OverDrive - Johnson on Oettinger's yank from the crease, the Oilers on the cup journey and the Maple Leafs' offseason forecast

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the Oilers securing a spot in the Stanley Cup Final, Pete DeBoer taking Jake Oettinger out of the net and if it was best for the game, the Maple Leafs changing their DNA, Brad Treliving's forecast on the lineup, Mitch Marner and John Tavares' future trajectory, the Stanley Cup views and more.

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Joining us on the Maple Toyota Hotline, TSN hockey analyst, Mike Johnson. MJ, when you saw Pete DeBoer go on the podium last night and say what he said about his goaltender, what was your reaction? Unnecessary. Like why? Even if you believe that in your moment, even if you're frustrated and just, come on, we need to save. The season is over. There's no upside to doing it. They can only hurt you.

And so I don't know why. I appreciate the honesty and the candor, but I just was like, why? I don't know what it is. And it's very true. Between the two of them it's Andre that will have the longer run in Dallas than Pete DeVore so maybe he doesn't care maybe he was just so frustrated at the loss that he just you know lost his cool but just to say exactly what Neil just said you know I wanted to switch it up

we were down early he didn't look sharp but you know we know he's a great goal he's always going to be you know we believe in 100% whatever, some throwaway nonsense. And then you move on. But to go big enough sample size, he ain't getting it done. Yeah. And then also like sort of not even telling him in the moment, AK. Like you have a timeout and I understand you want to rally the troops and get them together, but you can let the guy know, hey, you're out as well.

Tell Casey the Smith to get ready together but you can let the guy know hey you're out as well tell kate is with to get ready he didn't even do that even if you waited for the underhead back to the net like now you get out of here i get into the whole thing was not it was called the the way you have a whole thing yeah i agree that's it's a great word for it i've i've been the guy

where the coach yells down to the end of the bench so i think the guy and i'm not the best right and i don't don't, I would always joke like there's times where a goalie give up two quick goals and then I'm sitting there on the bench painting myself invisible going I don't want to go into this. Like I don't, you know, so you're hiding behind a player and I remember one time where I was backing up Hexie, Ron Hextall, I was with the Allenders and we were playing in St. Louis, but I was the backup and the backup had to sit at the other side of the brink behind Curtis Joseph and like literally in the Zamboni doors.

And what happened is Hexy allowed three goals in whatever it was, eight minutes, and then attacked Peter Nedved. So like all hell was breaking loose and so I'm sitting there and I can see Al Arbor like waving to me like get the hell in there so the doors fly open I skate by Kujo and Kujo goes good luck kid and I but you know like so I'm telling first firsthand like I've been the guy so I would argue what happened is he calls the timeout, he looks at De Smith and goes, you're going in. So De Smith might have gone down to get

his gear, but he didn't tell Jake until after he yelled at everybody. And so Otter had no idea he was pulled. So you're right. It was a clumsy move where he could have said, like I think what he was doing is he probably told to Smith, you're going in, to Smith he would have thought was on the ice already, like heading into the net. But he wasn't. So that's where confusion was. He's like, Jake, get back here.

You're out. This guy's in. It was just clumsy. And then like you said, MJ, no reason to double down after the game when everything's over. I just, what positive could come out of that? Like, where do you go from here, MJ? You're not going to light a fire.

He's not going to train hard and come back with a chip on his shoulder. All he's going to do is get pissed off at his coach and think that his coach doesn't believe in him in the biggest moments, which may in fact be true. Where it goes from here is it's going to make the next two weeks to two months more uncomfortable than it had to be. Because now in exit interviews, what do you think that's going to be like between the Boar and Jim Neal and Jake Ottinger, who was just finishing his first year of an eight-year

contract? Yeah. Like that's going to be damage control. You talked about maybe needing to fly out to see Jake wherever he's at in the summer and go fly fishing with him and say, hey, you know what, sorry, we believe in you, whatever, whatever. It just, that's where it's got to go

because Jake Autinger is not going anywhere. Jake Autinger is going to be the goalie in net the next time Dallas plays an important playoff game and Jake Autinger, quite frankly, is gonna have to play better in the playoffs than he's played the last few years. That is also true. So like, you know, there is some merit in like the facts of the facts. He didn't play great in these playoffs. That's not the only reason they lost. It's not even the number one reason

they lost. But two things can be true. He hasn't been great. He just didn't have to say that out loud. So where does it go? Probably just clean up duty and then you know, on your own put it behind them and maybe just just go back to work and keep playing. But the other part about this and I've never thought about this but I was reading about it the last few days and I've always sort of subscribed to the idea that sometimes even with the goalies not necessarily his fault noodles, you pull them many ways to send a message to the team. And it's like it's not about noodles, it's about fault noodles. You pull them anyway to send a message to the team. And it's like, it's not about noodles.

It's about you idiots. You're the ones who are playing terrible. I'm not gonna do that to our starter. You guys wake up, I'm protecting the goalie. I'm pulling it to wake up the team. And I always sort of thought, that makes sense. And that feels kind of like something that would be true. Except apparently the data suggests that it's not. Like the idea of a poll to get the team to play better it's

factually untrue like it doesn't it doesn't have that kind of impact so I've never thought about that not being correct but maybe maybe it wasn't in fact Dallas was scored on again by to make it three nothing by Jeff Skinner of all people with his first ever playoff goal so it's not like the poll and putting the Smith in worked in the short term because Dallas got scored on again which apparently runs true through historical norms. Mike the Stars they got killed by Edmonton let's call it what it is and Carolina did not fare well against the Florida Panthers is that a testament to the greatness of the two teams that remain or maybe

some shortcomings when it comes to dallas and carolina i go positive here i i i think it you should really celebrate the excellence of florida and of edmonton you look at dallas roster and how good they appear to be and they were manhandled they couldn't get anything done against themmonton and now Carolina is maybe a bit more of a peculiar case given some of their history but you know Florida went through Tampa we know how

good they were and one of the best teams in the league the second half of the season made that look easy. They got through Toronto the fourth best team in the league say what you want about their shortcomings still a pretty good team and they completely dominated Carolina. I think what is clear, the two best teams are in the final and what is clear is that they're the two best teams by a little bit. Like there's no real debate that any other team in either conference was close to as good as these two teams are which makes it great that they're going back for a second year at it and I guess the last several times that team has gone to two in a row both teams have

won so that would bode well for Edmonton second time through here that they would be the winners this time now it's the same two teams again. MJ if you're a player in the Maple Leafs dressing room and you happen to tune in to Brad Tree Living season any press conference yesterday and you hear him say the phrase that is now famous we need to change the DNA of this team how do you interpret that there's all I don't think this is some like mystical phrase that's hard to figure I think I think it's pretty clear that the personality of the team has to change and that can happen one of two ways with new players and that would certainly get my attention if I'm one of the guys who's a

free agent or if I'm one of the guys that might be a bubble player that could trade because they want to bring in new players that have a different personality than the players leaving. So that is clear and that is clear what they're going to try to do. The other part about it is that perhaps the players that are returning need to adjust their game a little bit. Now it's hard to change your DNA because that's at the very root of who you are, but perhaps you have to bring a different approach to how you think you need to play hockey if you

want to do it from the Toronto Maple Leafs going forward. And I think that's it and if I was so maybe if I'm Yark Broke or if I'm Nick Robertson my antenna is going off like oh boy like the change like there's Marner there's Tavares but you know the players like us that feels like he's talking about changing us as well and if I'm you know a player that is you know if I'm Morgan Reilly and I want to stay maybe I got to think about and if I'm you know a player that is you know I'm Morgan Riley and I want to stay maybe I got to think about that if I'm Austin Matthews and I you know I want to lead this team going forward I got to think about

adding different elements to my game different personality as well I interpreted that way and and I think it's I think that it's pretty clear that's what he was intending to say so with who doesn't come back it would be pretty evidence of we felt that they couldn't win with in this particular mix well i mean there and there is also the little bit you know which is the clean water to

the move right yes yes not so there is the idea i may not want that guy back but i can get him out of here so we's gonna be back But yes sort of the the changes will say like but I also think you know some of it and you we've talked about It's like right. Yeah, those four forwards. They're all sort of wired similarly They're also like the way they carry themselves quiet professional and just do their job do their thing Don't really react emotionally don't lash out physically.

And maybe it's not so much that these two guys need to be changed, just two of them need to be changed and there happens to be two that are unrestricted for ages, so it's those two. I don't know if it's necessarily specifically those players, but some percentage of the group of them have to go. So Mike, let me put you in brad tree living shoes mitch mar walks on july first is agent darren ferris also represents and then it comes to you as a came it

is gone sam will come to toronto seven years ten million per do you accept the terms Do you want to lose, Mike? I think he hung up on you. Yeah. Put the Jeopardy song on or whatever. So I don't think he's worth that much.

I think you've got to get that much and I think that's an overpay. But if you're of the mind that you need, if your window is essentially like what, two or three years of Austin Matthews, then maybe you gotta do it. Like you gotta roll the dice and accept the fact that it, you know, may not be maybe a million more than it's worth, or maybe two million more than it's worth. But there's just so few players like him out there,

and given the specific needs of the Leaf team in this moment, you're gonna have to pay a premium for the player that fits it. I wouldn't wanna pay him 10 million. Like I'm not, like I'm not, I would not. If I was a different team, it'd be an easier answer. I'm like, no, you're not worth that. But the Leafs are specifically in the market for exactly what he does.

And so you're going to live with what? A 50 point player for the regular season making $10 million. As I said before, I got more 50point seasons than Sam Bendis I do so he's not he's not a guy who's gonna set the world on fire until the playoffs and you watch him play and it and and he's what the Leafs need he's what they are desperate to add so I guess I'm talking myself into it, I'm probably gonna say yes, I probably would have to do it. Wow, hey, don't be so hard on yourself, MJ. I mean, it's not like comparing you to Sam Ben,

it's not exactly, you're not exactly Chopped Liver, pal. I mean, like, you're gonna be in a career. Well, no one offered me 10 million, I'll tell you that much, for sure. Yeah, but, all right, fair enough, fair enough. Different times, different times, MJ. Yeah, sadly. But when you talk about that, okay, so we're talking about this Conor McDavid refused to

lose stare and you just can't imagine this guy not winning the Stanley Cup. You talk about the Sam Bennett playoff kind of elevation of his game. These guys have that DNA we're talking about, but in your experience on benches watching this league as closely as you do, is there any evidence that it's possible to change your DNA, to become something you haven't been? I mean, yeah. I think there's absolutely evidence of growth and maturity and experience and learn learning lessons and applying those lessons and being better. Like now could a player like me ever play the game like Sam Bennett? No, like that's just not in me to do it. But there are elements you could add. And then I think there's

also like, and I think maybe this is some of the Toronto stuff is that there are players you can follow that help you stretch the boundaries of what you can usually do, if that makes sense. And I think, you know, Matt Sondin was that kind of guy. Steve Thomas, you know, not a Hall of Fame player, was that kind of player. Like you would want to follow what they were doing and they would take you to a spot that you would maybe not have gotten to by yourself. And that's also what Sam Bennett brings to you. That's what Brad Marchand does to your group. They pull you a little bit out of your comfort zone as a player as well, as you try to take yourself there, and it ends up in a better kind of player for this kind of game.

So I think, yeah, I think there can be. There can be growth, there can be change, and it can be different for players year after year. TSN hockey analyst Mike Johnson, our guest, Hour 2 of Overdrive, continues. Brad Treeliving also talked about John Tavares and his tone discussing the player was a lot different than the player's tone discussing the team. Very, very different. Tavares was talking about how he had conversations with Tree Living, with Barube about a contract, he felt good about it. Meanwhile, Tree Living was kind of like, ah, you know, we'll see, we'll see how it goes. Does that mean anything to you, what Tree said

yesterday, Mike? Or is it perhaps just negotiating through the media? I don't think he's negotiating in the sense of, I'm going to try to save some money on John Tavares. I think he is allowing himself the flexibility of going either direction. Like what Tavares was saying was, I want, it was making it very clear, I want to come back and they largely have like what they've done, like I've done here and they like me. That's probably true. And what Trey Lieberman was saying is like, we're not sure what we're going to do. Depends on who's available to tell what else we need we might need that five million

dollars to you know to add a different player in a different way and that's going to be sorry john to barbara i think he did giving himself options by not saying yes we really want to back and will figure a way out a way to do it i'd just you know he's just leaving all options on the table when cars really has his first

option being Toronto. Do you think you... I mean, we've talked about it at length and it's going to be speculation right up to free agency, but probably even up to the draft before it. But do you think you'd be active in the trade market too? That's where I keep going, MJ. We're all talking about free agents. He might have something cooking way before then at the draft where he acquires somebody that we're not thinking of as far as maybe being available or you being able to get him. If I'm the Leafs fans, I am way more intrigued about what that would look like

than what the free agent. I mean, the free agent market, there's like three of them. They all play for Florida. You'd build it. Maybe you'd want Echblad. You probably for sure would want Marchand. You for sure would want Bennett. You know, you want to grab Lin.

The second leading point getter amongst USA players is Matthew Shane. You want Brock Nelson. All good players for sure, but that's not going to solve what Toronto needs. You might as well just bring Tavares back. So yes, I think they absolutely have to explore the trade market. I don't know what they have to trade deals. We've talked about this, not a lot of draft capital, not a lot of young prospects. Ethan Cowan has to play in the NHL next year, so they're not going to trade him away. in the NHL next year, so they're not gonna trade him away. But, and the Morgan-Riley thing is absolutely

part of that conversation. I don't think Morgan-Riley is some untradable asset. I don't think he's a guy that you're gonna have to pay to have someone take him off his hands, even with his contract, given where the cap is going. I think that is part of the summer conversation, what may or may not happen. But the trade market would be way more interesting and could be way more impactful, way more affordable financially

than what the UFA market might bear. Well, Mike, Wednesday night Game 1 Cup final in Edmonton, Panthers, Pat Oilers, who you got? Well, if you rewind our season preview show all of you know i was going to bring that up to m j every yet now was that you've resurrected your call uh... and don't worry about the four flicks of the middle of the season but i don't

know back to the beginning of the year and i'm gonna stick with the tape which clearly showed me picking Edmonton to get back there and win the Stanley Cup and yes I went away from Edmonton to the start of the playoffs and yes I am back on Edmonton into the finals I think the way they're playing is is excellent obviously I think the way that their depth is scoring all of a sudden is a significant difference from teams in the past I think having home ice really matters. I think Leon Dreisettl seemingly healthy. He'll knock on wood but we've seen him play with what some

sort of back injury last year and a busted up ankle a couple years ago. He doesn't have those kind of ailments. Yes Simon hurts but I think it's gonna be a good series and Florida doesn't care about being on the road but I think it's gonna be a good series and Florida doesn't care about being on the road But I think Edmonton has it as long as Stu Skinner Doesn't have more than one off game I'm almost willing to give him one doodles But he can't have more than one because I think Florida's too good if you're gonna spot him a couple games Can't wait. I can't wait for this series. It's gonna be incredible I honestly think that picking either team in less than seven games is just

And I honestly think that picking either team in less than seven games is just disrespectful because of the quality that Florida and Edmonton have demonstrated here for a long time. It's going to be sensational in Edmonton on Wednesday night, as was this radio appearance. Thank you, Mike. Have a great weekend. All right, guys. Have a good weekend. All right. That's Mike Johnson who joined us on the Maple Toyota Hotline.

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