OverDrive - Johnson on Matthews' incoming meeting with Chayka, the behind-the-scenes of the conversation and Berube's placement

Episode Date: May 8, 2026

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the Hart Trophy finalists, Connor McDavid's era in Edmonton, Auston Matthews' meeting with John Chayka and the outlook of the conversation, how Matthews can lead the team's direction, the players' view of Craig Berube and more.

Springs finally here, and Julie is making the most of it, going for long walks, escaping the city and reconnecting with nature. Hey, girls. And reconnecting with her besties, one of whom is having a baby shower on the other side of the country. Switch to Canada's best 5G network and never miss an important moment. Plus, get all the data you need at a great price. Visit a bell store or bell.ca. slash rate plans. Bell, connection is everything.

All right, here's our TSN Hockey analyst Mike Johnson joining us here on the Maple Toyota hotline. What's happening, Johnny? Haysie, in no world are you and I at the same height. You think you're tall? Hang on a second. Hang on a sec, Johnny. How tall are you? How tall are you, Johnny? I am 6, 2, and 5'8s. Oh, 5 8s now. 5 8s now. 5 8s. Who adds? That's an exact number.

Okay. I don't have an exact number. We're all about numbers, Johnny. Hayes? What are you tilts? What are you tipping the... Hasey is 6-3. And 7-8s, I think it is. to be exact. This or data? Oh.

6-2, I think, flat. 6-2 on the nose, I believe. So, Johnny might have me. Are you legitimately 6-foot-2? Yes, I'm 6-2. I feel like you're 6 feet tall, maybe 6-and-change. Exactly, bro. I've been living a lie the whole time.

I must be 5-9. I just shrink it every. I don't even care if I'm 6-1 or 6-2 or 6-3. It doesn't matter, but I would have said, Hasey, 6-and-a-half, 6-5-inch. 6-2 and 6-3. Is maybe 6-3. feet, not quite. Five foot, 11, three quarters. I'm six one, dude. That's right. That's not six one.

Are you real? No. Even after this 50-year-old growth, or always? Yeah, he's moving that way. Guys, we'll get the, we'll get the measuring tape up on the wall on the overdrive studio the next time we're old. The real one, not Lindsay with the tape. Because I don't know the sprawled out tape measure on the desk is an official measurement. Right. Well, Lindsay thought this guy was. With the thing that lands at top of your head. Yes, that one, for sure. Listen, without your Skechers' lifts.

Whatever you want. You guys want to have a, we can do that anytime, and we need it to be accurate. We need someone with it. Not that Lindsay doesn't have an integrity, but she was terrified of the sketch. She didn't want to be able to work close to him.

So it was a completely... He had his shoes off on the one side. Right. Yeah, she didn't want anything to do with that. Can't blame her, really. No, exactly. So the finalist for the heart were revealed. today, and I don't think anything is surprising, McDavid Kuturov and McKinnan.

I was wondering today, I'm curious about this, because we talk always about legacies and, you know, the history of the game. And through different portions of history within the sport, there have been generations where one player has defined that generation, and there have been generations where multiple players have defined that generation. And I'm curious where you stand on this, Johnny, can anything happen to make a lot of? this anything but the McDavid era? Is there anyone close to it? Is there anyone that could share that billing with him, or is it already

a foregone conclusion? When we look back on this era, 20, 30 years from now, it will just be the McDavid era with other great players. I don't, I mean, borrowing something unforeseen is he? I mean, certainly if Nate McKinnon wins it this year, and I think he

might, and he wins a cup, then when the cup factor comes into play, then you're like, well, hang on, McKinnon had two cops or maybe three cops and two hearts and a rocket and whatever, whatever. You're like, you know, he's not quite McDavid, but because he had more team success, I think individually no. The answer is no.

I don't think anyone's going to catch up to the last 10 years. Austin had a spurt there where he was close to him. Leon's had some spurts close, Cooch, Nate, but none's, no one's really been consistently always one or two, mostly one, like Connor McDavid, except when you, you know. factor in team success. And if somehow Conner-McDavid doesn't win any Stanley Cubs and Nate McKinnons wins two or three, then we know

how hockey gets tilted toward players who win versus players who don't. That's the only thing that could possibly level this out. But no, and there's no shame in being you're in the Gretzky area, era doesn't mean you're not great, you're just not Gretz. You mean the McDavid era. You're great. You're just not Connor. Yeah.

Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think McDavid, like he's earned that based on his numbers and his play. Now, Gretzky had more hardware, like obviously team success, but also hearts. Like he won eight in a row or whatever it was. And I don't know if McDavid may not win this one. And if he doesn't, then what's he on three, I think, for his career? That'll be interesting, though, because you're right.

Like, that was kind of where I was going with this. If McKinnon gets this, gets a cop, gets a consmite, you know, that's a lot. Like, take it for what it is, obviously the four nations not being anywhere over. overly significant, but he also won the MVP in that tournament. Like, his resume is really starting to load up here in McKinnon. First overall pick, the numbers are going to be absurd when he's done. That seems like the only guy. Playoff numbers.

The playoff numbers and the points per. Now, Kutraulte's got two cups in the bank already, but I don't think he is really in contention. I think it's clearly McDavid and then probably McKinnon number two. Right? like, is he likely to be the second guy we think of when we look back on this generation? Probably, and it's funny. I mean, I have to look back at it. But I think Gretz benefited from the power of his greatness in that I think there was a couple of years where Mario maybe could have won the heart.

But Gretz got it. Not that he didn't deserve it, but Gretz always sort of got it. And there's a couple years where Connor probably could have deserved it and was hurt by the power of his great, I think there was a fatigue of, well, let's vote for somebody other than Connor, where maybe Gretz is like, we always vote for Gretz no matter what. Gretz is my favorite player. He's the greatest of all time. I'm just saying, like, you know, three seems like not enough hearts for what Connor's done for the last 10 years.

It's surprising if it's just three that it is, air quotes, only three. It feels like it would be five. But if it's not, then you have two, and then Nate would have two and your three, and it's quite close. So none of that would sway anyone to say that it wasn't Connor McDavid, the best player of this generation. I guess it's hard to maybe rack them up the same way Wayne Gretzky did, and the winning always will factor into it until that box is checked. So, Johnny, John Chica is going to be flying around, and one of the people who's going to be meeting with would be Austin Matthews.

If you had to prep three kind of principal questions that you were going to be asking Austin Matthews, why don't you rapid fire fire them at me? role play is that where we're John is this a role play I'm not going to give you the answers we don't have enough time for that but I want to know the three questions you would ask Hayes maybe you could be Austin Matthews if you want to do a quick hitter I don't know

Johnny Johnny Chica go ahead okay how do you've how have you felt about your tenure in Toronto what have you liked what have you not liked up to now A ZB.

Oh, I'm answering this, playing the role of Austin Matthews. I can't answer for him. Just continue. Just give me what else you'd ask. That's a good one. So I ask him that one. Then I ask, what do you want out of the Toronto Maple Leafs? What do you need to see to commit to the future beyond the next two years to the Toronto

and the city of Toronto? Okay. How long do you give me? to execute our shared vision of the return of the Toronto Maple Leafs to greatness if we decide that we are both going to stay together. So you're never going to ask one question about himself and his own performance and what he could possibly be? His body? Where he's at with his body?

How good are you going to be next year? Are you going to be a top three player in the world again, Johnny? Now we're just... You're fired. Peppering Mike John Chica right now. No, because, oh, what Johnny Chica is going to ask is questions that he will answer. not questions that you want to have him asked, but he won't answer honestly.

If I ask him, you're going to be good again? What about the top three guy we need you to be? You're going to be that guy? What do you think that's going to do to our conversation? And what is he going to say? Nah, that might be like 12, 13 in the league. Of course, you're like, and as far as the medical stuff, absolutely, although I don't want to trust what he's feeling.

I'm like, he's doing like the Cleveland Clinic body scan MRI, so I would know what his body's like. I know what the wrist is like, what the hip is like, what the back is like. And I know, I know what's going on there. I know why he went to Germany and what he did. This is not a mystery to Mike Johnson, but Johnny Chica knows these things.

He knows all that, so I don't want to bother. And that factors into whether I even follow up on this conversation. Let's say I know. The body's not great. That would factor into how much I'm going to build around his vision versus perhaps exploring other options. And the fourth addendum I would ask him, oh, if he says, I'm not so sure,

what teams would you like to play for if it's not the Toronto Maple Leafs? Because I need to know because I'm getting proactive. Interesting. I like that idea. It's a new segment we're doing. Johnny Chica, GM talk, executive talk. Well, what I find interesting, Johnny Chica is that the name Craig Barubei hasn't come up yet in your questioning. Where does that land on your list?

I did ask first one, what have you liked and how have you felt about your time in Toronto? Coach follows that under that umbrella. So yes, absolutely. because I would cut right to that. I kept that very general because I need to know a lot. I need to know about how he feels about the organization, how he feels about the coach, how he feels about his utilization,

how he feels about his relationship, and how he feels about living there. That all is part of what about being a leaf, but 100%. 100%. Now, oh, noodles is maybe a bit different because of a goaltender, but about positional player, I don't,

not every player has a great in-depth answer about the coach and the strategy. You know, like, not everyone thinks like that. He may, like, I didn't like it because I didn't get as many goals. I didn't like it because I played a lot of defense. But he might not sort of fully wrap his head around exactly why he didn't quite appreciate it. But yeah, Hayes, that's maybe the next stop on the private jet is we go to Austin, then we go to Craig Brubauer wherever he's at, and we, you know, we need this information to make our decision.

Because my whole thing is Johnny Chica. I am not waiting to July 1st, July 15th, August 15th. I need to know, and I need to know two weeks before the draft. And the draft is June 27th or something. So I need to know by June 10th. The answer to these questions, because if they are not what we want them to be to grow together, then we need to facilitate our time apart, which means for you, Austin, and for me, Maple Leafs,

to make it work for both of us, I need to know these things earlier and sooner rather than later. Well, that would anticipate. That would mean that there's a bit of a different tone that might be directed towards Matthews than in the past, where it just feels like for 10 years they've allowed him to do, you know, whatever, and you let's try to work something out, and we want you to be happy. Like, you've got to be pretty forceful if that's your approach. I agree with that approach.

I hope that's the way Johnny Chiker or the real John. chiker will approach it but what if matthews goes i got two years left i'll let you know when i'm ready to let you know like what are they going to do just try to proactively trade him because they didn't get the answer they wanted like i guess that's my question like i'd like to believe he's got enough respect for the team the franchise the history of it the fans his 10 years here's legacy here where if it gets to a point where he decides he wants to move on he's not going to drag it on or try to you know put them in a bad place but if he's indecisive what does that mean?

Like whatever you say? Honestly, I don't know. I'll let you know by the end of the summer. Okay. What are you going to do with that? That doesn't help you at the draft. Like, there's just no guarantee that's going to give you a timeline you want unless Chica is actually fourthful and says,

I'll be flying back down here on June 20th for an answer one way or the other. Just stand there, Jack, you can be. Go ahead, Noodles. I just, you're right. He could absolutely say that. But I guess my question would come back to, and Johnny, you can weigh in on this, is what is the mandate from Keith Pelley when John Chica got hired? Is it, hey, you know, you have complete autonomy, and he said it in his presser,

to get the Leafs back to greatness and win a Stanley Cup? And if John Chica says, you know what, it might have to, I might have to do X, Y, and Z, and it might be uncomfortable, are you all right with this? Because I already think that there are scenarios in place, and I'll give you an example. I might be wrong on this, but Craig Barubi's got a couple of, years left on his deal. If they are mindful of money, there's no, like, hey, you're not firing him day one. You're going to see what he's like. Now, John Trichen might have said, I want to see what

he's like with the team that I build. But there's no mindful of money with this operation. I'm sorry, there is. There is, oh, you, you, there is, they're mindful of money. Masai and Brennan would suggest otherwise. This is, exactly. That's, it's not, they've got nothing but resources and money. But it doesn't mean you. have to waste it like a drunken sailor. I know. But the point is, John Chike is not responsible for any of it.

Like I just, I know. I've never heard being in this city my whole life in this last 35, 40 years of the Maple Leafs, oh, you know, like, if they don't want Craig Barubi to not, like to not coach the team, he's not going to coach the team.

I don't think they give a baker's, you know what, what his salary is. Let's say it's four and a half a year. U.S. a year. What is the Bakers? Has anyone heard of Baker's, you know what before? You don't want to know the rest of it.

Bakers, can you finish that statement? There's a swear word attached to it, Johnny. There's a swear word attached to it, and it's like if Baker's doesn't, it's like a it's a bigger bleep than a usual one. Okay, I like it. I like it.

Johnny, you weigh in, but you know what I'm talking about? Yes. Yes, I think that there's some validity to do that. Now, of Austin's first thing is like, cannot stand playing for this coach. Not that he doesn't like Craig Barrabi, the person. He doesn't coach me properly. And the mandate, as Nootles is talking about,

is to bring Austin back and build around him to be competitive, then, yeah, that does factor into what they decide to do. But I think, as you take this on smoothly, Hasey, like, this is not adversarial. This is a, you know, you're trying to get to a mutually beneficial decision. And the reason why this is coming up is not Johnny Chaka thinking, and hey, you tell me what you want to do or else. You have, Austin, or Austin's camp, or whoever,

is someone who has introduced into the world that he may not want to return for next year. He's brought it up. Not me, not the team. He brought it up or his people brought it up. So if that's what he brought up, then I'm reacting to your demands, your uncertainties. I'm working with you.

So I would expect, Austin, if you are not sure about next year and we can't figure out a shared vision going forward, you don't want to be here. And yes, of course, if he says, well, too bad, I'm not making any decisions, I'm not going to let you trade me, then you are stuck.

And you're like, the problem there for, and you're not going to start scratching Austin to make it unpleasant. Like, that's not at all. But what you'd say is, listen, we're not going to be a Stanley Cup contender next two years. You have played 10 years in league. You haven't won anything.

I know that's important to you. I know you want that. So get a jumpstart on doing that in a place where you want to live and want to play. And whether you sign an extension there or not, I'm doing this for you to get you a chance to win, which you're not going to have here. So there's always a chance that he just says no. Too bad.

But the fact that this is leaked out, the fact that he wants to win so bad, the fact that he maybe wants to try somewhere else before he signs an extension there, would lead me to believe that you could work together to find, a place that he wants to go if he does not want to return to Toronto. That's essentially what I'm going to find out. Does he want to go somewhere else? If he doesn't, what does he have, what do we have to do to make him want to stay and sign?

And whether we can agree that that's a good idea or not, I'll figure that out after I have that information from him. And then we'll do the best thing for the Toronto Maple Leafs, and hopefully that's also the best thing for Austin Matthews. Yeah, that's in a perfect world. That would be the case. And I think you can make a lot of sense. of, I'm not predicting this will be the case,

but going to him and saying, hey, I'm just going to be blunt with you. I'm spending the next two years building this organization up so that we can be a cup competitor in three years. Which means, yes, you'll have to sign an extension to be a part of that. If you don't want to be, so be it.

We'll see if there's another big name free agent up in two years. But that's our plan. Like, we are going to take the next two years to infiltrate this. system with picks and prospects and youth and speed. We're going to rework our defense. I can't do it in one summer.

It's not going to happen. It's going to take me two years, but I'm going to completely turn it over, and I'm going to figure out who my two goalies are going to be, and I'm telling you right now, it can stay in this room. This will not be the coach in two years because I don't think anyone thinks Perubia will be here in three years. But the next two, there's going to be some ups and downs. Hopefully we win, hopefully we make the playoffs, and I'm going to rely on you for leadership,

but I'm going to rely on you as the captain to take McKenna under our win. and blah, blah, blah. And he may say no to that, and so be it. But I think that's important. I think that would be a great plan. And honestly, it's probably the plan to make. And if Matthews wants to be a part of it, great. Awesome.

You're 29 years old. You'll be 31 when that kicks in. Hopefully you're still a great player for the next 10 years. But that's what we're building toward. We need two years. So you're with us or not. It's your call. If you want to be, we'd love you to be a leader.

We're not going to hold it against you if you don't want to be. but we're banking on two years from now that's when we feel like we can pop and put that ultimatum in front of them and say what do you think and then you can make a call I don't want yes in an ideal world but we don't live in an ideal world

and I can't wait two years to hope that he likes it because I need to trade him but I need to trade him if he doesn't like it I can't live in a world saying I hope that it works out because it's too risky for me if it doesn't. I need to know and get it out there. However we have to get a trade done, if it's not going to work, if he doesn't sign off on

the two-year plan, the extension and all that, I need to know because I need to trade them. Because you talk about rebuilding everything, the easiest and fastest way to get that rebuild going is to trade Austin Matthews if he doesn't want to stay. What about this option? You could make some changes and say, I'm going to do this and that. and then what if he just wakes up one day and says, I don't like that. I'm still leaving. You're screwed.

You can't operate like this. You cannot operate like this. You can't operate like this. You get to run your own program the best way you see fit. And that's what I'm getting at is it's going to take a couple of years. You want to be a long time. There's only so much you can do. I talked about.

It'd be great if you can be and you want to be. But, you know, we got to run an operation here. Yeah. Well, doesn't the writing on the wall from C.J. and Elliot or whatever suggests that he doesn't want to take part in that? I don't blame him. I'm not criticizing him for not wanting to. I agree with you.

But if that's where he's at, then we've got to move forward and help each other out. Help me help you. Help me help you. Johnny Chica, I like that. And we'll go down that road and we'll see what happens. Yep. All right. Mike Johnson.

We appreciate you doing this. AKA Johnny Chica. A.k.a. Jokka. I'll do this again early next week. Otherwise, I don't give a baker's blank about what he says. Bring that ruler in next time. It's like it.

Six and seven-eighths. A baker's bleep is just better than that. No way, even with your great hair. No way you're a six-two and seven-eighth. I think he's closer to six-three. Thank you. But maybe I'm not. Thank you.

I have a lot of support online. I used to be six feet. I think you're pandering to the host. No, I'm not pandering. The shortest guy in the panel. Oh, I thought it was always a little touch taller than me. I used to be six feet. I think I'm shrunk to like 5-11.

Yeah, your normal human beings. You're shrinking as you get older. O's clamming that, you know, he's lifting as he moves into his 50s. It's sketchers. It's three inches. I'm telling you. If anyone is going to be a medical marvel of the four of us, we know what's going to be. He's going to defeat science and 10,000 years of human history.

It's going to be Jeff O'Neill. He lives longer than all of us. There's no sense. All right, Johnny. We'll see you next week. Mike Johnson. All right. The Maple Toyota Hotline.

Red Tag Degger's here. Check out the Toyota Tacoma and Toyota Tundra pickup trucks, both available as hybrids. Is it Maple Toid and your Canada's Wonderland in the Maple Auto Mall? I'm Cynthia Lois. And I'm Josie Dye. And we're done pretending we have it all figured out. Each week we laugh, cry, and talk our way through life's messiest moments. The things you think about but would never say out loud.

The questions you are always too shy to ask. Relationships, regrets, awkward moments, and the stuff no one warns you about. It's honest, it's funny, and sometimes, It gets a little uncomfortable. But that's kind of the point. This is Cynthia and Josie's unmentionables. Listen on the free IHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.