OverDrive - Johnston on Marner's contract puzzle, his future in Toronto and the lack of negotiations

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

TSN Hockey Insider Chris Johnston joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the NHL, Mitch Marner's contract next steps, the stance on the team, the negotiations in Toronto, Mikko Rantanen being in the deal, the management's approach to keeping on the roster and more.

Let go from your job without a severance package? You need employmentlawyer.ca. Your employer is legally required to give you as much as 24 months pay when you lose your job. Call your Sam Firou and get what you're owed. Employmentlawyer.ca. Here's Chris Johnston, our TSN Hockey Insider, joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. What's happening, CJ? Not much, guys. How you doing?

We're doing well. Any further reporting on this Marner maple leaf story you can tell us from last week. We were talking on Friday, you know, obviously Carolina came calling or the Leafs went to him and asked him to wave. What should we be making of this in terms of the future Marner, Maple Leafs, their relationship? Well, the truth is the future is unclear, right? And so when the future is unclear and one party has all the decision-making, which is Marner's side, then the Leafs have had to at least think about what other things would look like. It's not because they want that.

I mean, I think that Brad True Living, what he said yesterday is totally factually aligned with everything I heard that happened privately. Like the Leafs want to sign this guy. It's not, it's not about them not wanting to pay him or anything like that. They didn't get to a spot negotiations. They couldn't get past. And then the Leafs got to this point. They didn't negotiate. And so at this stage I would say it's tough to say where it goes, but the Leafs without knowing what Marner truly wants, without knowing if that could fit into their picture,

without knowing that's going to happen, they've had to imagine what the world might look like beyond the season without them. And that's where you get to what happened before the trade line, trade deadline, where I believe they had multiple conversations with Marner about, you know, maybe moving on. Obviously, Mitch didn't do that. And here we are today. I do think that the first goal would be to have the player on the team and he's still on the team. So that's a positive.

But if we're looking beyond the season, there's a lot of question marks. Do you sense or do you have any reason to sense that the Leafs are frustrated and You know feeling like they're being backed into a corner here by Marner and his camp. I Don't have any sense of frustration. I think the Leafs understand This is the this is the circumstance where they don't have the power right lots of times. They have the power I mean, it's it's not an equivalent situation But Nick Robertson asked for a trade last summer and he's still on the team because the Leafs, you know,

had all the contractual and CBA, uh, leverage behind them to not have to trade them just cause he wanted to be traded. Uh, in this case, every once in a while goes to the player side of things. And so I think the Leafs understand that, you know, if you look at Brad True Living's personal history, he was with something similar three years ago with Johnny Gajreau in Calgary, where Johnny was their best player, was having a career year. They wanted to get him signed, they worked with them all year and tried really hard. It didn't happen, but I think that they understand where the leverage lies.

And so, you know, frustration would be almost a pointless emotion or thought. I think if you're on the least end of it it They have to try to make the best of it And and as I say they still haven't given up hope on signing Mitch Marner And I don't think they should I still think it's probably a little bit more likely than not Signed in Toronto, but it's certainly not a you know it's not a guarantee at this point in time CJ this is an impossible question because it's theoretical, but I ask you anyway because I know you can handle it if at the beginning of the season Marnerarner is agent, whoever comes out and say, we're doing exactly what Vladimir Guerrero was doing right now, not negotiating in season, does any of this happen?

Might not, right? Because like, if the Leafs know, like, you know, they don't want to do this in season, we have to leave it until the off season if we want to sign him does this even happen well I think it still happens with Jonas because of it basically without anyone saying it out loud March you know March 7th was a deadline because teams don't usually negotiate with players that are you know in the position of martyr after the deadline and so March 7th was the deadline here. It's different than Vladi Guerrero where it was the start of, you know, spring training heading into his last year as, as under contract, but it's the same idea.

And the same conditions would have been a place if, you know, if Darren Ferris and Mitch Marner had to set out September 17th or whatever the first day of camp was, I mean, the truth was he still had a no movement clause and so while they would have maybe made their pitch to sign them, you know, what's different in this situation. And I can't say this clearly or more loudly, Mitch Marner has not been willing to discuss a contract yet. Like this isn't a failed contract negotiation. There has been no negotiation. Um, and that's Mitch Marner's right. I mean, when you're in his situation,

honestly, he's taken on a lot of risk by doing it that way. What most players do in his circumstances, whether they're third liners or first line stars as he is, is most players want to opt for security. They want to sign as soon as they can. They want to make sure just in case it's a bad year, it's an injury, whatever it could be. You know, he's taken it upon himself to have this season while not negotiating. And so, you know, I think there's been tons of dialogue. It's not as though the phone line isn't being picked up on one side, but they haven't actually got down to brass tacks. It's not like there's offers going back and forth and they can't agree.

And so that's what's different with Vladi and the Blue Jays. I mean, the Jays tried to sign Vladi. They didn't want to pay his price. That's fine. In this case it's not it's not a circumstance that the Leafs didn't want to pay Mitch Marner's price. They don't know his price. They can guess it. We can all guess it. But they it's not it's not a case where he asked for something they didn't give him. They have not negotiated yet. And so I think that we have to underline that point. Mitch Marner's side to this to this date has said, we need more time. We want to take this through. He wants to see

things for the rest of the season the way we've all thought maybe the Leafs might want to and so, you know, again, it doesn't mean it can't happen. But there's not really been there's not been a back and forth here. There's been conversation, but there hasn't been negotiation. But I guess if I was the Leafs and I knew, it almost would be like you're talking to a wall a little bit. Like if you're not getting responses back,

it would just be frustrating. Whereas if there's just, we're not talking about this in season, it's not frustrating. Like I don't know if they're frustrated. I would be frustrated if it's like, hey, what do you want? And you're like, well, I don't know. We'll see and it just kind of you know, I mean stage it's just kind of like a one-way conversation and I don't know like it just feels like there's a Grayness to this whole thing is unnecessary

But I also would say if I'm in the Marner camp if I'm playing that role If this is a poker game and every negotiation can be that doesn't always have to be it I mean, that's what frustrates a lot of Leaf fans I think it's like if you want to be here and the Leafs want to engage in conversation that you want to be knock it out and let's put this behind everyone and move on is if I'm in the Marner camp I'm like these guys keep calling me and wanting to negotiate they're the ones that look desperate not us yes your leverage kind of grows well I think it appears to me CJ tell, tell me if I'm wrong.

I think the Marner camp looks at this and goes, there's nothing that's gonna happen between now and June 30th, that is gonna make the Leafs hang up their end of the phone. They're not gonna come back in. Again, and I said this earlier today, I think the Leafs could get swept in the first round, Marner could go pointless,

and the Leafs would still say eight years 13 million you know what are we doing here guys I don't I think the Leafs have made that clear CJ like if they're trying to negotiate the playoffs and the performance there is seems to me to be irrelevant yeah because Mitch has something that a lot that there's not a lot of Mitch's in the league right however many players you might think there is 10, 12, even close to the same kind of caliber and how often those players come free. It's almost never. And so, you know,

he has something that they can't readily replace. We might sit here. We could spend the next three years of, of, you know, the three hour time slot talking about, Hey, what could they get instead of him? And I'll like, look at all the, those, those conversations will happen if they're relevant, but they, they can't get him if he leaves, not, not next year, not right away. Like it's, it's almost impossible. And so, you know, that's, that's where we're at.

You're right. I agree with you, Brian, in that if even at this class doesn't go well for the team, for Mitch, firstly, whatever it may be, I don't think his position to negotiate is that much weakened. You know, I don't know what the organization, I don't know how they view all this. I mean, obviously right now they're trying to manage it. You know, you don't have Bradshaw Living going from the cameras unscripted yesterday,

take one question and leave. Like, they're figuring this out in real time, right? That the hard part for me to gauge is, is there a point where they get frustrated with this? Is there a point where their view on this changes? That's a little bit of an unknown. But they understand what Mitch Marner is. They love the guy as much as the deepest Leaf fan out there. They want to sign him. In fact, I think they want to reset a market for him. I think they're willing to pay him an amount that, that hasn't been done in the

past because we're in a rising cap environment and he's, he's in a great position to negotiate that, but they first have to get down to the sit at the table with them and that hasn't happened yet. And that's, that's the other part of this. It makes the whole thing a little unusual, you know? And, and so I don't know where it goes next I think that's why the story is so compelling and it's not you know, it doesn't end today Well exactly and I and I don't think we've wasted a lot of oxygen on it all year either

Like it's just kind of popped up now And that's the fascination frankly. We didn't talk about it enough because all of a sudden now all this stuff bursts out in public well, and I also think Shanahan Trade living to a lesser extent. He hasn't been here as long not from the market MLSC they're aware of how this city's gonna react if it goes awry in the playoffs and I think that speaks to their urgency also to try to get it done to make it easier on everyone which also makes me But there's what perplexed as to why Marner doesn't see it that way too if his end goal is to stay here

Why would you not negotiate before the playoffs? If it goes wrong, I appreciate if you're so brave and you're so so confident You're like I'm I'm showing up and I love that attitude if that's his attitude I'm showing up watch me I'm dragging this team Austin let's go Willie let's go we're going to a cup fine or whatever it is if he does that it'll be just an unbelievably legendary mic drop play and then after it all signs and goes I don't know why everyone was sweating it this was always my plan let's go like that would be just an incredible story and it would you couldn't script it any better and if

he's that bold and again that courageous I credit him but what is the courage based in like what if if your plan is to stay all along don't you just sign well but especially before the playoffs though around Go ahead CJ. We're dancing around it. It's clear he's not deciding he's staying. Yes, right. And you talked about that last week, right? You think that he is contemplating leaving? Well, if he had decided he was staying, I think the deal would be done.

It doesn't mean he's leaving, but I think it's an open-ended idea from his side. I mean, that's the only way to view this if he was 100 for sure he was percent sure he was staying I think the contract would be done and they would have at least negotiated. They would have went back and forth You know, like this is the point He's not spurned because he thinks the least didn't offer him enough right at least didn't offer like this But there's no that there they've yet to get down to business because he wants more time. And so, you know, I can only guess what he wants that time for, but look, it could be lots of things. Like we've all long been thinking, maybe the Leafs should wait

this out to see what happens in the playoffs if they want to sign Marner. Well, maybe Marner's thinking the same thing. Yeah. And, and it's totally his right to do so. And so like that's, that's what makes this thing is I don't think any of us We went back we were having this conversation September for fun We would have assumed Marner wanted to stay right we would have thought if it broke down it would be over money It's this is not about money yet. I mean it might still become about money at some point

Right now this is still about Mitch not signaling to the least like hey bring your best offer this is still about Mitch not signaling to the least. Like, hey, bring your best offer. Like, what can we do business-wise? Like, he's not indicating at least to them or publicly that he 100% wants to stay. Do you think fear then is, a fear of him leaving may be factored into this where they're at the deadline,

they're like, is this guy gonna sign? And if we can get ranted instead and he's gonna sign, like, do you think that is part of the equation where it's like, I don't know what's gonna happen here? That's the entire equation. Okay. You know, that's the reason, to me, the reason they even got anywhere with Carolina,

even bring it to Mitch is because they thought this would be more security, right? Like this is a player that's gonna wanna sign here as part of this, you know, presumably trade that obviously didn't even get it, you know, get off the ground of this, you know, presumably trade that obviously didn't even get it, you know, get off the ground. But, you know, I think all the thinking is that's the weird thing, right? The GM is thinking about this team right now that has a chance to win a cup and that's the Carlo deal. That's a lot in deal. That's we're focused

on tonight's game on Utah, all that stuff. But the GM and the senior leadership are also thinking beyond the season and the year might end also thinking beyond the season. And the year might end, you know, as Edmonton said, there's a chance at least play their last game on like June 23rd this year, and Mitch is still on sign and they only have seven days to really figure it out. And so they have to be thinking about it ahead of time, but how they sort of what ifs and, you know, the biggest what if happened. The The fact that he even approached him about waving his own movement clause tells us they're a little worried that he won't stay

and that they had to think about something else and he controls the whole situation, man. I mean, that's his fat thing. Someone asked me today, will this be a distraction for bitch? I don't think so, because he knows everything. He's known all about this. I think there've been multiple conversations about waving his own move clause, not just the one.

And he's still performing at the level he's performed this year. He was great for Canada, the four nations. Like he's, this has not affected or impacted his play that we can tell. I mean, he's- He's had a great year. He's had an unbelievable year.

Even on Saturday night, he was great. But it probably does- He was dancing on Saturday night. Let me ask you, Hayes, like how would it make you feel knowing the team was? Ready to trade you like does that but I change anything at all But I don't I think that's it's if you take that personally when your approach has been business that's on you What I mean by that is but he's a human but Marner's Marner's business acumen or his plan has been I'm not negotiating I'm not talking. I'm not doing anything

or his plan has been, I'm not negotiating, I'm not talking, I'm not doing anything. The Leafs are like, well, we want to negotiate, can we get a deal done? And if you're not going to give them an answer or even get to the table, I don't think you can blame the Leafs for, you have to manage for the next eight years. Like they, you know, and Miko,

it's not like they were like, well, we can get Stan Kovan in two firsts. It's ranting it. Like ranting and is on par with Mitch Marner. So if you can get them, it's, but it's like on the one and you don't see any of that. Like I think the least, the least knew that random would sign here. Yeah. I think that's my belief.

I mean, I didn't hear that from anyone in Toronto, but they believed he would. Sorry. Repeat that. They believed he would believe he would sign here. So they would be trading for rent and signing him not just you know They can the next whatever two months with them. So that's the difference like there would have been a little bit of certainty in there They would have to pay him lots of money and all those things. They want to pay Mitch lots of money And that's the funny part. They want to pay him a huge amount of money. They want him to stay

They want his whole career to be a leaf. They want to put 16 in the Raptors They hope he finishes number one or number two overall in franchise scoring all those things are there they hope Mitch and Austin and Willie are all part of a Stanley Cup pass line at some point maybe this June or one of the ones in the future but right now that's still in question because you know at this point Mitch is not signaled his intention to stay beyond June 30th. Yeah. Well, here's another, you know, position of strength that they're in that obviously you want,

they want to keep Marner. I view it differently. It bothers me to an extent that they're so committed to this core three or core four for the rest of time without any playoff success ever factoring in, but that's obviously the way they're going to operate. And that's not individually about Marner that's about all of them but the fact of the matter is they've signed Austin they signed Willie so those two aren't going anywhere Mitch is the guy that is still a free agent and they can make a determination on yet they're clearly not team building based on what's going to happen in the playoffs but even if he leaves Austin's still here and

Nylander's still here and you have like 15 defensemen signed for the future and you got two goalies and you got Matthew Nyes who you have control over. But one thing you haven't circled yet that I wonder CJ if this factors into it Shanahan last year the contract like what's gonna happen there like is that a I don't know is that part of this at all? You're saying he has a year left on his deal. Brendan Shanahan. I believe this is the last year.

I believe it is. We don't know for sure, but like we believe it is. Yeah he does. Come on, that's it. This is it. Yeah. So do you think he's, how is he tied to Marner's future though? Like what is, what would, is Shanahan?

I guess like what I'm saying is like if something, if they had a bad playoff or whatever and Keith Pelley probably sides you know what need a new group here and and they had a group comes in and says you know what we're changing things like is not conceivable cj no it's sports where they are here nine of this thing

yeah i mean there there have to be success but i think i was expecting some of these changes a year or two or three ago Right now that now they might be driven by the players not the team. That's the difference But this does feel like the last Playoffs of the core for one way or another You know, that's not meant as a prediction because I have no idea what's gonna happen tomorrow It's like the state and I'm talking to him the least would like to keep Marner. He's not talking to them Like I don't I don't really idea what's gonna happen tomorrow. I'd like to stay they're not talking to him The least would like to keep Marner. He's not talking to them Like I don't I don't really know what's gonna happen

But but the truth is is that this feels like it's coming apart one way or another and even if they win If it works if they go all the way to the cup, maybe certain people want to leave like I don't know How the the chips fall but it does finally feel like this is not all buttoned together and to make your point So haze yeah, they have these guys signed they're not folding the tent fall but it does finally feel like this is not all buttoned together and to make your point so Hayes yeah they have these guys signed they're not folding the tent if if Mitch Marner leaves this summer I mean there's all kinds of things they can do with that cap space they still have Matthews you know they still have Nylander they still have the formation of a really good team I mean the whole the whole experiment doesn't end there if that's what happens so you know

they're still a team that I think they might take a step back next year, but we'll still be talking to them trying to win. I don't see them going into a rebuild just because one player leaves even as great as that player is. So I mean, man, this is compelling stuff. This is why we're talking about it for 20 straight minutes. And I think the whole market is talking about it. Oh, everybody's buzzing about it. And it pairs with the team, right? twenty straight minutes and i think the whole the whole market to talk about everybody's lives and i want to care about the people right well and the amazing thing is a coincides with

three losses in a row florida taken off you know like there's always emotions like leaves nation i think came alive last week i think this probably is an annual tradition over the last handful of years it wasn't in my childhood it was the whole season i think early on in the Matthews Marner Nylander area you couldn't wait for game one It's not that there's not excitement, but we know the way this works. They get to a hundred points They make the playoffs they play Tampa or Boston or whatever and it's always gonna come down to the playoffs

I think a lot of Lee fans not all of them But a lot of them are like wake me up when we get there I think a lot of Lee fans woke up last week. I think the trade down line sparks a lot of that. And now I think this Marner stuff, I think the negotiation, I'm hearing it from so many different people. Sure, both of you guys are. What do you make of it? What's going on? What do you think of this? What's going to happen? And I think a lot of Leaf fans also are looking at it saying, okay, so I thought they were in first place And I think first place is a high priority now Florida's gonna work until three games they were three games ago exactly it's not that they can't still chase that down

They got a game in hand. They got three games against, Florida, but It's the Marner noise coinciding with the trade deadline coinciding with the three-game losing streak and I Pick leaf leaf fans are alive. They're alive and they're like what do we got here the rest of the way. That's good they want a different they're getting different. He's like this is this is different. This is a guy who might walk out after having a great year. Yeah and that guy from Aurora right? Like a guy who loves the Leafs but feels

like maybe he's had a little too much from the market from guys like us on the media side, like everything. Like it might just be time for him to have a fresh start and if that happens it's time for the team to have a fresh start too. Well and that's the thing, the Leafs were around before he showed up, the Leafs will be here after he leaves if he leaves. You know and that's his call and it's his choice and it's, you know, nine years, he's still an all-time great leave like through nine years You've already used fifth all-time in points like you know, he's been here a long long time

They all have been here a long long time and I said after last year. I'm like it feels stale You know it doesn't feel stale now because the band-aids being ripped off and people are talking about different angles and a Lot of emotions that have popped up I think for years for Lee fans of again like I said kind of come alive but you know he's he's got a young family he's from here he's I don't know I really I am fascinated with with the story of Mitch Marner and I've always been pulling for him and the rest of them to be rock stars and to win but that's at the the of it, which is I think the most fascinating part of this CJ,

is that like the three of them in particular, Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, they all came into the league basically in the same night. Willie had played a few games a year before, but they basically showed up on the same night nine years ago and they've won one playoff round. And there's still a massive debate over whether or not they should stay

for the rest of their careers Like it's amazing. It's crazy Yeah, I can't even invent it actually no if you remove yourself from whether it's a Toronto thing You just put this on paper. You'd be like this is nuts. Yes, they entered the league Matthews scored four goals his first night like it You would think that by now I mean these guys are older guys. Like, they're at the point where, you know, Mitch's, you know, his partner's gonna have

a baby. Like, it's like, and they just haven't got over the hump. And I mean, the whole thing, it's gonna be in a movie one way or another. We just don't know how the movie ends yet. Well, that's the beauty of it is there's a new scene every night. Tonight, they're in Utah playing the hockey club. So enjoy that. CJ will do it again soon.

Thank you for this. All right, boys. Be well. There's Chris Johnston joining us here on the Maple Toyota hotline drive the built in Canada fuel efficient, fun to drive Toyota RAV4 gas or hybrid models available. Visit mapletoyota.com IR radio is taking you backstage with kane brown in quebec city y'all get ready girl let's go put some meet him interview him an i heart radio experience

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