Ouvre ton jeu avec Marie-Claude Barrette - #90 Vanessa Pilon | Ouvre ton jeu avec Marie-Claude Barrette

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

Rencontre avec une femme curieuse d’en apprendre toujours plus sur la vie. Elle aborde la famille avec lucidité et l’amour avec vérité. Elle nous partage sa façon de voir la vie. ━━━━━━━━━━━ 00:00:00 - Introduction 00:26:34 - Cartes vertes 00:50:46 - Cartes jaunes 01:26:28 - Cartes rouges 01:36:09 - Cartes Eros 01:54:40 - Carte Opto-Réseau ━━━━━━━━━━━ L'épisode est également disponible sur Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts et les plateformes d'écoute en ligne. Vous aimez Ouvre ton jeu? C'est à votre tour d'ouvrir votre jeu avec la version jeu de société. Disponible dès maintenant partout au Québec et au https://www.randolph.ca/produit/ouvre-ton-jeu-fr/?srsltid=AfmBOoo3YkPk-AkJ9iG2D822-C9cYxyRoVXZ8ddfCQG0rwu2_GneuqTT Visitez mon site web : https://www.marie-claude.com et découvrez l'univers enrichissant du MarieClub, pour en apprendre sur l'humain dans tous ses états et visionner les épisodes d'Ouvre ton jeu, une semaine d’avance. ━━━━━━━━━━━ Ouvre ton jeu est présenté par Karine Joncas, la référence en matière de soins pour la peau, disponible dans près de 1000 pharmacies au Québec. Visitez le https://www.karinejoncas.ca et obtenez 15% de rabais avec le code ouvretonjeu15. Grâce à Éros et compagnie et notre niveau rose, obtenez 15% avec le code rose15 au https://www.erosetcompagnie.com Merci également à Opto-Réseau, nouveau partenaire d'Ouvre ton jeu. Visitez le https://www.opto-reseau.com pour prendre rendez-vous dans l'une de leurs 85 cliniques.

Hello everyone, welcome to the podcast Open Your Game. Obviously, we are here week after week and I always want to say thank you, thank you for following us and for being so generous in the comments on the different broadcast locations of the podcast. Because at the beginning, people were telling me, you'll see on podcast, sometimes the comments are negative, or well, in our case, there are almost no negative comments. It's the opposite. It's so interesting to read you, and I also like to share these comments with the guests

because sometimes they wonder, yes, I just shared my story, but what do people think? And to see that sometimes our own story resonates, echoes among some of you, and all dependent on the person. Sometimes it's an guest, not the other, but you learn from each of the guests, but to know for them that it makes an echo, it makes a difference. And I like to read too when you say, ah, this person, I wasn't sure,

I just wanted to listen to the beginning, and finally I discovered someone I like a lot. So it proves that when you take the time to listen, to hear what the other person has to say, you change your perception. And I always like to read you comments at the beginning of podcasts.

Nicole says, I just watched your meeting in person. Yes, because we were at the 1030 at Brossard with Chantal Lacroix. At 99.9%, I am happy to savor the content without giving my appreciation. But now, it's impossible. I am amazed at the power of the twinning of the two beautiful people you are. It's been 90 minutes of pure happiness that have brought me faith to build a better world. Wow! Yes, Chantal obviously contributed a lot to that. And I want to tell you because she talks about opening your game on stage.

Open your game on stage. If you go to our Facebook page, you will see the link because we will be in Brossard, in Gatineau, among other things in Gatineau, we will be with Lise Dion on stage. Very happy because it's been a long time since we've seen her on stage and she agreed to come and open your game. Then we will also have Mario Pelletier at Saint Eustache. We will have Mathieu Dufour in Quebec, so to see the dates, the rooms, the meeting on our Facebook page. I hope you'll come and see us.

It's a capture, it will also be broadcast, but the experience on stage, what is special, is that from the beginning, I pick names of people, obviously, who volunteered, who put their names in a box. I'm picking names of people, and these people come to answer one question of Open Your Game. And when we did it a few months ago, it led to revelations, very intimate moments,

and yet we are five minutes with these people. So you will live that if you come to the show rooms. And for the members of the Marie-Claude club, we spend an hour with you before each show. So we have a little meeting to allow you to meet the other members and we can chat together around a glass. I wanted to remind you because she liked the capture, but coming in the room, in any case, for me, it's a great experience.

Listen, making the scene, I'm not an actress, I'm not humorous, but there, it's like a big surprise in my life and I love going to your meeting. Geneviève says, Hello, Marc-Claude, I really liked the initiative with Maxime Roy, I lived a burnout at 31 years old Mother Claude, I really liked the initiative with Maxime Roy. I lived a burnout at 31 years old and like her, I got up one morning and I couldn't even walk. And for years, I wondered if it was common to go to the end of the line at a 6-year-old. In short, I love your podcast.

Listen to it every week from my residence in Switzerland. So hello, André. It's really a pleasure. This is Jeanne-Lièvre. Hello. Hello, Jeanne-Li my residence in Switzerland. So hello, André. It's really a pleasure. This is Geneviève. Hello Geneviève from Switzerland. André tells us, I come from France, and I didn't know Marc Labrèche especially, except for his exceptional imitations of Céline Dion. But thanks to this interview, I discovered him very funny and very touching.

Passing from laughing to tears in a few seconds only, it's very rare. Indeed, we talked a lot about my laugh in this podcast because Marc has this gift of telling a story in three dimensions, we have the impression that we are with him, it was quite extraordinary. And that's it, so we have more and more people who follow us in the Francophonie,

that's what's beautiful about a podcast, it's that there's no borders. So you are obviously welcome. I remind you that our partners are Karine Jonquard and that she offers 15% discount on all online purchases. You go with the promo code Ouvretonjeu15 and Rossacompagnie also offers 15% discount if you make online purchases.

And the promo code ROSE15 is in... And I also want to talk to you about Optoraiso, who are important partners. We also have the Optoraiso card, which is always the question, which ends the podcast well. Obviously, there is a team, I'm not the only one doing the podcast, and I'm the one who's seen, but there's a lot of people in the back. Caroline Dion, who is coordinating. David Bourgeois, who is doing the online. Jonathan Fréchette, who is doing digital creation.

And Maëlle Ledivin, who is doing the capture. So today, it's a very social dynamic that I find a very involved dynamic, also socially, which is very generous with her life on social networks. We've known her for a few years now. We've known her, among other things, at Salut Bonjour! I'm talking about Vanessa Pilon. So I can't wait to meet her. And you'll see, I'll talk to her during the podcast, because Vanessa will join the Marie-Claude. So you'll understand how she joins this team that is already made up of Maude Guérin, Sophie Préjean and Guylaine Tremblay. So without further ado, let's welcome Vanessa Pilon. When I made peace with that, to understand that it was right to look at the same situation and to have different experiences in the same challenge, I was like,

oh, okay, that's it, that's it, being able to support each other. It's that it also allowed him to take a place to support me in there. And it allowed me to dive a little more into my pain, into my grief, and to live it for real, to feel supported by him. If we had been both at the bottom at the same time, we couldn't have been able to support each other and we couldn't have crossed that together. So it was really another moment that solidified us. And that's what it's like when people get married,

they say, for the best and for the worst. But the worst, it's like we say to ourselves when we hear that, we're like, I hope there won't be any worse, but there are worse. And that's what's beautiful too, to know that there will be worse moments. There will be difficult things, but it's not necessarily the end. Open Your Game is presented by Karine Jonquas, the reference in skin care reference, available in nearly 1,000 pharmacies in Quebec,

and by the virtual community Marie-Clobe, available on Marie-Clobe.com. The Game of the Table opens your game and is available everywhere in stores and on Randolph.ca. Today, we're welcoming a girl we've known for a long time in the television world. I'm going to talk about this girl because I've often had trouble recognizing her. She's someone who has changed her look often. I was like, oh yeah, it's her! Well, yeah, it's her! In the same way, I find it wonderful to be so excited about it, to be able to do a lot of things. She made a decision last year, she did it for a for a year. I can't wait to talk to her about it.

I think she's someone who takes a position in the public space, who talks to us, who wants to go forward. She's a woman, a young woman, for whom I have a lot of admiration. Vanessa Pilon, welcome to Open Your Game. Hi, Marc-Laude! I'm excited. Thank you, thank you for welcoming me.

It's so nice to be here, and what I just said is true, Vanessa. Even once, I'll always remember, it wasn't that long ago, I was at Salut Bonjour in Quebec, and I got my make-up done next to you, in the small make-up room. And when you said, Hi Marc-Laure, I hadn't even recognized you on the chair. And I was so sick, I said shit, Vanessa, I didn't even say hello. Because you had fun changing your look a lot in your life.

Often, often. Sometimes I feel like I've lived 12 lives, you know, being a little cat, changing my look. But to renew myself like that, I don't know, for me, I think it's a physical manifestation of what my art has the taste for living in this incarnation. I feel alive, full of things. I'm like, I have a life right now. Can I not stay in the same track and try a lot of things? Trying new haircuts is really anodine. It's not that anodine. I think it's daring. What you're saying is that you showed

yourself to the outside how you feel inside. Yes, I really feel like I want to try new things. When I feel comfortable somewhere, I quickly, I want to move, I want to do new things. When I understand something, when I feel like I understand something, in my head, I stand back, it's perfect, we move on to the next experience. I try new things. Sometimes in my life, I feel like I haven't quite understood the pattern.

So I tell myself that my project is not finished, but I need to change. It seems like the hair change comes just to add a little bit of newness. Then I move on to something else. But I also find it fun because it allows me to free release labels that people want to put on me. Sometimes, I'll tell you, at one point I had very long hair, I matched a certain beauty standard. I know I was a little caught up in a kind of label. And at that moment, what I wanted to do was shave my hair.

I was like, I want to get out of this. Let's say if I shave my hair, how will people welcome me? How will people perceive me? And how am I going to be in the world if I don't have this of that. Let's say, if I shave my hair, how will people welcome me? How will people perceive me? And how will I be in the world if I don't have this thing that corresponds to a certain type of beauty? So I really found that fun. For me, it was really a game. I was like, I'm a new version of myself.

I get into a taxi, how does the driver welcome me? Are the interactions different? Is it going to make me ask different questions? I just feel like playing when I do that. What's your conclusion? Do people change when you change your look? I think I change deeply too. It's like, you know, for me, my body is a bit like a costume. I have a deep conviction that I am a weapon embodied in a body, and that I live in my little costume of the human being during my life. So I tell myself, let's say I change my costume,

do people see me differently? And I really think deeply about it, because I feel like I'm embodying another version of myself. When I had shaved hair, there was something where I was like, maybe people wonder how it's done, that I have shaved hair. Do they say, hey, punch that girl, or did she have cancer and is on remission? I tell myself stories too, I tell myself,

what do people tell about me. And what is the attitude I want to have in there? When I had very long hair, a little more bohemian, I wanted to walk on my feet. I was in the countryside. And these are all versions of me. They're not characters. I feel like each human being is so multiple and so complex.

And we try to simplify life by going into a box. But I like to play with all the little facets of who I am, and just reconcile them, and sometimes give more space to a certain version of me. At one point, I had very short black hair, I was in a completely different place. I was like, I'm a Berlin woman. I tell stories a little bit. I still remain Vanessa in it, but it's just like I was just allowing myself to amplify the little parts of who I am

that may not have the place all the time in my life. It's Vanessa the explorer. Really, really. I love trips. So when I don't have the space to travel or I don't have the time, I explore through these characters. Yes, because often when we talk to actors and actresses, it's through roles that will have physical metamorphoses to really endorse that role. Whereas you, it's facades of you that you endorse, but at 100%. Yes, I want to go deep into all of this. I don't want to limit myself.

I think life pushes us to limit ourselves, to go into something that is just... It seems like we're building a certain kind of security in life. And it's trying to stay in those tracks. It's like we don't have to ask ourselves questions, we're comfortable. And I think it's deeply human and it's okay to seek comfort and security, but I find life exciting. I find that I want to go taste these unknown things, so yes, there is a form of exploration in there, that's for sure. Are there any of these facets of you that you have more of a background in, that you had less desire to leave? That's a good question. Well, it's sure that everything that corresponds to the beauty standards,

it's something still comfortable. You know, to feel that, precisely, to have beautiful long hair, to have, you know, in my first years at Salut Bonjour, I had a very straight fringe that was very... We noticed you. We noticed. It was coming out of the water, and there were a lot of girls who were making that fringe at that time. And I felt that there was something in me that was solidified through that identity. And I was afraid to leave it. I said to myself, if people don't recognize me anymore, you know, that famous question

like you, who is like, who is this girl on the chair? Because you still had the image of me from probably a few months ago. Exactly. And I was afraid to be recognized or completely lose what I had as Aki at that time, because for me it was a big boom in my career when I went into TVE, when I went into the television scene. And at that time, I had difficulty changing it, but I just felt that it was starting to suffocate me. It was so... It made my character, well not my character, but my public version of myself, that I had difficulty releasing that version.

It's like a costume, basically. It's really like that. It's like you had to be the same all the time. Yes, that's it, to match something I had created. And then I felt a little prisoner of that kind of character. So this one, it's a little tougher, but it but it seems that when I managed to let it go, this version, then... In fact, I think I was deeply afraid

not to be loved if I was something else than the character I had created to be on TV in a certain way. I was deeply afraid that if I became a version closer to who I really am, that I would lose my place. I was really afraid of losing my place. I had the impression that it was completely an anomaly to be on TV. For me, I was like, there is someone at some point who will unmask me. I really had that feeling of an impostor.

So I was thinking, if I change my haircut, they will realize that I have no connection here. I was really afraid of not having my place. And that's what I built over the years, and over the years, the hair and look changes, it's this deep trust that it's just art, and that it's not important. I think we still have a lot of importance on that, and people have talked a lot about it in my career,

about these famous look changes. But for me, it's not important, because the center is always as solid, it's always the same. And you know, the rest is game. And I think that's what I'm getting more and more connected to my deep truth. So the rest, it's just like you said, a costume. I like hearing you talk about the game. You know, it's a word that we don't hear so often with adults. It's true.

The game. You know, yes, playing is one thing. we have a game here, but playing with our exterior, among other things, because you know, sometimes I tell myself, try to live your whole life with the same body. It's true. You know, when you have an injury, it will stay there, a physical injury, it will stay there all your life, you know. If you have brown eyes, you will have brown eyes all your life. But it's true, you know, when I was younger, I played a lot with my hair, the color of my hair. And it's true that as I get older, I'm really wise. I like to hear that. Well, it's because I think that as you get older, you also find...

The meaning. The meaning. And maybe it doesn't matter as much. And you're right, now it seems that I may have a little less of that momentum of constantly changing my look. It seems that I'm a little wise too. I know what's good for me. I know what my hair cuté myself. I know what suits me. I know what my hair cut was like. I saw your pictures and thought, I think it's beautiful.

Really, I said to myself one morning, that's what I'm going to wear. It's going to be my hair cut. There are pictures that I look at and I go, oh my, we were... And then you decided, we will surely talk again in the game, but still, last year, 2024, you made the choice to live without makeup. And what did you want to go for through this decision?

Well, the combination of words that came back to me, because it came to me a little spontaneously, on January 1st, my son went doing a great meditation, and I started writing my vision of 2024. And then, this thing of not putting on makeup came up. And then, I was like, well, we're going to put it aside, it's not a big deal, we're going to do it. And then, I was like, well, we're going to do it. And then, I was like, well, we're going to do it. And then, I was like, well, we're going to do it. And then, I was like, well, we're going to do it.

And then, I was like, well, we're going to do it. And then, I thing of not putting on makeup came up. And then, it looked like I was like, well, we're going to put it aside, it's not so relevant. And then, it looked like my intuition was saying to me, no, it's really, really something important. And then, after that, I asked myself the question, why, you know, why is it important for me to try to spend a year without makeup? And then, I realized that in the weeks that had passed, my daughter had asked me the stupid question of why I was putting on makeup, since we were going to a brunch or another brunch during the holidays and I wasn't putting on makeup in the last few days.

I was really in pyjamas mode at home, we were going to slide. And then to get out, I put on makeup and my daughter asked me why, and I didn't have a good answer to give her. I had vague answers that we say automatically, because everyone is wearing makeup, because it's a special occasion, because mom likes it, you know, a little vague answers. But I really asked myself the question for myself, and I didn't have the real answer.

Then I thought, oh, that's interesting, I think I need to explore this question. Why am I wearing makeup? What drives me to put on makeup? And the answer to which I came in, why do I want to not put on makeup, was to enter the radical acceptance of who I am. To accept completely everything that I am in my face. Because for me, that's it too. Not trying to magnify something, not trying to hide something, not trying to look like I'm just there, you know, to get up in the morning

and be that version of me, no matter how it fluctuates in me, depending on my hormones, how it fluctuates because I didn't sleep well, because I'm stressed, because sometimes... So there's no camouflage? There's no camouflage. And if I introduce myself as I am, how am I going to feel? It's a bit like extending my question from all my previous haircuts, but also trying to present myself as I am, how will I feel? It's a bit of an extension of my question about all my haircuts previously, but to try that too, to try to present myself in a space in front of people with no artifice. And I tried that for a year, days a little more uncomfortable than others,

others really where I felt powerful in that choice. And at the end of my year without makeup, I came to the conclusion that the radical acceptance of myself was to accept that sometimes I wanted to put on makeup, that I didn't feel so confident, and that makeup helped me, or that I wanted to put on that gesture because that's how I feel today. So, we're at the beginning of the year 2025, so theoretically, I have the right.

My challenge is over. And you see, this morning I asked myself the question, do I put on makeup or don't I put on makeup? And it's one of my first shoots of the year. And then I was dressed up last night and I said to myself, I'll go and get up tomorrow morning. So I got up this morning and it told me I wanted to put on makeup. I wanted to get out of my little dress and play with my little colors.

And I put on makeup, and honestly, I found it really long. The first time I saw it, I was like, hey, it's endless! Oh my God, the amount of stuff I could have done in that half an hour! So I realized all the time that I had taken for myself in the last year. I was like, wow, the little daily half-hours that I put on makeup. These are half-hours that I often put on to meditate, to do a little bit of pilates on my mattress. All the time that I got to spend time with my daughter, this morning I was in the mood, I was putting on makeup while my daughter was having lunch with my chum downstairs,

and he was preparing her for school, and I was in the mood to put on makeup. And I noticed this kind of weird dissonance that I had more of a taste for being with my daughter. You know, I had more of a taste for going to eat my cereals next to the house and take it as a relief than to be preparing myself. So, you know, I did it, I put on makeup, but I thought, oh, I think I put on makeup. But you have some evidence, anyway. I have some evidence, I really have a lot of evidence. It's very, very deep. You know, it's another thing that can also have theine and superficial, the idea of not putting on makeup,

but everything that it made me go through as an inner journey in my insecurities, how I feel naked when I don't have makeup, how I look at myself through the eyes of others too. In the work we do, we are often called to look at what others see in us. So all that was really a year of transformation. It was challenging. Sometimes it brought me to really uncomfortable areas. Moments where I felt like there were a lot of parties in me that didn't agree. Parties that had the taste, that had the taste for being,

and other parties who thought it wasn't right to be, to feel that I needed to get out of my way to go to certain spaces, that I had to go for it, just going for it wasn't enough. And that's what I think, in any case, with a lot of women I've spoken to, that's what comes out often, is that there are a lot of women who feel that they're not enough, when they arrive in a natural space, that they need to do something more. Get their hair done, get a haircut,

put on a little accessory. We always have this kind of... A representative. Yes, yes. I don't know if it's a message. I feel like it's a message that I've received a lot as a young woman, as a young girl. It's that there's always something to do more.

While I see that my chum can come in somewhere with the same shirt that he put on in six shoots. Nobody will talk to him about it. Just with a hair style, we think it's beautiful, a small hairpin. You know? It can happen in a confident space. And I feel that I don't have that same privilege as a woman. And that, for me, was also one of my great observations.

This inequality inherent between the experience of being a man and the experience of being a woman in the world. And that's not true for everyone. There are a lot of women who wrote to me and said... And it's worse in aging, Vanessa. Well, that's what I'm aware of. There are really standards. I think that without talking to women who...

You know, aging, I'm talking about 50 years old, not in the end of life. There's like... Maybe there's a revenge of these women, but it's like your colors become less tonic. Yes. It's like... Yes, you're there, but it's like what's in front of you. There's something that you have to do more in any case.

But if you go, we'll start to open your game and we'll talk about it through the questions because yes, women, it also interests me a lot. And are we more sensitive than men to what others think? Sometimes I also ask myself this question. Is there a youthfulness in men who may have perceptions but who don't see them? That is, who may have people who look at them strangely but who don't notice that? And I also have the impression that it it's something that we create among ourselves,

because the worst critics are women against women. Yes, I know. Really. It's really, yes, it's very common. So there are a lot of... So thank you for doing this in the name of women. You see, for me, makeup, my period where I put on makeup, for me it's like something zen.

Yes. It's like a stop where I put on my classical music, or... I like brushes, small pots, but you know, at home, I always put some cash cern and mascara. You know, that's my base. And now I put on a little foundation because I'm starting to have some old-fashioned spots that I could decide to show, but I have one here that I always try to hide. But you see, for me, when I do it, when I go out, there's like a moment for me. Yeah. But you see, for me, when I do it, when I go out, there's a moment for me. Yes.

Of tranquility. I know I'm going to find myself, but that doesn't mean I always find it beautiful what I do. But for me, it's like an artist, my artistic side suddenly manifests itself with small pinches. But you see, this morning, I reconnected with that, with that pleasure, because it's not white, it's not black. And in the last year, I was taking that moment, you know, rather meditating, doing a little bit of movement. But there's an artistic part, you're right, that's fun. That's fun, the little brushes, the little pearls that shine a little bit, the colors.

It's really fun. I love makeup. In fact, I like all the creams for the skin, the body. When I have time to do everything, you know, like, to spoil myself, if we really want to do my, you know, to make me look good, it would seem like it's taking care of me, you know. Really, well, reconnecting with our body.

And taking care of it, it's a beautiful gesture. Oh yes, I love that. So here's the game, green cards. These are more generic questions. The yellow cards are, become more generic. The yellow cards become more personalized. The red cards are very personal. The pink cards are sexuality, sensuality. Yes, the cardcakine. The cards are cross-company, that says it all. The optoraiso card is still a card full of empathy and you're a joker. So if you find that sometimes the subquestion goes too far,

you can put the joker and we'll move on to another question. I don't keep it too far. That's it, you don't keep it too far. We start with the green level. You can take them on the table. You're going to give me five. I'll read them to you. You're going to choose one.

And I'm going to choose one of these questions. I'm pretty... I really like that, my zero-card. I have the impression that we're having a little tarot session. It's a new kind of tarot. Yes, that's it. Should I turn them over? No, you will give them to me, I will turn them over. This one calls me. Thank you.

And there you go. So, you chose one of these. Which person made a difference in your life? What makes you vulnerable? What does family mean to you? To be good with yourself, I owe you three little points. What is your worst flaw? Hmm. You all have good questions, huh?

Hum... I want... The one that calls me, it's funny, I wouldn't have thought, but it's the... What does the family mean to you? Well, yes. It's funny, really, I don't know why it's the one that calls me. What does the family mean to me? What goes up, it's really... it shows is really like two different things. There's the family I created with my chum, with my daughter, with my little dog, where I live.

For me, it's like I'm coming to my house, I'm coming with my family, and I really feel like I'm in a ultimate security island, of acceptance, precisely what I was looking for last year, radical acceptance of who I am, where I can be myself 100%. For me, this place is a little out of the world. Sometimes I wonder why I need to be out of the world. I don't want to get out of the world. And I don't want to get out of society. But sometimes I feel that I need to take the small volume

and lower the noise around to better understand what's in me. And for me, family is the place where I can hear who I really am. What's happening for me? What do I really want? I find that life goes so fast. There are so many messages that come to us constantly. We have information. I also look at myself a lot through the eyes of others. So getting out of that,

it really allows me to connect with my true nature and to return to the world after. It's like my little recharge point. My little selenite tip when we're looking for stones, or my phone recharge, no matter how you see it. My little bit of selenite when we're looking for stones or when we're looking for a phone, no matter how you see it, but it's my little spot, really, to come back to my truth, to come out after. I really need my family for that. I realize that sometimes I project myself in the butterfly effect.

If I hadn't met Alex, if I hadn't had children, if I hadn't had a family, what kind of person would I be? I have the vertigo, and I'm like, no, that's impossible. I don't see my life without my current family. And the family for me is also more broad. It's my family of origin, so it's my parents, my sister, my brother, this family that is around me, which is really challenging. For me, I have a relationship with my family which is beautiful, but which is not simple,

which brings me to zones where I feel very activated. Sometimes, I feel a lot of anger, I feel a lot of strong emotions with my family. And I've been wondering for a long time, why do I feel so triggered by my family? And I realize that my family is the place where I get the most mirror, the reflection of who I am. You know, the parties with the...

It's more confronting in your family. It's more confronting, really, really, because I recognize myself. In my parents, I recognize myself. In my brother, in my sister. And the things I see in them, I realize with the years that these are the things with which I feel less good in myself. So it's beautiful occasions for me to work on myself. Before, it was an opportunity to confront myself more often than otherwise,

or just pretend that nothing is happening. But with the years, I really see it as a beautiful space for transformation. And I feel that with the work that I put very deep into myself, when I arrive in front of deep into myself when I arrive in front of my father, when I arrive in front of my mother, there is something that transforms quietly. And I feel that there is something, I went to see my grandmother last week, who is almost 96 years old, you know. And she told me her life, since she is visibly, she entered in CHSLD, and it was a difficult time to transfer. When we transfer our grandparents, our parents,

to residences like this, we know that it's probably the last place. So there's this posture that takes you back to almost 100 years for her. What was her path of life? And to have our children meet, it really allowed me to understand where I come from and what I hold on to, which doesn't necessarily belong to me, but which was linked to what my grandmother lived, what she made my mother live,

what my mother made me live, what we made her live. And now I'm a mother, and I see this kind of opportunity that I have not to transmit certain things that have been linked to me. And also to recognize all the beauty that has been linked to me. So I find it really beautiful. There are several Indigenous nations who talk about the Seven Fires, seven generations before, and seven generations that are coming,

and how we are at the center of these 14 generations. We receive generations before us, and we have the power in our lives to have an impact on the generations that will follow us afterwards. So, to remind me that it's important, you know, the life I'm living right now. But there is a pressure that comes with what you say. Yes, that's for sure. But at the same time, I see it more as an opportunity. Because you could have run away from that. Yes, yes. It might have been more comfortable at Because you could have run away from it. Yes, yes.

It might have been more comfortable at the moment, but it stays in it. What you run away from, you live. And we will pass it unconsciously to others. We don't realize it. If we have things that we don't address to ourselves, we don't realize it, but we transmit them, we respect them around us.

But what gave you that strength? Because clearly it doesn't necessarily come from your family. What gave you that strength to say, I don't want what I received. There are some who will say, I can't give what I didn't get. I often talk about it here because it's something I hear often in the lives of people I know. And at one point, we can say, well no, we can maybe receive what we have, we can maybe give what we would have liked to receive. Yes, yes. But I think we have to start by offering ourselves, you know, to understand that we can also be the source of what we would have liked to receive as a child. And I know that my daughter will probably in a few years say everything she would have liked to receive from me.

And it's okay. And I have the humility to recognize that too, that I'm not the perfect mother. But Rosemary Charest would ask you if you're still the best mother you can be at the moment. Well yes, that's it. That's the question, that's much more that. Because what is being a perfect mother? We are individuals who are different from each other. We have children who are different from one another. So it's at the moment of your life, and you know, it's always judged with the moment. Sometimes we have great sufferings, sometimes we have great times, so we're not the same mother.

You know, families who had 11 children before, when you hear them talk about their parents, let's say the oldest and the youngest, and it's sublime, but it's because they don't have the same version of their parents. let's say the oldest and youngest, and it's sublime, but it's because they haven't had the same version of their parents. Sometimes there are 15 years of difference. In 15 years, you won't be... That's exactly it. And that's the only thing I've had when I saw my grandmother last week with some of my aunts, you know, because my grandmother had 15 children. It was that kind of generation, and children. And finally, from the beginning, from the beginning of her maternity,

to the last child she had, she transformed. A lot of things happened. And each time, she was the best mother she could be in this context. And for many of her children, it wasn't enough. And that's what I realize too, that right now, I feel that I'm the best mother I can be. And I want to embody the best version of myself all the time. And I know that the best version will fluctuate, but I want to...

I don't know if... sometimes I think I ask myself too many questions and I take the children too seriously, but... I have a chant from What the fuck, which is a company from Quebec, and the one I chose is I think I ask myself too many questions. I think I think too much. Yes, that's it. I think I think too much. Yes, that's it. It's sure, it's sure. But at the same time, I tell myself, it's okay that there are people who think too much. Sometimes I look at people and I'm like, it looks so much fun not to ask a question.

Oh, it looks simple! It's my dream sometimes. Because asking questions means finding answers. Yes. And they are not always easy to find. And they are not always comfortable either. No, no, no. Once you find the answer, sometimes you're like, oh, I wish I didn't know. I would like to maybe continue to live in the story I was telling myself, or in this illusion, or just...

But you know, you did an episode, did I forget the name with your father? Yes, Sing Me the Apple. Sing Me the Apple, we know his house in Rouge-Mont, in fact, you were the house you lived in before, and he comes next door. And we still feel that there is an evolution between the two of you through this series, yes, the house, but everything that happens is an evolution between you two through this series,

yes, the house, but everything that happens between you two, we feel it, we are spectators of a change. It was really extremely transformative to do this project with my father. For the little story, that's it, we had a land, we transformed it into a two-generation and bought a mobile house that was next door, we renovated everything. And you know, my father is like for many girls of my generation, and it's a lot of messages that I received after the show was broadcast.

But my father was like a source of admiration. I admired my father. It was for me, it was the end of the world. My father was the most beautiful, the most fine, the most everything, but he wasn't very involved in my life. He was a dad who had received the message that he had to be a voice actor, so he was often gone. My mother stayed at home, so I had the relationship of proximity with my mother. So my father was a kind of satellite to our family, who was there when he was there.

We were very happy, we spent time with him, but he was not very involved. And I think that I suffered a lot from that, and he suffered a lot too. And that's what I discovered through this series, is that we both suffered from this narrative that was imposed on many families. It was a bit... That's also what allowed me to accomplish a path of empathy and compassion towards the men of that generation. Because I entered the adult age with a lot of frustration and disappointment. How come that the parents were so emotionally not involved? How come that my father wasn't there? How come that my father never said, I love you? How come that...

And to walk a few miles in these alleys, I also understood where he was coming from. And that really allowed me to let go of all my stories. Your expectations, your expectations were fulfilled. And to understand where he was coming from, and to welcome him that way, and to make room for him in my life. There was no room like that.

I felt that we could start walking another path and start telling a new story. It was so deep because from then on, my father gave me the opportunity to be something else. He also took that permission in a certain way. He's so proud to make you dinner at the end. Yes! But your brother and your sister brother and sister who are with you. At the beginning you were well impressed,

and the main dish was average. But I liked the vulnerability in which your father got involved too. And we saw the evolution. I think the scene, this scene where he receives you in this house that is finished, there is something very symbolic. Really, well my father never invited us to dinner, you know, he didn't cook for us, something of a... it was all my mother who did and he didn't know how to cook, you know, when he's alone, he eats at the IGA, that's what he's going to do and it's going like...

So full, I imagine of men who didn't learn how to cook. That's it, that's it, they didn't learn how, and. That's right. They didn't learn how to cook. I saw it as a sign of incompetence, but to just put myself in their shoes and do it. They never had the opportunity to learn. They never had that space to trust themselves and to be valued through cooking. There are so many women.

My mother, if she had a choice, she wouldn't have cooked for us. It wasn't her passion, but she was a little bit confined to taking that role in the family. So it really made me ask a lot of questions about the roles we also take in our family. Are we obliged to reproduce that? And how can we create our own family to go back to the cart? The question that represents the family for me is also an opportunity to create a new version of society. I think that our families are also like a small microcosm in which we can try new things,

and then it can expand, and create new models. So that's what I'm also trying to create in my own family. What makes you vulnerable? Hmm, what makes me vulnerable? So many things. Well, I have the impression that when I let my heart open, everything makes me vulnerable. I think that what makes me vulnerable is everything, because everything is an opportunity to name my truth. And it seems that I'm not always certain that it's welcome. And I'm getting more and more permission to name it, this vulnerability, to name my truth. And I feel vulnerable.

Being in the world, I feel vulnerable. So it's easy for me. You know, I'm very introverted. I'm more comfortable inside. You know, I'm very introverted. I'm more comfortable inside. I'm alone, but on an island, for a few weeks, I'm really good. It's my most comfortable position. I don't have that island, to call friends, to exist in the world. I'm deeply hermitic. I realize that I could have been in a non-Buddhist community

and spent my life in silence. I would have been very, very good. But it seems that life brings me, through many different things that have been presented to me, to go outside. It's not a comfortable position for me to be sitting in front of you right now. It's not something that... It's not an exercise for fun. There's a part of me that's rusting right now moment, and is like, why aren't we at home doing our own stuff? I'm forcing you to go outside.

Exactly. And it's not a comfortable process, but at the same time, I'm getting more and more satisfaction. And I realize that my vulnerability is the point of deep connection with others. And that's what I'm trying to do more and more when I'm

extiring myself, it's to not extirpate myself thinking about what others want to hear or the version that I want to play in front of the world. I want to exist in the world by really opening my truth. And that's also the idea of not putting on makeup for a year, it's to show my deep vulnerability and to get in touch with others. So I think it's something deeply uncomfortable for me to be in vulnerability, but there are so many beautiful gifts when we call ourselves our truth that I'm a little bit hooked on vulnerability,

even in the little anonymous interactions of life sometimes with people, with the person. But the truth is what is most untouchable. I think so, I think so. Because we assume our truth. If you say something that you don't fully assume, and then you're attacked by it or you're being told, you become much more sensitive or sometimes angry, while when it's something that inhabits us, at one point you want to say, well, you can think what you want, it's because that's how I feel it.

You know, we believe in it, you know, we don't have to... It's hard to... When you believe in something, the convictions take over. Because I tell myself, when you're like yourself, someone more inside, does it still make you feel good to hear you with words, that your ears hear what's going on inside of you? That's such a great question because that's what I would have gone for. It's like, ah, there's something beautiful in there too,

to exist outside, to make that come out, and to sit in front of someone. To be one-to-one is still comfortable for me. When you start to have one more person, I'm more uncomfortable. You could easily withdraw yourself. Yes, and be more observant. I like to take that posture,

to listen, to maybe throw a little sentence. But you know, I'm not in a group, I'm not the person who takes full place. And it can be really surprising for some people, but that's it. I feel good in one-on-one, because when I'm asked questions, it allows me to be aware of things that are alive in me, that I can't even touch when I'm meditating or when I'm really alone.

I see more and more the beautiful dance and the balance between the interior and the outside. And to move from one community to another, you know, existing in a community, it's become one of my biggest dreams at the moment. I want to create a community around me, and it's super uncomfortable, but I feel that, humanly, I need that. I need to be with people with whom I can have deep discussions, in vulnerability, that I don't need to be with people with whom I can have deep discussions about vulnerability, that I don't need to play a character, and I need these people in my life.

And my friendships have become that over the years. There are a lot of people in my life who have left, and that I have left too. It was often mutual, but there have been a lot of transformations in my friendship relationships in recent years because I had no interest in cultivating links that were not rooted in vulnerability. And I think that's also aging. You know, friendship at some point, I can be interested in going to drink glasses in bars. That's not what makes me trip in friendship. So my human relationships are really rooted in this truth, and it makes me feel good to see people now.

I do it a little dose, but my friends often have to harass me. I think that if we are friends, with me, we have to understand that. We have to accept this convention that it sometimes takes three or four messages, before I come back. But it's okay. But it goes with you. That's it. And I'm going to seize the opportunity because you just talked about community.

I still want to announce that you will be part of the great community of the Marie-Clobe. Yes. And that, thank you for accepting because the Marie-Clobe, well, it's a virtual community where we try to help people. It's a bit like what I was doing on TV, but now it's more personalized. We have the same specialists and there are, you know know, we talk about psychology, we talk about health, we talk about consumption. And we have parenting.

We already had parenting in English, and with my daughter, who recently had a child, I thought that for parenting 2024-2025, you understand that there was all easy information and that no. My daughter had issues with her son Henri,

which are not serious, but they are still issues that can become serious over time. And the lack of resources, Vanessa, the lack of tools, to feel alone through a bunch of things, I thought, OK, we have to focus on parenting, we have to help young parents, and that's what I thought about you. I'm so honored that you thought of me, Marc-Claude. When I received that message, I felt like I was seen, because it's the sphere of my life in which I'm most involved

at the moment, and in which I ask myself the most questions, because I was talking about it with the question of family. For me, it's a great opportunity to be a parent. I think it's a great role in my life. It's the thing that feeds me the most,. It's the thing that nourishes me the most, and it's the thing that keeps me most at heart. And indeed, there are resources. There are plenty of things that are said,

but one thing is the opposite. It's very difficult to navigate that as a parent. And when I became a mother, wanting to do well, I'm still someone in the performance. Maybe it's a little bit. I don't know. Maybe there are people. That's how you go deep into things. Look at me when I invest in a project.

I don't have the 5-roar. So when I arrived in maternity, I thought, well, I've always been the first in my class. Look, the parenting is going to be like, it's going to be like a piece of cake. It's going to be fine. I'm going to read the books that I have to read, and I'm going to do well. And I just realized that the more I went forward, the more confused I was like, it's going to be like a

bad apple, it's going to be fine. I'm going to read the books I have to read, and I'm going to do that. And I just realized that the more I went forward, the more confused I was. It's hard to be a parent in 2024, in 2025. Well, that's my concept because my daughter Angela, who was like you, first-class, and then finally, whoops, it's not quite like that, and there's lack of information. Yes, yes, yes. And also what I realize, and I saw a post on Instagram a few weeks ago that really made me laugh. It was a video comparing the generations, a little bit,

and it said, the generation of our parents, they were like, look, you have a roof over your head, you're fed, and we don't fight. You're safe. It's great, my job is done. And now we're like, is our relationship secure enough? Am I stimulating the language? Is the screen time... You know, we ask ourselves so many questions. We ask ourselves a lot.

We want to do things right. And with all this comes a level of anxiety for a lot of parents who don't know how to do things right. And I think it's difficult to reconnect with our inner authority. Not just go to external sources of authority, because there are plenty, and we can choose around us. And be confident. And not just do the right thing that's in fashion right now. We make jokes with my friends, but we're no longer allowed to say, I'm proud of you, our child.

There's something about parents when someone says, Hey, I'm proud of you. A little tension in the room of like, no, no, we're not saying that to children. Because we heard somewhere that we shouldn't have said it. So when we say it, we bring it back to ourselves when we're proud of our child. That's the truth, that's what we feel. So every time you say it, otherwise you say, I wouldn't say it. Imagine the internal struggle.

Well, that's it, to be a more natural and spontaneous parent, aligned with our truth, it made it really difficult. It was a joke at the beginning, but it became serious in our family. My daughter has incredible beauty, like she's a beauty center freak. She had her father's genetics, she's very lucky. So, I didn't want to be told what was beautiful. Every time my mother was there,

that anyone who told her she was beautiful, it seemed like I had to share it with something else. Yes, but she is also very intelligent. Yes, but she is also very, very... You know, it seemed like I didn't want her to be overvalued by her beauty. And I realized, even I, I prevented myself from telling her that I found her beautiful. Then I said to myself, am I creating the opposite problem, of wanting to do things well?

We're going to analyze in ten years. Well, that's it. All the children we haven't told are beautiful and we're proud of them. That's exactly what I'm like. How do my parents feel? Well, I said, yeah, that's it. I don't know what my parents thought of me. Yeah, yeah.

So I think there's still room to do the cleaning, to clarify things and especially to give yourself some extra credit to gain trust as a parent. So the goal is to talk about all spheres of parenting, both health, psychology, all that. So you have become the standard door for the parent-child aspect of the brand. Well, thank you very much. Thank you. We will continue, we will keep you posted, but I wanted to talk to you about communities. Yes.

And it's an exceptional community, the community of Marc-Lambert. I salute them because really, over time, we're developing something, and we've started doing things in person. That's it, it's becoming a sight for the eyes. Yes, it smells like people from isolation. In any case, we're going to have workshops live. I'm so looking forward to it. It's really fun. So thank you again. We're at the yellow level.

You're going to give me four cards, please. And I said four cards. Four cards. It's fun to learn how to know you. Calling all sellers. Salesforce is hiring account executives to join us on the cutting edge of technology. Here, innovation isn't a buzzword.

It's a way of life. You'll be solving customer challenges faster with agents, winning with purpose, and showing the world what AI was meant to be. Let's create the agent-first future together. Head to salesforce.com, Marc-Laude. It's fun. How many do I have to give you? Four. Four cards, that's it. Thank you. So, what did you learn about motherhood?

At what point in your life did you have to stand up? What type of lover are you? What do people reproach you the most often? Oh, that's... Okay, okay, it's starting to get spicy. A little bit more, yes. But above all, what did you learn from the interview? We understand that it's more personalized. Yes. At what point did you have to stand up? What type of lover? And what do people reproach you the most often?

It's very varied. What is it? Well, I'm going to talk about what type of lover I am. Because it's constantly moving. I don't think I've reached the end product yet. It's important to adapt. Yes, you have to adapt to the person you are with. And also, I think it's really...

I was talking about the family before, but the couple is also a place for me of beautiful reflections and opportunities to learn repeatedly on a daily basis. So yeah, I'm a... What type of lover am I? It's really changed in recent years because I was a passionate lover. I was like... You know, I'm a lion, so I'm in the big fire, Sagittarius, my moon is in Sagittarius, so I like that, I like that renewal, you know, I burn with passion. I'm the kind of girl who falls in love 12 times a day. I mean, I meet people, I have a little exchange, I get excited for everyone, I love people, I adore people.

As soon as I have a stimulating conversation with someone, I'm in love for 20 minutes. But that doesn't mean I want to be in a relationship with all these people, but I am in love with people. I love the truth about people. I love all the little things that make a person unique. When I look at someone, it looks like I'm wrapping it up, and I think sometimes it can be a little intense, but I like to discover people. So I fell in love repeatedly.

So my 20th was pretty much that. I'll tell you, I was a series lover. With different people, not 12 times in the same day with the same person. No, no, no, I changed. I explored it. You understand, like the haircuts. So at one point, I realized that I was just recreating the same thing. In fact, I realized that I was saying I was allergic to the routine, I was saying I was allergic to flat monogamous couples. You know, I was a little bit in that narrative of myself. I live adventures, and that's it.

And at one point, I realized that I had this aversion for long-term relationships, and everyday life, and the relationship, in quotes, which I found flat, because by falling in love with different people, what I was doing was, I was relearning to fall in love with myself again, because I was recreating a new opportunity to see myself through the eyes of someone else. You know, to make sure that someone falls in love with us, it's magical. This thing, we can become, we can become attached to this feeling.

And I think that's what's happening a lot in the world of dating, which I have somewhere to say at the moment. But I liked that act of falling in love, and discovering yourself, and representing yourself for someone. All of that, for me, was such a beautiful game. And I didn't want to get into what was flat, because it was work. Because at some point, we were doing the show, the representation of our mother. And then it goes down again. Yes, when it goes down again, it's confronting. And the person sees you in different situations.

Really, really. And I think I found that difficult. And now, that's what I prefer about the relationship of couples. I find it so beautiful to quietly pull out our little layers of ego and to fall more and more into our truth. And also mutually to get along. I think that's what couples do for me. It brings me to go more and more into uncomfortable zones

and to learn to breathe in that comfort and to learn to be in what I'm fleeing, in what I don't want to confront. You know, I think my chum is very, very sensitive, he sees me a lot, and he's able to confront me. And sometimes I'm like, oh, I hate that, I hate that. Sometimes he knows before me that I'm not doing well. Because he confronts you in your truth. Really. And he knows before me that I'm not doing well. He realizes it before me, and then it shocks me. You know, like, he's like, are you okay? And then I'm not doing well. He realizes it before me, and it shocks me. He's like, are you okay? And I'm like, yes, I'm doing very, very well.

And then he says, okay, okay, you're sure? And then it allows me to realize that I'm not doing well. I don't know what to answer him. He's very good at weighing my little buttons, but not to bother me, but really to take me to go and see what's going on. Because it's easy sometimes to just ignore what's going on, to sweep it, and just pay attention to what's going on. But sometimes there are things that call our attention, that have the taste that we look at them. And I'm very good sometimes to touch that and work.

And he reminds you. Yes, and that makes me angry. When he reminds me of him, I'm like, I was right in my story, that it was going well. So I'm more and more in love who is willing to go and sit down in these discomforts and to have discussions that are in the truth. I think that what he offers me, I offer him more and more. And we allow ourselves to grow. I think that I'm in love who is more and more to him. And we allow ourselves to grow.

And I think I'm a lover who is increasingly able to be at the top of the world, to hold the space, to truly support my husband in what he lives. And I wasn't there at the beginning. At the beginning, I wanted to solve it. I wanted to show that I was effective, that I had made personal development, and that I could fix these things.

And now I really learn to be more in humility and to be... Listening too. Yes, listening, listening. You've been through some trials, because it was on the public square. One that probably concerned your husband more, and another that concerned the couple that recently arrived, the loss of a baby, a perinatal death.

Does that solidify the couple? Were these points of anchorage in this couple's life? I think that all the challenges in our lives can either weaken us or come to solidify us. And even when we're weakened,

sometimes it will weaken us to open us up to go even deeper. So I don't see it as something that breaks us, but something that brings us even deeper into ourselves. But for me, those two trials were completely different. You know, in 2020, it was more of a shock, but I also experienced a lot through their research.

I think of you, when it happens, things like that. I often think of the other, maybe because in politics, that's it too. There are a lot of things that happen to the other, but you're next to them, and you have the rebounds of that. You have the looks of the others too. What is she going to do? Is she going to stay? Is she going to go? What is going to happen? It's going to hit you in the head. You know, you can imagine, but you know how she feels deeply.

It's for sure that I had these questions too. Well, yes, and there are a lot of people who wrote to me and who saw that, who saw me, and I felt really supported through lots of people in an unexpected way. There are people from whom I expected to have support, and there were none. It was a radio silence. And there are other people who manifested who were not necessarily the closest people to me in life, but there I said OK, OK. When I was talking about my age earlier, it was also a bit like that in my friendships, to realize who is ready to be next to me and to walk in the truth and in the moments that are difficult.

What are friendships that are more because it's fun, because, well, you know, we see each other in occasions that are fun, but who is there for real when it's going on, when I'm on the ground, who's not just going to call me to tell me if you need something, I'm there, but who is really going to introduce himself, who is really going to be there and understand received all these messages, it really did me good. And at the same time, I felt that it wasn't my story, so it wasn't my job to appropriate it. So it was even more difficult because I didn't have to speak on it. It wasn't my situation, but I lived a lot of these consequences. So it was really a big learning experience for me, to do the work inside, and not to do it publicly, and to do it in the intimacy of our home and our family.

It really solidified us. Everyone says it's like a kind of And the test we went through last summer, the loss of a baby, was also such an opportunity that initially weakened us. It's for sure that it weakens the bond, because all the marks we have at the beginning when we see a couple test, well, it doesn't hold up at all. We realize that, whoop, there's the structure. We don't see it the same way either. No, that's it. And we're not in the same place at the same time. We live in the same situation, but we decline it differently.

And sometimes it's hard to understand the other and bring it back. And we also need support. It's complex in a relationship. It's something I found difficult during the summer. The woman in the perinatal lobe lives something that is very, very concrete. Hormonal too. It's in the body, there are hormones, there is something too, there is the physical experience of the thing, and there is something very, very intimate that I think for people who do not carry the child in the couple, there is something a little more abstract, it is

more conceptual. It's sure that mourning is difficult, but it's on another level. And at one point, I wanted my other child to live it as intensely as I did, but it wasn't realistic to ask him to live, to have as much pain as I had and to find it so difficult. And when I made peace with that, to understand that it was right to look at the same situation and to have different experiences in the same challenge. I was like, oh, okay, that's it, that's it,

being able to support each other, it's that it also allowed him to take a place to support me in there. And it allowed me to be able to dive a little more into my pain, into my grief, and to live it for real, to feel supported by him. If we had been both at the bottom at the same time, we couldn't have supported each other and we couldn't have crossed that together. So it was really another moment that solidified us.

And that's what it seems like when people get married, they say, for the best and for the worst. But the worst, it seems like we say to ourselves when we hear that, we're like, I hope there won't be any worse. But there are worse. And that's what's nice like, I hope there won't be any worse. But there are worse. And that's what's nice too, to know that there will be worse moments.

There will be difficult things, but it's not necessarily the end. It's not necessarily... You know, there are gifts wrapped in... I like to say gifts wrapped in poop, but there are beautiful gifts wrapped in it, but we just have to help. I think it still requires going through this discomfort, mourning, everything that is difficult, and really telling yourself what is happening for real.

I feel that we could go through it. You talked about it on your social networks, mourning, perinatal mourning. In fact, mourning that you are living with your family. I find that important because mourning, I'll give you my book, La Couveuse, which talks about, among other things, the Perinatal mourning. You've lived it.

Yes, absolutely. And for men, there's something difficult in Perinatal mourning because often men talk less about this form of mourning. And I remember, I talked about it with Phil Roi, who came here, but who talked about it on TV. And I also talked about it with Serge Postigot, about perinatal mourning, because men live differently.

And that's when you're the twin, or the twin of these two men, because the woman is the one who lost him physically, but to be at the mercy of the other form of mourning. What you said is important. Because sometimes we expect, but how does it work? It's just that he lives differently. But the suffering is there. In the case of Philoron, he will always say,

like him, he is not able to talk about it without crying, while his partner is able to do it, but it was the end of a dream. You know, you understand, Yoya, but this suffering is not negligible. So you talked about it. And you know, you also talked about it together, Alex and you, on the radio, among others. I think it's a bearer for several people. Because there is...

It's not that there is a taboo around the Perinatal, but there is a silence. Because no one recognized these children. That's it. These are children who didn't exist in a certain way. So it's certainly more complex for people around to identify with mourning. Even in the family, it's more difficult. Really, really. And I realize, because we lived two mournings in the last year,

Alex lost his father. And with the mourning of a parent who has a life that has been known, that, you know, it seems like it's a grief that is validated, that is more shared. You know, we feel that everyone takes small pieces of it, and we feel supported in it. But for a child who didn't exist, this grief is more abstract. And it seems like a lot of people told me,

because I was talking about it a little bit, I took the initiative to talk about it, because I saw that people were not comfortable sometimes, and they didn't want to talk about it, because they didn't know where I had gone with my mourning, because there was silence. And there is no... The Pire Natale mourning is not as clear as the other forms of mourning,

I have the impression. Because there are indeed people for whom it is a bit abstract. I was told, well, you'll make another one. That's it, that's it. Okay, but we're playing in the loss of one who died in our hands, in our arms. We're going to... Yes, but it will never replace that pain. It doesn't replace, a human doesn't replace by another human.

Absolutely. So, to talk about it, I find it important every time we talk about it. Yes, just to come and make this mourning exist. I have the impression that it's just a mourning that needs to exist. It's part of your story. Yes. You know, it's always going to be part of your story. And for the couple, I have the impression that when we go through this kind of trial,

where we don't live it in the same way, but yet it's the same starting point. It's as if the other tests of life are calibrated. You know, maybe without us, if we hadn't experienced this, there might have been things that we would have found much more dramatic. But since we experienced it together, it seemed like after that, we were able to take bigger waves. We had a crew, we were more solid compared to the bigger waves. But there is the concept of resilience.

We talk a lot about resilience, even in the materials. You know, the materials that are able to be a little... Yes, flexibility to return to its initial position. And I think that's what it allows us to cultivate when we have challenges. It's like, I'm going to be able to take more and more of the little hand that's going to curve, that's going to make a curve with the metal edge, but you know, calmly, to be able to go further and further, precisely, to catch big waves and be able to go...

To know what to do. To know what to do. You learn to navigate, you learn to know the other too, because it also shows that we don't react in the same way. And that's normal too. Because often we expect, because especially in perinatal mourning, because we have less support, because there is a said name in the environment often, because it makes too much sense with that. They can't talk about the person who died, they didn't know about it. There's an abstraction that's huge.

It's that we live it even more, I have the impression, in two. So there are couples who will separate themselves after that because there is a disappointment from one or the other. They will think that the other has no emotions. But when we succeed in getting out of that, because you are still in the cold, it's recent. It's only been a few months and we're getting out of it. And we realize that there are certain, we thought we were at the end of this, well not at the end,

we never go to the end of a mourning, we mourn with our lives, but we had digested everything we had digested. And just a few weeks ago, we realized that there was something that we hadn't addressed that was still present in our dynamic and that we needed to name. And that's also a mourning, it's to give yourself the opportunity to have these different moments of weaving and opportunities. It's not linear, a mourning, we say it all the time, but it's really important to remember it.

And sometimes I tell myself, I shouldn't live a wave of emotions at the moment. We're six months later. I should be thinking about something else, but no, that's it. And it just allows us to... But it keeps you alive, too, the one who left. Really, really. And then, just a few days ago, there's a friend of our family who made a little drawing for my daughter, and he drew the flower.

You know, when our baby died this summer, There's a friend of our family who made a little drawing for my daughter and he drew the flower. When our baby died this summer, it was the time of the tagetes, which are big orange flowers. These are the flowers that we see at the death anniversary in Mexico. They grow full and they throw petals. And that was what was in bloom at that time of summer. And it's such a vibrant flower. And intuitively, it called me to this flower because it was the one that had the most on our field.

And it's the one we used when we did a little ritual to bury the little box with our baby. And there's a friend who just drew this flower for our daughter and it just made a lot of things come back up. And I was like, ah, it's alive and it will always exist with its symbols, with its name that we gave it, to name this child too. It's all little things that can look like nothing. And I honestly, before living this experience, I had a kind of judgment about the Pyrénatale mourning.

I was thinking, it's so intense for a baby that we haven't really known. And I didn't understand the depth of this mourning. And it's the same thing with animal grief. Before I even lived an animal grief, I would say to myself, Hey, come back from your dog, the gang! It's still just an animal. There are people who die.

But it's the depth of the... It's a companion. Yes, and it's the depth of the love that we felt. So even with a child who didn't exist, we felt love. This love is so great that we learn that we will become parents.

There is so much projection. It also allowed me to expand my field of empathy. There were some stories that I told myself about the Pyrénatal Epoch. And to have it in my little bag, my little bag of human experience that I lived, I think I understand better how to accompany my parents. There is a piece of advice that I often give to people who meet someone who has lived a Père Inatale mourning, it's to ask them questions, to listen to them, not to try to say, precisely, you're going to do another one.

But you already have one. It's not that. It's not good. Sometimes it's bad, but already to say, how are you doing? How do you feel? How do you live that? The answer comes. Yes, and not wanting to. We are uncomfortable with the suffering of the other, so we would say that we want to solve it, but we don't do good to the other. We do good to ourselves, we reassure ourselves. It's like, we're not good at knowing that the other person is inept, so we try to see the point. You live with that disease, because it's a disease.

When you come in with someone who has a headache, no matter what, there is already a situation that is uncomfortable. We know there is a heaviness, we know there's something, but when we don't know, it's for the person who arrives, she has to talk to the person she knows, who is in front of her. So it's how you go, you know, in relation to that. But it's important because the perinatal mourning is a mourning that is present. Several people will experience a perinatal mourning. When you start talking about the perinatal mourning. It will be part of the history of the So you have to let free speech too. The number of people that I have in my life with whom I had not spoken about it, who finally came to see me to tell me their story, I was like,

that's it, we are so many to have that in our history that it's beautiful to talk about it. And it's beautiful to open up the space so that we can name it that mourning and validate it. I like simplifying things really basic, but if you are in the presence of someone who is mourning, no matter the form of mourning, if your sentence starts with at least, just at least, the person does not suffer anymore, at least you can have another. Whatever it is that starts with at least, which is in the will to go light, if it starts with au moins, stop that.

Take the au moins. Take it, stop it. It doesn't go to a place of compassion. It goes to a place that wants to relieve suffering, and it doesn't work, and that's not what we need. We want to live it, we want to suffer it. We want to live it, we need to cross it, and to alchimize it, and to digest it. Very well said.

I'm going to ask you the question, what did you learn about maternity? Ouf! So many things! Maternity is the most difficult and beautiful thing in my entire life. Maternity is so great, and it taught me so much. It seems like it's endless. There are so many things I learned through maternity. But I think the main thing I learned through my maternity is the power of feminine power.

You know, I just recognized how incredible it is to be a woman. It's like, I don't know, a teenager, even a little girl, like, we're less strong, and we're less this, and we're more that. I had a whole narrative about what it's like to be a woman. When I gave birth to my daughter, I felt so powerful. Personally, it's incredible, this experience. It's transcendent, I think. That's how I lived it.

After that, I just became aware of all the women who had done that. That I saw every day, my mother, my grandmother, everyone I met, who had children, I said, they're all going through that. And no one is celebrating them 24 hours a day. I didn't understand, I was like. I couldn't believe we weren't valuing maternity in our society any more. To what extent do we not emphasize the work and power of the women's body, of the feminine will, and of being able to carry a child, to give a child to the world, to feed him, the gift of self that it requires, the know, it's painful, a birth, and when you go through the other side of that,

you're able to take waves of desire after that. You know, you say it relativizes things. Once you're in bed, the other pains, you're like, look, it's okay. It changes something. Yes, really. And I'm still scandalized by how much we don't value mothers in our society. I find that they are invisible. You know, you were talking about aging, we're becoming more and more invisible,

but I feel like we're being treated like mothers. There's something where, first of all, just calling it a maternity leave, I find it's... It annoys me, it's the most demanding thing I've ever done, to be in maternity leave. It's the word leave that bothers you. The word leave really, really bothers me a lot. The parental leave, as we are not in leave, we are in a... It's a professional break. It's a professional break.

But it's not a break in life. No, no. And we are investing in what, in my opinion, is the most important. Tomorrow, it's the humans who will form society. I find this role so important, and I find that we don't value it enough in our society. I felt invisible when I was in my parental home. I realized that I didn't feel any external recognition. I realized that I was very attached to external recognition, but it still put me on the track of how it's done that we don't recognize

the work of the mothers more, how it's not that the policies are not easier for mothers. I didn't feel supported, I didn't feel that there were structures around me to connect with other mothers who were living the same thing. I felt really isolated in my maternity. So that also taught me that in my maternity that I needed others. That I couldn't do that all of a sudden. And in addition, maternity puts us in a state of fatigue often.

The first year can be difficult. The first months are difficult. It's a big change of life. Even if the last weeks of maternity can sometimes be complex, it remains that when the baby arrives, it's a big, big change of life. We also have to get rid of a birth, we have to get rid of hormonal imbalance. Physically, the body takes two years to get rid of maternity.

And then you have a life to take. You know, carelessness, it's going away. I mean, you're responsible have a life to take. You know, the carelessness, it's going away. I mean, you're responsible for a life. If you don't feed this little head, he's going to die. No, but that's it. It's not a small responsibility. It's not a green light. No, that's it. You know, you have all this burden that comes with it.

And in addition, there is a state of fatigue. There is a state of devoutness. It requires a devoutness that is exceptional. So yes, it's true that we can feel isolated. Yes, well, I went when my daughter was one and a half years old, so one and a half years after I went to bed, I was shooting a TV5 show called Long Boar Aya and I went to Cambodia and I went to see a mother who had just come from bed.

And in any case, it was a show about drinks, and it was to talk about a little girl, I don't remember too much, but it really marked me how different the post-natal was in different cultures. I mean, I slept at home, but when we slept at the hospital, we left with the little cup in the car, and then it's like, here we go, good luck with that. And often, parents gather themselves alone, there is help that comes a little bit, but I realized while going to Cambodia that the main focus was on the sea. And then it so validated me so much

in... okay, that's what I felt, I felt invisible, you know, everyone comes to see the baby, you know, like, can we come see the baby? We're going to see the baby. And then he brings little pajamas and all that. And I was like, but who brings meals for the mother? Who brings... You know, it's changing. I feel like it's changing and the word is passing, but taking care of the mother, you know, she spent 40 days in bed, in the heat, we prepared her food. There was a community that knows. Your grandmother knew that, it's on the shelves. That's right, the shelves.

Because there were lots of people in the family, and when there was one who was sleeping, but for almost 40 days, there was someone who came to take care of her. Exactly. So you know, reliefs, it's really... it was essential, basically. There was like... it was a great logic, the reliefs. It's super logical, and it's made impossible

because everyone works. Who's going to take your reliefs? Who's going to take my reliefs? Well, my mother, she wasn't retired yet. I mean, there wasn't this person who could take on this role in my life. And then I said to myself, there's something really that doesn't work in our system because mothers need that, they need to take over. We're talking about the village for children, but we also need a village for mothers.

It takes a village for several mothers. Several mothers of our lives. But you're right. For mothers, I look at my daughter, whose baby is very close to her, she's five months old, and I try to help her as much as I can. But I don't stop thinking about it. Before, there were certainly several children, and it was complex, but still, to having someone who said,

«I'm going to cook, I'm going to take care of washing your clothes, I'm going to do things»… It's tough to be a mom. It's beautiful, but you have to say it. I remember when I had two children, and I was pregnant with Juliette. I had a lot of people who said to me, «The third baby is going to be born alone, you won't even realize it». enfants pis j'suis enceinte de Juliette. J'ai plein de gens qui me disaient à la soir, le troisième bébé il s'élève tout seul. Tu t'en rendras même pas compte. Je sais pas

comment on peut dire ça à quelqu'un en toute honnêteté. Que le troisième s'élève seul, c'est pas vrai. Si on vous dit ça, c'est faux. Ce bébé-là a besoin de toute l'attention. La même chose, oui il va peut-être jouer. Moi je me souviens mon fils qui avait trois ans quand Juliette est arrivée, il disait, elle est plate, son, who was three years old, when Juliette arrived, he said, hey, she's flat, she doesn't play. He was rolling cars in his bed, you know, in his little bedside table, and he said, she's fine, I said, but you're probably going to hurt her. And no, she's not going to turn your truck around, you know? But I mean, it's true that he could play or watch her, but he remains as a parent. It's so much responsibility.

Well, yes. It's not true that it's as much responsibility. It's not true that it's all about raising yourself. Maybe if you have 10, and at some point, there are some who arrive. At the same time, this person will say, I was too quickly responsible because I became the mother of my sister. I know it has consequences in some respects, but it must also be said that it is beautiful, but there are some gravel boots.

Yes, yes, a lot of gravel boots. And I'm really happy to see that in the public discourse and in the public space, we're talking about it more and more, that there are women who speak up, mothers who name it, that it's difficult, you know, but that doesn't mean we don't want to do it. It just means, I think we need to rethink how we support maternity. It's because the fact that it changes a lot, Vanessa, is that women feel less incompetent when it happens. Because always showing the exceptional side, beautiful photos, everything is fine, my baby sleeps, I'm in the studio with my baby, everything is fine. You know, it's beautiful to see. But when you're in your... you're on your way to a bus stop,

well, in those images, you'd like to see them too. Okay, I'm not alone, so I'm not incompetent in front of my baby. It's part of life. There are parts that I don't know what's going on, parts that I'm exhausted. I would need to see people, I would need to reconnect with what I had lived before.

You know what, you're talking about that, and there's a memory that just came back up. You invited me to your show when I was maybe a month and a half old, I was in bed, it was so, so, so, so cold. And I was so, I had the impression that I didn't understand anything. It was like my first time to come back to the world, to be in a professional context, on a set. I was so not there. That's the mattress, the explosion of the identity we had. We were putting the pieces back on and we became a new person when we were born.

But there is also something deep in the identity of the person who gave birth. There is something really deep in the transformation. I arrived on your set and I was so in the mood. I wasn't there and you said to me, welcome to the Vanessa show. And I said, you too. The first time I was like, boy, it's starting to hurt to do it. And then I said to myself, I felt your kindness of, I went through the word too, I see you as correct. We understand what the brain is monopolized by so many other things, hormones. But it's the arrival of the mental charge, it's the postpartum.

We're starting to talk about it more and more. We didn't talk so much about the menopause, the postpartum was like, it lasts three days, you sleep, it passes. While we understand that it's not like that. I didn't speak so much about menopause, as much as I did about postpartum, it was like it lasts three days and you sleep and it goes away. We understand that it's not like that, it happens. I remember, at one point I had done a show, Jacinthe René and we were talking about maternity, and Jacinthe was around the table, and at the same time she was like,

yes, but that's because my baby is going to be hungry. I said, look, she's eating during the show. Finally, she did the show with her baby, and she was eating. I said to myself, well, that's the truth. Can we stop showing a mom who just had a baby? And she suddenly did TV. And the baby... Because when I was on the other side of the house, and I was watching, among other things, two girls in the morning,

I was already listening to them in my maternity camps. Maternity camps... I was thinking, are they okay? They're all well dressed, all well-arranged. The baby, we don't know... You know, I didn't judge him, but I envied him. And I said to myself, we will try to stop showing that no, these women, when they come, they are also attached,

they left the baby somewhere, they are also thinking about that. Well, that too, it was in the taboos, I have the impression, because when I gave birth afterwards and I started working again, I was wondering, where are the mothers? How do they do that? The other mothers who had babies, who make TV, where do we put the child? How do we manage that? The five of them? Yes, how do we manage that literally? No, but all that, I was like...

I really had the impression that it was like... You know, it's Bianca Gervais, I think, who gave that image at one point. It's the impression of little ducks, you know, with a beautiful, graceful top and a pedal underneath. And we do all of that in an invisible way. And I think making these things visible, like to be a part of a show, and to show that it's part of the experience

of being a mother who works too, and just to come and normalize it. And I think, in any case, it makes me feel good to see these images, and it gives me the taste, it gave me the taste to exist even more in my maternity, and to assume it, and to talk about it, and to bring his child. I think I see it differently. I know that if we have a second child, I wish for a second child. I know that the post-natal period, I will live it differently. I know that if we have a second child, I wish it, a second child. I know that the post-natal period, I will live it differently.

I will be allowed to exist as a mother in life. And you didn't try to hide from me and do like before. And I'm not going to be a nuisance because I became a mother and I have certain disadvantages in relation to my colleagues. No, you have to assume to leave room for others too. Sometimes I think we become leaders by doing that. And when you have a second child, you won't be able to come back like in your life before.

Because you're already a mother. Sometimes the first one is like, well, it's going to come back. But no, but no! It will never come back. It will always be different because you have your child that you often wanted so much, and at the same time, once he's there, we would like it to be like before. I also find that when you have a parent, you you often wanted so much, and at the same time, once he's there, you want it to be like before.

I also find that when you have a child, sometimes you need to have some kind of question about it. It won't come back like before. No, that's it. Let go. Level red, I'm asking you to give me three please. We will only answer one question of the level red. I can't wait to read the comments on the discussion we have, because it's always interesting.

Because when people listen to us like that, it's as if they were talking to us. I like that in the comments because people are positioning themselves, saying, I agree, not quite, I didn't live like that. We never tried to make an echo room, but it's more about making people think. And that's interesting, to give people reflections. I was thinking out loud, with you, it makes you bounce, and it's fun to have other people bouncing. It's sure that it's after the shot, we don't hear you at the moment.

I find it really fun and it enriches perspectives too. Sometimes, that's it. My experience is so embodied because that's what I experienced. Already hearing you, it adds nuances, and then to go read people's comments. I love that. It adds more nuances. And it's just to open up. I'm sure some will say,

I know that, I did it for my satire. It's interesting. Red question. I'll answer one only. At what point in your life would you have wanted time to stop? What is your biggest source of insecurity? Have you already reached your physical or psychological limits? Have you already reached your physical or psychological limits? I'm going to take that one.

I think I'm going to take that one. I've already talked about it, but I come from the middle of the classic ballet. It was my first training before studying journalism, before turning to communications. What is valued in ballet is precisely not to listen to its limits. That's what's a little... that's what's desired. You hurt yourself, and that's also a lot in the world of elite sports. You hurt yourself, but you're still able to go further and continue, It's not bad, and it's also a lot in the world of elite sports. It's not bad, but you're still able to go further and continue, even if you've reached your limit.

It's beyond your limits. And I really held on to that discourse for a long time. I was like me, I'm not bad and I'm still able. I really valued myself not listening to my limits. And that was a narrative that took me a long time to deconstruct, because I also saw myself in all the areas where it brought me to reach my physical limits, and not having respected them, and to have gone a little further, and not, you know, in the years when I was doing a morning show,

well, there were plenty of times when I didn't listen to my physical limits, and I took even more on my plate, and I valued sleeping two hours a night and being able to still function. And my psychological limits, therefore, were often reached and exceeded. And I now understand that physical limits and psychological limits are important, and they have a reason reason to help and that it's not a weakness.

That's what I had recorded as a massage. If you have a limit, it's your limit of weakness. So the goal is just to push it a little further. In addition, in ballet, that's what you were told to do. So this choice to exceed the limits was validated, was even advised somewhere. Yes, that's it. And the more I was able to push back my limits, the more I was valued. So I was getting the appreciation to exceed my limits, but I realized that in a whole life it was not viable.

And I really pushed myself into zones that were... You know, the professional exhaustion, I think I had tools, and I think I was well surrounded at those moments, because I could really have been down. I was really often on the edge in my career, because for me, that was what was beautiful. It was like, look, I'm able to do this, that, that, that,

at the same time, be there. I left, look, I'm going to be there at the end of the week, I'm also going to be the super good friend who's going to be there, who's going to bring you something. You know, I wanted to be everything, everything, everything, everything, all at the same time, and not having limits, for me, it was my superpower. And then I realize over the years that

it's at a price not to listen to its limits. And now I'm an absolute master of my limits. I even put them a little too fast sometimes because I'm so afraid to exceed them now that I really need to place them because I know that it's like my simple point. But you know your signals. I know my it's like my weak point. But you know your signals. I know my signals better. I know it in my body when I've reached a point where I need to respect my limits. I know it when, even today, it's really anecdotal,

but I'm still one of my menstruations. And normally, now I have my calendar, I follow it, and I try to look at my, and I try not to put anything at the beginning of my menstruations because I know that physically I need rest, that I'm not my best either, my brain is a little more tired, we know hormones are a reality. It's not a fantasy invented by women, it's really present, it's concrete. We don't talk about women's health enough. What you saying is important. It's something we're still working on. But physically, it's also psychological.

It's global. And we pay the price for the rest of the month if we don't listen to this little moment. For you, it's more difficult, you know. So it comes every month. I know, it comes every month. And I also know that if I respect that time, and I often have a lot of resistance to that,

I'm like, no, let's continue and we're productive. It's very uncomfortable for me to slow down. But I know that when I listen to that, and I slow down and I rest for, what is it, one and a half day a month, concretely the beginning, that first day, when I managed to listen to that limit and to rest, the rest of the month I have so much more energy.

I'm like, you know, in a way I catch myself up, you know, I have creativity, I have renewed myself, a bit like the seasons around us, you know, winter is the dormancy of plants so that after that they can do another flowering cycle. And I don't understand why we the plants so that after that, they can do another cycle of flowering. And I don't understand why we don't embody that in us, because we see it in nature constantly. That's what it takes to be able to make fruits. There is no tree that is like that, with fruit at will, forever.

We know that there are cycles of recovery, of recovery. And we have this expectation towards humans and towards women in a way that's more incongruous towards women because we have a very tangible physical manifestation of this need for cycles. And I realize that listening to it, I benefit so much from it. And it's the most beautiful gift I've ever had, to be able to listen to my cycle. When I grew up, I was like, we don't talk about these things, it's vulgar to talk about it, but it's so important because it's the reality of so many people walking on our planet right now. The world hasn't been built on that, and the structures at work aren't built by that.

A little bit of everything. But now I realize that in my life, I want to implement that, and I want to respect that, and I want to be able to name it. And more and more, I'm surrounded professionally by people, men and women, and everything between the two, who are listening to that and who have become aware of it. And it's really normal to say, hey, what is it today? Day one.

You know, we say to ourselves, day one of my cycle. Everyone understands. Well, thank you for being there on your day one. Because I had already canceled. There was a little moment, I said to myself, I'm not going to cancel it a second time because I'm on my day one of my cycle. She's going to say, well, tiring, I'm going to put that away. She's listening. But I've seen from people, from girls close to me, it was okay, but I've seen them suffer.

And you see it, just physically, it's not going well, no, I'm in my week, it just started. And it's true that it's not heard, and it can even be perceived as a weakness, well, yes, indeed do, you know. But it's true that we don't have that many things to handle. We don't have that many things to calm it down. Surely, in the comments, there are many who will give us things. But it remains that otherwise you have to take the medication or change the pill.

There are things to reduce symptoms, but I think we pay the price later in our lives. I interviewed female hormone specialists, and that's what she said, she talks about perimenopause. And if you haven't listened to your cycle all your life, perimenopause is amplified. It's like an SPM on steroids. It can really intensify. So I think we also benefit from being at the service of each of our cycles. There are many ways. We have everything we need now to not feel the effects of that.

But I realize that, despite everything, I don't want to patch the symptoms. That's it. Yes, yes. And you have to find what you want. There are a lot of questions about women. I understand because you don't want to live the side effects of having patched your symptoms. That's it. That's it, we pay the price afterwards. So I'd rather live each of my cycles and be listening to what I need.

I need to eat a little hot soup and I need to be elongated. But I still work the days, one of my cycle, but in another way. It's rare that I'm going to come in front of a camera on day one. Anyway, thank you for being there. And the light is all red around us, I have the impression. I told you, you're going to see it as if you've never seen it.

It will open your game. Now we're at the eros and compagnie level. You're going to give me five, you're going to answer only one question. I have more choices. Yeah, that's it. One, two, three, that's it. I don't want to impose you. So that's a level that we like, the heroic and companion level. Has sexuality been a taboo subject in your family?

Do you prefer to be seduced or seduced? What is your way of showing your affection to the daily life? What importance do you give to emotional intimacy?, what is the importance of emotional intimacy, or what is your definition of desire? Oh, those are all very good questions! There are several. Okay, I'll show them to you. Hmm, well, there are some that I have already answered a little bit in our conversation.

So, I would go with... Oh, affection to the daily life, because it's a big topic in our couple. I'm more of the cat type. I don't need it much. I realize that. I like being touched. I like affection. But that's it. I'm very introverted. So I don't realize that the other is there. And I need to make a conscious effort because my boyfriend is the opposite. He is very affectionate. He needs us to offer affection marks.

And it can be physical, but by words too. And I realize that my way of showing my affection on a daily basis is more through... People talk about the five languages of love. It's more about making me useful, making gestures, making services. And that's how I feel loved too. So my boyfriend who says to me, You're a beautiful flower this morning, it doesn't do me any good. I don't feel... I'm like...

It's crazy, it goes through, it doesn't feel anything. I'm like, you know, it's crazy, it's going through, it's not crossing me. You know, when he flattens me, sometimes it's more than anything else. I'm like, get out of my bubble, you know. And he, on the contrary, really needs that. So we have to remember it mutually, what resonates for the other, because we don't have

the same languages. And that's something that's sometimes a source of discord, because we often offer the other what we like to receive. Do you make him doubt it? Do you have that impression? Sometimes he wants to validate with you because... Well, yes, because I think it's hard to be with me when I'm really in my head. That's it, I'm passionate.

Sometimes when I get into a subject or when I'm on something, I dive into it and go far away. I go to the end of my psychological process, I go to do some reading and I end up there. You know, the crazy geniuses with their post-it everywhere, I'm in that kind of thing. I end up in something and I feel like I'm going to crack the code of something. So I end up in there and I work. I love what I do. I'm really in my beautiful X right now.

So it's not work for me. I have a taste for doing these things. I close myself in my office and I can spend the whole day, well, the days of the week, we agree, but I'm not, and we're both in the TV work, my home and me. So sometimes we run into each other in the house and I think he feels a little invisible and he doesn't understand. He's like, you know, he's just happy to see me come. And I'm so into my business that I really have to remind myself.

I'm like, oh, it's true, the little hand on the shoulder, it's going to do him good. I'm going to go and flirt the thing if he's going to be happy. You have to rationalize it. I rationalize it, it it doesn't come naturally. So, you know, sometimes, you know, I'm just there, and I'm like, I'm leaving, I'm sticking it. But you know, it's a brand of love too, it exists for me. So I know what he needs. So I do it, but I don't do it because it's forced.

It's because I love it. But you have to think about it. But in fact, you do it out of love, by saying to yourself, he's going to want to say something. That's it. It's not out of love. By saying it, it will mean something. That's it. That's not how I would express it, but I know it will do him good. You respond to his needs.

Exactly. I would make a little tisane, and that would be my way of affection. Yes, I understand. Because he needs that, so it's a gesture of love. To what profound needs does he respond? Alex? To my needs? Yes, to what profound needs does he answer? Alex? Alex? To my needs? Yes, what deep needs do you have? He is very... Alex is someone who is extremely sensitive.

I think we can feel it through his music, through the words he chooses to read. He is very, very, very, very sensitive. And sometimes it's hidden behind certain things, but Alex, he answers a lot to my need to, you know, I think I felt, I self-invalidated myself a lot in my life, you know, feeling that I'm not enough, and it could be a question that I answer too, but I long believed that I wasn't enough, and that I had to do more than the others. And Alex answers me to my need to just have the right to exist.

It seems like I don't need to do anything. With Alex, I can just be, and that's enough. I don't need to do a little seduction show. He appreciates it, that's enough. I don't need to do a seduction show for him. He appreciates it, but I know that I can be myself, even in jogging, and he will sincerely find me beautiful. He sees me, he values me. So I feel free to be, and I can just be. Is this the first time you've known him? Really, really. It's the first person I feel like I can be with in my life.

And I don't feel like I'm going to be loved unconditionally. Because obviously, a couple, we choose each other, and we choose each other, and it's not like being a parent. But there's something with Alex that allows me to just relax, and not do a show, not try to be something I'm not. It takes a lot of work. There were a lot of times of resistance to get to touch that. He proved it to me at many times in our relationship that I could just be.

When I said at the beginning that my family is my little recharge spot, but that's also it. It seems that I come back to this, to this truth when I'm with Alex, when I'm with my daughter. It's OK, I can just be, and that's enough. And my background this year, it's just a little good smile that says easy peasy. It's just, it can be easy.

You don't need to be the best. You don't need to have your spotlight all the time. That's it. That's it. To have read 12 books on the subject and come up with three references and to have the interesting thing to say. Do you think it brought you some joy? Well, joy has probably come to answer something that was already present in me. Joy just came to exacerbate something that was already there. It just continued like that.

It just seemed like it gave me the tracks to continue like that for the rest of my life. And it's really something I'm unlearning. When I do interviews for my podcast, I take out my notebook. And indeed, the highlighters were there, they went there. And there were research files. I realize that I don't need to do all that, but some of me still believes in that, so I have to comfort her and talk to her.

And that's it, to quietly learn that just being is enough. What happens if you don't know all that? That's it. What would happen? That's it. What would be the worst thing to do? Life gave me a really nice lesson last year. I gave a conference in front of hundreds of people, big events and all that, and I was preparing for weeks.

I had everything in there. And I arrived on stage with four little boxes, my notes, that was my condensation of what I had repeated, well outlined, of course, and all that. And it was a little intern of 14 14, who brought things to the stage. She was in charge of bringing my boxes and my glass of water. And she got all the water out of my boxes. When she arrived to drop things, she was so nervous. There were so many people on stage, it looked like she had nothing to do.

She got everything out of my boxes. My boxes were unreadable. And then I'm the same, and I'm on stage and I have nothing left. I just have myself. And I'm in front of so many people, and I just have to be there. And then it was a moment, oh my, very uncomfortable on the neck, but after that I realized that I didn't need my boxes. It's going to be better. Surely.

More comfortable. Yes, yes. But there's a part of me who still needs those little pieces, who needs to prove that she did all the beautiful work. And I'm proud when I open my notes and people see that I really worked hard. But that's it, I realize that I don't need to do all that. So quietly, I'm deconstructing it, look. Bravo! It smells good!

But I find it so... It makes so much difference in life when you have that confidence in yourself. Especially when we talk about ourselves, like that, we could be wrong. And when you have a specialist, how can you be wrong? Something you've been studying all your life. You don't need to know more than the person in front of you. Perfectionism is a way to anticipate the future, but sometimes it's something that prevents us from advancing perfectionism.

Because we're afraid of failure. Perfectionism is a desire for control. It's like being afraid of not having control over what's going to happen. So, to put all the chances on our side to have control and to control the perception that others will do to us. And that's heavy. It's very heavy to carry. Imagine right now in someone's head,

they say, well, he thought that's it, and they integrate it, while they don't know anything. That's it. There's like a lie in there. In fact, there's like a false truth. Not a lie, but a false truth. Because a perfectionist, well, yes, there are perfectionist men, but there are a lot of perfectionist women.

And I find that sometimes it prevents you from moving forward. Because the fear of failure is so great that you say, well, I'm going to do it, but I'm going to be so lost that it's not necessarily going to be my spontaneity. I find that what you just said, perfectionism, there's a great reflection to have. When you feel like that, you know, like there's a incident, and then you say, but finally I can trust myself.

You know, people have invited you to do a conference. That's right. But also perfectionism, it makes sure that I think that there are a lot of people who can't put their magic in the world, their truth, because we think it's not enough, and we don't stop being. And that's also what I'm realizing more and more. I'm like, but it doesn't have to be perfect to exist. And that's it. I just say it and my body is like, yes, yes, yes, it should be perfect. And even coming here, I had this thought, I was like, how can I prepare to go sit with Marie-Claude? How to perform my interview.

What could I have prepared? But there's a part of me that was like, you're not prepared. There's really a part of me that's in a panic mode, that's like, what can I prepare? I'm coming to jazze with you, I'm coming to talk to myself, answer questions. I can't take notes on that,

I can't do research, it's my own life. And that's where I see that it's still alive in me. And it is, but at the same time, I mean... But already in being aware of it. I'm just aware of that and I laugh at it, you know, I see it in me and I see that this trait exists. And that's also in personal development.

We realize that it's rare that it changes for real. It will just exist and we learn to live with it and to include these little personalities that exist in us and to offer them space. I call her Linda when she wants to manage things well. So when Linda talks, I'm like, yes, Linda, tell me that. So Linda is like, you're going to have a real crazy one and you're not prepared. But you know when the boxes have been wet, you became free at that moment. Yes, that's right. All the field of possibilities was there because I didn't have to follow an order of the day. Because you had already prepared. That's right.

So after that, it's your spontaneity, your freedom, but you still have already prepared. So you don't go there either. It's not like you go somewhere and you have to prepare something and you do nothing. That's a form of negligence. But you did it at work. I'm proud of that spontaneity. You didn't help even in everything I did as a TV job. I had these discussions with research teams for a long time. It's too much money. I'm a specialist in front of me. I wouldn't become a gastroenterologist. I don't want that. I want to have angles, but I don't want to know everything about all the diseases that surround the digestive system. I have someone who studied for 10 years, who has been practicing for 20 years, you understand?

But it's very confident because you say, what could happen? It's that I get confused by words, by names. What does it change? It just turns into human, and it makes sure that you ask yourself questions from someone who doesn't know that. Because you're in real time. You're not with your cardboard saying, oh my God, he's leaving, I'm going there. Hey, no one saw your cardboard. And you've probably already experienced it in an interview, someone who has his cardboard, and you're talking. And the person doesn't listen, he's just thinking about his next question, and there's no real exchange.

It seems like you know what the next question is going to be. Well, yes. Because he wants you to say that, so the person is going to ask you. You know, me, when you have the answers, I think it's already interesting. If I know the answer, I'm going to be glad. I won't listen to you in the same way. No, because we just have a dialogue exchange that has been written. It's like playing a play, because you know what the person will answer.

There is something in the improvisation that is really, really magical. And especially when it addresses people who want to hear you. You know, I also do conferences. There is one called At the Rhythm of Life. And I start by telling people that when I did the assessment of my first 50 years of life, there is a note that I had already made when I wrote the assessment of my first 50 years of life, there's a statement I made when I wrote the cover, and it comes back all the time, it's that I regretted what I did better

than what I didn't do. And that follows me. So sometimes I dare to do things, but I hope I'll get it right, but I'll have done it. Otherwise, I'll have a doubt why I didn't do it, if I had done it. Getting it right it's failure. It's a learning process.

Yes, yes. But why do you think we're so afraid of failure? Well, because people... I have the impression that there is something facing self-confidence. It's... When you're stuck, it's what the others will think. It's the first thing I think people will say, but what will the others think? But at the same time, it's say, but what will others think?

But at the same time, you say, but what do I remember from that? Why did I get into this? I just think that you have to change where you look. You don't have to look at the other, you have to look at yourself. It's you who got wrong in your miscalculation of what, you misplanned your business. What can you change to improve yourself? I think that already, to look at yourself and not say,

hey, I'll never look at this person again, she saw me say such a thing. Not at all. Often, this person sees you, she doesn't think a minute later. So, you know, failure, I think, is a lot related to the look of others. This fear. And, you know, if you have a failure, you know, we've had, well, a political failure is a public failure, an excessively difficult failure.

Sometimes we have failures that are no longer solitary and that will reach us too. But we have to analyze it. Because I think when we analyze it, a failure is never a failure. A failure will give an opportunity to rise. And what I often say is that when we experience something difficult, which we can call failure, it forces us to dive. And sometimes there are some who will dive more raw to find what makes this famous and your reset. It makes that once you have it, you will finally go back up. And when you go back up, you see a lot of things you've never seen when you were above the water. So it gives you opportunities, and that's where I think failure becomes worse, when you let yourself have time

to experience failure, to understand it and to go back to the surface. And to learn from failure. And to accuse it, not to camouflage it, to say, I should never have done that. I should have said no. The next time, for example, that we're going to offer this, I'm going to say no.

Yes, but I think it's relevant to have... It can be a newspaper or whatever, but to take notes on what we learn too. We don't expect a baby to learn to walk on the first try, get up, walk and be like, and there you go, without falling. It's impossible. But he tries things. It's because in life, when you're too conscious,

that's when you try to do the least. Because, say, I'm going to blow my face, but if you try it, try it. Yeah. And if you blow your face, well, you really did it instead of imagining blowing your face.

Yeah. You see, I have to, not I have to, I want to learn to ski because of ballet. I've never skied. You know, we had the right to not get hurt. And then I turned 40 soon, I want to learn how to ski because of ballet. I've never skied before. We weren't allowed to. We weren't injured. And then I turned 40 soon, and I never skied.

But it's hard. My daughter is 6 years old. She went on the big slopes with her father. And I'm there. I'm going to have to go to the school slope. I'm going to have to fall on my butt in front of everyone. And for me, I really have to talk to myself. It's very confronting.

It's even a little bit panicking. I'm just thinking and I'm hot. I'm like, oh my God! And at the same time, it's nice that at almost 40 years old, suddenly you add a new skill, which is that of skiing, you understand? That's what I think. Not to age, you know, not to get old. Not to get old.

That's it. That's it, not to get old. Not getting old. That's it. That's it, not getting old. Continue to be curious, to try things, and there's no age. That's what I realize. I was like a turning point in my aging. That's why I keep doing new things. I went there with humility to accept, to fall on my butt,

but to be able to continue to live experiences and not just stay in who I am. The version of Vanessa with whom I am comfortable. Vanessa doesn't ski because she's done ballet so she can't ski. And you know, I see it as if... Vanessa doesn't do ballet anymore. Well, that's it, at some point you have to update yourself and be something a little more fluid in who we are and to leave room for yourself to be a new version of yourself.

Well, try new things, otherwise life, you know, you turn around at some point. No, but that's it. Listen, you complain about his life. The question to the opto-network Vanessa. Yes. If you looked at your life through the eyes of little Vanessa, what would you see? It's funny, I... I... I... I... She's often there, little Vanessa.

I often think of her, you know. I... Vanessa, I think of her. Little Vanessa, for the context, let's say I grew up in the suburbs, Saint-Étrès, Montreal's suburbs in the 80s and 90s, middle class families. My father was a little, he was a newbie in the 70s, but he was in construction, and he was very disappointed about the show business. But we were talking about it in a mythical way. It's like we had my father's newspaper cutouts from the 70s when he was a star. What's your father's name?

My father's name is Michel Pilon. He's a singer briefly in today's youth. For me, it was something very, very mysterious, very far from us, but that had existed somewhere in our family history. And I honestly didn't have those aspirations. For me, I wanted to be an archaeologist, I wanted to travel, I wanted to travel the world.

I wanted to be an explorer. I wanted to open paths in the jungle and discover Mayan temples. That was more of my professional aspiration. And then, life gave me the will to orient ourselves sometimes, to give us opportunities. I picked up a place that I would never have imagined. I often see little Vanessa and I'm like,

she doesn't understand anything about the life I'm leading at the moment. And at the same time, I feel like I honor her every day because I keep listening to my curiosity, exploring different avenues, trying things out, going to the countryside, even though I just grew up in the city and I have no idea how it works, not having a tomato plant die, and like, you know, to continue learning and trying new things. And I dared to be in spaces that intimidated me. To speak sometimes to people who studied, who are in their field of expertise, and to be there, and even just to be a little bit in the show business. For me, at first, I was like, I can't believe I'm here,

I don't have a relationship, what I'm doing on these platforms. I often looked at that from the point of view of the little Vanessa. And yes, I feel that when we listen to life, when we say yes, even if it seems a little bit incongruous, we can really be surprised at the place where we're going to gather. And I want to continue living my life like that, even if I'm even more solid in who I am. Even if I know myself better,

I still want to continue being surprised, you know, to receive invitations from life that are completely different. You know, am I going to continue doing what I do? Maybe not. I'm thinking that in two years, I'm going to be in something completely different. And that's also correct. I want to continue living my life like that.

Well, you're going to continue being my life like that. Well, you keep exploring. Yes, really, really. And not to be attached to what I've done, to what I've been up to. And I'm just looking forward to seeing where I'm going. And that, for me, you were talking about aging. It excites me about the idea of aging, because I tell myself, you know, it's not tightening the possible rates,

it's just widening. I'm like, I can be full of other things now too. You know, I still have years of energy left. The experience you have, of life too, you made you make different choices. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I think of Vanessa and I'm like, she must really be happy. I hope she's happy. But in any case, I'm very happy with this meeting we just had.

Me too, sincerely. It's been a good time. Thank you very much. Just before, I know people are going to ask us questions. Talk to me about your podcast because you just talked about it. So talk to me, what is your goal? What are you talking about and all that? Well, the School of Life, which is the name of my podcast, I really said to myself, because on television,

what I did when I was more in the posture of the host on TV, I often talked about subjects that came from the outside. It's not imposed, but I was often more placed in certain cases, and I talked about subjects that were not ones that really made me vibrate. And I realized that my life was very focused on personal development and a lot of things that piqued my curiosity. And I really felt like I was going to school, I had performed super well, I had studied everything, I had all the right answers in my exams. But I had the impression like I was missing fundamental skills to navigate the human experience.

And that was it for me in the last few years. It was really going to go and ask questions, to really find things that actually help me be human in life. And I know it's very, very broad, but you know, things as simple as understanding our hormonal cycle, when we're a woman, you know, understanding a little bit better how to be a parent with our child, you know, it's still things, understanding my human design, which is a system that allows us to, which is a little, in any case, it's a little esoteric, there are still some little, there is still spirituality in my podcast, but just to go and look for some tools that

allow me to navigate my human experience more fluidly. It's like saying that we're constantly learning. I'm really going to just keep learning by inspiring myself with nature, because that's where I live now. For me, it's really my biggest source of learning, just taking the time to observe nature and to go and look for the teachings that it offers us. There is so much wisdom in nature. I know it sounds really, really blurry and very, very quaint, but I really believe in it more and more.

I sit in nature and I notice things and I'm like, OK, everything is there. Everything is there. So it's a beautiful project in which I have a lot of pleasure. And I try to infuse a lot of humor too, because sometimes in personal development, there is something a little serious, a little heavy. Work on yourself. It's work. And I know there is, but can we also do it by infusing humor and lightness and putting color?

Life? It's life, it's life and humor too. That's it. So it takes a lot of work from the School of Life. It's very broad. I think I could do a better synthesis job, but I want to be able to stay free too. But the School of Life, I mean, the School of Life, everything is broad in your concept. We're expecting that when you say that.

That's the School of Life. So I want to, it also gives me a kind of freedom to go where I want to go. And it evolves with me. It evolves with you, the explorer. Thank you very much! It was a pleasure. Thank you to everyone for being there. See you in the next podcast.

Thank you. This episode was presented by Karim Jonka, the Reference Care Ambassador and the Marie-Claude virtual community. The Table Game opens your game and is available everywhere in stores and on Randolph.ca.