OverDrive - Johnson on Domi's uncertain role, Woll seeking positives and Cowan's huge jump

Episode Date: November 21, 2025

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the Maple Leafs' defeat to the Blue Jackets, the signs of positivity for the team, Joseph Woll's role in the crease, Easton Cowan's jump in the lineup, Max Domi's giveaway and his placement on the roster and more.

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Restriction supply ships registered in Panama and Malta. Joining us on the Maple Toyota Hotline. It is indeed Mike Johnson. No sarcasm. Mike, I would love a stick of yours. I don't regret not getting any. What are you going to do with 5006-0? It's going to clutter your garage.

I give it away with somebody says. No, no. You are right about that because I have a bunch of autograph paraphernalia where ultimately you have to make a decision where it's just like, first it started with my parents, where it's in their basement, And you get a call and it's like, got to come and get the stuff. And then it goes into your basement and you're like, what am I going to do with this? Like I have some autographed gloves, some autographed skates.

I have a Peyton Manning, like, autographed helmet that cost me a lot. I was blasted one night at an auction. And I paid like five grand for it. And I'm like, I just, might as well give it to Al's brother because he's like a Colts fan. So I'm like, why do I have that stupid helmet? I don't need any of it. Yeah. You just shuffle it around from one storage area to another to another to you finally give it away or throw it away.

I know. It's just stuff. I'm not too upset about it. No. And then you want to talk about using sign sticks. When I was a kid, my dad somehow was working with Glenn Hanlon's brother. So Glenn Hanlon goalie for the Red Wings. And I was like 10 years old and I was obviously into hockey. My dad brought me home a signed Steve Eiserman game used stick.

for me to like have I'm like oh that's pretty nice the next day I cut it took it out in the street and played road hockey with it till the blade was this big and then threw it in the garbage like thanks for coming out for a sign a sign Steve Eisenman Twig

I think it was a Titan yeah but I'm not positive like 1984 or 85 kind of era so yeah no paraphernalia here AK for you you, for me, for any... All I got is this thing, whatever, is my first goal puck.

There it is. Remember my ears. So you have those sticks that say, hey, Johnny, like, great playing with you, all the... Nothing. Not one. Not literally, not one.

I regret that, Johnny. I wish I had sticks. I wish I had all my buddies. All the guys I was tight with. I wish I had them. What are you going to talk? No, I know. You say that, Frankie.

You say that, but then you just look at them, and they're just like... That's cool. No, dude, I go down to the garage. Yeah, you go down to the garage, you kind of flex them a little bit. No, you don't flex them. What you do is, here's what you do with those things when you're our age. You look for guys that have the same first name as you that you can hand them to and say,

yeah. Hey, Frank. I have another Johnson in my summer league. Yeah, hey, Frank, do you want a side stick that says to Frank, best wishes you're a great guy? That's what you end up looking for. All right. So, MJ, you were, of course, on the call last night for Leif's Blue Jackets. They lose 3-2 and overtime.

Fantilli scores the winner. Some positives from the game for sure. Some negatives from the game. Would you lean more positive or negative when you consider what last night was for the Leafs? I suppose, given where they're coming from, AK, and what we've seen the previous sort of three weeks, I guess you want to be positive. and say the games are more

under control. They're not gorgeous. They're not perfect. Of course not. There still are some issues. But this is the last three games have felt more like last year where there's not as much going on which is what happened last year. They don't

generate a ton. If I haven't last year, they don't give up quite as much either. And their goaltender, Joseph Wall in this case, has been really good three games in a row. And sometimes you get great plays. Newlander, John Tavares, and you win those games, and sometimes the other team makes plays and give Adam Fantilly a ton of credit.

That was pretty nice night for him to have in his de facto hometown. But I think in that sense, it's just a little bit more organized. I think the other part about last night's game, I haven't looked at sort of the underlying numbers, but just the eye test, it felt like, so Tavares and Nielander, they're obviously going exceptionally well. But the addition of Lotton back in the lineup and how well he played in that game and And first it was Cowan and Lorenz. That line also looked like it was sort of feeling a chemistry there.

And I think like having a couple lines that look like they're going in the right direction, that's also positive because that hasn't always been the case in the last, you know, a little while. Johnny, what is the power play need right now? It's 0 for 9 over its last four games. Like, ultimately, if you could get that going a little bit, those are bonus goals, man. It just helps you so much. It relieves some of that stress to score at five on five. What does this power play need to do in the near future?

Before you answer, MJ, I'd just like to comment on it. I think 90% of the comments detailing their power play over the last five years might have been almost, might be negative. Like just saying, what are these guys doing on the power play? They had one stretch. It might have been the lockout year where they were absolutely insane and then come playoff time. They fell off.

But I just can't believe some of these guys with that. much talent, they can't figure out that powerplay. I really can't. Yeah, and I know, oh, it's gotten cold of the wrong time. Like in the playoffs, it has really struggled. Really struggled. Yeah. But in the regular season, you know, they've sort of been a top five to ten power play

in the league the last several years. So it's not like they've been that bad on the bigger picture. Frankie, for me, there's a couple different things. One, part of the power play problems is zone entries. And that's not about Mitch Martyr, but that is something he was good at. flat out when you don't have Austin Matthews in the lineup you have Willie who can skate it in and

who else? Like is Easton going to skate it in? Tavares is incredible but he doesn't do that like sort of pace and drive it deep. You put McMahon on there, Yarncbroke, Riley like this doesn't make it quite as easy. The other part about it is what makes

good power plays beyond the X's and O's is when inevitably you get under pressure and you either make a player or pressure or buy yourself more time because you're just physically gifted at spinning and turning and you can't get the puck off me.

Al-a-Neilander, a la Matthews. And watching without Austin there, you know, as good as Ethan Cowan, I think last game was probably his best game as a professional hockey player. He was very good. He doesn't yet have sort of the strength

and the quickness to just one-on-one, up by the point, I'm going to rag it for three seconds, lose this check, and then keep the play going. It just sort of breaks down there. So I think those couple elements of not being able to get in, in and then when they get under pressure

not going to make plays are a part of it and, you know, then they just need some breaks, pucks that out, oh, you know, simplify, shoot, Tavares, one of the best in the business. When they went on that hot streak, they were getting pucks to Tavares at the hash marks, like, into the high slot and he would shoot or he'd facilitate

out to the boards, but like get it to the middle and just not around the outside. I can't stand. I think these guys have it in their head that this motion is so effective. I can't stand watching it. It's so useless. They just skate around in a circle, and they skate to a guy, and then they pass it to them. It's like, why do you feel the need to do that?

I always feel, like, I just get tired of talking like this. It's like William Neelander's got one of the best shots in the National Hockey League. Stand there and be a threat. And if you don't get it, someone else is going to be open because they're going to be afraid to death of your shot. Like a little low-plate chip, a little play into the middle like he did to Tavares against Buffalo the other day. like it's just they circle and they skate around and do all this useless stuff like that goal that st louis scored at in toronto the other night they were stationary they recognize a guy didn't have a stick through the box one-timer goal they never score goals like that because they're

always wheeling around crazy stuff go ahead a okay sorry to interrupt you know go ahead mike yeah go ahead yeah like the the the create like and some you're trying to find a balance between structure and sort of creative instinct and the guys that are out there are your best guys at that balance, but I'm with you, Owen. Again, I'm not picking on Easton Cowan. He was very, very good, and you know, I like what he's seeing, but like, I watched him play on London occasion. They freelanced, Frankie,

they freelanced all over the place, right? Like, he would just sort of go wherever he wanted and fire puck here and there and it would work out and Sam Dickinson would load up a one time where they'd score. It's not that easy. And, you know, I thought he made some nice plays in the power play, but he got into that a little bit old last night, too, where he just started

sort of skating around and I'm going to interchange here and there. And I don't know if everyone's always on the same page when that happens. But yeah, in these, like, Frankie, we've talked about the three sort of ten whole things that they won games with. Great goal-tending last year in close games. Superstar players making superstar plays and a pretty good power play. So they're going to be in these close games.

They've got to have these things be the difference makers. Well, just quickly on the power play before we move off it, like when, I don't want to make this a Marner conversation because we've done that enough. But when Marner was like the defenseman on the power play. It almost had like an Adam Fox, Quinn Hughes-esque feel to it, where he's not loading up a big shot, but what he's doing is he's making passes that beat players. And when a power play goes cold, it gets stagnant, you can work it around the outside of the ice. You can skate it around the outside of the ice. Do you do anything that beats some kind of coverage and now

gives you a two-on-one where you can take advantage of a situation? I don't think Toronto's quite doing that right now. And that's, that takes a special talent. to be able to beat someone when they're where they're supposed to be, you can still beat them and get an advantage. But that's why they're out there. Like, we shouldn't look at the Maple Leaf power play and say, well, if they only had better players. It should not be, that's why sometimes Columbus doesn't have a good power play.

That should not be why Toronto, when healthy, doesn't have a good power play. Johnny, I don't know what you thought. I know you guys just mentioned his name, but I thought that that play to John Tavares and the overall play in the Minutes Log by Easton County. and could potentially be a kickstart game where it's like, if he can build on that, maybe he's got something there. I mentioned him last night, and I talked about the opportunities.

He's getting in front of the net, some of the breakaways. He had to produce. He got a big point last night, and I really think that if he can, do not change that line. I don't care. Who comes back? Give them a chance to grow, and maybe they can be something. Because I thought he looked good.

I thought it was one of his best games in, like, the Kickstart game where it's like, man, this is fun, and I'm not just, kind of skating around chasing the puck I feel like I'm a part of it and I feel like I can be a good player I was really happy for him I thought he had a great game 100% oh 100% and there's like a couple of parts

there right one is the way he will feel about himself yeah which is big more at ease which is huge and the other part about being around that bench does Craig Barube now kind of touch trust him clearly he was he was putting out there extra shifts in off as his own situation is trying to get him more touches

we know when everyone's healthy the leaf are short a top six winger for sure maybe two and at Easton Cowan who ideally would play in that position we didn't know if it'd be this or eventually if he could be that and given what we've seen from the other players who've had shots at those roles why not give him a run narrow why go like why not and and i get keeping a short leash and making guys earn it but there's also something to be said for continuity Like, give guys four or five games. Same line mate, same roles. Get Austin Matthews back with Scott Lotton taking defensive zone faceoffs.

Like, make it look a little bit different and consistent and the same. And when Nyes and Matthews get back, that's your second line behind Tavares, Nealander, and Cowan. And then Scott Lotton plays a little with Lorenz and whoever. Like, you know, maybe there is something there that we haven't, the kind of stability that we haven't seen so far this year. TSN hockey analyst Mike Johnson with us here on Overdrive. Let's talk about Joseph Wall and his return in the last three games. I think he's been really solid for the Leafs. And every excuse in the book was right there for him, right?

Coming off the long absence, didn't have training camp, was joining a team that was playing horribly defensively. And he's been a great stabilizer for the Maple Leafs. I think you can make a case that Joe Wall could be one of the team's most important players going forward. What did you see from him last night, Mike? And what have you seen from him in the three starts? same exactly what you talked about making saves looking calm um you know giving you a sense of confidence or down there on the ice you every good chance you don't think it's going in you think it's going to

get stopped and um you know he's beat on a pant tip and a wicked shot off a wrist or off the post um the only concern aka is the same concern we have for stolars with solars hurt and it doesn't seem like you know timelines are fuzzy but he hasn't been back on the ice he's yet. They've talked about it being maybe more significant than they thought. So I don't know what that means for, like, how much can you play a guy who didn't prepare properly? Like you just mentioned with the training camp and missing time, I didn't think he would play last night. I probably would not have played him if I was the Toronto Maple Leafs. I'm like, okay, you can't play every game. We know this. Because now we want to play him on Saturday

against Montreal, but that's four in a row, four in a week. That does start to add up. But he's done everything. He's given you the kind of performance. that they were getting last year that they need and that he is capable of. So excellent, excellent and timely because they have needed his stabilizing presence. My only concern, oh, I've heard you talk about a million times. Like, you want a goalie just to take the ball and, like, say, hey, Joseph, like, here it is. Go be the guy. You could be a starting goal tenor in the National Hockey League and a damn good one.

Yeah. Like, don't give Stolars the chance when he comes back and to say, oh, it's my net, whatever. It doesn't have to be like that. You could say, it's actually my net now, bud. Yeah, and he absolutely could. I just give in the concerns about workload. And apparently what's interesting is that, and I don't know if goalies get described this way,

but talking to the coaching staff, they've mentioned that Joseph Wall works very hard in practice, which I don't know if that should be a news item, but like it's part of managing his energy. Like they can't even let him practice because he expends so much while practicing. So trying to figure out how he,

treats his body oh to be the guy who demands the net and plays well every night that is also part of what they're figuring out real time right now johnny let me ask you this about your practice habits did they ever have the same concern about yourself i so i was an efficient so is i buddy so was i i was no but i was never i was never the truth i remember when i was trying out. I was in college, oh, and not a very good player or whatever. I got invited to a national team camp. And it was like college kids and Ontario University kids. And it was to try to make the national team when there used to be one. And my coaches said, listen, like, whatever you do, it's going to be hard to stand out. There's 60 guys in the ice. You're playing two sessions. But what

you can do, pay attention and go first in every drill. And I sort of used, and I did that. And I guess I was noticed enough, whatever. But like, that sort of stuck with me in my pro career. I was a good practice player in that way. Not that I tried that hard, but I always knew what was going on, so I didn't screw up because, you know, don't be a drill buster. Then the coaches don't ever get mad at you for however hard you may be trying or not trying. The practicing hard thing is a very real thing, though. Like you hear from coaches, especially now because practices are like 30, 40 minutes at the most.

And I can't help but feel like these guys that practice really hard, they're more susceptible to getting injured. and we're seeing a ton of injuries around the league right now. Like, it's, it feels like, doesn't it feel like, Johnny, it's higher than any other year at this point with the condensed schedule? You feel like guys are getting knocked off? It does, but it doesn't, like, you would think, Frankie, with the condensed schedule, it would be stuff like groin pulls and strains and back, whatever. It seems like it's broken bones and torn knees and bad shoulder, like significant injuries, not sort of soft tissue injuries. But listen, this is what it's going to be.

every team's going through it and that's why you don't practice very hard if at all unless you're in a bad way like in the past few weeks we've been down at the least practice and Craig Brubay's been grinding them three on three down low coverage five on five the stuff that every player hates to do but you do when you're not playing well they've been doing that but generally speaking yeah it's part practicing hard for a positional player I mean I can go through odd man rushes till the cows come home and never really get that worked up by it so that's what practice they're like now Mike I think everybody respects Max Domi the way he plays the game. He's had a tough go this season. The way that it ended last night, a really, really ugly play where Fantelli scores on his turnover. He has not had a very good year. And yet Craig Barube, practice today, has him as the number two center. What do you make of the way they're using Domi? And how would you advise him to turn it around? So obviously we all have a relationship. I've known Max since he was

two years old. I root for him. I want him to do well. It hasn't been a great fit. I think Max airs a ton, sometimes to his detriment. Like, he wants to be such a positive influence that maybe he gets away from his game. I think at this point, despite working hard at it, he's probably not ideally suited to play center in this team, in this system. It's just not for him. The reason why he's there against at AAK, who are you going to put there in lieu of him?

If Nick Waugh is not available on Austin Matthews, you're going to put what, Lawrence again? Like, who are you going to put there? There's no one else. Like Quillen, Jay Quillen is great, but I mean, like, you know, he's played two, three games. You can't, like, there are no other option, so he's got to go there. And if I were to tell, talk to Max, and I'm sure he's going through it, right? Like, you can tell, when that goal went in, it was written all over his body language, how frustrated and disappointed that he was. He was trying to make a play.

He's out there in overtime. He gets an opportunity. He turned it over. Like, not a lot of Ford's going to get Fantillion on a pivot. So he probably should have just skated backwards and let him take a shot. But these things happen. If I were to tell him what to do, AK, far be it for me to listen to me. I would just say, what makes him really good is he's fast.

So I would be primarily just concerned about playing fast. And when in doubt, drift towards the net. I find when he gets in the office zone, because he is a past first guy, like I was, you try to buy yourself time away from the net, and then it break down and nothing good happens. I'm like, Matthew, you are strong enough, physical enough to get to the net. Just take more stuff to the net all the time. You do that a few times. Things will work themselves out and everything else open up.

But yeah, you kids, tough. And I imagine as soon as one of Waugh or Matthews is available, he no longer plays in the middle. I don't think he has that spot when guys get healthy. Johnny, I would really simplify with him. And I used to do the same thing as a winger and a guy who played center a little bit. And whenever I got like the ice time was reduced or palm, Maurice was pissed.

When I got out of it, I morphed into just a simple, hardworking winger. Like, I'm talking, like, really simple. Corner, finish your check, get the puck to the point, and go to the net, and crash and bang, and it's amazing what happens. One goes off your ass, or you just, you get an assist on a grinding play, and your confidence comes back, and then all of a sudden a game later, you're back to being a good player. But that's the only where to start. Forget about the skill stuff and turning up and looking for saucer passes and any of that stuff.

Simplify and beyond basic, like, just literally straight lines and finish every single check that's in front of you. And then after that, everything will follow into place. It's amazing how much it works. And, oh, you're an incredibly skilled player. But, like, whether you're a high-end guy like you or a medium-end guy or like that, that's it. When in doubt, dumb it down. Dumb it down, like Lloyd Christmas Dumb it down.

Lloyd Christmas, chip your tooth and dumb it down. Yes. Jude, chip your tooth is the key. That's it. That's going to turn everything around. And also,

when you stop putting pressure on yourself to make all these plays, you can start feeling good about a game that doesn't, where nothing happens. Yes. I got three hits. I had a shot from the boards and stramble. I didn't even get a point,

but I felt good about it because I did what I was supposed to try to do. You want your goal. for him to start this is for the coach to go up to him and say, you were the hardest working guy on the ice tonight. I loved it. Keep doing it. And there's your start.

And everything, the points and stuff will fall into play. Elite point getters, whatever stage of your career on, even if you were one earlier, you've got to do something different. You've got to find a way to bring something different. And that's the way I would start with him. Be the hardest working guy on the ice

because he's fast as hell. He can surprise defensemen. And when you can do that, you can hit people hard when they're unsuspective. and you can hurt them and be really effective. That's where he should start with his game. He's a bowling ball, man. He's a tough guy to play against sometimes that way.

Dude, that guy could knock people on their asses, man. That should be the start of the new Max Domey, a hardworking guy that finishes every check and has some great hands around the net and can pot some goals. But not like end-to-end rushes, curling up, back passes, toe drags. Forget about it. Start with simplicity, and he can be effective. amazingly, it's funny to think about this, I'm just hitting me now,

but you know we went on that run, was it two years ago, where he led the team in five on five points or assists, whatever it was? The last 30 games in Austin scored 70 goals, he was like, I see if I have every one of them. I almost wonder on Sumbla, if that has hurt him because he's become so deferential to trying to pass because he had so much success with his time here in Toronto passing. And I'm down there between the benches and, you know,

I'm watching the game. and like I can see what he's thinking and I can see what he's trying to do and it's always sort of looking to set someone else up as opposed to sort of create for himself. Like his first second and third instinct is like where can I go to find time to pass it to someone? And I would just try to try to change that a bit

and be a bit more direct like I was talking about and then we'll see what happens, A.K., see what happens. Yeah, he's got a good shot. He just doesn't use it. And if this guy ripped it, I think he'd score a lot of goals. But for whatever reason, that hasn't been part of his repertoire as a Toronto Maple Leaf. Mike, thank you for this. Have a terrific weekend.

We'll catch up with you again soon. All right, fellas, have a good weekend. And go sort through your garages and see what sticks we can throw away. Put them on the end. Where I grew up, Frankie, I put my used sticks out of the curb. All the Italian families would come take them to their tomato plants. Bingo. They all put them in the backyard.

Cut off the blade. Tomato plants. I got some old CCMs in the garage. You want one of mine? I'll bring it to you. Bring you caraddle. Cannot wait. Perfect.

That's my number on it anyways. Yeah, exactly. That is Mike Johnson, who joined us on the Maple Toyota hotline, get in and go, where adventure takes you in a new 2025 Tacoma from Maple Toyota near Canada's Wonderland in the Maple Auto Mall. Visit MapleToyota.com. It's beginning to sound a lot like Christmas with Iheart the holidays. Non-stop Christmas music 24-7.

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