OverDrive - Johnson on Auston Matthews' injury management, Patrik Laine's 'unnecessary' comments and expectations for Canada at the World Juniors

Episode Date: December 24, 2024

TSN NHL Analyst, Mike Johnson joins OverDrive to chat about If the Maple Leafs can survive without Auston Matthews, Matthews' injury management, how John Tavares continues to exceed expectations, Patrik Laine's 'unnecessary' comments and expectations for Canada at the World Juniors.

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The smarter way to book travel. Let's bring MJ and get Johnny's thoughts on this one. Mike Johnson, our TSN hockey analyst. Johnny, we're just talking about the declining numbers in the NBA specifically, and we were kind of having a discussion of whether or not it was, you know, which to you, I guess, has been a bigger hindrance for the lack of viewership, whether it's all pro sports.

You look at baseball numbers are down, too. Analytics or player empowerment? What do you think is kind of playing more of a role of a deterrence for people? I guess analytics seems like a... I understand NBA, corner threes, too many threes. I get all that.

But, you know, the advancement of the game with strategy because things make more sense, like, that seems like a good idea. And that's something that fans should get behind. I think it's – and it's not even player empowerment. I mean, I think – where's the conversation? Okay, so if guys are physically incapable of playing the schedule that they're being asked to play, is there something wrong with the schedule? Are're being asked to play? Is there something wrong with the schedule? Are they being asked to play too many times, four and five? Is that not

feasible long-term on the health of their bodies? I wonder if that's it more than players empowered to say, hey, my body doesn't feel right, or I got to protect my knees, back, whatever, so I'm not going to play these games with the blessing of the team. It doesn't seem like the teams are largely fighting this. They're like, yeah, okay, whatever. We just need you to be healthy for the playoffs. And I think that's a big message issue where the regular season doesn't really seem to matter because the participation of the best players

is not symbolic of it mattering. They just kind of pick and choose when they are healthy enough to go, when it makes sense for them to go, and then just worry about what happens in the playoffs. And the last thing is, like,

I think the LeBron Golden State, can I just, the last decade, let's say, before the last couple years, before COVID, and, like,

that was a compelling theater, LeBron switching teams and Golden State a bit of a dynasty and Steph Curry, certainly lots of threes, but not so much, you know, dominating the conversation. And, and Steph Curry, certainly lots of threes, but not so much dominating

the conversation. And coming out of COVID, if you're a sports fan, you love Jokic, but is he captivating the non-sports fan? Shea Gills Alexander, is he captivating Oklahoma City? They haven't turned the page and

found a new book with the new generation of teams and players uh maybe it's the next this year but um i think they're sort of caught up in like boy it was really fun it was lebron and golden state and it's not as fun now because we don't know we don't care about the the best teams involved yeah and that's i think that's probably the issue is there's a lot of problems with why the nba has kind of gone uh gone down the wayside but hey things looking pretty good in the nhl things are looking good out on the ice and uh the you know the first little bit of the season is now done right the christmas holiday break johnny and you know i want to get

your thoughts you know you look at the team the the maple leaves at the holiday break and they're 21 12 and 2 which is a pretty good record but you I know as well as you do, because I know you look into the analytics, look at the numbers. Overall, how do you feel the Leafs have played in the first 34 games of the season? So you can't separate the conversation, but I think what you're trying to do is separate the goaltenders from the conversation, which you can't really do. They're part of the team. They're part of the success. They're part of the success.

And they have been exceptional. Incredibly good. So that's been A+++. As far as the team defensively, they're good. They're kind of a top 7-8 team defensively as far as high danger chances, the stuff they give up in the slot, the rush chance against. They've really made huge strides in that.

Where I think the concern is, is the balance between the defensive focus and the offensive creativity. They've struggled to find it. Even last week, where they won a couple games, they didn't feel like they really were playing well. They maybe tilted too much back to the offense and the defense went by the wayside.

They're trying to find that right mix. And so much of that AB, I hate to throw one guy, but you give me a healthy, like completely healthy Austin Matthews. 100% healthy. And watch what he would do to a team that is structured with good

goaltending and good players playing well. Willie's been amazing. Mitch has been amazing. JT's been amazing. And put the best player, one of the top five players in the world on the team, and watch what their 5-on-5 offense looks like. I think that that alone would swing it largely in a big way. I mean, we talked about it a couple weeks ago.

The declining goals four per game by the Leafs is largely attributed to Austin Matthews' decline in his individual goals per game so that i think is the biggest question mark i think the leaps would generally be happy given what they faced given the fact that austin hasn't really been healthy they'd be happy with where they're at but the bigger question becomes will he ever be healthy this year i i have no idea what the answer is i mean he took a lot of time off he didn't get healthy he went to germany he didn't get healthy he took a cross check which albeit, would not usually knock a guy out of the lineup. It's just part of playing hockey. And he took some time off for it, understandably.

If he can't get healthy, the outlook for the team in the postseason and a long, deep run changes drastically compared to if somehow he gets back to the way he was playing last year. changes drastically compared to if somehow he gets back to the way he was playing last year. Well, that's the curious thing to me, MJ, is the whole injury management here. When you think about the fact that he spends most of the month of November out of the lineup, we find out he's gone off to Munich to seek the elusive fountain of youth that seems to reside in Munich, whatever it may be, some extract of some animal blood that we don't even want to know about. And I'm sure that the NHL would rather not know either.

And yet he comes back for 11 games. He's got three goals in his first three games back. Then he gets three goals in his next eight, and suddenly he's back out of the lineup, not looking anywhere near like the world-class player that we know he can be. Do you wonder why they brought him back? In retrospect, in hindsight it's 2020, but do you wonder why they brought him back for those 11 games

if he just wasn't going to be the guy that they need him to be? 100%, but I go further than that, Seth. Why would he start the season? If he was not healthy, why would he even bother playing? And I wonder if the Leafs genuinely, because their behavior suggests they did, if they genuinely believed that he would be able to improve while playing, like they knew that this was something that was bothering him since the summer. So if he came into camp and he wasn't quite right,

and it's his first year as the captain and new coach, I get why he would want to play, and I get why they would want him in the lineup. But I wonder if they just believed he'd be able to get healthy, and he wasn't able to. And then when he came back from Germany, they probably believed, again, he will be able to get healthy, and he wasn't able to.

And so now, to me, it's like, if I was running the Leafs, I would not, without knowing what's wrong with them, I have no idea. But if it is something that is able to be healed with time, I don't know if I'd see Austin Matthews again into the playoffs. Like, I would just, like, just whatever.

You need three months? Then take the three months, because it's more important for you to get healthy than it is for the extra six or eight points you might give us over the course of the season. A little Mark Stone action? Is that what you're saying here, Johnny? A little Marky Stone? Oh, think of all the money! Think of all the money! I haven't even thought about the $14 million you could go spend on someone else.

Absolutely. Think about loading up the Fords with that group if you were able to save the money. But I'm not going down the road, but I'm with you. If he's not healthy and he can't stay healthy while playing, then let him get healthy while not playing. And the only concern is if it's something, whatever it is, that won't get healthy by April. I don't know, but given how long it's taken, it's sort of a question that you have to ask. but given how long it's given how long it's taken it's sort of a question that you have to ask well let's let's think a little bit positively moving forward here when it comes to the maple east because although yes that's been a bit of a negative storyline throughout the last few couple of days here specifically a really good storyline this season i feel like it's been

i don't know underappreciated has been john tavaris in the season that he's been having. 17 goals, he's on pace for a point per game, 34-34. And I mean, he's 34 years old. How much is he really exceeding expectations for you at this point on year seven of that deal? Well, that's just it, right? Because the conversation was sort of by everyone. He's amazing, he's amazing, he's amazing. Year six and seven, he probably won't be quite as good. And then that was okay. You're willing to accept that risk. And here he is. Last year, he wasn't as productive by his standards, the five-on-five specifically.

But this year, he's been dynamite. I mean, if you can get 30 goals and somewhere north of 70 points from John Tavares while playing second-line center and on the power play, that is foul money. I don't care about the contract anymore. That is absolutely wildly exceeding expectations for him and for the Leafs. So good on him.

I mean, he is a professional. He is committed to trying to stay good and relevant, and he works on his skating, and he works on his stride. He works on his craft. He's been great. That record he set yesterday, that's the fifth guy in NHL history to score 200 goals with two different franchises.

Gretz and Metz and Lanny McDonald and Keith Kachuk and Jim Tavares is, what, 28 goals short of 500? You start looking at his resume, he's not far off from being a Hall of Famer. He plays four more years, let's say, and gets

200 more points. He's going to be up by 1,300. He's going to have close to 600 goals. Whether he wins the Cup or not, his international resume is loaded. He's amazing. He's been a real positive story for them. There's been lots of positive stories.

I think the challenge is maybe they're not as exciting. They don't look as good. They don't look as fun. And I think people see that and are like, well, maybe they're not quite as good because they don't dazzle you the same way. They grind you in a different way. And grinding can be tiring, but it can be effective. It can be.

And just really quick, I want to jump off your point about Tavares and the season that he's having, like playing the way that he is and under Craig Berube, it seems like a really good fit. Like how much longer do you think he's able to keep up this level of play? Like last year we're thinking, oh, this guy might have to go down to three C,

maybe move him out to the wing, but he's excelling right now with Berube. Can he do that moving forward? Like we talk about bringing this guy back on a contract potentially. Well, how much longer can he be an effective player at this level? Maybe last year, this year,

they tried Nylander again at camp at two C, right? That was because they wanted Tavares to go to three. So, you know, it's something on the docket, but I think, and you make a very good point.

And Craig Berube's offense has gone from the Sheldon Keefe rush-based offense, which Tavares clearly excelled at, but skating is not his strongest suit. What is his strong suit? Strength, edges, and heavy stick. And that is way more effective, relatively speaking, in a cycle-based offense. And so, yeah, I mean, I think the fact that Craig Rubin, Craig,

I've talked to Craig Rubin about this and he's, you know, not quite making the Ryan O'Reilly comparison, but you know, Ryan O'Reilly was amazing for Rubin in St. Louis. And, you know,

could John Tavares similar kind of skater, Ryan O'Reilly is not a good skater. Could he fill that kind of role as the team matures and, you know, goes hopefully deep in the playoffs yeah i'm not expecting 80 points next year but of course i wasn't expecting it this year so he can prove me wrong again but you know if he signed three years and 15 million dollars and he gets 70 60 55 for five million dollars that is more than adequate for what you'd be

asking from him and i think that's quite reasonable that he'd be able to do that. Well, MJ, we were just talking about the motivations of guys and just the human nature of the contract year. And Tavares is obviously in a contract year. On top of that, it's a year where he was asked to dispense with the letter C on his jersey and traded for an A. On top of that, as you point out, the narrative coming into camp was, hey, maybe he's not the number two center anymore.

Maybe we could find another number two center. On top of that, everybody in town is saying if he wants to sign, he's going to have to sign for pennies on the dollar. You add all that up with a proud athlete, MJ. You've been in locker rooms of many proud athletes, including yourself. That can weigh on a guy, and he seems to be pushing back in a very real way here. People are human, right? Like I understand, you know, Tavares made a lot of money in his career,

but we're all human and we don't like to be doubted. We don't like to be criticized. We don't like people telling us that we're not as good as we think we are. We're not, we don't like to be told we're, you know, we're getting too old. We're too slow. We're too whatever, right? We want to, we want to be who we think we are and john tavarez clearly thinks that he is and proving that he's an elite level player no doubt it's motivation now i don't know what

it's like to be motivated with 100 million dollars in earnings like i don't know like if if he's worried about the dollars on his contract more so just saying hey treat me right i understand that i want to stay here. You understand I want to stay here, but I'm also really good. Yeah, it's out there. And talk about positives for the year. Hasn't that been another one? Tavares is out there.

Marner is out there. Even Matthew Nisen in extension is out there. And we haven't heard hardly anything about it. It's been really quite lovely. And I think for those players, it's been really quite lovely. They don't have to think about it, ask about it. I'm sure they're thinking about it, but not talk about it. And I think that's a great way to do business for as long as you can.

It'll come up eventually, especially toward the deadline. What do you do with Mitch? Mitch is having an incredibly good year. But so far, it's been great that there hasn't been a topic of conversation. Well, the numbers are speaking for themselves, MJ. Well, that's just it, right? And there's a great, quiet confidence you can carry yourself

with if you're Marner or Nize or Tavares. Like, check us out. I don't have to politic or push or, you know, spin. Just look what I do. Look what I've done. And that is going to get me the money I deserve. And that's a great place for an athlete to be in.

But it's also nice in a market that I thought might be pretty noisy this year about that kind of stuff has been pretty quiet. Speaking of pretty noisy, it's gotten noisy out in Vancouver. But did that game last night from Petey, you think that'll settle things over the Christmas break between him and the Pettersson talk? Or him and Miller, rather? talk or him and Miller rather. Yeah.

I mean, sure. Not one game, but I think the point is made if they don't want people to talk about whether they like each other or whether they get along, then just go produce. If you produce that, it doesn't matter if you like each other because it's not impacting your

play. The only reason why it becomes a conversation is the idea that whatever differences they have, they're so big that it's affecting the way they play. The only reason why it becomes a conversation is the idea that whatever differences they have, they're so big that it's affecting the way they play. And that's when a conversation has to be had. But maybe I was thinking about it, you guys have been around sports forever, and we've all heard stories. I've been on teams where players don't like each other. And that's normal. Like 25 different guys, 25 different sort of ways to live and beliefs and where they're like, you don't get along with everyone beautifully.

And sometimes you don't get, you actually quite dislike people, but it never bleeds into professional. Like I've never been on a team that I can think of where I can't play on the ice with that guy because I don't like him. Like I've never seen it get to that point or my confidence is shot or I don't want to come to the rink because I don't like him and he doesn't like me. And that's sort of what has been suggested. It's gotten to at times in Vancouver and not just in the last two weeks, but this has sort of been an ongoing couple year thing for these two guys. So yeah, you produce, you win, everything will quiet down and then you can figure out whether

you want to live your life with that person, whether you want to talk to the team about a trade because you're unhappy. But the public nature of it goes away if you produce. Speaking of guys that drive narrative, MJ, what did you make of Patrick Lyonnet in the wake of— Unnecessary. Unnecessary. Yeah. Unnecessary. Yeah. And now he's out. Yeah, right. And like, we'll put a target on yourself. Like, Lainey's story's been nice.

I think the way that the city of Montreal has wrapped arms around him and said, we got you. We're going to take care of you. We're going to support you. We're going to make you feel at home. And we're just going to watch you go play. And I think, you know, part of his life and given what he's been through, that was an important thing for him. And I think, you know, part of his life, and given what he's been through, that was an important thing for him.

And so, he probably should have, and I would have told him, like, just take the high road. It didn't work here. We wish them well. I had some good years here, and I've moved on to Montreal. I love it there. That's it. Don't need to say anything else. Or you can even say, like, yeah, it was tough. We did a lot of losing. I think it's hard

for everyone, and it affects everyone. You don't have to say, guys, whoever, you can figure it out, they were okay with losing. Because you're pointing a finger at a pretty prideful group of people that don't want to hear that. And without getting too far down the line, they would say, look at yourself, man. Don't be pointing fingers at us.

Look at your performance when you were here. Don't worry about how well we played. There's plenty to go around there. So, unnecessary. It's been such a brilliant two weeks for Patrick Laine. No need to have any sort of negativity. And the guys acknowledged. They went after him physically because of it.

We'll see how hurt he is, but he didn't have to. It's been just such a great few weeks for him. No need for any of that. Johnny, are you up in Ottawa yet, or are you traveling tomorrow? I am going tomorrow to Ottawa. We get going on the 26th. It's funny, AB. It's a lot of work, a lot of work to get ready for the World Juniors.

But once it starts, it flies by, and it is so much fun. And I'm looking forward to it. Ottawa is going to be sold out. Canadian team is pretty good. Probably not the favorite. I'd probably say the Americans are the favorite, but the Canadians are probably right in behind them. But just to experience it back in Canada, Halifax was beyond incredible.

But now Ottawa, bigger rink, more people, 20,000 people, red and white the whole time. It's going to be great. Do you think this Gavin McKenna kid is going to be as entertaining as he's been the last couple of games in the prelims? He's turning heads. If they let him. The biggest challenge is coaches.

He can push his way onto the roster, though. Bedard did that. He already has. Lots of players have. Right? I mean, he started game one, 13th forward. Game two, he was on the second line. Game three, he was on the second line. They scored two.

He got two goals, and I don't think he's coming off that line. So he already has made inroads for Dave Cameron to kind of prove that I'm maybe not and maybe it's the last minute of the game. I don't play with that line if we're winning. You put a guy who's 19 who's rugged and tough and strong and maybe gets a puck out better than I do.

But when it comes to making plays as an offensive guy, I love watching him play. Like it is just magic with the puck. Every time he touches it, his ability, he's a lot like Patrick Kane. I'm telling you, I'm not lofty praise,

but the way he handles it so smooth. The guy's 16. He's leading the WHL in scoring. He just turned 17, but he was 16 years old leading the WHL in scoring. 60 points in like 30 games. It's crazy what he can do. I think he will be a good and important player. Now, we can't be...

We were spoiled by Bedard with what he did before his draft year. That's not feasible. That's not feasible. That's not reasonable. But to think he might be one of the leading scorers on the team, that's, that's, that's not out of the question. Yeah.

I'm excited. I think he's going to be fun, fun team to watch. It's going to be a fun team to watch as, as a whole though. It looks like there's a lot of young players to, to keep an eye on at the tournament. Johnny,

appreciate it as always. Merry Christmas, pal. Can't wait to see you up on the tube on the 26th. All right, boys. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Have a safe one, and we'll talk to you soon.

Absolutely. There he goes. Mike Johnson, TSN hockey analyst.