OverDrive - Johnson on the Maple Leafs' offseason views, the possibility of the Core Four return and players that fit

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the Maple Leafs' offseason standpoints, if the team should run it back next season, the possibility of the Core Four returning, players that could fit the roster and more.

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now available on the free i heard radio ask your smart speaker to play brian adams radio and i have radio was ready to rock here's mike johnson at the s hockey analyst. Johnny, brace yourself. Brace yourself. Okay. Darth Vader wants to say something to you. Go ahead, Johnny.

Johnny, I've got a potential topic and I want to see if you'll jump on board with a little secret society group that I'm creating and it's called the Run It Back group. Is there anything that I can tell you to make you join team run it back or you completely done well it's not much of a secret society for asking about but other than that yes of course of course you could it's not even a hard self

depending on actual situations that you're going to offer up due to this membership of this very exclusive group. I just have to say, I was joking and you make me sick that you're on board with this. I don't think you are joking. I don't think you are. I know Johnny's not. Tell me this. Well, Johnny, let me first tell you where this originated from. I just get the sense in this market where it takes about this amount of time, which is approximately 10 days, for the Run It Back group to come alive. It's like a Michael Jackson thriller video.

They come out of the ground and they're like, it's okay. There's nothing. It's crazy how they want to get rid of everybody and then days later. It's like that. Let's just run it back Temperature drops move on to other things sort of become disinterested maybe have a little perspective But oh if you were to tell me okay, let's say John DeVar I'm gonna come back for two years at four million dollars Okay, so he's no longer core for he's just your third line center and a Mitch Marner says all okay I'll do seven years in 10-5 third-line center and mitch martin says all of the other seven years and uh... ten five

and johnny let me just interrupt the stars he could last that hang on a second year this is gone out of serious this is the this is where you are going to chat you're the one who came with a secret society about a lot of deals well i don't know but but well when it comes to the bars like people are attaching the dollar value to him where it's just you have to do it at that number.

But come playoff time, he's still got to go out in the ice and perform. Like what happens if he gets matched up against Lundell next year? He'll just get chewed up alive at 35 years old. Like so what's... Well he won't have to because Lundell is going to be a second line center because Sam Bennett is going to leave and he's going to get a little third line for the weekend handle whoever some random you know

but the end of the guy but can he we all think that well in here and with the money you spend on the other after because you have a seven million dollars a year on him but what i think you're playing against that third line center is a bastard to play again well i think it's not okay well, like the point is, how you gonna okay, see, okay, what's the alternative? You let him walk, totally understand, totally understand. I'm not, I'm just, just, you let him walk. So now you're gonna fill your second and third line center job for

approximately $12 million. How is that gonna happen? Like, and so I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, but it might be the best one you have available that's sort of feasible that you can maybe work out. That's the reality. What we want to happen, what we think should happen might not equate to what can actually happen. And that is, like, you can go get Matt Duchesne, he's not going to come here, but like, you know, Michael Grandland to be your second line center and Tavares, like these are the options you have. Brock Nelson who's 34 and you're gonna give him six or seven years to be your second line center.

And I like Brock Nelson. Like I don't know if that's a better alternative. There's just, there's not a lot of other guys out there. So you know I'm on team, no change is necessary. But if you start evaluating the market and what's out there, especially with Tavarez, and he's willing to take a deal that's well below his market value because he wants to stay in this market,

he specifically would be someone you're like, you think about just third line centerman. He wins 60% of his face off, like you're not counting on, I know Florida does, but generally speaking, you don't count on your third line centerman to get more than maybe 20 goals and maybe 45 points. He will obviously vastly outproduced that and maybe even in the playoffs, he gets half a point a game would vastly outproduced usual third line center.

And you gotta like adjust what we think he is to what he actually would be, which would be a depth contributor, which he probably would be pretty good at for a couple of years. Now I don't want to give him four years or five years because he's not going to be as good for your fighters now but if you can get it short i think that the conversation you have well i think you know the what the way you're you're you're saying that uh... is the way is the way i can see brad tree living saying it or seeing it and i i think

the why stop there that you are accurate well you can then you just continue with more because you know ultimately what would end up happening what has happened here the last three or four years and i think why stop there that you are accurate well you can then you just continue with more because you know ultimately what would end up happening what has happened here the last three or four years and i think in the end is what got shanahan is it wasn't enough session to win it was being terrified of losing if you're terrified of losing

you keep this guy's that is that is that is very liberal use of language to suggest and brennan shanahan terrified of losing you keep it as a better than that is very liberal use of language to project and brennan shannon it's not a was not upset to win scared of losing like you know the why they just keep bringing them back because he was an explanation

but he believed it for me than you that's why flat out now he was wrong but like any and that's a different he was wrong to believe but this core with this group at this time We'll be good enough to do it She was wrong But to suggest he did it cuz he was you know, he's like happy to be a hundred point team and not worried about getting a third

Round that's not who these guys are. That's not who he is. Really? Really Johnny we think everyone's uber obsessed and crazy. I don't I mean paint me cynical but I'm not you don't think that you don't think that multiple-time Stanley Cup champion Hall of Famer who took this job in his hometown was obsessed with trying to win I'm sure you can think he desperately wanted to re but if you desperately wanted to win okay so what are you talking about I think he loved his job too I think a lot of people love their jobs they say it all the time guys are always like oh just trade those picks I'll be gone by the time.

Guys think about their keeping the job. Guys that happens sometimes. We cannot be that naive. Be naive, no. Yes, to think that everyone in the league is just so obsessed and I'm willing to gamble with my whole life and career to go for it or I can take this route and I have a great life for the next decade, really? I don't think so, man.

I don't think that's... I'm not saying that's 100% the case with Shanahan. And again, I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying in a way. It's the idea that if Marner leaves and Tavares leaves, that's terrifying because they might get significantly worse than Miss. And I don't know if I want to live in that world, but the opposite is, I got to let them go because I got to try the other one because I got to try to win.

I'm not saying it necessarily in the insulting manner in which maybe you're interpreting it, but I just think that may happen this time. Because these guys are really good players, really good regular season players to make the playoffs and i mean i think i think newt well i would free this would be

the comfort or competent knowing any good with a good chance versus the unknown of what your chat by look like if you make those changes and that's and softer language and i don tell you that you would go lose i'll take the unknown every time after what's going on that's the way i look at it's like well how could it be worse like you're not going to miss the playoffs

is that like does that the nuclear option yes but i don't know i mean i something different as a part of that i think all i think only as they continue to tinker over the last several years And maybe where this summer is different is that? One the contracts they were under so they they had they you know to move off these guys was Harder because they had no trade protections or whatever it might be they didn't have the ease of movement that they have this summer And they also maybe believe that the rest of the roster was more flawed

that they have this summer and they also maybe believe that the rest of the roster was more flawed than just these guys and they thought they could somehow with this group of high-paid players they could fill the rest and they did they did fill the rest but in the end it wasn't enough which is why I think it would be different this year which is why I think Mitch Marner will very likely not be back here and I think you know they might be okay with the fact he forced his hand now Hayes might be upset because they didn't force Mitch's hand saying, listen, we're just not having you back, as opposed to trying to sign him in February and then being, you know, whatever happened there.

But I think for, yeah, so I think for the whole group, run it back, probably not ideal and I don't think anyone wants that. But I think maybe for Tavaro specifically, given the contract and everything else, that does seem more feasible. And I don't know if just bringing not Mitch back is enough of a culture change. I think it might be though. Like I do think it's pretty significant what he was in that room and what he was in this market. It would change the dynamic pretty significantly, not because Mitch is a bad guy. I'm not saying that, but just because it's going to be really, really different. and you can get an eight million dollar player and a

five million dollar player for him that can be completely different kinds of players you get Brad Marsh and Sam Bennett for that same 13 and a half you're gonna give Mitch if you could that would be enough with one of the two departing to make your team different yeah and you know what this might be a moot point where Mitch Marner has made up his decision and is leaving. Like, you know, regardless if you want to keep him or not, he has the right to walk on July 1st. And if they do get John Tavares on a value contract

and Mitch walks, the team does look different. There's no core four anymore. It's the core two and John Tavares, who, like you mentioned, is on a value contract.thew nine is the head of don't have our uh... agreed agree and in here's the other thing this is what i i think we might have to get away from i think the crop of the unrestricted free agents is not as deep as we would want it

no so that now you start getting creative and looking at trades. Exactly. Like I'm looking at again, this is wishlist. It's Nazem Kadri, but maybe it's Braden Shen. Maybe it's something like that. Maybe, you know, you're looking, you're calling Doug Armstrong and saying, what are you doing with your organization?

You might be looking to get younger. Like that's the type of stuff you get creative. Again, do you have the currency? Well, you need your own pick you need to offer like that I agree I I think you need to be creative but this is where Johnny and I'm going to put it back to you this is where Brad tree-living if he doesn't have Brendan

Shanahan's vision if they weren't aligned going into last season now it's Brendan Shanahan show I'm sorry it's Brad tree-living show and he can go if he wanted to move off Mitch Marner last year or if he wanted to get creative but he couldn't do that because his hands were tied behind his back because you got to run it up the chain if he has the keys to the kingdom Brad tree-living will build the team that he wants and he might have that flexibility just because Mitch Marner walks and

And now you start to get creative and that's where it'll be interesting to see what he does with all of that Yep. Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean and talking just for offer sheets. What was doing always contract? Is it like two eight? That's like a second and a third you go find a guy like that for your second and a third, you can do some things. So you're right, Noodles, if they weren't in complete alignment and Plus Tree was new enough that he's like, I guess, do I know enough about this group to decide definitively that it's not a good idea? But now he knows, and now it's going to happen regardless. So yeah, I think that's the road they go down.

The only other thing guys, I want to pull you guys. Oh, you're the general manager of the Toronto may please Mitch. Martin is like, I'm not signing back, but I want to sign and trade. You, you get me eight years. You trade me to Utah and you get a third rounder. Like what is, what is the return for sign a trade? Like a third rounder or prospect? Like nothing really great.

Do you do that? No, I don't Well, no, I I would do it because you know what? Let's get creative. What if that trade is to Vegas and Vegas has a dumb salary Well for Mark Stone exactly like you start looking at exactly so it's not just a Seventh rounder, you know Joe from the bridge jokes. It's a 12th rounder. It's right. You got to take some salary, but that might be a good $5 million player that you could bring back.

Like something like that. As you talk about Browning. You get William Carlson out of Vegas for $5 million, who is a really good player. That's what I'm talking about. I'm saying you start to get creative and go, you want this player? I'll give him eight years at whatever you're willing to pay. But I want that player in return because you're going to to dumps out you're throwing guys overboard anyway, right? That's where you get creative. See you guys. It's all about creativity. It's just not about yelling

It's not like the oranges situation in Whitby where you just have to like be a jerk We're talking this thing through. I like it. i think we've established a lot of p as a relationship guys work as a every as patient as the business but i think we've accomplished that this hour

and other uh... side and trade to vegas for william carlson that's gonna be the highlight of this hour we've got some i've heard way worse idea to start the interview so not so bad. Yes. Good conclusion. Valid, valid. You know what though, truthfully I wonder if Vegas would also look at Mitch and any player for that matter, not just Marner, and say we're Vegas we don't really need to give you an 18. Like if you want to come here you can come here but it'll be on our terms. You know like that that is one thing I am curious about like the Leafs have done everything to make all these players feel so great They've given in on everything there may be a reality out there where some teams are like, oh, we're not doing that

Run for a couple years. So what if it's a wonder whether or the What if it's eight at ten heads load around here man That cap it goes if it's a ten heads was a load around here yeah i will explode that cap it goes backwards it will be wild it wild wild the very tiny are back home or what are you i'm not going to back in toronto now i'm back in toronto now it's like eleven o'clock i'm ready to go to bed right will catch up later in the week we'll talk about i've got a couple else next time we talk to you

i'll be good at it there's mike johnson tsn hockey analyst up later in the week. We'll talk about the Stanley Cup Playoffs next time we talk to you. Yeah. I'm kidding, guys. There's Mike Johnson, our TSN hockey analyst joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. New. Nostalgic. Unmistakably Canadian. Main in Canada delivers 100% homegrown hits. All day, every day.

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