OverDrive - Corrado on the Shanahan era ending, the conclusion of his tenure and the foundation he built

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

TSN Hockey Analyst Frank Corrado joined OverDrive to discuss Brendan Shanahan's departure from the Maple Leafs, the conclusion of his era on the team, the aspects of what he built for the roster, the biggest impact on the players, the Core Four's foundation, the future in Toronto and more.

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Call 416-457 plan or visit askkelvin.ca Here he is our main man, our TSN hockey analyst. Frankie, go ahead and answer that for us. The J sweep in the pods or Canada losing to Denmark? Canada losing to Denmark. Okay. Come on. Okay, all right. All right.

Yeah, man, that's crazy stuff. Crazy stuff. But I don't know. Like, there's, you know, Latvia be Canada at the World Juniors I think it's not like this stuff is it can happen It's just these one game things you never know you get into a certain situation the game Becomes tight and it's like, you know, it comes down to one mistake one goal and there you go That's what happens crazy man

Because there was so much buildup and this is when the tourney really starts for Canada Whether it's at the world's the Olympics the Juniors, once you get to the quarterfinal. The group stage is fun, but you know they're going to win, you know they're getting through. They're likely going to have a very good matchup. But yeah, Canada out of the Worlds losing in the quarters to Denmark. The big news of the day, obviously, Brendan Shanahan is not here. You played for the Leafs when he was the king of the day obviously Brendan Shanahan is not here you played for the Leafs when he was you know the king of the county what is your reaction to the Leafs deciding to move off

Shanahan? I mean it's been a long time so and they haven't won so you can kind of see where the road was going to go here but I will say this like I was I was in that organization year one of Babcock and there was a lot of you know turmoil rocky years prior to that previous to that Like say what you want about the way things went with the core for he turned that organization into a very stable Operation for a long time and it had been nothing close to that You know whether whether it was you know Lou or Babs, you know, Loo or Babs, you know, for whatever faults those guys had, it became a safe environment for players to play in and succeed on an individual level. Did they win? No. They made the playoffs a lot though. And their young players got better and turned into,

you know, superstars around the league. Like it's, there was a lot of things that went well. Yes, the ultimate goal didn't happen. They didn't deviate from the plan, but they weren't going to deviate from the plan because that was one thing Shanahan made very clear from the moment he got there. I am sticking to a plan and for better or worse, that's what he did. I think he should be remembered more for bringing stability back to the Maple Leafs organization more than anything else. Yeah, I would agree with that. I'm not sure everyone will see it that way because again, if you're the man at the top,

you're expected to win. People are starving for it, but I do think that there's a lot of validity to that, that there was consistency. But he also made this team run differently and he took a lot of his p's and q's from Lou Lamarello you know it was his decision to not let Joe Bowen and Jim Ralph on the plane anymore and media not on the plane anymore and You know not doing this and not doing that, you know, you know all this kind of stuff where It was like this iron cloud and you you referenced it from a player's view like protecting the players and and that's what Shanahan I'm sure his explanation would be I'm doing this all for the players. I'm curious if you think it will change

With Shanahan out. Do you think it should change? Do you think this team needs to open up more? Do they need to be available more does you know Shanahan again? No, he didn't hit on interviews in years because the president of the club. He never heard from the guy now you didn't have that interviews in years as the president of the club you never heard from the guy uh... you know what he's to a certain degree yes but not to the point where it was prior to to shanahan coming in where it felt like you know it was open season at times on on certain guys like it shouldn't

necessarily be open season on on matthews in the land issue be fair issue be critical when it has to be like that. No one's going to dispute that. But I think, you know, like I had a few experiences where, you know, I think there was one article I did with Alter where it kind of it kind of blew up or I said something like the coach, you know, if the coach doesn't like you, you don't play like and but those kinds of things were just so few and far between around the organization. They did do a good job of making sure that it is a little bit of a dome for the players.

Now the other elements that you brought up there, like your local media guys that call the game, they're not asking those questions. You know what I mean? So like you can be a little more lenient in that regard but it's you know Toronto there's a there's a lot of volume of media members and outlets and everything's based here right so I think there there does need to be that that element of okay we're going to protect these guys but at the same time it doesn't have to be as ironclad you know like there's there's certain members that it's just like, they're not asking the hard questions. They're not out there to, you know, to shine a negative light on anyone.

Frankie, Hayes was bringing out the contracts negotiations in his most hated things about the Shanahan era. It wasn't listed as hated. It was lowlights. Lowlights. I brought up the idea of, you know, there was an era or a time in the game where good players didn't want to play in Toronto. Is somebody, am I hearing something or?

Is there a flush going on there, Frankie? What are you up to? Is there like a jetliner flying by you or what? No, they're practicing how to shovel the ice right now. Oh my god. I'm sure this is going to be on Hayes' list of things that he absolutely hates. Oh, that'll be banned.

Nobody allowed on when they're in a rink. How do you need to practice that? Like, go up and down twice. That's a better question. Shoveling up and down the ice at fire block shark. Down and back twice and you're done. Try to line up so you're all getting a different piece and let's move on. Anyway, to my question, there was a time where good players, Canadian markets, all that talk, do you think the contract negotiations or the idea of just the players leaving that, I don't know, Chani Dubis, the organization

just couldn't stomach any of them leaving because they finally acquired some top end talent and they had the ability to lock them up? Or what is your take on the contract negotiations of how the great, or the top end players for the least have been handled the last bunch of years you know what it's the fear of the unknown like what happens if you don't retain your really talented players and they go somewhere else and they have success because there was a track record of that happening here Phil Kessel moved on you had to trade Kessel he won two cups Tyler Bozak moved on he won a cup Nazem Kadri moved on. He won a cup. There's

been a track record of this happening and you have supremely talented players and a lot of people would tell you, I'll always bet on the talent. I'll bet on those guys being able to find a way to break through because they can do it. And then the unknown is like, well, if you move on for those guys and you've built this stable operation that's good year after year and making the playoffs, what happens if it fails? How do you answer that question at the end of the year when another guy moves on and wins a Stanley Cup,

like if that was Marner or Nylander or whoever. So yeah, I think that fear of the unknown had to play a huge part in it. And the other part is like those guys, they were willing to bet on those talented players finding a way to break through. But let's also, you know, we also have to say that the organization was very willing to, you know,

kind of hedge their bets by signing these guys and saying, we're gonna be progressive, we're gonna be proactive, the cap's gonna go up. Well, it didn't go up for four years, you know, and everyone had to deal with that, but I think with the way that front office was thinking at the time, they were trying to be ahead of the curve.

And unfortunately, the curve kind of bit them back in a way that they couldn't really maneuver anymore. So they were stuck with what they had, but it always, for me, comes down to, well, what happens if these guys move on and they succeed and we don't? How do we answer that question? Frankie, I think one of the key moments in Shanahan's tenure here came four years ago when they blew the 3-1 series lead to the Canadians and

Shanahan came out and said we lack killer instinct. He brought that phrase into the vernacular leaf land and he insisted at that time that they could acquire killer instinct, they could develop killer instinct internally and maybe externally too. Maybe they could bring in some guys with a little more killer instinct but he made the human nature bet that you could change these guys, make them something they had not been and to this day I think we all have

seen what we've seen when it comes to that category. How do you feel about that as somebody who's been in a room? Can you, was that crazy of him to believe he could change these guys into killers? It's not crazy to believe that because you don't know until you do it. Like you're not a killer until you are. You're not a winner until you're a winner. Like, you know, there is an evolution there where guys have to find a way to become something that they haven't necessarily been. But you almost look back over the years and you say, well, why didn't you surround them with guys that have killer instinct? Why didn't you surround them with guys that have won? Like,

you know, you try and make moves over the years because you have this young nucleus of players, you know, maybe the priority should have been we need to bring in guys that that have been branded and labeled champions. That was crazy, one of those guys Frankie was Patrick Marlowe of all guys. The main guy, the first guy. He was one of the ones that wanted to just follow that guy and what he does I was like you follow that guy. You know what he does. I was like you gotta be That's that's a great example. That's a San Jose Sharks team That was the you know decade ago version of what this team is but not even because those guys they went to a cup final And they were going fairly deep into playoffs and these guys didn't do that and that's not to you know

Disperse Patrick Marlowe in the career he had but no but the kicker was you had to give him The third year because he insisted on it and then it just all went to hell and then we know that what happened after that Well, and you know what else I think was happening with that Oh, I think older guys around the league who hadn't won Saw how skilled these guys are and saw the operation that the Leafs were running and said, I might be able to attach myself to that and win because these guys are really good. And you know, McDavid and Dryside will get that right now. But with the way things have gone the last little while, I can't honestly say that veteran

guys who haven't won would look at this group and say, I'm going to attach myself potentially to a championship there. Like there's there's way too much runway now where that conversation has changed, whereas five, six, seven years ago, it was so optimistic because these guys were so talented and so good in the regular season. It's not that right now. Yeah, that's a good point. Now Max Patcheretti notwithstanding, I guess, he on and and he was hoping to help them win but

you're right five six seven eight years ago was like i gotta get in there i gotta get in there and i could be the guy that's riding shotgun with these guys uh... but that is the truth i mean the marlo deal uh... that one could have come up on the lowlights you know that they had to trade they had to get rid of the contract that picture in the south jarvis carolina to set up will take marlowe's one-year deal because you don't know how

to negotiate with anybody and they absolutely sure themselves the maple eason marlo had a really good first year when he was here good really good player good probe all accounts good guy but yet not a winner only loved them to write their at the house all the always long that's the whole the marlo family marlo what you know we took them on the internet in you can do that history lesson haze right and say like this move was wrong

that move was wrong having been in the organization at that time it felt like there was like a a little bit of an older on some of the guys who had been under the previous administration where it was almost like we just have to turn a corner and move these guys out and bring in other guys that are fresh and new where it's like you almost didn't have to label them that way. You just had to evaluate what actually are there like Tyler Bozak moved on to St. Louis. They loved them there and he won a Stanley Cup and he was slaughtered perfectly.

You know, say what you want about fail. won a Stanley Cup and he was slotted perfectly. Say what you want about Phil. I get it, it was probably time to move on. Nazem Kadri would talk about it all the time, but maybe you just had to have an individual conversation on the guys that you're dealing with and not just kind of say, yeah, they were left over from before.

We gotta move on from some of these guys. And the biggest one for me, and I know like, Dion probably, like wanted to go try and win somewhere. But I think it would have been so important for Matthews and Marner and Nylander to spend a year playing with Dion Fennel. I think that would have done them wonders. He is so good at like, mentoring young players and relating to them and kind of, you know, just just teaching them how to be good pros. But the timing didn't work out like it was time to go try and win somewhere. This market like I don't know. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I

know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. was his time was up too. Yeah let's not forget the salute gate, salute gate

happened right as Shani arrived. Yeah that was probably why a lot of that odor that you referenced kind of was hanging around but yeah I mean he would want a mulligan on that. Yep I think so and I think like honestly the even look at like the Tavares signing like we don't have to go through all of this chronological order, but John represented what these other guys represented. Talent wanted to be here. Never won. But he never won.

He wasn't coming here because it was like, man, this guy was a winner. It was, well, talented scores and loves Toronto. That know and and that's kind of the that's what rings out You know throughout the years like an eye for talent tons of talent Tons of talent eye for wanting to be here and wearing the jersey and selling jerseys and making the playoffs all that kind of stuff Check check check check check and right now It's like their only option to have that Brendan Shanahan, Matthew Kachuk transaction is by guys leaving. Yeah. And you're gonna figure out, yeah.

You're not trading William Nylander for a Matthew Kachuk type player. That's not happening. You're doing that by process of elimination. It's probably not available to you. The thing about the Tavares thing, because like I agree, did you need Tavara's at the time?

No, it was a luxury that you wanted to add and it was an expensive luxury, but you just missed on Stamco's and now you have the biggest UFA. Like is Tavara's the biggest UFA in the last 20 years? It honestly might be considering the way that whole thing went down and you had the biggest UFA for two decades and he wanted to come to your team and you were gonna shut the door and say actually no thanks after you know years where local guys weren't coming and I like I remember being a fan of this team as a as a younger kid thinking it's all American guys coming here like you know that the Burke years all that stuff

whatever fans were saying and now you got you know this guy who like bleeds blue who wants to come home and you're not going to do it after you just missed on Stamcoast. So I think they almost, I don't know, felt like they may have had to at that point. How do you not do that? Yeah, I get that. In hindsight, it's 2020, let's not forget who the coach was still at that time too, it was Babcock and he was pressing, right? He was pressing, he was impatient.

He had done his pain coming for the first year. And then it was like, all right, let's move here. And they were riding a high at that point. Wanted Babcock, got Babcock. Wanted Tavares, wow, we'll just take him. We got him too. Like at that point, it was like, everything's breaking away. We want to win the lottery, we won the lottery. Like the first three or four years, everything wentanahan's way but everything everything you want any dot and it was like while this is incredible what where's this bit house how is this possibly not going to lead significant amounts of success if not a dynasty

and yet here we are you know five six years beyond that point where the position or in right now it's it's funny, Hayes, because the local guy thing I find interesting, right? Like let's say that is true. You know, Tabar is as a local guy, he wants to come home. You have to have them, but you didn't have to have Zach Hyman and then you didn't have to have Connor Brown. And you know what I mean? You go down the list. You're like, well, why, why did we all of a sudden like veer off this thing when it was a priority two, three

years before that? Why not just stick with it? Well, exactly. And Nausam's from London, but GTA. But again, Bile accounts, Patrangelo maybe wanted to come. I don't know. There was a couple of years span where with all these guys, they knew all their deals were up and literally all of them went overboard.

Like Janssen overboard, Kapanen overboard, Hyman overboard, Connor Brown overboard. It was like that was the cost of keeping these young guys because literally all of them, it was like all their in-house depth players, like their so-called deadline acquisition type guys, they all went overboard because of the money that... That was the thing. It was like like we're gonna get ahead of it we're gonna tack on an extra year so maybe we could know our cost certainty in the caps going up and then it didn't and you were stuck with these guys and it's like we got to get ready on send got to get rid of capping in and you

know Zach Hyman we couldn't find a little extra for like I don't know that's that's where they got caught gets back to my low Let my low light in the contracts which again I I get hindsight 2020 and the player has the right to negotiate and all that kind of stuff But if you if you stood strong and locked in Matthews Marner knee lander if you got them on eight-year deals even at the money they were making Matthews would have two more years at 11.6. Mitch would have three more left at 10.9.

Willie would have another year at 6.9. If they just held, instead of saying, fine, you can have five, you can have six, if they just as restricted free agents said, no, McDavid just just signed for eight he's mcdavid you're not you you're signing for eight years this is the way it goes matthews would have two more years left at that money you can't that's the that was the issue you know get now it's the players in the fact that they don't have the dna in the fact is you probably have to move off them anyway that's the scary thing is this could

have still somehow worked if they could have played better and been clutch and all that other stuff yeah well that's that's an alternate reality as well that if they if they've shown for game seven guess what we're in the building for game two tonight and Shanahan's still in it if you're gonna if you're gonna peel back the layers of all of it too you probably go back to the Willie negotiation and say like he took it all the way to December 1st and Not a lot of people I don't think would be willing to do that around the league like how much did that? Play into things and it's like well if these guys just saw Willie do it

Are they gonna do it now and do we want to deal with that or do we'll just kind of? You know, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it and we're not going to force them to take the eight year deals. I don't know. Maybe they looked at that and said, like these guys mean business and we really, really are depending on these four guys.

And if we don't have them, and remember how bad Willie was when he came back that year. Like he couldn't get up and running. And then if your team is serious about winning right now, you can't afford to have a Marner year like that. Couldn't afford to have a Matthews year like that. So you swallow it and say, okay, whatever you guys need, just help us win. And guess what? They didn't do it. Like they didn't hold up their end of

the bargain and the team was very, very friendly to them. That's very true. And at the end, Shanahan did it for a reason because he believed in the guys and they didn't repay They took everything they could and then they got to the game seven on Sunday night and said not not gonna happen Not doing it. Yeah, and it must have just been infuriating for him to watch that Alright, Frankie. What's going on over there? They still were they working on now? Tell me they're still out there running their routes. Are they running routes with shovels or? No, I don't think they're running the routes right now.

I think they're done. It's a great rink. We're in Rimouski. Rimouski? Oh no, they are. Here we go, here we go. Wow. Man, that's a great crew.

Look at that. They're prepped. How much practice do you need? It feels like the Slapshot scene when they're watching the figure skaters. It's like, what are you doing out there? Look at this. They're running routes like it's a football practice. I love it. That ice is going to be so perfect. So pristine.

There's a dude with a beard out there. Yell, move your ass out there and pick it up. Is there that guy out there? Here's something for you. No, but where's Gardner McDougal's mustache rank in the history of hockey mustaches? It should be in the Hall of Fame. It's a pretty good one. It's a beauty. It could be Mount Rushmore. It should be. It's Lanny, it's Dave Babich, you know, Gardner McDougal, like he's got to be up there. Yup. F**king mustaches. Dennis Maruk. Yeah. Alright Frankie, enjoy yourself. Beautiful Ramoski Kvabak, say hi to everyone for us. Alright, have a

good one. There he is, Trevian. There's Frankie Carrato. celebrating 30 years of discovering the artists you love today. iHeart New Music. Discover new music. Stream now, online, on your smart speaker and on the free iHeart Radio app.