OverDrive - Dreger and LeBrun on Nylander on the third line, Fowler's NHL debut and the goaltending landscape

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the NHL, William Nylander's demotion to the third line, Jacob Fowler making his NHL debut, the goaltending landscape and more.

Every year it's the same. I get socks. You get socks. We all get socks. Not me. This year, I got more. More socks? More for less. Virgin Plus hooked me up with an affordable phone plan and member benefits on food, fashion, and entertainment. So while I'm knee-deep in snow and novelty socks, you're unwrapping deals all season?

Exactly. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Get more for less this holiday season with affordable phone plans and member benefits you'll love. Virgin Plus, obviously. Visit a Virgin Plus store or virginplus.ca for details. Dreggs is in the studio today. Yeah, I probably got... Starting the show.

Yeah. I've been doing this show with this guy for 10 years. He started the show with... Welcome back, Overdry. Like, we're continuing, and I was like, we're just starting. Yeah. He thought we came out of commercial break. I completely froze.

Stuff happens. That's the end of the record. I had the Ripkin record. Every show for 10 years, I have started the exact same way. Yeah. And today I came in. I'm like, Overdrive continues, and then at dawned me, I'm like, what am I doing? It's the start a show.

Jonas, you just threw me off. I was waiting for your take on the leaves. Do you need a new start? Possibly. Maybe this is a chance for me to completely revamp the beginning of the show. Maybe Jeff should introduce the show. I don't know if the... No.

Why? I like when you come in front of it. Possible, right? I don't know if you've ever done this, but the worst is, like, on Sports Center or something. I've been on the panel where I'm describing a play and you have these two or three different thoughts. And your brain ceases right in the middle. And you don't know what the hell you're going to say. And if you don't get it together within a split second, you are absolutely.

Or you meander all the way through trying to get to the point you're about to make or a player that you want to talk about and you forget who you're talking. That happened to me last week or whatever you remember when Nikki Robertson went in on the hard four check. Just blanked. Just like, was it Lotton who scored? Yeah, you just just. It's kind of blank. If it's live, it's a Rodney Harrison situation.

It's a dangerous situation, man. Well, Dregs, it's good to see you. And we were talking about the Leafs and their goaltending situation and, you know, what the plan is with Hilda be here. Do you just keep playing? You hope Wall is going to return on Saturday? It's possible. I don't know what you're hearing on that.

But what do you see happening here with the goalie rotation moving forward? Saturday is possible for Joe Wall, the expectation. I don't know. Did Barube acknowledge us today that he'll be back on the ice tomorrow? That's the hope. Yeah. That's the hope that Joe Wall is on the ice tomorrow. And if he is and he feels good, then I guess.

What if Hilda plays great tonight? Yeah. Well, then I think as not a organization, but as a medical department with Joe Wohl in concert, with the... Nice. Thanks, Treggs. You're backing me up. Yeah.

I mean, you make that decision collectively. But that's fine, though, isn't it? Like, if Hildaby is good, and he certainly was good the other night, Yeah, but Jonas thinks, Dreggs that you should go to him. You shouldn't play Hildaby because that would be too much. Jonas says... I did not say it at all.

Dude, you did. You said playing... If Hildopi has a great game tonight, you said it would not be smart to play him again on Saturday. I did not say that at all. I said I was arguing with someone else about that. But you should be careful because of Wohl and Stolars. Right. Revisionous history is that you believe that if Wall... Yeah, but you recognize where they're at in the standings, right?

We try to explain that, Darren. He has no respect for that whatsoever. I see a big picture You guys are just focused on the game Yeah I was like cool you win that game And if your goal is out for a month You want to see the bigger picture Imagine the change that's going to take place

If the Maple Leafs don't make the playoffs That's the big picture And Joel was on a heater Yeah All right He just goes about doctors and health It's all good It's all good

It's like Yes you could win that game But then if he's out for a month You're going to lose more games Than you're going to win So what are you doing That's my point And they're in the situation they're in now, and the season goes on and you've got to keep playing.

But, you know, in terms of the Nielander's scenario, I'm curious where... I like it. You stand on this, where Willie's on the third line tonight. And Perube's not being shy about this. No. Like, he's like, this is the demotion. He's not playing well. Like, not those exact words, but he's not sugar-coating this.

Well, I will say this, and I was going to say it, and I will say it on SportsCenter, because I was eager to see what Jeff O'Neill's reaction to it was going to be. This is a situation where Will you know, Nealander is going to that third line as a compliment to that line, right? If Bobby McBan doesn't get suspended for one game, Nealander probably isn't going to that line, simply because why would you break up that line? Right, you wouldn't.

You wouldn't. You wouldn't with Joshua and Nick Gua. And Nick Robertson doesn't come out of the press box. You know, he stays in the press box. So, you know, Neelander is being put on that line, obviously because of his skill set. But the belief from the coach, at least, is that those two guys, in Dakota,

Joshua and Nick Waugh will get him the puck. But he's after going to put himself in a place to receive that puck and do something with it. So Willie's got to up his game for that line to be successful. But those two guys, through the eyes of Craig Barube, are the two that are probably going to get him more engaged than he's been. I think, Darren, like we were talking about it earlier. He's got to go from being more of a consistent player, as opposed to just looking for the spectacular play, floating around the red line, and he can make the spectacular play. That game against the New York Rangers, and overtime,

it's like, oh, Willie goes in there and he makes that play, and it's game over, they win the game. But there's just got to be more than that in a consistent basis, because it's just not there. Yeah, and unfortunately, you'd say that about a few others, but Willie sort of dip in and dip out has been more of an issue of late. Can I ask you guys a question? Go ahead.

As a leading score on a team ever been criticized more than William Neander? Are you saying it's un... I think in this case, I don't think he's been great. That's what he was never criticized by the coach. Are you kidding? Are you saying the coach in the marketplace? Okay, I should have clarified it. But you're saying the coach.

I've never seen a leading score of a team criticized more than this. But are you talking about publicly or what we see? You know, when he's getting an earful on the bench. Publicly and what I can see at practice, what we can see during games. I've never seen it. Do you think, like I used this reference last night, and it might be a bit extreme, Everyone talks about Steve Eisman, Scottie Bowman, got there and said, you got to play differently. You got to change your game.

There was those conversations with Ovechkin when, remember, Dale Hunter got down there and all that. It feels to me like that's what Berube is doing here. Like, Baroubae is adamant that, yes, we need you to score, we need you to be an offensive, dynamic player, but you have to check. You have to be in the right spot. You can't jump the zone. Let me ask you this. By the way, we have Pierre LeBrun with us. Pierre's join us.

We'll get you in just a second here, Pierre, but we're deep in Nylander chatter. Well, Pierre, you can follow up on this. Have you seen a massive difference in his play? With Perube, you mean? With Perube in his ear, in his ear. Have you seen, like, game by game change? Not consistently. Exactly.

So it's like, I don't know. But, like, I would say Matthews has made sacrifices to his game since Barubei's arrived. He's penalty killing. Right? He's up against more difficult competition. Right? no you don't think so jonas okay pierre go ahead you can jump in on this with nielander and perubay and their relationship yeah listen i i think i think this is pretty common that they're just

sometimes there's an oil and vinegar aspect to the way in a coach and a star player in iraq and i think that's the case here between these two i don't think it's gotten personal i don't think it's a situation that is you know beyond repair at all but i just think that neelander's demeanor and Jonas is around that team every day, nothing bugs that guy. And I think that Craig Barabay wants to come to work some days and have him or other players, especially when things weren't going well earlier this year,

act like it is bugging them if that makes any sense. That's what I see when I see the back and forth between the lander and Brubi. You know, that's the side of it that I think maybe bugs the coach. I can tell you from asking him, he does not seem bothered by it at all. Willie, you're saying. Yeah, like genuinely, and has said he likes, Craig Rubei, likes the relationship, feels like he's someone he can talk to,

feels like to Hayes' point that he has taught him to maybe simplify his game at times. I'm just saying, like, I think there's going to be a point where this is, you do it too many times. Like, he has been criticized publicly more than any other player on the team by, like, a mile. Yeah, the only reason he criticized is because the coach knows that he has more to give. That cannot be an $11 million opportunistic player where you're getting a break here. a bounce there and you do this spectacular thing and you raise your hand up and you but you can't be criticizing the guy every five games when it's like he literally leads the team he's responsible for i don't know what percentage of goals man you're a softy today nobody can be you guys the injuries

the comments on players and everything else well let me ask you this approach during the nchal when you scored 40 goals if your coach was criticizing you every other day would you be like I think Paul Maurice criticized me every other day. If I had an off game as a 40 goal score, he'd be like, down to the third line, you go, oh, dog, you've got to get your game in order, and then I would have to be a stud on the third line and get back to the

four goals a game. Exactly. I mean, five sometimes. Are you suggesting that he should take it off, Neelander, or be more consistent with other guys? I think that's probably the bigger point. If you're going to criticize him. Yes. But go out, and you've got to be realistic with who you're going at, but

like I look at a guy like Morgan Riley. Riley has not been perfect defensively at any point in his career. You're all over Nealander. You've got to do this. You got to do that. Why is he not stronger on Morgan Riley? I don't know. I don't have an answer for that.

But I think that would be reasonable if he was. What you're saying is like he knows the personality of William Nealander. He knows he can handle it. It's a good way to criticize your team without actually criticizing the team. You criticize the best player. Right. But I don't know. Like how many times can you keep doing this?

Like we're in December. This has happened like 10 times. Five times? It's a go-to play. Maybe our definition of critical. criticism isn't the same as Craig Burubes. What would you call it? Honest assessment?

Coaching. Motivating? All right. Name me one other player who has gotten criticized like this. Within the team, I don't know. Publicly. In Toronto, there's nobody that's even close. Not even close.

No. And I'm not arguing against that, Jonas. I mean, you see it with younger players. like Meechkoff probably puts his hand up and goes like, but he's a younger player, you know, on a different market. Willie's a, this is the 10th year in the league. He's also a game breaker, though, right? Yeah, you need them.

You're going to criticize Micelli? Okay. Yeah, well, exactly. Okay. Exactly. What's that going to do? He's not even playing right now with Darren Dregor, Pierre LeBron. Go ahead, Pierre.

I would say, Elias Patterson, in Vancouver has been much maligned at times in the Vancouver market. It should be. I mean, I think probably more so. I mean, of course, I would say, yeah, I would say more warranted in his case. Exactly. No, no, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.

Some, like, we got that internal email this morning. I couldn't believe this, that Jacob Fowler will make his debut tonight for the Havs against Pitt. And Ken Dryden, Patrick Waugh, Carrie Price, all started their careers against the Pittsburgh Penguins. Is that a, is this a coincidence, Pierre? Are they setting him up? like is this the fourth guy of the greatness of gold tending in montreal how do we feel about fowler going tonight well i can assure you this wasn't a plan three months ago uh by the montreal canaanians that jacobler will be called up for this game i can guarantee you that in fact

in a perfect world while the canians internally thought fowler would get NHL games this year it's certainly the original plan was was that it would be in the second half of the season But they need saves. And so, you know, he's played really well at the H.L level. And the two guys in the NHL uniform have not been very good at all. And in particular, Samuel Montaumbo, who needs a reset here. And that's the other side of all this is that the HABs internally are hoping that Motombo can, you know, take a breath here and rebound and come back better for it.

And, I mean, they're not going to forget he had three good years before this year. But he's just arguably been the worst starting goalie in the league this year. year. And it's really hurt Montreal. It's hurt their confidence. They're a young team and now they're looking over their shoulder, wanting if they're going to get a save. So the call-up of Jacob Fowler is absolutely important. It's timely. And there are a lot of people around that kid that think he's up to this. So we'll see. I mean, they better play better defensively in front of them because I don't care if you're Igor Shosturkin, but the Hav's defensive play has not been very good either. Yeah, that certainly doesn't help. And we do the Canadian mood meter here with the seven Canadian

coaches, and I'll get to mine next hour. I can't think of one positive team with a goaltending scenario right now. Like Demko's out. Obviously, Edmonton's a mess. Wolf has not played well this year. By his standards, it has not gone well. Hallibuck's injured. Hildobie's

playing for the leaves. Olmarts been awful, horrible, and the halves have called up a kid to play tonight. Like, there's not one positive goaltending story in the country. Dude, you can throw in 20 teams from the U.S. with the same problems, too. I guess you're right. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. Like, is that condensed schedules? Is it a coincidence?

Like, what do we make of the old-tending problems? Well, maybe it's just a collection of average. I mean, Hullabuck is injury. Yeah. So, I mean, he's elite. Demco is very, very good. Injury-related. You know, Stu Skinner and Cal Peckard, you've got to look at the body of the work.

And, you know, we're lucky at a smaller sample size. 30 games in, and you're right. Their goal-tending has been wildly inconsistent. But we talked about this in Colorado Springs. I look into the future. I try to, right? And names like Curtis Joseph, Carrie Price, Marta Ambruder, Patrick, well, I mean, we're talking about the best of the best back in the day.

Aside from a couple of few, five years from now, there's going to be a goalie crisis. If not North America across National Hockey League. Dude, I think there already is there. Is that because you don't think kids are playing it enough? Don't think so. No, and I, Pierre and I were part of this conversation. We had two owners. You know, owners are more hands-on now than they've ever been at the National Hockey League level,

but literally state that they're worried about goaltending in the future. Not this year, next year, the year after. Five years from now, especially in North America, where are these goalies coming from? Because they're not playing hockey. It's either too expensive, or this is going to sound ridiculous. athletes aren't jumping at the opportunity to play a goal. Does that make sense? You know what I'm saying?

So maybe it's the short dumpy kid that gets the pads. I don't know. That's how you could make a comeback as a goalie at some point. Oh, really? I'm a short dumpy kid. I'm six feet tall. I know. I'm kidding.

Philip Rivers. You would fill her two peas in a pod. I didn't explain that very well. The short dumpy kid was, I was just taken aback by that idea. Pierre, that's, do you stand by that short dumpy kids? That's the future of goaltending in the NHL. It seems like it's all giants right now. I'm not, I don't think I'll touch that particular aspect of what Dregs just brought up.

But I think Dreg's is bang on. I mean, I was there when those two owners talked to us about it. Let's bring it to Canada specifically, and maybe because I've spent so much time, you know, looking at the Olympic roster maneuvers here for Team Canada and so on. And obviously, as Doug Armstrong himself told me a couple of days ago, the team Canada goalie position remains, quote, unquote, the most fluid still. I mean, that's just the reality of it for Team Canada. If you look at the NHL stats for goalies who have played a certain amount of, you know,

for starters and go by nationality, There actually even aren't that many Canadian goalies in the NHL right now. I haven't backtrack to stats on this, but I wonder if this isn't the fewest amount of Canadian goalies playing right now in the NHL in the history of the league in particular. I mean, just think about that for a moment. And listen, some of that is that the game keeps growing and we're obviously opening doors to people from all kinds of different countries

playing net and playing the NHL. that's the positive spin. But unfortunately, for Canada, I don't think that's really what's happening here. I just don't think Canada's developing as many elite goalies as they used to. Let them play for free. Yeah. In minor hockey, the goalies play for free. We've had that issue with...

I love that idea. But you know what happens? The other parents say, well, that's not fair. Like, I'm paying. Why is this kid not paying? Why aren't there? Because I know from experience, I've heard, and I've seen through the grapevine, and I've been through these experience where your teams are short goalies.

like we got to have a goalie. And you're right. Then it's like, well, what else do you want? Not have a goalie, not have a team? Some kids, like smaller kids, they got to rotate who plays a net. Yeah. Yeah. No, I hear it's, but this is legit, worthy of a summit. Like we joke, oh, you lose the world juniors, let's have a summit. No, this is actually existential.

Big time. And you're right. They've got to get to the bottom of that. All right, Pierre, Dregs, good seeing you guys. Thanks for doing us, as always. There they are the insiders. Pierre LeBron, Darren, are joining us. Sorry about that.

I owe you an apology. That was a dick con. I want to get out before you Rob Ramey. I want to make sure that I apologize and mention it and say, I take that back completely. That Rob Ray's piss. I'm worried about noodles in Buffalo next week. Legit.

He should go out there with the mascot's head in between the benches. That would be if he showed up with a mascot head on? Yeah. The lion in Buffalo, the Buffalo, the mascot head, and walk in between the benches with it on. I need that video. Do it. We need that video.

If you have any stones, noodles. Yeah, you're going to call noodles out now? Yeah. Okay. Iheart Radio. Everything holiday. All in one place. From 24-7 Christmas music to the stories behind the Christmas hits with Drew Savage.

Listen to the podcast on the free I-Heart Radio app, your destination for all things Christmas. Merry Christmas. These are the songs that get you in the spirit. Keep listening for all your Christmas favorites.