OverDrive - Johnson on Matthews' season potential, Rielly's future and Chayka's views of the roster 

Episode Date: June 25, 2026

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the Maple Leafs' next steps for the roster, Morgan Rielly and Matthew Knies' future in Toronto, Auston Matthews' outlook for the season, his chase to get back into Hart Trophy contention, John Chayka's direction and more.

Catch everything soccer with Bell's game time bundle. Get 5 TV with TSN plus 5150 internet, all for $99 a month. Price guaranteed for two years with a two-year internet and TV term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for more details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Here's Mike Johnson or PSN hockey analyst. Can you talk to these idiots, Johnny? Tell them what Kauai is trying to do here for the second time.

Please, they're too dumb to figure it out. Yeah. clearly he's trying to feign interest elsewhere to suggest he might go to a different team to get the team he really wants to go to to say okay I guess we better pony up a little bit more that's okay

yeah but let's just say let's just say the clippers hold the line like no okay go ahead we're done with you go ahead like not because it's him but if he's good and he was good last year

and you could take 80% of the game If you take 64 games a year and he plays the way he played last year for a couple of years, I don't care about retiring jerseys. He just makes the rapper as much better. That's right. So I like that because I want the rappers to be better. But Hayes, if you were to ask him, where do you think on career milestone goals, having a number retired in Toronto's ranks?

I got to believe he can care less about statues. I think you're right. Let me ask you this part. I think you're right. I'll ask you this part. Do you not think that Kauai Leonard deserves his number in the rafters and a statue out front for his performance to winning the title? I do.

Go ahead. Not a chance in the world. No. I do not. Thank you. You're just like him. You're disgusting. That's why we have.

One year. We can recognize him. Oh, if there's, okay, in my hierarchy of a recognition, statue out front or Legends row is the crem de la Crem. then jersey then ring of honor I don't know if the raptors you can have a ring of honor

but if they did oh I'll give you that I'll give you a recognition on the ring of honor but he's not getting his jersey retired he played 80 games I know they won their only chapter with him but there's just not enough time no I want to know how this greatness and his role

it's just not enough you want to know how this idiot brought me into this show when we first started working together he goes this is Jeff O'Neill his statue on Legends role is in Barry. That's how far away it should be. I thought it was in Guelph. He said Barry.

Going north. He said Barry. Going north. It goes up to 400. Yeah, I said you'd be around Barry. That's when they'd get to your statue. And the team's been around for 100 years. But here's my last thing on Kauai.

You know why I actually am not jilted or bitter about this? or I would not be bitter about him returning because he won when he was here. And like when you hear other players, like we've had it with former Leaf players. Ah, this guy might think about coming back. How would you feel? And those scenarios, sometimes I'm like,

I don't want that guy to come back. Like it's done, it's been buried. It didn't work. You didn't win when you were here. And you left. Get out of here. I don't need a redemption tour. I wouldn't look at it that way with Kauai.

I wouldn't look at it like, oh man he's throwing us a bone because he left us. It would be like a continuation of the celebration seven years later. Like, hey man, when you were here, it was incredible. You won. It was the greatest season in the history of the franchise. Come on back. That's how I would feel about it.

Open arms for Kauai. Wow. So open arms for any player, they'll make you better. How about it? And the thing about Kauai, I think sort of everyone came into the one-year relationship with their eyes wide open. Like he didn't pull the rug out. I mean, he might have been leveraging

deals and trying to, but everyone knew he wanted to leave after a year, but he's going to play his butt off when he's here, and he did. So he can't sort of hate him because he was up front about it. I think everyone who needed to know was aware what was likely going to happen. And keep in mind here, folks, though,

on this particular show, we did the OJ watch. We did the Kauai watch when he was driving down the Gardner and went to like the Hazleton Hotel, I think, in Yorkville, wasn't it? That's right. Hazleton won. Yes. We went right down Yorkville.

Yeah, it was quite a watch. We were like scorned girlfriends watching. And then he got on the bird and got the hell out of here and left and never came back. So I don't know. There is that particular. It was a rough way to go out. Like literally the first time ever, I think, a guys won a championship and said, we'll see you later.

I'm out of here. It was a tough, tough thing. He had the decency to go to a Jay's game and act like he was a happy. Remember we saw him at home? A lot of people caught him at Home Depot, I think it was. He was getting boxes. To pack his stuff. Do you remember the other one?

His girlfriend or his wife or whatever, they were down at Niagara Falls taking in the falls. That's right. Yeah, a little family trip. Nothing wrong with that. I know how that combo went. He was like, we better go show the kid the falls before we get out of here because we ain't ever coming back. We never go again. Well, maybe they come back this time.

Maybe seven years later. It's all good. Well, Johnny, we were. trying to dissect the John Chica presser today, where it sounds like Morgan Riley's going to return. Anthony Stolars is prepared to start about 55 games next year. And Matthew Nyes couldn't possibly give up him. Obviously smoke screens. Obviously, he's not going to lay out his plan publicly.

But what are you buying? What are you selling in terms of what is being reported in the rumor mill when it comes to the Maple Leafs over the next couple of weeks? I'm buying Stolar's wanting to play 55 games and the team wanting him to play 55 I don't know if I'm buying whether his body will let him but I can see them sort of in their mapping out the year

To be clear Two out of three John didn't say that I'm putting words in his mouth He didn't literally say that I just want to clarify that Go ahead But I think Stoley be the number one starter

And play a low starter share which is 50 games. I think that would be what they would like to map out. I buy that. Morgan Riley returning, you know, if he gave a, you know,

I regret that he'd given up four Western conference teams that he might be willing to go to. Maybe John Chica is just preparing the market for no move if it doesn't work out. And Morgan Riley coming back, I would imagine that's not what they would like to happen.

You don't approach a guy with a no move, to waive it without the intention of moving him. You don't bother going through the process unless you intend and are willing and sort of want to move him. So he might be coming back, but I don't think that's what they want to have happened. And that's nothing against Morgan Riley. He was just the best guy ever, but it's just, I think both parties were going to move on. The Matthew and I's one to me is interesting guys.

And, you know, we've talked about it at length and we throw his name out in trade proposals, not because we think he's not good, not because he's not amazing, not because the Leif's don't want him, but because he was available in some capacity at the deadline, and given the prices for good young players, you have to be willing to look at anything. And he would be

a guy that every team in the league would want. So if you could address five other needs for one guy, you would want to do it. I think they absolutely do not want to trade Matthew Nyes, but they absolutely would not be doing their job if they're not going to listen to San Jose say, we'll give you the second overall and this,

like whatever it might be for him. So you don't want to trade him, but you're not Brett's he wasn't off limits. Matthew Nyes certainly is not off limits. Anyone can be dealt for the right price. Even if you're not shopping him, you're listening to calls as you should, as

you have to. Absolutely. The name Vinny Trocheck has been out there, dating back to the trade deadline. It sounds as if the Rangers are open and moving off him. He's got a new agent now, maybe trying to gain some control on where he could end up going.

What kind of value do you see in him? Because the Leafs have been linked to that pursuit to an extent. He's a good player, Vinay Trochec. I mean, he can do a lot of things quite well. And he has still three more years, right? At a very reasonable number. He is getting up there in age. What is he, mid-30s, 32, 33 now.

So he would be great. If you're looking for a transition plan for a few years and to kind of have like Tavours be a three-sat-three-C or maybe be a winger or whatever, Trocheck coming in as your second line center for a couple of years with Austin as your number one. Very good defensively, very good on face-offs. He plays well with other good players.

So presumably he had great chemistry with Panarin. Could he create that chemistry with Neelander? Whatever it might be. Yeah, but he would cost a lot. At five, six haze for that kind of player, don't you think first rounder plus to get him out of there? And have him agree. He has a modified no trade.

So he'd have to agree to come to Toronto, which I don't know if he would. But don't you think he'd be first plus a pretty good prospect or something, a pretty good player to get him out of New York? But he'd make your team better, and he would make sense in Toronto. Yeah, I mean, I agree. He would be. And small layer, maybe it's 5%, but you have to make sure the intention of an American player wanting to come to Canada, all that type of stuff.

I mean, that has to be factored in nowadays, you know, given the temperature, and we see that. You know, Johnny, I wanted to more look at kind of the bottom of the roster a little bit. When you think of a guy like Nick Robertson, I think he needs a contract. You look at, you know, situations like that. What do you make? Like, he's a real, I think a fascinating case study for me because he's, you know, he's not 19 anymore, but given opportunities, he has been able to show that he could score some goals.

So you think it's just as easy to, you know, try and bridge him, get a couple-year deal and see what you have there or would you move on for them? Depends how you see your team look at noodles, right? Like if your third line's going to be an attacking, sort of we're going to be a good defensive line because we're going to have the puck and try to take advantage of premium matchups. Well, Nick Robertson has scored,

even in his limited role, largely five on five, like a 20 bowl a year pace. I love throwing out the, you know, five on five points per 60. And he's like second or third on the Leafs. Goals for 60. He's second to Austin.

That's not to suggest you put him on the first line. He'll have the same rate. He won't. He won't score 40. He's not, but if you want a bit of dash lowering your lineup, as opposed to a bit of meat, he's totally worth it.

And I don't know what his, you know, take him to arbitration. What did he get? Four and a quarter. Yeah. Something like that. Three, seven, five. I could live with two arbitrations in a row and just kind of kick the can down the road

and see how it works out, depending with the new coach and Austin and Stiles and GMs and all that. But I'm not giving him away. Goals are hard to come by. He's far from a perfect player. But he can do things about putting the puck in the net that the Leafs will need

to be done. And I think the way on a play is putting the puck in the net. So I would not extend him long term. What is the circus? Nick Robertson being scratched in,

all that stuff. Like, it's a circus. Wow. I mean, you got Machelli there too, right? Like, what are you going to do with him? Like, do you want both those guys, one guy? I mean, circus for him personally, I guess. Oh. Okay.

So if you're going to get rid of Machelli, like, then you definitely are going to keep Robertson. Like, you need offense. And while it's a circus for Nick, oh, you played long enough, right? I'm trying to think a player, like a tweener player. Like, he's not really a checker, but he's probably not quite good enough to be a top six score.

And so he does a bit of both and sort of miscast in each, but still a good NHL player. And he's always sort of shuffling, trying to find, and maybe on a worst team, he gets that top six role, Bobby McMahon. But on a good team, he can't. And then he ends up in Toronto in and out a lineup, and it's hard on him. But I'm not going to give him away because life's hard on him. Like he's done well in that role. I'm going to challenge him to keep doing well, and I'm going to keep him around. Yeah, like my assessment of him is that he can do some incredible things.

things with the puck. He can fly down the wing and rip home a goal. Takes incredibly stupid penalties, makes some really goofy decisions at, like really stupid penalties. Like, minute left in the period of a two-two game, he'll slash somebody's, like, I'm not going to get into the details.

And he has a difficult time contributing anything to the game if he's not scoring a goal. You know what I mean? Like, he doesn't really, like, get on his horse and get on the forecheck and cause turnovers, does not run anybody over. And at times the decision-making

and defensive play is Gonzo. So does he score enough where he's like he's a value? I mean, is a swing guy like that you can put in and out of lineup in case of injury, in case of slump, in case of message sending worth having around? Part of it

also might be if they get Vinny Trocheck, then they got three scoring lines. If his sentiment is you know, Bo Gru or Jacob Quilling, respectfully, you're probably not going to get a lot out of him in that role, right? They're not going to generate very much, so maybe you're better off getting

you know, another more physical traditional checker. It sort of depends on how you envision the third line playing because that's where he likely would be slotted. And we never ever talk about Machialli, but they do have to sort of, I think he's an RFA, right? They'll have to figure out what they want to do with him. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they've got to figure

that out. 25 years old. With Mike Johnson. So I was talking about McDavid today, you know, and how, I guess you caught up with with Rashog, he caught up with Sportsden, I believe, and did a couple of interviews about, you know,

why Mike Babcock's the right coach and why he's such an advocate for it. And I don't recall the last time a player has been so associated with the pursuit of a coach ever. I mean, I really, I can't think of anyone. Messier, Mike Keenan.

Maybe. So that's 30 years. Rangers? Yeah, that's 30. 32 years ago? I'm just, like, I don't know, off top of my head, maybe? I don't know. Like, isn't this, like, what is at stake for him, McDavid, the Babcock experience? Because he is not, he's not playing the, hey, they run the team, I play game. Like, he's not doing that. He's basically saying, I chose Mike Babcock and they hired him.

That's kind of my read on the situation. How much is he risking in all of this? Yeah, I mean, I don't know if that's the correct read, although I do believe if he said not a bloody chance, I'm playing for Mike Babcock, he would not have been hired. Like, I don't know if he made them hire him, but he could have made him not Irum had he said no way. I believe that, given how much power he has.

The way Connor, and I even think historically, like, let's say it blames out. It goes awful. Whether the team does poorly, Honor ends up with 86 points and they don't do well, or worst case scenario, Mike Babcock doesn't make it through a whole year because something

happens. I think people will look at Connor saying and they will look at him through a positive lens in that he's so desperate to win. He'll try anything, including hiring a guy that he knows is not going to be easy on him or maybe a lot of people who has a pass

that is checkered to say the least. And he's willing to do that. And they look at him that way, he's like, look at how bad he wants it. As opposed to look at the bad decisions he's making because he wants it so bad. I don't think it goes down that road. But they are for sure linked.

And whatever success they have or lack of success, it'll be sort of Mike Babcock the coach, and the leadership group led by Connor McDavid that wanted them. And if it goes great, they're geniuses. If it goes poorly, they've got some egg on their face and some, you're not explaining to do, but whatever the fallout of that is,

and maybe that's Connor leaving Emmetton, who knows. But that's probably maybe part of it too. Like, he's like, I got two years. Let's find out if this, we haven't had something quite like this. Let's try it. See if it works. And if it does, great if not. I'm off somewhere else.

Johnny McDavid's got, you just mentioned two years. Austin Matthews two years. Do you think that both teams are just kind of rolling on the dice with those guys? Because it seems like everybody else with two years, it's like you think you're going to be signing next year. And if you're not, we're going to move on from you to optimize the value. Do you just think that, like, how do you think things,

we haven't really heard from Austin Matthews. There was some noise about two months ago and then it died down. How do you think the scenario was going to play out with 34? just heading into this season and in the future. I think the Leafs are not going to go the Quinn Hughes route. Because I guess Austin didn't say I'm leaving for sure. So he's like, I got to figure out based on how we're doing, how I'm doing, what happens. And the Leafs are basically saying, we're going to convince you to stay because we're going to be good.

We're going to do the things that you with that. How careless is that approach, Johnny, to say, oh, we're going to promise you we're going to be good. and you make a bunch of, you know, very expensive transactions to try to do that, and then it doesn't work out, and then he goes, screw this, I'm out of here. Like, is that not careless kind of behavior to be running a hockey team like that? You don't have to, like, hypothesize this. That's Vancouver. Just look at Vancouver.

That's exactly what happened. They signed Demko and Besser, and they brought all these guys and gave him term to try to keep Quinn who's around. Quinn Hughes left. teams are the worst team in the league and now they're on a seven-year rebuild. Financially for the team, I think like the ownership of the team likes the idea of Austin being around for as long as possible, maintaining that competitive edge that they would have because he's there

and will prolong the time required to rebuild as long as possible. I think that's like an ownership thing, not even up. We talk, oh, in hockey terms. I think they're talking also in business terms. What do you think Austin Matthews has to bring to the table as a player to say, you guys have done your behind-the-scenes transactional stuff, and this is what I'm going to bring to the table as a player to help this process along?

What do you see as a successful season from the captain? Well, it starts with being healthy. I don't, we don't, I'm not pretty easy to his. Let's assume he is healthy. I don't know. Like, his version of healthy or his earlier version of healthy? They might be two different things. I'm talking as healthy as me.

Perfectly healthy. Oh, specimen. Okay. All right. Well, then I think he's got to score 50 goals. He's got to be one of the top two or three goals scores in the league. He's got to get 90 points, and he's got to carry play at five on five. I don't care who he plays with.

I don't care what system they play. That's what he's got to do if he's healthy, and that would be a good year for him. And if he does that, guess what? The Leafs are going to make the playoffs. Like they will. With the changes they're going to make and better help from their goalies, they'll make the playoffs if he can do that.

I don't know if he can do that. I'm not sure about his health. But I think there is yes. The point you're making is a good one. The onus is not just on the team to make changes, revamp the roster, change the coach, change the system. It's also on the players led by Austin Matthews to take all that stuff and maximized by playing incredibly well.

And he'll have to do that. Just to clarify, you're saying if Matthews is Matthews again, they're going to make the playoffs. Yes. Who's coming out of the playoffs in the Atlantic? I think Todd would take a step back. We're not looking at the negatives, Jamie. We're looking at the positives now, aren't we? I love that.

like a great take. What's Tampa going to be? What's Tampa going to be? No Victor Headman. You know, you know, like a lot of things that went, like even, I have said like, re-racked Toronto's team last year as bad as it went. Put them right on the ice again. I bet they're, they're almost an eight spot. Like everything that went and the fact that they mailed it in the last 20 games.

Like they mailed it in. Yes. Like once they were out, the last 10, 12, it's awful. No one goes 2-10 down the stretch if it matters. They're out and they mailed it in. So, yeah, I think of Austin Matthews is a heart finalist caliber player, Hasey. Yeah, I think they make the playoffs. I love it.

I love it. And if their goaltender doesn't, and if their goalie stays remotely healthy. Yeah, for sure. You know what? It's a great thing, but I would like to see more D and defense and more players, too. It's not just Austin Matthews having a great season. they need a lot. What about the D-Man?

What about the D-Man? What about the D-Man from Philly, Jamie? Amia L'A? You know, they got a sign of still. He's an RFA. And Radish's two players. What about Chris Tenev, guys? What about Chris Tanev?

There's a free player. There's a pre-player. But if Chris Tanev comes back and plays even remotely like he did before, yes, he's a year older, but his hockey body is not a year older. It's probably fresh than it's been in a long time. Like, how much better does he make everyone? We saw how great he was the year they won the division. So get him back in the lineup for 75 games.

So, I mean, yes, there's if, if, if much of it's health related. But if those guys play, you got Tannib, you got McCabe, you got Radish, whatever happens with Riley, you got Ekman, Larson, and Andre. It's different. I mean, three different players, right? Radish, Andre, Tannab, already three different defenders will play. Maybe four if they trade Morgan Riley or do something else. they got 20 million bucks

they are not entering the season with $20 million in cap space. Yes they got to sign some forwards but you know there's going to be other players coming and I factor that in when I say if Austin is a heart finalist they will make the playoffs. Love that. Or heart finalist caliber. Now we're

having a show. Now we've got something going. Now we got so let me get this straight. Austin chasing a heart next year and Kauai back leading the raptors The Jays are going on a Everything's coming together The Jays are going on a heater

The Jays are going on a heater starting tonight And everything is And Canada is going to smoke South Africa on Sunday Smoke their asses, man Let's go Everything's coming together Positive Thursday Positive Thursday

McKenna is going to win the rookie year Go ahead Oh dog a week ago you said The Leafs had zero chances making the playoffs next year. I don't think I said that a week ago. You literally said that a week ago. You said this team is no good.

They have zero chance to make of the playoffs. You said that a week ago. Johnny's an influential guy. Johnny's an influential guy. A long time ago, noodles. You're right. Apologies. Hey, Jim Hiller, we had him on last week.

Great guy. Like really good interview. Jim was great. I love that. He's going to do a weekly hit with us. He's going to do a weekly hit with us. Darren Rattish. Actually, ask Johnny about my question about why the hell of assistant coach is not talking now?

Like, what is going on there? I think it's ridiculous. And we used to have spotter on. We used to have, that's not a league thing. That's a leaf thing. It's a leaf thing, right? Yeah, it's a leaf mandate. They don't allow assistant coaches.

It wasn't a Babcock thing. No, it was a Lou. It was a Shanahan Lou thing. I think it was a Babcock thing. He did not allow assistance. Yeah, he did not want. He didn't want assistant coaches to kind of relay a message that old Mike Babcock didn't want out there. But it might have been a shanty thing.

It might have been a Lou thing. But it just – Well, no, Jamie. Maybe Bab's wife called him and said, don't let the assistant coaches talk. You never know. I know for a fact, when I was an assistant coach, they would be like, you've got to go out and do media today. You got to go and you've got to go talk to the morning scrum or whatever. Like it's – it doesn't happen.

It's ridiculous. That's something that has to change with the Leaf. I don't anticipate it will. But I'm with you. You guys, even down at the rink, like I'm at the rink every day calling games, I only get access to the Leaf's assistant coaches when they're walking on and off the ice.

Like if I happen to be in the hallway, we cross past, we have a stop and chat. Like, nothing. Maybe in the back hallway, they're on the phone call and they hang up and say what's up. Like, that's, you get nothing. Yep. And you think in,

Toronto with the media requests just to like spread it around. Let the other guys take it on. But they just, it's all the same message. They just say not act like it's. Yeah. They say no to every request though. That's the problem. Like their answer is just no one will do anything.

Ridiculous. You know, but anyway, we'll see. Things are changing, right? The Leafs are going to the playoffs next year. So now I'm in a good move. Here comes Kauai. Kaui Leonard, Gavin McKenna, Matthew's chasing the heart,

leaves are back. I love it. I love the way this is going to turn it around tonight. Yep, yep. Plattie's going to be on a heater starting this evening. All right, Johnny. Good stuff, buddy. I love the positivity.

We'll do it again soon. All right, fellas. Have a good weekend. Close your eyes. And you can hear the entire world come alive. 2026 FIFA World Cup is on. And you can stream it all live on TSN Radio. From the opening kickoff.

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