OverDrive - Johnson on McKenna's ideal position, Barkov's injury affect and Hellebuyck's future in Winnipeg

Episode Date: October 2, 2026

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the Maple Leafs' start to the season, Gavin McKenna's placement in the lineup, Easton Cowan gaining a promotion, Auston Matthews' production, Aleksander Barkov's injury playing a role, Connor Hellebuyck's future with the Jets, Dylan Larkin's ovation in Detroit and more.

All right, here's Mike Johnson, our TOSN Hockey Analyst, joining us on the Maple Tudor Hotline. Ever around a coach where you knew if you lost that night, he was getting fired? I think we had for about a couple weeks in Tampa with Steve Luzick. We were not doing well. And so it all comes to a head hazy. We're in Chicago.

We play on like a 5 o'clock afternoon game, and then we have like two days off in Chicago. So we all go well. We lost again. and we're down to our division of Rushtown where it's like 2.30 at the morning. There's about eight of us in some bar. And all of a sudden we hear like rap, rap, rap, on the

window outside the bar and it's Ludsey. And he's like this. You know, giving this one to the guys, like, oh man, this is no good. 7 a.m. the next morning, the hotel phone rings. Get up. Meeting at 7.30 in the whatever ballroom. We're like, oh, man, we're going to get

killed here. We're going to get laid into. They fired Lundy. It was the opposite to O's. Like, they did fire him, and we were like, oh, we got off Scott Free. No, it wasn't a big deal for being out so late. Oh, that's the worst, man, because that's his town, too. Lutzy was a Blackhawk, right? Like, he played in Chicago ever, too. What was he doing out at 2.30, though?

That's what I'd be asking. Like, what do you, don't you point back and say, what do you do it? Yeah, look at his first players. Yeah, I guess so. Maybe. I guess so. Maybe. Maybe there's a lot of us at the team, so he couldn't bench all of us.

Yeah. Well, that's true. I was in, we were in Hartford. I got called up, and I was with St. Louis, and Mike Keenan was our coach. And we had an eight-minute pre-game skate. And then he stopped, and he started yelling. Him and Brett Hall had a full-on screaming argument against each other. And then we lost that night, and then next morning in St. Louis, they fired Mike and brought in Joel Quinville.

He was there. But it was, like, awkward. Like, Holly was like, you're a loser. And he's like, you're a loser. loser like it was just unbelievable the two of them going and i'm just sitting there going what is going on here like what kind of circus but it's like rogers and mccarthy last night oh my god that was i love when mccarthy said what an a hole like just what in a hole yeah that was awesome i mean that's what you get though like rogers brett hall there's certain guys that are like i don't care

who the coaches clearly you're going to hear a piece of my mind yeah it's coming like that was Mike though, right? It was. It was miced up because he's waiting for McCarthy to get the play call and he's losing it on the guy though. Like losing it on the coach. That's where like one, you laugh at guys when they cover their mouth when they talk as though like, you know, it's top secret

stuff. But in moments like this, like that's why you cover your mouth because everyone's going to read your lips what you're saying about the guy and it's not a good look. Yeah. So some guys that just do not care. They're going to say whatever they want And it's interesting dynamic, especially when they're good players. You're like, okay, here we go. Power struggle, which one backs down?

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, Johnny, we're two games into the Leaf campaign, and we got Ottawa tomorrow night. We're trying to get a read on Ottawa because I think the Leafs will be ready to play. They've knocked some rust off. They're at home. It's a Saturday night. Always a kind of special vibe down there.

But Ottawa hasn't played yet, and they're going to step on the ice for the first time in eight years, I believe it is without Brady Kuchuk. What do you expect from the senators tomorrow night? Well, I talk about bad schedule. Like the last time of the season that you want an extra four days off to start the year is brutal. Give me those four days off in March and in February when I need them. But beyond that, I think they'll be fine. Like, I think on some level, and it's not meant to be a shot at Brady.

Like, it will be a galvanizing motivator to not have Brady could chuck around. everyone who's left there will be feeling we want to show that we can do it, that we're good without him, we want to show why he maybe should have wanted to stay more than he wanted to leave, and we're pretty good without him. And I think that should be a common theme that will run through that team for quite a while here to start the year.

I did read that Sanderson was back on the ice as well, which is significant because they had the end been on the ice in a little while, Zub was back on the ice, he won't be playing. But they had some bodies come back on the ice because they were down some people. and we know when Travis Green, who's a very good coach, has them playing well. They are stingy. They might be look a little different with the puck, but they're stingy without it, and they've given the Leaf's trouble.

Like Shane Pinto plays Austin Matthews really hard. That's a type, like you have a physical, strong, fast matchup guy for Austin. So I would expect them, even though they're rusty and they haven't played a game yet. They've basically had a second training camp. They've had six days, which is more practice than you get in training camp to try to get things organized for tomorrow night. I would expect them be organized in a tough opponent. Johnny, we just had Chica on at 430,

and do you think it's easier for him being a brand new GM and basically fresh eyes on everybody, as opposed to a GM that's been here for some time, with all the new bodies, and he'd just be paying attention to the new transactions. Instead, he's fresh on the scene, and everyone's new to him, like John Tavares is new in Austin Matthews, just like Marchenko and the guys that he brought in?

I think what it gives him, oh, is a clean slate for everyone. He's not really, I mean, I guess he's tied to Marchenko, because he brought him in and some of the changes he made, but he just sort of doesn't have any past, no history, no biases, no extra ties. Everyone sort of gets evaluated with a clean slate, which I think might be easier, even though it's a lot. Like there's a lot of information you're trying to digest, try to get to learn and know people, trying to get to learn and know the way they play. We know that he loves to dig in the numbers, so he's not just sort of watching and saying, hmm, it feels like this guy plays.

He probably watches. Then he dissects numbers for eight hours about what actually happens to see if his eye test matches the number test. So I would say it's easier because you can, you know, you're starting fresh. You're starting for scratch, which probably makes it the first evaluation a bit simpler for everybody. How much does resume factor into eye test scratch or slash numbers? Because apparently the nerds are going off on the scoring chances forward against for the Tavares line. Second line, yeah. Okay, the second line.

Thank you for confirming that. Like if it was somebody that just got called up and they had bad numbers, they're gassed from the line with the reputation of John Tavares. Is somebody turning the other way saying there's nothing to see here, don't look over there, or how does that factor in? I think the resume buys you time, a longer time frame to ride out a bad stretch of numbers because you have history to show what you usually can do. And if what you're doing is different and you have eight years, 10 years, 12 years of information

saying that you're usually different than this, then you won't panic on two games and overreact. if you have no history, if these are the first two games you've ever been playing, then that's all they know of you. Then you don't get three weeks a month to try to sort it out because they don't have any information proving otherwise. So I think that absolutely resume comes into play, as it should. I mean, if a proven player, Jeff O'Neill goes six games without scoring a goal, you're not going to sit him down. You know that he's going to score goals.

But if a guy steps out of the minor's never played before and he's supposed to be a goal scoring, and goes eight games without a chance, he doesn't get as much, as long a leash as Jeff O'Neill does, because of what you've done in the past. So just following that up, Johnny, O talked about the second line and the numbers not being that glowing. What do you see out of Gavin McKenna? And, you know, we had a really good debate about it yesterday

because he's 18 years old. Shouldn't he be leaning on a 36-year-old and a 30-year-old in Tavaris and Nylander? But he's part of that line. And, you know, longer leash, do you switch things up? Do you pull a few shifts from him? Like, what do you make of that? Because it seems like the top line is going right now and the line underneath it with Cowan on it,

but that second line is struggling. Yeah, for sure, I know Gavin McKenna's special, but he's playing with two really good players. And he should be the third option when he started looking at who needs to make sure that that line is good on the ice. Thank you. He's got to be part of it, but he can't be the first reason. If he's the first reason you look to, then William Nealander's having a real tough time, and you should really shine the spotlight to him.

And then Savara's, you know, at his age, maybe we should not be surprised a little bit that the five-on-five play driving is not what it once was because it wasn't great at times last year. But this is where our noodle thing becomes tricky. Like, how do you balance? You have a couple extra bodies. Cowan can certainly move up and play a bigger role. Maybe Nick Paul could maybe move up play a bigger role. but do you take something that's working and break it up early on to help something that might not be? I think as long as you're getting decent results, you let them ride it out and hope that they get a little bit better.

And for Gavin, you know, I think it's the same as always. It's going to be the story for him all the time, noodles. When he has the puck and he's skating forward with it above the blue, like out of his own end, he's in a comfort spot. He's going to make good plays, they're making good decisions. It's not going to be perfect, but he's going to make things happen. If he doesn't have the puck or he's doing it in his own end, it's less comfortable for him. And so what your whole plan would be is to try to get him in the spots where he's going to be able to show his best stuff and not in the spots where he won't be quite as comfortable.

And that's on him, that's on the coach, that's on his linemates, that's on everybody. And I think we've seen that with the puck, offensively, very good, defensively without it, not as strong. And that's not surprising to anybody. Yeah, and I'm glad you've mentioned that because I said the same thing. today. There's this sense of like, oh, the line's not going, so let's talk about McKenna. He's playing with Neelander and Tavarro. So if that line sinks, talk to them. Like, they should be taking pride in the fact that they've got them on their line. And we're going to drag you home here.

Like, we're going to take you under our wing. And that's the way I'm sure Hiller's looking at it too. Like, you got a problem. Go to Tavaris and Neelander and say, you guys got to be better. You have to be more responsible. But I also think with Neelander, you know, The last couple of years or last year, we've been talking about Matthews without Marner, tomorrow's at times without Marner.

Willie and Marner didn't play, really at all together. He has not had a winger like this that he's ever played with that I can recall, that has the ability on a two-on-one to say, actually, it's coming back to you, so be ready. Like, I think you've got to give them some time here, and I think it could be very beneficial to Neelander in particular. Like, if he can start getting a read on where McKenna's going and how he's seeing the game and think of the game, he's going to get some freebies. Like he's going to get some easy tap-in goals.

He's just got to kind of calibrate to it, so to speak, because he's not used to. He doesn't generally play. I don't think he's ever played with a guy that has that level of skill and talent and ability like McKenna does. Yeah, and Willie's a smart player, a very smart offensive player. He will figure the stuff out his. But what will be interesting to me is that when I watch them play in the office zone,

to Mara's kneelander, whoever. The line's primary objective in the offensive zone, and you watch tomorrow's all the time, is like, get the puck, battle hard for it, where's Willie, give it to him, and they just get out of the way. And then Willie starts to create the time and space, and he's wheeling

around, he's stick handling and cutting back and everything else, and then guys go to the front of the net and whatever. Now, you have Willie who wants the puck and space to go, and McKenna, who wants to hang on the edges and say, give me the puck, the puck, of space over here and they haven't had sort of that cohesiveness of how to get it and how to

find space with it because usually it's just really do it on your own and McKenna wants to participate in that as well and it just hasn't quite clicked but yes both are way too good and way too smart to not have it work out offensively now will it be great defensively that's a different question probably not so sure will ever be great defensively but it might not have to be and they're not counting on it being that's why they have third fourth lines and Austin Matthews but it should certainly be good offensively once they get some chemistry, get some continuity, and get playing with each other a bit more. You just said the word Austin Matthews, or the words Austin Matthews,

like, if you were to watch a game in one of the first five they played two, like what would you need to see to say that guy's going to be like the old Austin Matthews? And I don't even know what version that would be, Johnny. Is it more realistic to think he would be the 40 goals? Austin Matthews, the 50 goal. There's a bunch of different options because he scored so many. But what would you need to see for that to happen? Is it simply goals or completely dominating a game?

Like, what would you be looking for? So the obvious answer would be goals, right? Like, he's getting some shots, but having those shots that seem to find the back of the net, find the back of the net. Like, don't miss the net, don't be blocked, whatever. That would be one option, and it would make sense. the other one to me is

when he still is very strong on the puck, right? Like he can grab it, he can knock it off you, but what I would like to see this maybe suggesting my back is if he can consistently do that and then beat that guy he took it from somewhere, not just protect it for possession, but then beat him with a sick handle, a hard step, a body position, whatever it might be,

and beat him towards the net to create something else. I think that's what we haven't seen as much of, we see him get the puck. He's still very good at battling and lifting the sticks and everything else. But then he doesn't, he hasn't turned the corner and beat that guy to create something with it. And I'd like to see that. And once you start seeing that consistently, you know, the point totals and the goals will probably follow. So we don't have a full explanation on what's up with Sasha Varkov after he left the game last night.

But without him, you know, last year, obviously he didn't play. but Kachuk barely played, a bunch of other injuries took place. They were out of gas. If you take Barkov off that team, how good do you think Florida still is? I think they're a playoff team, obviously, but they're not a cup winner without him. He's that good. He's the best two-way forward in the league. And what troubles me, I don't know if noodles or even you, A, has had any of this happen ever,

but, like, you know when you get hurt, and you're like, I'm either hurt, which is, that's annoying and it's painful, or I'm injured. I'm out. The reaction to this, the fact that he stood up and slammed the glove, walking right off, that tells me he thought he was injured.

Like he thought, I just did something that is not going to feel better tomorrow. And that's what's worrisome, whether it's an MCL or a groin or a hip or an ankle. I have no idea, and I hope it's not the case. But that's troubling to see. But, you know, Sam Bennett's a good player.

He's a great number two. Anton Lundell is a good player He's a brilliant number three Neither one are true number one Centerman. Bark off that for that team. That's how they all get slotted properly. That's why Ryan Hart's really good. That's why they work together based on the top

down. And if he's gone long term, they're just not nearly as good. They're still good. I still think they make the playoffs. Even if he missed the whole year, which I don't think he will. But if it did, but I would not have them as a cup favorite, which I do if he's healthy, if he wasn't. Yeah.

Johnny, how long do you think Connor Hallibuck is going to want to blow 39 grand a day or whatever it is? I know you would like to do that. Is that what it is? I think it might be 39 grand a day or something like that. I might show up and just have a bag growing

until I get traded. Dylan Largian. Yeah, like here I am. Yeah. Oh, bad. Well, Brian, I did hear you this. I did hear this yesterday, Brian. Like, are they going to wheel out that Dylan

Larkin and one of his home? Like, because of the guys that, no, I know. Are they going to point to the bench and say, Dylan Larkin, and he's going to go like, like, 71. I can't wait. Johnny, okay, what's the juries? Like, we're Walt going to tune in, but what is the juries that they roll him out? And he's in a suit and he comes on the bench and waves.

I think both parties have to do everything possible for him not to be on that bench. Like, I think it's a bigger store if they don't. put him there. I think it becomes more of a distraction. If they don't, you got, listen, I, here's my mini jerry's. 98% he's on the bench. No way. 95% of the fans boo him.

Yep. And like, and this is your lot. You made the call and you got to take it. Well, Brian last week said, you're from there. Brian last week said it was smart not putting Vladdy out there just to kind of have good mojo and you don't want to wheel Vladdy out there.

And now he says wheel larkin out there. to just have everyone boo his ass. Totally different context. Vladdy was still around the team, and it was game 162. It was Scherzer's goodbye, Springer's goodbye. Vladdy had already had the built-in excuse. It's the Detroit Red Wings home opener, home opener for this guy, and you want to just have a guy on the bench to be like,

70s. Dillon Larkin. What are you going to pretend he's not on the team? Like if he's going to play in three games, he's got to be there tonight. But do you think he's going to play in three games? No, I'm not convinced he will. But then pull a hellabuck and turn. don't show up. You can't claim

you're part of the team. But if he doesn't show tonight, Hazy, what is the next four days of conversation like for everyone in the locker room? Where was Dylan? Why wasn't he out there? Whose call was that? How does it make that? Like, just, he's got to take it. And it stinks. And like, even as a teammate, you

will feel for him personally because he's your friend. Yeah. But you won't be bothered by. You're like, listen, the guy made a call for whatever reason, and he's entitled to make that call, but you have to deal with the consequences. And one of the consequences then for 30 seconds, it might be

uncomfortable while people who used to love you, now boo you. That's okay. That's what you've chosen and that's the path you've got to go down. I want to hear the voice guy like how quickly he flies through. He turns to the next guy. Yes. Number 70, Mike Johnson,

number 71, Dylan Larkin, number 72. He's an auctioneer. He's an auctioneer. Exactly. And the camera just goes like so quick right through. The fastest pan ever. It would be so great. It would be so great. 701, 72, 70s, like just the right through.

His rifles through. So go ahead on Hallibuck, though. What is your read on Hallibuck and his standoff here with Winnipeg? He seems pretty dug in, right? Like, he seems like he's not going anywhere, oh. Like, I don't think 40 grand a day, $250 a week, whatever it is, 500, 2 weeks, a mill for a month. I think he's willing to take it. Now, you can say he's got lots of money,

so it doesn't hurt quite as much, but it's still a boat load of money. I don't even know what the Jets want, though. You guys help me with this. Would the Jets want him to come back to the team sort of half invested in quasi-play?

I would say no. Or would they just prefer out there. The pressure that he'll feel and the money they don't have to pay him. Like, if we're going to trade you anyways and you're not going to be fully invested here, we'd rather not pay you and not have you around because it becomes a bigger destruction if you are. I don't know.

I think they probably prefer him to stay away at this point. I don't think he needs to do anything. He just needs to sit and wait because if Buffalo has three or four more games where their goal tending is in question, that's where the pressure point will change. And they're like, pick up the horn and get them. Well, I watched that Buffalo game last night. That Columbus team was flying. They look pretty good.

They look pretty good. Very nice. Very nice. It looks very good. I think Buffalo is a good landing site for Hallibuck. But ultimately, again, what is the – like, I watch the – I don't know if you watch the interview between Dregs and Shevoldeoff. Shevys playing his carts close to the best. He's like, listen, we've got to do what we can.

But he's not making a trade-o just for the sake of making it. Yeah, he's sticking to that principle. If Buffalo was interested in Connor Hallibuck, which with all the rumors, they've got to be somewhat interested, what kind of package would they put together? Peca Lukanin would be one. What's that? Jack Quinn? Well, the guy that Winnipeg would want would be that Benson kid.

They would want him included somehow. Or Don't or something. So here's their package, okay? UPL the goalie. Josh Norris or Jack Quinn up front, depending on which one they want. And then some combination of Noel O'Slin who just signed that big contract,

Uri Kulik, two young guys who've played in the NHL for a long time. There's your three or four pieces. And they're all good NHLers, and the young guys could be really good, solid second line guys, and you get a gold tender, and you get a proven NHLR and Norris or Quinn. What if they said, Pekeleukin, and what if Buffalo said, Owen Power, Peckalookan, and a first round pick? I don't think they can trade over power.

Not after they gave up Bowling Byron. Like, I don't think, like, they need defensemen there. Like, they need puck movers. And they have a, oh, their surplus, it feels like, is in prospects and lots of talent up front. I'm sure Winnipeg would probably ask that cost to Hellenius

but like there's enough pieces there if you're looking for three or four pieces and Buffalo might have five or six that they could kind of part with feels like if you wanted to you could make that deal happen you just mentioned that

Bowen Byrom and sure him and his partner might be minus 700 a tough start tough start oh my goodness Chicago stinks again unfortunately they might make our list Johnny next Friday

maybe we'll do it with you. We're going to do a list, three or four items each. It could be NFL, NHL. It's going to be called, it's early, but I think this stinks. Could be a player, could be a team. We're doing it next Friday. We're doing it. Very positive. Edmonton gold sending.

Yes. It goes without saying. It's fairly, but this is tough. Like hell of them, dude. That's what they mean. But I was saying, Brian, they don't have the currency. They just don't. They don't have the currency. I agree with you noodles.

You guys think Halibuck would pick up and go to Evanton? I don't think so. Maybe we wouldn't either. That would be a kick in the teeth to Winnipeg if they did. That would be a kick in the teeth. Because Winnipeg is like, you know, viral market move kind of. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

All right, Johnny, have a great weekend. We'll do it next week. All right, fellas, have a good weekend. Mike Johnson, joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. It's time to Toyota. Check out the Toyota Tacoma and Toyota Tundra pickup trucks, both available as hybrids. Maple Toyota near Canada's Wonderland

and the Maple Auto Mall. Unmistakably Canadian. It's the music that raised you. The artists raising the bar. Hi, this is Brian Adams. Hey, my name's Brett Emmons. I'm from the glorious sons. Hi, I'm Nellie Fittata.

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