OverDrive - Johnson on Marner's decreased production, McDavid's performance and Hughes' future in Vancouver

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss Connor McDavid's accolades and if he is in the Hart Trophy sweepstakes, Auston Matthews' skill set, Mitch Marner's decreased production with the Golden Knights and his role, the Maple Leafs' win against the Lightning, Quinn Hughes' future in Vancouver and more

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Exactly. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Get more for less this holiday season with affordable phone plans and member benefits you'll love. Virgin Plus, obviously. Visit a Virgin Plus store or virginplus.ca for details. Here's Mike Johnson, our TSN Hockey Analyst, joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. There he is. What's happening, Johnny?

Well, hey, I like the victory left, 29 games into the season. That is nicely played. That is well done. Because I know if you ever get a prediction wrong, I'm sure you're revisiting. Be like, boy, did I ever blow that one? Boy, was I way off? Never. That never occurred.

In fact, I remember this conversation with O and I, and while I think we conceded, yes, unlikely 150. The no heart trophy thing, that is still very bold to me. Very very bold to me. That is the show and there's been some real dumb things. And that's saying something. That is saying something with this crowd. All right, so where would

McDavid rank for you? The heart was being handed out tonight. Is he in the top five? Oh, I mean, he wouldn't probably not. I'd have to look through it very clear. But it's, it's McKinnon. It's McCarr. I think Celebrini and Bedard would be ahead of him.

Celebrini and Badar would be in there. Given what they're doing those teams, they don't have a running mate like Drysaddle. Maybe in the top 10-ish. But if we're going mostly based on points and mostly based on team success, I'm not kidding to our Edmonton crowd, but would it surprise anyone?

I would almost give it even odds, even odds that Edmonton wins the division. So, you know, if they go and finish it, first and he ends up second or third in scoring. He might be a hard finalist. He won't win. I think McKinnon or McCarr will get that award. But I don't think it's out of the question.

He'd be a top five guy by the end of the season at all. I'm with you on that. I mean, that's very reasonable. It's probably predictable. I mean, that's probably, like you said, safe money to kind of lean that way with him. You know, and again, we don't have to revisit the conversation. It's just time is 20. Well, he's in

year 11. Like, if he doesn't win it this year, I hate to break it to you guys. It becomes more unlikely as he gets older he's going to win. What year is McKinnon in? McKinnon is older than him. Yeah, he is older. Right. You're absolutely right. Johnny, we were just having the discussion

and I said I found it somewhat it's almost disappointing to say because we were talking about guys that could roar back and jump into that heart conversation and Austin Matthews isn't in that conversation as a guy that feels like he could roar back and get in there now. Why is that?

Is he committed to defense? Is Is he something off with him? Is he injured? How come he's not a guy? Because in years past we'd be like, Austin Matthews could rip off 40 goals the rest of the way and be dialed into that conversation and overtake it. But I don't think if we're being honest, he isn't right now.

And I want to know why. I think the answer is always not that simple. It's not one thing. It's a combination of everything. One, you know, I'm not sure where his body's at. If this is healthy, if this is what? this version of healthy for him is I'm not sure that he plays in the right kind of system

that will allow him to pile the kind of points perhaps the attention to detail 200 foot game also hurting him the fact that power play is like the worst in the league and boy it looks awful at times is not going to help him you put all that together and you're like yeah like he's going to have a good year where he'll get

45 goal 90 point pace that's an incredible season that is one of the better players in the league season but it's not hard trophy winning And it feels like in his best moments, oh, so far this year, we haven't seen many glimpses of a guy that could go on a 50 goals and 65 games here. He just doesn't look like that. He looks like a guy who's going to get a goal every other game and be really good while doing it. But that might just be where he's at.

Health, system, teammates, special teams, all of it. He's just not, you know, a top, top score in the league right now. You know, Johnny, we had a discussion earlier on about just the impact of the Olympics on the NHL. I think we can all agree, fatigues it. But I made the strong case that, you know, we've seen a lot of kind of sloppy and hectic play because of the lack of some practice time to hammer it habits. You know, what is your experience in that? And are you seeing something similar or dissimilar? Yeah, I think it's sort of a product, though, that's been happening for a few years.

like practice is less and less and we see it more frequently coach always complaining about it and struddy also think the league's getting younger so many of the guys in the bottom of the roster are 20, 21, 22 and they have energy, they have physicality but they don't have experience so that when they are tired

they can sort of figure out how to play to be safe and a bit more cautious so yeah it's it's an issue fatigue and no practice but I think it's sort of exacerbating what has been happening the last few years anyway Well, and I wonder how that applies to, you know, players on new teams, not having practice. It's probably even more highlighted strut. And I'm, you know, leaning towards where Mitch Marner is right now.

Vegas has won four in a row. They're on the East Coast. They're playing well. But Mitch has five goals, 27 points and 28 games. He's playing less minutes than he has, I think, at any point, certainly in his prime. It's been more on the second line in Vegas than on the top line. Like, you know, I've seen him play a few games. games. I have not seen him. Obviously, when he's in Toronto, I watched the large majority of

his shifts. I can't say I'm doing that right now, but the numbers are somewhat staggering, Johnny. Like, he's on pace again for 12, 13 goals and 74 points, 75 points. Like, that's not Mitch Marner, man. Like, what do you make of it? Why is it not popping for him? So I think first off, he's not playing Jack Eichael. I think Jack Eichael is the best player in Vegas. A lot of people assume well, he works so well with Matthews, another great player, he'll work well with Ikel, and it didn't really happen for them.

So I think, you know, you're putting them in, with a less dynamic player to work with. So that might hurt him a little bit. I do think they do play a pretty structured system there. It's not quite as freewheeling. Now, you know, it was Brubes for that matter, you had a great year. So maybe that's not as much. But I think everyone in

Vegas has their numbers, you know, stunted a little bit by the style that they play. under Cassidy but the five goals is what's surprising like you know point a game you can bump that up and get to 85, 88, 90 and that would be decent pretty good right

he's not like a 120 point guy you're hoping it's a hundred point guy right but if you're going to get 15 points out of a guy I mean unless he's Joe Thornton getting 15 goals and 100 assists like that's not what you're acquiring when you're thinking you're getting one of the best offensive players in league like you got to score

you got to score 30 goals-ish to be, you know, an elite-level offensive player, no matter how many assists you get, including Connor McDavid, right? Like, he can't get 20 goals and 100 assists. Like, that's not an elite, you know, elite, elite, elite-level offensive performance. So that part is surprising. And I'm sure he's, he's aware of it, but he's probably not feeling it the same way as he. He's in Vegas, although there has been some rumblings, but he's not feeling it publicly

and in the media like he would be if he was in Toronto. Yeah. And, you know, I can't speak for people. Vegas, but they've been spoiled. I mean, let's be clear. They went to the cup final their first year. If you've been a gold night fan, you've just expected greatness and competitiveness, and they are a competitive team, and they're going to be, I believe, a cup contending team.

But when you bring in a guy making $12 million, you're probably thinking, all right, let's see this guy rock. I'm curious Hayes about the Eichl stuff. Like, wouldn't you kind of say when you're signing the deal like that, look, am I playing with Eichael here or what? And it seemed like they played together for the first two or three games, and then they didn't but are they matched stylistically Johnny like do you see them

I see them as two guys that both like to have the puck on their stick yeah that's the problem they're both transporters and that's why Mitch was really good with Austin because Austin does the work gets it to the wing and then can come in late and get into scoring positions while someone else gets the puck up the ice in the offensive zone

in Vegas Jack wants the puck Jack is one of the fastest skaters in the league he wants to puck through the neutral zone into the offensive zone and by default Jack Eichael is a pastor as well. He can shoot very well, but his nature is to be a

facilitator as is Mitch Varner. So, like, I get why it didn't make instant sense, why Mark Stone is so good with Jack Eichle because he compliments the stuff Jack Eichle wants to do well, and Mitch, their skill sets are maybe a little bit too similar, but oh, I mean, if you have that

conversation, yes, you'd like to play with Jackie, you'd like to put up points, but at some point you're like, okay, my team's rolling, or, you know, Coming up on First in the Pacific, we're tax-free. I got the money. My kids and families in great space. I wonder if you don't grind on that he doesn't have 35 points instead of 28,

quite to the same degree now given where his contract and his life and his team is. Well, I'm sure it's a very different experience. I don't think there's any doubt. And it's not his team, quote-unquote. You've experienced this. I've talked to people that have been around them. It's Eichol, it's Stone, it's Theodore. That's that it's their team, so to speak.

And that doesn't mean Marner won't have a big, you know, role in that, especially if he's going to be there for the next decade. But here it was him and Austin. Like those were the two guys, really. And there was a packing order. Matthews was probably a little bit ahead of him. But the limelight is very different, clearly. And ultimately, he's going to make it or break it with what he does in the playoffs, right?

Like that's where people are going to really determine was it the right play. If he goes there and they win and he plays great, then he'll look back in Toronto and say, it wasn't me. was it my problem and the least the same thing you know the Leafs you look at that game last night johnny like it was a low event kind of heavy game i thought the Leafs played well i thought they checked well defended well they look comfortable in a role like that not that marner wouldn't help them in those roles either but you know it does kind of feel like now we're 28 29 30 games in like last season is officially behind us that makes sense and it's time to turn the page and the

leaps have been doing that recently yeah but you know what makes it easier to turn the page is some Ws. Yes. Right? Because like you're not so inclined to look back of the good old days. Oh, remember when Mitch was getting 100 points? Remember when we were scoring a whole bunch? Remember when he was a great defensive winger?

Because we remember the wins that he was involved in. Now that the Leafs have sort of righted the ship, they've corrected a lot of the stuff that was ailing them early, the rush chances against, the penalty kill bleeding chances, the slot protection. Like they are so much more like last year's team in the last seven, eight games where, Yeah, they get outshot a little bit, but the quality of shots is not the same. They don't give up as much high danger stuff.

Stanley Kill's been solid. Goaltending has been spectacular. Like, that's what they were last year. And that's when they won the division, and they were within one game of going to the third round. And they lost the eventual cup champion. So they're looking more like that. And now it is easier to say, okay, Mitch Marner, he's gone. We're not looking to see why we are good because he's not there.

We are good, and he's not here. and now we just try to fix the things that we need to improve like the power play, which I still think they miss him on. But, yeah, I definitely think sort of emotionally and just logically everyone can turn the page on that chapter and say, all right, like, he's off doing his own thing and so are we. Johnny, how close do you think you can get? We're having an Atlantic division pool to guessing how it rolls out at the end of the regular season. Everyone's chunking in a hunch, and you have to predict one through eight in the Atlantic.

How difficult would that be? I feel pretty good at picking eight. Eight, well, let's just go one through seven then, if we're going to play that game. Yeah, it's going to be really hard. Like, listen, I'm in, obviously. If it comes to you guys, I like my chances. But, like, I think right now,

like you have to like Tampa to be good in the end. I don't think Florida, given the injuries, is going to maybe threaten for first. So you start working your way down. Who could win? I think Tampa could win. I don't think Detroit, although they are in first place, is going to win the division. Montreal, if Ottawa could get some goals, they should be there as well.

And then Toronto's a wild card. Like, it would be really, really, really hard. I'm just counting Boston, whatever they're doing. Yeah. Oh, it's going to be tricky. But I will say, if we're going one through seven, would it surprise anyone if at the end of the season, one through seven is separated by less than 10 points. 98 points to 88 points?

I think that is entirely realistic. Well, if that's the case, and I think it very likely could be, the stretch run will be remarkable. And the pressure on the- At the train deadline will be trained. I haven't seen this in this division in seven years. It's been Tampa, Florida, Boston, Toronto, and the other guys are the other guys.

It's not even been a conversation. Yes, I know last year, Montreal and Ottawa made it. But that was the first time in a decade. It didn't seem like there is much to think about down the stretch. Yeah. To think what all these teams and the best part is is if you're Toronto, Tampa, Florida, you're probably thinking we don't know we're going to finish,

but we think we can maybe win a cup. If you're Ottawa or Montreal, you're thinking we're not that far behind those other guys. Like, why would we not be aggressive? of our future is now. Yeah, there's every reason for about six of those teams to go sort of be aggressive thinking they could do good things if they make it or when they make it. Yeah, trade deadline, down the stretch, be two months of intense, intense games and scoreboard watching and standing watching.

What's your mini jerrys that Quinn Hughes is playing in the Atlantic Division by the end of the year? Oh, Atlantic Division. So I would say it is 95% he's not playing in Vancouver. That feels easier. Okay. But I would say in the Atlantic, this is an inside of training segment. I think that he's in the Atlantic's only about 37%. And then 60% chance that he ends up in the metropolitan.

So, like I know Detroit is aggressive and it's, and it sort of makes sense. for Detroit in that they have the assets, they have the need, and maybe they have the belief that even though he's not saying Detroit is priority number one, he does have the Detroit ties, University of Michigan,

they can convince him a la Miko ranted. Like, come here, you'll like it enough, we'll give you the $50 million and we can give you an eight-year contract that you will not be able to get. When you change teams in two years, you're getting a six-year deal from Jersey. nearly $30 million on the table

by not extending with us next fall that's a lot of money for anybody and I know he has a lot but that's still a lot so I would say it's about yeah 37% or so that he ends up in the Atlantic about 60% he ends up in the metro in Jersey or maybe in Philadelphia

that's interesting team up with Rick Tocket blockbuster comment I love this so Johnny you don't think that he has said it's either Vancouver or Jersey. That's all I'm doing. You don't think that's his approach? Well, he doesn't, I mean, he can say that for the extension,

but he's got two more years without trade protection. So Vancouver could say, well, you can say Jersey all you want, go there in two years, because right now, Detroit's giving us Edvinson, Nate Danielson, and a first rounder. And that's better than what we're going to get from Jersey. So go enjoy Detroit for two years. Then you can get to Jersey whenever you want to get there. He doesn't get to really control this to the degree that you might think he does because he has the two years.

And there will be teams, we've talked about this, that see the value in making that deal for a two-year window with him on your team, maybe playoff dates, maybe tens of millions of dollars in playoff gate revenue, as well as the chance to convince him to stay there with the extra two-year on the extension kicker. Like we can't act like $30 million is not a lot of money. So there's a lot of incentive For a team like Detroit if they trade for him to say We got a pretty good case to make that he stays with us And not just goes to Jersey eventually

And maybe Maybe the greater tell might be If he goes somewhere extends there Does Jack end up joining Quinn As opposed to the other way around? Now we're talking, man Now we're talking Although Luke just signed a long-term deal in Jersey

But maybe he's the third brother like maybe he just doesn't count but he's a little he's the run to the litter little brother gets to run the short end sometimes you never know you never know you stay in jersey you can come meet us when you're older if you want yeah that's an interesting thought i mean i it does like it sucks from van at the core of this it sucks if you're conach fan because that team is a mess they got blown up by detroit last night yeah there weren't even booze because people just left you know like screw it we're out of here yeah it's apathy is kicked in and i like if you're a fan you just want hughes to stick around because if he leaves

what is left like i know knox fans have a connection to peterson i understand that and i they want to believe he will revert back to superstardom and it's going to happen i personally think that ship is sail i just don't see it happening what else are you loving there what else are you connected to

it can't be demco he doesn't play enough that sure is helen ep 40 that's what i'm saying like what what is if you're a conuck fan and hues is gone and he leaves and you're like why did we extend Demko why do we extend Besser why did we extend Connor Garland like these moves were made

with the intention to be good and if you lose your best player and he is miles in a way they're best player and you look at the old with and without Quinn Hughes on the ice they're like different teams right when he's out there they're good when he's out there when he's not they're not so good and

even with him they're in last place so all those contracts all that future planning doesn't make a lot of sense. They would have been better off trading Dempco, trading Garland, letting Besser walk, whatever. If they were going to go down this road, those contractual commitments

to the other players to surround Quinn Hughes to make it palatable for him to stay, make no sense. So yes, it's a brutal situation. He's done nothing wrong. He's been very upfront about what his wants are and how he wants to go about doing them. He's given them years of warning

that it might go this way, so they're not blindsiding them and they won't be prepared. But, yeah, it's a tough situation for Vancouver because he's that good and he can control when he leaves and then they're going to be left sort of high and dry and that team is sort of stuck in not good no man's land, which is a bad place to be. Johnny, before we get you out of here, are you on some type of small aircraft or something? Where are you right now? Bell Center. Bell Center.

Classic. I love it. Tampa and Tampa. I'm on the Bell Center. Okay. There was someone chit-chattering through that whole interview. Who else? You have a stats guy up there?

Brian Moodrick? Brian Moodrick was here. He was talking. Muddy was talking. Well, he's got a big voice. Yeah. There's a big voice. MP. So she runs

the show. Yeah, like this is, you know, you get me at the rink. There's going to be background noise, though. I'm sorry. It's the best I can do. That's the way it works, man. It does kind of look like it's like overhead. Yes, overhead bins above his head. Yeah, it's like a weird kind of look there. No, that's the bell center.

Bell center, man. That'll be rock at night. There we go. Best booth in the league. Best best box in the league. It's high. Without fail. It's high up there, man. It's way up there. How many dogs do you, how many dogs do you down at intermission. I try to stay away from that.

Oh, sometimes you get guilted into one before. I'm going to go eat now. And like sometimes you walk by, you can't help yourself. They're just sitting there, just waiting for you to grab them. And like you grab one, you always grab two. Like you never have just one. If you're disciplined, you don't walk there during the intermission. You stay away from that.

But tonight, you know, I probably have two. I'll probably have two. I'm wondering what the NHL record is for someone. that was a healthy scratch that was really hung over from the night before and was a monster. I bet you somebody's had 30. 12. No. I bet you're some monster

that was healthy scratch, maybe a tough guy or something, who was 270, has had 30 dogs during a game. When they would bring in the tray, when they would bring in the tray after the game into the visiting room, how many dogs would be on that tray?

60? 80? like they'd bring a box of them in for people like there'd be a hundred for the 35 people in the dress room so yeah you can do big numbers they're very small like little one timers oh yeah i think back at the forum it's more likely though wouldn't it like i don't know about modern day athletes but you go back 30 years ago yes is true that must have been something like then that's when you really had big nights too and he didn't worry about cameras or anything it would have been crazy between cigarettes they'd be having their hot dog post game absolutely and it just blend it into the building so no one would know. I bet you some guys left the Shea and talked about breaking into the Bell Center to get their hands on some of those. Someone thought about it, breaking into the Bell Center to make

some shocks. Fire up the grill. All right, Johnny, well, enjoy yourself tonight. Say how to muddy in the whole crew. We'll do it again later in the week. All right, fellas. Have a week. There he is. Mike Johnson, joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. Get in and go where adventure takes you

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