OverDrive - Johnson on Stolarz's injury impact, Marner and Tavares' contract outlook and Hyman's offensive performances

Episode Date: December 17, 2024

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the latest headlines around the league, Anthony Stolarz's injury timeline for the Maple Leafs, Mitch Marner and John Tavares' contract outlook, Zach Hyman's offensive performances, Kappo Kakko's scratch comments and more.

Breaking story from Alpine News Network. Jan owns a home and a restaurant fusing French and Mexican cuisine. But she is fusing no more because her ovens have gone kaput. She called Alpine Credits who sent their speedy superhero. With her business loan approved, her ovens were quickly fixed. The hero even had some of her poutine nachos. Yum! Own your home, need a loan? Alpine Credits can help. Alpine

Credits, where homeowners get approved. Disrelicensed 12-616. Here's Mike Johnson, our TSN Hockey Analyst. Do you think Hockey Canada screwed up now, Johnny, now that we've seen Zach Hyman, who looks healthy, although his face is a disaster. Look at that face, man.

That's worse than Tom Wilson, in my opinion, from last week. No. Yes. Look at his nose. He had like a puck on his face. Look at that guy man that's worse than Tom Wilson in my opinion from last week look at his nose look at that guy's nose Jonas Johnny you answer that for us Hyman or Wilson worse hockey face or better hockey face depending on how you look at it so Wilson's was deformative

but I bet it was less painful I think Zach Hyman's the nose getting all bent out of shape, that, that is way worse. Like I've broken my cheekbone. I've broken my orbital bone and yeah, it's painful.

And I had to play with a cage on, but I kept playing. It wasn't, you know, that difficult, but it wasn't that bad. The nose is a whole nother animal. You get that thing stuffed up your nose.

No, that's a mess. And it, before we get into the Zach Hyman merits, how about just a moment for and I'm not trying to act like I was a particularly courageous guy or

I didn't feel scared ever, but hanging in front of the net, which we all did when we played. I wore no visor. Now, guys can't shoot back when I played that they can shoot now, but I would sit there in front of the net looking for screens and tips and not worried about getting hit in the face with no visor on. And I watch the game now between the benches or I watch it on TV,

and I'm like, that is insane. I would get terrified, and I'm not even part of it anymore. So just the guys that hang in there, aching pucks up around their face all the time is impressive and also a little bit frightening. Crazy. What about Hyman, Team Canada? Do you think they regret not having him on that team?

I don't think so just yet because I think what you're comparing Zach Hyman to, like the delta that Jonas is looking for in the scoring winger position, I don't think they see Zach Hyman as effective as Sam Bennett in the role they're picturing Sam Bennett playing. It's not to suggest he's not a better scorer than he is. Of course that's the case.

But they're not looking at him like that. So he's going to compete with Sam Reinhart, with Mitch Marner, with Braden Point when he plays in the wing. Those are the kind of guys he's competing with and you can make the argument and I can understand it

that he would be good there but I don't think it's some sort of grievous oversight because those guys are as good or at times better and they have done it without playing with McDavid and when they made this pick

Zach Hyman wasn't even playing with Connor McDavid. If he's not going to play with McDavid, it feels like then you're really probably, you're really reaching. What works in his favor is that you can start up with McDavid in an incredibly short tournament and no chemistry will be there. That works in his favor.

But if you get past that, having him play with Nate McKinnon, not that it wouldn't work, but I don't know if it would work better than having Braden Point play with Nate McKinnon. Not that it wouldn't work, but I don't know if it would work better than having Braden Point play with Nathan McKinnon. Do you know who else he played with? Mitch Marner. Hyman David Marner.

That'd be a great line. I don't know. It's funny. Yeah, go ahead. In my preseason, our first goal round, our first time picking the team, which was in September before the season started,

that was my first line. So I know exactly what you're saying. You're preaching to the choir. I completely get it. But given the way he started and given the way the other guys have played, I understand the decision. I'd like that, though. A former Leaf, a current Leaf, and a future Leaf.

And a future Leaf. You know that would be coming out of Toronto, man. You know that's the cover of the Toronto Sun. Listen, we'd be promoting it right here on Overdrive. I think I just did. That game last night was wild and we were talking about that Reinhardt goal.

And naturally, Reinhardt, who is now neck and neck with Dry Settle, chasing down the Rocket. He's coming off 57 goals last year i believe he scored the cup winner right i think he had the second goal in the cup in game seven and he signs for eight years at 8.625 million so there's sam reinhardt again top six on canada in his prime scores massive goals in game seven of the Cup Final. Are you going where I think you're going? 57 goals, and now he's going to do it again.

He's going to double down. What I'm getting to is, how are the other teams, and I'm not just talking about the Leafs, how can you compete with Florida when Reinhardt signs that deal? Like, forget all the other stuff with taxes and palm trees. What's that? You're picking and choosing. You're picking and choosing.

You're picking and choosing. Am I? What about Bobrovsky? They paid him $10 million. Before they had won anything, you're right. They did pay him a lot of money. But that was in the past. So what would you have the league do?

Create, like, specific... It's not even about anything the league can do. I guess I'm asking from us from a position it's a loser mentality admittedly yeah that the panthers they get this guy an advantage well i mean clearly but it's like yeah 8.6 this guy signs for and he's gonna do it again and again and again there's no reason to believe reinhardt's going to be a brutal player in two or three years. If your other GMs, again, I know people are going to say, you're talking about Marner and the Leafs, and sure, that factors in, but I think

there's other teams as well that are like, how are we going to compete with that? How much is Slavkovsky making? Like seven something? Slavkovsky's making seven something. This is a very recent example. It's not like Florida has been great for so long.

Yeah, but Verhage signed a really good deal as well. Yeah, we'll see what happens with Bennett. We'll see what happens with Ekblad as a free agent after this year. We'll see what happens there. Right. I think part of the conversation for Reinhardt specifically was it's not like he had a long track record of

scoring at that level. He was a 30-go of scoring at that level. Yeah. Right? He was a 30-goal scorer who had 57. He wasn't a perennial 57-goal scorer. And I bet if that's the third time he scored 50-something, he wouldn't be sitting at $8-something million. Right?

Like, I think because it was new, because he individually had been on a few different teams and sort of fought to find his best home and realized the value of getting in that best home, which is in Florida, a very good team, plus all the other stuff that's great to go there, plus the team. Then he's willing to take less than he would have probably gotten on the open market. I think it's a really big difference.

And you're right. XBLAB's been high paid for a while. Let's see what happens with him. Bennett's sort of been now with the Team Canada thing. We'll see what happens with him. If Bennett signs for $ now with the Team Canada thing. We'll see what happens with him. Like, if Bennett signs for $6 million, Hayes, you and I will have a summit. Yeah. Right?

Summit. But I don't know if that's going to be the case. I think Reinhardt was a uniquely qualified sort of one-off that I'm not sure it would replicate itself around the league. But you're right. Like, you put them in an advantageous tax situation. You put them into a great lifestyle situation and you put them on a great team. You have the mix for a pretty good recruiting tool.

Yeah. And Toronto and Montreal and not just Canadian teams, but you know, look at the Rangers right now. Like, you know, the tax situation, look at Buffalo.

Did GM just admit it? We only get palm trees and we have taxes. right now like you know the tax situation look at buffalo they think the gm just admitted we don't get palm trees and we have taxes so it's around the league thing that can be overcome with winning i think that is a great equalizer if you are a perennial contender if you are a team that is always challenging for the cups then you will likely get at least other players coming to your team on a slightly discounted rate. So, with that in mind, let's say hypothetically the Maple Leafs do the impossible and win the Stanley Cup this year. Do you think it would be more likely their pending UFAs got more money

than you would expect after winning or less money because they won? You know the answer. You think they'd ask for more after winning or less money because they won? You know the answer. You think they'd ask for more after winning? I mean, I think Mitch Marner would ask for more. I think John Tavares would probably ask for whatever it takes to stay. As much as he can get to stay. And that's not a criticism of Mitch Marner. We have him in the top

10 in the MVP voting. He's been amazing. He's been outstanding. And he's watched his players that he will say, I have played better than Austin Matthews. I know. I have played better than William Nylander this year. I deserve something similar to what those guys more than Nylander, maybe less than

Matthews. That's, again, a case out of itself. It's interesting. Or maybe, I don't know. I think that's how it goes. Or would you say, listen, we've done everything we can.

What does it matter to me whether it's 11 and a half the same as Willie or if it's 12 and a half? Like, it's still another $100 million to go on the first 100 I earned. I'm going to be okay.

Maybe my life is better. Maybe I'm going to buy myself $6 million of grace by getting slightly less and maybe that's worth it. Maybe it's not. I don't know. $6 million is a lot of money but uh yeah toronto i know toronto's different i get it but i'm just saying again using reinhardt and it's an isolated on toronto are different like i don't

even know if toronto's different it's the players like nate mckinnon didn't take a massive discount last year in colorado did he no i would say he. I would say he did. I would say he did. I think he could have got way more than $12.6 million. He was a high-stakes player in the league when he signed that contract. By $100,000. We've done this before, Johnny. It was by $100,000 more than McDavid. You tell me, if he said, I want $13.25 million, Joe Sackick's going to say no?

I mean, he could pay $14,000. Of course. He could have said, they just want a cup. If he said, I want $14,000, he'd be making $14,000 today. No, he wouldn't. Yes, he could say 14. Of course. He could have said, they just want a cup. If he said, I want 14, he'd be making 14 today. No, he wouldn't. Yes, he would. He would have held the line. No, he would not have.

No, he would not have. If it was, I'm leaving, or you got to give it to me? Yes, he had. He had 100 points, yes. Well, can I ask you guys a hard question? What would be your walk-away number with Marner where you're just like, no? That's a great question. That's the best way to put it.

That is a good way to put it. A penny more than Austin, I'm saying no. What if it's for an eight-year deal? I don't care. You're not making more than Matthews. He just signed. It's not like he signed five years ago. He signed a year ago.

It just kicked in. Cap has gone up. We'll go up. I understand that. That's part of the fact that you're saying you can get around the fame is acknowledging the cap going up. Because as great as you are, you're not a centerman, you're not a goalscorer.

It's different. He's won an MVP. He's won multiple Rockets. Yeah, I mean, I think that would be, I don't want to be, like that would be like the let's be rational here conversation. I don't want to walk away from him. I don't want to come to a number where they have to walk away from him because he's that good.

But it's more like let's be reasonable. Let be let's be rational don't think about going more than often that's that's going to make everyone's life more difficult i could see that being the number in the end though 13 yeah i wouldn't be surprised i mean i i i'm it's difficult to predict who knows what's going to happen the rest of the season what you know if mitch keeps playing like this they have a great playoff run or whatever, I wouldn't be shocked if they said, let's just meet right at Austin. Maybe it's a long-term deal. And then again, we'll react to

that when we get to it. But Mitch is different because, again, he's in his prime and he came up with him. Like, Tavares is in a different position. I was asked about it last night with Jay, like the idea that because he's now on a 40-goal pace and he's playing so well, has it become some sort of mandatory obligation to keep him around long-term? And I just don't see how anything could ever happen during the regular season, Johnny,

where I would think that would be smart business for the Leafs. And I'm not predicting they won't see it that way. They may sign him tomorrow. They might. Like the way they operate and they're committed to these guys and they love these guys and I see why they do. I just couldn't reason with the idea of ever signing Tavares between now and the end of the season.

I don't see why it would make any sense. Unless you're getting a great deal. Unless you're getting three years at four and a half a year. Then I'm like, yeah, okay. We can certainly do that. With the way the cap's going. And I think that's probably where the contract, like he'll probably want

four or five years, at least he'll probably want three years and it'll be around four, five, six million dollars and if they find a good number there, that's a good deal that everyone's happy with I guess, but I'm with you, the only danger and not so much with Tavares, I think the the prospect of staying in Toronto, having his kids

grow up here, having a house and all, you know, he's settled here as an adult, as a family. So you don't have to rush him. Mitch is in a different situation. Yes, he's settled here, but he's young enough and his family situation is different. And the closer you get to July 1, the more likely it is that Mitch Marner gets swayed by the prospect of something different.

And if you're worried about that, that's the only risk you're taking, right? He's like, yeah, Mitch, if he's like, well, we got to the second round here. I'm playing great. I had a great year. Like now I'm super bullish on my contract here, or maybe I'll see what else is out there because they didn't show me the love when they could have. So now I'm going to make sure that I get the love I can get anywhere

and explore other options. It's a delicate maybe act. Now I can hear the fans sort of roll their eyes as we say it because they've been down this road so many times before. It's December.

And they haven't had the success of the playoffs. So let's just let it play out. Lula Amarello, if you have time, use it. Don't force it. Well, Amarello, if you have time, use it. Don't force it. Well, Mike, let me ask you,

because one part of this that I don't think gets enough talk is we assume what he is today is just what he's going to be. My question to you is, what do you think his next three or four years look like? Won't it be as good? I don't know how much better he's going to get. And that's not to be dismissive. I just know he's sort of at the top of his game.

Like, you know, Mitch is, what is Mitch now, 28? Are you asking Mitch or Tavares? No, I'm asking Tavares. Oh, you're saying John. I'm asking Tavares. Oh, John. I mean, I think his next three years, they go, you know, the stuff he's good at will continue to be the stuff he's very good at

even though he gets maybe not quite as good at it like he's still gonna be able to check and take face-offs and he'll be working hard to maintain his speed as best he can like so like if i'm paying him four or five million does he go to 30 goals to 25 to 20 okay and from 70 points to 60 to 50 completely reasonable if If he's playing second line, maybe third line set power play unit stuff, completely reasonable. Um, but I think with the cap going to be a hundred million dollars in three years,

having a third line center make four and a half million dollars, it's not going to bother me. Yeah. So I, I, I'm anticipating, um, you know,

a decrease in his productivity because that happens to everyone virtually at his age. He's done an amazing job fighting it off, but I'm not counting on him being this good every year. If he plays something closer to last year where five-on-five production was harder for him, at $4 to $5 million, that's still not a bad deal at all. So Anthony Stolarz having a procedure tomorrow. What's with the pebble?

A pebble in his knee. Like, what's that? Was that? Exactly. Haven't you guys had something like this? Like, I've had this before, where it's like you have, like, a little piece of something that... Did you... Like a bone fragment.

Yeah. Or I think the cartilage or something's floating around. Yeah. And you could feel it? Yeah. Because, like, why don't we call it that instead of the pebble? Yeah, the pebble seems... Because I think that's what it looks like on the x-ray.

I think that's what Brad Shulman was trying to say. Right, but would they have found this if they didn't have the MRI? No. This is what I don't understand. Clearly something was bugging him. Yeah, no, something was bugging him. He couldn't straighten his leg. And then I guess they got tests done, and this is what the tests showed.

Alright, so four to six weeks. I feel for the guy. He's played so well. There was always this concern. How many games is he going to play?. I feel for the guy who's played so well. There was always this concern, how many games is he going to play? Now, obviously, the number is going to drop and possibly drop significantly if it's closer to six weeks or six weeks plus because you never know. Six weeks plus four nations takes him to the end of February. Exactly.

Now you're talking like a long break, and maybe he's only going to start 15 more games the rest of the way or something along those lines. Where does Joseph Wall come into play? How big of an opportunity is this for him to rewrite his own reputation and possibly take the reins here and maybe never look back if he doesn't have to? Doesn't this set up Joseph Wall to be in the exact same spot that he was in coming into training camp?

He's going to have a backup, but he was sort of the perceived guy that needed to earn or play his way well enough to be the number one guy to get the two-thirds of the starts. And it didn't go that way because of injury, because of Stolar's excellence. But he's right back there, except he's going into this run with great form and confidence of a goal, where he's played really well this year. So, I mean, obviously it's a huge opportunity, and responsibility for that matter.

It's not like he doesn't have the luxury of Stolar's behind him anymore. Like, he has to be good, and he has to be ready to play two out of every three games, and stay healthy while doing so. And if he can do that, then so many of the questions that people would have had about Joseph Wall, including the organization, will have been answered. If he can't, the flip side is, though, if he can't, then it's really bad news because this is it.

This is the moment where you need him to be the guy that you think he is, the guy that he's shown himself capable of being. And if he can't because of performance or more likely maybe because of health, then that's really tough. And that puts the Leafs in a really difficult bind as well. Yeah, this cannot be a scenario where in a couple of games he mysteriously disappears and can't play exactly. He's got to play.

He has to play. You've got to play. He has to play. You've got to play hurt sometimes, even as a goaltender. And hopefully you're not going to run into that scenario, but he cannot be like, something's not feeling right, I'm not going. Well, and you can build credibility with your team. Yes, which I think he has to. Like what happened in Game 7 last year, how he started the year. I think he's got to do that.

Speaking of building credibility within the room, this Capo Caco comment that came out today. I don't mind it, though. Okay, you don't mind it. You don't mind it. I mean, no. Okay, let me read it here quickly, okay? Let me find, where did I have it?

Okay, this is what he said. He's just speaking the truth, but he's just saying it out loud, which we don't usually do. We don't. And he was a healthy scratch the previous game and and kako came out down in new york and said quote haven't been on the ice too much when opponents score a goal i haven't been the worst guy but that was me out of the lineup end quote um and i went on to say it's easier to take the young guy out than the veteran now a lot of people pointed out he's in his sixth season in

the league he's not a rookie his sixth season in the league. He's not a rookie. He's been in the league for quite some time, but what do you make of that? He's like a teenager. Still, he's six years into the league. He's not a rookie. On that team, he's treated as the young guy. Right. So what do you make of it?

It's unusual. He probably should have said this to Lavielette. Like, hey, that's garbage. I know I can be better, but I'm not the one that you need to take out. I'm not the one who deserves to get pulled. We're worried about defense. I am by far your

biggest priority to fix what ails us from the forwards. I think he's also a guy who doesn't necessarily care if he gets. And I think he's also a guy who doesn't necessarily care if he gets traded. I think Kako has sort of explored the idea of going elsewhere because he doesn't like that he's still

getting ice time and opportunities like he's a young guy. Now, he hasn't scored a ton at the NHL level, so how much juice does he have to demand trades or think that I should go elsewhere and get a power play opportunity or top six minutes, whatever? But that's how he feels, and I think he's expressed that I should go elsewhere and get a power play opportunity or top six minutes, whatever. But that's how he feels.

And I think he's expressed that to the Rangers. And isn't this the worst case scenario is? Like they float. Well, they do a good draw in the summer, make them 15 minutes, pick your spot or you're going on waivers. They talk about Trouba. We want to get ready in the summer. It comes out to everyone on the team pretty clearly, even around the league.

And he said, no, I want to stay for my family. And then they put Kreider and Truba out there publicly. Then they trade Truba with a threat of waivers and scratches. And he, you know, he tried to fight for his family and it didn't work. And at some point you wonder, will there eventually be pushback from the entire team against the general

manager or the organization, which almost never happens. Can we think about a time when the team's like, this GM's treating us bad and we don't like it here? Because generally, like, that affects you. It doesn't affect me as your teammate. Like, I'm sad for you, but, like, I'm also worried about my own situation. But I wonder if the general manager in his moves have lost the room a little bit,

which is almost unheard of to say in the NHL. But I wonder if Kako is like, I don't know. I'm okay with being out of here. I'm going to pipe off a little bit. And if different guys start talking less about what do we got to do to fix this and like, boy, Chris Drury is being a jerk with stronger language. So I think some of it, it's all of that. It's Kle being frustrated.

It's Cockle maybe wanting to get traded. It's Cockle being correct in that, you know, they could have picked other better candidates to scratch instead of him. And it just speaks to the tough spot the Rangers are in where it's all going wrong right now for New York. Oh, it's a mess, man. It does feel like there's a real issue within that room. Right. You know, like the's a real issue within that room. Right.

Like the whole thing. What is happening? I know. They won the President's Trophy last year. Yeah, and they started the year very well. They were winning a lot of games early in the season. Shusterka was a big part of that, and Quegg. But, yeah, they're a mess, man.

They're a mess, and now you've got the Sabres and Habs. I saw that. They got Nashville with one win in ten. You've got the Rangers floundering. Good news is somebody wins. Bad news is somebody's losing to a team that is struggling mightily as well. Same thing with Sabres and Habs tonight. One of them's got to win.

Someone's got to win a hockey game tonight. All right, Johnny. We'll catch up later in the week. All right, guys. Have a great week. There he is, Mike Johnson, our TSN hockey analyst, joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. Check out Maple Toyota's huge truck and SUV lineup, including Tundra, Forerunner, Highlander, and Grand Highlander in stock and ready

to deliver. Visit MapleToyota.com.