OverDrive - Johnson on the Maple Leafs' playoff failure, the possible team revamp and Marner's future in Toronto

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the Maple Leafs' elimination against the Panthers, the failure performance in Game 7, Mitch Marner's future and his potential team, the impending conclusion of the Core Four, the possible revamp of the team moving forward and more.

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official partners Air Canada and MasterCard. Tickets at Cirque du Soleil.com. Here's Mike Johnson, our TSN hockey analyst. Look at you calling the Oilers. Well, I appreciate that Noodle's bring that back to be fair. I didn't call them to win at the start of the playoffs, but at the start of the regular season I did. So I flip flopped around. But yeah, I mean, I guess we're not surprised that we end ourselves here. I mean, anyone, I don't think the betting line, I don't think Toronto was the favorite. I don't think Winni that we end ourselves here. I mean anyone I don't think the betting line

I don't think Toronto was the favorite. I don't think Winnipeg was a favorite I do think everything was a favorite. So We probably shouldn't be surprised that we find ourselves here. I guess not how surprised How surprised were you to witness that the other night that type of ass-kicking? I Was surprised noodles I was surprised, Nudel. I was. I mean, after game five, you thought, okay, well, that was clearly the moment, but then they responded with game six, and you're thinking it's going to be okay because they've worked

through whatever. And at some point, you know, home ice is supposed to be an advantage. It's supposed to help you, not hinder you. And to lose, and I said this to you guys the day of the game, to lose it's going to be, you know, you can do a lot of things right and still lose. That's the nature of the sport. But to lose the way they did, that I did not see coming. That is what is particularly alarming. When Craig Barube says, it's in their head, I think he's saying what we all sort of think.

Like at this point, it's in their head that they can't themselves was fought in a clutch pressure game to play their best hockey. And then it looks like that. And they're playing a really good team and they get pounded. It's like it's tough. And I would get it turned nasty, the booing, the jerseys and all of it, but that's not a one year frustration. I think people kind of forget that it's seven, eight, nine years building, especially when it's going to be directed to the guys who've been here for all that time.

That does make it a little bit different. It's not just one bad game or two bad games. It's sort of, this has happened five, five six seven times now in these kind of games. So if Mike Johnson is the GM and you're sitting in a room and someone says what are you gonna do to fix this roster wise what is your game plan? Well the challenge oh that I is that I don't know how good I can make my team with just money. This is my challenge. I can take Tavares at 11 and Marner's 11,

take that 22 and certainly Matthew Nye's gonna eat up seven or eight of it, but take it and spend it on other players that are available as free agents. But I don't know if I'm gonna be any better off big picture, maybe Sam Bennett maybe Aaron Echoled they're fresh maybe Brad Marsh and they're all four to pander a little bit want to come to Toronto I don't think we do that but I would I would think that Mitch Marner is going to go and maybe Tabarra comes back and be rep

definitely would be on my terms you know that's appropriate amount what is that you know the dynamic Mitch Marner coming back in your terms. You would actually- No, Taveras, Taveras. Marner's gone. Taveras back in my terms. Taveras is three years and four and a half million dollars a year. Okay.

Would you be, let's say Mitch asked GM Mike Johnson, said, I want to stay. Let's work a deal out. What's your response? Oh, I... Ha ha ha. What do you got for us? let's work a deal out what's your response all uh... uh... he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he Mitch Maher to come back, you know, but I need another centerman and I'd have to change the dynamic. I'd have to explore other trades.

Can Morgan Rielly be persuaded to go? So I'd have to explore other things to accommodate that because I can't have the same feeling of a team come back and not just removing Tavares perhaps. And I say this, make no mistake, all these players are incredible. They're super talented, they can go other places and winning. But I think what we've learned is that the collection of players together in Toronto

is not going to win. So I need to change that. So if Mara wants to come back and it's not a crazy number, then I'll have to look at it, but I have to look at other ways to change my roster sort of drastically. Yeah, I don't know if you can accomplish that though if he comes back. I don't know if I can.

I don't think you can. I don't know if I can. That's very clear now. It's not, you know, it's not about the third line anymore. Like, I get it. All those things are important, but you've got to start at the top. And if you're going to come, if you're going to have Austin and Willie and Mitch just keep riding this out, man, I'm sorry. I I just don't I don't know how you can

expect different results. But like so but if Mitch Marner says okay I want to come back and I mean he will never do this but he said I want to make 11 million dollars. At that amount of money you're not gonna find a good enough player to replace him. This is the dilemma. Do you have to get worse talent-wise, skill-wise, to have a better chance of winning in the playoffs? You might have to.

And that's hard for me to stomach. You know what? I'm going to get worse. I'm going to more less talented players fewer chances you know what but i don't know which marter but because i believe that in the playoffs somehow that that makes we more capable

but i think you don't need the l a kings are a great example of the right the l a kings are a great example of that they had to grind to get in every year but when they got in they were unbeatable. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, you need a team that's going to be good enough to make the playoffs. And then hopefully better once you get there. Well, and you know what you're saying, I agree, if you're looking at one for one, but maybe it's a scenario where if you're looking at Mitch Marner not

being on your roster and you're looking to replace him, you don't replace him with one player, maybe it's multiple players because you use that cap space to add to your depth so that you're not having to worry about, jeez, is it Pontus Holmberg or David Camp? We got to slide onto that left side because we don't have, like that's the biggest challenge is maybe you look at your roster as a more balanced. Yes, in a vacuum, that one spot is the player that you put in there is less talented, but maybe the talent gets spread out over a nine spot or the 12 forwards that you do have. You know, that's if there's no balance to it correct

no question that i'm not you're not going to let marter go and go get a twelve million dollar player there is no twelve million dollar player out there to get that's a free agent you have to trade for some are which is they don't have the assets to do that so uh... totally new to take that twenty million dollars from to bars and and and marter and put it to at least three maybe four players that are different that maybe collectively can help replace most of what Mitch Marner does in the regular season.

And then maybe more than what he has done in the playoffs. The challenge is though, if you, let's say we go down that road, okay, you guys are all my assistant GMs. Good job. We're going to go down the no Marner road. We're going to go down that road, okay? You guys are all my assistant GMs, good job. We're gonna go down the no-marner road. We're gonna go down, tomorrow we're gonna leave the secondary decisions. We're gonna spend that money on other people. Like, Sam Bennett obviously,

is gonna be an attractive player. I don't think he's ever had 50 points in a year. Maybe it doesn't matter. You and my assistant GMs, are we okay giving Sam Bennett eight or nine million dollars a year? Yes. For eight years, for 50 points? 14 goals, 18 goals, 24 goals?

Are we okay with that, for what he does in the playoffs? And that's, he might be one guy. Are you, and then, who else is out there? Mikhail Grandin, Matt Duchesne. The UFAs are not a deep group. Right. Let alone ones that would want to come to Toronto. So this is the problem. We can just go down that road, but where are we going to go? Where are we going to end up? Johnny, you know the only avenue to make changes is not just UFA class. Like,

everybody knows how to get creative and make things happen. There's always players out there. Also, the league doesn't end next year. Right. Like if you commit to Mitch for eight, that's eight years you're committed. So maybe you don't get everyone this summer. Maybe it's a combination of this summer and next summer. Go take a look at who could be available next summer. It might peak your interest. Oh, yeah. My interest. Yeah. Interesting. I can save my counter. And I would go anywhere

that's the size one of them but there's a lot of guys capri sob next to there's a lot of god here you know i have anyway my that's the truth i want to say it's a great class potentially next i would want to the float this to you guys if you're if you want three there was three there's three potential unrestricted for agents on florida sitting there that probably

the least would covet all three act blad Brad Marchand and Sam Benning and Jamie maybe that was part of Brad's Craziness where he's like I want to play this cool and praise the city because maybe those niff Well, he's pitching the idea coming here. I was a leaf fan growing up with her. I don't know that and the idea of coming here. He was a Leaf fan growing up apparently. I never knew that. Never said that once in his life. I think he's going back to Boston. But here's my question to the whole panel. You think they're sitting there and seeing how unbelievable, like it was a circus there the other night. Hayes, you were in the building. And they see how this series went in that and go, is

there any chance that a free agent would be, say no bueno to that market because of this? Yes, for sure. You think so? 100%, there are a lot and lots of, all things being equal. So like, you know, if I could sign in Tampa for seven million or Toronto for nine, okay, that's not the same.

But if it's gonna be put me in Tampa for seven or Toronto for seven and I think the chance the winner about the same, I think even though I disagree with so much of the narrative that's been out there the last two days about how pressure-packed Toronto is and how hard the media is and how hard the attention is, I don't buy that for a second. But you know how the NHL is once the reputation sort of gets out there and people start talking about these things, they tend to feed themselves. So I think there would be a whole bunch of guys that would prefer to not be in that sort of environment. Absolutely,

not because they don't like Toronto, I just thought they don't like maybe the degree of the attention they may receive here if it doesn't go well. Yeah, well, and that's part of Toronto's reality. Yeah, and what they're really saying is it's not, they're not even focusing as much as on how hard it is here. What they're highlighting is how easy it is somewhere else. That's what they're really saying. It's so easy everywhere else because nobody knows me and nobody cares. It's hard here because they choke in big games all the time and they never win.

That's why it's hard. Exactly. Nothing, no one has brought that up. Right. If they had gone to runs and lost in Stanley Cup Finals, it wouldn't be this difficult. But they get opportunities and they choke and lose every single time. That's why it gets ugly. And that's why it gets uncomfortable. When you compare the start of the game, I was there, everyone was in their seat a half an hour before puck drop loaded crazy when they came onto the ice that place was as loud as I can remember and I was there when when the Raptors you know game five on that's

probably the loudest I've ever heard that building when they stormed past Golden State in game five they end up losing that game about three minutes left Kawhi hit a shot the place went insane. This was not far off. I'm not kidding. At the start of the game, it was as crazy and as loud as I can ever remember. The reaction was because the team played the way they played. If they were booing and throwing jerseys in warm-up, I'd be like, this is a circus. That's a circus. By the end of it, it's an accumulation of everything and everything that's played out. Let me ask you this, Johnny Johnny and we can all go around the table on this. Let's say the Panthers win the Stanley Cup. Does that soften the

blow of the Leafs lost? Does it change anything in retrospect? Let's say a month from now. No, because it's not that they lost, it's how they lost. Yes. They played great and laid on the line and we're right we're right there and it was two to one and she was so close then you're like, yeah We lost the best team that might change, you know Soften the sting but the loss is more about them and less about the opponent So no, I don't think it matters what Florida does this year I know the Leafs have lost to a team that has gone on to the stand like a final several years in a row I get it, but the way they lost this year,

I think sort of doesn't make that argument hold water. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. I totally agree with that. I think there are other times maybe you could look and say, oh it was tight and that they weren't ready or whatever. Yeah. Again, you're nine years into this and they're a veteran team. Like all their defensemen are 30 and up. Yeah. You know, like everyone, they got a cup team like all their defensemen are 30 and up yeah you know they got a cup winning coach behind the back I think they were the fourth oldest team in the league yes and office here no excuse for that type of like that's that's the other thing performance gets lost in all this this isn't a team now a lot of their guys are in their prime but John Johnny T will be

35 next year you know Matthews and Mna and other they're like twenty seven twenty eight dollars of veterans not you know this is going to your ten early twenties right so this isn't you know that's a scenario where you know i i believe now at some point johnny do you think that it's addition by subtraction whether it just

you know you use that money somewhere else to have it look different and it's not even as you get despite these players it's just it's time for service or all guilty like that's right it's not mourners faulted to vote for all of the lander was all good evening the awesome was awful new lander was awful again a lot of veteran other morgan wasn't any good right mccabe was terrible car Carlo was to wall was terrible but it doesn't matter but like that fourth goal was horrendous that couldn't go I was a backbreaker told me it just

scored the place is going nuts absolutely horrendous goal to give up Stolars was hurt there's a lot of different things right you look at it's it's not about the individual like one individual guy it never has been but the difference is these two guys there now you're faced but you have to ask them to do something uncomfortable you don't have to force them out to run them out of town and get out one of them well exactly mariner and that'll be interesting is

things move on if he walks in then ranting wins a guy i mean these guys when a team comes to you ask you to do that that that basically fractures the relationship between team and player don't you think yeah i i mean and my only over yeah they're back in the lead because they well now they would pitch it as because we don't think you want to come back if you wanted to come back we

wouldn't be asking you but they they value that other guy more than you in that moment and i would not feel very good. No. And I have no problem, hey as you're going down this road like Will Marner be disliked, I had no problem with him enforcing that. His wife was pregnant about to have a baby, he doesn't want to wave his no trade clause. Please, he earned that full no move, whatever he had in good faith. I would never hold that against him for not agreeing to waive, but oh, yeah, I don't want

to really be in a place where they don't want me. So that would be another factor in Marner's decision to want to go somewhere else. The thing that might keep him, the best chance to keep him is eight years. It's the eighth year. That's Toronto's best leverage point at this point and a factor there he's from here and they're good financially the eight years is what trial after all throughout but i'm with you know i think if someone asked me that i would

i would be sour about it and i would be more inclined to look at different options i would be game over i was game over as soon as i got word that i wanted like they want to move me out of carolina was like that's it like do it now i met with jim robert in kosher bank arena with my dad and i said please just do that quickly well then what do you expect to hear from tree living them when he speaks

like he will at some point yeah what is he kiss again we've referenced it a couple times johnny i don't know if you have to heard John Tavares' media, but John said, no, I just spoke with Tree and Barube and very optimistic I'll be back. Like- I saw that. Yeah, two days, like it took two days for them to evaluate,

yes, John's just staying. Like, will they be happy that he would even say that publicly? Like if I'm them, I'm like, can you just not speak? Like even if we're going to bring you back. Even if we've decided, let's pretend like we're evaluating something. Like pretend it's a tough decision, we're checking other options, we're turning over every stone and leaf, whatever. Yeah, I know. And I don't have a problem with him sort of

saying, I want to come back. Right, of course. Go for it. I mean, the people here might be refreshing, but to say that I'm very optimistic we spoke today I'm like today today's Tuesday oh yeah we got a day to go we're working it out here we got it all figured out it's a wild wild scene yet I I'm sure he's saying telling the truth I would assume he's telling the truth yeah sure something said in those conversations though if they happen right away where it's like you maybe don't want to get to the truth where it's like this is just not happening you know out of respect to the

player like you know I'm gonna look at maybe this gets done over that gets done and then the guy walks out of the room and it's like delete the number yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's. I mean I don't I don't like tree to say much like what like Expresses disappointment he'd express his belief in most of the players He would acknowledge that change is coming and he's gonna work through to make do everything he can to make the team better Like I don't know like like, you know all police shave bill Like I don't think he's gonna come say we're not Mitch walk because we can't we we're not doing this again People might want to hear it. I don't believe he's gonna say it. I don't think you's gonna come and say, we're gonna let Mitch walk, because we're not doing this again. People might wanna hear it,

I don't believe he's gonna say it. I don't think he'll say, you know, tomorrow we got a deal done, he's coming back, we're happy to have him. Like, I just, it'll be way more cryptic in general and cliche, and I would be surprised if it was anything but. Yeah, and-

Now, if he was being honest, if he was being honest, that would be, if he was being honest and just said, if that would be if he's being honest and just said If he's willing to be in and just acknowledge You know what we're gonna make changes to our most important players because we love them all they're all excellent But together it's not working and so we're not gonna keep them together. Mm-hmm. I would be maybe it does both Honestly, that's what he should say if he's gonna do it like you won't commit Yeah, and and again, this is if they're going to do that

There's no guarantees. They will they may not change they may buy back into the core four thing They might but if you're going to do it, Tony, don't even just stop. I understand You know what? I get I don't want to hear it say that after year nine there They might keep the food literally by the way i am all season i am so sick of the term core for exit this kid it's the worst the quiz master came up with it and i honestly i'll not i'm mad at him for it may have used that acquittal answer invented that he did he did

i swear he got it i don't know who did but i'll give you did i remember because it started with the leaves and then it was like who has the best core four in the league and then it was like this big core for the quiz master and craig button did around the way you write they did yes and then it just became a four or four hundred twenty four that's more of a little bit of a sore is responsible for the cause the door and people who know that this is not as is called all of that let's run by

much more like how come other teams is not core for a commitment and it's not door. I could go on all day. This is Quizmas fault. All of that. Yeah, let's rhyme as much as we can. Like how come other teams it's not core four? How come in Edmonton it's not the core two? It's just so stupid the core four. The core four era. I agree with you. Yeah, to finish my thought on if Tree Living is committed to like we're moving off them, he should say it. He should actually allow the fans to breathe. Yes, just say we got a different direction. We're not doing this anymore We got to attack. I'm telling you today. We're gonna have a different Yes, because and I'm not saying he will but he should he should because I do think the PR game and the messaging down There has it's it's gotten out of control with how tight-lipped they are how careful they are and I've said this for years

But and this again gets back to the pressure in the market the market can be played like a fiddle it's I've lived here my whole life it's so easy to play this market Austin Matthews do you know how much people would have loved him to come out today and say before we start I want to address Matthew Kachuk's comments Brad Marsh's comments and Paul Maurice's got shut up you're not from here you don't know what you're talking about. It's the best hockey market in the world. I love it and we're going to win. He dropped the mic and left, people would be like, God, I love this guy. This guy is the greatest. It would have been so easy. Can't do it. Won't do it. And I think it's not in his nature, but I also think the PR team is like, don't

say anything. Again, that's just the way they want their operation. Why would a PR person say don't say anything? That is honestly like just hand a they want our persons they don't say that that is honestly like just hand a piece of paper and say you say that and walk it would have been easier on the easiest thing literally you the night before send them the script and say memorize this thing go and say it and this whole market will throw rose petals at your feet as you go to the airport and fly to Scottsdale people will love you for it would have been so easy And I would say the same thing for Brad tree-living if you if you come out on whenever you're gonna come out and just say I'm telling you right now. I'm making this promise to the team

To the fans we're changing it and all we care about is winning because it's a very thin line Johnny here like this isn't scorched earth and going from 58 points to a cop They're in the second round in game seven it's just the next level but they just they can't you know they've been stuck here for five or six years and it's just it's hyper focused and you gotta do something tough to get to that next level but

you gotta have the stomach for it and i think if you announce it people would be would find a very refreshing i don't think you have any pushback from anybody if you announce anything along those lines and also and also I would might Be Brad Shear living now He's not a player, but this were Matthews dispelling the notion that it's hard to play here Yeah, thank you I would I think fans take a little bit of offense to that because their passion somehow makes it hard to play here. If you came out and said, not only what you just said, but I don't want to hear about pressure.

Pressure, we love it here. We love the fans. We love playing here. I wouldn't want to go anywhere else. I don't want to play some place where, and I say this firsthand, okay, I played in Toronto for whatever, three or four years. I got traded to Tampa. I got traded to Arizona, played there for like seven years.

When I got traded back to Montreal, and I to Arizona, played there for like seven years. When I got traded back to Montreal, and I loved Arizona, my best years were there, my kids were there, like I was, I loved playing there. I was so happy to go to a market that was more invested in hockey. I loved it, I loved the idea of people caring about what you do, and putting out that kind of message as well from the organization and from your best players

would be I think a pretty positive thing to do. I agree don't don't let your fans take the heat because they're they're too crazy and too passionate. They're not stopping anything. Yes, go and fight for your market, fight for your fans. Absolutely. All right Johnny, good stuff buddy. We'll do it again later in the week. All right guys Have a good day. You got it. There's Mike Johnson, TSN hockey analyst joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. Drive the built-in Canada fuel-efficient fun to drive Toyota RAV4. Gas or hybrid models available days at All Your Friends Fest. Presented by Play Ojo Casino, empowered by iHeartRadio. It's going down June 28th and 29th at Burles Creek with Avril Lavigne. Rise Against, Simple Plan, Under Oath, The Veronica's and more. Camping, parking and limited tickets at AllYourFriendsFestival.com Don't miss the party your teenage self always dreamed of.