OverDrive - Button on Tavares' contract viewpoints, the Panthers' winning roster and teams looking to improve

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

TSN Director of Scouting Craig Button joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the NHL, the Panthers' dominance in the league and the management perspective of a winning team, John Tavares' contract value, teams looking to improve their roster and more.

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dreamed of. And the Stanley Cup has been handed out. Here's our director of scouting at TSN joining us on the Maple Tour the hotline Here's Craig Button. How you doing Craig? I'm good. I have to answer Jeff's question. No, I'm surprised He's got enough history of showing that he's stupid and he's immature So what do you expect and and what you know, you got a talent you got a talent there Why did you win the fifth round of the NFL draft? What did Tom Brady say when Deion phoned him and asked him what kind of car he should get?

Tom Brady said, I suggest he gets into the film room and does some studying. Like, Sanders' priorities, they're all wrong. And until he gets them in order, this is just gonna be another, like, what's next, what's next, what's next? The NFL sent a message to Sanders We're not really interested in you

Yeah, yeah, we're would you be we're putting the pressure on you to prove everyone wrong and again He's it's not he's not going to jail or anything, but still you get cited twice in, Ohio That's where you're gonna be living and playing and trying to perform everything counts and You know, It's an interesting question, as I said, Craig, we're into draft season now, the NHL draft, NBA draft right around the corner. You've been on both sides of it for decades now. The talent, the game tape is one thing. How much of the evaluation process is away from the rink?

Take us through that process if you're a GM, director of scouting, whatever it happens to be, and you're looking at committing to upwards of seven, eight, nine, 10 different kids next week. Yeah, and I think that you're always trying to find, I mean everybody uses the word character or what not. In my history, rarely have I come across players that weren't good people. Now, I don't think it's about being a good person or not.

I think it comes down to, you know, where are you going to take a chance on skill, you know, where, you know, there might be some value there. But most importantly, my question is really simply this, who can help you win? I hope you guys aren't shocked when I say this, 300 players that are currently playing in the NHL don't help you win. That doesn't mean they're not good players at different levels. That doesn't mean they weren't good enough to be in the NHL. That doesn't mean that they're bad people. But that's the first question I ask. Who can help you win? Yeah. Greg, with the Florida Panthers going back to back and being into three straight finals,

how difficult is it as a manager to not look at them as some kind of reference point when drafting, possibly signing players July 1st and wondering like, we got to play against them, they're who we wanna beat, like is it difficult to not do that? No, I think it's prudent to look at the teams that have been successful. And I think the template is the same. I don't think the template changes with the Florida Panthers.

It was the same for the Vegas Gold Knights, it was the same for the Tampa Bay Lightning when they won, it was the same for the Penguins, it was the same for the Red Wings. The template isn't changing. And we get focused in on the draft, and we get focused in on July 1st. You know, there's so much more that goes into it outside of those days. And I think what you always have to be ready to do is evaluate what fits for your organization. I'll give you an example. Nate Schmidt and Dmitry Kulikov, who were the bottom pair for the Florida Panthers,

they both played for Paul Maurice at different points. And so now Bill Zito is looking to build out his bottom group of his defense, and Paul becomes part of that. But I don't think it's just about, Oh, did you, do you know them? It's about Paul saying, I know how these guys can maximize their abilities with our group. I know how to use them. And so that's one example. When, when you go to make a trade, I mean, when they made the trade in 2022 for Matthew Kachak, I mean, they traded two really good players in Hubert Owen Weger. But it was the statement that Bill Zito made that said, we're changing the competitive tenor of our team.

I mean, Sam Bennett was always competitive and he's emerged really nicely. But you look at the Florida Panthers, tell me what player is not competitive on that team. Star, okay, yeah, that's right, You don't have anybody because there is nobody because they're committed to finding those players that are committed to being competitive in multiple situations. It's not just Barkov or Reinhardt. It's all those players.

It's Lundell, it's Listerainen and they get Listerainen in a trade. They get Forslain on waivers. They pick up Seth Jones. Look what he comes in there and i think that you're always trying to remind yourself what fits for us tip to your point jeff to what is going to give you all to my success

i'm going to come right back to what i think the draft who helps you win so you just laid out competitive nature where in your depth chart would be iq like hockey iq thinking the game at a high rate? Would you sacrifice that for maybe a little speed, for something else on your maybe bucket list or on your check mark list?

I don't want dumb players, period. I'm not sacrificing it. Buddy Ryan, the NFL coach, he was a great assistant coach and a head coach, he had a line. He goes, you need smart players and you need players that play hard. Then he goes, the dumb player will hurt you and the non-competitive player will never help you. That's where I'm at, Jamie, and I've never wavered.

And I'm never going to waver. And people look at lists and say, oh yeah, you know, I recognize skill and I think what I do now is a little bit different than when I worked with the team because you have to recognize skill, but trust me, the teams are looking down their list and they're going, yeah, he might play in the NHL but he ain't playing for us. With Greg Buttons, so the Matthew Shane contract today,-signs in Dallas 4 years, 4.5 million. Here we go. You're Brad Tree Living and you're waiting for a call from the representative of John

Tavarez. How are you using the Dushane deal and applying it to your conversations with John? Well, this is a big thing with Matt Dushane. Matt Dushane signed a $56 million seven-year deal with the Nashville Predators. He ended up getting bought out. And now when you look at the four years that he got in terms of total salary, he got $36 million from Nashville plus his buyout of $13.33 million plus now what he's signed without.

He, over the course of the seven years, when it ends next year, that'll be the seven year cycle. He will have made more in AAV at 8.55 approximately than what he was making at 8 million when he signed that contract. So the Dallas Stars took advantage of a situation and certainly Matt, it fit for Matt and what not. But I mean, when you look at the whole overall value of the seven years, it's more. So I don't think it unless John Tavares comes to Brad Shear Lemon and says, Hey, you know what, I'm happy to play here, put a number on paper of a 5

million. I can't speak for John Tavares. Maybe that's what's important to him. But at the end of the day, I think if John on to bars gets to the market he's gonna be very very surprised and happy at the same time what teams are willing to pay well that that is the target of what was that number guys what does that mean craig he had thirty eight goals i think that number seven and a half million maybe eight million

steven stankel signed for for 32 million over four years last summer. You can't tell me that what John Tavares did this year is in a similar framework. Yeah, well, I think that's a reasonable comparison. I think it's an accurate comparison. Now the difference would be, now we've seen what happened with Stamkos in Nashville, and I'm curious if teams look at that and say maybe we should take that into consideration. Secondarily, Stamp Coast is a Stanley Cup winner and John's not. I'm trying to figure out how you put the two together. There's 31 other teams, so if it's a team that's not thinking we're cup competitive

right now, seven or eight million, if you're in a cup window, I don't know if you can justify that for John. And I think the Leafs are different personally. I mean, I look at the Leafs like they gotta start winning some of these contracts. They gotta, I think, hold his feet to the fire. And if he doesn't wanna agree to that, no problem. But if I'm the Leafs, I'm looking at this saying,

I can't pay you seven, seven and a half. There's just no way. Which is fair, Brian. And like I'm a, so if John wants to come back to the Toronto Maple Leafs and play for less than what he can get in the open market, I fully get that. John has loved playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs. He's been a terrific person representing the Toronto Maple Leafs. He's been a very, very good player for the Toronto Maple Leafs. But you're right, so if other teams and you want to justify it, but I think John, you just, I think you just hit something that I think is, that I would suspect is important to John Tavaros. Where could I go to have a chance at winning the Stanley Cup? And I think that he would be willing

to take less money to go to a contender than he would to take less money to play in Toronto. Yeah, and that is a very important conversation that I don't know if Leaf fans want to hear right now. Like, you know, people are running, getting crazy with the McDavid stuff. If he wants to win, they'll at least have him won in 60 years.

Like, the Leafs aren't the pinnacle of winning. Yeah, that's not the threat, I don't think. Yeah, it's not, like, the threat is not, the Leafs aren't the pinnacle of winning. Yeah, that's not the threat I don't think. Yeah, it's not. The threat is not the Leafs will help you win. I mean that, and let's be clear, like John came up here, he wanted to win. Of course he wanted to win, but he also wanted to come home. He wanted to play at home. And you know, that is an interesting question. Like what are the priorities right now? Is it comfort? Is it home? Is it winning? Is it money? And we don't Is it winning? Is it money? And we don't have the answers,

but we're gonna find out the next week and a half. So would it surprise you guys if he waited to see what the Toronto Maple Leafs do? Like who they could acquire in free agency? How the fallout of free agency, i.e. Mitch Marner, whatever Brad does, where John just sits back and goes, hey, wait, you know what?

I'm just gonna I'm just gonna take my time here. Would that surprise you? Well, that's right me It wouldn't surprise you Craig yourself if he waited Yeah See my that's the game of chicken that fascinates me because I think what John could be risking is the leaf say actually we found Something and it's a replacement and thank you for your services. Like anyone plays the waiting game, it's always a risk for someone to be sitting without a chair.

It could go the other way. And that's the question that like who's in a position of power right now? Is it John or is it the Leafs? It wasn't a risk for Nazem Kadri. He waited. Yeah. And in terms of what? When he went to Calgary afterwards?

Yeah. Well, he got paid, that's for sure. But do you think he wanted to stay in Colorado? Well, I think that he was trying to find a way to stay in Colorado. But I mean, the money became such that I don't think good players are ever going to pay a price. And again, if the agent, and John is represented by CAA, their top quality agents are representatives. Stamkos is represented by Newport.

We know how the top agents operate. So much like Nazem Calgary, hey, here's what we're looking at. Nazem Calgary was offered more money outside of Calgary, but the fit in Calgary and the communication that they were continuously having to try to make it happen. And Brad Tree living with the manager there when he signed him. And so Brad had to do some maneuvering and had to move some money out and move some players out and he did do that.

And that's why I say, I don't think John Tavares will get hurt by waiting. I think John Tavares, if he really wants to stay in Toronto, he just got to be honest and say, here's what I'm waiting to see what you guys can do. Because I think that John is focused on trying to find a way to compete for a Stanley Cup. So Craig, do you think there's going to be a lot of, like with the unrestricted free agent list, would you argue or do you think that there's going to be more action as far as proactive managers trying to trade for players? Just it being, I wouldn't say a watered down list, just a different, a unique type of list. You've got a few top end guys and then some real serviceable players but not superstars.

I think that'll be the case. I definitely agree with you Jamie in that regard because I think that'll be the case. I definitely agree with you, Jamie, in that regard. Because I think that there's teams that are looking at their own situation, trying to maneuver, whether they're trying to sign a free agent, they need to free up some money to trade a player. Some of the younger players that are coming into a new salary cap scenario scenario and let's face it the landscape now is is changing enormously and players want to get paid and you know you you you heard jimmy what master kichuck said the other day i'm a player's guy i'm telling them to go get as much money as they can and so teams

teams now have to recognize that too so and the players with the flat cap you know haven't been able to really you know maximize or to been able to really, you know, maximize or to maximize to any real extent, you know, their opportunities. Well, now that opportunity is opening up. And I think that opens up for the RFA's. I think that opens up for the potential UFAs next summer.

And now, how does that translate into movement? And so, I think those are the reasons why they'll be the what we'll see some what we'll see some some more the trades and younger players being moved players with one year left on their contract being moved because of that reason. Yeah there it appears as if there's there's like a world in the middle there where if you're a GM that is willing to be patient

and you know, push your timeline down the road a little bit, you could possibly take advantage of what feels like a lot of desperation in the league right now. And can I throw in one thing too guys, and it's a question more, is there any team that right now we believe are in a rebuild like a Well, I mean Chicago and San Jose those they're continually you know they're continuing their process I think there's a ton of teams above them that are phonies that think they're doing something and going somewhere and they're going absolutely nowhere

The reason I say this and Craig I I don't know why you're in, but you keep hearing, you know, a lot of teams are buyers, are in on it, you know, going to be in on this, you know, and listen, Chicago and San Jose, absolutely. They've got cap space, they've got to make their team better to surround their young players with good players. But I'm, like, is Pittsburgh potentially in a a rebuild is, you know, what is Vancouver going to do? I'm not suggesting they should. I'm just saying, like I look at teams because

when we talk about the trade market, I want to hear who's available. Jamie, if you talk about Pittsburgh having players available, who wants to get those aging players there? Or a guy that it just, you don't know what you're going to get in Carlson? Sid's the guy, but that's a different story, clearly. But you're right. What is Malkin, like we'll ask you, Craig. Let's say Malkin calls up Dubas and goes, fine, I'm out. You're not going to extend me or whatever.

Put me on the trade block. What does that deal even look like for Evgeny Malkin? Yeah, probably. It probably means, I mean, his contract, I think it's 6.25 million. I think a team can absorb that. But, you know, Ricard Raquel and Brian Rust are pretty decent players.

Yeah. And so, let's forget about those guys. But, Jamie, just to your comment, and I'm gonna tag it with Jeff's as well, is that patience. So, why don't we ask, how about if I ask the question differently or answer it with a question. How many teams are really close to competing

for a Stanley Cup? So wouldn't it be prudent for them to be a little bit more patient instead of chasing their tails to Jeff's point? You know, teams think they're doing something and then they go, oh geez, what a mistake. And I think that's where teams can take advantage. You know, recognizing where you're at. We know where San Jose's at. We know where Chicago is at. I think everybody knows where Pittsburgh is at. But now you're looking at other teams and you're going like, like, the Islanders aren't Stanley Cup contenders. The New York Rangers aren't Stanley Cup contenders. Like, who are that? I think Dallas has got to ask themselves some real serious questions. Who's going to be available out of Dallas when you look at their cap space?

So if you're patient, there's players that are going to become available that nobody even knows right now who's going to be available. But if you don't have the flexibility, now you can't act. And I think that that becomes something that's pretty significant as well Yeah, that is the beauty of it where like there there's gonna be like there's gonna be a couple of moves that happen this summer And it probably happens every summer where the headline will be the one team getting a player getting a couple players And then you'll look at it six seven years down the road and say man look who the other team got and no one was buzzing about that because they got the kid or they got the picks and that pick turned into this guy it happens all the time but that's not

that's not sexy you know it's not it's not going to sell tickets but it may be the shrewd move Craig to take on that viewpoint. Exactly Brian listen I'm a big believer that unless you're in Toronto, unless you're in the huge markets of football, baseball, and there's very few of them, winning sells tickets, not individual players. And that's the thing. Now, could a player like, you know, sell a little bit? Yeah, we know it can happen. Bob Ganey said this when we worked together in Dallas. He said, sometimes there's only one thing worse than not getting a player in free agency. It's getting a player in free agency.

So you better be careful. I like that line. That is true. That is very, very true. All right, Craig. Well, it's going to be a busy couple of weeks for you, as it always is, but we're looking forward to seeing everything leading up to the draft and free agency and we'll do it again soon. Thank you for this.

We will. Yeah, thanks guys. It'll be fun. You got it. There he is, Craig Button. This Pride season, celebrate with the station that's as bold, vibrant, and diverse as you are. I Heart Pride Canada, from dance anthems to pop icons. Let's celebrate diversity and love and hits from

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