OverDrive - Johnson on the Maple Leafs' underwhelming start, Nylander's struggles and Cowan's debut on the team

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the Maple Leafs' impressions through their decent start, William Nylander's apparent struggles and how John Tavares needs to contribute, Easton Cowan's performance on the first line, Lane Hutson's contract extension and the deal for the team, Brady Tkachuk's injury impact and more.

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joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline, live from the rink that is covered with a roof tonight. Here's Mike Johnson, our TSN hockey analyst. What's happening, Johnny? What's going on, boys, from my office here between the benches. I thought you'd, you know, come on in and hang out for the next few hours. I love it. I love it. So what's a mood like down there with the Leafies, three games in, where they're one and two,

and they didn't play great opening night, but they found a way to get two points. What are you picking up on being around the team? I think there's a little unease with the reality that is obviously very early and drawing any massive conclusions is premature, to say the least. But the acknowledgement that they haven't played that well and preseason or the games in the, like last game, yesterday they played well. They outshot them by a ton. They had the puck a lot. It wasn't perfect, but it was a good game. But pretty much part of that, it hasn't really been a good game.

So I think they're still looking to find whatever their version of their best game is and how that operates and what the lines will be and stylistically, power play, all these different things. And I think there, no one's talked about it, guys. But the idea that no one wants to talk about Mitch Marter anymore, totally fair. I get it. You got to move on. Like, forget it.

But if they're not scoring, the power play's not going. And your top goal score is not scoring. They got who plays with them usually, then like, it's sort of going to, creep up and they like to get a win, play well, have those guys score, and put all that stuff behind them again and get moving forward. So it's like, it's a bit of unease because they know they haven't been great. Johnny, you just said stylistically, what do you think they're going to morph into when they get cooking as far as beating you? That's what, there's so many things missing and it's like every game, there's a different part missing. You don't know what it looks

like when it comes together when it does. How is it stylistically going to look when they overwhelmed teams if they can get to that. Well, see, overwhelm might be a little optimistic. I think just maybe try to carry the play 50-50 at this point is something more likely, yo. I think it's going to be sort of a more grindy kind of team, more board play,

dumping it in, retrievals, four checks, secondary possessions, points to the net, crash bang, get it back, do it again, wear them down. I think that's what Craig Barubei wants to see. I don't know if this team's personality or maybe even personnel is wired to play that way. But I think that's what they're trying to get to. But it hasn't been that way really for the start of the year and through most training cap.

But they haven't found that. They've been not good in their own end. They've given up tons and tons of chances. And they've got to clean that up. But they haven't generated a whole bunch either. And their best players haven't been great. Like you look around the league. Look at the top scores of the league.

All the best players. It's McKinnon. It's Eichol. It's Capriza. It's all the best guys. And if you're going to have best guys on your team, they have to be really consistent in their production. And so far for Toronto, it hasn't quite happened.

Johnny, speaking to best guys, what do you make of, you know, Chief's comments about William Neelander? And, you know, what do you think he needs to do to be a little bit more effective? Not surprising. These two have a honest relationship and a good one. And Craig Brubay is not afraid to tell William Nealander both privately or on the bench. or in the media, exactly what he thinks of his game. Now he doesn't, you know, come across overly negative,

but he makes it known that he's not happy, and he's not happy, nor should he be. William Leander hasn't played well. He's got three shots and three games. And I know he has four points, but that is misleading. He hasn't played two of them on empty nets. He hasn't played like he can, like he has to. What's he got to do? He's got to skate to go get the puck.

He's got a skate to get in position to retrieve it. He's got a skate to get it back. And when he moves, we've seen it. You can't get it off him. once he has it, but you've got to work to get it in spots that you want to go to work with, and that's what Craig Barouba is talking about. Well, that's got to be the frustrating part, Johnny, is that Craig Barouba, as many conversations as these guys have had, it goes back to the same one.

If you're not skating and working, you're not doing your job and you're not effective. Sooner or later, he's got to be like, I can't keep having this conversation with you. What do you do, though? You know, what's the alternative? I guess you could sit him. you can take his ice away, you take him off the power play. I think William Nealander, in the way that he plays and occasionally sort of drifts in and out of maximum sort of intensity, not care, but intensity.

That, I feel, is going to be part of his reality for the entire time here. I don't know if that's ever going to change. That's just who he is. So I'm not sure. I think you've got to poke and prod and beg and plead and cajole to try to get him to do what you want him to do because you know what he does, he's one of the best players in the world. Well, and he's so connected to John. on Tavares as well.

And I think it's more, it's more lopsided. Like, JT has not looked great, right? He hasn't contributed a lot. He hasn't, he hasn't, it doesn't seem to have the puck a lot through three games. And I think he needs Willie. Like, he needs Willie to open up lanes for him and create and give him a couple freebies around the, around the net. And again, John's going to be here for a long time now.

And he's still a very good player. But if he's, if the two of them are going to play predominantly together for the next three or four years, the onus is going to swing even more towards Willie. Like, it's not going to balance out. It's going to, like... You've got to drive things. Yes. Like, that's kind of the plan here.

It's like Austin will do his thing on the first line. You've got to do your thing on the second. You have to. You're right. MJ, I'll let you jump in, but don't you think at some point in John's contract, the second line center shouldn't be there on his job description? I think

you're right. But this year, It likely will be. Yes, but I'm saying, like, John's going to get his game going. But MJ you weigh in. But, like, it's, you know, I think you're going to ask, like, he's going to be 35, 36, 37, like it's, Father, time catches you, right? Eventually, he'll get slid down. He should be.

And if he's not the third line center by time, he's 37, 38, that leaves you're in trouble, right? Right. But Hayes, that is a, that's absolutely right. Willie has to drive that line. He's got to be the transporter. And I think it's Machelli going there tonight, although they do. jumble the lines quite a bit. Machelli, while Crafty, is not a super speedy

transporter either. He's sort of a guy finds space and makes place. So the guy who's got to get it, advance it, get it in the offensive zone, get things going so his other talented linemates can do what they do well, is William Neelander. And I would expect him to have a good game. The thing

about Willie is that generally speaking, when he's challenged, he doesn't pout, doesn't get upset, he just goes out there and plays well and tells everyone to leave me alone. So I would expect to be pretty good in this game. So Easton Cowan goes Healthy Scratch Healthy Scratch Top Line Right

I didn't see that one coming personally What do you make of that logic And how do you think he looked And what would you expect You know How long do you think the leash will be With Matthews and Knives? So I mean

You'd like to say You're putting a guy in a position to be successful Right? That's what they always say about young guys Don't play him on the fourth line If he's got to be a first line player But that's not really the case of this situation I think it's more of a function of

the other guys, they were taking runs there, Machelli or McMahon or Max or whoever, it wasn't quite working so there was an opportunity with an injury to put a guy in there. We know about the issues that set him in depth with Scotty Lawton out. So, I thought he was good.

Like, you know, I made plays. Now, he played the game against Detroit where Detroit was dominated. So, yes, I see shots were 10-0 Toronto with that line on the ice together, and then scoring chats were 9 to nothing and attempts were 18 to 5. I get all that stuff. Now, you got to be productive, and you got to be able to do it every game.

Tonight will be a better test days, I think, and you guys could talk about it, oh, positional player. Like your first game, it is all adrenaline, right? It is all energy and emotion and the London Knights and his parents and everyone's there to see them. Now, game two is the next day. It comes out you quick. Like, you've got to have the same juice, the same play, and better to stay on that line, because if they don't score,

Matthew Nyes is not going anywhere. And Austin, Matthews is not going anywhere. The guy who's going to get swapped out would be Easton Cowan. So we'll see what he does there. But for one game, he was pretty good. I'm leery of looking to a rookie to ignite that line. Like that shouldn't be his responsibility.

He's trying to fit in. Those guys should ignite themselves. But, yeah, we'll see how he does today. He looks smart and capable. And we'll see if he can do it again and maybe be a bit more productive and actually producing points. I think he's going to realize that you just said producing points.

Johnny, that's what it's all about. It comes down to because I heard him talking after the game. He said, I felt pretty good. I got some chances. It's going to come down to production from him and the superstar he's playing with. And I think the one thing he needs to feel or see happen is, and I live this, when things get tense and the coach feels like he really needs a goal, he pulls you off the line and he puts somebody else out there.

That's when he understands that maybe he's not a guy for that job or the power play goes out there and your two linemates are on the power play and you're not. You feel, should I even really be there? I played with Brendan Shanahan and Nelson Emerson. Shanney had 45 goals. Nelson Emerson had 30 and I had like nine points. It was a weird dynamic where they were producing at all different facets of the game. And I was like, I'm a bad feeling.

It is. It's like I'm just a filler five on five once in a while. I got to play defense in my own zone. I got to try to set them up for goals. Come power play, you're gone. Critical situations, you're gone. And it's weird to look at the statute at the end of the season. I got 10 points.

Yeah. And they got 44 goals. goals in 30. How is that possible? It seems impossible almost. But I think what you're saying is he needs Matthews to score tonight. You get an assist off of that. Even if his

feet just hit the ice like he's on a chain. He has plus one. He's on the ice in the goals like in the scrum. Exactly. He needs Matthews to get cooking so that that line can possibly have some mojo. He can remain a part of it tonight.

It's got to be one of those ones where you know when you make a change guys and then like when the team scores the guy who just stepped on the ice immediately retreats to the bench to give the guy who made the change the plus. Cowan's going right in the pile. I'm not coming off for anyone. I'm in. I'm part of this one. This is me

although he was on the ice at the end of the game right? Six on five which oh to your point. That was good for him. He was given that kind of service. So again and that I don't know that says as much about his game or maybe just the other sort of offensive minded players are not really cooking.

just yet. So they've got to go on that direction. But I don't know. I've watched them play all the games they've played guys and they just, they're not particularly organized just yet. They're not that sharp. Give up a lot of chances, a lot of zone play. Stolar's has been

pretty good. Won't love maybe one of the goals last game, but they just have been given up too much. They can't play on their own end that much. So if the strength of this team is goaltending defense, the same six guys that were a top 10 team defensively last year, they got to clean that up. That would then allow them to have the puck more, maybe

go score a little bit more. So Lane Hudson signs an eight-year extension which will kick in next year. Oh, boy. Yeah, I know. It's a good cap hit. Good number. Team friendly. Here we go. We don't have to go down that road again. I thought of it. Hey, he's real quick. Go ahead. Real quick, though. This is my

rebuttal, though, not to you per se. Yeah. So let's just say, for argument's sake, he left 10% on the table. He could have got 10, he took 9. Let's just say, roughly. Yeah. Yep. So if this is the atmosphere and the culture they're fostering, I saw that Kent Hughes and Jeff Gorton just signed five-year extensions. Do you think they left 10% on the table so they could hire another pro scout

or the sports science group could have a little bit more to doctor a better meals? I'm just saying if that's the atmosphere we're going with, I understand noodles. I got it, but it's not about the numbers. It's about the philosophy. It's about the spirit behind it, not about the actual numbers. Do you think they offered that up, Hayes? I probably not, but I don't know that.

I don't know for sure. Maybe they did. I don't know either. Maybe they did. Maybe it's possible they did. For $5 million each and all you can eat at St. Hugh Bear. That's possible too. And I would take it.

That would be nice. Extra gravy. 100%. Sure, the peas and the gravy. But they got their extension too. They're there for the next five years. And they didn't force them to do it. It was like, hey, you want it or not?

Well, and what was established by Hughes and Gordon was, everyone's got to sign eight years. Like, it would appear to me, Johnny, as if that was what they were emphasizing for. Like, we need all of you to sign, because they all did. Suzuki signed for eight. Slavkovsky, I believe, for eight.

Maybe it was seven, but I think it was eight. Cawfield was eight. Hudson's eight. Dobson got eight. And like that, to me, I get it. It's a gang, everything's a gamble. And as Lou Lamarillo would say, the second you sign it, like it's too much money, too long a term.

but that is more of the culture that sticks out to me and I think that's really, really wise and again it doesn't always have to come back here but Austin we can only do five and Mitch I'll do six and Willie if those guys all sign eight-year deals they'd still be on those contracts Willie'd still be making I believe like 6.8 for another year but none of them did it

and that's Dubas and Shanahan that screwed that up let me clarify that but the eight-year deal like I'd like it you're kind of locked in now but what do you make of this core in Montreal? I guess you could throw Demadov in. I don't know if Montembo's going to be there for eight years. I would doubt it, but as of now

he's their starter. Like you see them built... Cade and Gully? Exactly. Like, is this a burgeoning cup contending team? Like, is that where you see this going? How much more do they have to do in Montreal to get to that

level in your opinion? Not cup contending yet, but they're really good. And they're only going to get better. And what's different about the Lou Lamarillo philosophy now, Hayes, the second you sign a contract, now you're underpaid. With the cap going up, now you're underpaid. And that's why they're in a good spot because Suzuki's making what, seven, eight, five or something like that and Coffield just below him, he's grossly underpaid. So the next three, four, or five years, their top five, six players are going to be a million to five million dollars underpaid.

That adds up to 15, 18 million dollars total. Montreal can go to the cap. They have the financial resources to do it. And $18 million gets you a lot of good players in today's NHL. And maybe those one or two, three extra guys are enough to put them over the top when they finally get there. They're not there just yet. But they got this Cam Fallow or net's supposed to be unbelievable. They have a lot of pieces and a lot of runway where you sort of know, okay, this is what we have. This is what it's costing us. And it's not costing us relatively speaking that much. And we can work around the others. And they got Brendan Gallagher and Josh Anderson contracts coming off the books who haven't been, you know, maybe great.

valued for those deals. So they are positioned well. Now, to get to the next stage, Suzuki's a star, absolutely star player. He is that for sure. Lane Hudson is a star offensive defenseman. It's hard to win without a super, super duper star, right? Like, it's just hard to do. And do they have that? Is it Demitoff? Is it Suzuki? Is it Coffield? Is it Hudson? I'm not quite sure. And you can't really go to acquire those guys very easily because none of them leave their team. but that's what they need. Hays. Like one or two other impact players and if they get that, you look

at the East, you look at the Atlantic, you look where things are going. In two years, it would not be a stretch to say, oh, they may have the best roster in the division. Right. Well, that's the thing. Like, at some point Florida's going to get old. The Leafs are getting old. Like if this sets them up for eight years, exactly. Tampa Vasselowski will be done or

headman will be done. And you're almost thinking in two or three years, you're ready to pop in Montreal. And keep in mind what Johnny just said, the value of their contracts is going to leave some flexibility. They might be able to go big game hunting for a star unrestricted

free agency. If they ever get to free agency, yes. They do, but you might be able to grab somebody in free agency that could be a difference maker as well if you have that type of money because you've managed your money with your contracts. That's really good work, man. It's really good work

and you know you look at like when i read it hayes i the first guy i thought of after hudson i'm like good for him i'm like damn it hayes yeah he'd be smiling ear to hear everyone team guys taken less team guys just that go you're supposed to they want to win the worst you think the two management guys sign the extension johnny if they didn't get in last year like would that be happening today you think i think they've built a good program you're saying from much well i think they would have got it but maybe but maybe timing oh maybe they wait for him to get done whenever if he got done in march then the extensions get done in april maybe you're right but they're riding high right now in Montreal

they're riding high there hasn't been a lot gone wrong the last couple of years it's all optimism and positivity and even when they don't play great it's still look at our team look we're all signed up look at the value look how good we're going to be proofs in the pudding though like that'd be good on the ice and that's where it matters most absolutely Brady could chuck out

long term they're saying like it sounds like at least a month if he has surgery if I'm guessing that would be even longer than that like what does this what does this do to the psyche of that team. You talk about a guy who is the, like, the identity of a team. The heartbeat.

He's kind of like what Chara was to Boston forever, right? That's what Brady is in Ottawa. Yeah, in the room, on the bench, on the road, on the ice, it's all of it. It's massive, massive. And he's a unique player where he does

stuff that, you know, only a handful of guys that can do in the league that can score, play, and also be there to stick up for his teammates. It's brutal. And I, I thinking in case surgery, does that bleed into if it's two or three months, start thinking about the Olympics. I know his he would be thinking, I got to make the Olympic

team. One month is not a problem. Two or three becomes that. And Ottawa, as positive as many of us are about their team, you know, they're not so great that they can have a massive slump or lose a bunch of their best players and expect to make the playoffs. So it's going to be

tight with Brady Kachuk in the lineup. You take them out and what they might mean for a team that can't score that well to begin with is troubling. Other guys will have to step up. And Tim Stutzler is a guy that you watch and you're like these guys great, but sometimes he leaves

you wanting more. For the next month, he's got to be like the star player he can be in Brady's absence. Is that the guy for you, Noodle? Stutzla. I would look at Olmark and say there can't be any, I'm not feeling like he's got trying my best. Sure. Yeah, it's Stutzla for me.

I'm trying my best. And I think they're getting Batherson back, too, which is help. But, like, that's, you're right, Brady is such a unicorns. Like, there's him and what Tom Wilson are 35 goalscores that fight and do it all type of thing. Great leaders, all of that. But I just, I look at it, and it is going to have to be by committee, but you're right. I think it is Tim Stutzler that you circle and go, that's the guy who had 92 points as a 20-year-old. He's got to be a point of game or better.

That's the way I look. And their defense is pretty good, too. Like Sanderson, you've got to play 30 minutes tonight. But the goalie is the goalie, you know? Yeah. He's got to play well. Yeah. Man, that's a weird vibe to grab it out of the air and then tuck it between your legs

and throw it between your legs on the ice. That's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. There's been some weird goals, Johnny. I mean, I felt bad. I haven't talked to you about that. That's San Jose, that Alex Nadelcovich, it hurt my heart. It hurt my heart to watch that on the replay. that's that's tough sledding that's a tough one to shake off like you got to hit all your resources to get clear on that one and talk about ice time age talk about third how about our boy matthew schaefer oh 27 a game in new york he's the franchise already the wheels off that kid yeah it's he their best player he's three games in he's barely 18 years old to do they're best player i mean sarokin probably is and maybe matthew barzell but after those two i don't know he is he looks really good yeah he's very good and sorkman's not making saves right now so

So, I mean, they're going right through his crest somehow, right through the middle of his chest. I don't know how it happens. I know. Who scored? Was it Samberg or who scored the goal? No, Logan, Dick Logan Stanley. Yes, Logan Stanley. Right in the middle of like, right in the middle of his chest.

There's only goal in the year. It's one year. It's one year. Yeah. One year and they went right through him. Have you placed eyes on Alex Ovechkin at all? Like Ovi is motoring around. Someone ran into him the other night

Right in front of the net And I thought that guy was gonna go through the ice Was it Sizicus? Bounced off him Ran into him He went into the stands He is huge out there And they're off to a good start But I'm curious what we think is going to happen

With Ovi like he has been known to have Great starts And he's known to have slow starts Who knows what his summer was like After set breaking the record too I guess that's what I'm wondering I thought he looked good Hayes Okay

I'm not gonna lie to When I saw the obligatory soccer playing pitchers this summer from over in Russia, I thought he looked actually lighter than normal. Okay. Because he looks like when he gets up there, he gets like 250-ish. Yes. And it looked like he was more like 230-ish, which for him is probably appropriate. Okay.

I just think everything in Washington is going to be harder this year. Everything. Like the whole thing is just going to be harder. It's just not going to go as seamlessly as it has in last year. So does that mean 35 goals if he plays 80 games, which would still be incredible for a guy who's 40 years old? go through 900. Probably, that's what I would guess.

I don't know. Set the overrunner at 36 and a half? I don't know. What would you take? Yeah, that probably still makes sense. It's tough to bet against them. I mean, he's proven that year. He looks like he's enjoyed those subway and chips, I'll tell you that.

He just, yeah, he looks like, it could be his last tour, and it's like, let's just kind of ease into this. And they're off to a pretty good start in Washington. He's over, though. He gets around him. It doesn't matter. Yeah. He's going to set up shop in his office, and he's going to, he's going to score goals.

Yeah. But I am curious. it's like him and sid it's still like what is this going to look like the rest of the year yeah and Pittsburgh's been okay you know they've been okay it's not good they actually look pretty good I don't think it's going to matter in the end but they've been off to a decent start

all right Johnny well we'll catch you on TSN4 tonight the Preds in town coming off a win yesterday they've been winning at least racking up some points so goalie driven Soros has been ridiculously good he's not playing today we got a backup battle on and then and Caden Cremo making his debut for the Toronto Maple Leafs should be

an interesting one. All right. We'll catch you on TSN4 tonight. Thank you, Johnny. All right, boy. There he is. Ooh, quick cutoff. I like that. Joe from the bridge. You're out. Mike Johnson, joining us from the Maple Toyota Hotline. Get in and go where adventures take you in a new 2025 Tacoma from Maple Toyota near

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