OverDrive - Kurkjian on the Blue Jays' impressive stretch, the trade deadline approach and Judge's dynamic run

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

ESPN MLB Analyst Tim Kurkjian joined OverDrive to discuss the Blue Jays' red-hot stretch continuing, the stance throughout the AL East, the trade deadline approach and if Toronto are buyers, standout players on the market, Bo Bichette's contract trajectory, Aaron Judge's legacy with the Yankees and how to pitch to him and more.

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Switch to the most reliable internet technology with Bell PureFiber with plans starting at $60 a month with a two-year term. Visit bell.ca for more details and to check availability. Bell, internet just got better. ESPN, insider analyst, he does it all. Joining us here on the Maple Toto Hotline, here's Tim Kirch and how you doing Tim? I'm well fellas. How you doing? Oh, we're doing very well. We're enjoying baseball again It's funny how that can change over the course of a year where this time last year

It obviously wasn't going so well for the Jays and and this year it has and you know We've had a difficult time really putting our finger on it because you look at the lineup you know son time there's not playing him and as isn't been playing and isn't really doing anything Hoffman's numbers have been great is pitching but he hasn't been great it's effectively that internal improvement that ross ackins took so much heat for a year and a half ago that commentary that has finally arrived what do you make of the jays

being as red hot as they are? Well, it's pretty darn impressive what they're doing now. It's not just, you know, 15 out of 20, 7 out of 10. I think they've gone 33 and 14. That's a pretty good chunk of the season. And you look at their roster and you look at the way they're doing it and it's not entirely clear how they're doing this, which is a really good sign. If it were obvious, look at this starting pitching, it's unstoppable or this bullpen, which has been very good by the way, has been unbelievable or look how many home runs they hit. The only thing you can point to is that they don't strike out very much.

They strike out fewer times than anybody else and maybe the ball's in play, maybe the tough at bats they take are leading to something good. But where they are right now is a pretty strong position in a winnable division. So I am thoroughly impressed with the way that the Blue Jays have played now for almost 50 games. That's a third of the season nearly and that's impressive. Tim, if you go back to the way the season ended last year, a lot of the off-season conversations about what could happen if this season goes off the rails for the upper management, the

president, those types of positions. So there are where they are now. How much has this surge this year changed the future in those two positions moving forward? Well I think it shows that maybe we were a little premature saying we got to make some moves here. I know I did a couple of network shows early on in the season and said well you got to fire the manager don't you? And I said I don't think that's the right thing to do right now. I'm wrong a lot we are all wrong a lot in baseball but as

it turned out we're right in keeping John Schneider as the manager and Ross Atkins because right now they're in first place by three games in the American League East so this is why you can't ever give up on baseball the Nationals in 2019 were 19 and 31 and they went on to win the World Series. Last year the Tigers were an afterthought until the middle of August when they won a game in Williamsport on Sunday night, beating the Yankees in the ninth inning and that's when they turned. So there's no telling with this beautiful game of baseball when the lights gonna go on and maybe maybe the light has gone on for the blue jays

and what they all time working for them is that you know the red talks are great the yankees aren't great the rays are great and the orioles are stumbling so it's a winnable division and they're playing better than anyone in the division right yeah they sure are and again, you look at the lineup, you know, Ernie Clement is gonna lead off tonight. Hamonets is playing second, but obviously not bringing really anything offensively.

Miles Straw is playing centerfield. Lorpor Fito is out and right. You know, like it's just it's kind of wild. Like if you looked at this roster last year and they were on pace for 76 wins and now this year they're on pace for mid-90s. It's pretty incredible and you mentioned a couple of the more recent teams like in 19 with the Nationals and last year with the Tigers. In 15, the Jays were famously 50 and 51 and they put their chips in the middle and went out and got Tulowitsky, they went out and got Price and they were the hottest team in

the league the rest of the way and made it all the Way to the ALCS and back-to-back years. So with that in mind the Jays this current roster is clearly in a much better position What would what would your projection be? I'm sure you've been asked a lot Like what is your projection on what the Jays do between now and the trade deadline? Well, you're gonna be in there with so many other teams looking for another hitter and another picture i think everyone needs to look toward the diamond backs right now because they have

probably the best hitter available you any of swarovski at thirty five homers and consecutive games with multi-home areas uh... and he's a slightly above average defensive third baseman he didn't used to be but he is now he's a team leader and a clubhouse force so he would be perfect for the Blue Jays but he would be perfect for every other team that needs a hitter Yankees, Mets, Cubs and things like that also they have a couple of pitchers for the Diamondbacks that could help any team. Merrill Kelly, free agent at the end of the year.

So I think we really got to keep our eyes on the Diamondbacks first as to what they're going to do. My guess is, from what I'm told, they're going to sell. The question is, to whom are they going to sell and are the Blue Jays going to be right in the middle of this my guess is they won't be because the team that need players usually have more resources and more money to deal with and the blue jays do that is the back of the yankee so

it can be tough to get exactly what they want but i wouldn't mess too much of the way the team is playing right now what's in that kind of gets that one of the issues with the deadline this year is there's just not a lot out there that seems like it's like readily available. How do you or how do front offices usually confront a problem like that when like the starting pitching is like you mentioned Merrill Kelly like Zach Allen like those guys might not be upgrades on Gosman on Barrios like how do you handle that if you're a front office when what's out there is like kind of okay and like maybe better but maybe not like

do you just do nothing? Do you go to a different need? Like how do you think that they handle a situation like that this year especially? Yeah well this is why I've heard from more than one person over the years. General managers earn all their money right now. Are we in it or are we out of it? Are we sellers or are we buyers? Are we going for it or are we going to sit pat here? And those decisions can affect an organization depending on the organization for years to

come. So these are the difficult questions that have to be answered. Is Zach Galin really an upgrade? Is he your fourth starter when you get him? Are there three starters better than him on the Blue Jays right now? Because if he's going to be your fourth starter, you can't give up a significant amount to get him. Now if you say, all right he's our number two starter, he's that good. Maybe that's a different story, but this is where you have to value players and assign value and say this guy can really help us here. And I agree, I just don't see a

tremendous market out there for starting pitchers who can make a difference and hitters who can make a difference. Now there are going to be relief pitchers everywhere. Someone like Griffin Jackson of the Twins might move, might move and he could really help some teams. Kyle Finnegan of the Nationals likely will be available. He could help some teams. This is where most teams add to their team at the trade deadline is with relievers because you win a great deal in the postseason with a deep personal bullpen. With Tim Kirch and VSPN, I think that's most likely because you look at the three pack of Burrios, Gosman and Bassett, they're always healthy, knock on wood.

They're good pitchers. None of them are going to be up for a Cy Young right now But they're good players capable pitchers They're putting up decent numbers and if that's the question like D Can you find anyone that's better than the than any of the individuals or the collective three? I'm not sure they can or if they're willing to pay for whoever that is or if they have the assets to get them But I think the conundrum or at least the I'm sure what they're contemplating right now, Tim, and I'm curious where you stand on this,

is are you building for playoff success, or if you're the Jays, are you still building to win the division, or maybe finish in one of the top two seeds in the American League, and avoid the wild card altogether? Because that's where Eric Lauer and Max Scherzer, they're wild cards. Lauer's been really good for them. Is it going to keep up? Like if you fall into a wild card

spot because Lauer falls off in September, you'll kick yourself. If Scherzer gets hurt next week or three weeks from now, you're going to kick yourself. What do you think is more, what do you think the goal post is, I guess is what I'm getting to. Do you think it's still regular season success winning the division or do you think he is the next week and a half two weeks to to build a world series caliber team which may be a different conversation yet it is a different conversation especially when you consider the power that is in the national league

and i think the tigers are just better right now then the blue jays are now tigers just lost six games in a row. So in this crazy season where there are very, very few exemplary teams, Jays have to look at it two different ways. Can we win the World Series with this team? If they think they can, then they got to go out and make it a World Series team at the trade deadline. But the first thing they have to do is try to win the division because this whole thing rests over rust you do not want to play in one of those two out of

three wild card series they are just so difficult to win and then to overcome and be ready for the next round so I would think they would do everything it takes within reason to win the American League East and likely get a buy to start the postseason. Tim, when you look at this team, what they have as far as youth on the team, maybe in the system and the mindset of the managers, you mentioned you have to go all in, but how much do you dip your toe into your talent pool of young players to sacrifice some of the future? Thinking this team with Roddy and these types of guys under contract could be a good team for a few years here.

Yeah, again, this is why this is so difficult for a GM is making these decisions. Do we take one of our prized kids to go get somebody who's going to be our third or fourth or maybe worse starting pitcher? Do we get another bat but he's not necessarily an impact bat? I repeat, I don't see too many impact bats out there. So this is where you have to gauge it. It's going to be a little easier on the Blue Jays because they're playing so well right now. If they were in trouble and they're just trying to make the playoffs and then don't do anything, that's going to be hard to justify. But being three games ahead and winning 33 out of the last 47 games, they have a little bit of a cushion to look at the guys in the clubhouse and say, you guys are really good. We don't need much

help here. It's when you're struggling and they that the guys in the clubhouse look at you and go are you going to do something that's when the pressures really on i don't sense that pressure right now on the blue jays with tim kirkjof of ESPN bo bachette is you know of a pending free agent now vladis future has been secured we know he's getting paid he's going gonna be a blue jay for a long time what is your best guess on the shuttle play next year toronto or the field uh...

that's a great question but he's played pretty darn well lately fell as you know you can't watch to eighties to eighty something he's got twelve homers, he's knocked in 55 runs, way above average shortstop in the major leagues. He's been with you the whole time. He's a hit machine when he's really swinging it well. He's had seasons where he's finished unbelievably strong.

He comes from great stock, given who his dad was and the whole gene pool. I would build around him and Vladdy. You've already built around one. I would tell Beau Bechet, you're part of this team moving forward. It's hard to find an everyday shortstop who can hit like he can hit. And even though he's not a great defensive shortstop, he can play the position still. And it's hard to find a shortstop that can play as long as he has these days. So I would lock him up. It's not my money but I think they have enough money in the organization to say if we're gonna lock up a second guy

long term it should be him. Well Tim you mentioned off the top how big a stretch this is for this team playing well. How seriously though do you take them as a World Series contender? Like you mentioned you don't think they're better than Detroit, but are they second, third, fourth in the AL for you and where do you actually see their potential? Well, I think you could make a case at the moment that they're the second best team in the American League. However, as we've said, things have changed in this league, in both leagues, but especially in the American League, so quickly. The Astros were so hot, and now suddenly they're not.

The Mariners were so average, and now suddenly they're hot. Everyone in the American League East has gone up and down, except for the Orioles, who have just been down the whole year. So, it's just another reminder, there are no great teams in the American League. And this year, the National League, there are fewer really good teams than I thought there would be. But if you're going to try to win the World Series, you have to be honest and say, right now, the Tigers are better. Right now, the Phillies and the Brewers and the Cubs and the Dodgers are better. And that's five or six teams right there.

Now that doesn't mean it can't change, because in this crazy game, things change from day to day. But if you're gonna be honest and say, can we win the World Series? I think they have to go out and make a major move, and I just don't know how many major moves are out there. With Tim Kirkjohn, and you're right about it changing quickly. I mean two weeks ago the Yankees came through town for a four-game series. The Jays were three games back of them and Yankees left

town and the Jays were a game up on them after a four-game sweep and now you got the Yankees back in town tonight. They just took two or three down in Atlanta and you know the evergreen topic awaits us. We've got Gosman on the mount tonight, Scherzer on the mount tomorrow gosman on the mount tonight chers on the mount tomorrow uh... basset on the mount on wednesday and erin judge is obviously putting forth the season uh... that very few players have ever put forth in the history of the game the stats are just

absolutely insane and we ask it every time they play the yankees how much should you pitch to judge how often should you give him something to look at or something to swing at? Where do you stand on that topic, especially considering the significance of this series? Now, late July, Jays in the lead, a real chance to take a stranglehold on the American League East. What do you believe John Schneider's approach should be to Aaron Judge? Well, you've got to be be really really careful with him because proven this year that the yankees lineup

at it as a total can be pitched to remember they got shut out three games in a row this year no yankee team has ever been shut out four games in a row they scored six game span they scored seven runs That ties the worst seven game stretch of any team in the history of the Yankees. So you can pitch to them when Judge either isn't swinging well or he's not being allowed to swing at anything good. And he doesn't chase out of the

strike zone very often anymore, which is the biggest change change and has turned him from a big slugger into a great hitter so I would be exceptionally careful with him but that's just me we don't we don't pitch around people like we used to and sometimes that's that's a mistake and in Yankees case he's so dangerous right now. Why would you pitch him if there's any alternative? Well, we were having this debate last week About what judge possibly could accomplish and our colleague your former colleague while your current colleague Steve Phillips Had mentioned to us that he thinks judge could be

that he thinks judge could be cruising towards being the greatest Yankee of all time, the greatest Yankee hitter, which caught my eye, or I went back at him and said, that's interesting, Babe Ruth and Luke Gehrig and Mantle and all these incredible DiMaggio. Where do you stand on this? Like if he ends up winning the Triple Crown this year, which is very possible, you know, he cruises towards 55 60 home runs again Like what kind of season could this do or could this be in terms of judge in his resume? As an all-time Yankee and I guess it's just an all-time offensive season Yeah, well if he does what you're saying and he hit 60 homers and wins the triple crown and wins another MVP then what we have to start considering some things here.

But, um, and he's the best hitter in the game. He is so dangerous, but he's not Babe Ruth, cause Babe Ruth did this for a long time, right? He's, he's not even halfway to Babe Ruth's home run total. However, he got to 350 homers in fewer games than any player in major league history. And he's not Lou Gehrig because Lou Gehrig did things that some players will never do. I mean really no one's ever done when it comes to driving and runs per game, things like that. So I'm gonna bump the brakes on Ruth,

Gehrig, and right now Mano DiMaggio of the okie-pies are but we are really rolling towards something exceptional here with erin judge because of what he's done the last five years this has been in the meeting amazing five-year run and it's far far from over so yet to check back in five more years and get what we're going to put him in there

with group anger yes i i have a very simple review but it is incredible what is the event So you have to check back in five more years if we're going to put him in there with Ruth and Gary. Yes, I have a very similar view, but it is incredible what he's doing, man. It is amazing. Like he is must see TV right now and he's in town. The Yankees are in town for three, but Jays are in the driver's seat, which is pretty incredible even where you consider they were two weeks ago. He is Tim Kirchner of ESPN. Great catching up with you, Tim.

We really appreciate you doing this. Okay, fellas, see ya. Tim Kirchhen joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. Drive the built-in Canada fuel-efficient, fun to drive Toyota RAV4. Gas or hybrid models available. Visit mapletoyota.com. Seasoned gamer or just video game curious?

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