OverDrive - Dreger and LeBrun on the Flames' trade buzz, the Maple Leafs' options and the Atlantic Division stance

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

TSN Hockey Insiders Darren Dreger and Pierre LeBrun joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the Maple Leafs seeking options to add to the team, the trade value of the roster, the Flames' rebuild direction, the Atlantic Division trek and more.

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I'm not sure he, like, this is, I'll say this. Yeah, I don't think it's outlandish based on history. I'm not sure he wins a heart ever again. Because, it's tough to do, man. It's tough to do, he has a woman in a few years. In that argument, yeah, that's enough. We've got to put this to bed. Dregs is in here.

Okay. I was talking about Austin Matthews. Yeah. Right? I was not sure he went hard again. I need to start revising everything. Talking about McDavid. I made the case.

I don't know if he's going to win a heart again. You know, that's a great thing about sports when you're watching something. I went on the quiz and was the Evanton Oilers were so bad. I said there was a 0% chance they were making the playoffs. I know. And there was a lot of people that agreed with it. They're like they're so brutal right now. It doesn't look like they're climbing out of this.

Now they're in first in their division. Right. Subject to change. You also said that Nate McKinnon had vastly pulled away as the best player on the planet. Miles ahead of McDavid. He said that. and Duffy. Yes.

And the Quizmaster's been pushing that narrative since the summer, too, right? Like, that is something he's been pushing for quite some time. But I got to own it. I got to own it. I'm standing by it.

And they're in Winnipeg tonight. Dregs you're with us. Pierre LeBron will join us here in a moment. And you guys are going to be on the panel tonight, lease flyers. And even like the dialogue around Matthews. Yeah. Right?

Like, we've been pumping his tires because he deserves it. And I, you see, again, the comment section is what it is. It's like, I thought two weeks ago, you said he was brutal. Yeah, he was. Two weeks ago he was playing poorly, and now he's playing better. That's the point. That's the way it works.

That's a good thing. Yeah, and we'll talk about it as part of the game. I mean, there's no scientific explanation for how that switch flipped. There just isn't. The best explanation I got today, and you guys are probably going to, whatever, is that even though the agent, the general manager, the coach, everyone associated, Matthews included, kept saying he's not injured. There's nothing lingering from training camp. He's over all of it. He's over all of it.

The way it was explained to me today was, while he was over all of it, he wasn't hurt, he wasn't playing injured, he wasn't playing at 100%. And whether or not it's a brief break, a couple, three days, whatever it is around Christmas, he just started to feel really, really good again. So now he's at like 90% instead of 70%

and a 90% Austin Matthews is pretty damn good. And that makes sense to me. me. It does. Even if people are going to dismiss it, that does make sense. Something's got to give. I mean, the guy, he looks great. He's playing really well. He looked like his disposition. Looks and feels differently. It's like, it was like the fog lifted off the team because they were literally skating out.

They were all in a fog. They were out of him. And if you don't play the game, and there's only, I don't know if there's ever been a player where no matter what your talent level is, if you don't bring some kind of a enthusiasm or excitement to the game, like, it's just not going to. to happen. Any of them. Like, if you don't bring that, like, you've got no chance. Yeah. That's a big part of it. The attitude of the team. Like, whether you have to leave for not.

And that's contagious, isn't it? Right? Like, when your leader is playing that way, now there's no excuses as a player who's playing with him or below him. Right. Okay. That's what he's doing, so I better bring my energy up a couple of notches. Well, and, like, the injury stuff has got to affect the room too, right? Like, every other day is someone else

is going down. Bunkers. And, you know, like, with Tanev, who knows, stole our who knows, those are major pieces. Right? Like, how do the Leafs navigate this? Well, they're looking for a defenseman. I mean, that's been the case, you know. Like an impact guy or like a depth guy?

No, I mean, there's, there are depth pieces available. I mean, look at what the Winnipeg Jets are doing right now, right? I'm pretty sure if the Toronto Maple Leafs wanted to reunite Luke Chen, they'd get them for a lower end draft pick. And I think that Luke is looking for a better opportunity, bigger role. I mean, we can appreciate, given where he's at in his career. And I mean this very respectful, Luke, because, okay, granted, he's not, he was never quick, but he's slower now.

But, man, he's still a simple, smart defenseman, tough, you know, he's got that personality in the presence in that room, no matter how many minutes he's playing. But, yeah, I mean, Brad Trillibing has to be aiming higher. And how much higher? Again, that depends on what they ask is coming back. Yeah, that's it, man. That's where they struggle. What you're going to give up.

Well, because I wrote about this for tomorrow, and I mentioned Shen, I think it makes sense because of the price. And, like, they're a better defenseman. Rasmus Anderson is a much better defenseman, obviously. But I don't know. But I don't think they have the assets to get better defensemen. They have zero assets. What do you tell you? Well, they don't have zero assets.

Like, you could trade Easton if you wanted. You could trade Ben Danford. They're going to laugh. They have a second round pick in 2027. Cool. Like, they have, they don't have nothing, but other teams have better stuff. Right. you know what I mean?

Yeah, exactly. That's the question. And yeah, I mean, what is your team right now, too? Like, Tray Living's got to consider that. Right. You know, it's like, if you're Colorado, you're like, yeah, we're in it to win it. Yes. The least aren't even in the playoffs right now.

What are you going to do, spend on this? Yeah, exactly. Let's say you go get Ross Ms. Anderson. Let's say that's the guy. Yeah, and let's say it takes all your best stuff. Call and Danford and it picks. Only if you get them on an extension. Obviously.

And then that's like its own thing. Like, should you be extending this guy? Why not? Well, your defense is old already. He's going to be 30. Well, yeah, but you can rejig that in the offseason too, right? Like, I mean, you're going to have to move some of those pieces. And you?

Yeah. I mean. But yeah, it's a fair question. Like, do you extend him? But is that the right move for them? Like, that's all your stuff. To me, it doesn't feel like the right timing for that. I'd give it another 10 or 15 games, personally.

Fair, fair. You know, like, I just, I know they've been playing better recently, good for them. They're in a better position right now. I'm not making a play where I'm unloading everything I've got. No. And you know where I stand on this, Jonas. I think at some point they've got to reload and rebuild the farm system. Like you've got to have young players.

It's not much in the Marley's. And if it's not Quinn Hughes, okay. Yes, exactly. But like, Anderson's not Quinn. How can you go from saying you're going to unload Easton Cow and Ben Danford, a first round pick from somewhere in 2035, and you've got to have to rebuild your farm system. Well, they don't, exactly. It doesn't work that way.

And look, I mean, they high value Easton Cowan. Fair or unfair. I think it's fair. I think it is. He's a good young player. He's a good young player, and you don't have enough of that moving forward, and he's more or less homegrown. And, I mean, there's been speculation in the market that Toronto was pushing him for Braden Shinn and all.

That's not what happened. Now, if Toronto was going to trade Easton Cowan, you know, wind it back several months or move it forward. Doesn't matter. It's for a can't miss. And to the discussion we're having right now, maybe the miss is the timing of doing it in the first place because maybe this team isn't good enough to waste those assets.

To your point, Brian, we don't know. We don't know yet. It's too early. Let's bring in Pierre LeBrunner, TSN Hockey Insider as well. As we round table this bad boy, and we're going to five boxes up on TV? I hope so, because I always love being right in the middle of this. There it is. Yes, Pierre, I love it.

Where do you stand on this, Pierre, in terms of the Leafs? Is it a fork in the road? You try to improve. If you're going to sell, is it too early to think that way? Like, how do you think Tree Living could be approaching this scenario? Well, before I get that, let me thank Brian Gooding from the Fergus Whalers, Junior C hockey team here in Fergus, Ontario, for setting me this Fergus Whalers City this week.

Love it. Thank you, Brian. Yes. I appreciate it. I thought I'd wear it on overdrive. Yeah. Everything Whalers is greatly appreciated. You know, the Leafs are in such a tough spot.

I've listened to everything you guys were saying, and I think you pretty much covered the scenarios. I think you've got to get to the Olympic break and see if this resurgence is real and you bung in there. I wouldn't do anything before then. Because of all the assets you've already spent, and, you know, as another GM from another team was telling me today, because this is what they feel is true for a lot of teams in the East.

You know, the Eastern Conference standings are like a crushed beer can right now. Everyone's on top of each other. And you've got to get to the Olympic break and actually say to yourself, are we still in this? Now, the flip side to that argument is, if you miss an opportunity the next couple of weeks before the February 4th trade freeze to help yourself, have you missed your window? And will that help your season slip away if you didn't,

act. I'm not, I don't care about that option. I do think you got to get the Olympics and make sure you're still in this race before you spend more assets if you're Toronto. I don't think you, I don't think you can be too aggressive before that in my opinion. There's still 12 days to go after the Olympics. It's not like Vancouver in 2010. The trade deadline was literally 48 hours after the gold medal game. There's 12 days after the trade freeze from Milan. There's time to assess where you are what your needs are and decide whether or not you want to be aggressive in theory one last time with this group. Here, before the season started,

all we were doing was talking about, and it's come to life where all the teams there's so much parity, everyone's so close together. When are teams going to start, like, just realizing that we're in the middle of the pack here, but we're still not that good, so what the hell is the set to tell everyone that we are that good? Like we were mentioning Doug Armstrong,

where he would be one guy that would say, you guys aren't bluffing me, like I just don't really believe in this right now. Right. And I think that Doug Armstrong has told other teams that about the blues right now, that even when the blues recently had their push, and I think there were only a point or two out of the last wild card spot in the West, which, by the way, the last wildcard spot in the West seems like whoever wants this is going to back in. But, you know, I've been told by other teams that he has said, you know, I don't care if we make the playoffs or not. We're not beating Colorado in the first round, so I'm still listening on all these guys. That's, to your point, O'Dag, that's how more teams should be.

I mean, you know, I think Nashville's like that, like the Predators have been way better over the last month. But at the end of the day, Barry Trots is still going to take your phone call on Stamcoast, and Marceau and maybe O'Reilly right up to March 6th. It's complicated with some no trades in some of those cases. But the predators are looking to the future here, regardless of the fact they're playing better. The team that I think is in jeopardy of making. a mistake here if they're not real with themselves as the Calgary Flames.

They've got to be real. They're not making the playoffs. And I know there's always pressure from ownership there to stay competitive and not give up on years. No man's land is the killer in this league, Tier Point O'Dog. And they've got to be real and they've got to start listening on some of their veterans. They have an opportunity.

There's not a lot of sellers. They have an opportunity to cash in with some of their veteran players. Well, who the hell thinks they're good? Well, it's more about the circumstance of the West, like I think he said, right? Like 90 points might get you a wildcard spot right now, the way it's trending. It likely will change. But

I agree with your assessment on Calgary. I think they need to rip the Band-Aid off. I would say, I don't know what more Vancouver can do is willing to do, and let's be clear here, Winnipeg's worse. Well, just one thing on Calgary, and I was talking with Craig Button about this at the World Juniors, it's, you can't just

go scorched earth and leave young kids with young kids, and it's just there's no leadership, and there's no veteran presence and there's just nothing running the operation as far as veteran leadership. You can't really have that. So to have some quality guys around like a McKenzie Wigger

and I don't know if Cadreier or Anderson but you just the idea of just saying get rid of everybody and leaving every like it's a difficult thing to do to those young kids out there. Yeah and that applies to Winnipeg to a point as well. Look I mean these these owners are open to whatever presentations

management is going to make. I mean most teams including Toronto Maple Leafs right now are in the pro and amateur scouting meetings, right? And they're looking at whiteboards filled with names from all of these other teams around the NHL. But when you're talking about a full-on rebuild in Canada, that's a tough one. That's a tough one. You have to be able to rejig on the fly. You have to maintain a level of competitiveness. And oh, to your point, if you've got good young quality players that are developing through this process, I think the fan base is okay with that, as long as they can see the development.

In Winnipeg, that's going to be a challenge because, yeah, Winnipeg has done a good job of controlling certain pieces like Hallibuck and Schifley and... Conner just right. Morrissey and Kyle Connor and all of that. But the draft hasn't necessarily been kind in Winnipeg over the last few years, number of years, right? Yeah, they've got Cole Perfetti in there, but, you know, he's a complimentary piece, right? So when you look at that 2006 draft, the hockey side of things in Winnipeg might... They might try and convince themselves, we got to get one of these big picks. We need an impact player from this draft, right?

Is ownership going to be on side with that if it means that for the next three to five years, you're going to stink? Well, it's a valid question. Now, my argument would be it's not five or six years. It's three more months because they're dead last in the league right now. So, like, you know, the way they're playing, they're playing themselves in a scenario where you're going to get a lottery pick. I could see them, I think what's more interesting in Winnipeg personally is do they look at this and say, hey, it was just an awful year, everything went to hell for whatever reason. We couldn't score.

We could, you know, how luck got hurt. Because they won the President's trophy a year ago. Like, Vancouver's different. Vancouver's in a weird spot. Calgary has not been a good team for a couple of years. Like, they're not a competitive team. Winnipeg has, they were the number one scene in the league last year. Yeah, Vesden trophy winner.

Exactly. Like that one, that's a turnaround right there. It's a crazy turnaround. 32nd in 8 months, it's wild, but you can sell it like, okay, this isn't as bad as we are. This is a crazy start moving out some of the depth guys.

Exactly. But commit to it now the rest of the way. And I don't know how you do that. Like you're going to play Hella Buck, and if he gets hot, he gets hot. But you know, it's, you've gone this far, Pierre, I guess is what I'm saying. With those three teams in particular, and you're right, drags about the long-term vision.

But you know these markets, when they start doing the draft lottery, they start looking at the picks, man. You get excited. Yeah, very, very excited. And you can sell that pierre as well. If you get a high-end pick. Yeah, there's no question, Ryan. And you could tell it in Vancouver market that at least anecdotally, I mean, they got a real solid return for Quinn Hughes. Now, you never want to be in a position where you're trading Quinn Hughes at his age. But once you were down that path, they got a really good return from Minnesota. And the market of Vancouver seemed up for a rebuild. But then that rebuild got coined a little differently.

management, you know, talked about a hybrid rebuild. That's what the Canucks are looking at. And I will just say this, that a lot of teams have looked at what Washington has done over the last few years, that quick little transition, you know, rebuild on the fly. And a lot of teams are seeing that as the modern-day version of the rebuild. And that's fine. It's worked out great in Washington. I think it's difficult to thread that needle, though. You really have to, you know, they were aggressive with a number of trades. And it doesn't, just because Washington did it, doesn't necessarily mean that it's easily doable for every single franchise in a league. I also think there's this, I think we have to readjust our view of the NHL in terms of

the teams that are in and the teams that are rebuilding and we create these different tiers. I forget the athletic, we're all about tears. And, you know, I was talking to Julian Breezebo about this today for a piece tomorrow on the lightning. And here's Tampa, eight in a row, first in the Atlantic. you know, we were ready to close the book on them last year, three straight years exit in the first round. Beginning of this year, too, they stunk to join out. And now they're, here they are doing their thing. And one of the things I asked them about is the Atlantic Division. All these teams that have rebuilt, Detroit has finally arrived, Montreal, young and exciting, Buffalo seems to have come out of a 14-year slumber.

The Leaf's sudden resurgence, they're not ready to quit. So you've got all these old teams that aren't ready to quit, and all these young teams, teams. There's eight teams in the race in an 18 division. And Julian Breezeball said, yeah, that's what we see. It's harder than ever now in our division to make the playoffs. And that's just the reality right now. All these things are overlapping on top of each other. And we're used to always saying on this show, these are the teams that are in. These are the teams that are out. Well, what happens when you have eight teams that think they're in? Trouble. Because someone's lying to themselves. At three teams, at least. Because only five can make it. You know,

presuming the two Wildcurt's come out of that division. division. And like you bring up the Washington example. What's fascinating about them is they're pro scouting, which doesn't come up enough. Like we focus on the draft and picks and prospects. They went out and got Chickren, Strom, Thompson, Pierluke the ball, which I credit them on, because I didn't think that was a good move. 100%. Those are pro players.

Those were, that's not an 18-year-old kid. For sure, pro-DOS has been big. Michael's good player. 100%, drag. somebody with a good eye has been sniffing out those guys. number one center, chickens are number one defensemen, and they're starting goal. And the coach. And the coach. That's

pro scouting. That's not amateur scouting. What a statement of quite everybody. What a point I just made. What a point I just made. But anyway, I think that's important to point out. It's not if you're retooling on the fly. Whatever you're doing, if you're rebuilding, retooling, expansion,

you have to be successful at all levels. Free agency, drafting, digging around and finding reclamation projects, All of it, and it's all got a hit. And if one of them doesn't, you might be in a bad spot. Just one of them. Well, and even with Washington, they're scraping to get in right now.

Like, yes, last year they had a great year. They won around. You know, like, they didn't win a Stanley Cup because of it. But, and it's factual to use and identify Washington as exhibit A in terms of rebuilding on the fly. They didn't have Alex Ovechkin. I'm not, it wouldn't be that way. Wouldn't be that way. Like, you know, like Chris Patrick, the general manager,

has to continue to furnish Ovechkin and company with good players, right? And some of those are gambols. There's no doubt about that. Pierre-Luc Dubois, before he was injured, was playing well, but it was a gamble. If Ovechkin isn't there isn't still playing, I'm not so sure the capitals are on that same path. They take a different route, possibly, and regroup and say, we need our next superstar or what have you. That likely comes through the draft with Pierre Levinan and Darren Dregor, TSA Hockey Insider. Go ahead, Pierre.

Well, I was just going to say, and more important than ever is managing up. I've never heard this more real than it is in the last few years, and I think Dregs will attest, like, you need to know what ownership is okay with before you go ahead with it. It's easy for us to sit back and say, this is what Calgary should be doing, which literally I did on this segment. But, you know, there's an ownership that has not wanted a rebuild. They do not want a full rebuild in Calgary. So you have to deal with reality, you know, Toronto, ownership. What do they want?

How long is the plan here to keep this window open? I think it's a good question. Yeah, well, what about Ottawa? Steve Steyas just said, we'll compete when we're ready to compete. How does ownership feel about that stable? Well, probably just okay. Wouldn't be surprised. I mean, Ann Lauer is heavily involved, right?

Like he's not pushing buttons, but he has a strong voice in that process, and he's known Steyhouse for a long, long time. But the one thing that Steyhouse has been very cautious of is not upsetting. I don't know if culture is the right word. Whatever, you know, like the development of certain guys, it feels like we should be beyond that when we're talking about Brady Kachuk, Drake Batherson, Shane Pinto, Tim Stutz. I like to pass that, right?

These are bona fide, really strong NHL players. So I don't know how to read into that comment of, well, compete when we're ready to compete. When they get better goal-tending? I don't know. That's a major factor, but I don't want to slam the Ottawa senators right now. But sometimes you have a scenario where that group of players that you just mentioned, Dregs, they're just good enough to get into the playoffs and losing the first round.

They're just good enough to miss the playoffs. And you have so many positive thoughts about a group of players, and yet they can't get it done. So how much could you actually love them? And continue to say, this is our group, and they've got to keep growing and growing and growing. Couldn't you say it the same in the Toronto Maple Leafs? Absolutely. Absolutely, Darren. You can.

It's like, how do you keep saying there is even a window with that group of players? And you look back at, like, some of the other organizations, the Blackhawks, the Kings, the Pittsburgh Penguins, they won Stanley Cups when those guys were 22 and 21 and 24. And now we're almost, we're getting into the United States. the 30s now. It's like, man, that's a giant window, man.

Like, the idea, we talked about it before, investing more, like, draft picks into this group of players in Toronto. Invest anything more with these guys at their age. I don't know, Pierre, go ahead. Well, I'm not saying I disagree with you on Ottawa, but I think they're a better team than what they've shown, but they can't get a save. I hate to simplify

it that much, but you look at so many of the underlying numbers. This is a better hockey team than what they are. Maybe so. They've got some of the worst goal-teying in the league. So, and I think when I hear Steyos say that at his mid-season availability, I think that's about getting ahead of maybe something they can't get out of here this year in terms of getting, you know, finishing in the playoffs and trying to get ahead of the messaging,

which is how did this happen? That's what I saw in terms of his messaging to his local media, that I better get ahead of this because maybe we're not getting out of this hole. I think they're a better team than what they're showing here for a very simple reason. Well, it's been, can't get a save here for a while. They can't get a save. Yeah, but it's been can't get a save with Matt Murray, can't get a save with Corpusallo, and now it can't get a save.

Allmark who's not even around. He's not even putting his gear on right now. So it's been can't get a save for a long time. Yeah. Like the Allmark scenario is a tricky one because he's just gone on a personal leave. It was in the building the other night of the game. Yeah. Like, what is...

That is strange. Would you get cap relief from that? No. I don't believe so. What are they going to do? Go spend $8 million. They're not going to do that anything. Don't us check on that if they get cap relief. Chat, GP Jonas. Hey, Jonas.

You have to be injured or whatever. In a program, and I don't think he's either. Jonas is O's assistant when he needs anything looked up. Hey, Jonas. Look that up for us. All right, boys. Well, we'll leave it there. good stuff.

It's a good looking sweater you're wearing. It feels good. It feels good. You want it? What do you have on that? No, you missed it. We talked about it before you came on. You'd be a voice of reason here.

You'd be a voice of reason here. Unfortunately, your colleague at the athletic here at Jonas said it doesn't matter what happens the rest of the season. McDavid wins the heart. And no one can beat him. No one can catch them. Maybe McKinnon. You said McKinnon's got the possibility.

But Celebrini, no chance. Kucherov, no chance. If this keeps him. Sidal Vasilevsky? 100%. No chance. It's just McDavid wins the heart. That's it.

Well, again, just so we're clear, we're not debating the best player in the world. Exactly. I think Macklin-Cellibrini has a heart trophy case right now. How are the San Jose sharks in a playhouse spot? Here, you're too late with this. Dude, that's a shark bias. This guy used to go out to San Jose every winter

for the playoffs, every spring. This is a shark's biased opinion. That's a fact. That is a fact. Busted. Wailers and sharks. Wait, what was our question about Jerry Jones? He's a good one to ask about that. Yeah, Jerry's going to retire when he wins four more Super Bowls. So now you have a date.

You just need four more seasons. A four-year dynasty Super Bowl run, and Jerry Jones will finally leave. There you go. You know, I've got 16 other family members there, so he should be fine. Someone else will step in. I thought you guys were going to be classy and not mention the clown show that is the Jones on my Cowboys. But in response to that, Brian, my apologies for knocking you out in the first round of the fantasy football playoffs. Disgusting. Disgusting. Disgusting. Because the loser, Dak Prescott, and the bigger loser, C.D. Lamb.

I had both of them, and they stunk. And I lost by half a point. Here, I just want to ask you that. I just want to ask you something about, like, it's just about the fandom with, like, a massive organization like the Cowboys. Have you ever once thought of pulling the pin and just? that I'm not doing it. I'm going somewhere else. No. No, I'm dug in more than ever because I think that if they ever figure it out, it'll be that much sweeter. I refuse to give up.

He's also forced his kids to be fans. I have a cowboy thing on my driver on my license plate down in the car. I'm in forever. It's just like Lee fans. Same thing. And they, I mean, they won three Super Bowls in the 90s. Could you imagine a Leaf fan? You know what it's like.

You're not jumping off. The best part of the ride. It is. Absolutely. Because it will pay off at some point. All right, boys. We'll leave it down a positive spot. Leaves for the cup.

Leaves win it. There he is. Darren, Piero, Pierre Lebrunner, T.S. and Hockey Insiders. All right. Jonas has got a very positive list, I'm assuming. Very positive on the Leafs. Leaves Flyers tonight.

We'll get to our best bets. Rapids with another walk-off win last night. Oh, go ahead. You're my mind on. I'm going to try on Jonas's cardigan before the end of the show. All right. Stick around for that. Oh, my.

I'm going to give it a rip. I love it. You literally are going to rip it? I love it. Farley and Spade. Do you think I can fit in that thing, Darren? No. Will you allow him to try it on? Well, will you compensate him if you rip it in half?

I'll buy him a brand new one. You got to allow him out. Unless it's made a spandex. I don't like your chances. All right. Dude, that thing has got to be a man's extra small, isn't it? Probably, yeah. The old dog, you're ripping my sweater.

The old dog's about to put his cardigan on. This is going to get your Canadian Screen Award. Seasoned gamer or just video game curious, this week in gaming is the podcast for you. We break down the latest in the world of video games from basics to beyond. The hottest gaming news, insight and industry leaders and more weekly. Join me, Naomi Kyle, and stay ahead of the game with all the latest updates. Even if you're a total newbie. Stream this weekend gaming on the free IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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