OverDrive - Dreger and LeBrun on Canada's roster forming, the defense construction and the Maple Leafs seeking positives

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

TSN Hockey Insiders Darren Dreger and Pierre LeBrun joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around Canada's Olympic team and the foundation of the roster, the players looking to make the team, the defense and goaltending choices, the Maple Leafs' identity and more.

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Restriction supply ships registered in Panama and Malta. Darren Dregger, a TSN Hockey Insider. We'll get to appear in a moment, I'm sure. I don't want any part of this conversation. No? It's just, you don't want to control? Well, look, I mean, I was asked by a former executive TSN years ago to do something about the touch of gray.

I refuse. There is. Flatto refuse that I'm not doing that. Good for you. What was you talking about? Hey, that's not a forehead there, buddy. That's a five head. Richard, you're on the set tonight.

Someone brought up your gray hair and said, maybe touch it up a little. Yeah. Can you clean that up for something? Probably 10 years ago pushing it, but it was a legit request. It wasn't a command. It wasn't do it or else,

but it was, hey, we need to have a discussion about that situation. You know how dangerous that is, though? Because if you go with the wrong tint, then it looks horrendous. Furthermore, once you commit to that, drags, you can never turn back around.

Like Bob Parker. Yeah, exactly. Or Gino. Exactly. Whoever it is, we don't need examples. Gino went oh natural now, and he looks like, 10 million bucks. Yes, but you're right. If you look a while, if you go overnight, you go attention to.

I'm so mad at you that you're thinking it. No, I never was ever thinking that. No, if you over-diet, though, it can go blue, it can turn purple. stops taking the color. That's what I've been told. And then it's still your fault, right? The same executive will say, well, why'd you do that? Well, the worst is, I know some NHL coaches, and I'm not going to name names.

They dye their hair jet black. And they're going to get a Giuliani situation going on one day. I say they are where they're going to start sweating and they're melting and it's going to come down the side of their forehead and it's going to happen. There's a story in the NBA, and this is where I'm always reluctant to bring these up because I swear it's a parody. It's Jalen Brown. Jalen Brown and the Celtics has been like getting defended

and he'll like turn and rub his head on someone's jersey and there was a streak of hair. Come on. Yes. But the paint. The paint. It's not real hair. I saw the tweet.

Somebody was like, you've gotten five people now in the NBA. Yes. Side swipes and marking off. He's taking people out with his fake hair. He's marking up their jerseys with his hair. Yes. It's like patron paint at the race.

That's right. And LeBron, I think. was famous for that too. But anyway, all right, Dregs. I'm done? We're just getting started, man. Thanks for your contribution. We're just getting started.

Well, we had Conner Badard on about a half an hour ago. It was great to catch up with him. And they've been a great story. And we didn't reference the MJ, Craig Button, Olympic team projection, because Connor Bedard is not on their projected team.

We don't know that yet. No, we do know that Craig and MJ do not have him on their updated list that was just revealed. It's a mock team. That's been an hour ago? Yes, it's out there. But like Doug Armstrong and the whole crew, they were in town for the Hall of Fame. And they're down to, I think it was Pierre saying like 35 or 40 players. That's still a lot of players.

It is. Yeah. Like that's. But dude, you know the deal. 35 or 40 players. There's some players there that basically are not going to. So what's the point? Like what's the point of having 35 or 40 still?

I mean, just guys that have played their way into the conversation. And prior to the start of the year, we even talked about Connor Bedard being in the mix? Probably not, right? Mack and Celebrini, maybe, but a bit of a long shot. But now, Celebrini, to me, looks like he's probably a lock. I think he should be the way he's played. Yeah, for Team Canada.

I mean, we know that predominantly it's going to be the Four Nations roster, but, you know, there are some interpretations that have to be looked at and scenarios that can't be overlooked based on the way guys are playing now. So I think that's why you keep the extended list. And, you know, if you have an injury in the regular season on the National Hockey League, it's quick to adjust. My thing is the goaltending. Like, they didn't even invite anybody else, right, to the summer camp.

It was the same three guys that were there. And, like, for me, I don't, Montembo, Dobish is the starter, basically in Montreal. How does Montembow make the team? Yeah. How do you put him on the team based on merit? And is Benner still, like, what people say, like the lock starting goaltender for the team? I wouldn't call him a starter yet. I think that's debatable.

Because he hasn't played well. No, he's been terrible. I'd have him as a lock as a tandem. I think it's Logan Thompson and Jordan Bennington. Yeah. And maybe that's a little spicy if you look back to the Vegas situation with Aden Hill, who's in, he's hurt. So is he allowed to be in the conversation right now in November?

He is. You've got Darcy Kemper, but Sam Montemam, based on the way he played last year, not the start of this season is why he's in the mix. Canadian goaltending, frankly, is not that good. No, it hasn't been. Now, it was good enough because Bennington stood on his head. Yeah. So Thompson's been good this year.

Yeah, he's been really good. He's been really good. You know, Dregs, other than the young guys, Connor and Celebrini, which player do you think has pushed enough to get into that lineup that wasn't in it last year? Yeah, for me, it would be Nick Suzuki of the Montreal Canadiens. And this one is a bit of a spicy one. He's earned his way just based on the merits of his game. And you can envision, you know, what he can do when he's,

not, you know, generating offense. He's a well-rounded player and he's very versatile so he can play in different situations. But he has turned down Team Canada a number of occasions. We're talking about world championships. It kind of matters when the hierarchy of

Team Canada, the brass, the makeup of Team Canada is looking at that and they want to see these guys internationally play. But he's played his way into a position in my mind where he's got to be there. And I put Mark Sheifley close but maybe not quite on the same level of Suzuki at this stage.

How much say, like there's the management team, Coop, like Coop's got, that's a big say. A lot of say. A lot of say. He's the guy that's got to put them on the ice in situations that are critical, and he in the decision-making process has got to be big time. Absolutely. And, you know, Brandon Hagel, to me, again, he's a good player.

I would have no issue. And many of them as a lock on the Olympic team. Many do. Anthony Sorrelli, is he a lock? not according to MJ and Biden but it doesn't feel like he should be but again when you look at the

influence of John Cooper and everything that those two players specifically have done in helping him win championships you know part of the four nations face off when it comes down to those final decisions both on forward and defense I think that John Cooper

has a trump card I do and we shouldn't be surprised by that all right let's bring in Pierre LeBron into this conversation Pierre you've been reporting a lot on you know, Team Canada and the discussions they've been having, how would you answer that question in terms of John Cooper's, I don't know, if he's got a veto card, if he's got the Trump card, how you would want to describe that, but how much say will Cooper have in the end results

of what this roster might look like? No, we can't hear Pierre. In Canadian hockey history, in putting together best on best team. There's no question about that. That's been laid out pretty simply clear to me. And that's the way Doug Armstrong wants it. I mean, John Cooper has to coach his team.

Might as well like it. So he does have a big say. There was a coach in the Team Canada meeting yesterday here in Toronto. Team Canada met for nine hours from 7 a.m. to 4 p.m. Pete DeBoer was in the room yesterday. Of course, he's not coaching in the NHL this year, but he remains an assistant coach. He coaches the D for the Olympic team. He was there and all the GMs that are part of Team Canada.

And as I reported, Steve Eisenhower, was invited into the room yesterday, guys. Of course, the GM of Team Canada for 2010 and 2014, and Doug Armstrong asked Isamon to come in so that the GMs in the Team Canada room could ask him questions about the process in 2010 and 2014, and particular at this delicate juncture, right? You guys have been talking about it,

all the bubble guys and the decisions. I mean, in those nine hours yesterday, they cut their list from 90 plus. They had 90 plus names on it in September. to between 30 and 40, 35 and 40 now, heading into the final six weeks. So a pretty big meeting yesterday. Pierre, in your opinion, how much of an appetite does Hockey Canada have for this tournament to stay as close to what happened in the Four Nations or the roster at Four Nations as possible?

Do you think that that's a big thing for them or they're very open to just saying who's ever playing the best right now? Just what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I think that's, your raise a really important point, oh, because I think people, when they go through their exercise right now, I'm not criticizing anyone's mock team candidate. It's a lot of fun to do and there's no right or wrong. These guys aren't starting with a blank whiteboard, right? They're actually starting with the Four Nations roster and then saying, well, which guys are we actually willing to take off and which guys are coming on? So that's a different process than Four Nations when they really did start at zero.

so the Four Nations matters in many cases that's the tiebreaker if they're really close between a player they had at Four Nations where they want and a guy they're trying to bring on

well you know who's going to win the tiebreaker so you know Team USA feels the same way by the way if not even more so Bill Guerin has been up front about that he loved this Four Nations team

so you know there may not be quite as much turnover as people would like to see in terms of media and fans but there will be turnover for sure and I think for Canada you guys and drags touch on it, you know, from talking to the people around Team Canada, there's no question that

Suzuki, Celebrini, Schifle, and Tom Wilson, as I wrote with Chris Johnson, the athletic yesterday. Those are the four forwards that have probably raised their stock the most since the Four Nations last year. Honestly, on Tom Wilson, I think they would have liked the Mulligan there last year at Four Nations. I think they wish they had taken them. Yeah. Pierre, let me just follow up on that quickly. That seems like a reaction just after what happened with all the fights. If the fights didn't happen, would we be even having this conversation? I think so. It's got, you know what? I mean, I know that's the same thing I thought, oh, but it's got nothing to do with the three fights in nine seconds. There won't be any fights in

Milan. I do understand that. And I, by the way, let me just say this. I love Tom Wilson. Yeah. No, listen, he leads them in scoring, but he also, in terms of your bottom six on Team Canada. I think the Team Canada management see a bit of a unicorn, a guy whose physicality brings that different dimension. And so you know, he's not a lock. I'm just saying he's very much in that bubble

conversation, you know, so it's very interesting. And listen, we spent a lot of time over the last week, Celebrini, Bedard. Bedard has improved his stock tremendously this year. I mean, Doug Armstrong said to me before the season, Connor Bedard and Macklin Celebrini

have to pop, quote, unquote, quote, have to pop to get more serious into our conversation. Well, they have. They have. They both popped. And as I, you know, I interviewed Doug Armstrong yesterday after the meeting. And he goes, yeah, they both pop. So now we're, they're debating those guys all the time.

I don't know that they could take both. I think the inexperience, you know, is unfortunately a drawback for each guy. But I definitely see at least one of them making it. And right now my money would be on Celebrini. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, this feels somewhat consistent with what we do with the world juniors every year, Dregs. Can't bring that guy's too much skill, can't play on the fourth line. Can't bring that guy, he's 17, it's a 19-year-old.

Can't trust that guy. Exactly. And you're like, well, if Bedard's Celebrini, Matthew Schaefer, if they're just better, then why wouldn't it be? Like, this Schaefer kid is phenomenal. You know what we said at the end of the old junior's playing. Man, it would have been great to have a guy to score a goal in a big moment, because they had all these philosophies

and all these ideas about we're going to have a team to beat the USA and this player for that. They couldn't score a damn goal. That's the risk that they're playing. They go over there and they bring a bunch of guys who are all very good, they're all great players. They're all very good players.

But if they don't get the offense or if it turns into a shootout and they can't keep up, which I don't envision being the case, but there's always going to be second-guessing. That's what they've got to be thinking. Yeah, and that's why I'm curious. and Eisenman would never tell you what he said to that group in the meetings. Maybe some inside that room would convey what his message was.

But again, I remind you back in 2010, Eisenman and Mike Babcock wanted to win one goal hockey games. They didn't care whether it was a 2-1 game or a 3-2 game. They were happy to play that way, and they picked their roster accordingly. Or Omnly's centers up front, right? It's about how you match up, not against Team USA, but some of the other powerhouses as well. but I think it's neglect if you're not looking at the best players in November, December,

and right until that final line where you've got to declare you're going to be lost. I totally agree, man. I totally agree. Who's ready to pop? And you mentioned Pete DeBore a moment ago. Like, is he the guy that, Treggs, you would suggest if someone's going to make a coaching change? I don't see who that would be in the league right now. But is DeBore at the top of the list? Like, is the board the card that every GM in the league can possibly play?

right now and how much of an output tight does he have to get back in the game? Well, it's so tight across the league right now, right? It is and I don't get the sense that anybody's contemplating that. And I also think and believe that Pete DeBore is deeply invested in the preparation work that's going

into Team Canada. He is. Now, if the right opportunity, at the right owner-manager called, and there was an opportunity for him to dive into a situation back in the National Hockey League where he feels he could win with his team, if not this year or the next year, of course, he's going to listen to that.

So he'll take calls, but I think he'd heavily scrutinize what that opportunity looked like just again on respect to his role and what he wants to do with Team Canada. That's a pretty good coach. Yeah, pretty good coach. Go strutty. Go ahead. Frankly, I'm not surprised we haven't talked about the most important part of the team with this group of all stars here, but the D-Men.

So when I look at the back end, Pierre, is there any way that Harley isn't in the starting six here, the way he played with so little preparation? I thought he was unbelievable, considering wherever he was, Mexico or the D.R. stunning his buns. Yeah. My sense of it right now is he's a lock. Yeah. To play?

They've got him penciled in. And in fact, yes. Yes. I agree. In fact, if you remember, they actually ended up, you know, because of the injury to Shea Theodore and the illness to kill McCar for one game. They ended up using AD at Four Nations. AD is what they're bringing to.

to Glenn. That position, the D position to me, has a chance to see the least amount of turnover of all three positions. I mean, the goaltending is a, is completely wide open.

Logan Thompson has played the best and I think he's on right now and Jordan Bington's a lot because of the body of work. They just hope that he gets through, you know, his early season struggles here. But the D, they like all their D they had of Four Nations.

That doesn't mean they're bringing back the exact, I'm not saying that, but going back to what we said about, you're not starting with a blank board here. You're starting with Four Nations and saying, who do we take off? They liked a lot of their D from Four Nations. So, you know, that's the question here.

Now, Evan Bouchard, since you're asking Struddy, the Evan Bouchard debate internally, what I'm told is, you know, it's what you think it would be. It's what you guys have talked about on this show. You know, well, there wasn't one. Yeah, he was one. One of the 35 guys that got left on the editing board. Is that what you're saying, or the editing floor?

Go ahead. Yeah, I mean, but the reason, I think if he makes the team, I'm not saying he will, but if they bring him, it's insurance for Kyle McCar on the fireplay. It's, you know, probably not playing if he goes to Milan, but if something, and listen, McCar missed a game at Fort Nation, so it's not like it's completely unrealistic to think about these things and to plan ahead. Now, I don't know if they'll take Evan Bouchard, but if they do, it's absolutely because what, if something happens to Gil McCarrey,

you need someone else to quarterback your power plate at the Olympics. Pierre LeBron, Darren Dreger, so this week I have felt the shift here at Dregs with the Leafs and what they need to possibly acquire to bolster this team because we have been obsessed with a top six forward. Who can play on the right side with Matthews? That ship has sailed in this town, as you guys know. Now it's this six-pack of defensemen. Now, maybe you can tell me that the Leafs don't see it that way.

But they made a bold decision to bring back the exact same defense score, something you do not see often in this league. And let me just throw this in, something that shouldn't have surprised anyone the way they played in the playoffs. Right. And their veteran team, they're all under contracts. Their contracts are all pretty reasonable, too. It's not like anyone's killing them in terms of the cap numbers.

But is that, for my money, that's what they have to address here. Like, where do you see the Leafs going with that? Well, if it doesn't improve, then they might be forced into a scenario where, yeah, they have to address that. But the reality is they need that group to play better. They need basically everyone in Toronto Maple Leafs uniform to play better. I think we forget how close the Maple Leafs came to beating the Florida Panthers in game seven. And if they win that series and advance, are we even having this conversation? We're probably having it because they haven't played well.

But you look at the group that you have, you go, okay, well, they just have to, find a way to play better. And then you look at what they had to give up for Brandon Carlo as an example. Fraser Minton in the first round draft pick, Scotty Lawton for Grimkin and a first round draft pick. They paid a premium because they thought they were a top Stanley Cup

contender. They don't have the assets to go out and swing for the fans. Who are you taking off of your roster? Because if you're looking for a top poor defenseman, if there's one available, guess who they're asking for? Matthew Nyes. I mean, legitimately, right?

You know, Ben Danford is, you know, you throw him in the mix, Easton, a first in 28? I mean, they don't have a cupboard full, so I. Those two guys, you just mentioned, might not even do it, Darren. No, probably not, probably not. Well, that's, yeah, that's what's kind of scary. Pierre, go ahead. Like, where do you stand on the Leafs and their struggles and how desperate maybe they have to be? Yeah, I mean, I tell you what I sense.

And I think Dregs and O touched on this on the panel in the Hall of End Game Sunday night, but Craig Baroube has been so patient since the day got here last year, kind of remarkably, really. And that is almost out of patience right now. I mean, I think what's going on here is a realization by him, and this is just my read on it. It's not what anything the Leafs have told me, but I think he realizes that his intentions,

his hope of to some degree changing, the DNA of this team and of playing a certain way that he believes the teams have to play to succeed in the playoffs, I think there's a realization that the task is a lot taller than he thought it was when he got here. And that's troubling. I mean, that's not a task here, though. Let me interrupt you. It's not a task because they just don't want to play that way. It's a will. You're right. You can't ask these guys to play some hard grinding style when that's just not the way they play. They just, how many, they had Mike Babcock here for a bunch of years,

and they just basically told him, we're not doing that. And that's one of the best coaches to ever coach in the game. They're just, they're not wired for it. So there's enough. My point is, yeah, but my point, oh, is that, like, Hayes is asking, and it's a great question. I mean, do they need to bolster the D? These things are all secondary to me,

if you're still asking the question, how does this team want to play? Yeah. Like, that's a problem. Yeah. yeah you know for a veteran team that kind of over overtakes everything where does that start then like where do you start if you're the coach and the team doesn't want to god I'm glad I don't have that job

to migrate towards the way that they have to play to win like that's that'd be pretty concerning if I was the coach of the GM at this time yeah and you can't change the roster right I mean we talk about adding sure they'd like to add a top six forward but I mean have a look at the core pieces that you could envision down the road not too far down the road actually moving. And I'm talking one of the big dogs here, again, right? Who's waving there, no trade, there, no move, any of that in season?

You went through that last year with Mitch Marner, right through the trade deadline, and how did that play out? So there's all kinds of challenges in this for Brad Turlewin. Yeah, there is, man. That's why tonight, it just, it feels like such a massive game. It does have that feel. It's a huge game. Yeah.

And it's November. All right, boys. Well, we'll see what comes of it. And as always, we appreciate you doing this. Thanks, guys. Where they are, Pierre LeBron. And Darren Dregor, are TSN Hockey Insiders. I'm Luke Wilson.

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