OverDrive - Button on the Maple Leafs' organization next steps, the Marner's future and the outlook of the team

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

TSN Director of Scouting Craig Button joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the Stanley Cup Playoffs, the Maple Leafs' failure to find success against the Panthers the organization's next steps on the team, Mitch Marner and John Tavares' future, Brendan Shanahan's potential departure, the farm system in Toronto, the Oilers' quest back to the Stanley Cup Final and more.

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on the Maple Toyota Hotline. How you doing, Greg? I'm glad you said Bieber checked out. Well, I mean, he checked out later than the Leafs checked out. Yes, he did. He did make it further than they did in terms of effort and making it interesting. There's no questioning that. What do you make of the report? I guess Chris Johnston wrote this morning that ownership was embarrassed by that game.

And what do you like if you're working for the Maple Leafs and you see that report, do you hear that? Like, how do you respond if you're Brad Treleving or Craig Barube or maybe any of the players? Well, everything starts at the top. And you know, when ownership endorses or criticizes or says what's acceptable or not acceptable, that's where it all emanates from. So you know, when you look at ownership coming out and saying that that was embarrassing, well, I mean, it's not, it no assessment is that they didn't surprise me the fact that they're ready to say it i think it's a good thing

i think it's about saying what's not acceptable not acceptable yeah i mean that was ugly man that was as ugly as it gets craig ready rethink it went wrong yeti i mean i know that's just a it's kind of a lazy comment or statement or question But it's just game game five

I think we all acknowledge we can let you can live with a stinker and then they bet they came back with a game six a solid really good team effort on the road Game seven like where if you had to start maybe one thing like what do you see? That just where it where it snowballed and how it all went wrong? Okay, so let me, like I don't think it's an easy question. I don't think it's a layup. But when we talk about the Stanley Cup playoffs, and I use the term, who can go the longest,

the hardest? So when you train for a marathon, you gotta run the miles. You gotta run the miles to be able to get through a marathon. You don't train for a marathon by running 16 miles. You gotta run 20, you gotta run 22. You gotta know what the pain feels like. So when you ask me where it started, I don't think there's been any question

that this Leafs team can muster up enough for a game or two, but when it gets really hard, have they been able to train to push through the wall? It might have started eight years ago. It might have started seven years ago. You don't find out what you don't have until you get there and realize you don't have it. And you go, I didn't train enough. Yeah, I didn't put in the miles to get through the marathon. Whatever analogy you want to use.

So I look at a team, and I said this, I look at a team that has had a fantastic regular season, they've got lots of skill, but they have not understood that the artistic ways of the regular season are not going to be the way of the playoffs. Greg, there's two players unrestricted for the agents. What would your approach be if you were the GM? Real simple. We're moving on.

Both of them. Yeah. Yeah, that's Marner and Tavares. And in Marner, we don't know what his plan is if you want to stay john was the second one to stay brought i understand that they have on the manager by instead i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i They've been part of the thing. Mitch Marner's a heck of a player. Mitch Marner's, we know that he's a really good player. We know John Tavares, what he's done this year. The Boston Bruins traded Joe Thornton. He was the first overall pick in 97. And they felt that like they needed a change.

It wasn't about one player, it was about the team. And then they built up and then they ended up winning the Stanley Cup. I think that's exactly where the Toronto Maple Leafs are at, Jeff. And I'm not gonna say that I that I like in a different scenario, like what you want, John DeVarse. Yeah. But I want Mitch Marner. Yeah. Like they're good players.

I'm not focusing in on one player right here. I'm focusing in on what I need to do for my team. And I think they've been part of the lack of success and I'm not blaming it all on them. The new environment, I think benefits the Leafs. I think it will been part of the lack of success, and I'm not blaming it all on them. A new environment, I think, benefits the Leafs, and I think it'll benefit those two guys. Yeah, I agree. I think collectively we all agree.

And the reason I mention Marner is that could be a different story. What I'm saying is John Tavares has made it very clear he wants to stay, and yesterday he told people that he just had a very positive chat with Barube and tree living and is very optimistic that that he'll be sticking around what do you what do you make of that his his synopsis of that conversation and and why would they even be having that chat two days after they lost game seven like that's how quickly you evaluate or or

what do you make of that yeah and, and again, I can only answer Jeff's question what I would do. And again, I'm not here to critique the players individually. They're really good players. Mitch Marner is a top player in the league, we know that. This is about the team now and it's about finding ways and exploring ways. I said the other day, nothing would be off the table for me right now. You know, Joe Thornton won a Heart Trophy and won a scoring championship and Joe Thornton was a hell of a player. He's a first out Hall of Famer. But at some point in time, you got to look at it and go, this is what our team is about. And are we going to consider things that can change outcomes? And I think Craig Bruby tried, and I don't have any question that he tried.

I think right now back to when you said when did it start, you know, a different environment, a different scenario for these players. I think you could see them have success on a team level in the playoffs certainly but I think the goal for me is looking at it with respect to the team. So if Brad and John feel comfortable you know feeling that this is what's going forward then that's their call. I'm just telling you what I would do. What did you make of Craig Barubey having to,, brought this up and made a great point yesterday, but what did you make of Craig Barube having to yell at his team and tell them to wake up

halfway through a game seven? What does that make of it? It's like, just stop and think about that, right? You're playing game seven. You think about the play, you're excited about playing a game seven. Like he's telling them to wake up. You can't even have a nap in the afternoon because you're so excited about playing a

game seven. The adrenaline is flowing through you and he's trying to tell a team to wake up. Like it's unbelievable. It's hard to fathom. And that's why I say, you know, like I think we're the least have found themselves the last number of years. It has been a direct result of the environment they've been in, the environment that was created with the Shana plan and Kyle Dubas. That's how I feel about it. I think that Kyle Dubas said, I'll bet my career on

it that he thought that it would be all about artistic merit come playoff times Not like that you you cannot have all wide receivers on your offensive line You can't have all DBs on your defensive line You better have different players that can play different roles if you want to have success I'll thought he could do it differently With Craig button So the news today is that the New York Islanders have asked permission to chat with brendan shanahan and mlsc has granted them that permission which would suggest shanahan probably won't be here any

longer uh... if that's the case if it gets to a point where it's just keith pally the president and ceo of mlsc and that's who tree living is directing you know know, or is going to for, you know, direction or to have whatever move he wants to make. OK, in the end, how does that change Tree Living's power, his abilities, and how do you think it could change what the Leafs do moving forward if Shanahan isn't here anymore?

Well, you know, Brendan came in and, you know, given Brendan his props, I mean, he came in a situation where he wanted to change fundamentally some of the culture around the Toronto Maple East. And he was very successful in terms of, you know, making some hard decisions and making some significant changes and acquiring talent and getting the team into a place where they could be as successful as they have been in the regular season. But you know, with what's transpired and now saying, okay, different eyes on the thing, different philosophies, you know, Brad comes in with a different mindset, even though he

was hired by Brendan. And now it gives Brad an opportunity to move forward with his philosophy. It gives Keith Pelley a chance to look at it and collaborate. It's a collaboration. It's not about, I have all the power, I'm going to tell you what I need to do and here you go and do it. It has to be a collaboration. And I think with new eyes and and new relationships it creates an opportunity

to consider things that are necessary you don't have to hang on to to your belief and and there's nothing wrong with with brendan nor or or or anybody to hold on to what they believe in but when it doesn't have success you've got to be starting to think about different approaches and i think this gives that opportunity to try to make least overall

with craig button uh... one thing we discussed a little bit yesterday is the farm system of the Maple Leafs. And there's all this focus on July 1st and if Mitch leaves and John leaves, you've got to find these guys to sign or you're going to have to get active in trades. Ideally, you'd have some kids coming. You know the organization well. You know every organization well. How would you describe the Maple Leafs farm system as of today? Well, when you trade first-round draft picks and you trade prospects, it's not going to be as strong as other organizations. And that's just the reality.

And there's no way you can, you can couch, you can describe it any other way. Easton Cowan to me is going to be a good solid player for the Toronto Maple Leaf. He's shown the capabilities, grown in his game this year. So when you start with that player and you know you have that guy, I think that that's comforting everybody, every organization, they don't have like five really good prospects. Just doesn't exist. They organizations that have been picking high, they might have three, maybe four,

but they don't have five good prospects. So it's not like the Leafs are far behind. I looked at the Toronto Maple Leafs right now and you look at players they have, I think the blue line is set. I think the blue line with Brecht, the living is done with the blue line is really good. I think the goal-tenning is set. So now you can start to focus in on the forward group. And I'm gonna use a comparison, the Minnesota Wild. When Bill Garron made the decision

to buy out Zach Greasy and Ryan Suter, he knew it was gonna come with some real significant implications with respect to the salary cap and what you could spend. Jack Parisi and Ryan Suter, he knew it was going to come with some real significant implications with respect to the salary cap and what you could spend. If you let John Tavares and Mitch Marner go, it's going to come with some implications about, okay, where do you find these goals? Where do you find these? But at the same time, what Billy also found out was he could go and look at other players,

even some of his younger players, and give them opportunities. And now with the cap space, he's gonna be able to really take it to another level in my view. I don't think this is about one year with the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's about, okay, what do we start doing now, and I'm not talking three years,

how do we get ourselves into a position that a year from now we can feel a lot better about our chances going into the playoffs than we do now. And the blue line is good, the goal-tenning is good, Matthews is a good player, Nylander is good, Nyes, you know, it's not like they're decimated. Now you look at where you can add some other players to fortify and strengthen your group. And I think that's the opportunity that exists for the Toronto Maple Leafs. With Craig Buttons, so we got game one tonight, Dallas, Edmonton, this should be a phenomenal series.

Where do you stand on this, Craig? How do you see this one planned out? Well, you know, the Edmonton orders offensively have been really good. They're getting balanced scoring right to the lineup. The Dallas Stars defensively have not been good. Jake Autencher has saved their bacon, literally saved their bacon.

He has been really good. You add to it that they've had a number of players that haven't been able to be productive, haven't been able to produce, and now it sits on, if you stop Ratnan, you stop Grandlin or Hintz, who else is going to score? They need to get a lot more productivity out of players not named Hintz, Ratnan or Granlin and they haven't had that.

And if their defensive play doesn't improve and Edmonton can get to the goaltender, this series could be over in five games. That's what I see right now. I think Dallas has some heavy lifting and some real refinement to be a threat to the Edmonton Oilers because right now, the Edmonton Oilers look like a wagon. Well you talk about the Oilers, Craig, and the guy that's driving the bus is McDavid and something switched in him. I don't know what year it was but it was against the LA Kings where he just realized that he had to take it to another level.

And he started doing it. And he's basically been unstoppable. How concerned, like I'm trying to find a way to phrase this, how concerned would you be if you ran the Maple Leafs and their players they don't seem like they want to, not that they want, but they can get to that level or they have it. I think that the one thing that you just finished with is do they have it? You know, you want all the players to have it. You want to believe that they all have it. But do they all have it?

And again, I'm going to... It's not always yes, as you know, as we all know. We all know. Okay, but so what can you do to bring it out a little bit more? And I'm gonna give you an example, Jeff. And I saw it firsthand. Mike Medano had it.

Was he the lead guy? No. So you look at Mike, you go, so how do we get the best out of Mike? So you try to look at other areas to try to surround him, to try to get some players around him that can enhance it, that can water it, so to speak, so it can sprout. And that's what we did.

And it wasn't about Mike not being a good leader or not being committed or not wanting to be a difference maker, but he needed help. He wasn't going to be that guy that he wasn't a Mark Messier type. And I think you have to recognize it and then enhance it. And I think that that is a real big key. We've seen it with a number of players over the years.

We're just a little bit of a boost. You listen, I listen to Adam Graze and Joe Murphy, Marty Jelena, Adam Graze, and they talked about Mark Messier. They said they were young kids and good leaders, and they just said, being around Mark Messier just allowed them to grow. I think a lot of players, Kevin Lowell,

talks about what Messier meant to other players. I think that if you're the Toronto Maple Leafs, trying to understand what do they have it and to what degree do they have it and what kind of help do they need so that we can maximize whatever they have. This Florida Panther team just continues to dominate. They had a great game one last night. What do you see in Carolina to try and get back into that series? I know it's only one nothing, but they came in third last night in that game.

It didn't look very good for them. What do you make of them? I mean, is it an off night or what do they need to do to try and combat this Florida wagon here? Craig, before you answer, I just wanted to say great answer on the mediano Thank you for that. Yeah, they're very welcome. Yes We don't Carolina plays a relentless style of game We know that they play like with his boundless energy and they try to create chaos

Well, Florida plays with relentless energy. They play with size and physicality and skill. And quite frankly, I don't think Carolina matches up. It's 13 straight Eastern Conference final games they've lost. If Florida keeps playing like this, it'll be 14, 15, and 16. I don't know if Carolina has enough to combat what Florida's doing. Florida's starting to look like they're just gaining steam. It's like the train is out of station. The train might have had a little bit of debris on the tracks. The tracks are clear now and they're running.

Yeah, they are. Yeah, they are. That game could have been in Toronto last night. They were in trouble at one time though. They were down 0-2. Yes, they were. They were in trouble. They were and down 2-0 in that game that game yeah let me ask you this question though go ahead and a Jeff Brian Jamie all three okay so they're so they're down two games to nothing going back to Florida they're down to nothing and three wanting game three I never sensed that Florida was in a state of panic no did you no it never felt that

way no it didn't whatsoever. I mean, that's the truth. They never even, yeah, I mean, look at the way they played in game six, like they, like the Leafs played really, really well to go down there. They beat them on home ice and then day of game seven, Matthew Kachuk is like, we're preparing for game seven the whole year, we're ready for it.

This is what we're built for. We're just gonna go show it tonight. I'll tell you one thing. Never sounded nervous. When you're up 3-1 in a game where you're up to nothing in the series you can sure as hell put it on a team to make them panic I'll tell you that and it just didn't materialize that way but hey and Jeff I 100% agree with you it's about squeezing the tourniquet tightening the screws right mm-hmm yeah Ronald doesn't have that ability they don't

have the ability that's true that's where you need that because there's so much focus on so many different things depth and defense and goal scoring and all that and maybe it was a depth guy that needed to make it 4-1 or maybe it had to be Matthews maybe he had to say guys we're winning this game 5-1 tonight follow me here we go and it didn't happen that way and uh... the rest is history by craig that enjoy game one tonight down in dallas will do it again soon thank you for that yeah i think you guys have a great day various craig button joining us in the maple toriana hotline drive the built in canada fuel-efficient fun to drive

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