OverDrive - Ferraro on Hughes' departure from Vancouver, Matthews' decreasing play and the Sabres' revamp

Episode Date: December 17, 2025

ESPN Hockey Analyst Ray Ferraro joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the NHL, the Sabres' dynamic revamp, Quinn Hughes' trade to the Wild and his departure from Canucks, Auston Matthews' diminishing play this season and more.

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Here's our good friend Ray Ferraro. What's happening, Ray? Oh, you guys are salty at the Sabres. We're pissed at everybody, Ray. We're pissed at everyone. Best of the season to you and all that stuff, right? Yeah, we'll get there. We'll get there.

Well, you guys must have read that thing, right? Since Scotty Bowman got hired in 1979, they've never had anyone be the GM in Buffalo that'd been a GM before. It doesn't that seem, like, how the hell does that even happen? Somewhere along the line, would you not go, yeah, we probably need an experienced hand here. Well, Ray, what do you think of Yarmo going in there? I actually, I like Yarmo's a guy every time I see him. He seems like a good dude.

I think he's a smart guy. But as far as him being the one taking over, what do you think of the transaction? That the only, the reason I like it all is because I think he'll hire an experienced group of people to be in the management position to at least chart a path of whatever it's going to be. Whether you like it or not, there'll be a path to follow. You know, this summer there, you know, Kevin Adams is still the GM and, you know, they hire Eric Saul as an advisor. It just retired last year. I don't know that people understand, and I'm guessing they don't because I didn't get it until Cammy got hired.

Now, Cammy got hired by Jim Rutherford, who's been around forever. And so she had somebody basically handholding her to, this is what your job is, this is the job description, this is in the job description, this is what we kind of head towards, and then you have to grow on your own. Like, who was going to show Eric Stahl what to do? Like, who was going to be able to do that? And I'm not picking on Eric. I'm picking on anybody that starts brand new.

We all need somebody to show us where you take your first step. And look at, if you look at Buffalo over the years, like, remember when we'd go in and play them when Pacca was there and, you know, Lindy was there for his first time through his coach, You went in there, and if you didn't play hard, they were going to run you out of the building. If you knew what they were, what could you say their identity is now? Like, what are they trying to be? And the answer is, I really don't know. And if you don't know, how would you ever win?

Yeah, that's the biggest challenge, Ray. Where do you think Kecklein starts? Like, you know, is it with the culture of this group? like it's 14 years it's been a lot of good players have come and gone I mean where do you which day he's got to make decision on players

like you got to look at Owen power and be like are you a player or not like or Tuck you're going to sign them or not apparently Tuck wants an outrageous money I don't know how that got leaked but they got to make decisions on what players and I don't know Ray you go ahead like there is

so much work to be done there it's insanity well I think the the biggest mistake for any Sabres fans would think that Yarmo could make three moves and it would all be okay. No kidding. You know, like this is, at least he's been there and had a chance to look at what's going on. Look at the players. Like you bring up power. You know, one of the things they did in Buffalo, for whatever reason, they signed all those guys that were 20 years old to seven-year contracts.

Yeah. Like, what would be the thought? where were they going to go? Were they going to quit and go do something else? Like, you had, that's the time you could control their contract, let them grow a little bit and get a better sense of what they are. Because now you're, those guys like Samuelson and him, they have five years left on their contract. And you probably still don't know what they are.

So, you know, I mean, that's certainly one thing to take care of noodles. I heard you talking about the other day about culture. and I'm with you except the hardest part to that and we've all played on good teams and unfortunately lots of bad teams and so does the winning make a culture or does the culture make winning

because I don't recall playing on bad teams that had a great culture like where everybody trusted each other I played on lots of bad teams that had really good guys but I don't know that we had any sort of winning culture so I think you've got to decide okay is Lindy our coach and if he's not our coach who do we want to get in there because the coach is going to help you determine which players are part of this plan which players are part of that next couple of years going forward

well then if Lindy's not your guy Ray go call up Peter DeBoer and get him in there then and do it right away if you're Pete the board do you want to do that like can you imagine the, and honestly, I mean like with any bad team, could you imagine the work that you do just to barely get your fingernails on the ledge that you're not falling in the water? Well, the price has got to be right. You remember the offer that Toronto, or Buffalo had for Mike Babcock. It was, it was massive cake to get him to go there. It's just, if you're going to have to pay a guy, you're going to have to pay a guy. But I think it starts there. I think one of the things Craig Button is mentioned about the coaching

in the National Hockey League, regardless of the status of your team. If you're the bottom dweller, or you're rebuilding, or you're a cop contender, coaching is so important to whatever situation your team is at. And they've got to get a guy in there if Lindy's not going to be the guy.

There's no question. I mean, man, the systems, I guess, guys played when we played, certainly like even 10 years ago, There was no possible way the game was as structured and coached as it is now. There was no way.

And if you don't have, if these young players, because they're still a relatively young team, if they don't have a direction on how to learn to be a real NHL player, then you just skate around and you do the best you can and, you know, somebody yells about accountability, but you don't even really know. what it is and then you move on to the next game and they're talented enough that they win some they lose some after all this time they still haven't got the goalies figured out right like that the no kidding man the lack of of clear direction like when my brother-in-law was coaching there donnie like they had you know they had lukin and then they had devon levi so they had two

goalies that had like a hundred games in the league and they were just getting their teeth kicked in and then they went and got another inexperienced goalie i think it was eric comrie and you're like holy like have they not seen that they probably need somebody there with some stability just so those young guys could learn at a more leisurely pace instead of just getting thrown over the defense like it noodles is lukin it any good like how would you know i like him i i like how would you know right is he does he need more coaching? Does he need better D? Like, what's the, like, doesn't he have the profile of the number one, whether he is or isn't?

I don't know. It's hard, I've said this before. It's hard, even if you're a good goalie, you play on a bad team, you're going to look bad. Like, that's just how it is. You're a product of the group in front of you. But we were talking about it yesterday, Ray. Like, they've had Lena Solmark played there. Yeah, they had Jack, Ray, we were talking about how important the positions were.

It was like they had Allmark and they had Jack Eichael. And they both had to be removed from the situation. And now they're just dying for both. Crazy stuff. I saw a, somebody put a lineup together. Of what was there? Oh, my gosh. It's unbelievable.

Like their first line was Reinhart, Eichel. I can't even remember. But I looked at the team and I'm like, damn, that's a good team. If they would have done nothing, just sat there. Yeah, they were loaded. They've had a bunch of really good players come and go. And, you know, we'll see if they reset or not. But in terms of, you know, where you mentioned the Vancouver Canucks

and the dust is not quite settled, I'm sure, on Quinn Hughes, but can you give us an update? Like, what is the market doing? Well, how is everyone holding up with Quinn Hughes now leaving Vancouver? there is a kind of a almost like a pressure valves been released right it became apparent Quinn was going to go

right and you could see it in his face I mean you guys are watching the games too right he was just worn out and once he decided that he wasn't going to resign the biggest issue became you know how quickly could you get it done So, like, if they would have gotten a bunch of lousy offers, then they wouldn't have moved them. And then you would have had that fiasco continue for, you know, for months.

So there is, there's some people that are, you know, that are pissed at Quinn for leaving, you know, for pushing his way out. There are some that are pissed at the management for not building a better team around them. Like, I think one of the great fallacies is when you have a really great player, and Quinn is, is that you hear this talk of, oh, they never built a winner around that great player. So that's the same in Vancouver as it is in Edmonton, as it is in Toronto, as it is in Boston with Posternak. Like, it's not that easy. And if you make a mistake building around those players, then you've got to make another deal to fix that mistake. and then now you've made two deals and if that doesn't work out

now you take a big swing to fix them all and then you end up in the ditch and like look a couple years ago it looked like Vancouver was trending to be a really good team when you look in hindsight

Miller had a career year Demko had a career year Besser had 40 goals Quinn Hughes won the north Dakota Joshua had a career year playing with Garland like everything hit and I think everybody probably felt management too that they're on the way

and as it turned out last year it just imploded Ray one of the things that I talked about yesterday was a big part of the reason that they are where they are why all this stuff has gone down over the last year and a half is their goaltender hasn't been healthy and hasn't been in the net long enough or often enough I mean they played a game seven with you know a different goal Sheila like he hasn't been that consistent health-wise he's a great goaltender and number 40 has not been the guy ever since the ink dried on that contract and those are two massive reasons why this team kind of took that step in the negative direction like well i thought i thought peterson ray was going to be challenging mac david for heart trophies i loved his talent that much and to watch him play it is so alarming it shocks me i don't i don't know where that 95 point guy went because he is he's an exceptional player he really is yes and and so i wonder like i look at jonathan uberto and he had that 105 point season and then never quite well not quite hasn't been the same player since for probably a bunch of reasons but it just

hasn't been peterson has been much much better this year but the bar was really low for him. And so he was probably on, before he just got hurt, I think he was probably on like a 70-point pace. I'm with you, they need more than that from him, from his contract, his position on the team. They need more. Now, can he get there?

I don't know. Like, there are games this year he plays and you're like, it's back. Like that looks exactly like he did three years ago. And then other games, it just doesn't. And that, of course, is concerning, right? Because he's the center of, he's your best center by a country mile. Then you get to the goalie, and it's not even close.

When Dempco was healthy, noodles, I always had him in the top seven in the league before he got hurt. I don't know if you did. And then he's been back three games. He's got a 935 save percentage. But it's like a completely different team when he's in the net. Can he be healthy? I'll tell you, if I were the U.S., I would pick him on the Olympic team. He'd be my third goalie.

Because I look at that and I go, if you get into the net and somebody gets hurt, if he's healthy, which he is, I think he's one of their three best goalies. What the hell doesn't matter? if he didn't play last March. Who cares? I think he's that good. Well, I mean, that's an interesting question with, you know, Hellebuck is now back and,

Ander, Swayman, you know, there's so many good American goalies. We're scratching and cloned for goalies. They called noodles. They put noodles in the testing program. Dying up here, exactly. They wouldn't dare do that. Well, you know, the way you describe Patterson, if someone just tuned in while you're doing that,

They would have assumed you're talking about Matthews. Right. You know, it's... What happened there, man? Well, and it's a real debate right now, like how you evaluate it, because, you know, I look at what Boston has done here. Last year, that was, like, world-class retool. You know, and I don't know if this is legit or real or where they're going, and I know

they got a lot of guys breaking loose, Morgan Geeky, at the forefront of that, but they just last year said, all right, we stink, we're awful, we're trading pieces, we're bringing in Prospects, picks, flexibility, we're going to change the way we look and feel. Coach is gone, blah, blah, blah, and look what they've done this year. The Leafs, I don't know, and I don't think they have the stomach for that, you know, even if they're trending in the direction they're currently in. But, you know, how you evaluate Matthews and try to project what he's going to be in the future is difficult. You hope it's a two-year blip like the one Ovechkin had back in the day,

but what if it's not, Ray? Like, how do you handicap that if you're tray-living a company? The one word that's kind of popped into the hockey world describing players is engine. You know, do they have an engine? And Matthew's engine has gone. Like, his work rate is way, if you just watch the game, never mind what's happening. If you just watch the game, his work rate, in my opinion, has decreased over the last year and a bit. You just, I don't think he works as hard away from the puck to put himself in position to shoot the pocket.

Like, that's his, that's his grade A separator's ability, right, is his shot. And if you don't work hard enough to get yourself into position to shoot it, then it's like it's a weapon in your arsenal that's just, it's in the, It's in your kit. It never gets out. And so that to me is the most confounding part of this whole thing. It should be the easiest to fix, but it just hasn't appeared. I have this vision of him way more tenacious, like losing a puck, lifting somebody stick from behind because he skated three hard strides, spinning with the puck, and either making a play or getting a shot.

When's the last time, well, last night, I guess, but how many times does that happen? Not very often. He used to be thought of as like this, you know, top end defensive center as well. At least I felt he won't. Now in his zone, he's got no brakes. He just kind of like roams around and like there's no, there's no stick your nose in it. Not that he's going to run people over that will never be the case. and he doesn't need to.

He's way too good. But I just don't get that part and where it's gone. But this all comes, this started, you know, we started with Buffalo and culture and then we got to Boston. The thing in Boston is you can identify what they wanted to do. The guys they went out and got were all physical and fast. And they now play a much quicker game, a much more physical game. I don't know how talented they are, but holy, they make it hard to play against.

And they've got a game changer, right? In Posternotch, Geeky's, you know, 30 goals last year, signs a huge extension. It seems like he's just hungry for more. And I don't see that same sort of change from last year to this year. I know they lost Barner, but the guys they brought in are bigger and slower. They're not bigger and faster. Macelli's a bust. Yeah.

Yep. you know and so you've like all of a sudden you're you're not quite as talented well without martyr you're not as talented you're not as fast like what are you and and that's why i think they play four or five good games two or three bad games and you know they're kind of that hasn't been identified for them yeah and now they hit the road they're in washington tomorrow they're in dallas a few nights from now it's you know they've had a soft schedule it's not going to get any easier that's for sure um well there you go right you i think you you sparked our spirits now we're now we're all in great moods merry christmas

merry christmas yeah yeah you know that that's me that's something that's always been i've been described as is someone that just uplifts people's spirits absolutely we love it it could be worse it could be uh jarul uh trying to hit off the tea that's true you ever almost kill anyone out of pro am ray No, but I have hit one to like 47 yards straight down the middle, which is just your ego gets beaten up. But that, are you kidding me? By the way, I think O. once told this thing the greatest duff of all time on the PGA tour,

I almost thought, oh, I thought you were the guy that sent me to this. It's Tom Kite. Yes, Tom Kite. Tommy Kite, I mean, this is a professional gold. He snapped hooked it right into someone's pills on the last. left-hand side. We play it all the time. Yeah, it's our favorite.

And the call is great because someone goes, oh, that's a Gerald Ford shot. I don't even know what that means. And Tommy, Tommy, Kite bending his knees, and he goes, oh, he's whincing. It's so great. His catty's mortified.

It's an unbelievable. It's the greatest. Oh, could you imagine going over there? They pick up this dude that got hit. And the catty goes, what club would you like from here, Tom? Right. Exactly.

For about 425 hours still. That's awesome. A lot of it. All right, buddy. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year's. We'll do it again soon. Yeah, Merry Christmas to you guys.

I hope you have a great holiday in there through the new year and we'll run into you somewhere. You got it. There is. Rayford-R-O-L-V-SPN joining soon. The Maple Toyota Hotline, get in and go where adventure takes you in a new 2025 to come from Maple Toyota near Canada's Wonderland. And the Maple Auto Mall is at MapleToyota.com. I'm Dylan Playfair and I'm Tyler Smith we're putting loneliness in the penalty box by talking to some of our favorite athletes about the importance of friendship this is bromance bromance is brought to you by Charm Diamond Centers proudly Canadian owned and operator charm has been part of your love stories and bromances for over 50 years and you can find bromance on the iHeart radio network or wherever you get your podcast