OverDrive - Johnson on the Maple Leafs' winning run, Stolarz's injury impact and the Canadiens' offensive issues

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the latest around the NHL, the Maple Leafs' winning streak, Anthony Stolarz's injury status for the team, the Maple Leafs' scoring depth, John Tortorella's views on Matvei Michkov's Michigan goals, the Canadiens' roster issues and more.

It's a brand new year. Time to review last year's financial decisions and set new priorities for 2025. Kelvin the Money Guy suggests the three-step approach. One, clearly define your goals for the new year. Two, create a plan tailored to your needs and ambitions. And three, make sure your portfolio is designed to serve that plan. Goal. Plan. Portfolio. Contact Kelvin the Money Guy and set your plans in motion. Call 416-457-PLAN

or visit askkelvin.ca mike johnson joining us now on the maple toyota hotline what's going on johnny what's going on fellas it's interesting i hear you talking about it and you run the numbers and and you know maybe like I agree with you. Like, he should probably just turn it around because he's generating chances still. But I will say, this is ridiculous, I'd have to probably check the NHL edge stats. But by just the eye test, when you're down there, the shot seems to have been a little less zippy this year. Not just not finding the back of the net for Austin Matthews, but just a little less pop on his shot.

I wonder if the injury, whatever he was fighting, that he went to Europe for, was something that is still sort of maybe slowing down his release, maybe just velocity or just the time it takes to get it off or whatever. It's just a little bit. It's still elite,

but maybe not quite best in the world right now. Yeah. Well, it's, you know, the bottom line is, MJ, they've been winning without, you know, his electric performances. They certainly won with him out of the lineup, and they're doing a pretty good job of it with him in the lineup, even if he hasn't been Mr. 69 goal pace. But to switch topics to the one of the day, MJ,

do you believe that the Maple Leafs were sort of tempting fate by throwing Anthony Stolarz in net last night, a couple of nights after a very high workload occasion beating New Jersey? I mean, I understand the Monday morning quarterbacking about this decision. But what are you going to do? It was two days off. They just had two days off before that. Him and Wall have been sort of alternating game on, game off.

John, he's played six games. Six games in the last 30 days. I'm saying, it's nothing. So if you're attempting fate, and I get what you're saying, and perhaps you are right. The same thing would be said for Wall if he plays two games in a row. Anyone who has a history of not being entirely healthy will, if you play him two games in a row,

one game after a busy night that I guess you're attempting fate, I don't think that they were reckless, careless. As long as Stolarz was completely forthright and up front that he wasn't tight, that he wasn't tired, that he didn't have any sort of tweaky thing hanging on that he wanted to play anyways, as long as that was the case and he acted and told everyone he was 100% healthy, then no. I think it's

just reflective of he got hurt they should have done something different thinking. It was always going to be a story for both these guys. That's the reality. Neither one of them has played 50 games be a story for both these guys. That's the reality. Neither one of us played 50 games in a season, and both have had a history of injuries at times in their careers, and that was always going to be part of the story.

And we've seen Wolm miss time, and now we may see Stoller's miss a little bit of time. But I don't think you can get on the leaf from the decision they made to start him last night. In conversation with Mike Johnson, our TSN hockey analyst, obviously that was the big story last night, but the secondary story I thought was the play of Max Pacioretty and the line of Pacioretty, Tavares, and William Nylander. Why do you think it's worked out so well this season with Pacioretty?

Well, healthy, I guess, the injury aside. But when he's been playing, he's been fairly productive. He's been very physical. Just seems to be a perfect fit for Craig Berube's system. Well, I think there's a couple of different parts to it. One is, you're right, you said system. And Max Pacioretty, at his state and age of his career, is not a guy who wants to rip up and down trading rush chances.

His greatest strength is probably his strength and his size and his willingness to be a guy who goes and bangs bodies. Like, the guy who goes in there and hits and gets physical and runs over Jack Hughes. And we see him take penalties for boarding that were rescinded. He's got a mentality, even though he's been a scorer his whole life, that he wants to be the guy who goes in and is super physical get the puck back for his wingers i give him full credit it's not always easy to make

that transition when you haven't had to play that way throughout your career and then you got to give his line mates credit because largely speaking when you play him with matthews marner tamara's kneelander they do so much work to get the puck up the ice, to get the puck to the front of the net, to get the puck to the spots that Pacioretty can still be effective with. Like he's scoring goals from four feet out because other guys are getting the puck four feet out. So in that sense, it's been a good fit. And as long as he can stay healthy and as long as he plays those good players,

he'll chip in enough goals because he's got the brain and the hockey sense to get in the right spots frequently enough. Yeah, no, that's a fair point. I mean, when you look at that, you know, the physicality that Patrick Reddy brings, MJ, I mean, you're a big skill guy. I know you're an analytics guy. And you've occasionally cast dispersions at the value of sort of wanton hitting.

But this guy is on hits per 60. He's second on the team to ryan reeves i mean that's that's how frequently he's been out there you know searching out opponents to lay a body on i mean do you see a lot of value there like what are you seeing in terms of what his physicality is bringing to this team yeah sure and I mean, I'd like to think, you know, I appreciate the role that physicality can be playing, but I'm also aware that

I'd rather have the puck and not have to hit people than be chasing hits because I don't have it. And there's a danger where you fall in love with hitting stats because you never have the puck.

The reason why Detroit Red Wings never hit anyone in the 90s, not because they only had skill players, it's because they always had it. And you'd rather be that than the alternative. But when you are playing a system that asks you to dump it in, go for a check, turn pucks over, and try to grind out offensive chances, somebody has to go and hit

and stop the puck. And the fact of the matter is Max Pacioretty is good at it because he is a surprise. I've been around Max Pacioretty his entire career. I always thought of him as sort of like rangy and big, but not really big, big, if that makes sense. And you're around him now, and I stand there between the benches, and I'm like, the guy, he's big. He's 6'4". He's 220 pounds. He's a big, big player.

And the system plays a pivotal role because dumping it in does no good unless you can get it back. And one of the ways you have to get it back is by going to hit people. And he's figured that out, and he brings value because of it. Johnny, it looks like Bobby McMahon is scheduled to return this weekend. David Kemp not too far behind. What do you expect this bottom six to kind of look like when this team is fully healthy?

Well, this is the trick. So now I guess you're going to walk through it and it's going to be the top six will likely stay the same, right? The big four nice, makes a big five and then there's a swing person in that other spot. Could be Domi, could be McMahon

or it could be Pacioretty. Right now it's going to stay with Pacioretty. So now your third-line wingers will be McMahon and Max Domi with Fraser Minton, I suppose, and that turns your fourth line into Kemp when healthy, Loren Lorenz and whoever else. I don't mean whoever else dismissively, but sometimes Reeves, sometimes Dewar,

depending on the opponent, depending on what's going on, maybe it's Holmberg, whatever it might be. I think that's probably how it shakes out until they make a definitive decision on whether Fraser Minton can help them longterm. And I don't think that jury is still out. I don't think they've decided.

I think they appreciate the responsibility and mature nature of his game. And I know he's got, whatever, he's got his four points in his eight or nine games or whatever he's played. Underlines are not super strong for him. You know, the shot share hasn't been the greatest. The expected goal share hasn't been the greatest. Now, put him with different wingers, and you get

a better sense. Playing with Holmberg and whoever, Lorenz is not going to probably tilt the ice all the time. Playing with McMahon and Domi, you expect a little bit more. A little bit more push with the puck, and that's what they are still waiting to see.

And I think that's probably exactly how they shake it out and then there'll be moments where patch already slides down he plays on the third line mcmahon goes back up there or maybe max goes back up there really max plays in the middle like they'll fiddle with that stuff they have the big five forwards if i put knives on it somebody else and then the depth guys will play in the third line and the fourth line will be camp fl Lawrence, and somebody else. MJ, I wanted to get your take on the goings-on in Philly last night. The Flyers beat the Red Wings 4-1,

and Matt Veymichkov in a highlight reel play that nearly was a highlight reel play, probably still was played on the highlights, tried the Michigan, and this is how John Tortorella reacted in the aftermath of that. I've lost the battle, right? I don't think it should be in our game, but I've lost that battle. I have talked to him early in the year when he was doing it every time.

It was just turnovers. The thing I want Mies to understand is he's such a good player moving a puck and passing a puck. When he's behind the net he's dangerous to make plays. So what am I going to say? Don't do it? What I did I said you need to understand that there are other plays to be made there too because a number of the times he tried it early in the year, all they were were turnovers. So, yeah, I've lost the damn battle with that. I'm not going to try to fight it. I don't come off what I feel about it.

I don't think it should be in our game, but it is what it is. Where are you on that one, MJ? Okay, so I'm going to have to parch my old coach's words carefully here. I can actually appreciate what he's saying and that he's right, is that if you do it haphazardly, it can be a turnover, and that's something that they want to avoid. That makes sense

to me. There's a time and place to attempt that move, and it's not every single time. I agree with that. I've lost that battle. Okay. I appreciate that because I think new, you know, when you're older, whether you're older, like me or older, like torts, you know, younger players, younger people have different ideas and thoughts about the way things should be. And you have to adapt with it. If you want to stay relevant with those people that

you're working with. So that's probably not a bad idea, but it's's like several things whether you can have your phone on the plane it's probably a battle torts wanted to fight at one point he's lost that battle because that's not the world i'm okay with that too the idea the comment that this should not be my game is so preposterously dinosaur-esque i don't even know where to begin i I guess, did you see Barkov in the shootout the other day? He went to fake through the legs and then went back to his back end and scored. Yeah. Could that not be part of the game? Should we outlaw that?

Like, what are we talking about? The Forsbergs get done mid-game? Should we outlaw that? How about we outlaw the saucer pass? How about we outlaw the forward pass? Like, what are we talking about here? Like, this is hockey. This is skill.

This is not trick plays anymore. And he knows this because these players have grown up doing these things. It's not, you know, something that they're doing for being fancy. It's not something they can't do every single time. They can do all these different things all the time. We see Matthew Kachuk score goals through his leg all the time. Would John Tortorella tell him, no, that should not be part of our game?

That's ridiculous. The other stuff, actually, he has a point. He has a point about time and place and recognizing when you should maybe try some of these things. But to suggest that they should not even be part of the game? And Torts is a good coach. And Torts is a good man. Yeah, for sure. That is a line of thinking Torts is a good man Yeah for sure That is a line of thinking that

I think almost plagues hockey in general Not just from Torts but this whole clinging to the past And the change and the modernization And the fun and the creativity That should all be embraced Not sort of downplayed And dismissed Well the only thing about the Michigan MJ

And we were talking about this at the rink the other day and a couple of the Leafs were chiming in, is that it's not working very often. Right. Well, how often do you score goals from behind the net? Period. Well, no. Well, yeah, that's an interesting point.

Relative to what? Relative to a bump past the point in the slapper? Well, I guess the other point is that Talbot on that play, can't Talbot really got the shoulder up. He basically cut it off. Like, the goalies are wise to it now, you know? Goalies are wise to it. Guys leave with their sticks high up in the air now.

They're not sort of frozen with their stick on the ice because they've never seen this before. Yeah, and then they'll do something different because they'll go with – I've seen junior kids and college kids and, like, you know, high school-aged kids run fake Michigans and wraparounds and fake Michigans to passes. There are extensions to what we're talking about, and that's where the world is headed. So yeah, you don't do anything that doesn't work, fancy or plain, but that's part of the evolution of the game. To suggest that anything that's creative, that looks different, doesn't have a place in the game, that's no good.

There were a couple of great coaching tirades last night. You had the one on torts there. Marty St. Louis had some interesting comments. But my favorite of the night was Patrick Waugh. I liked it. I liked it, too. I liked it, too. I said the same thing on air real time, A.B.

I was on air last night at NHL network and we're watching the game. I'm like, Oh my gosh, the island is going to blow this. Now it's too late. But I did say, you know, it's going to be pissed off.

Sorokin. Cause goaltenders hate garbage time goals against. Because they don't, the players, we don't, it doesn't bother us so much unless you're the one who makes the mistake. Because you know what? Plus or minus, whatever we're going to win. It's all good. Life's unless you're the one who makes the mistake. Because, you know, plus or minus, whatever, we're going to win.

It's all good. Life's good. For the goaltenders who live and die with every goal against and they care about their stats and how they're impacted individually, they hate that stuff. So for Patrick Wanda to say, in my day and age, if you would have played that garbage defense in the last minute to give up two goals to lose 5-4 instead of 5-2,

I would have come at you in the dress room. I completely appreciate what he's saying. I played with Sean Burke, one of my favorite players, one of the best boys I've ever played with. Absolutely fiery competitor. And he would have not maybe beat me up, but he would have

gotten into the ear of the players in the room for that, not just out of a selfish nature, but also out of, like, let's have some professionalism to finish the game off for everybody, not just for me. I totally get it. And, you know, it's actually probably more common than Patrick Waugh made it sound. Well, let's talk about Marty St. Louis as well, MJ, because we've seen the Canadians

lose 6-2 this year. They've lost 7-2. They've lost 8-2, but it wasn't until last night that they lost 9-2 after only being down 3-2 at the second intermission. What did you make of that collapse? Giving up 6 in the third period?

Tough. That's almost hard to do. I mean, I play on bad teams, and I know what can happen, but that is as much a... Even Jake Evans sort of acknowledged it. He said, I don't know what happened. We gave up or something. And giving up's a strong word,

but they stopped taking great pride and care in the results, because the result got away from them. Once they got sort of 5-2, then the will to battle left for the rest of that game from everyone. Sometimes it can be one player who's out of an off night, but everyone.

I think that's the greater concern where they sort of just threw in the towel and poor Caden Primo, if he goes in there, he gets lit up for free in like eight minutes or whatever it was. Come, come on, guys. Same sort of sentiment for Sorokin. Like, let's help each other out here. Yeah, I'm not going to say it's an indictment and that group of players is a bunch of losers.

Like, that's not true. But in that moment, that was not a professional approach for themselves and for their teammates in the third period. Caden Premo, 571 save percentage. 1636. That's against average. And listen, Primoz had a tough year there. Yeah. And I know it was so strange.

Montemayor got pulled with 10 minutes left in the game. No one ever gets pulled after 50 minutes. If you make it to 50, you make it to 60. That's how it works. Exactly. But Primoz, when he went in there, he could use a little love. He could use a couple. Give him 10 good minutes.

And it's not like Pittsburgh would be completely throwing the kitchen sink at the Habs. But at 6-2, they're sort of just playing up a string as well. But if you're going to give them chances, they'll take them. And he gets hung up to dry there. So yeah, not good. Montreal, they have some games where you're like, okay, there's

some strides there. Then they have some games like last one, and you're like, no, they're a million miles away still. Somehow Gino was a dash one in that game too. How do you dash one in a 9-2 thought game? I got it better for you. You can look it up. Last

game of the 1999 season, we're playing Toronto versus Florida. I was actually suspended for the game due to a vicious elbow because I'm a goon. But we were playing Florida, and they had emptied their roster. So their entire American League team was up. And Sean Burke was in net for Florida. We won 10-1. And my guy, one of my favorite teammates of all time, Todd Warner, 10-1. And my guy, one of my favorite teammates of all time, Todd Warner,

10-1. Minus one, no points. Oh, man. You talk about sourness at postgame. From a guy who was really happy-go-lucky, that was it. Because you're like, how is that even possible? How could I even do that? We almost felt bad for him.

Almost. Couldn't have got him the phantom assist at some point. Something. Straight second one. How many times did you get a chance to watch Macklin Celebrini play before he got to the NHL? A couple times, right? Juniors and then championships.

Yeah, I was a world junior the whole time. Absolutely. And he's awesome. And I said this before, so it's not sort of hyperbole. He's awesome. I've said this before, so it's not hyperbole. It's not reactive. The thought being he's got a chance

to not maybe be a better scorer than Conor Bedard, but maybe a better player, a more complete player because he has an element of power and speed to his game, like a strength element that Bedard doesn't have. Bedard as great as celebrini shoots it badar play shoots it better but celebrini can skate and when you go around the league ab and i you know i'm traveling around i talk to different players or different media or staff coaches whatever who have played san jose

they talk about him being way better than they thought he was, than they thought he would be right away. Like, they have glowing positive reviews for how good he is already in the NHL, just, you know, whatever, his 20 games into his career. Well, and the crazy part is he got hurt in his first game and then had to miss a couple of weeks, and then he comes back and he's been a point-per-game player ever since. Like, the guy is truly exceeding all expectations. and then had to miss a couple of weeks, and then he comes back, and he's been a point-per-game player ever since.

Like, the guy is truly exceeding all expectations. And I think it's probably because there were so sky-high expectations on Conor Bedard, generational talent. So it kind of made Celebrini not look as, I don't know, as sexy as a prospect. But, man, like, this guy really could be just as good a player, feels, an overall player at least yeah yeah and i think there's the idea like you know bedard for what he did the world junior tournament was just you know mind-bogglingly best of all time and the numbers he put up in regina

and the other guys who did that were like eric lindros and like conor mcdavid and guys who were the greatest players of their generation. Players who come out of college having won the Hobie Baker as a freshman, there's been a couple guys. Jack Eichel, did he win the Hobie Baker as a freshman? He might have. But Jack Eichel didn't go to the NHL and get 95 points and 40 goals. I think the direct comparison to what he was coming from,

to what he was supposed to be able to do, was not as clean as Bedard. And he hadn't been in the spotlight for as many years as Bedard. And so you're right. I absolutely think the expectation, whatever the standard that was going to be, it was lower for him. But maybe as impressively,

it's not like he's doing it with a ton of support around it. Like the Sharks are playing great, give him full credit. But that's not a fantastic roster just yet. No. So he's a driving force behind what they're doing well, and that is so impressive. Well, that's it. Bedard, well, there's no one around him. He's got no help.

Celebrini, same situation, but he seems to be putting up points. MJ, it sounds like AB is trying to corner the market on Celebrini trading cards. Yeah, hoard in, AB. Whatever you need to do. The pump and dump. He's pumping up the value as we speak. Exactly.

He's a day trader for stocks right now, exactly. And the other part about this, the other side of this conversation, and it's one worth having, is that we've sort of been critical of Bedard's production, of his play, of Chicago's play, of him not on the Four Nations. What does Bedard have right now? Does he have 26 points in 29 games?

I don't even have it in front of me. About that. He's just at our point of game play for a crap team. 24 and 29. 24 and29. 24-29. Trap team in a crap situation and he's on pace for 70 points. And that's him being terrible?

Pretty darn good. It's not bad. It's not bad at all. That's a better point for game pace than John Tavares? In that range. Or virtually the same? And we are celebrating Tavares for being like, how much he deserves to be on the Four Nations

and how great he's been. And I'm like, it's about expectations, of course. And I'm not saying it's not just points, it's not playing. But I think largely both guys are getting evaluated because of their points and not a lot of other situations. So, yeah, it hasn't been good. But even if it's not so good, it's pretty darn good. Oh, it is. This is not

a conversation to down Bedard. He's still playing well. I just think Celebrini's definitely putting himself in a higher echelon than maybe we thought. Johnny, I appreciate... I would be curious, AB, real quick. We'll never know this, and I don't think it was that close, but who would

have been closer to make the Four Nations today? Bedard or Celebrini? Based on how they chose that team, where they kind of took a couple of role players, you would think maybe Celebrini, no? I would think so. Yeah. We'll never know, but maybe we'll find out for the Olympics, but they both make it. Maybe they won't.

We'll see. Yeah, we'll find out. All right, Johnny. Appreciate it as always, pal. Have a good weekend. All right, boys. Have a good weekend. We'll see. Yeah, we'll find out. All right, Johnny. Appreciate it as always, pal. Have a good weekend. All right, boys. Have a good weekend. There he goes.

Mike Johnson joining us on the Maple Toyota Hotline. Check out Maple Toyota's huge truck and SUV lineup, including Tundra, 4Runner Highlander, and Grand Highlander in stock and ready to deliver. Visit mapletoyota.com.