OverDrive - Johnson on Marner's triumph against Toronto, Matthews silencing approach and the return to Toronto

Episode Date: January 16, 2026

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the Maple Leafs' defeat to the Golden Knights, Mitch Marner's performance against his former team, Auston Matthews' response to comments around Marner and his load on the ice, Marner's role with the team and more.

Here's Mike Johnson, our TSN hockey analyst, joining us here on the Maple Turtle Hotline. What's up, Johnny? How are we doing? Now, oh, you're right. I'm not sure about the compliment or criticism, but yeah, I would gladly take 22 homers, 22 goals, whatever it might be, if it wants to be six or 60. I gladly take it. Yeah, 60s is a huge amount. This is a big number.

Although I read guys that the Dodgers, despite, like, massive, massive salaries, and everything else. They are making so much money. Yeah. With all their international sales, like the growth of their business, O'Tonnie, all the rest of it, plus the wins. And, like, they are not losing money, even if they don't win the World Series, despite these huge salary at least. They're more than fine.

What would those paychecks look like? Rod Brindamore got mad at me one day because I opened the envelope and his stall with his paycheck in it, and I think he was making like $250,000 every two weeks. And I was just like, wow, man. Well, you think, my six-month season. and so 10 million a month, $5 million every two weeks, mix in some tax, so the check would be for

2.5, 2.8, every couple weeks. That's crazy. Eight. In your stall. Hey, Kyle. That's cash out the door. Out the door. Nowadays, it's direct deposit, but I've played with players. I won't name a name, but I went over to a guy's house.

There was like five checks sitting on his on his, like, dresser, like, hundreds of dollars. But the checks were like you were, there was like a million dollars sitting there. And I was like, are you going to cash those? Yeah, yeah, I'll get around to it. Like it was, I was like, it was insane. Those are the best stories. The guy couldn't care less about the checks.

The best one was Dion. I think Dion put one in a frame. Well, Ricky Henderson. Yeah, maybe he was Ricky Henderson. He put it in a frame. A million dollars. Framed it. Never cashed the thing, I don't think.

Ricky Henderson. Those are great stories I'm the greatest in the world Wasn't Ricky Henderson the guy that said I played with a guy who had a weird helmet like yours Yeah John Olerud And Olerud was like, it was me You idiot

I was on your team Yeah I was there at 93 John Olerud I used to play with a guy used to wear a helmet When he played first base Because Ollrood wore the batting helmet

In the field At first base Yeah Stinky old Ricky was like, I played with a guy that did that before. And the whole room was like, yeah, bro, it was me. We won a World Series together. I can imagine. You know?

Oh, it's so good. Close team. The winning teams are always so close. Always, always. So you were down in Vegas last night. Yeah. Man, it was a fun hockey game. It was a great, great hockey game.

If you're the Leafs, how are you feeling today about the way everything played out. I'm not feeling great. I'm not going to lie to you. Like, you can talk about the stuff they did well, and they did. They put up a five spot. They created chances. They're dangerous off the rush now. But I think, well, two things. One, the kneelander injury or aggravation, we showed it after he scored his goal.

I think he tweaked his ankle in the celebration. And the fact that that's all it took to knock him out of the game tells you that he wasn't remotely healthy to begin with, right? Like, if he was 100% fine, that little stumble would have enough. but he's not. He's trying to work through it. So that is troubling if you're the Leafs. But more than that, guys, I think we've seen

it a lot this year. And without Kenev and the D gets stretched in and the forwards the way they are and they don't play great in their own end. They have stretches occasionally, but they just don't play great in their own end. They just give up chances. Once the team

gets in there, you know, in Vegas is a decent offensive team with good offensive players, they were creating a lot. As was Toronto. The offensive side of the puck, great, but I think I would be bothered by, we had four two-gole leads, including with 10 minutes left, and Rubik summed it up. Like, you think Calum Pelley's a tough one,

I think the two-on-one, when Matthew's line went out there, right after they scored a goal, you know, that's not great fucking game management by that group. Yeah, I think they'll be more disappointed with not having won the game in regulation, because they did enough to do it,

and it sort of exposed their warts, which is, like, defending in their own end. They're just not great at it. Yeah. And it seems, you know, like when they have the lead in the third period, it really is highlighted, Johnny. You know, like they just, it's old school,

it's kind of got that Randy Carlisle-era vibe to it where they get into the third, they have a lead, and they're just not comfortable. They're not aggressive. They're not sharp with the puck. You know, a lot of just flip it out and try to survive moments. you know, try to get a change because we're all gasped moments. Like, how often did that happen?

We're like, man, you've got to get a change here. Like, that's never a good feeling. Yeah. Right at the last shift. Yeah. You're exactly right. They sort of stop playing. And that's somewhat human nature.

But teams that are more capable of sort of controlling it when they're in their own end, they can manage that a bit more. But the Leafs are at their best. I think I said it last end of the broadcast. When they defend further up the ice, right? either on their own forecheck or when they're good in the neutral zone and turn bucks over, they are dangerous. They are really good.

And you saw it last night, some of the rush attempts they had, either, you know, turnovers or forechecking chances when they get it in there. But once you get past that stuff and in their own end, and that exacerbates with the lead in the third period because, you know, you're going to sit back a bit more, the other team's going to push a bit more. And that is what the Vegas eighth come from behind third period win. And I think the Leafs have lost the most games.

when leading after two in the entire NHL. So it's sort of, you know, the perfect storm for both teams. But that's something they've got to have to clean up. And I don't know with the personnel they have, how easy that's going to be. I mean, it's sort of mindset, but it's also stability. And, you know, I don't know if they're going to have to be great at it. They can be better, but to be great, I'm not so sure. So, Johnny, you were there in Vegas.

You got the atmosphere and all of that. Talk about the, we'll call it the Mitch Marner experience, right? Because that was the thought process. both these guys were on the panel. You know, to me, it obviously was a big storyline. Was it too much? Was it, you know, did you notice him? How were the Leafs towards it?

All of that type of stuff. When you're in the building, it's a lot different than us watching it on TV. You know, I think noodles, I don't think it was too much. I mean, I think maybe factoring the importance to either team, we might have overstated, not to Mitch or not to make Nick Wah. It was a hugely important to them. like how Jack Eichael put out of the game. We knew it was important to Mitch,

so that means it's important to us. Like that's sort of a good, like we're good teammates kind of mentality, and I appreciate that sentiment. But, you know, it was a Marner thing. What was interesting, if it's any, there's ever any doubt what might happen next week. There were enough lead fans to boo Mitch Marner

when he had the puck and the power play for long stretches. Like it was noticeable, audible booze you could hear through whatever else was happening in that building, and that building's loud anyways. So that was interesting. but what I thought was Mark Masters had Tavares over the boards. He asked him a Mitch Martyr question

or two. Of course he's going to. And Tavares was very much, you know, good teammate, great person. We're moving on. We're worried about this game and our team. The Matthews one, I've had enough questions about Mitch today, thanks Mark, which was polite stern and saying, I'm over this. Like, we are friends, we had a great run together,

but I'm not getting caught up in the nostalgia about oh, my old teammate, my old buddy, my old winger. Oh, I miss him so much. I think that wasn't there at all, and I thought that was actually pretty healthy. Like that whole attitude from the Leafs regarding Mitch, and it wasn't being rude, but it's like we're not, we can't be worried about this guy. We got enough to worry about our own, and that probably was appropriate to me.

So, Johnny, just from listening to your comments there, like there is basically an uproar about Matthew's comments saying it was disrespectful, and my view on it was it was a little snarky, but I don't know, Mark Masters is a big boy. But there's the other side of it where people are like, you knew that. that question was coming, so just have the decency to answer. And my comment before in the first hour was, we give these guys crap for never being really honest, and he could have said, oh, it's going to be great battling my old friend. We'll see him after the game. As opposed he said, you know what, I'm tired of talking about this.

I'm ready for the game. Yeah, exactly right, right? We criticize them for saying nothing, and then we criticize them for saying something that we don't agree with. Like, you can't if you do. And I thought, you know, it was blunt. but he wasn't rude and maybe most importantly to me he answered the next two questions unrelated to Mitch

really well and articulated what he was thinking he didn't just sort of shut down the whole thing and you know Austin has referenced that's enough about Mitch a few times this year right remember in training camp is like that's enough of this we're not going to go do on this every day so he talked about it for a couple days and Mark has to ask it he has to and I don't think Mark Masters is offended at all he went right back

they have a good relationship I like the fact that he used Mark, that's enough. I don't really want to answer any more questions about this guy. And they moved on. So I wasn't bothered by it. The Marner attempted to, like, playfully shoot a fuck at his skates as they both skates as they both skates. Like, Austin wasn't having any of that.

Like, I think he's, you know, he wasn't worried about Mitch last night. He was worried about his team. Yeah, and I think that'll be interesting the next time. I'd rather have that, no? Wouldn't you have to have that your captain than like having a love in with this former guy and then go out there and tap at each other's shit bad? Like, we're playing. We got to have

points. It's way more important than to be buddy-buddy with your old linemate. Yeah, I get it, Johnny. I just want to chime in here quickly. I just pointed, I think people were pissed. Like, they wouldn't have a problem with it. It's the way the game ended. So they're pointing to Matthews on the last shift of the game. They're pointing to, you know, giving up the two-goal lead. And then you put in, you know, he's chippy with Masters. I think that's what compounded maybe some of the frustration or the criticism of Matthews. I always just look at it. You know, how would Sidney Crosby, how would Jerome McGillard?

Guys that I either know or how they handle it, they might have said something different. And I think Matthew is a pretty funny guy. I thought he would have been like, all right, enough with it, Mark, and move on. He was stern because he's getting ready for a game. I get it. I don't think it's that big of a deal, but I think it got a little bit more gasoline on the fire, per se, because of the way the game ended. That's kind of where I feel like some vitrials coming.

And that's the more important element of the game, right, Johnny? like he's on the ice. Eichol's his guy. Eichol beats him up the ice. He wasn't even closed. By 50 feet. Yeah, by 50 feet. I thought the draw and regulation with 40 seconds left,

that was a huge moment in the game and he got beat clean. Yeah, but hey, just for a perspective, I think he was 14 and 4 in his own end, the whole game. Yeah. Like, I know it was the big one, and Eichl did something different. He bull rushed him. Like, he crossed him and didn't even go for the puck. He just sort of slammed into him,

which maybe caught Austin off guard. But he had been really good in his own. And I do think, though, a couple different thoughts. One, I was, you know, I'm there, I'm watching it. I saw Austin when Riley missed the net, he was already buckled, right, minute 25 in a shift. He almost elected not to skate back. He was so tired, he got upright against the boards behind the goaltender in Vegas, and I need Hill, and was like, oh, my God, I can't even move.

And by that time, Michael was like, you know, top of the circles, and it didn't matter. But I think it may be the overtime strategy and philosophy, you know, we celebrate the great but we sort of criticize when it doesn't go well and they really do play in all or nothing. They are willing to give up glorious chances, breakaways for the opportunity to get a two-on-one. There is no sort of defensive

mechanism in their thought and that's a strategy, but maybe more important guys and this is worth talking about. With Tavares sort of maybe having some of the mid-season fatigue with Nieland are going to be out of the lineup now. It hasn't been out actually the last little bit at different times.

Like how much is too much for Ross the Matthews to play. Like, we know he's a horse, and he's playing awesome, and he's got great energy. 26 minutes in Colorado, really tired, and then to go, you know, whatever he was last, I don't even if the number would have been, but it would have been a big one, and he gets points in game where he just is tired. And I don't know if that's on the coach because you to put him out there. Like, I don't know how you solve this, because he needs probably a couple, three less

minutes in some of these games, and he gets himself in troubling situations, especially late when he's played already. 22 minutes prior to that. Right. It's a great question. You know, it's the Joseph Wall conundrum, you know, like Wolves are playing a lot. You're not, he's not going to play tomorrow. I don't think they've announced that, but I'd be shocked if he did.

I would assume Hilda B goes. Yeah, and he's playing, he's playing a lot. He's playing 24, 25 minutes a night, you know. It's too much. Too much. He's like, how do I feel like, let's your phrase, some guys skate deeper in the ice and some guys float on top of it? and also the great, powerful skater, but he works, right? It's not effortless ball coffee gliding.

He is chugging and working with that big frame moving it around. And when he gets late in shifts, he doesn't, even he can't go hard after a minute. He's sort of managing his fatigue. I just watch him first hand. I'm like, you know, there's, he's got, he's got to do less. They've got to ask him to do less sometimes. Well, and especially last night, four different times you got a two-goal lead. if you can't rely on your depth

when you're up two with eight minutes to go or whatever. Well, Hayes, you're in the panel with O you're working, but I was sitting there three one after one and I'm like, there's not a chance this game is over. And then I'm like, if they get to five, I feel pretty good. But even then you're like,

you knew. And that probably says as much about how we feel about the least ability to shut it down. At no point in that game that I think the game was over. That Vegas was out of it. Despite time and again, 3-1, 3-2-4-2-4-3-5-3 and still you're like 8 minutes that's enough time the way the game

was getting played the way the leads were playing and that's you know it's a new game I get it but you got to be able to defend a lead a bit more and that's not just battling and clearing pucks and making plays but also decision-making not taking penalties not giving up odd man rogers not taking bad routes making it easier on yourself than just the actual battle around the puck and around the net

So, Johnny, if you sat there and said there's no way this game is over, Brian said it on the panel, Duthy said it as well. Like, does that just mean it's a personnel issue? Like, is that what we're getting at? Or, like, it's not like you guys are, like, questioning whether these D can get to their structure. It's a personnel thing where you're like, these guys are going to give up some chances here. Yeah, yeah, but it's not just a defenseman personnel. Like, you know, it's Bobby McMahon and Max Domi, who are, talented players, but they maybe don't, you know, see the entire defensive side of the game,

as well as guys who play 18 minutes of five-on-five hockey against the other team's best players, you'd like them to, right? Like the role they're playing, they're Austin's wingers, they're playing against Jack Eichael. And they don't always, you know, see all the defensive moments in the game. You know, so it's not just the defense men. It's sort of everyone. Like, I think in Utah, you saw the defensive sort of struggle, but yeah, I mean, they'd like someone who could skate better, pass better, move the puck on their own end.

I think it's also the forwards helping the defensemen by not putting them in bad, tough spots. And it's a bit of both, oh, it's a bit of everything. With Mike Johnson, our TSN hockey analyst, you know, as for Marner himself, like, what do you make of kind of the role he plays for Vegas and how you think he'll be prepared for next week? Because last night, home ice, yes, against the leaves, but next Friday's the real dance. I mean, that's the one you circle rolling back through town for the first time. So, I mean, as far as he played well last night.

He had two assists, had another one called back. He runs the power play. It was almost like a reminder of how actually quite good he is at playing the top of the powerplay. So he can like sort of snap it around and, you know, get shooters on the sides. And even though he doesn't shoot great, he sees the ice so well. The face-off, the centerment thing is interesting because he's not great on a base-off. but he is doing a good job and offering up another layer

sort of one, two, three lines with hurdle and Eichol. So he was good. I'm sure he'd be pleased. He got a couple assists. You know, they won. He had actually a bit of a muted reaction, didn't you think, guys, when they won?

Of course, we had a camera on him on the bench when they won. And he was, like, he didn't freak out. He was sort of like, yeah, you know, he kept, he toned it down a little bit. Maybe he was trying to be polite to his former team, but that was interesting to me. But, yeah, like, he said he didn't think about last night's game

until the day before. That's not true. And he'll say it next week. I didn't think about this game until I got to Toronto. That's not true. And I had some conversation with different people, like fans around. And I thought, I'm like, yeah, he's going to get booed in this game. A lot of people like, no way.

There's no way you should get booed. I'm like, I'm not saying he should. I mean, he will. And he got booed yesterday at home. So what do you think is going to happen? And even if it's 50-50 split, the booze will drown out the cheers for a lot of the game in Toronto. And I think it will hurt him. like you know,

he's from Toronto. He played awesome there. He is probably the greatest homegrown after Jeff O'Neill, Toronto Maple Leaf ever, right? Like, like, like he literally is the greatest

Toronto-born Maple Leaf of all time. And he's got to go back there for the first time and he is going to get brushed, an avalanche of booze and negativity and vitriol and signs and all the rest. So, like,

that wouldn't feel great. Despite your own choice, to leave and everything else. So I imagine maybe open his eyes a little bit to, if he thought there was a chance, it might not be that way in Toronto. He knows now it will be. Yep, it's coming.

And we'll see if, you know, everyone's asked about it again. I think they probably will be. So what happens, Johnny, quickly, what happens when they give this shout-out video to him at the first TV time out? Do people cheer then and then they continue to boo the rest of the game? Or is it just booed like,

or do the Maple Leafs have to make a decision there? and maybe shorten that video, do something just based on some vitriol? I'm hopeful, and I actually think in that moment, they will cheer, and the rest of the game they will boo. And there'll be some booze during that moment, for sure, but I think the cheers will be louder than the booze during the tribute, and the rest of the game, the booze will be louder than the cheers. And I think that's, you know, they're going to do it no matter what,

and I think, you know, we don't have the game, but I imagine they will broadcast the whole thing live. I don't think it will even come out of break and show it. They'll probably have it live. to watch and listen and see. But I think noodles, they will cheer then and boo the rest of the way. Yeah. Yeah, someone tweeted in, Jacob tweeted in saying,

I'm going to be in the building next week. And I'm in the boo majority, but I will cheer and celebrate the video package. Okay. All right. There he is. There you go. So we're going to check on high.

It's kind of counterintuitive, but whatever. Harvey, too. Doesn't make sense. Then don't boo then. It's a weird play. Like, boo, and then, hey, great stuff, though. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't have that psyche. I was on a broadcast the other day where Thomas Shabbat stopped behind the net, and the fan was banging on the glass, like just sitting there banging on the glass. Oh, yeah, glass banger. I don't have that mentality. I'm like, what is that person doing? Yeah, not many people do. Not many people do.

There's glass bangers that just literally bang on the glass. Walking among us. All right, Johnny. We'll leave it there. We'll do it next week. All right, fellas. Have a great weekend. Mike Johnson joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline.

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