OverDrive - Johnson on the Maple Leafs' miraculous comeback, Berube losing his cool and Olympics team look ahead

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the NHL, who the Maple Leafs can clone to bolster their team, how Toronto can flip the switch on the roster, Craig Berube's role to the team, the locks for Canada and more.

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Mike Johnson joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. Johnny, go ahead. Cologne some players for the leaves that they can acquire here. Okay, I'm going to clone a guy just down the road. Alex Tuck. That's a guy that could have the Toronto Maple Leaf News. He's pending UFA. He might be available.

Big, physical, play at all situations, can score at 5 on 5. Has won a cup before. Been in Vegas when they went really deep. I don't think he won the second year. but it's been an instrumental piece of a winning team. Somebody like that would be very nice. They need more good players with pace and tax one of the fastest guys in the league. They're slow.

The least right now are slow. And so someone who can play with pace, O'Dong, I think Alex Tucky is sort of my number one target, dream target for the Toronto Maple Leaf so they could ever acquire him this year if Buffalo falls out of it. And if they don't get him, they can clone them. Then they can clone them. And then, you know, do they need one more center?

They need a third, like, a lot of centers. They need, like, another good center. I got to think about who that might be. But, you know, someone like Nas, but younger. But someone like Nazem Kadri, who can play. So at 25. Yeah, listen, I'm just saying, like a Colorado version of Nazim Kadri. Yes, exactly.

You can play in behind a number one guy, be agitative, who has one, can produce offense as well, but doesn't have to play in the par play. I think you get two guys, I don't even four. Two guys like that, and the roster, both have to be fast, the roster looks really different. What about a defenseman, Johnny? Because that's been a hot button topic in the 4 o'clock hour. We talked about the roster construction of the Leafs, the TANF injury, and obviously, you know, puck transporting, as you've been talking about,

is that something that would be high on your wish list? Yeah, ideally with the right shot. behind it would be quite important because after Tannum they don't maybe have a guy that does that Carlos a steady eddy but he doesn't pass the puck or advance it very well so yeah right shot

Rasmus Anderson a guy like that these guys are all available they'll cost too much relief to pay leaps don't even have enough available if they wanted to go get them all but guys like that I mean those are the pieces that they cannot afford to pay

their contracts or the price to get them but pieces like that change this team. But, you know, every team wants guys like that. That's the other problem. Talk to Montreal about a second line center. Talk to Ottawa about a right-shot defense. And around the league, everybody wants the same thing. And there's only so many of those guys out there that might be available or even clonable.

Well, Brian Hayes brought up a great point earlier in the show that the league is diluted, Johnny. But I'd like to ask you, with the Leafs being where they are at 7 and 5, with how crazy that game was last night, what is a reasonable position for a reasonable leaf fan to be in regarding their team right now? Because their emotions would have been all over the map watching that last night saying these guys stink because how many games have they stunk this year?

A lot of them. And yet they're seven and five. They're in the mix and it's kind of leafy. And where should at least fans' emotions be right now regarding the team? the leaf fans would probably appropriately be sort of cautiously concerned yes the record's good which you appreciate yes they've had previous bad octobers that you're not going to overreact to what was not a great october

but even in those bad octobers you could see the the blueprints as to why the team might be good in the end what would make them successful it just wasn't happening every single night we haven't seen that we've talked about this almost every single single week exactly how the least are supposed to play, how they're going to play to be successful. And I mean, last night,

and it's not going to bury them for one bad game. A lot of teams have bad games. So that first 40 minutes was almost as bad as I can remember them playing. I mean, it was just that for that group. Now, to their credit, they needed 20 minutes and really great players and they won the game,

which they will have all year long. But they haven't shown the ability to play with this coach, with this system, with this personnel, a brand of hockey that will be consistently winning games in the NFL. So, oh, that's why you had panic, but you can't feel certain that it's going to get demonstrably better as we go through the next month either. Well, how do you feel about, and I believe at practice today, the top line was Nize Matthews Neelander. How do you feel about that? Like the three of them sticking together and riding it

out for a while. Eggs in one basket, I guess they've tried enough of everything else that they are going to put all their top players and poor John DeVar's like, wait a second, I'm one of the top guys where's my good line? But, um, and hope that that line carries. I mean, we see it with

Edmonton and Dry Settle play together. I'm in Montreal tonight. Montreal's in first place. They have one line that is one of the best lines in the league, the Suzuki line. The other three lines don't do as much. They're not, they're not particularly strong. But when you keep it close play, good defense, good goal-titting, and your top line can do it every single night.

That can be enough. But that just highlights exactly the same point we talked about to open with this fantasy cloning business. They don't have enough top six players. They don't have enough of them available to themselves to sort of make the lineup work to the way they would ideally have it work, which is with Neelander and Matthews on separate lines. So I don't hate it.

I just wonder how long they'll stick with it because Craig Barubei has shuffled the a lot already this year. Like in game, game to game, there's been zero continuity. And we always think about that in the terms of Matthews or Nylander or Nyes. But I would say it's way harder

for the guys that are getting shuffled on and off those situations. You think it's like for Cowan, for Robertson, for McMan, for Domi, for whoever, it's almost impossible for those guys to get any sort of rhythm and confidence

and structure to their day-to-day existence. Sometimes it's a message sending. Sometimes it's message sending from the coach where the coach is like, I got to keep doing this because there's nobody else, and he's trying to show everybody upstairs where it's like, you want to see that guy, there's that guy, and then there's that guy, and then there's that guy, and none of them are doing the job, so what else do you want me to do?

I'm not saying that's the case, but a lot of time I'm going to. Right, but not to the players, because the players just get fumbled around, and they're not getting the best. of the players, which is what the coach wants to try to do. Now, if it's a passive-aggressive, listen, look at me. I'm looking every single guy in the roster I've tried, and none of them are good. So go get me another guy to put on this roster. That feels healthier to have a conversation and say that,

as opposed to perhaps do it to the detriment of your team. So I just don't think for those guys, and you think about, like, Robertson and Cowan and McMahon, have all had not long-tenured runs in the NHL. So those guys are already on eggshells, right? It doesn't take much to throw them off Like getting pulled off the first line After a bad period and a half That would stick with you for a few days

I just think that would be something That I would want to be aware of While they rotate all these guys So if you're going to go Whatever it was, what was it? Robertson and McMahon and Savaras You might have to keep them there for three, four, five games And let them feel like that's where they belong

Because they're good enough And then see what happens So Johnny, if you're Craig Barubi is it a balancing act because you can't be yelling and screaming at the team all the time. So, you know, have you seen, I mean, you're in between the benches, you know, watched every game. Have you seen a different Craig Barubi or has he been patient at times? Has he been yelling and screaming? Because we almost saw some wild swings from Chief last night where it was early and he was barking at his group.

And then, you know, he must have said something between the second and third because they came about like gangbusters. So I would say that despite Craig Baroube's playing career being somewhat volatile, he is a pretty calm behind the bench. Like he rarely yells at guys. He doesn't explode. And we've seen the clips of him telling Mark Savar to settle down. Like he's pretty even kill.

I have seen whatever we are, a dozen games into this year, already more emotion spilling over than I saw in the entire. year last year. He's already shown greater frustration what's going on in the middle of a game that we virtually saw at all last year. So I think that's where he's at. I think he's frustrated. I think he's trying to figure out how do we get these guys to play better? How do we get these guys to do what I envision them doing? And at some point, we can talk about sort of intensity and physicality and juice and all. Like they're obviously trying. It's not a group of guys who are not going to try. I just don't know

if they, it might be square peg round hole. Like it just, the way they play doesn't work with the way he wants them to play. And that's something that they have to work out as a group. But I will say this, oh, noodles, hey's you too. I think a lot of this, you know, what did he say after the second? As if

you know, the streaming, yelling coach, which probably wasn't that, but if it was, was the reason they came back and won. If that was the case, they would have played better in the second period. Like this idea that somehow, I want to hear what Tree said, or what Craig Perrube said. He said, wake up, you guys stink, play better.

Something to that effect, which he will repeat 20 times this year, and this will be the only time it works. I don't know about this Newt Rockney, John Tortorella explosion that rallied the troops. I don't buy it. I don't know what you guys think. I didn't have it much of my career where that sort of worked. They yell because they're mad because you're playing bad.

You still play bad. You don't often turn it around. So I don't know how much credit I'm giving. any sort of passionate second period speech from the coach i'm not buying it well you also need the other team to do their part right and pittsburgh didn't play as well in the third period you know like they ran out of gas and to the credit of the leaps the the second matthew scored you could sense it pittsburgh realized we're in trouble lost his guy too lost his guy yeah off the draw and then then couldn't couldn't catch up to him and it was a brilliant play brilliant pass by mccabe

and then it's, you know, Willie scores quick and it just, that's a team that has been running on confidence and played really well and their goaltending's been great and all of a sudden the damn broke and the least took full advantage to their credit. But it takes two to tango when you're down three nothing. You know, you need to play better, but the other team's got to kind of take their foot off the gas.

And I think that's what happened last night. Yet, you know, again, you look at you're in Montreal tonight. Montreal, because of the expectations, they're off to a great start. Nine and three, their top players are phenomenal. Caulfield's been great. Suzuki's been great. Demadov and Hudson, you go on and on and on.

The Leifes are three points behind them. You know, like, it's not, again, there's a glass half empty. There's a glass half full. Like, the Leafs could be two weeks away from being the top seat in the East. Like, it's not inconceivable. That's the talk we need around here. But it's the truth. It is.

I'm not disputing how they've been playing. I'm not saying they've been playing great. The point is, you know, there's a lot of teams in their position. And in the top four teams in the East are Montreal, Detroit, New Jersey, Pittsburgh. None of them scare the other teams in the East. None of them scare Toronto, Florida, Tampa, Carolina. None of them are scared of those teams. So I don't think anybody's afraid of anybody right now.

That might be the best way to put it out is I don't know if anyone's afraid of anybody. Yeah. Colorado and Vegas might get somebody's attention just because of their personnel and their depth, but I don't think anybody's scared. Look, it's proven in the point differential within divisions. Bottoms, like five points away from the top. Yeah. But that's the parity in the league.

What did you use the word? Oh, watered down league, whatever. Oh, the league's been watered down for five years, Jamie. Someone tried to steal my saying, but they used it. So diluted. Diluted. That's my word. You've got to come up with your own noodles, but I'll allow you to use it.

Yeah. Go ahead. But there isn't, there isn't, that's the. crazy part. Pittsburgh was the only team in the off-season that was kind of, quote-unquote, rebuilding or open for business, right? This explains why.

Right. Now, there's still, you got to be realist in the league. Yeah, but, yeah, like, Calgary is a team, but it's awesome. Like, they're at the bottom. They've got three wins. But, like, Calgary is a team that, you know, they rely on their goal tender quite a bit, and

and everything has to line up for them to get to 96 points like they did, last year. But there isn't a team that is flat out scorched earth going for McKenna right now. No, you're right. Correct? Like even San Jose and Chicago's been good. Like, you know, they've lost a few in a row now, but they're...

They may not make the playoffs, but they are not, you know, hell-bent on coming in last. They're trying to grow and get better. Yeah, and they might not want to move guys, Jamie, because they're going to say, well, next year we've got to have some guys still here to keep going. But that's why I see... I see, you know, the league is bunched up. There's a couple that had a great starts. There's a couple that have had poor starts,

but everyone else's three, four points, because they're only 12 to 14, 15 games in. So it's still early. We'll see a separation. What do you think, Johnny, a month from now, like with another 10 games? It's so tight. I don't know, probably my tech's all the new year,

but I also think the least were in the last place in the East yesterday before the game. It's crazy, right? Yeah, right. I think literally in the standings they were last. Now they're back in a playoff position. But yeah, I mean, I think Tampa has come. We talked about Tampa last week.

Tampa's got it figured out all of a sudden. They won five in a row. They're going into Colorado tonight. They look like they're figuring it out. But yeah, this is the reality. Other than Pittsburgh, who still may get there, there is not one team in the East that is in a rebuilding mindset. So they're like if Buffalo might not be good,

but they're going to try to be good, right? They're going to contribute to work to be that. it's going to be harder like the longer this goes and we're already you know we say you know they're just getting going in two weeks they're going to be a quarter of the way through the season they'll be at 20 gamesish right

they get a quarter of the way through the season I think the longer this goes the more likely it's going to stay tight to the end of the year some will drop off and maybe one or two will get away maybe but I think the days of March 15th rolling around and three five teams in the east saying we're home and cooled

that's not going to be the case this year No, and that'll set up for a great stretch run, and you get the Olympic break as well, and that's going to have an effect on, you know, the jockeying for positions. And, you know, speaking of which we're getting closer to Canada and all these nations having to announce their teams. And if you look at it, as of November 4th, the leading point getter in the league is Mark Schifley, Mark Schifley, who was not on the four nations team. O's guy.

Oh, was adamant this summer that he had been on the team? My assistant GM, oh, with his research. coming through he's not like lock's a strong word because lock is like I'd say Mitch Martiner's a lock he's he's good yeah he's got up to a good start he's up the last team but Shifley is is he's on the team obviously and he's almost on the team no matter what happens the rest of the way yeah he's gotten off to a brilliant start there's probably going to be what three or four new forwards and maybe one or two new defensemen and who knows two new goal he's probably too quick one uh Shifley will force his way on there

Celebrini, Suzuki. Nick Suzuki. I'm just going to say Nick Suzuki would be a guy that I would have to circle. He's a lock. Suzuki is a lock to make this a lock. What position is he on the team? There's no, he's playing third line center. So you can have Connor McDavid one, McKinnon 2,

and allows to put Braden Point and Sidney Crosby on the wings and have Suzuki play three. And he can play offense. I got him with Mitch Marner and maybe Celebrating, something like that on the third line. And they can play office, they can play defense, whatever you want, and just be a gross third line. Good line. I love Sellebrini.

Do you think he's a lock, though? I like him as a lock, guys, just because of 2010, they had some young studs that nobody really thought was going to make it. That Dowdy, yeah. Yeah, Jonathan Taze, like, there were some young studs that were like, yeah, they just were good enough, they're on it. They didn't second guess it. They didn't piss around. You're good enough, you're on it. Doughty, by the end of the tournament,

I think he was one of the leading minute munchers. He was. Taves, too, was playing a ton. And Taves, as well. Jumped right up. And you're going to ask him to play wing, right? They're not going to ask him to play center.

He's not going to be on the power play. But you're going to need explosive skaters. Right? You need players who can make plays. And what I was still about, Celebrini is three points out of the scoring league in the league. Yeah, he's been great. I don't know how you wouldn't have him on there in lieu of,

like, Sam Bennett's gotten off to a tough start. Sorrelli's better now, but Hegel had a really slow start as well. Those are some of the guys that probably, as much as the coach would love them, I wonder that they're not necessarily guaranteed to be back. Well, Brad Marchand's another one. Like, I don't see him. But he's gotten off to a good start.

That's the question. And Sid, you know, I don't know if Sid's got a vote, but he'd probably advocate for him. One thing is, Brian, that I think somebody brought it to your attention about a month ago. was like, I think you thought it was Olympic-sized ice, and it's not. No, it's not. No, I never, I know it's NHL ice, it's not NHL rules, was my point.

Is the difference with, like, four nations, there's fights, there's fights, there's sticks, there's scrum. Yeah, there's no fighting going on that. There's none of that. There's no scrums. I think it's also going to be, sorry I said that. Yeah, no, it's all good. Half NHL refs, half international refs. So the refting crews

will also be blended as far as how they call a game. Oh, yeah. You blow a guy up at the Olympics. There's some guy from Slovakia. The head shot, dude. The arm is going up. Five in a game, dude.

Five in a game. Tom Wilson's on my radar. I don't think he's going to be on the team. He should have been there at the four nations. He should have been in Montreal. Those international reps, they're allergic to body contact. And I remember I was playing with Tyson. Tyson hit a guy so hard when we were playing together in Europe.

He knocked the guy's helmet 20 feet in the air. It was a clean hit. The refs blew it down, and they didn't know what to call. Both teams were perplexed. I guess they threw them out. Well, they called a five-minute major for what? Like, both teams were upset. The commissioner came out of the stands.

He was on the ice in his shoes. It was ridiculous, and it was a clean hit. But, like, the reffing, you're right, Johnny. And you experience all the time, but the world's in that. The reffing's so much different than NHL standard, correct? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and you have to, you know, be aware of that.

and choose your team accordingly. I mean, it just, you know, it's going to be, it's going to be one of the factors. But, yeah, it's coming around soon. But Shifley, O, your guy, lock them up. Okay. I like it. Shifley, Suzuki, Celebrini makes a lot of sense. Defense, I don't, I'm curious what they do there, you know, and even with the

goaltending, like, Binnington is on the team, clearly. Yeah, but it, yes, 100%. It, you know, Logan Thompson, Kenper, Jake Allen, are sort of the best playing Canadian. Now, Keper hasn't been great, but Logan Thompson's been incredible. He's been like the best guy in the league.

I don't know if they love the idea of him being on the team. I don't know. And Monteboles had a tough start, and so, and Aiden Hill, I mean, Aden Hill's there too, right? So it's just a... Tough start and hurt. Yeah.

So, I mean, at the end of the day, it's Bennington's net to lose, basically. And they have... St. Louis hasn't had a great start, but Bennington's still the guy. And they trust him. Doug Armstrong, that's his guy. Yeah, he's on it. I'm not disputing that.

I'm just, I'm wondering, you know, it feels like we're going to get back to the tournament, not feel great about that position, and you're going to have to just trust Bennington to come alive, you know, and step up in the biggest moments, like he did at the Four Nations. Exactly. And then if it's Thompson,

and I don't know, I'm curious to see what they do there. And again, on the point, we'll see because, you know, doubting. I say Theodore would be healthy, right? Yeah. He didn't play last eight last tournament because he broke his wrist or whatever. Harley will be there the whole time, probably. Taves McCar will be there.

Morrissey will be there. Guys like Perrako and Dowdy. But who's your right shot guy? Dark horse for you, Hayesie, before we go? Brandon Montour. Ooh. Brandon Montour, Seattle. You want a guy with lively legs, competitive spirit, doesn't back down from any

moment or anybody. And he shoots right? He could be one of the eight. And maybe he plays way to a bigger role. the team or something I'm just saying stay tuned next Monday there may be a release coming okay

okay let me throw this one out mini jerry's Matthew Schaefer's on the radar Shafers on the radar conversation is my radar I don't know let's say 12 defenseman

periphery of the radar is he in the top 12 for Canada no he's not in the top 12 no no I love Matthew Schaefer I love everything about him. I just think as great as he's been, you still see him make the odd mistake. He still plays

defense like he can correct everything with his legs. Because he gets out of position, he gets caught up ice, but he catches people. In that tournament, he won't be able to catch everyone, and you can't make those mistakes. He's still learning. He's still... He's so good, but I just... He's special, though. I just don't think he's

so good. He's so good. I just don't think in that kind of tournament, they would pick Drew Dowdy over him 10 out of 10 times just because of the experience. Okay. That's fair. All right. We'll leave it there, Johnny. Have a great call tonight. Should be a fun one. We'll do it later in the week. All right, fellas. I'm good night. There is Mike Johnson joining us here in the Maple Toyota hotline.

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