OverDrive - Johnson on Jarry's trade to Edmonton, Skinner in Pittsburgh and Matthews' skill set

Episode Date: December 12, 2025

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the NHL, Tristan Jarry's trade to the Oilers, the Maple Leafs' defeat to the Sharks and Oliver Ekman-Larsson's injury status, Auston Matthews' style and his ranking in the league and more.

The lights are twinkling, the playlist, sparkling. I Heart the Holidays is here. Canada's home for Christmas music with non-stop festive favorites, 24-7. Gifted to you by Sleep Country. Turn it up and unwrap the holidays everywhere you go. Just ask your smart speaker to play I Heart the Holidays. Or stream it anytime, anywhere, on the free. Here's Mike Johnson, our TSN Hockey Analyst, joining us here on the Maple Toyota hotline.

Johnny, go ahead. If you're Connor McDavid, play the role of Connor. How do you feel about this goaltending flip? Jari and Skinner out? I mean, I think the question marks about goaltending are understandable or it's going to be hard to get a guaranteed, massive upgrade over Stuart Skinner. Right? Like, just the way of the nature of the position and how it played right now. But if you're Connor, you've got to be thinking, my first guy reaction is, that's it.

Like, that's, that's your guy. His contract sinks up. That his contract sinks up with my contract. My savings, my $8 million discount, my commitment to try to win in the next two years. Thank you, Mike. My window is tied to Tristan Jari's window. And there's no question Tristan Jari has been better than Stu Skis. in or this year.

Tristan Jari could have had for anything for free. How many months ago? Seven? Eight? So, like, that would be my concern. It may work out brilliantly. And Tristan Jari's played really well. Give him credit. Like, he went to the minors. He resurrected his career. Like, it was over.

And now he's the goalie for the, for Stanley Cup contender. Like, that, no one had that happening a year ago. But that would be my concern. Like, yes, it's different. And, and, Maybe the team and organization, and maybe even me, Connor McDavid, as much as we love Stu, I've had so much success with him, we wanted, we needed something different, even only for different sake, given how it has been as of like, you know, last little while and the fact that we didn't win the two times we got there. But if I took a step back, that would be sort of my concern.

Like, this is, so this is the guy. Like, this is the guy that we're going to stake my ability to win, our ability to win a Stanley Cup on. Boy, I hope it works, because if it doesn't, that is a spicy meatball hanging out there. Well, can I ask you in noodles a hypothetical? If you could have the same, let's say a similar package and you could bring back Bennington. Do you like that trade better? Only in that Bennington has been good. I think Bennington is one of the worst colleagues in the league this year.

Yeah. So you'd be betting strictly on history and nothing on present. Jari, you're doing the opposite. You're betting strictly on the present, and maybe not so much on the history. For a guy who's never really won in the playoffs, hasn't been good, but this year has been, I would have concerns the same way if it

was bidding noodles. Like, there'd be, I wouldn't feel, okay, we solved it for sure, whether it was Bittington, or whether it was Jari, or probably whether there's any of the guys that they could sort of afford to go get. I think, too, there is a scenario is

if we go back, the only the only recent moves that we could look at is what Colorado did. It was a year and two days ago that keep in mind, not a lot of people, McKenzie Blackwood wasn't on everybody's radar, right? Good goaltender, right? And same thing. Scott Wedgwood could have been had for a lot of, you know, million dollars as a backup, all of that type of stuff,

Canadian goaltenders. I think it's the setting you look at too. If you ask me just from without winning pedigree and all that, And it's not fair because winning pedigree, I would take Bennington just based on what he's done and what he's capable of doing. Again, we talked about it. Four nations, what was going to be the Achilles heel? It was going to be goaltending, right? What did he do in the big game?

Stop Matthews a few times, like, you know, made some huge saves in overtime. Like, it's the situation you play in. You know, St. Louis isn't that great of a team. Pittsburgh hasn't been that great of a team. Edmonton struggles defensively. sometimes. The new setting, what I look at, and this is what I keep saying, it might take a little time to settle into your new environment. I think Jari's a really talented goaltender. That's the thing. I think he's talented. I think he's a really good goaltender. Now, he has to play to that

capability and settle in. But you're right. Underwhelming, I don't know what would have been the winner of a trade, but they are different there, and I think they're more talented in that spot whether he lives up to it or not or can be healthy enough that's another thing you bring to the table yeah that's another question the other thing too lost in all this is i think Connor and ingram's a really good goaltender and i think that they they are and he's in a minor's edmonton signed him and they can bring him up at some point and then they get to figure out what they do with pickard but um well i mean emminton's in town tomorrow and um the leaves last night they had that opportunity for two points and it got away from them

and they end up losing it overtime. But I think they dodged a bullet. Ekman Larson, it looked like he was finished for a long, long time. And it sounds like he could be okay to play tomorrow because they've taken so many hits. And like where would he rank for you, Johnny, in terms of team MVP's this year for the Leafs? Well, he would be their most valuable defenseman.

I mean, you know, I think you could make an argument, Tavares and Nylander early carried it offensively. But I think he's been their most valuable and probably most consistent, wild that I'm saying that. Oliver Beckman-Larsen has been their most consistent defenseman this year.

You think about their right side now. I know OEL shoots left, but he plays on the right a lot, right? So no OEL we thought. And you're right, Hayes. Like, I'm like, that looked like a torn ankle ligament. Oh, he kind of like got stuck under there. And the way he went off, like zero weight on there at all, it wasn't

a huge bend in the ankle, but it was enough. And the reaction felt very serious. But, you know, if it's going to be OEL 10 F, Carlo, those are your three right side defensemen that you play with. So, you know, then because, you know, Riley

McCabe and somebody else, if he was gone long term, I think it almost would have been they would have been forced to make a trade immediately. I don't think bringing up Marshall Ruffai or Henry Frun or

Villeneuve, who everyone keeps talking about, I don't know if I've ever seen him play. Like that's not the answer for this team. this team needs sort of better than those guys because defensively they still don't have the best system they don't get out of the easiest and so yes I think they're fortunate to look like he's going to be okay but hey you look at their numbers

Jones probably hasn't been front of them last year 37 times they were leading after two periods they lost once they lost in overtime once that's it I think it was 35 one and one when leading after two This year, Jonas, what are they, five, three, and two? Like, it's already happened three times as many times as last year. And it just, you know, their inability to score that next goal

or their inability to defend was troubling. You love Hildeby. He played awesome. Another game against San Jose where when they play, and it's gotten better, but when they play fast skating teams, it highlights the fact that they're not fast. And that's what last night was. Like, I thought first period,

San Jose was a better team. Second period was about as good as I've seen Toronto play. Toronto played really well in the second period. Like totally dominated. And I'm watching and I'm like Nick Robertson, these chances, like someone's got to shoot it in a corner and score a goal. Right? Matthews was all over at five shots, maybe in the second period alone.

You're like, okay, that was amazing. The fact that they left that period just to 1 and not 2-0 or 3-0, set them up to be no good at all in the third period. They tried to hang on and not play and San Jose just put it on them for 23 minutes and just they were on their heels the whole time.

So it's just another example of why good steps, like where Matthews was good, Nildevue was good, they got another point, all sort of positive stuff, but different than last year where a close game that they didn't get the result that they usually do.

Well, Mike, you mentioned Matthews. Hayes is a little bit more, I'm going to speak for you. Yeah, go ahead. He's a little more glass half empty about Matthews-of-Ais. Is that fair? No, I was talking about overtime in particular. Just specifically.

Like everyone was ragging him for the back check, which wasn't great, but he was gassed. I think the biggest threat, he was dead, but my bigger concern there was that he didn't take the shot. Like, I know he was three feet inside the blue line, but you're at the end of your shift, you're dead anyway, and it's like he's always, this, right, last year, he rips that. Like, that's off his stick. Yeah. And he's just...

You mean two years ago. Two years ago. Exactly. And instead, he's like, I got to get five feet closer. I got to make a play. And even if he made the play, I'm not convinced he wouldn't have passed it to Riley. Like that, that's the bigger issue for me, Johnny. It's not the back check.

He was dead. He couldn't get back. It's Riley puts it on a T-form. The Dalkevich is screened to an extent. He's five, six feet inside the, ripped that shot. Take it. And he didn't do it. And he hasn't done it.

For a year and a half. Go ahead, I would only add, like he's got goals in three of the last four games. Last night, that was the pass last night. Like,

that wasn't, that wasn't like a vintage. He was good last night. He played well last night. I'm not, I'm not taking that away from him. He had guys on his back. He was taken to the net,

like the wrap around, the power moves and, um, looking to shoot tips. Like a lot of the stuff that we do see when he's playing well. That was more of the good stuff. Um, I hear what you're saying,

Hayes, but like I watched the spacing. I'm down there. The whole overtime, amazingly, the Leafs felt clogged three-on-three, and they felt like they had no space. It was so strange. And even in that sequence, you're like, yeah, I was tight there. He leans into that shot.

It gets blocked. It's also going to be a two-on-one going the other way. Now, maybe you don't think that way when you shoot it as well as him. But I think generally speaking, I hear what you're saying. But in overtime last night specifically, the whole thing felt off for Toronto. They just never had sort of the good. spacing and pace that they're looking for. And the other part is when it's that late in your shift,

you can either pull her back and reload or shoot it and just change, which is almost conceding possession as well, which that's part of it. You don't want to just shoot. You're thinking shooting to score. He's thinking shooting if I miss or blocked, I got to play defense.

I don't want to play defense so I don't have any energy. I sort of get what he was thinking last night. I thought he was their best forward last night. I thought up against Celebrity. he is a while to say he did well to saw Celebrini off like Celebrini is the second lead to score in the league or third I guess now guy McDavid and McDavid and

you know he had his own chances as did Celebrini I thought he was good so there's been plenty of games where he hasn't been what he was last night he was probably the best forward yeah isn't it weird though just jumping it isn't it weird that shouldn't we be hoping that Celabrini saws Matthews off

you know what I'm like but not this year Look at their points. One guy's got 45. One guy's almost 25. I get it. But, I mean, my expectation, and it still is very high. Austin Matthews is a superstar that is very effective in all situations.

I don't know his health status. I don't know anything. But when he's at his best, other teams have to circle him on the whiteboard and go, you can't give this guy time and space. Do not give him an opportunity to shoot the puck from anywhere. All of that type of stuff. we're talking about yeah he was able to saw celebrini off i i look at it the other way is i still expect and this isn't hayes you could speak to this isn't me patrick mahomes kansas city

going eventually you're expecting the light go on this guy is still in the prime of his career and he's a top tier player i expect a little bit more out of him even though i get i agree i thought he was excellent last night i just there's nights where i just think he's unstoppable i just haven't seen that consistently And they need that. Not this year, though. They're going to continue. I agree, Johnny.

I'm not saying, but I still have that expectation. I guess that's where I'm. Well, that's what you're asking, like of the goalposts move where I went. That's the conversation. Yes. Really? Like, tomorrow night, are you hoping he saw his, like, it's different tomorrow's McDavid. And McDavid's cooking right now.

Like, he is playing a video game the last week and a half. But it's on your home. You got last change. It's your ice. Well, Tuesday. And Badaards in town, exactly. Like, would you sign off right? right now on Matthews and Bedard's sawing each other off.

You take them out of the game. He's not a check in the center, man. He's like, but I'm talking in generalities. You just, you leave the game. It's not even about numbers. Let's just use the eye test. You leave the game and you say they both, they balance, they were both good, you know,

eight out of ten game, both players. What is my expectation? Well, I'm asking you, it's your expectation. Why are you asking me for your expectation? I'm saying. I'm saying, no. No? You're not, you're not willing to sign off on that. Okay. Not for Bedard. For McDavid?

Yeah. Yes. But Bedard, no. Because I think if I want Toronto to be good, I can't tolerate ties with Matthews. Yeah. So if that's where we're at, and that is the conversation, though. Is that where we are at, Jonas, I don't know if that's what you think, but if that's where the Leafs are at, then they're not in a good spot because he has to win those matchups,

not just title. I think we've seen in the last two weeks since he came back from the injury, he's looked better and better. I don't think he looked like this at all last year. I don't think he looked like this at all before the injury this year. So like I think he's moving in the right direction, but is he there yet? No, I agree with you. I agree with you.

I think he's played much better recently. Like I do. I'm not, I was discussing overtime in particular. And I was talking about people jumping on him for the back check. And I said, I'm giving him a pass for that. I'm not jumping on him for that. I was talking about the previous play. But I think what you hinted at is, like, the bigger issue is, like, is that coming back?

Right. Is he going to take that shot and finish it in the game's over? And that's a legitimate discussion in, I think, concern at this point. It's not even a question anymore. It was a question this time last year. It's a concern, a calendar year later. But, yeah, you look at it, like, these are the best players in the league right now. Yes, he's a kid.

He's phenomenal. Like, he's crushing teams every night. McDavid's McDavid. Dry Settles, Dry Settle. but Dard's top five in points. But if you look at the division, which is, again, what we continue to discuss with the Leafs and trying to get a read on what's going to happen with them the rest of the way,

if you bottle what we've seen out of Matthews the last handful of games, and I think we all agree he's played really well, how many centers in the Atlantic are better than him at this level, not two years ago, Matthews, and I'm talking about this year in particular, which means Barkov's hurt. So he's out of the conversation right now. so let me name something so point no not this year not this year the way points been

playing although he's starting to cook a little bit yeah but it didn't have a good start Suzuki yeah who would you take for this year Johnny Suzuki or Matthews based on this year's play game tonight Suzuki has been better than Austin Matthews this year yeah now if I were to take one of the two of them for next game we'll give what I've seen like this past 10 I think I take Austin Matthews. I think the goal scoring and the physical play

I think it's still there. Not by a lot, but by a little, I'd still take Matthews. I think I would. Stutzler or Matthews? Austin. Boston for sure, yeah. Okay.

Larkin. Larkin's playing really well right now. It still takes Matthews, right? Okay. And then in Boston, who are we talking about? Sam Bennett? I'd take Austin during the regular season during the playoffs, no chance.

But I think noodles what you're getting as that we're having this conversation is weird. I just, like you're saying the names, and I've watched them all recently, Johnny. You know, we've seen them all live, all of that. It's just, it should be Matthews and then, but it's not. Now you're having this debate. Like, you know, Tim Stutzl has taken another step this season, like he's shooting more, is face-offs. Now you see him, you know, over 50 percent, that type of stuff.

Like, what's happening is these players now are maturing. They've matured, and now they aren't, they aren't the 19-year-olds that we saw when Matthews was scoring 69 or whatever it was, 60. These are guys now that are on, they've come into their own. They're right in their wheelhouse. So the gap has bridged because the players have grown up around him, too. That's the one thing that I think we're losing sight of. previously it was it was always

Austin or Nate McKinnon Austin or Connor McDavid Austin or Leon Dreisadle Austin or Barkoff That was the conversation It was not Austin or No disrespect to Suzuki or Stutzler Or any of those guys

Like that's the tier below The tier above And the question is Austin is still a great, great player But he's not In the top four or five guys in league right now He's not No and again

He's down in that group below and where he sits in that group, you can have that debate. He probably still sits toward the top of it, but he's in the second group, not the first group. And to finish that point, if the Leafs have any ambition of winning

something this year, he's got to get back to that top group. Because Tavares, John's going to be what he's going to be, and Nick Wall, like they don't have that second, well, and they're missing their other superstar now, right? That guy's just gone. In Marner, you mean? Yeah, I mean, they still have Willie, but you're right. Yeah, and Marner's

not here. And, like, again, you look at the division, and it's not that point isn't a great player, he is. And it's not that there aren't other guys like Pastonak who doesn't play center, who's phenomenal, Brady Kachuk, et cetera. Yeah, and obviously a Barkav was healthy. It might be a different story. But you look at Edmonton,

obviously McDavid's the king. But he's got Eichel in his division. He's got Carlson in his division. He's got Celebrini in his division. Like, he's got guys right on his tail. That any given night, it's like, man, I'm in one tonight. Like I'm in Vegas, I better cook

or Iico's going to beat me tonight. If I'm in San Jose Celebrini, like Matthews should be salivating. Like I, there is nobody in this division that can touch me when I play them. And it just hasn't materialized. Yeah, that's, it hasn't happened. But that's where I keep coming back to is

I still expect it. And I believe he should be there. And, you know, is it just a matter of time? That's the thing. Is it, is it health? Is it timing is is it the adjustment of not playing i i know swear word all of that but mitch's departure oh yeah has left you know uh uh johnny you talked about it the the puck transporting the passing what you go ahead you jonas you tell me historically

austin matthews yeah has scored at a higher rate without mitch marter at five on five than with. So we can talk about missing Mitch Martyr, and I believe that on the power play for sure. For sure. But at 5 on 5, in a really large sample over the course of his entire career, Austin has scored at a greater rate without Mitch than with at 5 on 5. But Mike, you would acknowledge that was a different player.

Like we, this is different, right? Yes. And that's what we're going on. But then again, but yeah, but then you're saying the variable is Austin, not Mitch. The variable is not that. Can it be both? Like, he would be better. Yeah, of course it's, of course it's both.

Of course it is. But you're like, which one is the larger? Is it Austin changing or is it the roster changing? Or is it also this system? Yes. Is different. All of that. This system is not the same that those guys lit the league on fire,

got all their money, got all their points. We're like the run and gun up and down, rush chance, crush teams in the five-on-five numbers, I test, or whatever, it's not that group. That's not what they were last year either. This is not a new phenomenon. This is a two-year-in-the-making thing.

All in the guys to be better in the playoffs and more difficult to play against. And maybe that worked. Again, they were in game seven against the best team last year. The only team that got that team to game seven. So maybe it did work at the playoffs. I don't know. But I do know that in the regular season, now it's been two years. It's been 100 end games.

that they don't generate the way we would like to think Austin Matthews would generate, no matter what you ask him to do. He doesn't do it in this system. And I think it's all those things. It is him. It is his teammates who may have left. It is all those things combined

that make him a little bit less, a little bit less, a little bit less, and all of a sudden he's just great and not one of the best players in the world. Yeah, well, and yeah, listen, we'll see what comes with it. as of tomorrow night and he's got a long runway here the rest of the way and

the Olympic Games, obviously, where that's going to focus, you know, there's going to be a lot of focus on him. He's likely and they haven't announced it, but I can't imagine. Now, I don't want to start, but I would think whether it's Austin or somebody else,

that players will be unwilling to sit out if they're not 100% healthy because of the Olympics. and that you know like you imagine if whatever ohel it's got the bad ankle let's just say that for now not austin and what and he makes the olympic team and like he obviously would be better served by taking three weeks off obviously but guys won't like that that around the league is going to be an interesting conversation because they want it so bad these top players like like i think teams

will sort of be forced to let them go play even if they shouldn't and probably forced to keep them in the lineup to keep their Olympic eligibility case going, even though maybe they shouldn't because they want it so bad. It is sort of an undercurrent that nobody would talk about. Like, would guys be better off not playing the Olympics physically for the regular season? The answer is going to be yes for a whole bunch of guys. And how many guys don't go? I bet there's almost nobody.

Yep. I think you're right. I think especially the older guys with a lot of miles on them. Look last year with Matthews Four Nations, but we talked about it. Yeah. Probably should not have been there. Same thing. But bigger.

But like a thousand times bigger. All right, Johnny. Great stuff, buddy. We'll do it again early next week. All right, fellas. Have a good weekend. Stay warm. It's cold.

Oh, man, it's cold. I know. There he is. Mike Johnson joining us from the Maple Toyota Hotline. Get in and go where adventures take you in a new 2025 to coma from Maple Toyota near Canada's Wonderland. And the Maple Auto Mall visit mapleto.com. Iheart Radio. Everything holiday.

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