OverDrive - Johnson on McDavid's suspension length, Nylander's offensive role and Woll's stature in the crease

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the NHL, Connor McDavid's cross-check suspension and his Hart Trophy outlook, the Maple Leafs' win against the Lightning, William Nylander's role on the team, Joseph Woll's stature and more.

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Details at iHeartRadio.ca Joining us here on the Maple Torta hotline, here's Mike Johnson. What did you make of three-game suspension for Connor McDavid? I'm freaking out about it! Nice. out about it. So listen, I thought it is longer than it would be. I thought he would get one and Myers would get two. I know the Vancouver people wouldn't like that, but to me, just watching it, Myers felt more dangerous, more violent, more likely that something bad could have happened. But anyways, enough about, you know, but three is a bit surprising.

The fact that they're the same, not that surprising, but I would have done it a bit different. And as far as Leon goes, I heard you guys talk about it. I think what he was trying to say, Hayes, was the league doesn't care about their top players being on the ice in as much that, well, the suspension's too long, but if you were to call penalties, then wouldn't get frustrated and he wouldn't do something

that would get him suspended. Could there be an element of that to it where it's like you know if you just don't let him get tackled then he doesn't have to punch someone in the head or cross check somebody in the head which he warrants which more it's a suspension we all agree but it's more you know not protect us the stars don't need an extra better set of rules. They don't need like the quarterback rules. They just need the rules, not extra rules, just the rules. And I sort of dug into this a little bit for McDavid.

So he's always in the top five, understandably, in penalties drawn every year, right? He has a pocket ton. Why wouldn't he be? This year he's down like 47 why is that did the teams figure out how to defend him now and then I think as many penalties no he's just not getting as many calls and I wonder if the elbow on Johansson the high the cross check to Garland if it's sort of mounting frustration that he's like I'm getting fouled more than ever because he has the fuck of the offensive zone more than any Other player in the league so he has in the spots where you're gonna get fouls

And he has no but he's not getting the same rate of calls It doesn't make a lot of sense so I'd be that third game Johnny is Maybe the third game is the elbow tax in Minnesota. It's like there. That's this this one's from, Minnesota Well, right and he must have spent it once before what three years ago or five five five years ago and five three years ago Whatever it was so he has been On the carpet before but you're right like that elbow was pretty cheeky dirty as well I just wonder if it's like could this be if you're an oiler fan a net

positive Because yes, you miss it for three three games so that's not going to be good but if it draws attention and spurs a conversation about wait a second do we are we calling fouls on the top players the way that we should or are we are we letting too much go if that conversation happens and somehow the Oilers get back to the even the same rate of power plays that they had last year that's going to help them down the stretch into the playoffs. So maybe, maybe this conversation that the league might be having about, okay,

wait a second. Should we call Connor Garland for the figure four leg lock before it gets to the cross check? That conversation might actually help Connor McDavid in the long run. We have had some McDavid heart debates on the show over the last week, week and a half. If you had these two options, which would you choose? He will 100% win the heart trophy or he will 0% chance he wins the heart trophy. Which

would you side with? I love your absolutism. You have to take one or the other. It's far more likely that he does not win it than he wins it. Yes. Far more likely. That's correct. And I think missing three more games is not going to help him. Nick McKinnon is not slowing down with 74 points now. Like he's rocketing away. Maybe the Euler split between Dreisel and McDavid would hurt him. No, it's hella buck. It warrants consideration this year. rockery away maybe the order split between dr felonica did what her did not it hello buck in warrants consideration this year like there's a lot of reasons why even if you play every game let alone the thing

i mean he was three game class only have one thirty six what's your many jerry's on mcdavid many jerry's on mcdavid heart major okay uh... twenty seven twenty seven percent too high for me man. I'm at 1% that's ridiculous No, it's not ridiculous because let me here's why first of all Johnny you should be ashamed of yourself You know what a mini Jerry's is

I'm a first-time longtime come on I know but I've been very scarred. Oh what a mini Jerry's is man you got a disease. You gotta get a life man quickly quickly um the bar is set so high for him. What about the people who come up with a mini Jerry? I don't know man I don't know. Very valid but he set the bar so high that he he just he has to have such an extreme season to win it. He doesn't, he's fifth in the league in scoring. Yeah, that's not gonna do it for him. Yeah, if he's first, is he not gonna win? If he's first by a point, he's not winning the heart.

That's a ridiculous thing. He's not gonna win the heart. He's not going to. Not if he doesn't score 45 goals. Right. That's the problem, because his goal rate is down that they'll give the heart to Hellebuck unless it's a Supernova.

Hayes, I hate to admit it, has a point because he'll give it to a different guy unless he goes supernova or maybe... Now, if he had the same number of goals as Dry Settle or McKinnon and one more point and Hellebuck wasn't having this year, then yeah, we could have that conversation. He might win it, but he doesn't. He's not scoring at that rate. So I'm with you. I think you'd have to win the scoring race by Whatever. Yeah, he has to laugh the field like two more goals than McKinnon. Like I don't understand Yeah, and he's how many points behind nine points behind them. Yeah, I'm just saying like he goes on a heat But it's not just McKinnon. He's competing with he's competing with other players who are also in the chase for the heart like dry

Settle who I think I Jonas how about this? Yeah? How much do you have to... This is an interesting conversation, just based like value of goals versus assist. So let's say Dry Settle. How much do they have to outscore Dry Settle to make up for the deficit in goals? Like if Dry Settle has 10 more goals, does McDavid need 20 more points? Is it 2 to 1? Is it 10 more goals? 15 more points? Where is that line drawn? It's probably around there, but as you know, so much of this is narrative. Like McKinnon, you don't really win back to back unless you're like crazy, right?

But he's a rock. He's in his prime and rocking right now. He is disgusting. Yeah. Like I hear what you're saying. It's not easy to do but he is it's the store like i hate to say it but the story goes into this yeah that's been that's what that's what i'm driving a more than anything i was

zero percent one percent car yes because i think the narrative is too much of a climb for him because he's so clear cut the best player and he's already won three what's the narrative against a date mckinnon back-to-back that's going that's the wave against McDavid? Yes, I think the Hellebuck narrative is significant. I think if they win the President's trophy. Gole's never won the heart, never really won it. They've won it. They've won it before. Harry Price won it, Theodore won it, Hasek won it. That's three people. Yeah, that's three in the last 30 years. Yeah, that's not a lot. Okay, but it's not like it doesn't happen. It rarely happens. Well, Jonas, when

they make up 10% of the roster and they get 10% of the awards, it's actually probably proportionally appropriate. Yeah, actually that's a good point. Yeah, I mean, listen, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Helba could win it this year, right? I think it's just unlikely. And even Dry Settle's case, I think will gain momentum at the expense of David. That's the one. Yeah, that's the one that's the one that's the one word is that you ever come on what i'm gonna do is you better come on with noodles and tell us what's not happening we were getting you on on friday we're gonna talk you're gonna say exactly what you just said to noodles and watch out

dude watch out yet noodles has got mary line and winning the you better book jones on friday for a hockey talk how he's gonna blurt that out with Noodle's and he's gonna get it How come there's never a campaign for defensemen to win the award? Why is it just goalies? Who would be who would be your number one defenseman? Well, you'd say mckinnon, but what about mccarr? Worenzki on value. Yes, worenzki for value if you want to go by definition not just best minutes

Valuable if columb Columbus gets in the playoff, that guy scores 25 goals and gets 80 points, and the next best guy to team is 10, 15 points behind him. That's a narrative. Give him all the trophies. Man, he plays almost 27 minutes a night. 27 minutes a night. Crazy what he does for that team.

That team is not good, but they're playing well. A, it's worthy because of how he's playing but be the narrative is so extreme exactly right and you've got to kind of tie the two Yeah, I just I and this three games a three game suspension takes McDavid off the ice again. He had the injury I just think it's a it's just like if he gets two and a half points again or some crazy number the rest of my Year, he he just run away with it. He will not run away with it. It will not be unanimous.

There is nothing he can do between now and the end of the year that would make it unanimous. That I will say definitively. He would have to score, how many goals do you have right now? 20. You have 20? Okay, so he will come back with what, 34 games left or something like that? I don't know, he's standing right in front of me. If he got 50 something goals, like if he scored a goal again the rest of the way

and one scoring in the scoring race, okay. Like he could win it then. But it would take something pretty, better than 1% Hayes is being a little bit over reactive. But it's not a good chance. I'll give it that much. It's not a good chance. I am, I am seeking attention, you're right.

That's what Josh said. That is very accurate. It's a very selfish look at me take. But I've made a career off that, so I'm gonna try to keep going here if I can. Stick with it. Who would be your top five? For MVP right now?

That's how you- In no particular order. Or in a particular order. Ah, it's too tough on the fly. It would be McKinnon, Halibuck, Tricidal. Kuturov, Vorensky, Marner, Quinn Hughes. I guess I put Mc... I don't know.

I guess McDavid. He's been phenomenal, but I think Dreisaitl has been more valuable to that team this year based on his stats, goal scoring, the importance of it, him being there all the time, McDavid again with the brief injury. I don't know. I mean, you look at points, points like Marner's what fourth in the league in points fifth I would like doesn't it feel like there's like sort of Hellebuck McKinnon Dreissel would be on every single person yes that's right and then it's like we could talk about Wren ski we could talk about McDade McDade would be on most I

think yep but then Kutrow what he's he's done, you know Kuturov, Marner, Moransky, Quinn Hughes, would also I think that would sort of make up the the next group. And you would split though like you could make a case kind of for or against you know all those guys. For sure and you know you look at where the Leafs are at now Johnny like now they lost three in a row in regulation now they went three in a row in regulation, now they went three in a row, and all of a sudden they're they got a five-point buffer on Florida, they're what are they five points behind Washington, but they're second in the East and they're starting

to score a ton of goals, like everything's kind of coming together all of a sudden for the Leafs. So was Willie Nylander right the whole time? Like what's the big deal? Relax. Like apparently he had it all figured out. Don't worry about three games without scoring. I think the most impressive and maybe the most important thing Hayes is that the way that they had been able to score these last few games. Because I'm watching the game the other night, whatever last night I guess guess it was and How many rush chances did they create last night?

For a team that is one of the worst in the whole league at creating rush chances, right? Matthews first go off the rush nice goals off the rush. Newlanders breakaways off the rush That was what we used to see that was reminiscent of the old Toronto Maple Leaf So if you can mix that with the attention to detail and better goal-tending and all that other stuff, that becomes the dangerous team. And the team with greater margins that can have an off-knighted net,

can have a quiet power play, can give up a penalty-kill goal, and still win if they can mix in more often. That to me has sort of been the revelation of the last week. Where has this been and why is it coming out now? But that was impressive. And they've sort of been able to turn it up when they wanted to.

And I think so much of it, and we've said it all along, right? Let's evaluate this team when Austin Matthew looks healthy. And he's so good that he can make across the board sweeping differences to how the team plays, to how they look, their underlying numbers, their wins and losses. And to see him skating through the neutral zone, flying like that, making plays, skating away from guys, it's different. And when he's different, the team's different.

Yes. Johnny, can you talk on really like ice level william neil and are dialed in uh... like i've been so impressed with this guy and there were times early on do you remember when there was move william neil and are for brett pesci talk like that combo was out there it's like it we gotta get a defenseman in the landers the guy to go like when he cracks it up and he's bogeying like that and he's got some kind

of skill feels like a physicality we'll call it it's it's pretty damn good like as far as you played right wing too like that's that's as good as you can play right wing yeah because you don't get it all the time right play on the wing no matter how and so you got to pick your spots and I think that's what he is so brilliant beyond the skills you just talked about, oh, he's such a good skater. Like did you see him shed Lane Hudson, who's a good skater? He's like, get off of me, please. Don't even bother trying. See him pull away last night for a breakaway. The speed, the edges, the power. But to me, it's the timing where like even like last

night one, probably not the perfect geek-harbono defensive route. But he recognized, I'm not the last guy back. I think there's gonna be a turnover. I'm gonna go, because if there is, I'm gone. And I think the Leafs and every team in the league will live with that decision by that player. Now, Steven Lorenz can't make that decision, because even if he gets it,

it's not gonna be the same result. But with a knee-lander, he can. especially with Tavares out, when you're playing with Holmberg, McMahon, it's got to be quick strike stuff. You're not going to cycle guys and get chances. But he knows this. And I think the ability to kind of time it and be sort of that lightning quick strike offense that the Leafs desperately need at times, it's really, really impressive. And he looks like he's not skating as fast as he can, and yet no one's catching him or stopping as fast as he has

or closing gaps on him. He's an unbelievable skater and his timing, oh, is what really makes it so impressive because he gets chances that other guys who he don't see aren't willing to take. So I'm glad you're on here, Johnny. I'm glad you're in here, Jonas, because I'm gonna say something here that I think I know Jonas will disagree with. Johnny, I've been told to be nice, so I'll try. No, no, no, hey, listen, I want honest, truthful Jonas here.

Joseph Wall has given up three goals or more in five straight starts, and I think it's the best five game run of his career All right, because he's playing and there's no question if he's playing and he's making big stops when he's supposed to make big stops And you look at it against Tuesday Thursday Saturday Monday four games and seven nights. No questions No, who's going in, is it Matt Murray, maybe we'll put in, you know, whoever it's going to be. Is it Hill the Beast, is he going in? No it's not. It's Joseph Wall, he's playing, he's going to battle for Pucks, he's going to make sure

that if you give him a lead he's going to close the door. The stats don't look great. They don't. His state percentage is dropping, goals against is going up, that's more of a team stat. So what's your statement? Yeah, goals against is going up. That's more of a team stat. So what's your statement, Hazy? Yeah, what's the hypothesis here? My statement is this is an example of how stats are completely irrelevant at times. What a ridiculous statement.

It's not because if I'm Craig Borubey... Listen to the man, Jonas. Hazy, you're out of the floor. If I'm Craig Borubey, I feel better about Joseph Wall today than I have at any point all year, including when he had a 927 state percentage. I love what I'm seeing I'm seeing right now. You are looking at the wrong stats my friend. Oh really? Oh give me the stats that Craig Baru never cared about. We have these stats called expected goals above. Oh saved okay. Saved above expected whatever the heck you want to call it. Yeah. If you look at those in the last little bit they look pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Because he's

stopping high quality chances. There you go. He's facing a lot yeah yeah because he's stopping high quality chances there you go facing a lot of shots but he's stopping a lot of the good ones okay we have stats for we're proving the same point you agree with mice my stance but even though pox are going in on him he's doing what he's supposed to do in the fact that he's playing and he looks healthy and he's reliable but in the

is way more important and any specifics that that's not a mic you can like you can go ahead johnny healthy and he's reliable to me is way more important than any specific statistics. Go ahead Johnny, battle me on this. It feels like what you're saying might not be entirely wrong but the premise, one of the things is this is what stats don't matter. First of all you're quoting stats like you played five in a row. That feels like a stat to me. It is a stat. We call it durability on overdrive. Old school stats. And Jonas is acknowledging that you can find stats that would back up what you're saying

about making timely saves and whatever. Save, save percentage, when they're down by one or up by one, whatever it might be. I danger. I do think, oh yeah, all that stuff, all that stuff. They think there's no doubt that D-Track hasn't been as tight the last four weeks, right? It's his numbers have ballooned a little bit, but the fact that he's been healthy is important.

Now, is this the best he's played? Absolutely not. Like, it's not the best five games he's played. There's no way, but the fact that he's playing five in a row, when you factor that in to the equation and he's picking up wins and he's picking up wins, and he's gone through some adversity, and he's playing in front of a depleted lineup at times, that is a positive, and that is something that I think he had to... That is what you're talking about, Ace.

That's what I'm expressing here. He had to prove that he was willing and able to grind. Yes. And not just be a guy when everything's right, he's right, but occasionally when goalies play five games in a row, stuff starts to hurt. And you're banged around, and you're groin, or you're hip, or you're shoulder, or you're whatever. Your back's a little tight, but you've got to get in there

because they need you. And he hadn't shown that in his career. Not that he wasn't capable, but he hadn't shown it. And the fact that he has now, that's what you're talking about. Okay, that's a guy Barring some fairly serious situation we can count on and I think that's what you're looking for Hey, then that's what I love that you guys agree with you guys all don't get your hearts broken. That's all I know It's tedious man. Well, let me ask you this all of you. He's at 24 starts now

What do you want that total to be at the end of the year? At least 40. At least 40. Yeah, okay. Like how many do they have left, 34 games? I think he starts 20, so I would say 44. Yeah, 45. Yeah, 44, 45 starts.

I mean I think basically once the store is back, they're going to be almost even be almost even you know pretty much split down the middle provided everyone stays healthy, right? Mmm, the stores gets back just before four nations are just after They'll cut that down the middle and then they'll see it. But hey, I'll ask you this then you love Joseph Well, what stole our? undoubtedly Second or third best goalie in the league the first third of the season, right? Was great. I wanted him to write Right. Did I ever say the best you did did I you said he's out after the first night in Montreal I don't know for that. Okay, go ahead. So

If they come back, how do you factor that in is wall the number one? No matter what if Stoller starts playing and plays the same, like how do you factor that? Is it just good to have options? I think the options. I'm sure it's how they deal with this. Yeah, I still think it's up for grabs. I don't think you have to make a decision in January, early February.

You still have time to figure this out. I think ideally you get to a point where you trust one guy, or you believe that he is truly your number one and you have an answer on that. I would think they would lean towards Wall being that guy, but I don't know that definitively. And listen, Stolar is now has got to prove

that he can get back on the train, right? Like you suffer an injury and you're out for a long time. That's tough as a goaltender. Will he trust his knee? Will he trust that he gets back into form? Those are all things that we don't have answers to, but yeah, that's, you know, that's what I was saying about Wall is like, you can look at you can have a, you can have your

first shutout or your first back to back wins or whatever. And you can say, Oh, that's your welcome to the NHL moment. But I think this is actually him having a welcome to the NHL moment. Like no excuses. You got to play. No one else is coming in and he's shown up and played and battled every single day. But now you gotta keep doing it. Absolutely. That's like, that's hell. He doesn't deserve a parade because of it.

Right, you do it for a month. But it has to start at some point. For sure. And that's what I'm acknowledging here is, I guess that's my tongue in cheek point about the stats, is I'm not even looking at those, because I'm looking at a guy who's playing and he's battling and he's making big stops and they're winning games and they need them. And that's, you guys can speak to it in the room, man. and and he's battling and he's making big stops and they're winning games and they need them that's the you guys can speak to it in the room and if you get a goalie who's

unreliable it's be very unsettling right now well you just you get you get your hopes up in your like you're just wondering you're like oh god there's that guy again is he gonna play tonight is he not i'm sure there's been that situation last five or six years in that locker room with a bunch of different guys jack campbell freddie anderson it's like yep and joseph walsh of wall for sure and did what i got a game seven in the morning skate or in warm-up going to the ranks as by the way i'm not playing tonight

uh... on that yeah it's a shock to the system and at the top one very tough tough one everyone's like are you in or are you out it's a natural reaction to say that yeah are you in or are you out? It's a natural reaction to say that. Yeah. Are you in or are you out? And he's still got to prove that. He's still got to keep going. Damn right he does, man.

No question about that. But the good news is that he doesn't really have to prove, is he good? It's just, can he be good all the time? It's not so much, is he capable, it's now just, is he capable of doing it consistently? Yes. So at least that part has been answered if there had to be for Joseph Wallach But Johnny, you know what the playoffs are like You need your goalie in a hostile environment to go in and get outplayed and steal a game on the road

Like if you're gonna go on a run There's at least a couple instances where you need that situation Look at what Bobrowski did last year in the finals against Edmonton game one and game two He probably stole both those games that's the kind of stuff that's that that's way on a different level than you guys talking about a guy playing five games in a row in the regular season with the do yet the bars low man i get it to do i think i understand the bars

low but it's got to start somewhere and made maybe it is maybe maybe the light is gone on here for Joseph Wall, we'll see. Alright Johnny, good stuff, lots of excitement, lot of fire, I love it, always good. Good stuff. We'll do it again later in the week. There's Mike Johnson joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline, count on Maple Toyota for the right winter tire package for your Toyota. Trade in your old tires, buy a new set and get $40 back, visit mapletoyota.com.