OverDrive - Griffin on the Blue Jays striking out on Guerrero Jr., his elevated value and the management under the spotlight

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

GriffsThePitch.com and Former Toronto Star Columnist Richard Griffin joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the Blue Jays, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. failing to reach an extension, his value in the league, Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins'' comments on the outlook of the deal, the management perspective of Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins, the impact for Bo Bichette's deal and more.

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K-N-O-W-M-O-R-E.CA. A message from the Ontario English Catholic Teachers Association. Here he is from griffsthepitch.com. Our good friend Richard Griffin. Are you feeling optimistic about everything working out here for Vladie and the Blue Jays over the next 8 to 12 months? What's up, boys? I just want to know from Hayes what did five was in the dominican when you were down there with regard to black how a lot of laws they'll have a lot of down there they're saying i've got a got a big for me to make sure that he gets paid

hundred percent supporting him down there to me most corporations most sports teams announce their bad news on a Friday at five o'clock so nobody pays attention. The only thing on the table this week was Four Nations face-off and this is like streaking a croquet match. I mean nobody has got anywhere else to look except this disaster that's happening within the Blue Jays organization and one of the major sports in the city and the country.

Yeah, it's such a good point. I guess, Vlad, he was the one that established this as the deadline, yet it's day one, all three parties come out, Vlad starts. It's a miserable way to start. It's just a horrible way to start. Vlad starts, then Ross comes out, then Mark comes out. Vlad said, hey, they weren't close. Ross doesn't want to get into the word close mark doesn't believe in the word close so there's you know a little bit of that

going on but you're right in terms of a day one kind of vibe I'm not have you seen anything like this like it's not the same as Bautista with the stocks and his price and his value because Jose was at a different place in his career and the team was in a different place like how would you compare contrast this Vlad scenario to anything else you've seen with the club in the past well the bottom line is that they're not going to be able to sign Vlad Guerrero jr. unless he becomes the third highest total value contract in baseball everyone's saying he's not the third best player, but circumstances, you guys know that,

circumstances dictate what the market will bear at a certain point in time. So I think what needs to happen for the Blue Jays and for Vlad is that they both save face and that the Blue Jays use take liberal use of deferrals so that Vlad can boast about his total value in current dollars and the Jays can say well we didn't give in because we've got him behind Otani and Soto and we've got him ahead of Trout and Mookie Betts. And so both sides are winners.

Otherwise, I don't see anything happening. And to me, that would not constitute when Vlad says, I'm not gonna negotiate past the first day, but if the Jays go, okay, we'll give you what you're asking for, but a bunch of it has to be deferred. And we're hearing that deferrals are not in Vlad's vocabulary at this time but if both sides want to win that's the only way to go about it. So Griff in the day and age where a lot of superstar players

with their own organization that drafted developed get paid why did the Blue Jays and regardless of what the money is why did the Blue Jays, and regardless of what the money is, why did the Blue Jays decide not to pay Vlad this money? And that's a perfect point, O'Doug. I mean, like, they have 10 years behind them. It was July 2nd, 2015 when Vlad signed, so no other organization has that 10 years plus the next 15, so 25 years of lad, you can average that

down. You can logically say to yourself, well, we're only paying them 23 to 25 million over the 20 year. We're rewarding them for what he's done for us. There's no other organization that can say that. No other organization can say we're paying him for what he's done in the past, we're rewarding him. They're paying him for the future. And those are when you get in trouble with big dollar contracts like Anthony Rendon with the Angels and guys like that. But I think that the stumbling block here has been Mark Shapiro.

I don't think Shapiro is that high. He said at the end of the season on November the 4th and we weren't tweaked at that point maybe it was the 6th of November that he's not a generational player. What chief executive of the sports team says that about their own best player unless there should be some antenna going up and go uh-oh this is not a good sign for signing him long term. And I believe that what needs to happen is for Ed Rogers and ownership to step up and go, okay, Mark, you've had your fun. We need this guy.

You, you forced us to build a big stadium a pleasure palace for 300 million dollars and now you're telling us that our best player isn't going to be there for the next 10 years like get over it this guy is our best player one of the best players in the game we signed and developed him let's go get him give him what he wants let's negotiate somehow and both sides will be winners and we'll be able to put people in that ballpark. Otherwise, you'll be able to fire a cannon through it by August. So Griff, what about the PR about all of this?

I mean, just the way it was handled, the way the comments of define close, this happening on day one. Is this not been a little bit of a recipe for disaster just based on how this is all unfolded and even the messaging? Absolutely, there's a ripple effect at three levels with the fans in the clubhouse and with ownership. And they held that press conference with those three guys

right outside the doors of the clubhouse in Dunedin at The player development complex so don't think that it didn't immediately go back and resonate throughout that clubhouse But guys like Anthony Santander who believed and I believe that's a great addition for this team but For him to believe that he was going to be playing his five years and beyond with Vlad and then Bo thinking, if Vlad can't sign, what hope is there for me? I'm gone. Just the ripple effect through that clubhouse in terms of the question of PR, I think it was brutal. I think it was horrible and they need to

Rectify that before opening day because if Vlad has a great year he's gone Because there will be bitters out there if he has a bad year Then the Jays are gonna go well maybe our offer was a little too much because that's three out of four bad years for Vlad and you know, that's the risk he's taking. But in terms of Ross Atkins saying, define close, just tells me that I don't want to be playing horseshoes or hand grenades with Ross. Yeah, exactly.

Griff, what do you think's more likely to happen? Vlad, he goes in place somewhere else, and people look back and say, and he's fantastic and he's one of the best players in the game and people are going to look back at the Jays front office and say, what a bunch of dummies, or is he going to go somewhere else and kind of stumble a little bit and everyone's going to say, thank God they didn't give him that money. Out of those two scenarios, what would you say would be more likely? Well, I think despite the fact that, you know, he looks like everyone's uncle in terms of

body, I think he plays every day. He plays 150 to 160 games. He's going to play every day for somebody. I think he's figuring it out. I mean, when you look at the fact that he's the second youngest player on the 26-man Jay's roster projected heading into opening day, and all that he's accomplished at age 25, and then everybody's going gaga over David Schneider and Alejandro Kirk and those guys that are older than Vlad. I think that it's a big mistake. My personal belief, and you guys know that I'm like Pollyanna at times, I think that they will find a way at some point

and it won't be, if he makes it through the season and goes into the off season, he's gone. But if something happens, and when he said I'm not shutting the door, I think that was a key for them to not jump on, but to to be optimistic about if they can be creative in terms of putting together a contract that makes both sides happy. Do you truly believe that he wants to be a blue jay for life?

I spent four years with the JSPR department. I spent and that includes his rookie year in 2019 when he first came down the hall wearing his dad's jersey on the first day that he was in the major leagues. And I have seen him yes, I think he wants to be here he's comfortable here, he's got a huge comfort level which

if they can be creative and sort of appeal to his, like I'm not a loser, we're not a loser side, I think they can get it done. But I do believe in answering the question that he does want to be here. Griff you talked about shooting a cannon through the Rogers Center and you know the fans being pissed and nobody's showing up like what is it gonna be like for that management team like if they come back from Dunedin like they are going to be so mad with them how like you just mentioned you were in the PR like how what's it gonna be like for them coming back into that building and everyone hating their guts? Yeah, I think they'll be very defensive. I think we'll have, I mean there's fewer

availabilities for the GM and president than any front office I've seen. I think that already Ross looked disheveled and unhappy when he gave his press briefing. It's gonna get nothing but worse. And I wouldn't be surprised, especially, here's a bold take that if Ed Rogers steps in like Steve Cohen and takes control and says, we gotta sign this guy

I think that both the president and GM Might be gone by the start of the 2026 season yeah, well with Richard Griffin that would that's what I'm wondering here because Ever rot like Cohen has changed the game in many ways. And you look at the Soto negotiation, it was just pay him whatever, you have to pay him to win. And the Pete Alonso stuff, no one was asking what the GM thinks. Nobody.

Like, no one was wondering how the GM feels. It was go ask Steve Cohen, and he'll tell you what's happening and what's going to happen. When I was with the Expos, when I was with the expos, when I was with the expose and Charles Bronfman was the individual owner, he had a little bit of a Steve Cohen vibe to him and that he was the owner. He made some key decisions. He left a lot of stuff up to his front office,

but the reason that Charles Bronfman in 1989 left the game is because ownership was going too corporate. So all his friends in the business, all his other owner friends were no longer there and he left. And Steve Cohen might be swinging it back in that direction. But you know, right now he's a lone ranger in that regard, really. And the Jays need to have someone step up from their front office

and say this is enough you made us build a brand new stadium within a stadium and now you don't want to have a you don't want to allow us to fill it because of your ego on this. That's what it feels like and listen like you said maybe there's hope that they can rectify all this and you know you find a way to get pen to paper and body sticks around and he's a jay for life and but they're there there just can't be any loser in this negotiation and that's the only way i'll get done it

if he becomes the third highest paid player total value in major league history and the blue jays are able to manipulate the deferrals so that it sort of they can boast that it's down in the low fours you know I mean that's the only way I see it getting done. All right Griff we'll leave it there what a way to start spring training we'll see what happens the rest of the way. Thank you for doing this. I love hearing your guys views on this every day so keep it up boys. I appreciate it. Thank you

There is Richard Griffin our good friend from grips the pitch comm This February I her radio celebrates black history month By amplifying the voices that define black excellence Culture curated playlists celebrating iconic black artists, to powerful podcasts. My grandmother marched with Martin Luther King. And Black History Month Radio. We're shining a light on the music, stories, and culture that inspire us all. Black history is our history. Celebrate with us. Listen on the free IHAR Radio app.