OverDrive - Griffin on the Blue Jays' depth overview, Schneider's coaching views and Yesavage set for larger role

Episode Date: August 11, 2025

GriffsThePitch.com Columnist Richard Griffin joined OverDrive to discuss the Blue Jays' win against the Dodgers, Mason Fluharty's clutch performance, John Schneider's coaching mindset, Trey Yesavage's jump to triple-A, a six-man rotation, the importance to a good clubhouse and more.

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and it's great to talk to Kagan and not be looking at him. Come on. Don't pretend you haven't had the TV up like you missed me, Griff. It's good to hear your voice, though. And it's been a whole week. They're probably harder in. So without him, I would be completely wrong. Well, we were going to put some popcorn in his beard just to make it look official, but he wouldn't have any part of that.

This is about as clean as I get, Daddy. All this TV stuff is making me a little cleaner than I normally look. Rich, we've been talking a lot about the game last night there, and the decision, I guess, to put Mason Flew Hardy out there. Like, how, what went through your mind in that situation when you saw Flew Hardy trotting out there,

game on the line, O'Tonnie, and the batters? box. Walk us through, I went through your brain there. Well, it's always, as a manager, it's always up to who you think is the best option at that point in time. It doesn't matter how many pitches have been thrown. It's who's the best

option. And at that point, having thrown 23 balls and 10 strikes, the best option at that point was Mason Flew Hardy, Lefty, against one of the best, or against the best player in baseball. But,

I wasn't expecting much. I wasn't expecting that. And it would have been a completely different story because on a three-two count, Otani, of course, was being aggressive. He wanted to win the ball game. He is the best player in baseball. And he swung at a pitch down and away.

And if he had taken that pitch, it would have been balls for. The game would have been tied again. And it would have been a whole different ballgame and people would have been complaining about the move and about Mason Flew Hardy being in that spot. Griff, that's another one of those moves that just seems to have worked out for the Jays. John Schneider, it seems like, has had a lot of those.

Last year, the year before, if he'd make that move, I'd bet Shoyotani would hit one 500 feet, but it seems like everything they do lately is working out. And you have, Griff, you've covered a couple more years of baseball and a couple more managers than me, I believe, when I do the math. And being around John Schneider, as much as you have, have you noticed, like, I have kind of some change and growth in Schneider this year? and what stood out about you and his role in this success? Yeah, I've actually, I counted it up and I've worked with or covered 19 major league managers.

And like I told Gibby one time, you're not the worst I've ever covered and you're not the best. That's about what I can say for Snyder. But I think I heard you earlier talking about his growth as a manager and his ability to, combine all the analytics and all the suggestions from the front office with instinct and a personal feel. And I think that's where he's improved the most. You know, when you see a guy out there like your closer out there and he's not throwing strikes, the numbers may say leave him in because he may find the strikes zone at any time,

but the new John Schneider says, I'm going out there, I'm going to take him out and let the chips fall where they may. He has developed since the debacle in Minnesota with Jose Burrios, there's no doubt. I think that was a starting point for his renaissance into what he's become. I think definitely he's top three in manager of the year, and you guys suggest number one. I think if the Js hang on and are the best team in the American League or win the division, than he would win that award. You're talking about him being more decisive,

but one of the intriguing things for me, and I'd like your take on it is this roster has more flexibility than I've seen in a long time, and he's able to guide it properly. Well, the flexibility that you're talking about, Catman, is the fact that in the past, their bench has been so terrible that, you know, you could have guys

that are able to play different positions, but you don't want them in any game at any time. And this bench is deeper. This bench has more talent. You know, Miles Straw was a revelation. Nathan Lucas is a revelation. And they have guys that are able to fill in and play different positions, which means late in the game,

they can make John Schneider look like a genius with his manipulation of positions and stuff. And I think by and large, this is the best bench he's ever had. This is the best bench I can remember in years, and it's because they're spending a lot of money. They have $75.6 million on the IL right now. And like there are some years, even in the 21st century, where that is more than what the payroll was for the Blue Jays. So they are spending more money. They have more players.

They have more versatility. And I'm sure it's a lot more fun in that dugout for John Schneider to manage. was a lot of guys who performing, as you noticed, and as you mentioned here, and there's a couple of players, Jimenez, Springer, possibly Santander, some guys who are going to come up pretty soon, and there's going to have to be some sort of roster crunch. Like, how difficult is that decision going to be for who gets kind of squeezed out of this lineup? Well, I think it would have been, Michael,

I think it would have been more difficult prior to the Dodgers series. I think there was a certain euphoria going into, Chavez Ravine that disappeared in a hurry after two games. And Kagan mentioned it earlier, the fact that these guys could push Yamamoto back and still come in with a guy, Tyler Glasnow, who's an all-star and should have won a Cy Young by now if he wasn't injured all the time. But I think that really that this team in L.A. prove something to both sides.

Those who were overly optimistic and those who were overly pessimistic and those who were overly pessimistic. It was a necessary two out of three loss. And I think that the negative side now realizes that you can't just go with the guys that are there now. Anytime you have Buddy Kennedy starting against the World Series champions at third base, then you know you've got to make some moves. And those are coming up. It won't be that hard.

Things have a tendency to take care of themselves. And especially on the pitching side. I mean, you guys mentioned Tray Savage earlier. I compare that to David Price in his rookie year of 2008 when the Camp of Bay Rays went to the World Series, and he was called up late in the season, had made his way through their minor league system, and was a key part of the bullpen pitching innings in the playoffs,

and ended up being a really good starter in the major leagues. But that was his debut in the majors. is in a role with a winning team, and maybe I Savage could be that guy in September and October. Griff, I like that, the David Price example that you're mentioning. And in Toronto, I try to think back, I guess 2014 Aaron Sanchez, but he was on a pitch inning limit when he debuted in the bullpen late that year, moved into the rotation.

What do you think, Griff, down the stretch here, Trey Yassavage? He's had an incredible year in the minor leagues, just about as good as any pitcher in this whole organization. And I said earlier that it comes down to whether he is, one of the 13 best pitchers on this team? Do you think he is? I think that they have to go to a six-man rotation. I think that Jose Barrios is the key, and when I ran it by him, he had a big smile.

I said you'd get to your 32 starts, which he's done, of course, for six consecutive years. And when he heard that, his face lit up. He says that extra rest is always good in the final two months. And so I think that the key that you have is coming up is, You need a guy. You can't, you could have Eric Lauer go into that role and be a two or three inning guy down the stretch in September. But you want a guy, you want that six-man rotation to me because you're rewarding your six best pitchers

and you're leaving them some innings to go into October because October is the ultimate goal, of course. And like, your savage could be that guy who, when you get down near the end of a game, if you're going to extra innings, you have him ready to go, and he can eat up multiple innings. Plus he could pitch three middle innings like Lauer came out after three on Sunday. He could then eat up two or three innings and be really overpowering really good in a short burst. And I think that the way you Savage would come up as that extra pitcher in September that they're allowed to add when the rosters expand and if the team is going with a six-man rotation.

Griff, an hour ago, Eric Hosmer stopped by and suggested that Scher do some short work. Where are you in what his role would be? I think Scher deserves to respect. I think within that clubhouse, if you take Scher or Shane Bieber out of a starting role, you might lose a couple of people in that clubhouse. I think that those guys need to be in the rotation. And as Kegan pointed out earlier, it's important to have a left-hander, and that would be Eric Lauer.

So I think they're headed in the right direction. And, you know, you look at that Dodger series, and I talk about the importance of the Dodgers series to what they're trying to do. I think you see Chris Bassett, you see Eric Lauer, and these guys always are going to say, just give me the ball every five days when, in fact, they're better off doing it every six days.

And I've done a mock-up of the final 43 games, and there's 28 of the 37 games if you go to a six-man that are going to be on the sixth day exactly and others that there might be a few a little longer than that but due to off days but that's a welcome healing for those guys who have gone through 30-some starts and you know close to 200 image

if I knew you'd have it mapped out you've always been my six-man rotation guy I knew you had that math done already Yeah, I said it to Pete and to John Schneider already And usually when I send it to them I hear back right away with some sarcastic comment There's been silence this time So I may have nailed it You know what? I've heard a couple of those comments over the years

So this might be the year And that'll be one of the opening scenes We'll have the text of your message to Pete and Schneid's Open in the start of the World Series documentary there I love it Oh, I thought they were already made the movie out of your book. I think I kept the movie

rights. But Griff, when you talk about the, and I agree with you, the Scherzer factor, along with Bassett, you're risking or you're at least dealing with a clubhouse there. And we were talking to Hosmer about that as well, the value of the clubhouse. And I always say, Griff, that most years

when I'm told about a good clubhouse or a great tight-knit group, a lot of the time it's fluff. And we hear about it a lot, every spring training. I feel like this group is the best one that I've around in my nine or ten years. I'm curious what your experience is around with them. And I read what you wrote on grips, the pitch.com, about the comparison. I think the 94 expos you had with them as well. I'm interested to hear about your impressions and that

comparison that you made. Yeah, I think that a lot of times it's a mistake in, in terms of which came first, winning or the chemistry in the clubhouse. And, you know, even at the start of this year, the chemistry in the Blue Jays Clubhouse wasn't. what it is now or what it has developed into. And in terms of the 94, 94 expos, which is, of course, today is the day that the strike hit in 1994, I remember being in the Pittsburgh Clubhouse and the Pirates Clubhouse and they were giving a talk about how stay ready because this is going to be a short strike. We're coming back.

We're going to win the World Series. That was Philippe Bayalue and Kevin Malone, the GM, and the rest is history. It didn't happen. But that clubhouse, because everyone contributed, it was a bunch of young guys and none of them were the leader on the field, but they were all leaders in the clubhouse. And that feeling is what I felt was being replicated in this clubhouse. And it's good to see, it's great to see, it's great in that clubhouse. But Eric Hosmer, to me, was the heart and soul of that Kansas City clubhouse. I remember covering the 2014 and 2015 World Series.

2014, after they lost in the lobby of the hotel up on the hill in Kansas City, he put together a group of seven or eight of his teammates, and they went out downtown for a couple of beers at the end of it, and then, of course, they won the next year. So I think that he was the leader of that clubhouse, so he knows what he's talking about, and I've always admired him for that. He was my favorite player in that clubhouse.

And I think that this one has the same feel as that and the 94 Expos. Griff, we're 11 days removed from the MLB trade deadline. What are your early impressions on the acquisitions of Varland, Ty France, and Sir Anthony Dominguez to this point? Well, it's, I mean, you look at, and a lot of the bullpen acquisitions, you look at the Yankees, and they had those four guys that were all listed as closures. They went in and coughed up nine runs in three and a third innings or something.

So, I mean, it doesn't always work out right away. The guy I'm worried about is Sir Anthony Dominguez. I think that Louis Varland can be the setup guy if Jimmy Garcia doesn't come back. Concerned about the strike throwing of Brandon Little, the strike throwing of Yariol Rodriguez. There's a lot of work to be done in that bullpen. They've added a couple of key players to that. And, of course, Shane Bieber could turn out to be the wild card.

I mean, you play roulette over blackjack because the return is so much bigger if you win. And so Shane Bieber is like roulette. You know, they can win bigger, lose quickly, and we'll only see in October. So let's get to Hoffman. I mean, I don't want to sort of, I don't want to swerve here. Just what are your thoughts on Hoffman and how do you think this plays out? Well, you've got to stick with your closure. You're paying him for three years.

He's had mostly great outings. This was an unbelievably bad outing. I don't know how anyone in history could reason that you get two outs, walk five guys, and don't give up any runs. I mean, that's virtually possible mathematically. And then he got a had a blown save and a win. And, like, you're going, holy mackle, this is the closer that's got to lead them. And if he's out of gas, they're in trouble because there's really no one else to step up and do that.

He's had some incredible performances. He's a gamer. He wants to go more than one inning. And that's very rare in this day and age. I think they stick with him. I think that was a blip. I think what they need to do is have him throw the day before and off days so that he's not on six days rest like he was this time. And I looked it up and on four days or more of rest, his record

in the last month has been terrible. So that's what you need to do. Make sure he's getting regular work. And if it's before and off day, make sure he pitches an inning. Just going to slide a stat in before Kagan asked you the next question. Jeff Hopman, first pitcher since 1901 to surrender at least five walks and lost in an inning of work and get credited with a victory with a win. Kegan, I didn't see that one. Amazing. Amazing. Griffin. When you look down the stretch here, Jeff Hoffman has thrown a ton of appearances here. He's up towards the top of the league. And Louis Varland's up near the top of the league. I think only four relievers have made more appearances than him. But there's going to come a day in September where the Blue Jays need a different closer, another closer when Hoffman's gassed. Who do you like in that spot? Do you like Jarrell Rodriguez in that spot? Where do you go if you are the skipper coming out of the dugout? I was with the team The Expos where Mike Marshall

threw 108 games and 208 innings in relief Griff I'm young and soft though You know it's gone soft But Asking that question By the time you get to the playoffs If it's not Hoffman

I go with Louis Varlane Or Tray Savage Because of the dynamic stuff that he is purported to have. I know you saw him at spring training, but he's only gotten better, and I think that that would be a difference maker going to the postseason or in the postseason.

The Savage idea, I love. I mean, he's such a wild card for this team, but the upside when you compare him, because you're not comparing him to Hoffman, yet you're comparing him to whoever the middle reliever is that you'd be replacing. And I think the upside of you savage, I'm coming around on the idea.

I don't know if I'm all the way there, but the upside is just incredible. Yeah, the other thing about the six-man rotation is who do you want to hand the ball to the sixth starter or the eighth reliever? You know, if you cut down to seven relievers, you still want that sixth starter. You had seven pitchers in the game in the Dodgers game on Sunday. So, I mean, you really very rarely need that many pitchers. and the rest and the spreading out of the starting rotation will give you more innings than your eighth reliever is going to throw. So I think there's no downside to expanding the rotation

and there's no downside to rolling the dice with a guy like you savage. Griff, thanks very much. Appreciate it. Okay, guys, any time. See you tomorrow. All right, Griff. Richard Griffin, griff's the pitch.com. The biggest songs in the world. You've heard them countless times. Now, learn the details of how they came to be.

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