OverDrive - Ferraro on the greatness of McDavid, what makes Bouchard so special, and the impact Marner leaving would have on Matthews

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

ESPN Hockey Analyst on the greatness of Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl, what makes Evan Bouchard so special, what a Stanley Cup would do for McDavid’s legacy, if the Panthers destroying Carolina makes the Leafs look better, and how Mitch Marner leaving could impact Auston Matthews.

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Call 416 457 plan or visit ask Kelvin dot CA Maybe Ray will start tuning us up too. Yeah, I mean we were, you know, putting the car before the horse after game five, these Panthers. But anyway. Yeah, but you know what? You had a good comeback because they proved everybody right. In the end everyone was totally justified. Because they got dominant in game seven too.

So it's like, you know, game six was a reprieve but they gave seven was a it was worse it was for the reason was uh... here's rey for our or he has been a hockey analyst joining us on the maple title hotline tap in a ray i think it's a pressure on right we can't complain about it's probably not yet about everything else and i think that before he was complaining about everything else and us being at the forefront. He was complaining about us! He went on, he went on a, in our group text for the podcast, he went on a, he laid out his whole day, two hour delay,

flight with weather, another hour and a half. They had to go to some other place, they had to stay overnight so I just asked I'm like did you get any extra miles and and Drager asked him could have been avoided if he would have planned better and he was so disappointed that nobody was supporting him so we took the wrath of that because yeah Sharger was he was ready to rock today, man. It was great. He was awesome. Like he was, he was firing on all cylinders.

It was amazing. And listen, he has the luxury of covering, I'd say the two best players in the world. Like I'm curious where you stand on that. McDavid is a foregone conclusion, but I feel like we do this every year, Ray, like with dry, subtle in particular, you know, we do our list in September and it's like, ah, I think I'll put McKinnon there, justified, I get it, or maybe I'll put McCarr

there and then I get to the playoffs and I'm like, no, dry-subtle's too. Like, dry-subtle I think is number two and I think he probably should be. I don't know, like, how you can easily slot any of those guys. Because if you're... When I think of it, it's not just skill and ability, it's... You know, like they're... Like the reason I think McKinnon separates himself is because he's got... He's got a little bit of a killer in him. And Dry Cytl does for sure.

Like I think it's a separating feature for him. I think he's... I don't him. I think he's a... I don't know that I would pick McKinnon in front of him. I don't know that I would. Like, it would be close. There's nobody... Like, even a couple years ago, you were... Or not you guys.

We were discussing, like, would you take Matthews or Dricidal? And for me, it's not... It's not even a conversation anymore it's not you it isn't anymore like you he'll walking around casperi cappan and the key the silly put cold and right now he's as his line makes for team goals this year

and and he comes back to the bench sometimes and i could just see it you if you're that close you know you can read a guy's face or the puck like hits his ankle or should be passed to him and isn't and yet they're about I think this is really admirable about them like they're about the win this year. This is the best way to line up a get him and McDavid together sometimes, he goes out sometimes with Hyman or Perry and like they work around what their lineup is and isn't and they just plow ahead. Like he buries his frustration, he doesn't wear it out on his sleeve as much as he used to. I think he's an amazing player. McDavid's at another

level. Yes. I think he's an amazing player. McDavid's at another level. But like what he did yesterday is, you know, like he takes like a couple of breaks and turns them into like, like a one-way race. Anybody trying to get anywhere near him, he went around Thomas Harley like Harley that his skates on the wrong feet. It was like crazy how fast he was. He then he's got two goals yesterday, right? Does anyone think he's going to get through the whole series and not score? Like no chance. Ray, what do you make of this team?

About a month ago it didn't start well against the LA Kings. LA looked like they were a team to be reckoned with. They couldn't get a save. They didn't look, they looked disjointed. You know, Kane was trying to settle in. Frederick couldn't skate. And you mentioned the guys who, you know, Kaepernick I think was a healthy stretch. It looked like a mismatch. And all of a sudden, you know, a month later, the team looks different.

What do you make of the big transformation? I'm a little stunned, to be honest with you even though they have lost the two games on the world and we probably all reacted because it looks so ugly uh... but they haven't lost at home yet right to l a now they're going to go to pickered in goal and oh my gosh what are they going to do there how's that going to work and then he went six straight games and the the depth

of their team, which was never a strength, carried them through the first two rounds. Like that, again, McDavid had three goals. Somebody had to be scoring, and Kane had four, and Connor Brown has four. They were, you know, Newton Hopkins only had a couple of them. Like the guys that were supposed to score hadn't, but everybody else did. So I was quite surprised. But right now they look every bit like Florida does on the other side. They look like they're just anything they need, they can dial it up. They've been outplayed in this series in one period. And that was the second period yesterday where they ended up tying the period when McDavid got the late goal. Like game one, they gave up five goals, but they were on the power plate. Three were power play

and one was an empty netter. Like I don't even really count that. This has been a almost a dominant series for them. I mean, I know it's 2-1, but Jamie, I can't even really explain why it's so good. But there is at some point, I think we got Eric knowledge, like Knobloch knows what he's doing back there. He adjusts and changes lines and moves people in and out and he's got courage. I mean he's going back and forth and goal kind of like whatever the gut feel is and for two years he's got it all right. Ray, can you break down what you see from this Bouchard out there on the ice? He's a fascinating guy. Like the transition he made from those first couple

games in Los Angeles where we were doing breakdowns and Hayes was just beside him. All of us were. We were like, it's either a, like, yeah, it was a gong show and now he looks like the guy behind him on the bench, Paul Coffee. Like, I love the guy. Like I'm handing him the cash. I love him. Well, okay, so we even go back a little further. How many times this regular season do you watch him and you're like, does he understand? He's got to keep going. And the guys go right past him and you're like, and he just kind of like waves at him and uh you know it doesn't didn't really work that time or whatever it is then he um he he does his thing in the playoffs this is two years in a row where it's like he's at a completely other level like how

does he do that how does he go in and out like that he's clearly very talented for sure but I do think he's got a brain for the game. He's an excellent passer. McDavid and Dreisaitl, I think this is really important. We all know sometimes you don't want certain people on the ice because they can't pass or they can't get you the puck when you need it. McDavid and Dreisaitl want B certain people on the ice because you're like they can't pass or they can't get you the puck when you need it. McDavid and Dryside will want Bouchard on the ice with them. And so he's going to get the cash, he's going to get a big payday. There's no way around it. And I would have said he was like a stat mirage last year until the playoffs and they played like 24 minutes a game and had an amazing playoff and he's done the same this year like it's not

It's not false like it. I just don't understand like how he's gone So far on the outside of what would be good play to this like he's he's a dominant player right now With Ray Ferro and you mentioned McDavid on a different level. Let me fast forward a year from now where he scores the game winner in the Four Nations faceoff that turned into a a much bigger and significant tournament than I think anyone thought he would. Let's say they win the Stanley Cup this year. If they do, he's probably winning the Conn Smythe.

And then he mixes in a goal for Canada next year. I know that's a lot but it's definitely feasible. This time next year how are we looking at his legacy? Like what could McDavid if he gets those achievements what does it do for him in terms of the all-time list? Well it just speeds up him becoming the greatest player of all time, I think. I understand you have to win to be in that Mount Rushmore of players, but again, if his goalie stinks, what's he going to do about it? He can't do anything about that.

If they didn't have... If he went to the Con Smythe again this year and they lose in game seven again, if they get to the finals, what else is he going to do about that? So I have a tough time with the legacy stuff because I understand why winning has to be a part of it, but it's not basketball, right? It's not like one, you know, one player can impact everything about the game. We know it's different, yet I just think, I just don't think there's any way that we will look at him anywhere other than in one of the greatest players of all time. Whether wins or losses or whatever, what you laid out, O'Brien, I think speeds along that discussion.

Yeah, I would agree with that. I think the way I've always looked at winning in terms of these conversations is it shouldn't hurt you if you don't have it, but it should help you if you do, if that makes sense. I think you should look at Gretzky and Orrin Howe and say, you know, whoever you're competing with and say, well, they have them. So you got to you got to, you know, give them credit for that because they they obviously factored into that. I just think I guess what we're saying is once you get a cop, especially in this era with so many more teams, and if you get a gold medal, which he hasn't had the ability to even chase because they haven't done best on best in his career it I think it just opens the door for that like all

of a sudden it's like all right well he's done that he's done this he won a Kahn Smythe when they didn't even win it or when they didn't even win the Cup then you can really have that chat it's like is he better than Gretzky is he better than Lemieux which is pretty incredible when you think about it because that seemed like an impossibility ten years ago and I'm not sure we ever had that chat with Sid like I don't know if we really talked about Crosby as yes he can legitimately pass Gretzky on that list I don't think I don't I don't think we did but you Crosby's a really great

name to add to this discussion because all of his serial winning has just done nothing but impact his legacy along with his great play. Right. All of it back to the World Junior and the two Cups and the Olympic gold and the Golden Goal and you know like whatever he's been in there's not a tournament he's been in that he hasn't won. And that like is that just doesn't work like that. There's got to be something to your legacy because you can be, if you are a serial winner, which of course Sid is. But the number of points, like when we talk about Ovi's volume of goals, like the number is just

like it's mind-boggling and McDavid's gonna get up into that range in the points, in the points somewhere along the line. Because there's that thing you see in McDavid, like that internal like drive and engine and that all those great guys have. There's lots of great players and when you're at that level the ones that have that extra they I don't know they just get to these crazy numbers and I think Connor will I would be stunned if he's not there when it's all said and done. Ray more stunning for you Stuart Skinner's win-loss record and the actual record when he does

win and when he does lose. Or John Klingberg averaging almost 20 minutes a night on a second pairing. What's more stifling for you? I'm going to say Skinner because now he's four and four, the when he had when he now he's four and four but when he had three wins and they were all shutouts and the four losses he gave up 20 goals that's one of my favorite stats that I've seen in a long time like how could that even be like like and they we had a little graph in the game about the wins and losses it was it was comical to look at. So I'm going to say him, but I'd like

to know who Klingberg's surgeon is because he skates so much differently than he did just even a year ago, or a year and a half ago. And so, you know, to get, you know, that's a, those are big procedures that he had done. And they were, they were hoping that he was going to be okay for them. And he's, as you say, he's been way better than that. And just think in either game four or game five, they're going to get Ekholm back. And now they've got that much more depth. Like that, so he's playing, him and Jake Wallman play together. They don't have to change anything Yeah, really they'll drop they'll drop Kulak to nurse and

nurses pair and Stetcher will probably come out and he's done a great job And then they'll put Ekholm with Bouchard because that they always play together and you're like jeez look at look at that defense all of a sudden Yeah, it's it's it's worked out pretty well. It's it's rolling in Edmonton On the other side it was loud in there last yesterday Oh the pop like when McDavid scored on that three on one it was Unbelievable, I don't think the Oilers fans waited to get into the sauce They were into the heroin beer at about noon yesterday in Alberta.

I get back to the hotel. I'm back in Vancouver. I flew home for the day. So I go back to the hotel to change and this guy comes into the elevator and I can see he's got a couple of wobbles to him and then right behind him is his wife and his two daughters and they're young the kids they're like you know five and seven something like that and he's like hey Ferraro we're in this elevator. He's totally lubricated. The wife must be so happy. I love it. She's probably thinking well it's a 1 p.m. start, thank

God, he's gonna actually take it easy here. No chance. No, that's not gonna happen. So it appears as if for the fourth time in the last six years, the Leafs pushed the eventual Cup finalists to seven in the series in which they played them. 2019 against Boston, 21 against the Habs, 22 against Tampa, now this year against Florida. We haven't had you on since, yeah I mean you saw it, the debacle, the game seven debacle, the way they played, the aftermath, now Shana hands out. When you see what Florida's doing at Carolina does it change your impression at all? Where do you stand on the Leafs a week removed from what we witnessed? No it doesn't change it because you can only play who you're playing, right?

And like they have the unfortunate circumstance of being in the same division as those guys. And so that's just the way it is. If you say you weren't and you got through this round and you had to play them in the next round, that's like it's just the way it is. I think we talked enough this year, I thought they were a different team, a better equipped team, and maybe in some ways they were to do well in the playoffs. Unfortunately you can't make the other guys not try. They're better. They're just a they're the best team. Like as a team they are the best. Like they're do they not look I mean a week might tell you a different story but right now they look

unstoppable. They're like a steamroller and so I do think though if you chase what other teams are, it's a race you can never win. Like if you're looking at Florida and saying, we've got to change our team so we can beat Florida. Well, what if you make a bunch of changes and then Florida loses next year somehow or whatever happens, and now you're playing somebody else and you're not equipped to play them? I think you just build the best team you can you put together the most balanced team that you can possibly put together

You hope you're healthy and you run that Because if you're chasing somebody else, you'll never have the same players. You could get someone that looks like Barkov that You know that has the same number of points the same size, but he's not Barkov. Right? Like you can't replicate players. You can kind of get close to them, but if you're chasing them, I think you always lose. You can have a goal about, hey, we want to get closer to this or that in the way we structure our team, it really doesn't I mean it doesn't make me think of the Leafs any different other than it just couldn't quite they had two chances it's not game seven they had two chances really and and they

fell flat on their face at home both times yeah exactly game five you take control again you're up three two and they they didn't do that and then we know what happened in game seven And I'm sure you're not surprised, you know, shanty the shanty and news came down. I think everyone was kind of anticipating that But to your point, you know about chasing Florida here It's it feels like a foregone conclusion Marner's gonna leave, you know, it feels that way I'm not a hundred percent convinced that's gonna happen, but it feels that way I'm not a hundred percent convinced that's gonna happen but it feels that way feels like Tavares is gonna return and yet it's now the Sam Bennett show maybe you got to get Ekblak can you bring Marshand up here like that's kind of what people in Toronto want to see is

basically go pluck from Florida and see if you could do it again next year you know maybe they could get Forsling too yes that would be great and Bob yeah while you're while you're working away at the thing yeah it I think this year You know, maybe they could get Forsling too. Yes, that would be great. And Bob. And Bob. Yeah, and while you're working away at the thing, I think this year is primed to be a like a late June, early July trade-a-thon because there's not a lot of free agents that like Sam Bennett's going to sit there and like I think people need to remember when they're signing them to an eight nine ten million dollar contract whatever he's gonna get he's gonna get in and man I'd want him on my team but

he's not a 40-goal guy and sometimes you're best in the place that you already are like if Sam Bennett comes to a different team is he gonna fit the same way probably but what if he doesn't? What if you're looking for something he's not really able to deliver? So there's very few centers. There's a marginal class, I would say, of free agents. And so I think with so many teams trying to make a step,

make a change, that we're primed to see some really interesting trades this summer. Like I think that's where the action is going to be, not so much the free agents. Of course, Bennett and Eklat are free agents. And if they're not going back there, well, there's going to be two teams that are, or one team, if not, somebody could figure it all out, um, that would be really happy to get them. But they might not be the same players. Like,

that team in Florida to me looks like everybody's slotted exactly where they should be. And that's a rarity. Do you think that could apply to Marner? In other words, he goes somewhere else and it's not the same guy. I mean mean he's been riding with Matthews and Tavares and that power play's stacked. You think there's a chance he looks or feels different somewhere else? Oh I don't see how he wouldn't. I mean the whole circumstance if he goes somewhere else will be different. Right? The external expectations, you know the wherever he goes, it won't be there. Both for him and for the city that he might be in.

I think a lot changes for him. It'll be really weird and really odd for him if he's in a different jersey, but there's probably, if he does decide to go that way or already has decided whatever it is, there'll be a, I think part of it will be that it'll be pretty freeing for somebody that's that good that could make that much of a difference somewhere else. So just piggybacking that, if Marner,

we talk about Marner leaving. I remember having this argument with Steve Koulis years ago on That's Hockey Tonight and I just wanted to apply it here because when Marty St. Louis left Tampa, I remember saying to him, Stephen Stamkos will never get 60 again because Stamkos got an unbelievable passes from St. Louis. How much of a trickle-down effect Marner leaving would have on Matthew's production potentially? Well it depends what they fill it with, right?

Right. Because, don't forget, eventually when Marty left, that opened the door for Kucharoff. Right. And you, in that, I mean in that power play thing, so all of a sudden you got, oh, you got a pretty damn good guy giving them the puck. Like, what if, what if you find somebody that, that fits there? Like maybe he's not the same. Maybe they play a little different style.

Maybe, I don't know. Maybe it's just a change. Like those guys became joined at the hip and in a lot of cases, it's hard to even imagine somebody else being there. And in a lot of cases, it's hard to even imagine somebody else being there, except it happens almost all the time to almost every player. Like very few guys play their whole career or, you know, with the same, with the same line mates or the same D pair. It just doesn't happen.

Even Gretz. Gretz was with Curry forever and then he went to LA and all of a sudden Bernie Nichols had 70 goals. Like somebody else is going to be the beneficiary of that. If Marner goes somewhere else, whoever he's going to play with is going to find the puck on his stick a lot that probably hasn't been used to getting it there. And maybe Matthews, I'd still like to know whatever was going on with him this year because that didn't look right for him. Like when I look at Matthews, I think like he didn't skate the same, he didn't have the same pace to

his game and the numbers weren't the same. Like it just didn't look right. And maybe a change is best for all. Like a new line made, a new look at things, like maybe it is best. But it's hard to walk away from 100 points, but man, eventually you don't win. And if the goal is that they're to win, which Keith Pelley said pretty clearly that's the goal, then at some point there's got to be a change. You can't keep saying or you know so-and-so didn't win for eleven years you know whatever they bring up with eiserman

the team completely changed around him in that part and in this we're talking about the same core of the key and that in my mind that's different yeah exactly it wasn't for guys with eyes and it was just him you know for the most part they were back with he came in they were and

but man they got good but they don't really have a path by the end they were really really good and i tell you one thing about mcdavid that makes no that doesn't matter to anything that he does but i in edmonton you literally stay i stand on the bench let me guess it doesn't matter to anything that he does. But I, in Edmonton, you literally stay, I stand on the bench. Let me guess. He doesn't tape a stick. No, no. Is this when the guys run on the ice.

Okay. Like some of the guys, they, they run out there. Everybody's excited, right? The crowds go in the buildings off and they come out and they clunk like horses when they're, when they're running out, He comes across there, like he's just, he runs, I can hear him coming, it's like he's gliding and his feet are moving. He's still running to get out on the ice. I marvel at it every time he comes out. I'm like, even doing this,

he looks different than everybody else. Mm-hmm. It's astounding. And then he takes two laps in like three seconds and you're like, oh, look at that. Yeah. It is scary, man, to see him running out so he's got speed already and then he does those laps. You look really fired up there, Ray. We see you right now with your hand on your hip.

Hand on the hip? Yeah. What was going on there? Yeah, were you live at that point or were they in commercial because you're just sitting there? What was I doing? Was I bored? Yeah, you got your hand on your hip and you're just leaning up against the boards. Yeah, what is going on there? It was right at the beginning when they were doing that, Ray, shooting out on the ice and you were like, I better get the hell out of here. There's no room and my headset cables about two and a half feet so there's nowhere to go. Like there's literally in Dallas they've got like they've got one guy that does that closes the door, another guy that puts this safety bar there, somebody that helps that big star get up and

know so you can't like I can't even stand in my place while they're doing the anthem. So the other day I'm standing on the Edmonton bench and my headset's on boards. And I said to that Olivier Rodrigue, you stand in there, I go, hey, if somebody starts talking, just pick it up and answer them. And he looked at me, he goes, what? I go, oh yeah, just start talking. It'll be a great start to your career. Outstanding.

That is great. Yeah, that's a special place to be though, to watch those guys motor to your career. That is great yeah that's a special place to be though to watch those guys motor around man that is for sure. It is the best. All right Ray we'll leave it there man enjoy the rest of the series we'll do it again soon. You betcha this is uh I'm now at four games max and then that's the uh that's the end of ESPN's portion so okay I got my clubs just got to the front of my garage. They are calling your name. It's just a matter of time. Enjoy. Yeah. All right, buddy. Okay guys. Be well. Great to talk to you. There he is, Ray Ferraro, of ESPN,

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