cool, but I don't want to be a S.B. As I said, I want to continue to exist. And if I can afford another little thing, I still have projects and desires. Moi, j'ai encore des projets, j'ai encore des désirs. Eh bien, imagine-toi que en 2008, j'ai eu le grand honneur de jouer dans les Belles Soeurs de Michel Tremblay. C'était une commande de Monique Giroux avec Denis Filiatro pour le 40e anniversaire des Belles Soeurs.

Alors, on a joué au Rideau Vert et nous étions about fifteen of us, not at all from the theatre. And I loved my experience, especially since I played the role of Denise Filiatro, whom she played in 1968, Rose Wymett. And it was great. And then, imagine that I thought that I wanted to play. Ah! Yes, I want to play. So I signed up for an artist agency, Johnson. She has my CV and I sent her the video, the extract of the Belles-Sœurs. I will have to do a demo to show that I am capable of playing.

That's extraordinary. But you took the lead. I think fundamentally that we must take the lead and especially not feel rejected if we are not called. You understand? Because it's taking your place. Taking the place you want to have. And it's good that you say your place, and not someone else's. No! I think I've always taken my place. There may have been people who had the impression that I was taking their place, because it's true that I was taking a lot of places, but I never wanted to take someone else's place. That's for sure. So keep taking your place.

Thank you, Jocelyne Casinck. It was great. Very nice meeting you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you to everyone, and we'llazin. It was great. It was a great meeting. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, everyone, and see you at the next podcast. Bye! and the best-being space. Table Tennis Open Your Game Original Edition and Couple Edition are available everywhere in stores and on Randolph.ca