OverDrive - Johnson on the Oilers entering a new era, Marchand's next destination and the state tax implications

Episode Date: June 20, 2025

TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the Oilers' forward steps, the priorities to improve the roster, Brad Marchand's contract outlook, John Tavares' value in Toronto, the impact of state tax on deals in the league and more.

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This meal is delicious! And... Love that I'm out shopping more and this concert rules and even what was I even doing with my life before signing up with Virgin Plus and getting to do all this fun stuff and who doesn't want that get affordable phone plans and so much more with Virgin Plus obviously visit a Virgin Plus store or virginplus.ca for details. Here's Mike Johnson our TSN hockey analyst joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. What's up, Johnny? What's going on, boys? Now, is it me? Maybe it's the era we live in, but the Panthers are definitely, not that they're having a better time than any other winner, but they sure as heck are documenting their good time as much as any

other winner. Like, no holds barred, language, inebriation, not that there should be, but it's just we don't see that from teams that win as openly as what they're running to right now. Carving team, carving the Oilers, carving individuals, they are not holding. No, just whatever. I guess, and I guess yo yo to the victors go to spoils, right? You win you can say anything you want about anyone you want right now and what are they gonna say back to you? They can't say a thing. Yeah, Johnny were you aware or I think duffy tweeted out I don't I hope he was being serious, but about the trash talk on the ice how

He said that he had heard that it was the worst That's ever been done in the national hockey league did you hear anything about that yeah i mean i have i can't talk to james about it but i did hear from other people unrelated to his tweeter whatever he said about it now act find it hard to believe worst ever because yes i could be eighty-six

hostages that you know you can put in jail for so yeah uh... but but apparently it was you know be it was what what what all that it was beyond sort of the scope of the game and the player is directed into off-ice family kids will parents whatever that kind of stuff which is which is unusual nowadays yeah that's uh... that's where I think

what they were saying for modern day for what today especially with the mics around everything is a hot mic right so I think that's probably what they were as far as context Johnny but because I've been in we've all been in dressing rooms and all been on the ice where there's been you look back in a 2025 lens to some things that were said in the late 90s early 2000s. It's just a no fly zone now right like there were that was everyday type of things. So I think there's context to it but it did sound like it got very personal where you know nothing was off limits wives girlfriends you name it you know money situation all of

that type of stuff. I think everything was on the table local who could you be a little bit you would you pay money to teach you a situation about there's one that i have obviously you know what though yeah i know i think that it came to play bankruptcy but it uh... uh... the i from what i gather uh... you know that's not been told me by the teams but

i think the leader of the went and spoke to the teams and said, hey, for that very reason to us, the hot mics are going to pick this up. Like you guys have to tell your players that phone it down because if this gets out and it's hard not to, some sort of, you know, behind the scenes thing gets leaked, it would not be a good look. People would be, I think people are generally pretty tolerant of the desire to win and the win at all cost mentality. We sometimes even admire that in our athletes.

But some of the things that might have been being said were so over the line that it would turn people off like what is this, what's the matter with these guys? Why are they saying these things to each other? And it went both ways with Edmonton to Florida, Florida Florida Edmonton So no party was it was more guilty, but yeah, it was You know, but then you shake hands and it's all forgotten

I guess right afterwards and you don't have to worry about it But yeah that was sort of out there during the final that this was that the tone on the ice is pretty nasty Johnny you just mentioned a guy before we get to the Oilers other is pretty nasty. Johnny, you just mentioned a guy before we get to the Oilers other options and needs and what they were saying and their pressers you just mentioned Evander Kane like do you think they bring him back? Is he a UFA? One more year. Oh he's got one more year. Let's scratch that question from the docket. I think he's gone to be honest guy. I don't know how you feel Johnny. Yeah I mean I think oh that's a topical question given what's know i think you know i i think the time level i think he's gone to be honest guy i don't know how you feel johnny

yeah i mean i think all of the the topical question given what's happening right now and i think that's what i've been on yeah i know it's what you meant we've read it right but if that moment talked about he likes a defenseman he's got to change his forward he got a change of goalie he basically said it out loud so when you're changing your for, that just not mean just bringing UFAs and letting your FAs walk,

but also like Victor Armisen has one more year on his deal. Evander Kane has one more year on his deal. Those two guys make like what? Nine million bucks between them. And if you're able to shed that salary, that opens up some things to be a little bit more creative. So Evander Kane is funny because in game one

of the final, he was really good. He had nine hits and he was in on a couple goals and he's banging guys around the net and doing all the stuff that Evander Kane can do. He scored a goal early and then the series wore on. He just sort of got further and further away from the score sheet and more onto the penalty box and it just kind of got away from them but I do think it is I think the oilers will effort to trade a Vander Cane makes five one two five and if they can find a taker he's got some modified no trade protection absolutely you can get a no trade list too I think they do it and and given what Nathan Marchman just went for third and a fourth for four and a half,

and Vander Kane went healthy as every, he's as good as Nathan Marchman is for his producing points and physicality and all the rest. So there should be a taker out there. At the very least on an expiring contract, guys, if you're a team not making the playoffs, you trade for Vander Kane, you give up a fourth rounder, you take on a salary, you trade him for a second or first

at the deadline, and he can anticipate going on To a different team and and that's maybe one way you could flip picks and upgrade a little bit for just chewing up some salary Yeah, he's listen when he's healthy He's a good player and I know he took a lot of high sticking penalties that drove people crazy I get it, but you know watch what you wish for there's an awesome cadre comparison there like a place for keeps and he's tough for the peace on his toes and you know if you like

run them out cuz uh... too many stupid penalties we don't like that you replace with a guy who doesn't have takes and i think you need to know malgan in their exactly i think what they're gonna do though, A, is say, Trent Frederick. Yes. He's the guy. Will be a lower rent,

and not as much off as a Vanderkane. I'm not saying that, but like, physical guy, occasionally will drop the gloves, play with an edge, and make, you know, a million dollars less for the next eight years. So, they would probably say that's the guy who's gonna slide in there, so they can replace sort of what a Vander Kane does

But the reality is the Oilers need wingers again Again, we talked about this. Oh, yeah, doesn't that make you think that doesn't that make you think Johnny? It's like you need wingers and you're gonna get rid of you Vander Kane Because other than the dumb penalties in the finals like man, it was always McDavid like man, it was always McDavid, Drisital, probably Hyman, and Kane was the next guy that was performance wise their best guy. And you're gonna move off that? Scary thought.

Nugent Hopkins plays the wing too. Yeah, yeah, and Corey Perry, yes, 40. I don't know how much you're gonna get at him, but he was also very good. But that also, the fact he had a 40 year old as good as he was playing on the first power play on the first line speaks to the lack of depth the noodles I wonder if Edmonton had their way and say okay we just lost a bark off Bennett Lindell we'd be pretty good with

McDavid dry settle Nugent Hopkins if we had six wingers to play with those guys not a great difference Florida got the wingers Edmonton does not I agree and it's weird I Bowman said today that they said they like Frederick because he can play all three positions and he's more comfortable on the right side as a left shot but he's been wanting to play center. He's only 27 so I mean that's a guy I could see that slide in there but I also think R&H if you could make him a third line center that's where again easier said than done. But I think they do package Kane and Arvidsson or any type of thing, and they're looking

for other. Skinner goes away because he's unrestricted, and you're looking for players to help. I think they need one player. Struddy said it, and I don't disagree with him. They need somebody who has chemistry with Dry Settle other than Nugent Hopkins. How do you know it's going to work though, Jamie? You're saying, oh, this guy probably would. We can look at the numbers, but if it doesn't work, you're kind of screwed. You still need a good player. No, of course. If you go, and this is the wrong, I know I'm not going to, but if Brian Rust,

if you could get a Brian Rust, if you could get somebody like that, you know, like who can play top six, straight line, can shoot the pot, keep up and everything like that, then maybe that is his, you know, his player to play with. Because Gasparry Kaepernick, you know, makes one good play out of 20. So that's not your guy. Like that's the, that was a that's the that was a you know like you know pod Colson. I like pod Colson. I don't like him in a top six. No, he's a heavy player. Yeah, I like him. But I give dry saddle a lot of credit for that. He was like, yeah, it was pod

Colson and Arvidsson some nights and it was like the guy almost won the hard trophy is like, oh my god. But but that's what Johnny's talked about they've got this match the boy kid they've got Noah Philip like they've got some young kids that they've got to plug in and give them an opportunity to but they also have to find a top six player to play with dry subtle and you got to go look around the league for it you know you do yeah they're not a lot of terrible name actually because like the exit is out of Pittsburgh I know he's got term on his deal, but

Pittsburgh should be interesting if this works Intentionally getting worse. Yeah, you know they're they're ripping it down So guys like Russ who makes five million bucks a couple years left they can get picks or young prospects They probably do stuff like that and Russ might be the only guy on the penguins. I mean check I don't think he has trade protection. Everybody else on Pittsburgh has some sort of trade protection. Brian Russ doesn't have any. You can send him anywhere, anytime.

We have Mike Johnson. All right. Let's say we get to July 1st and the Leafs have in front of them the exact same contract both players are willing to accept, but they're only going to keep one or take one brad marshan a john to bars who do you think they should take who do you think they would take and they have the exact same contract for let's say four years seven million

they're both like all take it and i'm coming up to toronto a uh... i'd like and just on the redmau's account i'm not sure if i'm not that i know the federal committee at the end so traditionally speaking they need a better and i like

don't buy march and it is not a good about don don't find him either you save that money for a centerman Is there there's I'm taking the option C Because our Shand on the wing sure it's he's a very good player And he of course he could play with Matthews and Matthew and I's and be great And he could probably pair up with Nylander and whoever and be really good but right now the Leafs are devoid of second line center and probably a third line center, right?

And we just watch Bennett Lundell, 2 and 3, win a second family cup in a row. Just squash people. Now you're not going to get that kind of talent, you're not going to have that kind of success, but you need massive upgrades from, effectively it is one of the camps or i don't know we have player x no maybe a lot will be a lot of whatever yes they need

yeah so i would not find anyone until i get a better straightened out yeah and it's it's fair johnny do you think you were all focused on you know to borrow us obviously and and what they're going to do, but would you think Tree would be proactive with some guys in this bottom six that have either term or at least a year left? I'm circling Domi, I'm circling Yarncroak, I'm circling Kampf.

Again, I don't know what you would get for them, but just different looks. Would you be just more focused on trying to fill that second line center and then build the team out after that? Well, I imagine you could do both at the same time, right? If you can get rid of those contracts. David Camp has been a serviceable player and pretty reliable. He does what he can. But $2.5 million for a fourth line center,

he's not a great penalty killer, that's too much money. Right. And now those numbers may go up a little bit as the cap goes up, you may not be quite as pinched, but the Leafs are pinched, they're pinched up top, trying to round out their roster. So, you know, if Kelly Yarnbroke's gonna be a fourth liner, like you don't want six, seven, eight million dollars on your fourth line, you know, if Kelly are folks gonna be a fourth liner like you don't want six seven eight million dollars on your third fighter fourth line

You just don't you want three million dollars and that saves more money for the other guys who play a little bit more a bigger role So yes, if he can You know Domi has trade protection camps has trade protection yard folk has trade protection. They all do so And they're not trading Scottie Lawton because he only makes a million and a half dollars. So yeah, I think he will look to be aggressive and see if he can take advantage of teams with some cap space and maybe package stuff to get rid of those guys or move them along or one or two of them or whatever it might be noodles. But yeah, yeah, it's not just the top, you know, Marner and Tavars

they need to replace. I think they want to shuffle the deck all the way down. Yeah Yeah, that seems reasonable now, you know, there's only so much you can expect to happen There's only so many players available and other teams are willing to spend money and you know, Mason Marchman was there I guess you could have had him for a third and a fourth round pick but Seattle got in first, you know or was willing to pay that price. Maybe the Leafs can't even afford that. You know what, A's, not to go down this road, we don't want to go get off topic here, but Dallas traded Mason Marshmallow to Seattle.

That's what Washington is, Washington State. No state tax. And I think just putting it out there, if you're a franchise who asks guys to take discounts because of your state tax situation and then you trade them to high tax locales, that's a bad look, right? So I wonder if that also is a manufacturing, the Marchman thing like trying to do this solid by keeping the same no state tax jurisdictions. trying to do this solid by keeping the same no state tax jurisdictions. Could be the case. And if it is, the league would know it.

And yet the league is going to turn a blind eye to it. Cause that's even more ridiculous. Like you can't trade for a player because of where you live, you operate. I would just say this, let's say, Hey, okay, you want to find somewhere. And I'm like, listen, Brian, um, come to Nashville to Nashville, we'll give you $4 million a year. I know you can make five elsewhere, but four is equal to five, you're here. No, as a club, we don't give you no trade protection, but you're going to be here, you're part of our future, we're not going to trade you, we're going to have to do this because financially it doesn't hit you, but we can't give you no trade.

So you're doing a leap of faith, sacrificing a million dollars, let's say. And then, two years later, they say, you know what, now we got a trade. You're sorry about that leap of faith, and sorry about the two million we're costing you. In that sense, I would want to do right by you, because I've asked you to do something, and I didn't allow you to protect yourself

for that sacrifice. I think, if anyone asked me to take a state tax discount, I'm like, sure, give me a full low move. That's how it works. You get the discount, I get the news that I'm always playing here. And if you don't have that, I can see why teams might want to try to support the player in that regard. In the end here, I get it, Johnny, but in the end, this is the thing too.

This is a business. And as a manager, I get that you try to take care of players, but sometimes there's no favors to be done. I got to trade you and I got to move you out and Team X is what it is. Marchment's a wonderful person and Jim Neal is a great manager and in this situation he does him a solid. But you know, sometimes, listen, we gave you four years at four million, we gave you a $16 million contract, it didn't work out or we're moving on from here.

Like at some point you have to put your business hat on and say, I'm trading you, like and you were traded or whatever. Like that's the biggest thing. I see sometimes it's just, unless you've got no trade protection, you've got to work with the player. Sometimes it's like, yeah, we traded you. We got to move on. How to do it, sorry.

It's a business. That's the thing. You're getting compensated a lot of money. I've been in that scenario. Johnny, I'm not sure, oh, you've been in it. Johnny, I'm not sure if you were traded or if you just signed. A.Z. went from Barry to Sarnia. That's true.

So we've all been traded. I was traded three times, yeah, for sure. Yeah, so it, you know, it, I know it's a different generation and I get it, but sometimes you gotta put your business hat on and you do what's best for the organization because Dallas was pressed up against the cap. They needed to move his money.

So they did do him a solid, but in the end, if it wasn't going to be Seattle, it was going to be somebody else because they had to dump them off the books technically, right? Yeah. And it's more about the cap than anything else. That's another thing. Like if the player doesn't pull their weight, that's not what happened with Marchman here necessarily. But then it's like, well, who cares about what,

I paid you a lot of money, you haven't even played like a $4 million player. So what am I doing you a favor for? You didn't do me one. That's a totally different conversation. If we get state tax, you get four goals, dude. I gotta trade you. You know, like.

Yeah, I mean, Marchman had 22 goals. No, I'm not saying Marchman. That's not what I'm saying in general, though. Like, the fact that they're going to apply across the board, at some point it's like, well, actually, player X. Yeah, 100%. Listen, I'm all about being controlled. I got no problems.

I got no problem being ruthless. Absolutely not. I'm just saying, as an organization, if your reputation is we ask for discounts for state tax reasons, we don't give no trade protection, then we kind of hurt your contract value because we trade you after we kind of said we wouldn't. That's not a great reputation to have. No, I hear you. And those are things to be considered for sure.

And if you can do it, great. If you can't, sorry Mason March, but we're sending you to wherever, Montreal, the highest tax rate in the league. That's what you got to do, but if you can do a solid, you, we're sending you to wherever. Montreal, the highest tax rate in the league. That's what you've got to do, but if you can do a solid, you would. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah. I wonder where this is going, the state tax stuff, man.

I told you, man. It's just going nowhere. No, I mean in terms of the conversation. What the next layer is. How can teams be competitive if they're like, no, I'm not on this no state tax So it's like nobody wants to play. It's it's a problem. Yeah I don't think it's a problem. I think the way I sort of come wrap my head around it It only becomes a factor

When you become good, it doesn't really help you that much to become good. What it does is helps you stay good. It helps you once you have Sam Reinhart come up and you're like, you know what, we can get him for $2 million less than a high state tax place and we'll give him a no move because he's earned it. Those acts, like now what Florida's going through,

now is when it becomes a more significant factor because it lets you stay good more room probably room for one extra high high end one extra ten million dollar player that's why you're see six years in a row Florida team in the finals like that to your point yeah because the F is now these guys will eventually get old and they won't be good anymore and then it will in the state tax will matter nearly as much. Right. Well, and I guess what I'm saying is like what, you know, does it continue to pop up with players making decisions in the future?

You know, college agents, so they're like, I'm not going, why would I go anywhere else? I go to Florida. I go to Texas or I can go to, you know. Didn't Tampa just lose lose that Hobie Baker winner Yeah, Oliver Moore. Yeah, I mean this guy didn't want to sign with Tampa or they're having to trade him. He's going back to Michigan State. Yeah, like they're like it I guess we can talk about it. I think Johnny you're bang on. It helps you when you're really good because all of a sudden like you say you can squeeze in players

Have you got a program that that people want to be a part of? Hey the tax the weather all of that adds into the bucket that you can add to it So you can find an extra player. I'm not disagreeing that the tax is a conversation But like I say when when I was with the Panthers in 06, it wasn't that big of a deal. I'll be honest because we weren't really good. But in the end, you're right. If you're a good program and it gives you that competitive edge, which right now both those teams in Florida are top tier, so it's giving you a competitive edge, that's where

people have a problem with it and rightfully so yeah exactly i mean that's the whole thing like that no one can argue against it rare players on these teams that are as we just we're gonna hear it a ton in the next two weeks yeah i want to know what would have to be this what

well like how does it like i get it for the real money for the player but in terms of team building the gm sub the exact same amount the bold numbers the bold number and it's finite And it's and there's a cap to it The other side of the spectrum though, too is in Winnipeg. It's got to be this or in Ottawa It's got to be this because you might have to pay cold weather tax or small market tax Right like for but this one's the positive side of it, you know, right i a right there's negative ones there's a lot of them words like i'm not going here

not going there don't want to do with this you know let's face it can a canada in general is is on what's that box for a lot of players are alive and i'll tell you let's be clear a lot of canadian players to not just americans that a lot of canadians are like no way i'm staying in the states and that's what i know and i'm i'm used to it, no way, I'm staying in the States, man. That's what I know and I'm used to it now and this is where I'm staying. So it's not just Americans who don't want to come up. There's Canadian kids, they put on the jersey at the Olympics that are like, I'm not coming

up. So it's not just Americans, but Canadians, Canadian markets face it, smaller markets face it, cold weather American market face it, it's just a reality. But and this is what I was pointing out earlier in the week, it's probably going to get worse. Like with Atlanta is probably coming in again, Houston is coming in and they're going to get the Vegas rules. Exactly. So it's not, it's just going to get more and more difficult because there's more and more

southern great weather, great tax teams coming. So it'd buckle up. I mean, and that's the nature of sports is don't, you can't whine about it. Even if it's true, you got to beat it. You got to find a way to beat it. Yep. That's it. That's exactly right.

And as we said earlier, like as the cap continues to rise Some of those northern big market big tax teams will have an advantage because they'll have more revenues They can just they can just pay more for players They go all the way to the cap all the time and some teams won't be able to or will want to and that That may swing the extra five eight percent actual dollars back into neutral for these teams So yeah, it's not a big deal, but we'll see. Like when Sam Bennett's saying, I'm not going anywhere Wolf of Wall Street style. And when Brad Marchand wants a new contract, like we'll see what their numbers come out with.

We're all talking about $10 million for Sam Bennett somewhere in the league. When he signs for seven and a half, we're like, what, why, you know, what's going on here? And like that will be part of the discussion got it gonna happen yet that is for sure johnny well see what comes of it next week and there's news coming out basically every day and

what are we ten days away we go to a so we've had a little bit a comeback i am i am i'm really excited to do well you know how to be and yet i love it back to talk about the winnipeg tax there's a winnipeg discount guys from manitoba wants to play in winnipeg and coming back on a good story and report if you could if you could it's a difference in a month trip need for that team monster

if you get well what a story like in Winnipeg, it's Taves, it's his hometown, they're a good team and he steps in there immediately and it's just going to be so much buzz around him. And he'll be prepared for it because Chicago is a huge market and sports market and hockey market and they were great. They were the kings of that city. And he spoke every day in a lot of media so it's not going to be something he hasn't dealt with before but you're right i mean he could have gone to tampa

and exactly and you know what the other thing too the biggest shock that we've had probably in what the last couple calendar years is hellebuck and shy flee staying there remember that they really ought to hellebuck didn't want to stay he just didn't get the deal He wanted it wasn't like shopping himself around. He didn't get the contract

He wanted then he came back to Winnipeg. I think in the end Yeah, I I don't know what you know what the final story was But I was a hundred percent shocked that both of them signed extensions And you know and and stayed like that's just we had talked about like about, geez, Winnipeg might be in one. They might have to break up that core, all of that type of stuff. What's Kyle Connor going to do? What's Josh Morrissey going to do if these guys leave? And they stayed.

It was good for them. They had a great season. So Jonathan Tay's adding into that, it's great for Winnipeg. I'm happy for him. It's a great story. Yeah, I can't wait to see. I hope he's got something left, Johnny. That's adding into that. It's great for Winnipeg. I'm happy for it. It's a great story. Yeah, I can't wait to see what, I hope he's got something left, Johnny. Like that's the thing. That's the great debate.

Who knows? Who knows? Two years out, I guess the body doesn't have the miles on it, so he should feel refreshed. But late thirties, haven't played for a couple of years. That's not as great as he was. That's not the easiest thing to try to do. No, it's got like aia lamu type vibe to it almost You know like leaving right and coming back

He'll be flying his first three or four days at camp first regular season game his legs will seize Along with his back Hit hard it'll be like what is going on here? What am I doing? hit hard it'll be like what is going on here what do i do and he's back it's a great story right johnny have yourself a little bit next week we can jerry's of mike johnson rts and hockey analyst joining us here on the maple toyota hotline drive the built-in canada fuel-efficient fun to drive toyota

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