OverDrive - Johnson on Miller's next steps in Vancouver, McMann's elevated role and the Maple Leafs' center options

Episode Date: January 24, 2025

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the NHL, the Rangers and Canucks' playoff opportunity, J.T. Miller's stance in Vancouver, Bobby McMann's role on the Maple Leafs and playing with Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner and more.

Stock market returns can vary dramatically from year to year, but when analyzed over time, a clearer trend emerges. How are your stocks performing? What does the average return look like? Maybe you're not into stocks yet. You need a money guy. Kelvin the Money Guy can tell you which stocks performed best over the last 10 years, his predictions for 2025, and why the market always performs best during the first year of a presidential election. Call 416-457-PLAN or visit askkelvin.ca. Here's Mike Johnson joining us here on the Maple Tide hotline. Did you ever have the urge to take your glove off and choke anybody while you're playing? I mean, I might've thought about wanting to smack someone or choke someone, but didn't quite pull it off. Two thoughts. One, chasers paws are so big, I'm surprised they can about wanting to smack someone or choke around your neck to choke you. But what I thought is that what that gives cousins in that case or anyone, you have absolutely free reign to do anything you want to Brad Marshand's hand.

Anything, you could cut it in half. You could break it, you could slash it, you could chop it, and with impunity, you would never get in trouble. Woody, you gotta go to someone this way, he was choking me, so I slashed his hands. I'm sorry he broke four fingers. Tell him not to choke me without a glove like he's gonna chop that his hand So hard like so hard with whatever you wanted because you could do it ever because you've done nothing wrong

You're just literally protecting yourself from a guy choking you That was weird and given that it's been Marchand and the stuff he's done before the lick and everything else I'm surprised he even bothered to do that, but that was weird again that it's been march and the stuff you've done before the liquor they are providing even bothered to do that but that was like the other reaction i watch it i was doing the game in the studio last night noodles calling it i'm like how did like shop his handoff break it they got high-riding a fine should be a fine for that or something johnny it's stupid

for the student you know well they've got to be the fines twenty. Maximum allowable for being dumb. That would be the explanation of the video. Yeah, I don't know, I guess to be on sports and like conduct, I don't know what the actual rule would be violating, but yeah, you have every right to do whatever you want to make them stop doing that because that is not allowed. Yeah, that was wild, man. Johnny, I was, I mean, you mentioned it, you were in studio,

I was calling the game, I don't even know, I can't remember, I'd have to go back on the broadcast, how I reacted because I, I was kind of paralyzed, you're watching it going, did that did I just see what I just thought I saw? Like, see choking him? Like, and it's a concentrated effort, it goes back to the replay, you see him, take his glove off but it doesn't exist in his armpit and then reach out with the the the undertaker like it was just a weird transaction and i don't know i mean i don't think they got penalties today i i don't know if there was offsetting the household

i'm one like do we just see that because you're right about you in the scrum work love it come off and he reached for me and just sort of instinctively grabbed at him. He's like, no, no, I'm going to take my glove off. We're going to tuck it away so it doesn't get to the ice. I'm very going to calmly reach out and he choked, put my hands around his throat. It was just so bizarre. So, oh, yeah, like you want to find him.

I think even he was like, yeah, I thought I deserved that one. That was you probably can't defend him because I guess he'd say he didn't really mean it for a part of their new entwining damage but yeah he gets by the guy for just being and that being done with well that's it i mean i a gino rada pointed out like they suspended us for doing the throat slashing thing

so yeah you can do that ish which doesn't touch anyone doesn't hurt anyone anyone, you're suspended, but you actually grab the guy and it's swept under the rug, especially considering the guy we're talking about. He's licked multiple players in his career, which is a wild thing to say. He's done this, what, eight times? He's done this so many times. And the throat slash one, I get why you don't want to do it, it's a bad look, but no one, I've been told somebody's gonna kill me

hundreds of times on the ice. You don't ever feel like someone's actually gonna kill you. So there's no real threat there, it's just for the visual. The same visual of putting your hands on a person's throat, a bare hand on somebody's throat. That was great. You would have to think after the last licking incident, somebody got in his ear and said,

any other thing, goofy or against the grain were really gonna hammer you any going ahead and did it it's just it's stupid stuff and i don't think they're gonna hammer them but anyway in the end i guess you know boston they're victorious they win they're at home against colorado tomorrow ottawa's at home against the Leafs tomorrow and we're discussing the rangers who won again last night there's seven 7-0 and 3 and now like they're winning, they're winning big now, right?

Like it's kind of, it's not like Shusterkin's making 50 saves and he's battled them back into the race. They look kind of like what you expected them to look like all year and we figured we'd throw another mini Jerry at you because we know you love that. What's your Jerry's percentage? Mini Jerry. Mini Jerry. Mini Jerry. On the Rangers making the playoffs. Oh. at you because we know you love that. What's your Jerry's percentage, mini Jerry, mini Jerry on the Rangers making the playoffs? I'm going to say 67%.

Wow. Because, you know, I think they are so much better than they were playing when they were struggling. I think they have one of the best goalies in the world. Now back on his game, he had a little reset, little injury and he's playing really well. And the teams that are around them are good, but I think that's why it's 67% because there's just so many teams, so many things could happen that will make it maybe a little bit tougher. But they're the best team of the bunch down there and they're probably going to add more players. Maybe even JT Miller They just cried on a weekend. So they're probably gonna get

Continue to get talent on their roster Yeah, I think it's more likely than not The biggest challenge for them is that they're battling for so many teams for what two or their three spots now Like are we okay with where we at with Tampa? What to or their three spots now? Like are we okay with where we at with Tampa? This Tampa Coleman clear if they played so many fewer games or are they now part of the bunch? Because in the standings they're they're part of the bunch, but they've got three or four games at hand a lot of guys Yeah, I think you yeah, I think they're in the bunch personally I would give them the benefit of the doubt like I would say there's a

67% chance that they'll finish with that third seed in the Atlantic. Boston's clearly not out of it. Like they've played more games than anybody. Boston's in the bunch with Columbus and New York. They're in the bunch. They're right in the thick of it. They're right in the middle of it. Tampa's always been a bit separate of it, but like you said, Johnny, sure they've played fewer games, but not 10 fewer games. They've played a few games less than everyone else and they got 53 points so They're they're kind of in the bunch until they prove otherwise or they they win those games that they have in hand because there's no Guarantee, they're gonna do that

Yeah, I go back and forth like I kind of had it at 16 sort of spoken for knees but now I'm sort of waffling as well like maybe it's really just five and maybe it's just Florida and Toronto in the Atlantic. And that's all that can really say, yeah, they're going to make it. The other ones are likely to. Tampa's very likely to make it with their track record, with the standings, with the points percentage, all that stuff. But once you get in that group, that group's messy and it's like quick sandish. Like once you're in that group, it's hard to pull yourself out of it because everyone's picking up points and everyone's shuffling and jockeying and

three point games and it's just it's hard to get separation. And we're coming up on 50 games played guys. It's a 30 games left. Like it is we're coming down the home stretch here pretty soon. Once we get to four nations, post four nations, there's going to be what? 24 games left. That is a sprint time. And to think that you're going to be what 24 games left that is a sprint time and to think that you're going to go one way or the other plus or minus six or eight points it's

probably not going to happen you'd have to go super hot you'd have to go like you know 18 and six which is unlikely to happen for any of these teams so yeah like one you template sort of unfortunately drifted for them drift drifted towards the pack. So Johnny, do you, you mentioned the Rangers adding like, could you see JT Miller? Like I don't, I still don't understand this JT Miller and it'll obviously transition in Vancouver. We were going to get there eventually, but you know, what do you make? This is the one thing I wanted to bring up and actually wanted everybody to weigh in on it too. Now, because things are public, like we forgot JT Miller took a leave of absence for a month. If you're trading for a player, you better find out what that was. And if that is a reoccurring situation, whether it's you know, injury, mental health,

all of that type of stuff. With this particular player you're trading for, that will call it quote unquote baggage comes with you. So if you're the team that's trying to acquire him, you need to do a deep dive on everything that comes with that player. So I could see why this process might have been held up on a lot of different fronts because if you're adding somebody that potentially could struggle in the future on a lot of off-white stuff, on-ice stuff, you mentioned it, it's a big gamble to add a player of that caliber because he's a fantastic player. Yeah, the easy part of that question for him is,

oh, is he a good player? That's the easy part. Do you want him on your team when he's playing well and he's right? Of course, every single team wants them on his team. But what makes it even trickier, Doodle, is of course, you need to understand what the nature is of the issue in Vancouver. Whatever is going on between Pedersen and him,

if anything, whatever it is, you sort of need to understand where that's coming from and would that be an issue in your locker room? Will that be a problem with one of your guys? How does that play out? You need to understand the leave of absence stuff and we hope that he's healthy and we all respect anyone's journey through mental health, but those are sort of

sensitive things to get hold of though. Like you can't just call it and be like, hey, how's your knee? It's a different kind of conversation than that. So even if you're the ranger, and JT Miller has to wave to go to your team. So you put all these different elements together and try to make that deal work and be comfortable with it,

especially when Vancouver is gonna be wanting to trade JT Miller as though he's a 100 point guy who's a total alpha dog, guy you want in the playoffs and There's no other sort of question marks about him But that's not the reality for the other teams acquiring them even though that's how Vancouver will be perceiving him in value That's a hard trade to make and I don't even know Noodles, maybe you would know you know if you're in management if you're coaching staff Are you allowed to ask a player about that? Do they have to

tell you what they went on their leave? Probably not. So you I don't know how you answer those questions, but you'd have to have them answered before you pull a trigger and send neither and he'd all over in a first round pick or whatever it might end up being. Johnny, it wouldn't be hard to back channel that information. You think so? If you really wanted to. See, I don't know. A guy takes a leave, you don't really have to tell anyone.

No, I know, but I'm sure there's guys that are close to the situation on the team that would... There's ways of finding out. If one of us really wanted to find out, I'm sure we could find out what the hell, what that was all about. But they kept pretty quiet, like the nature of the Pedersen Miller thing, that that hasn't sort of, like, they don't like each other. That's pretty opaque. Like, it's not really clear why they don't like each other. And Vancouver's a passionate market, and that

hasn't sort of come out yet. And maybe you're right, oh, maybe you could find it out, but it feels like it's not quite as easy as other kinds of questions you might have about players when you want to make a trade. But this is a, and this is, I don't know the answer to this. If it's a mental health thing, then you're right, the nature of it, but it is on your file because you've had to go through the process. If you're trading for somebody who's had shoulder surgery, you're going to look at the doctor's file.

You're going to see what the nature of the problem is. But it doesn't say noodles, mental health break because of substance abuse. Noodles, mental health break because of gambling. It doesn't say that on there. It's just a mental health break. And that's confidential between him and his doctors, as it should be. So I don't know how you get that. I don't know.

Yeah. No, it's just the type of research that maybe makes this a little bit more complex based on looking forward and having that player in your dress room in your organization and for the future he's got term on his deal with the other that's it so john you know you're going let's apply the many jerry to the vancouver canucks qualifying the playoffs okay i'm going to say

watch yourself now but the the the uh... i'm gonna say 42% and that is based on, I think in the West, we talked about the East maybe five or six teams spoken for, I think the West seven teams are spoken for. I really do. I think the Pacific, those four guys, it's gonna be three of those four, and then the Central with Winnipeg and Dallas and Colorado and Minnesota, right? You got LA, Vegas, Edmonton.

I don't think those guys, Calgary or Vancouver, are catching any of those teams. So there's one team up for grabs. Calgary's got the inside track. Somehow, maybe because of overall talent, maybe because of last year, maybe because of the expectations of Calgary this year, it doesn't feel like a guarantee that Calgary is gonna get to 96 points do they have do they have a blip in their game who knows so they're

out of playoffs now so it's less than 50-50 but if they clear up JT Miller do they get some players back that will help them from another team and then do they go get Elias Pedersen back like that's the guy they need back when they make a trade there I'm Queen Hughes is having a Norris caliber season the goal-turning is fine with lank and although Demko has not been very good but peterson's playing at what you guys I don't have in front of me he's playing at like a 50 point pace that you need to be a hundred point pace with that guy but maybe when all this finally plays itself out you get something like him back, if you do, plus reinforcements, then

I think they can go catch Calgary, 42%. All right, Johnny, what's your mini Jerry on Bobby McMahon sticking on the top line with Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner well beyond the return of Matthew Nyes. Whoa. Whoa. Oh, um, 8%. That, whoa.

Uh-oh. Okay. I think, like, once when Matthew Nyes is healthy and everyone's back. Yeah. Yeah, no, I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean, two, three,

I have two different reasons. One, they're going to get another forward, right? If that forward's a center man, okay, if it's a winger, he's gonna bump McMahon out of the top six, right? If that guy's a center man, he's gonna bump Domi out of that spot, and I think Max Domi has a better chance of going long term up there, like he did last year, and then you can play Knives with Nylander and Tavares

if you want. He's gotta play a lot better for that though I mean max should not be different and I know you're not suggesting that but if I like I want to do a game tonight who do I think is gonna have a more impact on the game it's Bobby McMahon over Max Domi all know the way they're playing right now no doubt but I think McMahon is a good player at what he does well. He's a very fast skater, he's a good shooter, strong guy, he can finish chances because he's got a nice shot, nice release. He's not a sort of yet gifted player at reading the offensive play.

He doesn't facilitate very much. He's a finisher, he's a straight line guy. He's like, he'll create for himself. He doesn't create too much for others. And I think if you're going to play with Matthews and Marner, that part of your game, even if it's not your bread and butter, has probably got a little bit, got to be a little bit better than he is right now. So I would say it's not a great chance. And if it is a great, if he sticks long term, then I don't think the Leafs will have done what they anticipated doing by the trade deadline Okay. Yeah, that's reasonable. I mean, yeah, listen, I think he's played really well. I think his stories are really really positive I'm not trying to downplay a

Valuable player of their team like you can plug a third line guy or a let's put home a middle six winger now He's going above that but some of the middle six w. Who's no frills doesn't make a lot of money Doesn't kill you defensively will score 20 ish goals. You'd be only gets ten assists or 12 assists Doesn't kill you like that's that's an important player But he kind of found that you didn't have to draft and develop from the title 18 He's been absolutely a gold line for them. I just think Marner and Matthews, and also maybe not as much anymore, but I do know that Austin Matthews has had opinions about who he likes to play with before in his time with

Toronto. And it doesn't seem like it's working. He kind of can express that at times. And so if it's not working, Mitch Mitch martin is not going away would be in the winger as well but i think that the record man i just don't know about the perfect fit yeah and listen eyes is done enough to deserve that spot

you know when you return so i i don't know how long is going to be out for what he's played very well bobby mcmahon has to represent and likely the plan is for him to represent that secondary scoring that they've lacked in the playoffs. He was hurt last year against Boston and that was a significant loss. If he's on that third line or fourth line if they're lucky, I doubt it, but if they have so much depth where they push him down, that's a guy that I think can chip in a goal or two in a series playing 10, 12 minutes a night.

And they've been lacking that for a long time. He has the ability. Yeah. Like we don't need to count on him and you might only be one time. And then stole off in for the least of their playoff run. They've been looking like, yes, we look to the big guys. Where's their signature game. Go get a hat trick, but also all those tight games, just one random hero.

One, you know, match stage and jump up, one Alan McCauley have a run. And Bobby McMahon could be one of those guys that's maybe not a huge scorer in the regular season, but could he get three goals in seven games, including a game winner? He for sure could because of the way that he plays. And the way that he plays Hayes, to kind of flesh this out, he doesn't need to play with great players because he's kind of an individual guy. Like you know, his speed, his shot creates a lot so that he can play for the devil lineup, preferred matchups, and he'll still get his looks

because he is so fast. Right, yeah he can move man. You know, like you look at the goal he scored the other night, he gets that shot off. Yeah. And he's become an everyday guy. And that's credit to him. He wasn't a kid when he showed up. Came out of nowhere.

Well, if you were to rank, where would he be an elite forward when you rank him? Important, whatever you want to call it. Where would he be for you? If everyone's healthy. Yeah. I mean, let's say the core four is out of the way. Knives is out of the way knives out of the way. Yeah Would he be

Seven yeah, six or seven right? Yeah, that's a that's really important now You'd love to make some acquisitions or have some growth from Dolby or Robertson to knock them to eight or nine Because your teams away if he's number nine on your team You got a group of boards you got a good group of Fords. You got a good group of Fords that are all being relatively productive. Right, and I mean, Max has the ability to do that, and I think Domi, the hope will be that that's what

Domi can and will do, and then maybe they acquire somebody that does push them down. But that's exactly it, like that's the sign, because there's gonna be injuries, and you need guys to plug in, and that's exactly it like that's the sign because there's gonna be injuries and you need guys to plug in and that's Usually the teams the last team standings the one that has has a guy on the third line that would be on the second line on the other team that's right Johnny said they'd be going to look because You know from one to six you're pretty comfortable from six to twelve

That's where there's some coin flip stuff going on there, right? Yeah, for sure. A lot of teams, not just the Leafs. I'm just saying, but that's, you know, when we're talking specifically about the Leafs, that's where Johnny's saying if you go and add somebody in, we'll call it the seven hole, now all of a sudden you've got some good players fighting for the eight, you know, if that makes sense. Big time. And that's where your depth comes in because right now it's whatever 7 to 12 Johnny

Would you say a lot of them are plug-and-play interchangeable? Yeah, they're all but they're all kind of different too, right? But yeah, they just haven't meshed to make them Remember how good Toronto looked for was it four games when McMahon and Robertson and Domi got hot And you're like, oh my like this is this is outrageous. Now they could never play at that level, but those seven and 12 guys haven't chipped in offensively with great consistency. Now, McMahon is on pace for 20 something goals. Nick Robertson's almost on pace for 20 something goals

when it's all said and done. Max has been a real, has been a real sore point in the production of their third line. Now I know he's probably not a center man, ideally in the NHL, and he took that on. He was injured to start the year. He still plays with sort of passionate energy, but productivity for him, if he could pick up to somewhere, even if he doesn't score a bunch, but produces points because he's getting goals, like what did you have last year 48 points for

You know, I think from January on he led the Leafs in five on five scoring And certainly led them in five on five assists So a lot of that was play with Austin Matthews, which takes us back to the original question Which is why you might someday get a shot back there if it doesn't if you know knives go somewhere else but yeah I they are not quite plug-and-play to me noodles because they all you know yeah it's not the same a Dewar is not the same as Reeves is not the same as Robertson they're not all the same player but they unfortunately have had very similar results regardless of how you mixed and matched how they play or who they play with johnny just quickly i'm sure you've seen jonas is the arts are esteemed colleagues lists here

and his uh... combo piece with chris johnson about the centerman that they're targeting or should be targeting who would you pick up that list it's all the usual suspects yet all right or i'll be on their side board i saw with proctel to a long there uh... suspects yeah i thought ryan o'riley on their record or dash on with brock nelson was on their uh... i mean i think you are really it would be

you did you know are to get i think he would be the best person by far from the job uh... i knew that i've had to display i think brock nelson would be a pretty good fit annual product anymore brock nelson played terrible but i think you know i heard i'd just like to rock nelson is a good player but he skates around a pretty good fit. And Nudel's had a game where Brock Nelson played terrible, so I think he's a little scared. I just think Brock Nelson is a good player, but he skates around. There's a black cloud over his head when he skates.

You know, what's that Charlie Brown with that guy that skates around? That's how I view Brock Nelson. His body language is just... I don't know what it is. He's a really good player, but I look at him and it's just like, I don't know, he looks like an energy vampire. I don't know what it like he doesn't play with a lot of like, jam and pace and it's just like he's a good player. But I, I don't know, I've seen guys like that where, you know, is he going to add to the group or is he going to, you know, suck some energy out of the group? I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. It's not just one game. I've watched him throughout his career.

I think he's a really good player. Don't get me wrong. But it just there's something about the body language like I don't know he's overly aggressive. That's a no-fly zone for me. I'll tell you that right now, Noodle's no-fly zone. Listen, don't take my opinion on it i'm i'm saying watch the guy he's a good player but and johnny and i just have different views on you know what this this guy brings to the table and you know maybe different setting to keep keep in mind he's played in the island

forever right so the grass might be greener on the other side and the soul nearie of going for energy and jam and not offense. Like you want everything, of course, which is why Ryan O'Reilly brings all those different things, right? But I don't want, if I'm Toronto,

we've had this conversation seven years in a row. They need help scoring. Clearly on this team, they need help scoring. So, couple of different thoughts. Like obviously, Nas would be incredible. I don't know if Calgary falls out of it, with Nas and Kadri, could you, if they want a guy with term,

or what about, oh, what do you think of, if Boston falls out of it, and Cam Neal is like, we need to make changes, and there's not that many guys, like unrestricted guys, they got Trent Frederick, they got Marshan, but guys with term, Pavel Zaka, Charlie Coyle, do either of these guys get your antenna going at all those are good does not even not

not even read it and i'm forgetting you ever said that i i i don't know why i was like that coils retreat coils that coils heavier but i don't think he's a natural score i think that has got more upside that's act as a better offensive player coil is jit the coil is a is a better offensive player coil is just the coil is a is a solid You know on a good team plays in the third line third line seven man and somebody yeah like

Yeah, anyway, I just kind of talking me into it Johnny You know here guy He could you know there's a guy like he might not hear from him, but he'll chip in in game six with a time The goal late you're like where that guy come from he's Nick Paul, right? Like tell you what I like it. I like that time But I think they'll be scouring for not just the obvious Jonas CJ's article Which are like the obvious sort of candidates out there But even guys with a year or two left which both those guys at Boston have and I don't know if they're available or not But like those kind of conversations guys with a year left the left, which both those guys at Boston have, and I don't know if they're available or not, but those kind of conversations, guys with a year left,

the cap, is the cap gonna go to 93? Gotta go to 95? And where's that gonna go with everything else that's going on business-wise? These are all things that the Leafs have to consider when they expand their search, trying to give themselves the best chance. Because again, I don't know guys,

does this year feel like not just for Toronto but for all the teams in the East it's an incredible opportunity because I don't think there's any team that is like a supernova team even Florida who we all sort of fear because of how good their core is they're not quite as good and the Rangers and the Devils and and wash is sort of new to it they look incredible but they're sort of new to it. And that's why if you're in Toronto, you've got to go all in again. You have to because the opportunity is once again there.

And maybe more so without a Boston or a Tampa or a Florida seem to be sort of a cut above. I'm with you on that assessment and I think that's likely going to lead to some fireworks but we need teams that are willing to trade pieces for all of those fireworks to finally take off but we'll see where it goes. Alright Johnny, have a great weekend. Thank you for doing this. Alright fellas, have a good weekend. Mike Johnson joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline.

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