Ouvre ton jeu avec Marie-Claude Barrette - #89 Marie Laberge | Ouvre ton jeu avec Marie-Claude Barrette

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

J’avais hâte de recevoir Marie Laberge. Cette femme est libre. Ça transparaît dans tout ce qu’elle dit. Elle a fait la place dont elle avait besoin pour combler son envie d’écrire. Rencontr...e avec une femme passionnée et captivante. ━━━━━━━━━━━ 00:00:00 - Introduction 00:20:24 - Cartes vertes 00:51:11 - Cartes jaunes 01:22:00 - Cartes rouges 01:50:09- Cartes Eros 02:03:43 - Carte Opto-Réseau ━━━━━━━━━━━ L'épisode est également disponible sur Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts et les plateformes d'écoute en ligne. Vous aimez Ouvre ton jeu? C'est à votre tour d'ouvrir votre jeu avec la version jeu de société. Disponible dès maintenant partout au Québec et au https://www.randolph.ca/produit/ouvre-ton-jeu-fr/?srsltid=AfmBOoo3YkPk-AkJ9iG2D822-C9cYxyRoVXZ8ddfCQG0rwu2_GneuqTT Visitez mon site web : https://www.marie-claude.com et découvrez l'univers enrichissant du MarieClub, pour en apprendre sur l'humain dans tous ses états et visionner les épisodes d'Ouvre ton jeu, une semaine d’avance. ━━━━━━━━━━━ Ouvre ton jeu est présenté par Karine Joncas, la référence en matière de soins pour la peau, disponible dans près de 1000 pharmacies au Québec. Visitez le https://www.karinejoncas.ca et obtenez 15% de rabais avec le code ouvretonjeu15. Grâce à Éros et compagnie et notre niveau rose, obtenez 15% avec le code rose15 au https://www.erosetcompagnie.com Merci également à Opto-Réseau, nouveau partenaire d'Ouvre ton jeu. Visitez le https://www.opto-reseau.com pour prendre rendez-vous dans l'une de leurs 85 cliniques.

Transcript
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Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello everyone, welcome to Open Your Game, the podcast. I hope you are doing well. In any case, I am in super super good shape. And we have like a year 2025 where there are lots of things coming, always exciting. We will announce soon the arrival of a new game, Open Your Game, and I will tell you a little later what it consists of. Je vous dirai un peu plus tard en quoi il consiste. Aussi, on s'en va encore vous rencontrer sur scène. On a fait deux Ouvres ton jeu sur scène en 2024, soit à Brossard et à Québec. Et là, on va se rendre à Gatineau, à Brossard, à Sainte Eustache, à Québec aussi.
Starting point is 00:00:41 Alors c'est facile, you can go to my page, Marie-Claude Barrette, my Facebook page. You'll be able to see the Open Your Game on stage or on the MarieClaude.com. So if you're interested, you're welcome. And if you come to see us, I pick names. So, of course, voluntarily put your names in a box because if it tries to make you experience it, I'm picking names at the beginning of this magnificent
Starting point is 00:01:11 meeting. And you will be able to answer a question on stage. And for me, these are really extraordinary moments to go to your meeting. And for the person who lives the Open Your Game on stage, it's also different as an experience because there are public reactions. So we'll have a few in 2025. There may be other dates that will be added,
Starting point is 00:01:34 but for the moment, I just named the cities for you, so for the rest, it's up to you. I always like to read some of your comments at the beginning of each meeting. So, this is from Joan who says, « In each episode, you invite me to interpret in one way or another, but those that I didn't think were particularly interesting always end up bringing me something. » But the one with Julie Bélanger really resonated with me.
Starting point is 00:02:04 Her sharing touched me deeply because I had a very close relationship, and sometimes complex with my daughter. While listening to this episode, I had the impression that we were putting words on emotions, and I didn't know how to express them. So thank you to Julie, of course, for this open talk around this table. And thank you also for that comment, but it's true that the stories of others, even if a priori we don't feel like it's going to touch us, we never know. So that's why I think you're so many to listen to them.
Starting point is 00:02:39 And how many times do we say, I didn't think that person would touch me? Well, basically, it's because we learn to know them. Annie tells us, like this inspiration, I love opening your game, on and kindness. What is special for me is when I walk around, you know, during the holidays, I walked a lot, I met people, I did a lot of things publicly, and it's to see how much younger people there are than before. That is to say that the people who followed me when I was doing this, they stayed, but there are people 15, 20, 25 years old, who knew me less, and now they come to see me, they come to talk to the guests who marked them, and I find that extraordinary.
Starting point is 00:03:33 It becomes like an intergenerational exchange without it being the starting point, but just in this way of listening. So for me, I want to say what my children would say, I live the dream, that's a little bit of it. It has always been to make bonds with everyone and to stop making age differences, the differences in sex. We live in this world and we often have the same barriers,
Starting point is 00:04:01 we have similar challenges or even on the contrary, we have exceptional moments and to share them with Ouvre ton jeu, well, I think it's beautiful what it gives. So, here it is. Obviously, I always thank my partners because we can see each other in the virtual community, the Marc-Globe, one week in advance without advertising, or on Patreon, in our space Patreon, also in advance and without advertising. But it will always remain free on YouTube, on all the platforms of podcast distribution. And this is obviously thanks to Karine Jonquas, who also always offers you a 15% discount on online purchases with the promo code Ouvre Ton Jeu 15. And Ross & Company is also a faithful partner. on online purchases with the promo code Ouvre Ton Jeu 15.
Starting point is 00:04:45 Eros et compagnie is also a loyal partner and they also offer you 15% off. So you can go to the Eros website and the promo code Eros15. And we always have our specialist, among others, from the Optoraiso view, who is with us week after week, which always has this question, I find, which is very caring towards the guests, which always ends well this meeting. And obviously the team with whom I could not do what we have to do, because I can tell you that we are taking the team apart,
Starting point is 00:05:20 we are working hard, we have the letter of information along the lines of my thoughts which we send week after week to the thousands of subscribers. We have the Marie-Club, in which we prepare several episodes of workshops, the reading club, the Qosries that we do live with the members sometimes per month. And obviously, I told you earlier, we're going on stage, we're going to launch a new game, and there, open your game, which we always do with so much passion. So I would like to thank Caroline Dion for the coordination, David Bourgeois for the online presentation, Jonathan Fréchette for the cultural level, especially at the level of writing. It's a woman that I think we quickly recognize by her hair,
Starting point is 00:06:13 which has a particularity. As soon as we see her, we don't forget that face. And what marked me the first time I heard her, it's her voice. This voice calls me, this voice reassures me, and her writing has really impressed me from the start. She's a singer I have the greatest respect for. So today I receive Marie Laberge. So right away, I leave her all the time. So, place to Marie.
Starting point is 00:06:44 There have been very difficult moments in my life. In my life, all the breaks have been very difficult. It's always difficult. So there are four marriages that I have ended, or that we have ended for me. And when you end a relationship, you are always a little bit in a hurry all of a sudden. It's sure that a breakup break is a resumption of the question automatically. And that's good, that's perfect. I've always said, it's a good thing. Open Your Game is presented by Karine Jonquin,
Starting point is 00:07:20 the reference in the care center for skin, available in nearly a thousand pharmacies in Quebec, and by the virtual community Marie-Clobe, The Today, I'm receiving a woman. The first thing that has marked me with this woman is her voice. She has a soft, soothing voice that comforts me. Even if I don't know her, as soon as I hear her, I want to listen to her. So I listened to all of her interviews. As soon as I came across an interview, I listened to her until the end. And after her books, it's like a tantalum, the descriptions, when she tells something, you feel 360 degrees in that story.
Starting point is 00:08:12 She gave me another vision of the city of Quebec, a vision of another time, and I already liked Quebec, and I even more liked Quebec thanks to this woman. She made us know a great part of Quebec also, around the world. It's a nurse who has crossed the borders, it's been a long time
Starting point is 00:08:33 that she sold, I don't know, hundreds or maybe even millions of books, I'm going to ask her, but it's a very, very well-known nurse in, and for me it's really an honor to welcome her today, Marie Laberge. Hello, Marie. Hello, Marie-Claude. Your voice fascinates me. I'm surprised. I never thought that it could be my voice. Never. Ah, yes, you have a voice. It seems that I hung on to your voice first when I heard it in an interview. And when I read your books, it was you who always told us. You always heard your voice.
Starting point is 00:09:11 There are people who have already told me that, but it made me think, oh, but it's not flat, you know, to have my voice, it doesn't stop you from touching the characters, to reach them. That is to say that when it's characters, it's sure that we can have another voice. But the whole narrative line, for me, it's you who brings me into a universe. Which is different because you really have a...
Starting point is 00:09:35 Have we already talked about your voice? Once, when I was doing radio, it was Radio Canada, and they did a kind of survey, the voice you like, or the voice... And I was among the people who had a voice that was loved, and it really surprised me and surprised me at the same time. Because I never thought about that. Because you have a voice that is quite serious in it, and that is just, you know, you don't have so much modulation in your voice.
Starting point is 00:10:04 There is something, it's comforting, this voice. And I think it's a great quality. I'm very happy to have that. Tell me, how many books have you sold? You've done other things than books, but books are still your big commercial. Yes, it's a big deal. For the trilogy, we sold more than a million. I don't know how much I sold for the trilogy, because there are figures in Europe and all that. Trilogy, on a vandu ou de la de million. La, je sais pas a combien je suis rendu pour la Trilogy,
Starting point is 00:10:25 parce que y a des chiffres en Europe et tout ça. Comment est-ce que c'est qu'ils ont écrit ça? Il y avait, Pocket a fait une espèce de petite publicité à un moment donné, ça fait 20 ans cette année qu'ils l'avaient, et ils ont marqué Livre Cult. Alors moi, ça m'a fait, mon Dieu, Seigneur, est-ce que vraiment je suis rendu un Livre Cult? Mais enfin, ça c'est... Mais ça veut dire quand même que c'est ancré dans le monde de la littérature. Oui. Quand on est un Livre Cult. Oh my God, Lord, did I really make a cult book? But it still means that it's anchored in the world of literature.
Starting point is 00:10:47 Yes. When you have a cult book... Yes, it means that it has its place among the favorites of certain people, and that it's a reference. Probably for Quebec, for them, it makes them a reference. Yes, yes, yes. And you know, the trilogy, but you wrote a lot of other things. So you have several, several hundred thousand books sold.
Starting point is 00:11:08 Yes, but how many? I don't know, but... And I'm not a good accountant, me. Oh no! I'm not good at that. Well, in fact, I just want to know if it works. Let's say I take out a book and I'm going to ask, have we sold it? Is it correct? Is it working? Yes.
Starting point is 00:11:21 The trilogy phenomenon, which is like a storm, it rose up right away with Gabriel, but right away. And we don't know why these things happen. There are people who ask, what is your recipe? I say, if there was a recipe, everyone would make it. It's obvious that there is no recipe for that. There comes a time when this theme, this way of telling the story of Quebec, when we create it in there, with characters who, for one reason or another, start talking more to people, it happens in an adequate way, with the desire to read that.
Starting point is 00:11:57 And that's it. We can't predict it, we can't guess it, and you can just... In fact, that's a wonderful effect, but you can't look for it when you write. When you write, you have to stay in writing, and not in, I hope it will work. I hope it will work, it's the guarantee that it won't work. Because you lose your direction. Yes, you detach yourself and then you go outside. So you have to dive into yourself to write.
Starting point is 00:12:25 Did this trilogy bring you closer to your readers and readers? It was fulgurant. It was really the word that came to me. First, because I couldn't imagine having so many readers at the same time. And then in bookshelves, all the love people had for one another, for this, for that. Oh, it must not happen. And then, that was so nice. I had the impression that we had a common family,
Starting point is 00:12:50 that we had friends like one. And then our friends, we want good things to happen, but there, it was already written when I was in the rooms. And let's say that there was not the third round yet, but then I said to myself, they will not be happy. But at the same time, that's it. I think it's like you're part of this big line of Quebec authors and authors who will stay. It's like we couldn't talk about literature, and even until today, without naming you.
Starting point is 00:13:22 If we talk about people who marked Quebec with their pen, you'll come out right away. I just hope to have embodied it correctly. But am I going to stay or not? That's so not my business, it's so not my spring. But writing is still a good way to stay too. It could be good, it could be.
Starting point is 00:13:41 But it's funny, I don't think about that, Marie-Claude. You don't think about how, Marie-Claude. You don't think about how you're going to... Can you leave a trace or what trace you've already left? No, I think of a trace that I have the impression of leaving in my relationship to the readers in the bookshelves, when people talk to me about what the book does to them. There, yes. There, I have the impression that I am in communication with them
Starting point is 00:14:04 and that what I bring creates a real dialogue. They want to talk to me about it, they want to give me some sort of echo, and to speak honestly. In fact, what I feel the most, and that's what amazes me the most, is their confidence that I will understand what they're talking about. Like a good interviewer. But it's also a link that is created. And this link is mysterious because it starts from a writing, so from me, but it's not my person. It's... It's the life you give to your characters,
Starting point is 00:14:43 the meaning you give to your story, the direction you give. It's a bit crazy, but at the same time, that exists and it's very, very strong. And I feel that confidence, I try to respect it as much as possible, to be worthy of it. Because it's not everyone who has confidence. I'm not that easy to trust. When I see people telling me secrets, telling me things that are very intimate, because I've awakened something in their lives,
Starting point is 00:15:11 it's a huge gift. It's a lot. So I don't want to waste that. I received a few weeks ago the French author Milissa D'Acosta. Yes. Because I have a virtual community called Le Marie-Clobe, and we have a reading club. This reading club is very important to us.
Starting point is 00:15:31 And since she was at the book club, she landed here. And we were talking about the book club, the difference, for example, between a singer, a singer or someone who is at the theater. They see the audience in front of them, they can meet them afterwards if they want. But compared to being an author, there is an intimacy, there is a meeting, one person at a time, it's not necessarily a big group,
Starting point is 00:15:58 unless we have a conference, but there is still, when we accept to go to bookstores, bookstores, to do signature signs, we hear the person. It's really great proximity. And it's through the book at the beginning. Because the book that comes from me, but it's not me, and the person who reads it, she creates a link with the book. And after that link, it spreads to us.
Starting point is 00:16:25 It reaches us. It's like... Well, that's how I feel it. But it's a real miracle. And I who did the theater, it's true that in the theater, when we're on stage, we work with the audience. That is to say, the more they react, the more we adjust.
Starting point is 00:16:40 Sometimes you have to turn down the tone to be sure that it will calm down in the left corner of the room, or we don't know who is who, but it bothers everyone. But there is immediately, and it's true that the applause is immediate, we know where we are going. When we say hi, it works well. Spontaneous. Yes, but even in the long run, we can always say,
Starting point is 00:17:02 the room is good to sit in. That means that listening is perfect and that everything we try to do, it goes in, it passes. And it exchanges. Because we receive. We receive on stage. You should never think that in the room,
Starting point is 00:17:14 we are immobile or quiet, even if we say nothing. But it's like a group, a group. That's it. So it's not the same thing at all when you arrive with a book. It's a book in its true form. It's my words, your reading.
Starting point is 00:17:30 And reading is the reader's imagination. And his imagination creates a world. Not everyone has the same Gabriel. Not everyone has the same Adelaide in her head, nor the same Nick. Everyone has their own man. Yes, absolutely. But every time the miracle happens, every time the image is made, and it's a creation in two.
Starting point is 00:17:54 You mustn't think that a reader is not a creator. He creates. He creates the world that I suggest. And when you suggest a world that leads us to be more fertile at the level of its own creativity, I imagine that's where the connection is. There is that, but there is also when it's done, we read to distract ourselves, to escape our conflicts, our problems, our little hamsters. But at some point, it's as if reading was sending us an answer to what worries us, to what troubles us, or to what anguishes us. And that, that's like another well-done thing. Reading, we sometimes feel like it's like going to get friends. There are books like that that we don't keep too far away for the little raw ends of life. When it starts
Starting point is 00:18:42 to get a little dark, we say, oh, I think I'm going to go get that for myself. And then we open it, we know it by heart, the book, we open it in the right place, and then we go back in. And at the same time, it calms us down, at the same time, it reassures us, and it gives us the right answer a few times. It's good. It's like a real friend. Yes, yes. It's wonderful to be a friend like that.
Starting point is 00:19:04 Are you ready to open your game, Marie? Let's go. I had the impression of having it already a real friend. It's wonderful to be a friend like that. Are you ready to open your game, Marie? Let's go! I had the impression of having already opened a little. Yes, we started anyway. There are levels. The green level, the green cards, are actually generic questions. The yellow questions are questions that become more specific to you. The red questions become more specific to you. The red questions become more personal. The pink level, you will understand, is the eros and compagnie level.
Starting point is 00:19:31 So these are questions that will be related to sensuality, to sexuality. You will have a choice of answer. You will be able to choose your question sooner. The question, Optorhizo, is the last question I'm going to ask you. It's always a question that I find that ends this meeting well. It's a comforting question, the opto-network question. And you're a joker, because obviously I ask sub-questions. And then at some point you find that it's enough.
Starting point is 00:19:57 You can drop your joker and I'll change the question. Oh, without discussion. Well, without discussion, because it allows me to understand... To go all out. To go all out, because since I don't know the answers, do I get to a space that is more sensitive? I don't know. So, since I don't necessarily want to restrict myself, but like that, it gives me...
Starting point is 00:20:18 It gives you freedom. Exactly, it gives me freedom and you too. So the joker protects us. We'll put it there. So the green level, what you do, you brush, you know, you can brush the cards like that, you'll give me five. You choose five. There are a few, yes.
Starting point is 00:20:31 Yes, there are still a few, there are eight. So you'll give me... And that's always the same. No. That is to say that it can come back from one game to another, but this game was made for you. But there are a lot of questions that will come back in the games of others, and there are questions that are only there.
Starting point is 00:20:46 Okay, so you, in the green, let's say, where do you come from? I'm maybe even a thirtieth. I often choose the... Oh, that's good. There are several that come back because I find that when there are questions that I ask, the answers are always fascinating. It brings people completely elsewhere. Okay. Like for example,
Starting point is 00:21:06 How many did you give me? Five. You give me five. Three, four and five. Okay, madam. Thank you. So I read them to you. Yes. When I read them to you,
Starting point is 00:21:16 you will choose one that you want to answer and I will choose one. So you will answer two out of five. Check it in. Exactly. How has your relationship with money evolve over your life? Where did you feel you were in full possession of your means? What place does friendship take in your daily life?
Starting point is 00:21:34 When I look in the mirror, I see. And what makes you vulnerable? I would say the place. The second place. Where did you feel you are in possession of your means? Yes, and that's when I write. When I write, at the same time I am extremely fragile and extremely strong. And that's the most mysterious thing in my life. At the same time, I want to go there,
Starting point is 00:22:06 and at the same time, I'm afraid to go there. And that creates a kind of inner excitement, a kind of... I don't know, I always have the impression that when I get to my table, well, I have to say that I don't write anywhere now. It's been a while since I've gone to the seaside to write. So I bring my desk of writing that was made by a friend and that I put in the trunk of my car first. So I have all my little rituals.
Starting point is 00:22:35 I set up my desk in front of the window that gives on the sea. And it's in the United States, so on the east coast. So the sun rises every morning, leaving the ocean. And that, for me, who starts writing at 3.30 in the morning, in the middle of the night, I like the idea of turning on my lamp, of starting to write,
Starting point is 00:22:54 and sometimes being so caught up in what I do that I can't see the sun coming out. And sometimes, because I'm wandering and looking for where I'm going, there I see the sun and looking for the end I'm going to go, there I see the sun and I see the day rise, it's like a promise, always kept. And this promise of the day that rises, for me, is extremely important. So physically, I'm in my place. And for the work, for the expression, for qui je suis, je suis encore plus à ma
Starting point is 00:23:25 place parce que je suis en train de décrire. C'est la seule chose que je fais vraiment bien toute seule, constamment. Est-ce que tu te sens libre? Totalement. Totalement. D'abord parce que je suis toute seule. La chose la plus importante pour moi c'est être toute seule. Toute seule dans ta maison? Dans la maison. Toute la maison. Pour une femme Because I'm all alone. The most important thing for me is to be all alone. All alone in your house? All alone in your party, in your house? Yes, all alone in the house. For a woman who has children, you will understand that. There is no one who is looking to know if they are eating coffee,
Starting point is 00:23:53 what they are eating at night, at what time it is. Just a minute, I just want to ask you. There is no one. You have no constraints? None. And your phone is closed? Absolutely. Absolutely.
Starting point is 00:24:03 And I wrote by hand. So it's not the computer that's going to do ding ding ding. It's not there. It's not there. I am in the absolute freedom. Have you always written in those conditions? I haven't always written in front of the sea, that's for sure. But I've always written alone. I try to see if I already have...
Starting point is 00:24:26 Once there was a cat, but that's it, there's a cat. All it does is settle on the freshly written page. It was called My Trees, and I remember that every time I did... And I put it there, whoop, it moved and it settled on it. As if the fresh ink pleased her. But that's all. But I never... No, I don't write with people around me.
Starting point is 00:24:49 I'm not capable. Because you dive into your universe. I dive and I'm ready for anything that will happen. If I explode in blood, I explode in blood. If I'm anxious... I don't want to be a witness. I would say that this is probably the most intimate thing I can do. There is no more time. There is one. I don't want to be seen. I want to be there. I want to be who I am. Because if you are seen, you already get out of it. Do you think about the other person's look?
Starting point is 00:25:20 No, I'm not sure I would think about the other person's look. It brings me to the truth. It would fit me. So you wouldn't be fully in front of your writing? Do you think about the other person's perspective? No, I'm not sure I would think about the other person's perspective. It's a bit of a shame. So you wouldn't be fully in front of your writing? No, no, no. It has to be... Really, in my kingdom, I have to be alone. And I need it. Because it's a world that lives in me.
Starting point is 00:25:38 There are a lot of people too. So I don't need others to come from elsewhere. The first time I understood that, I remember I was having dinner with someone and I was writing L'Enseagile, it's been a long time, we've been talking for a few years. And at one point I said, what's going on in Spain? And my uncle made me a meal in Spain. I said, Franco? He said he's dead Franco.
Starting point is 00:26:06 No, I'm sorry, let it be. I was in 36, I was in 1936, and I knew Franco and all that. And I wasn't there, I wasn't there. I like not to be there if I don't have a reason to be there. I like to be in the obsession. This obsession was first and foremost a passenger. I know very well that when I finish writing, I can put my soles back on, I'm a sui-re-moi. You come back to your time. You come back to your time.
Starting point is 00:26:34 I come back to where I belong, but the time I write, I don't want people to ask me questions, I don't want to get involved in other things. At first I was writing and then if there was a meeting with people, I would go there. question, j'ai pas envie de mêler d'autres choses. Au début j'écrivais et puis s'il y avait, je sais pas moi, une rencontre avec des gens, j'y allais. Puis je me suis rendu compte que ça me tenait, je trouvais tout trop long, je trouvais tout achalant, en plus qu'on parle de ça, c'est pas le fun. Moi je voulais juste être dans ma tête, je voulais juste retourner. À partir du moment où j'ai compris ça, ça a fait, ben, m say, manage it, arrange everything so that it is as you want. And I did it very, very early.
Starting point is 00:27:10 So, but how long do you go when you go? It depends, the trilogy took a long time. It was long. And it was a lot. But hey, I still have means of communication. People think that I'm not in a slum, that is to say that I can do FaceTime now. Yes, when you leave your day,
Starting point is 00:27:31 you leave that, you speak to the world anyway. But there is no physical presence. No. Are you a great loner? Yes. In fact, I am double. Frankly, there is someone in me who is extremely comfortable in loneliness.
Starting point is 00:27:47 I don't suffer from being alone. On the contrary, I'm like a little fish in its shell. But at the same time, I'm totally able to be with people. Being with people doesn't bother me, I like it and so on. But there has to be a time for everyone. And I like it a lot because when you release a book, it's a time of sociability. We're talking about a time when I meet people with great happiness. It's never something that weighs on me.
Starting point is 00:28:17 It would weigh on me a lot while I'm writing. That wouldn't work. But both of them suit me, and frankly, I don't feel like I'm torn apart. I mean, it doesn't happen to me. When I'm all alone after two or three months, I can't wait for the party I'm going to do when I'm done.
Starting point is 00:28:36 Because when I'm done, usually I open the house to friends, to people. That's for sure party time. And always. I need it. But when I write, I don't need it to happen. What you're saying is so much respect for you and your art. And that's what I like to hear.
Starting point is 00:28:55 Because sometimes, we let a lot of things happen. And finally, we know that's what we should do, and we don't. I think that sometimes, we're not good when we know that we're not in full possession of these means. And especially when we know how to get there. But we don't dare to do everything. What you're doing in the background, there are also sacrifices in there. To push back certain things to make space. It has its price.
Starting point is 00:29:19 Yes. It has its price. But at the same time, it's so expensive that it's not important to pay that price. For me, but it's true that there is respect. Because when you say paying, it's not financially. No. It's that it's paying in the quality of your writing, in the quality of your story, in what you do. I would never be able to write what I write if it had to be assured with an interview, as nice as it is.
Starting point is 00:29:42 You would lose your film. But you lose the film. You would lose your thread. You lose the thread. To find the thread, you have to turn around. Do you have a picture where you go, your character is going on a trip, and you create the trip, or is it done with all your spontaneity
Starting point is 00:30:00 and the fact that you are completely immersed? It's done, it explodes, it implodes, it goes. It can surprise me. But for me, I have to be almost in the state of the reader. I mean, I don't know where I'm going. I don't know how it's going to end. I never know. I find that exciting to hear.
Starting point is 00:30:17 Listen, it's scary to do that. But it's fun because it's the only way. Do you sometimes tell yourself, I don't know where I'm going? Have you get lost? Yes, it happens to me. But it's funny because the other time I said to myself, try to be honest. Try to be honest and remember before.
Starting point is 00:30:33 Because, you know, it's been, I was 11 when I started writing, and I'm 74. So there's time. And I have a lot of imagination, so I tend to believe in myself. I say, oh, I've never done that. But it's not true. There are pages that I have taken off. At one point, I leave, and I write, and I say, no, no, no, no, no. It doesn't work. It's like it was moving forward with the handbrake.
Starting point is 00:30:58 You know, it moves forward, it doesn't want to move forward, and it makes me, why, why? And then I always tell myself, you're... And then I put down my pen and I say, what's wrong with you? And then I say, well, what's going on? And then I try to see, and then I say, it's there, it's here. It's here that you broke, you broke with what was there before. It's like at some point I decided to do something. It's like my... some point I decided to do something. It's as if my will, no, it's as if I was going with something and that thing is dead, it's not good.
Starting point is 00:31:33 It just makes an obstacle. So you have to be aware of it, what is it? Yes, why? But it's as if it's... You feel it. It's as if I was writing with a talent, but not with inspiration. Incapable, capable of making sentences, but they are not bearers. They are empty wagons. And you feel it right away? Right away.
Starting point is 00:31:53 When you read other authors, do you feel it? Not really, I'm really a good reader because I don't look for... You get involved. While you, vagabond... But when they cheated on me, for example, I don't get involved anymore. And that's where I know... What is cheating in literature? But when they cheated on me, for example, I don't get on board anymore. What is cheating in literature? Cheating is to make something up, it's to tap on it so that it works, but it doesn't work.
Starting point is 00:32:15 I don't know how to explain it. The strongest image I have is a puzzle. When you make a puzzle with different pieces, and when you weigh a little bit more to fit in, and you know you don't have to weigh yourself, you know very well that you're fucking up. I don't know. But you want to.
Starting point is 00:32:34 And you would like to move forward, you know, you find that the sky is long to make, or gauze. Yes, the blues, there are a lot less. Yes, you too, it's like there's no cloud, you know, no, no. So, and that a lot of them. Yes, me too. There was no cloud. And you see that when it's forced. It's funny because sometimes I read a book and it makes me think, why is it going there? It wasn't going there. There was a whole energy and it was going somewhere.
Starting point is 00:33:02 It didn't go there. In that case, I think the writer was scared. I had all this energy, and it was going somewhere. It didn't go anywhere. In that case, I think the writer was scared. I happen to be scared. I happen to be very, very anxious. Anxious because you're writing what she... Because of the world I'm making come, to make it come, that I let go of myself.
Starting point is 00:33:23 It doesn't matter that the world... I don't really have a judgement on what I'm doing. No, it's not true. Sometimes I have judgements. And sometimes I do it anyway. And when I do that, I'll throw it away to allow myself to do it. Because I'm like, no, I'm not... I'm like, I write it and it bothers me to write it.
Starting point is 00:33:45 You know? And then it goes, you throw it away, you throw it away. It happens between me and the trash. I love that sentence. It happens between me and the trash. Yes, madam. Because you're allowed to do that. It's important what you just said. Because you're allowed to exist.
Starting point is 00:34:01 Your head thinks about it while you're writing it. Oh yes, and anyway, for me... You don't surprise yourself. No, no, I have to write everything. Even if it's to discover a violent, a not-so-fine, a sexist, racist, all theists in the world. Even if that. I'll tell you, you'll be surprised, my little girl, but that's it. Oh no, no. Cheating, when you write, it would be a waste of ever
Starting point is 00:34:25 the place where I am right. And on top of that, it's your character. It's that shift too. Because you make it live. I don't think so much when I write. I am... It means that you become your character.
Starting point is 00:34:39 And your character with his reality, sees life... With his way. With his way, so you fall completely in love. And my judgment has no end. Well, yes, that's it. Listen, I'll tell you, when I was writing the trilogy, there was a night when I woke up in a trance saying,
Starting point is 00:34:55 you mustn't marry that guy, it's a massacre. And then I said to myself, my poor daughter, you can't do anything. You bring her there. She wants to get married, she can't do anything. You bring her there. She wants to get married, she wants to escape from something through... She's going to the Caribbean. That many women did at the time. Yes, because we were a burden for the family if we weren't married,
Starting point is 00:35:17 unless we were the old man's stick. Not everyone wanted to be the old man's stick. I started writing that morning and I said to myself, you're talking about a dream, you know, well, she'll do it. And I know she'll do it. It also shows how dedicated I am. I'm not there to be a censor, I'm not there to organize the world. The world explodes as it is.
Starting point is 00:35:45 People explode as they are, even if they don't suit me. And I'm as much a man as a woman. I remember when Nick was doing things and he said, Oh, that's bad. But it was bad with him, with his kind of charm and all that. And it was okay. I knew very well how he was. I knew very well how he thought. I knew him from within. There's no one who looks like me that I know.
Starting point is 00:36:13 That's why I don't write anything that looks like me or that has people from my life. It's like going through 18 filters and coffee. So at one point, even I don't know where it comes from. There are things that I write I was But we're at home. And then my father came. He didn't look like Papa, but he wasn't Papa. You know, we're all the time... Well, it's as if our imagination was organizing something quite foreign in our universe so that we can pitch in the emotions that we don't want to recognize in our universe.
Starting point is 00:36:59 And there's that in writing. So, even for me, it's important that I... For example, that I never give my mother's first name to a character. It's impossible. Because it doesn't become a character. No, it's fatal. Unless you write a biography, but it wouldn't be a character. We would be elsewhere. We would be elsewhere in the truth of things, and not in the imaginary. But I am deeply solitary and imaginary.
Starting point is 00:37:28 I'm going to ask you the following question, Marie. When I look at myself in the mirror, I see... Always a surprise. It must be 20 years that I haven't had that face. I mean, I haven't been that old. I look at myself and I say, no, there's... I remember the day. That was in Europe, we were in a tour, and in the hotel where we were, there was a huge mirror, like Lyon in France sometimes, with two stones and a cape.
Starting point is 00:38:00 It was above, we were going up the stairs and then we were falling in front. And I go up the stairs and I say, hey mom! On le dessus, on montait l'escalier, puis là on tombait devant. Et je monte l'escalier, puis là je fais, « Hein, maman? » J'ai fait, « Si bol, j'en sens ma maman à ce point-là. » Je pensais que c'était ma mère, tellement que j'y ressemblais. Ça ne t'avait pas frappé avant? Non, jamais. C'est en prenant de l'âge à un moment donné qu'on se rend compte qu'on ne peut pas trahir nos origines. Mais c'est vrai qu'on change, hein? Mais c'est vrai, des fois on ne ressemble pas, puis c'est vrai qu'en vieillissant, moi aussi, je ressemble beaucoup plus à ma mère qu'avant.
Starting point is 00:38:24 Maintenant, oui, oui. Oui, oui. Mais moi, j'ai fait… T'as eu ça tout d'un coup, là. Sometimes we don't look alike, and it's true that as I get older, I look a lot more like my mother than before. Now, yes. Yes, yes. But I'm not saying that. You had that all of a sudden. Yes, I was like my mother. I had to admit that I look like my mother as I get older. But as I get older, I look in the mirror and I can see that the girl I'm living with is much younger,
Starting point is 00:38:44 and she looks a lot more like the one I had when I was 30, than the one I had when I was 74, it makes me think, OK, it's me, OK. I'm forced to do it, but it's not really my cup of tea. I'm not obsessed with that. In fact, I think I accept. I'm rather consenting, because aging is something that doesn't happen to everyone. Of course we forget it, we're in good health,
Starting point is 00:39:15 we care a lot about those who are not in good health, but that's not true. We are in good health, just a thing like mental health. We never think about it, that we are in shape, just like mental health. We never think that we are in mental health. We sleep at night, we wake up in the morning, we want to get up, we have coffee and we love it. So loving it means having a good feeling. All of this is free in our mind until the day we don't want to get up anymore,
Starting point is 00:39:46 or when we walk with heavy feet, or when our hearts are falling into our heels. And I haven't been thinking about this for so long. You're in shape, but you also have your head and your heart in the same place. You see well. And you're able to have relationships with people. And you're not under the threat of something like, my God, if I open the door, what's going to happen? You know, all these things that I see in the world,
Starting point is 00:40:15 that I deeply feel with people, I have a mental health. I know that generally, we say that the day we can't have it. So much, you're right. Did you ever lose your health? Did your coffee taste less good one day? No, I didn't have that. I didn't have that. But I went to a lot of people who had that. I tried to hold their hands so that they could cross that stream, which was still quite torrential. It's a torrent that we have to cross when we're at risk. But you're right to say that we often look at our blood test,
Starting point is 00:40:49 I'm in shape, I don't have cholesterol, my iron rate is good, in any case, no matter, we know all the creatines, in any case, there are plenty of things. But it's true that there is no evaluation of mental health unless it doesn't help. Unless you're aware that you, a lot of things. But it's true that there is no evaluation of mental health unless it doesn't go well. Unless you are stupid to forget a lot of things. I forget people's names and it pisses me off, but well, excuse me for saying that. But it's because it happens, it seems, normally. But it's true that we don't pay attention to this treasure that is life.
Starting point is 00:41:27 Yes, because everything changes when we lose mental health too. Everything changes, it's over. It's over because the body is decadent. It's as if all of a sudden we were faking it internally and everything else is faking it. And we are no longer able to have relationships, we are no longer able to hear others. I've seen it so much. Yes, and there is really a way to undertake... Oh, it's leverage. ...to emerge from that too.
Starting point is 00:41:50 Yes, yes. What courage! Absolutely. It's awful. It's something we don't talk about enough. We talk about it more than before, but when people need help, often they lack resources. They lack resources and their loved ones are helpless.
Starting point is 00:42:06 It's so complicated to manage. You can't manage that. There are people who say, but come back, it's not the same. Or they sleep a little and it will get worse. They don't sleep. It's not a lack of sleep. No. And being afraid is a good thing, but it doesn't calm you down. There are people who are in terror.
Starting point is 00:42:28 Yes. Yes. And well, you have to realize when you don't have it, it's still something in life. I imagine if I had to sit in front of my table, in front of the sea, and suddenly it's just that I'm afraid. I can't write. Listen, it's over. I'm looking for a rope. It's clear.
Starting point is 00:42:47 When we get older, our friends, our friends, often also get older. Do you find yourself young in your gang? Do you find yourself... It's like you're the oldest. I feel young because I'm, actually, curiosity, desire. I'm inhabited by desire. The desire to see, to understand, to go and discover things.
Starting point is 00:43:14 I'm completely still as alive as when I was 15. Maybe less chatty, maybe. And even unsure. Ha ha ha! I think not. Ha ha ha! But there is in me such an appetite to live. There is in me such a ferociousness. Always.
Starting point is 00:43:36 Always. I believe in the other. You never slowed down, you never turned off that. Your light is always on. Never. Well, yes, someone had already told me that. You're always in the mood. I said, well, why do I turn it off? What an idea! Then I can rest. It's like a kind of flat thing. I don't like that.
Starting point is 00:43:55 Is it exhausting for those around you? Yes. That, yes. I know that. I see it. And it's tiring, you know. Even, you know, sometimes it's annoying. It it's even hard to understand why I do that. I was already doing that, why did I do that? I think it would be a bad idea to try to slow down. I think it would be a bad idea. I must also say that when I'm in a period of writing, I'm really a writing period, I'm really all alone too.
Starting point is 00:44:26 It's my rhythm, it's my deep rhythm. I work very hard, but at the same time, I'm like at the heart of the urge to live. And at the heart of that, it's so strong, it gives me everything. But also, you make characters live. I mean, you make hearts beat. There's a lot of people. Yes, but characters live for real. It's something to give life, to give meaning.
Starting point is 00:44:55 And these characters will exist. We talked about it. For others, these characters become living too. You make characters live in other people's homes. I can understand how you feel when you have this gift of writing, this ease of writing, to make scenarios, to immerse yourself completely in this story. To have creativity, to have talent, and to also have the energy to do it,
Starting point is 00:45:24 because it takes energy. Yes, it's work. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of concentration. That's the thing I feared the most, to have disappeared as I got older. Because I thought, probably by the time I'm 60, my little daughter will be less able to concentrate. And no, touching all the wood in the world, no, my concentration is intact. I can work and stay focused for hours. And did you already have, you know, like a... Because there are a lot of people like that, it's like, well, after 65 years, I'm going to slow down, it's going to be retirement,
Starting point is 00:45:57 I'm looking for the landing pad, because, well, you never had this barrier at that time. Never. Never. And I'm so happy to have a job that allows me to continue. It's for sure that if I was in the operating room, standing on my two feet, I would probably be able to do it at 75. Yes. There are people who work and don't like what they do. So you never thought that way. It's important to say that too, because sometimes we make scenarios
Starting point is 00:46:31 that come from nowhere, but that's how it is. You have to make the plane land, but you can do other things. You have to move forward, you have to try not to deny how you are, how you're going. de pas nier comment on est, comment on va. Ça, moi, je suis pas très attentive au mot. Là, présentement, je suis en train d'entendre ma sœur me dire, pas très attentive, tu l'ignores totalement. C'est ça, si je suis pas bien. Si je suis en train d'écrire, par exemple,
Starting point is 00:47:00 puis que j'ai un gros rhume, j'arrêterai pas d'écrire. Si je ne vais pas bien, je vais continuer, puis c'est tout. I would not stop writing if I was not feeling well. I would continue and that's it. I had already cleared the stairs in the morning. My pantouf had slipped and I had cleared the whole staircase before I could write. It was the trilogy. I was going to get a bag of nipples in the freezer. I sat down and continued writing. But I'm not a moomoon. That's for sure. But do you know when people like you, sometimes we tell them,
Starting point is 00:47:28 we want to help them, we want their good, and it looks more like a joke than anything else? It's irritating to ask you what I can do to help you. No, especially, that's already not so bad. But they make me say, stop, you have to rest, you don't have good blood. It makes me sick. I don't understand. Do you know they're a little bit right? Yes. That's what keeps you in the back.
Starting point is 00:47:51 Absolutely. That you're not like someone else. Yes, but in addition, it's because it's the end that I don't like. I don't like that. Your sister knows you. Oh, a lot. A lot too much! But it's good to be able to have someone who knows us so much. Absolutely. It's precious.
Starting point is 00:48:14 And vice versa, I know her too. You are able to tell your four truths. Oh, yes. It's sure that her ascitation would be, well, let's see, probably, because you have to understand chemistry. Yes, yes, yes, and we are quite direct. I imagine, I listen to you, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
Starting point is 00:48:28 I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
Starting point is 00:48:36 I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
Starting point is 00:48:44 I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm talking about one of my sisters, because we are six girls in our house. But the youngest one who works with me is someone with whom... No, there's no such thing. We get angry at the same things. I know very well when I push her, and she knows when she does it too. We know each other, we know our... Our low and our high. That's fascinating, when we get to know that. Absolutely, absolutely.
Starting point is 00:49:06 Because she knows your story, she knows where you come from too. Is that why? No, because she's younger than me. So she missed a bit. She missed a bit, but I missed her last. No, I think it's really her way of loving me. It's really a way, and it's the same. When we love people, we excuse things that we would excuse in no other way. We accept things. We accept them as they are. Do you see yourself as a big sister, and you as the little sister?
Starting point is 00:49:37 No. It's been like that for a long time. I've been her big sister for a long time. Yes, yes, yes. Her protector and everything. But that, no. we are two troopers, we are two capable of moving forward together, we travel well together, we are... no, no, it's really... You trust her. Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh yes, yes, yes, I have no doubt. I think she has absolute
Starting point is 00:50:02 trust in me. No, that's very, very important. I couldn't work with someone I don't trust. Or I would be always catching up on things where I know there are soft clutches. Yes, absolutely. We are well surrounded. Yes, that's important. Otherwise, it doesn't work. No matter what we do in life, who we are, to be well surrounded.
Starting point is 00:50:22 Ah, it's fundamental. Yes, because after that, if you are badly surrounded, We are not going to be able to do that. We are going to be able to do that. We are going to be able to do that. We are going to be able to do that. We are going to be able to do that. We are going to be able to do that. We are going to be able to do that. We are going to be able to do that. We are going to be able to do that.
Starting point is 00:50:38 We are going to be able to do that. We are going to be able to do that. We are going to be able to do that. We are going to be able to do that. We are'll only be told by someone we love, who respects us, and we'll hear it. And who understands without understanding, but who understands by them. That's it. And we'll accept. And we do the same with the other. So when we're not confident, we do things differently, and we move away from our truth.
Starting point is 00:50:56 We verify. We're always checking. Did you make any mistakes? Okay. When you establish how we walk, we walk the same way. Yes, after that we let it go. Yes. That's the best way. Yellow card, yellow level, you go in PG4. Okay, and that's the level closer to me.
Starting point is 00:51:16 Yes, that's it. That's more specific. People trying to beat the winter blues. We could try hot yoga. Too sweaty. We could go skating. Too icy. We could book a vacation. Like somewhere hot? Yeah, with pools. And a spa. And endless snacks.
Starting point is 00:51:33 Yes! Yes! Yes! With savings of up to 40% on Transat South packages, it's easy to say, so long to winter. Visit Transat.com or contact your Marlin travel professional for details. Conditions apply. Air Transat.com or contact your Marlin Travel Professional for details. Conditions apply. Air Transat. Travel moves us. What did you not receive from your family and what did you miss? What is your couple concept? What character trait did you inherit from your mother?
Starting point is 00:52:12 What is your relationship to loneliness? Well, it's clear that we've already talked about loneliness. We've already talked about it, so it would be redundant. So what did you not receive from your family and what did you miss? What is your couple concept? What character trait did you not receive from your family that you missed? What is the conception of the couple? What traits of character do you have inherited from your mother? My mother. Let's talk about your mother. What was her name?
Starting point is 00:52:33 Rita. Let's talk about Rita. She said it like I just said. Rita. Rita. It was a bad number. She was an extremely creative and frustrated woman. She had talent, she had a voice, a singer's voice,
Starting point is 00:52:53 she had an extraordinary drawing skills. But she stopped all of that when she got married, and she had seven children, excuse me, and there were certainly five children, excuse me. And she had seven children, and she had five too. It wasn't a woman who wanted to have that many. We're talking about the years. She got married in 1943, I don't know, the end of the war. And it started right away.
Starting point is 00:53:23 After one year, she had one, and after another year, she had another. And it was going on all the war. And it started right away. After a year, there was one, and after another year, there was another. And it was happening all the time. And the question is impatience. I had impatience from her. It was impatience. But not quite. What are your memories of her when you say that? What are the images that come?
Starting point is 00:53:42 Oh, it's someone who never understands why things didn't happen, why it didn't happen, why... But what is it? And all the time, forced to... She was... She had a bad mood. We'll say it. She had a bad mood. She had too much. She had too much. Everything was too much for her. Everything was too much all the time.
Starting point is 00:54:06 Then the questions, then the... It's on the left, you can see well. You know when the station's drawer makes a lot of noise instead of saying, «Batence», that's it. I would say the trait of character that I had was impatience. And it's weird because impatience is a defect that has a quality side. If I hadn't been impatient, I wouldn't have done everything I've done in my life. I wouldn't have written everything I've written. But there's something in me that wants to keep going and we go. So it's the good side.
Starting point is 00:54:39 The bad side is when things annoy me, when it shouldn't. You know, it takes time to listen. It's funny because I'm very impatient, but not always with the children. And not always with corrections. I correct with incredible patience. Even I don't get it. I say, yes, I'll start again, because I'm not sure about that.
Starting point is 00:55:04 Then I start again, and I read, and, I'll start again because I'm not sure about that. Then I start again, I read, then I correct. But then with the children, and even with the animals, because that's for sure. But with the children, I can repeat ten times. With a guy, three times is too much. Because in your writing, it's in front of yourself. Yes. But is that so with a guy, you mean with a lover? A lover who asks 12 times the same question,
Starting point is 00:55:27 at what time did we get married, I don't remember. I'm like, look, there's something missing in your head. Or you write it down. This is the third time, I've already done that. This is the third time I tell you, and it's the last. So if you never know at what time, well, get ready. So a child, then you're good.
Starting point is 00:55:45 A child can start over. Already three times, I find it quite indulgent, right? But what is the other person's look when you say that in that way? It doesn't work. It doesn't work. Especially when it's a tick of carelessness, not being there. Not being at home. attention, not to be there. Yes. Not to be in a hurry. And that, it's for sure that in my impatience,
Starting point is 00:56:07 people who are not there, it annoys me. The quality of presence is important. Yes, yes. You didn't listen to that. Did you listen to it when I told you the important thing? Do you just listen to what you like or what? Or is it just a... No, no, I know you know.
Starting point is 00:56:24 It's like someone who says, you're better at grocery shopping than me because you remember, you, the things you have to buy. A list of grocery stores, that exists. You find the solution. Did that bring you to break relationships? No, not that. That would be like the appearance of reasons. I understand.
Starting point is 00:56:46 But for me, someone who doesn't listen, someone who doesn't hear, it's someone who is not with you. And being alone with two people is the worst of solitude. It's an unbearable solitude. Because you're directed to the other, you hope to have communication, and it's empty. There's a shell called a human body, but it's not there. And that, for me, that's over. Did you experience it?
Starting point is 00:57:15 Oh, sure. Who hasn't experienced a conjugal absence? While being present, of course. And did you withdraw from that you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, I don't want to, I'm not well, I don't feel like we're together. Being alone together, no. To have a nightmare in a bed when you're alone, you wake up and you console yourself. To have a nightmare in a bed with someone you wake up to
Starting point is 00:58:00 and you don't wake up and say, I'm scared, I dreamed of a monster, and then I put it in you. Without even doing a little tap-tap-tap on your shoulder. No. No, no. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. I want to go back to your mother. Yes. You say, she was a great creator, my mother. Do you have the impression like she was... You know, you need solitude to create. You need your space, your rituals, your physical place. Do you feel like she knew she needed that, but she couldn't do it?
Starting point is 00:58:36 Not even. I don't think she was there. No. She had talents, but she never developed them enough. And she never even had the courage, that's what I was going to say, but I kept it, but I say it the same way. She never had the courage to try. I think it was beyond her capabilities. She had no confidence in herself. So it's sure that self-esteem takes a bit of ego.
Starting point is 00:59:06 She still had an ego. Be careful. You can be empty of self-esteem and have a very powerful ego. It's an extremely flat balance to hold on to. Because you're always in the same boat with yourself. Always. But no, no, it was... I don't think that in her generation, she didn't have a background,
Starting point is 00:59:31 even if she had. I have always recognized her talents, but she, no, it was over, it belonged to her youth, no, I just bought her a whole panoply of pens, with pads and all that. I bought it in Paris, I remember. She had never opened it. And what did she think of you? What did she think of me? I don't know. I think she was proud of my renaming.
Starting point is 01:00:04 But for me, it's as empty as a chip. Because it was in relation to the outside world, in relation to others. But has she ever told you, has she ever told you? Has she ever mentioned her pride? No. Yes, her pride, yes. But her love? No. No, no, no, no, no. No, I think she was...
Starting point is 01:00:30 She had a hard time loving herself, so her life was complicated. I think she was someone who needed a lot. She needed it. I felt that all the time. But she had a lot of pride for me, besoin. Ça, je le sentais tout le temps. Mais elle avait beaucoup de fierté pour moi, mais c'était une fierté qui ne regardait rien avec moi ou avec ce que je faisais vraiment. C'était ce que les gens disaient. Si j'avais une mauvaise critique, ma mère, surtout en théâtre, parce que c'était le bout de carrière qu'elle avait plus suivi, mais c'était effrayant. It was the end of her career that she had been following. But it was scary.
Starting point is 01:01:06 I called Jacqueline, I called here, I called there. Why is he saying that? It was scary for her. In the eyes of others, always. Always, always, always. Yes, yes, yes. Did you miss that in your life, that recognition of your mother,
Starting point is 01:01:22 or that love? I think she did what she could. And I don't think it was much. So you're at peace with that? I'm always sad when I think of her. For her. For her. But I'm someone who's very maternal so she needed a mother a lot in me. So I wasn't really a very little girl. I was a very young girl. So it's okay.
Starting point is 01:01:55 I'm sure she did what she could. And it's the same with my father. For me, people do what they can. We can't even ask them to go beyond. If they can't go beyond, you just have to not wait for it. So, when... Did I wait for that? I don't think so.
Starting point is 01:02:17 But I listen to you talk and I feel like there's a great maturity in that. Oh, yes, I have to. I have to give myself back. Yes, because there are some who don't come back. That's true. And that kills me. Because we created our life, we built it. Yes, we've had obstacles.
Starting point is 01:02:36 Everyone has obstacles. What is an obstacle for me, it's not for you. And vice versa. That's okay. But what we do with it, if we are victims of the entrave all our lives, people who tell me, I can't do that, I've never had that. What are you doing? Are you reduced to being a subproduct of what you've missed? It's still incredible for me. For me it's...
Starting point is 01:03:00 It's the end of evolution. Well yes, and it's... Let's see, I don't have a mother, so I can't be a mother. No, no, no, no, no. Let's see. You had a mother with defects, well, identify her, and go ahead, fill her up. You're not going to say it's going to be easy, but it's possible. Of course. Let's see.
Starting point is 01:03:17 If we're condemned to the repetition of what preceded us, we're screwed. It's as simple as that. And the whole world is. If we consider how the world has been, all the wars and everything. No, there's a way to improve the portrait a little. For me, that's all. At what point in your life did you understand what your mother was going through?
Starting point is 01:03:37 You were able to accept that and say, Look, she gave me what she could because when you're in it, It's before you live it. Thank God. It's before you live it. There are things in my mother that I never found fun or accepted. It was conflictual for me. And my solution was to move away.
Starting point is 01:03:59 And to give her my presence otherwise, like by writing to her. Very often I wrote, and she kept everything. So that was the good thing. It wasn't me. Because it was conflictual. And I didn't want to be a part of the same mess. And I didn't want to listen to things that shocked me either. And you couldn't cut ties either?
Starting point is 01:04:23 No, never. I couldn't do that. No, no, no. I'm someone from the family too. But she counted on you, that's what I hear too. Yes, of course, of course. She never doubted that if she called me, I would come. And she was right. My father was the same. I'm reliable. I'm really a reliable girl. When I like people, I'm there. And I don't make mistakes. If I make mistakes, it's because I really don't have legs anymore. But otherwise, I'm reliable.
Starting point is 01:04:54 What moment do you remember the most that you spent with them? There was a very beautiful thing that happened. My mother was singing a Christmas song that no one sings, the Christmas of the little birds. And I remember that one day I went to see her, it was Christmas time, and it was not long before her death. Well, she was very young then. And we sang this song together, and I said, I'm not able to remember words, and all that.
Starting point is 01:05:27 And she said, yes, and then we sang it with an old voice, you know, a more trembling voice. And it was so pretty, it was so Christmas, the little birds she sang when I was very little. That it was, and it's funny because, as she died two months later, she died like that, my mother, of an embolism. Okay, so no sign of a precursor. No, she was operated on, she had a first embolism.
Starting point is 01:05:57 And then it was okay, she got out of the hospital and died in five minutes. No, it was her, She would have died immediately. She would have wanted to die. She was impatient, like when we turn off the light. Stop! Good evening. That was her vision. The shock was for us. It was a bit of a shock, but it was for her.
Starting point is 01:06:24 She died at 87, but hey, it was still for her. It was not at all. She died at 87, but in top shape. That is to say, again, you know, with the energy. The energy I have, it comes from her. I was really born next to the generator. She didn't do her own adductions. Well, strangely, as she was in the hospital because she had been operated on for the hip, because she had fallen, so we were all going to see her. All of us. All of her children came,
Starting point is 01:06:51 she had had her whole world, and even my sister Mimi, she had just left the room. The time to go home, my other sister called her to say, Mom is dead, but let's see, she said, I just left her, she was doing very well. And it's like that. But that was really perfect. Because all the people she... all those she wanted to see at the OVU, and...
Starting point is 01:07:17 And you all have your moment with her. Yes. Yes. So this song for you, it's positive, it's a beautiful memory. Absolutely, it's a beautiful memory. Absolutely, it's a beautiful memory. That's all she was able to give me, but it's... It's always sad when you ask people who aren't able to give things, you ask them for those things. It's... Maybe it's the age, but it makes me...
Starting point is 01:07:38 My God, we're wasting time trying to work hard to get something that we can't have. We can't. It goes to someone who can give it. But you know, to recognize that she gave what she could. Yes. You know, to say that already means a lot. But that's so much.
Starting point is 01:08:00 But I think we have to learn from that. Because there are so many people who are making progress in their lives and who are still in the process of... In a corner, in a narrow space. Yes, with lots of ifs. If I had... Oh yes, yes, yes. If it had been like you, for example. If I had a chance.
Starting point is 01:08:22 Yes, yes, that's it. Yes, yes, well, like Jean said, oh my God, if I had a chance. Yes, yes, that's it. Yes, yes, but how many people ever say, Oh my God, if I had a chance, I would have written. It's the simplest thing in the world. A pencil, a paper, a pen, you had to do it. Let's see, let's see. It doesn't take a computer to write. It's not a chance.
Starting point is 01:08:38 It's a job, it's a vocation, it's something you decide to do. You can do it at any time of the day or night, depending on the time. There's nothing more... That's it. So if we don't do it, it's funny because recently I met someone who said, I'm going to write this thing.
Starting point is 01:08:55 I met... I said, shut up, write it down. Don't say what you want to write, you won't do it. No, because it's already in the past. Yes, you've opened the it. No, because it's already in the past. Yes, you've opened the egg. Yes. No.
Starting point is 01:09:09 Michel Jean, I wrote a story called La Couveuse a few years ago, and I had done the book rooms, and I did a few with Michel Jean. And I remember we were in Edmonton, we were eating, what are they called? You know, the little pancakes that make... I forget the name. They make pancakes from Sarazin in Edmonton. Oh, they're like a galette. It's ridiculous that I forget the name.
Starting point is 01:09:34 I'm sure people will write it to us. It's not a big deal. We'll find it. I know. Yes, yes, yes. That's it. It's really... But we were having dinner together one evening. I said, I hope I'll find the time to write again because it's something I liked to do. I did it once, it's not complicated. You open your notebook and you write.
Starting point is 01:09:52 And he said that? Yes, he said that to me. Don't wait for the nerve. No, no, no, the Holy Spirit doesn't disappoint us. Exactly. Don't wait. Since I was going to a chalet, I bought a tablecloth and put it in front of the river. I saw the common rorcal in the morning.
Starting point is 01:10:09 So I said, don't understand that. He said, I read you, I like your way of writing, I like your movement. So you have to write. I said, with the children. You have to write again. That's all. It's true that it's too Romanesque in my head. Writing, especially not writing necessarily, but in order to publish, writing in the pleasure of this state of freedom, where everything can become alive, everything is possible in writing.
Starting point is 01:10:40 Anyway, if we write thinking about the edition, we're not in the right place. No. No. No, because writing is writing. And the edition is rereading, correcting, reviewing, and bringing the book. When you write, if you think about the reader, you're done. That's it. So you have to tell people to have fun. Yes! Well yes! The question I ask you is, what is your concept of the couple? She's a bit clumsy.
Starting point is 01:11:06 Ha ha ha ha! I never got married, but I still had some... So when I say I got married, I mean, I had some great mothers and then some... I mean, I knew the other family. But I don't know... I'm a very, very engaged single woman. Because anyway, at some point, I'm a very, very committed single woman. Because, anyway, at some point, I'm going to leave. I have to go write.
Starting point is 01:11:30 And when I'm going to write, the guy doesn't follow me. And you're going to be gone for a long time? Yes, I'm going to be gone for a few months. And the guy doesn't follow you? No, I don't want to. Even if there was, let's say, freedom and the desire to follow me, I wouldn't want to. No, no. But I have a conception.
Starting point is 01:11:51 For example, I lived once with someone and then it was over. I keep my apartment. The thing that was in fashion, that everyone went to his place, I've always had that too. place. J'ai toujours eu ça aussi. J'ai une conception extrêmement protégeante de mes libertés, mais je suis quand même capable d'être un couple, mais disons que c'est demandant pour un conjoint. Oui, c'est ça. J'imagine qu'il y en a par rapport à ça. Peut-être que c'est plus difficile à concevoir. Ou à accepter.
Starting point is 01:12:23 À accepter, oui. Bien oui, bien sûr. To accept, yes. Yes, of course. Yes, freedom has a price. It's true. Most people say they want independent women, but they don't like that, in the end. That I can say.
Starting point is 01:12:35 Most men don't like independent women. They like fortune, everything. So it didn't always serve you, in love? In love, it was ordinary. Yes, it's true. But we can't be someone else than we are. And I...
Starting point is 01:12:56 If it doesn't work, I'm out. I don't know... Did you pay the price for that? Always. We always pay the price for that? Always, we always pay the price for things. Freedom is things for which you have to sacrifice other things. That's for sure.
Starting point is 01:13:15 But I don't know, I find that, if I look at it, I find that even in love, I had a good life, I loved it. Did I meet what people call the man of their lives? You know, I don't have that. No, I have several, but I don't have one. I don't have an emblematic figure of love in my life. I don't have that. Did you look for it? Not sure.
Starting point is 01:13:46 I'm a woman of desire. I'm a sensual woman. So I... I'm drooling. And then... But I looked for it. Of course I looked for love. I would say...
Starting point is 01:14:02 Sustainable love? Why does it last? Because the people I loved, I still love them. You still love them. I still love them. I don't waste time loving them when the relationship is over. For me, the investment that is there, it is there. I know them, I love them, I will not live with them anymore, but I respect them. And then I have... There are two in there with whom I still have relationships with.
Starting point is 01:14:11 I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them.
Starting point is 01:14:19 I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with them. I have a live with them anymore, but I respect them. There are two of them in there with whom I still have constant relationships. I'm not a person.
Starting point is 01:14:33 It's funny because one of the first real partners I had, at one point he called me and said, it's going to be 50 years since we met. I said, oh yeah, okay. He said, we're going to celebrate it. He said met. I said, oh yeah. I said, okay. He said, we're going to celebrate it. He said, because I don't think we'll have a 50th anniversary with anyone else. I said, okay, come on, we're going to have a meal. You celebrated your 50th anniversary.
Starting point is 01:14:53 We didn't celebrate together. We celebrated the 50th anniversary because we didn't have one or the other, another partner with whom we could have done that. So it gives a little bit of the spirit. So that's it. And then there's another one. We talk every day. It's really someone who bit of the spirit. So that's it. And then there's another one. We talk every day. It's really someone who's a great friend.
Starting point is 01:15:08 But, you know, I'm passionate too. It's tiring. Are you bored when there's no passion anymore? Well, there's never been passion. It doesn't last long. You don't have it anymore. Well, I'm good. Seven years, you know. It's about seven and a half, it's about my top.
Starting point is 01:15:27 But at the same time, I can't talk for hours about my conception of the couple. For me, the important thing is to respect each other and respect the other. Yes, to be good, to be good. Yes, to be good. But if the other, if the other is dragging the leg, if the other is heavy, you know, someone who puts his arm on your shoulder, but it's so heavy that you're walking on the ground, that's not what I call a couple. For me, that's not it.
Starting point is 01:15:56 The rites, the habits, it's for sure that it can hold a couple, but for me, it's not... it's not extraordinary. It's not enough. Presently, are you in a relationship? No. No. And a 74-year-old girl, I just want to say, it's rare that someone is interested in that, as if it were a woman. At what point did you notice that men changed? 60 years. From about 60 years, we're less f. We're less boring, but we're not less interesting. I know that. And then...
Starting point is 01:16:35 Was it difficult, that observation you made? No, no, it's done quietly. As we move forward, no. If in my life I was no longer able to write, then we would be in the presence of someone really unfortunate, someone who is not well. I am not unfortunate. I am not in hope of finding a good job. But you are open to that. Absolutely, absolutely. A little pleasure, why not? No, no, no, no, I totally agree. But if it becomes...
Starting point is 01:17:08 It's like obstruction. At some point, you feel like you're not moving forward on a free path. You know, you're moving forward, you know, it's like... It pulls, it pulls back. That, I don't want that in my life. But it's still an important step, a step when you realize that the other's look changes on you. Yes, but even more so...
Starting point is 01:17:33 So you don't feel inside, there's no barrier. No, no, no, it doesn't move that much. But I would say it's funny to say because I don't feel like I'm someone who ends up in seduction or in trouble. No, not at all. I don't have that feeling at all. And maybe it comes from the fact that, as I'm someone known, people talk to me. People still find me interesting. Maybe they don't find me cute at all, that's possible. You're beautiful. No, at some point, I wonder why at some why at some point, you felt the look of the other, you felt that it was changing. Well, that means that yes, it's not going that far.
Starting point is 01:18:12 You know, you're beautiful. Maybe because… Beautiful, I'm also talking about the inside, I don't just want what you feel when you're seen. You're really a radiant woman. You're alive. Yes, exactly. You feel it can't be flat. That's it.
Starting point is 01:18:29 But it's not that I can't be flat, and when it's flat, I'm leaving. Yes, that's it. It's just that. Maybe the judgment that's underneath, when it's flat, I'm leaving, it's, you're a little flat, my man. I know that it's not easy to manage. And I understand. If someone says to me, hey, you're flat. or you're suffocating me, you're annoying me, then I would say, yes, it's me.
Starting point is 01:18:51 But it's just that sexuality is like, it's like suddenly people say, oh, we're not going that way. But I'm not extinct. I apologize, but I'm not extinct. And I don't need a guy 50 years younger than me to get me on fire. I don't have that. Do you feel like it's a taboo, sexuality? Well, yes. After 60 years.
Starting point is 01:19:20 After 60 years, yes. Or after 65. Yes, yes, yes. Let's say after 70, I'm still in the gang. So yes, of course, of course, of course. It must not... It's like, do you have the impression that there is no more sexuality after 70 years? Well, in the mind of people.
Starting point is 01:19:35 In the mind of people, yes. Yes, in the mind of very young people, even after 50 years, I hope they don't kiss anymore. It's like it's become obscene. Yes, I've heard that. It becomes obscene. It's more beautiful. It's more beautiful. It's going to be fun. No, but it's for sure that taking off my T-shirt in a white shirt and put it on, I agree when you're 20, when you're 30, 40, 50, it's okay.
Starting point is 01:19:55 But let's say there's a moment when you don't take it off so easily and then you lower your cheek a little. Did your look change on aging people too? Yes. Yes. I often find them a little slow. Often... But when they're on, they're on. For me, someone who's on, I don't look at their age.
Starting point is 01:20:17 You know, there are people who are very young. I find that if you look at them, you don't see them often. Oh, yes. You know, they look at the screen a lot, and not at the person in front of them. Sometimes you feel like if you were doing a FaceTime, you would be more of a looker than if you were in front of them. I understand. But you, you say,
Starting point is 01:20:37 I have the impression that at some point, people look at me less. Or with concupiscence. Exactly. But in your case, or if it happens to men, your look... I mean, if I look, I look. I look. I like it when you talk about that. I look.
Starting point is 01:20:56 But I would say that often I look and I'm like, no, it's going to feel like the old drawer. You don't wait for me. We'll go later. I was going to ask questions, but we'll wait for the level rose because there's a lot of No, it will make the old man feel like a There are people who don't have any. But it's possible that you didn't have any before either. It doesn't mean that you didn't have any before, that you'll have one older, older or older, but it doesn't mean that there's an age where it stops.
Starting point is 01:21:33 No, that's right. The seduction of the ages. It's not a stage of life. So even if, well, sometimes we'll say, I know it's Ginette, she said, we're doing tenderness, no matter how we name it, the intimacy remains. The intimacy between two individuals, no matter. But this intimacy is there.
Starting point is 01:21:54 There is still a need to feel that we can exist in the eyes of someone else, but also that we can have an intimate relationship, no matter the shape. Yes, that is to say that it's not always, I presume, sexuality is brazen when you are 30 years old, it can be, but then... But it still exists, for example. Obviously. Wow, look! I can't wait to get to the red level. We'll think about the red level, after that we'll get to the red level. We'll get to the red level. After that, we'll get to the red level.
Starting point is 01:22:26 What's that? It's more intimate. You'll see. You're in trouble. is a passionate artist who puts her career on hold to stay home with her young son. But her maternal instincts take a wild and surreal turn as she discovers the best, yet fiercest, part of herself. Based on the acclaimed novel, Nightbitch is a thought-provoking and wickedly humorous film from Searchlight Pictures. Stream Nightbitch January 24 only on Disney Plus. You have no regrets? No. Did I neglect cleaning? Who wants to do that? What was the most
Starting point is 01:23:32 challenging period of your life? It's funny. I'm not answering anything. It's not the end. I want to hear to answer nothing. Okay, okay, because no, I have no regrets. And there are a lot of regrets, neglecting things, and a painful period, it's all going to hang with this locomotive.
Starting point is 01:23:56 But I... There have been very, very difficult moments in my life, in my life, for me. All the breaks have been very difficult. It's always been difficult. There are four marriages that I've been in love with, or that I've been in love with. And when you're in love with a relationship, you're always a little bit in the wrong direction all of a sudden. It's for sure that a love break is a question mark, automatically.
Starting point is 01:24:22 And it's good, it's perfect. I've always said, it's like cleaning. How did you find a balance? Well, no, it's finding balance because you don't have the echo you had. And then you wonder what you did with the hook, then you wonder what you could have done. Did you get left behind? Yes, a lot. Oh yes, gladly. Oh no, but I can be in trouble if I like someone.
Starting point is 01:24:42 I would have thought otherwise if I like someone. I would have thought the opposite with what you said. Yes, yes, but I can... But you've known the break-up. Are these the breaks you saw coming? Never. Wait, there was one that I saw coming. I should be honest, but wait a minute. I didn't really see it coming, but there were some who were there to do it. But you wouldn't have done it yourself? When it happened, I did it with some men,, I think it's funny because sometimes someone doesn't want to let you go,
Starting point is 01:25:30 but he does everything for you to let him go. And that's a very well-known tactic. It's called courage. Well, that's to say, the lack of courage. That's not what I said yesterday. Yes, that's it, the courage. To make sure that the other lack of courage. That's it. That's not what I meant. Yes, that's it. That's the courage, yes. To make sure that the other one is standing. So, that, that, that, I have, I have, and maybe that's particularly unpleasant and flat,
Starting point is 01:25:55 because you can't even put the cards on the table, finally. You can't, but hey, it happens. That's all. What do you want to do? I don't know where I went, but to be left... The first time I was left, it was extremely painful, extremely difficult, because it was done with someone I loved passionately. And I didn't understand, for good reason, because there was no explanation.
Starting point is 01:26:25 So when there was no explanation, and I understood much later that the explanation was not in measure of the formula or even of the thought, from what I understood. But at that time, I was still very lucky. I've always been lucky, or at least I've had allies in my life. I'm someone who has allies. So, his mother, the mother of this boy, who was my great-grandmother, and who was a great-grandmother that I adored, she immediately called me, she said, no, come on, come on, and then I imagine that she was going to be really angry with her son, but she never said it. Because it's a break with you in a certain way too.
Starting point is 01:27:11 Yes, that was it. You were a member of her family. She loved me a lot. She loved me a lot. And she always continued to love me. She saw everything I did. She was someone who had an intense trust in me. When I say I had allies in life, that's it. That's it. You know, the mother of the guy who left me and all that.
Starting point is 01:27:34 But how can I say? It was extremely destructive, that's for sure. Because I was passionate about him. It was like it was cutting through and we couldn't see him coming. And you see, it was like returning from a trip I had done all alone. It's like a bit like the price of freedom or independence. Complete autonomy. I'm so determined to make my life and to do it, and not to wait for anyone. While the other lives from waiting, and you live the adventure.
Starting point is 01:28:17 Yes, that's it. There was a guy who told me, you're like a guy, you know. I said, you mean I do what I want? He said yes. I said, why would it be just guys? I didn't even want to be a feminist. For me, it was like it was going to be. But anyway, that's to say that this was a moment... Yes, it's hard to be left, but I'll say one thing.
Starting point is 01:28:40 It's hard to leave someone who loves us still. It's as heavy as the opposite of being left. Because when we know we're not there, we don't want to go there anymore, that's not it. We have to say it. We have to say, it's me, it's my heart that can't give anymore. And it's very difficult. I refused love.
Starting point is 01:29:05 It takes a lot of courage. Refusing love. It's so hard because nobody will love me the same again. It's possible. But if we're not equal, if we're not... I'm not talking about the same maturity of love or the same way of loving. For me, that, do you love her more than the other? I never asked myself these questions. Never. I don't understand why we ask. For me, we love. We love and that's all.
Starting point is 01:29:35 And if we love with five feet two, we love with five feet two. And if we have six feet, we have six feet and that's all. No, there is no gradation. Except when we love ourselves through the love of the other. That's another approach. But no, I don't think it's harder to be left than to be left. Because to leave someone, it's very difficult to give up a certain form of love. And it's hurting, it's hurting. It's hard to hurt.
Starting point is 01:30:10 Do you know when you're going to announce it? We won't be there. Sometimes we've been there a lot, and we know when we need you. Intimacy is knowing exactly when the times are harder, when you need encouragement. All these things that we know that we can guess from someone when we love them, these things will no longer be there. And we know that we will deprive the person of that. Sometimes in conjugal love, there are replacements of all kinds of shortcomings in the life before. And when you leave, you know that these shortcomings will reappear and will make the person suffer.
Starting point is 01:30:52 That's my way of thinking. And you've never regretted that? No. Sometimes you have to save the boat. If you want to move forward, you can't... But it's all the reflection before, which is difficult to say. There's that. And then there's the fact that at one point, we don't go for nothing, it's because there's an inadequacy. And in the inadequacy, there's always a,
Starting point is 01:31:15 let's see, Caroline, how do you do it? And we don't talk anymore, what is that? Do we talk about it? You know, you wonder what, and then you say, I have to think. I have to think about it. It's like, do you want to say, do you want to answer now? And you think, maybe you'll give me an answer in 25 years, I'm not sure I'll be there. No.
Starting point is 01:31:35 When you say that, you think. No, no, hey, it's going to hurt. But you've had a hard time with love. Of course, of course. And it's always the same thing. When you love, that's what's important. It's not just about being happy. We know there's a price.
Starting point is 01:31:55 There's a big label with a big price on love. This year, I lost someone I loved deeply this year, during 47 years. My best friend. But every time, every time I think about his death, I tell myself, you've had it all. You've had it.
Starting point is 01:32:21 Sit down and take your strength in it. Don't make him the disgrace of saying, I still want more, I still want more. No, you're not a child. You're not a child. You're made of that love. Take it, keep it, and live with it. And don't complain.
Starting point is 01:32:46 But it's so important to know that the love we have, that the love we received, builds us forever. He's not there anymore, no. But we got him. We got him. He's in us. He built us. He made us stand up straight. It made us right. It made us a firm voice. It gives us so much love. It's so important.
Starting point is 01:33:15 It's funny because the last book I just showed talks a lot about love and death, but it was written before my friend got sick. But it's really something that you have to understand. It's not being loved, it's loving. That's what's important. If you're only loved and you're not able to love, it's hell. love is hell. It's hell. Open, open, look, consider the other, absorb it slowly,
Starting point is 01:33:56 reach out your hand. It's sharp, but it's powerful. It builds us. It brought me to ask you a question. What is your relationship with death? I can't say that I like the idea very much. I always feel like I have so much left to do. I tell myself, well, from the day I feel like I'm going to die, I'll say, can I have another two days? Two days, just two days.
Starting point is 01:34:23 But it made me negotiate something. But at the same time, it's been so much part of my life, so much for a long time. It's so much something that I know. I couldn't make my surprise. I couldn't do, huh? How to die? No, I couldn't. I know.
Starting point is 01:34:44 And I know, and it's one of my engines. When I don't know what to decide, for example, for something that will take me six months of my life, I tell myself, wait, you die in eight months, you do this. And it's clear right away. Is it important or not important? You'll see. We always live like that, we're eternal. It's always the others who will come. It's a good barème, I find what you just said. Oh yes, yes, yes.
Starting point is 01:35:09 When something, I don't know, your writing, if you say, wait, if I die in 8 months, is it important to have done? Yes, oh yes, it was necessary. Write. Sit down, find the time. And it's wonderful. Excuse me. No trouble. I find the time. And it's wonderful. Well, excuse me. Not too much. But it's wonderful because it makes a whole light, very clear.
Starting point is 01:35:30 But my relationship with death is both a relationship... I try to consent to this thing because the more I move forward, the more people die in my life. My friend who died this year, but I can, I have them in me. And it's been a very long time since I wrote that, that we become a mausoleum for the people we love, who are no longer there. And I presume that when the mausoleum is full, it's us who die. I presume that's the mausoleum is full, it's us who die. I presume that's how it is. But if we didn't have death,
Starting point is 01:36:14 we would be so envious. We would take so much time to do things, it would be unbearable. There would be maybe less respect for what we do too. Oh, we wouldn't be bad. Time changes the situation. Absolutely. And it's important to realize that it's still something, time.
Starting point is 01:36:36 I always thought that death depended on when we died. We were dying. When you die at 40, it's not the same as dying at 75 or 85. But it's not that important. The important thing is that, as long as you're there, you're there. Not in the terror that ends, but in the excitement to be there and to live. Ferri said, with time, everything will go away. What do you mean by that? With time? We do the part of things. We balance.
Starting point is 01:37:17 With time, I think we can better understand things and better understand each other. It's going faster. It's going faster. So it's good to move forward. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Everything is not fun, but it's good. Yes, you have to say it.
Starting point is 01:37:40 There is so much horror, I find, in the aging society. A kind of camouflage. There is a disgust. Yes, there is a disgust and there is a habit that we should wear camouflage to several degrees to avoid showing that we are moving forward in time, while there is a wealth through it. We have to learn from a society of both young and old, from everyone. There is a thread of life. It is also a hope to see people who are ahead of us
Starting point is 01:38:17 and who keep their curiosity, who keep their vivacity, and say, wow! I find that we have barriers for a long time, with the retirement that was a long time ago, 65 years. People lived less long, were less healthy, they were exhausted too. When they arrived, I mean, it was a retirement. And there are still people who do jobs. You say, OK, but can we dream that there is something after this barrier? Can we see people, can we say that we have a sexual life that can be active after?
Starting point is 01:38:51 I find that it makes no sense to show that we have an active life as short as that. When I hear young people say, heyHey, I retired when I was 50. » But it's because, why put barriers already before starting your life? Because you have a barrier to say «I retired at what age?» Yes, but it's also a bet. There is a bet.
Starting point is 01:39:18 Someone who tells me that, it's to do what? That's it. What's the point? And they also tell me, it's because I want to see the world, I want to go hiking, and all that. I say that's good, it's not a retirement, you know, you want to change career. You have a project. Yes, that's it, you have a project. Yes, you want to become an adventurer. Very good, you have the interest to do it in 50 years. But for me it depends, if people say, no, I'm going to be a tannic, I don't want to see the world anymore, I don't want that anymore, then they say, oh, you want to put yourself in pre-maceration of death?
Starting point is 01:39:46 What's that? Yeah, you can't do it by being in the middle of dying, it's not fun. But I think people imagine things with age. When you're young, being old, you know, the first piece I wrote was two old people on a gallery. They were 60 years old. What age would you give them now? I would give them a good 85, 87. We'll talk about that later.
Starting point is 01:40:17 I would say 100 years old maybe. What was remarkable is that when I was little, I would project myself and say to myself, Oh my God, if we didn't live, it was people who had regrets. And for me, it was terrible to have regrets. It was probably that I had made a small promise inside this room to not have regrets. You see, the promise I made one day is to never regret what I did. Actually, no, that's not it. It's better to regret what I did than not to have done it.
Starting point is 01:40:52 Absolutely. To regret not having done it versus regretting it. Because sometimes you can do something that you might not have done, but you did it and you went all the way. Otherwise, there is a doubt that settles. There are some risks. But there is more than that. There is like a kind of inner demobilization.
Starting point is 01:41:07 If you don't allow yourself to do it out of fear, you encourage fear and you don't vote for yourself. You vote for fear. Voting for fear is a bad vote. You should never let fear rule. Because in any case, it feeds itself. And you have to identify that fear. Yes.
Starting point is 01:41:27 Is it the fear of judging others? It depends on the people. That's it. Is it a physical fear? You're afraid of getting hurt, you're afraid of not being able, you're afraid of... But you have to identify the fear to face it. And I find that we often give... Fear often comes from the other who will say, but why are you doing this?
Starting point is 01:41:44 You know, you said it earlier, I'm going to be told that it's something I often do, but why are you still doing this? on donne souvent la peur vient souvent de l'autre qui va nous dire mais pourquoi tu fais ça tu sais d'antwo tu le dis moi c'est quelque chose qui est souvent je vais me faire dire mais pourquoi tu fais encore ça mais pourquoi tu arrêtes tu dis pas non mais pourquoi mais pourquoi mais pourquoi mais mais parce que j'aime ça mais je des fois quand on est dans si on va moins bien puis les gens sont comme ça des fois on va dire c'est en fait c'est la tu sais quand quelqu'un va dire mais pourquoi tu fais ça des fois c'est la peur cette personne là ne le ferait pas et elle est en train de transmettre Sometimes it's fear. That person wouldn't do it. And he's transmitting doubts, fears, to stop you. To stop you. But it's possible that your energy will shade someone. It's something that has already happened to me. Exactly. And I've heard from other people who say, I didn't do it because I was told not to do it. Who told you not to do it?
Starting point is 01:42:21 But why do they have so much power? We have to analyze that. But why that power? To where? Yes, exactly. But that's a responsibility we have. But it's hard because you have to assert yourself. And to assert yourself, you have to be someone.
Starting point is 01:42:34 You have to be someone vis-à-vis yourself. And not some kind of dirty person, you have to be someone. You have to be someone vis-à-vis yourself. And not a kind of ersatz of maybe, maybe I'll become someone one day when I grow up. And people who talk the same way, at 60, it doesn't make sense. It's like people who have reasons, that is to say, oh, my parents, you know, they did this and they did that, so I never was able to do that. I feel like, no, we have to break the responsibility at some point.
Starting point is 01:43:14 I say it's like what we are. At some point, we are responsible for our face. Not at 15, but at some point, we are responsible for what we loved, for what we are. And it's not our parents, even if there are genes in our parents, and it's not the teacher who says that, she blocked me in life, or the critic who says that. You have to do your law. And to do your law is to assert yourself and say, we're not going there. I won't let you do that. You wouldn't give that power. No. No. No. And in everything. But it takes a front, that's for sure.
Starting point is 01:43:56 Yes, and you mustn't be afraid to make a mistake. No, and I'm wrong, I'm not the worst. To make a mistake, when you try it, it seems like you know less as much as you did wrong. When you go to the end of something, you always get it. Buddhists say it's not the destination that's important, it's the path. But I believe so much in that. Of course it is. Sometimes you get to the destination, it's just that. But on the other hand, I...
Starting point is 01:44:20 We did a mess in the end. While we were doing the project, I met this person. I'm going to do other things with him. I made a friend. And finally... It's like failures. All the failures of our lives, if they are useless to us, but to you, it's a shame. While a good failure can show you...
Starting point is 01:44:38 And sometimes we can fail when it doesn't depend on you. Let's say it depends on the reception of others, it's not necessarily a flat failure. Because if we don't understand, it also shows that there is a time for everything. We were talking about the trilogy, which came out in a good time, but I can do something and it falls flat, and it's not necessarily because it's badly done, badly written. It's not the edge of my hand.
Starting point is 01:45:04 It's not that. It doesn't work. It's not there. And you know, failure, I always find when you have to bend a knee because something happened and you're on the ground, when you get up, you often see things you've never seen before. Absolutely. You discover things. When you get up, and if you get up, that's it. It's because when you have your knee on the ground, you can say,
Starting point is 01:45:23 all of a sudden my knee is heavy and, and it will stay on the ground, and I will try to move forward. Well, you will think about it. But the fact of getting up changes everything, because it gives you, first of all, confidence. So I'm standing up again. You know you're fragile, you know that... next to my word, very close,
Starting point is 01:45:43 so you try to keep your straight line. But you learn first that you're fragile, you know that you're very close to your word, so you try to keep your line straight. But you learn first that you're able to stand up, so you can fall back. And you won't die. You don't die from falling. No. No. It can be tough. Yes, sometimes it's more difficult. It is. But at the same time, I think that, in any case, I just have the word in English, but it's more difficult. But at the same time, I think that...
Starting point is 01:46:05 I just have the English word, but it's like a reset. Yes, it turns you back to nine. It turns you back to zero. Yes, there are things that you say, OK, I won't do it like that anymore. It looks like you're cleaning up your beliefs too. And that's where you also see true friendships. In your fears. Yes, exactly. It's cleaning up your fears, that's for sure. And also, that's where you see the people who love you.
Starting point is 01:46:29 The people who love you. The people who love you are there. They will respond presently and then you have to accept that help. I find that it's when it's hard to be that I'm also very autonomous, independent, but sometimes you have to accept the hand outstretched. And sometimes that's hard, but when you do it but when you do it, you're really stronger together. Yes, of course. Especially if you have trust. But you still have to build trust.
Starting point is 01:46:54 Yes, that's the basis. And I think that as we age, we realize this cheating of the environment. It's not necessarily young. Sometimes we take things for granted. When we're young, we want people who show us their moral and find us in the end. But people who don't necessarily find us in the end, we also have to find them. Because their criticism can help us. Yes, they have to believe in us. Sometimes you can go further, I've seen it.
Starting point is 01:47:27 I remember one year I had a producer who told me, you have to learn to explode. I said, you have to explode. I didn't understand. You didn't understand what he meant. No, and one day I understood what he meant. It was long, because when you leave a political path, you have a lot of retention in life.
Starting point is 01:47:46 When you arrive at the public square because you don't want to hurt your man. No, but he's part of a group. Yes, you don't want to hurt a militant, you don't want to hurt a candidate, you don't want to hurt, you don't want to hurt, at the same time, sometimes you take the floor. So you know, as soon as we answer a question, if we're authentic, well, we can... So you have to learn to make detours while remaining authentic. So one day you say, well, I'm going to shut up. It'll be easier that way. I don't want to hurt you. And when I was on TV, well, you know, it was...
Starting point is 01:48:14 When I see you in a meeting, you say what you think, and you have a lot of conviction. But it was long before I had that on TV. Because for me, there was the look of the other. there was still the fear, you know, to understand, to renew with the freedom of speech. It took a few years. It's not something that is done day to day. And without notifying that TV is still something that has its restrictions. It has rules. And we feel it all the time, the way we look at each other on TV.
Starting point is 01:48:48 All the time. All the time. So, you know, to regain freedom. And when I regained it, and as I said, it wasn't something that was done quickly. You can't speed it up. You can't play it either. And when I tasted it, I said to myself, OK, now I understand that when I speak, it only applies to me. That means that even if I get hit on the fingers, because if I assume what I say and that it has repercussions only on me, I have no problem with that. On the other hand, if I said something and it had fallen on someone else, I mean, it had no meaning.
Starting point is 01:49:25 No, we can't say that. Because you just have to assume that you are. And from that moment on, it seems that everything has changed. You exploded. Well, that truth was everywhere. Yes, but you know, the term exploded was... No, it's not funny. What does it mean? Did you want me to have a crisis? Well, that's what I'm getting at and I'm bothering everyone. No, it was just the outcome of that carcass. But the outcome of the constraint of censorship. Yes, exactly. It's heavy and it's more and more present.
Starting point is 01:49:49 But everywhere. This constraint. But now it's even imposed. I know. Now there are tons of people who think it's normal to censor. There are tons of people who think it's necessary to do it. For me, it's completely... Well, censorship, personal censorship,
Starting point is 01:50:08 you know, in art, to censor yourself is to no longer be an artist. It's over. It's obeying fear. The dictator is called fear. Fear of being cold, fear of shock, fear of not being loved,
Starting point is 01:50:24 fear... I can loved, fear of... I can go, we have more than we have a map. No, no, it's terrible. But now it's in the air of time. Oh, what you say is a microaggression. Oh! A microaggression allows you to stop the other, the earth, to close it.
Starting point is 01:50:44 And not say anything anymore. No. You have to be hungry. But it doesn't matter what it is. I have to be hungry. For me, being hungry, if it's fated, if it's done, if it's over. If it's under the constraint. If it's mandatory.
Starting point is 01:51:01 Yes. It's not hungry. It's not hungry. It's obedient. Exactly. We're elsewhere. Yes. At the same level as Eros and Companie? Oh yes, no. You give me five, Marie.
Starting point is 01:51:10 Five? But do you have five? Yes. You have six. You have one on the table. I keep one. Yes, and you only answer one. It's just that I like to leave more choices at that level.
Starting point is 01:51:20 Have you ever had a crush on love? You answered this question earlier. Yes. Do you prefer to in love? You answered this question. Yes. Do you prefer seducing or seducing yourself? What is the importance of the preliminary court? What would you have liked to know about sexuality at the age of 20? Is sexuality a taboo subject in your family? There I am...
Starting point is 01:51:41 You chose one. We answer one question at that level. What is it? S it hard to seduce? It's very funny because seduction works in two ways. So it's like an impossible question. Do we prefer to be seduced or seduce? But there are some who have difficulty going forward to seduce. Ah, okay. They will, you know, there are people who will wait for the other to come. Yes, but we can wait while trying to seduce. They will, you know, there are people who will wait for the other to arrive.
Starting point is 01:52:05 Yes, but we can wait while trying to seduce. I apologize, but there are very bright expectations. So tell me. No, no, but for me, a seduction process, it can't be done, that is to say, I go to war, then I'm armed, up to the teeth. No. For me, seduction is something... first of all, everyone is seduced. Look at people, even with animals, they try to seduce them, then attract them and all that. Seduction is part of human communication.
Starting point is 01:52:39 So I find that very often we can start seducing ourselves without even being in action, that is, without triggering the whole armada. But we can be seducing ourselves, and then suddenly we can think that it is the other who is seducing us, because the answer is there. Seduction is a current. It is a current, it is electricity, it is waves. It passes or it doesn't. There are people who can do seduction, like the cliché, like the announcement of gastronomic pleasure. For me, that's just funny, you know, it has nothing to do with what seduction is.
Starting point is 01:53:18 Seduction is a silent mode of communication. It's not in words, it's not in, ah, you're well, who's your hair, or, oh my God, what have you changed? That's a little baby-lala for me. No, seduction is a relationship with the other that transcends what is said, which literally transcends the word, even intelligence, because it enters the field of sensuality and mute, but screaming things. I really like seduction. I think it's something powerful, and I think it's one of the softnesses of human relationships. We can seduce someone without it being sexual. Sexuality is one thing, in the same way that we can be sexually attracted by someone who does not seduce us.
Starting point is 01:54:14 That also works. I was playing the question. The question came up. You saw the point of your gaze. Yes. Because it seems that you are talking more about an energy that you feel, the sexual energy at that moment. We're talking about sexuality or seduction? We want to talk about all of that, because there's still a kinship between the two. When we say seduction, we immediately see someone, just in the preliminaries, just before kissing someone, he seduced me, so I was in bed with him.
Starting point is 01:54:45 For me, seduction is much more broad. And for me, seduction is really the pleasure of being with. Being with someone else, being with... It's in the... I would say almost the little shivering of the meeting. Everything that works, everything that works, everything that can work between two people, everything that can make you laugh,
Starting point is 01:55:11 or suddenly start talking with wet eyes, because we're talking about something real, all of that fits, for me, in what seduction allows. Seduction is like the door to go towards trust, and not towards abuse. And for me, sexuality is like elsewhere. It works with seduction. There are people who seduce us and who tick us.
Starting point is 01:55:32 That's something else. But as I was saying, it can happen that we want someone, but who is not very seductive in what he says or in his approach. For me, it happened to me. It's what I call the Toaster Syndrome. That is, provided that I don't have to have lunch with him. Ha ha ha! I mean, of course, he attracts us, but he doesn't seduce us. There you go.
Starting point is 01:55:57 If we don't even eat a toast with him, it's said. And at that point, you take the lead. When you, you know, every times you felt that, you... I don't even have the impression, I don't even know who takes the lead. Sometimes it's very hidden, the seduction of someone. There are very mute people who seduce us a lot. I, the shy ones, kill myself, stimulate me, they make me very, very interested.
Starting point is 01:56:23 You know, someone is shy, I'll move forward. I want to know what's in there, why you don't talk. If I'm in a place where everyone talks, but no one talks, my gaze will be attracted immediately. I'll look at people and say, what is it? What are we hiding here? Who are you? So you've always been free, also in connection with seduction and with an emancipated sexuality?
Starting point is 01:56:50 We can say yes, for sexuality it's very true. Have I always been free in seduction? I was shy, I'm someone who is shy, strangely. It can happen to me to be very red, but I go forward like that because I really want to go see and know. It's an incorrigible situation. Did your awakening happen quickly in sexuality? Listen, I didn't even know what it was. I was already a victim of my sexuality. I was like a bomb. I was a child. Sexual education was not really one of the important things to teach children. There was a little book, a beautiful little book on bees,
Starting point is 01:57:34 that my mother gave to my sisters one after the other as we reached an age. And when she gave me the little book, I found it flat, so I didn't read it. And she said, you should give me the little book, I found it flat, so I didn't read it. She said, you should give me the little book. I said yes, yes. I went to see my sister, I said show me the good book. Because I said, I have to read the good book. And I didn't understand anything.
Starting point is 01:57:57 It was a complete story. It was like the flowers, the pistil. I didn't understand anything. I said, let's see. On the other hand, I was inhabited by desire. I was inhabited by sexuality. I was listening, I was watching people kissing on TV. I don't know, but I had these toes that were shaking.
Starting point is 01:58:18 I was thinking, oh, I want this, I want that, I want that. I can only have one kiss if it works, and if it's going to be the seventh heaven or not. It's crazy. I wrote love novels and I didn't know how to make love. I was 11, 12 years old. I didn't know everything. Because I didn't have an explanation apart from the damned bees.
Starting point is 01:58:42 When it happened the first time, did you feel that it was up to your expectations? Not at all. It was flat to die. But I, what I know, my expectations were... it was flat because the guy wasn't performing or I don't know why, also because he didn't know...
Starting point is 01:59:00 because there was nothing between him and me. But... it was powerful. I realized how much we can be inhabited by sexuality, by our hormones. Listen, I was... I didn't understand. I remember that before my school year, there was a guy who loved me. But he loved me meanly. And I said, well, no.
Starting point is 01:59:25 Come on, let's get married. He said, no, no, you're going to have a bad reputation. I said, it's okay. He never wanted to. But you see, he didn't have a good life either, poor thing. No, he didn't. Do you feel like you've men back with that energy? Certainly, without a doubt. But they didn't tell me.
Starting point is 01:59:50 But I presume they did. Yes, yes. No, no. But I remember a guy who... Oh yes, yes, that was funny. He was seduced and then he had a little game. A little game that came to for me at the bed. And then all of a sudden, when I was more specific, since I had to, I said, no, no, I'm going to be your friend. I don't need you. I already have a lot of people. But you know what I mean by you, it's also a great freedom.
Starting point is 02:00:20 Because for many, there is still a wave of piety in relation to that, to announce that you have this desire, to be able to make love, to name it, to direct it in a certain way. It's not given to everyone to have this confidence. I don't know if it's confidence or... Or this desire, this need. But it came with confidence because you were able to say it. It inhabited you so much that you had to name it at certain times.
Starting point is 02:00:49 I'm not even sure I was going to name it, but I was doing it. I took it. I took it. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. It doesn't matter. Are you still inhabited by this energy today? Sexual energy? Yes. I think it's part of the energy I have. I think so, even if I'm not as hungry as I was 20 years ago, or even 17 years ago. But I'm able to do the part of things.
Starting point is 02:01:20 But it's sure that all the energy I have, there's that too in it. It's sure. It's sure that all the energy I have, there's that one too. It's sure. It's sure. Yes, yes, yes. We talk less about that energy, but it's bearable. There's desire too, you know, to be in desire, to want anything. For me, desire doesn't come from sexual desire, but for me, the appetite to learn, the appetite to be with the other, the appetite to go towards life,
Starting point is 02:01:46 it's something that has to live on for a long time. Do you feel that when you talk about your sexual life or your relationship to sexuality, it has brusqued other people? Who? You mean talking in a podcast? No, not in a podcast, but with other women. I don't want that. Do you think women are more pudic when they come to this area of life? I don't know.
Starting point is 02:02:13 Did you release your voice? I don't think so. I don't think I released my voice. But I don't think it's something... You know, I don't feel... I'm not curious necessarily to know how others live their sexuality. In fact, for me, I do my business and if others want to talk about it, they can. But for me, it's not something... I wouldn't lie on the couch about sexuality.
Starting point is 02:02:37 Because the way you talk about it is so limpid, holy, without complex. I like that because often we still come to a little discomfort facing the direction we want it to take. For me, it's funny because my friend who died is not someone who had a great experience, a lot of men or things like that. And I always made her laugh. Because I find it very joyful, in fact. Kissing is joyful. And I find it fun, you know. But to enjoy is not flat. So, I've always talked about it,
Starting point is 02:03:22 in the end, quite funny. She always tells me, you make me laugh because're doing all my education. Well, because it's simple. Yes, but for me, there's pleasure in it. It's not suffering, it's not, oh my God, you know, being told no, it's just no, let's say it happens. I say that and I'm worried about remembering, Oh, there are some, there are two, but hey. There are a lot of people who like approaches, but not acting.
Starting point is 02:03:50 And that's what I call it, it's positive reinforcement that I'm looking for. You know? To have wanted, I could have. That, I've come across a lot of the to have wanted, I could have. You know what I mean? Absolutely. Because that... And you, you, you, you, it's... No, no, look. You want it, you can. Because that... And you, you...
Starting point is 02:04:05 No, no, look... You want it and you can. Well yes, and then you have to. And then you have to. And then you have to. We have to add and then you have to. No, no, we're not going there, there. You know, we're not doing...
Starting point is 02:04:13 It's not... Oh, the sheets are not soft enough. Hey, it's going to work. No, no, no. No, and then it's not... It's not mysterious. And then the pleasure, I think we're talking about a lot of things, but very little pleasure. There's something very holy in pleasure. It's good, you know?
Starting point is 02:04:29 Well, liberating. Yes. Yes. Yes, yes. And then it's like a little explosion of the body. That's nice. And after that, you're tired. The last question. Wait, that's not good. The question, Optoraiso. When you look at your life, what are you most proud of?
Starting point is 02:04:50 What came to me, I'll tell you, is to be alive. To be alive. Not half, not... That everything that could happen, good, bad, painful, exciting, all that keeps me alive, keeps me alive, and always makes me want to continue, to persist, to move forward.
Starting point is 02:05:14 It's now, it's now with everything that has happened before. There are things that I would never do again. There are people who often ask me, when you read one of your novels, do you want to correct it? And each time I do, never, never. Even if I see things that I would never say the same way now, I was 35 years old, and I said it with the 35-year-old girl I was.
Starting point is 02:05:38 And it's perfect. You bring yourself into your historical context, your life context. For me, everything has this importance. And we must not erase and try to perfect. We are not God. God, thank you. Because we have nothing to do with being God and wanting to be perfect. To want to be better, to be better, yes, but perfect.
Starting point is 02:06:00 Anyway, everyone is perfect. You know, they are never loved. And you know, when you analyze perfect people, you realize that no one is perfect. Of course not. Let's see. I think that there is no one who says, I am perfect. Sometimes there are people who can be perfect in the eyes of someone else. Because there is like...
Starting point is 02:06:18 Yes, there may be an adequacy. Exactly. You could say, perfect for me, or perfect for me. But it's where she looks perfect, but that person doesn't feel... No, no, no. In fact, there's no one. Exactly. So it's like intangible, perfection, but it's a quest for several, anyway. It's a quest, but I'm not sure it's the right one. Every time...
Starting point is 02:06:37 What was your quest in your life? To live, to be. To be there, to live. But live fully. Full, all the time. All the time. And to be responsible for the people we love. To be there for them. To be there.
Starting point is 02:06:52 Not just for ourselves, but for those we love. Keep that. For me, it's really important. When I love someone, he's not clear about his own feelings. He's not with me for sure. I wish you could find love. I don't miss it. I know you don't miss it, but I mean, a companion...
Starting point is 02:07:16 If he does, he does. I love your philosophy. You let things go. Do you? Absolutely. philosophy, tu laisses aller les choses. Là-dessus? Oui. Absolument. C'est-à-dire que tu prends, si il y a quelque chose, tu n'as pas de barrière. Non.
Starting point is 02:07:30 Tu es vraiment, tu es une femme libre. C'est bon. J'espère le garder. J'espère ne pas m'empêtrer dans des, non, il y a assez de choses dans la vie qui nous empêchent d'avancer vite. Aussi bien essayer de cultiver la liberté. Pour moi, c'est important. in life that prevents us from moving forward quickly, or at least try to cultivate freedom. For me, that's important. In closing, Tanto, you alluded to your last book
Starting point is 02:07:51 that you wrote, 10 days. I'd just like to talk about it a little bit, because it's a universal subject that affects us all, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly. You talked about 10 days, these 10 days that remain to live before receiving medical help to die. Why did you decide to talk about that?
Starting point is 02:08:12 Because I found that most people, when we were talking about medical help to die, were projecting themselves into a state of someone who is sick at the end of their life. However, we don't know anything about it. de quelqu'un qui est malade en fin de vie. Or, on n'en sait rien. On ne sait pas comment on va être. Je ne le sais pas. Et je me disais, mais la personne qui a signé ou qui a fait une entente pour avoir ça, comment a-t-il vie? Non pas moi, comment je vais être, tout ça, non. Comment une personne, puis je me disais, t'es chez vous, t'es dans ta maison, tu dis adieu à tes murs à chaque jour, tu're in your house, you say goodbye to your walls every day,
Starting point is 02:08:46 you say goodbye to those who love you every day, you know there's an hour and a date. So you're in a fashion of sand that's flowing. And I said to myself, how do we go through the days, and when there are two days left, is it worse? What did we do when there is one day left? And it's the last day of my life and I know it. So that tortured me for years. And at one point I said to myself, you do it or you stop there.
Starting point is 02:09:21 But I was very afraid, because I knew it wouldn't be a narrative. It's funny because sometimes the form comes to me very quickly. I knew it wouldn't be a narrative. I knew it was the game that I had to write it. So at that moment, I was that person. And that I was calculating 10 days, and that it was over. To be her, to be her. And it didn't want me to. I didn't want to. And she said to me, who's going to want to read that anyway? No one. No one is going to want to read that.
Starting point is 02:09:52 That's all nonsense. I never write thinking that someone is going to want to read it. But you know, when you say that, when you work to not do it, then at one point I said, when I finished, it's funny because I was writing and I had some time left. You know, I had finished and I had some time left for the house, and I said, you do it. And I said, you do it.
Starting point is 02:10:16 You do it. Start. And if you can, sit down. And it's writing. Well, I was that woman. It's a woman who has seen a husband, who had two children, two daughters, very different, but still not as much as that. Well, it's someone who had relationships, only a life. Not extraordinary, but not flat. And as I wrote, as soon as I was her, as soon as I started, ten days, that's how it starts,
Starting point is 02:10:47 and I started, and then I started writing, I was her all the time, and every time I finished, I went out to walk on the beach, I was filled with such a feeling of life, I was filled with sky, sea, horizon, beach, I was breathing and I was thinking, Oh my God, what happiness! I was not expecting anything, I was in total fullness, in the ecstasy of being alive. And every time, every three and a half hours in the morning, I would go back to sleep, and then I would refuse to correct it, to go back, because it can't go back. It can only move forward towards its death. And I did it until the end. I didn't know how it would end, at all. At all. But it's a writing that has done me so much good that I said to myself, here, it could do good, so that's it.
Starting point is 02:11:50 It's funny sometimes. I was very, very afraid of this book. It's one of the most, ah, I don't know, the most merciful that comes to me. It's a book that says, take yourself as you are, go with what you have, don't complain, look at what you have and live with it until the last drop, as she says, like the kind of promotion for a coffee, good, until the last drop. I don't know, it's very strange,
Starting point is 02:12:31 I carried it for a long time in fear, and when I started writing, fear disappeared. And I thought to myself, maybe I'll die like that, without fear. In full consciousness. Yes, and looking at those I love and saying to them, don't forget to live. Live. That's what I remember from all this interview.
Starting point is 02:12:53 To live. When life is there, when mental health is there, when physical health is there, live. And even when you decline, even when you have a stomach ache, it's okay, let's go, we walk the same way. Less fast, but we walk. That's it, we do things differently. That's all. That's all. Everything.
Starting point is 02:13:10 But the heart can love very strongly at any age. It doesn't feeble. That's good value, but it doesn't take a laugh. Ha ha! Thank you very much. Thank you. Marie-Laureerte, for this magnificent meeting. Thank you, Marie-Claude. It's good to hear your freedom.
Starting point is 02:13:30 For that beautiful... Well, I'm happy. Yes, but it's inspiring, autonomy, freedom, independence. To make a life that is at the height of all your expectations. Yes, or even when you don't have it, go ahead. Yes, yes, yes. But you're pulling us up, I love that. Oh yes, that's good, we'll stick with that.
Starting point is 02:13:50 We're pulling up. We're pulling up and I found the name of the galettes, the crepes, they're ploys. Oh yes, that's true. They're little crepes that they make, because I just remembered, I'll wait until the end, they're ploys just because I know people will write to us. But in the end, because I know people will be screaming at me. But we're finally pulling together.
Starting point is 02:14:08 Thank you for visiting and answering all these questions. It's a pleasure. We didn't get the joker out. We didn't get the joker out. Thank you all for being there. See you in the next podcast. Bye-bye. This episode was presented by Karim Jonquat, the Quebec Health Care Ambassador and the
Starting point is 02:14:30 Marie-Claude virtual community. The Table Game opens your game and is available everywhere in stores and on Randolph.ca.

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