OverDrive - LeBrun on McDavid's contract direction, Tavares' incoming contract and the Maple Leafs' offseason choices

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the NHL, Florida looking to sign their star free agents, John Tavares' upcoming contract and the value in Toronto, Matt Duchene's extension with the Stars, Connor McDavid's future in Edmonton, the Maple Leafs' offseason priorities and more.

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leadership skills, connect with mentors, and gain real-world experience, all while giving back to your community. Best of all, it's a no-cost program available across Ontario, Nova Scotia, Alberta, and BC. Thoughts are limited, so register now at careerfoundation.com. That's careerfoundation.com. Join today and be part of something amazing. Here's Pierre LeBrun, our TSN hockey insider. What's going on Pierre? Back to the handshake line, are we? Well believe me, sitting in the press box the other night, the noodles was there, I was making sure to pay attention to that.

I wanted to make sure that the home arena got in that handshake line. Yes and he did. He did. Yeah, after telling Rod Brindamore that he shouldn't. That's the thing though. When you win, it's all easier. Like you can handshake, not handshake. That's why I think Brindamore was so pissed.

It's like this guy who's won is dictating what's going on. And I believe Brindamore went on a podcast or something because I thought and he said like I'll never do that again. I'll never do that again. Which is even worse. Which I kind of love that Britton of Moors is like, what are you going to do? I'm going to get in line. Do you want to go at middle ice?

Like whatever you want. I'm lining up. I love it. I will tell you this. Having spent the better part of two weeks writing a lot about the florida panthers including the other night and written check it out some of the comments uh... on my athletic columns from non panthers fans there are a lot of people around the hockey world hockey fan-wise that can't

wait for ford enough to win another cup like i don't remember tamp Tampa getting the same kind of hate that other fanbases seem to have for Florida. And I get to understand it, the way the Panthers play. Everyone hates them here. But I mean, I love what they put together, I gotta say. With someone with no skin in the game in terms of fanhood. I don't know, I love the way they go about things. I mean, I think,

they could have, yeah. I mean, everyone hates them. It's a great compliment. And the thing I love the most in some ways, and I'm not, listen, I'm not old school to the point. I embrace all data. I understand where we are in 2025, but one of the things I love the most because they're big, by the way, they're big on data themselves. They use all the modern tools that are out there. But this idea that the game should be played a certain way and that's the way the team should be built and then Florida just goes out and

smashes you right in the mouth when it matters. I mean honestly like that's it's it's that's the first thing you should think of when you're talking about the Florida Panthers. Yeah, and now they go back to the drawing board. You know, Bennett, Ekblad, Marshawn. What happens here in the next two weeks in Florida? Yeah, I mean, listen, Bill Zito's going to try to sign them all as what he said after the Cup was won. I think there was some emotion at the moment at play there when he said that. I mean, I believe him when he says he's going to try. I don't know how

real it is. I mean, Marsha has always felt like more of the rental, even though he's become maybe the greatest rental ever. But, you know, they've got a tight cap situation. You know, then it's the number one priority has to be, there's a number where he can stay and then there's a number that his agent that's told me can definitely get him on the market. And it's gonna come down for me, it comes down to what does Sam Bennett want? I talked to Sam right after they won the cup on the ice and again the emotion of the moment I'm sure but he couldn't see himself in another uniform is essentially what he told me but he also just want to come so you know it to me

comes down to the player because I think his agent Darren Ferris has told him that if they go to market he can go get him 10 million a year somewhere else but there's no 10 in Florida so you know how much does the extra dough matter to him, especially when he considered tax free in Florida. He kept referring to his teammates as his brothers that night. And you know, it was pretty, if you really listen to him, you know that where his heart is. him where his heart is. But he's also never made big money, so you keep kind of in your head going back and forth as to what's going to trump what here in terms of the decision. But Zito went until June 30th at midnight to get Reinhardt re-signed last year. You guys remember I was tracking it and he went right down to the wire as far as being able to get Reinhardt eight years.

And I suspect this one will go down to the wire either way as well. Pierre, I know Jerry, our buddy doesn't really think it's an issue, but like you, you mentioned numbers for Bennett elsewhere. Like, what are other GMs saying about the tax? Like it's, it's gotta be a factor. No. I mean, it honestly depends on the player. Oh, like there are players that get here and realize that a million here, a million there, but do I have a chance to win a cup? You know, I mean, all those things play into it.

Um, and so one of the interesting things that's happening now is that a lot of the non-state tax teams are also teams where you can win a cup. So they're intertwining, which is why they populate so many lists of these three agents. But I don't know that I'm ready to say that's the number one thing for every single player because it does vary when you talk to agents from conversation to conversation. It really depends what a guy's looking for and I'll give you an example I think if Brad Marshawn leaves I think in his case and I think we all agreed during his peak years in NHL he ended up being pretty underpaid for the kind of player he became he signed that extension too quick years ago in 2016

and so I think for him you know even though we won another cup, I think for him it'll be more of the total dollars, like who's ready to really step up here. And so if he can get a four-year deal at north of eight million a year at the age of 37, I think he'll take that in a lot of different places, not just the places where I was here about. So Matt Dushne signs that deal. Do you think it'll have a lot of impact on John Tavaris' deal as far as them being the same age, all of that type of stuff?

I mean, what do you make of it? I'm sure Radt's here living wishes that were true. I know for a fact that unless there was a lot of term attached to it, there's no way to verify that you're 5 million here with the lease. It's going to have to be more than that. Now, the lease can be creative. If you're willing to throw term at an aging player, that brings down the AV for sure. Again, the total dollars matter more than the AV when it's your last crack at it, trade wise. But on a normal contract,

what I was told last week is that five was too low from the Tadara's Camp point of view. And I think, yeah, you have to understand that, you know, Deshaun in Dallas, no state income tax, blah, blah, blah, a bit of a different situation there. What's interesting though is that I would not have anticipated Duchenne was the first extension done in Dallas. I would have thought it would have been JV Ben who I still think will resign in Dallas. But what it's done now is when you if you take into account that you think Ben is staying and Duchenne's already signed, Gramlin's also UFA, but the stars need to move money.

They're right at the cap. In fact, they're the team with the least amount of cap space right now, the entire league as of today. You know, I think they'll try to trade Matt Dumba, who has a year left in his deal, at 3.75 million. He didn't play in the playoffs, but given how desperate teams are on defense, you know, maybe there's a market for him

to reset his career and be the better version that we've seen from him over the years, but they got to move money now, no question about it. Yeah, I'm curious about the Tavares stance because I believe they have the same agent, right? I believe Bresson is Duchenne and Tavares' agent. So you know, John can't play bomb a agent the surface on sign off on to shame four-part part by four point five

uh... and again you know they're both the same age neither of them have won a cop uh... dishing out a really good season adjust i don't quite understand how to well as some what uh... what for now what okay i don't know i don't quite understand how. Well, but what's the what's four and a half in Dallas? What? OK, I don't know. I guess the five and a half to six million. Is to Shane getting endorsements in Dallas like John is, as it may be.

But but this is being honest, you know, like that's the truth. Like, and this is what bothers people in Toronto is now at state tax, state tax. And then again, like, oh, said, yes, Batman, it doesn't matter. Obviously it does. And for John, you O said, you asked Betman, well, it doesn't matter. Obviously it does. And for John. You just answered the question, Pierre. Yeah. What's it worth here?

And that's the whole thing. Why would the Leafs or any of these other teams not, why play by those rules? And why not just say, I don't care about the tax and all that. We're the Leafs. You want to be here. You're from here.

Matt Duchenne's at 4.5, so are you. Like, why would they not take that approach? But it's not just about the 4.5. Duchenne did get four years. Yes. So that's not nothing. Okay. So what is it?

Do you get the impression, well let me ask you this, quickly, do you get the impression the Leafs are comfortable with a long-term deal with tomorrow. So do you think they prefer short? I think they would have preferred short when the conversation began but the longer they're willing to go the AV comes down and so this is easy for me to say because I don't have to live with the contract but if I were the least and I'm trying to maximize the next couple years I would go longer and bring the AV down so you have more cash space to play

with. Which is basically what they did with Chris Tannin. I mean, I don't know that everyone expects Tannin to play the final year of that deal, but you never know, he might. You know, we're seeing players play longer and longer, the quarterback is going to come in for another year. But my point is, I would go as long as I feel comfortable with on Taveras to bring down the AED for sure.

And that's how you bring it down. I think that Taveras is ready to do that if there's more term. And that's what brought Deshane's AED down. If Deshane signed a two-year extension today, if you wait north of four an app, I mean the total dollars matter here at that age when you're 34 years old. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So that's 18 million total. Yeah. Maybe a six-year, three million per for John. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. I'm joking Pierre. I'm not gonna hold i i i i was i was letting yourself uh... hang with the dead air on the house and i don't know if you have

yes uh... uh... with her brother to a son hockey insider so mcdavid spoke today units you know his contracts that's gonna break i would assume set new records in terms of a cap it you know if he could be talking about a guy to write his know, and he can you talk about a guy that can write his own ticket Obviously he can he'll get whatever he wants

Where is your like when does the radar start going off for you between now and game one of next season if if and when he Hasn't or has signed a contract extension. Yeah, I think that's the conversation of the day for sure since he spoke to it today Really for the first time because he was never really, you know, it was never really appropriate to talk to him about the future when he was trying to win a cup. But today was the day and I thought he addressed it pretty well. My understanding from, you know, from making other calls, everyone involved, there is no predetermined timeline on how this gets done or not. That's number one.

Like they haven't, it's not like they met three months ago and said, met three months ago and said this is our target date. None of that has happened. Obviously there's been dialogue, but they all agreed they would wait until the playoffs would end before they got going. It's similar to what happened with Dry Side all year ago, if you remember. So my point is July 1st is not very significant, even though that's the day that McDavid could sign an extension legally for the CBA, that should not be circled by Orler's fans or any Octofan, because I think this is going to be a multi-layered conversation. Before they ever even get to a number or to map on a new extension, they're going to have lengthy discussions about the vision

for the team going forward. You know, McDavid and his agent John Muldover are going to want to hear how are they going to, you know, like what are the ideas to make this team better and get over the final hump. Those are really, really, really important discussions that first have to be had over the coming weeks before they even get into faith to which is What does a new contract look like now? I will say my sense of it is that? Nick David is looking for reasons to extend and not for reasons to leave But he still has to have that first conversation, and you never know how that conversation go

What does the reason mean though Pierre like does that mean he wants to see what the roster or the GM's gonna do with the team coming up? That's a lot of pressure on Stan Bowman. Well, best player in the world. You know, he's gonna want to know what he's committing to. So, and because of that, oh, and Brian, like, I don't, like, if he shows up to training camp in September still not being extended, I don't like if he shows up the training camp in September still not being extended I don't think people should freak out like I I'm not saying it's gonna take that long I'm also not guaranteeing that he extends at all. I'm just saying that if he does extend you know Everyone involved knows that this may not be one of those things that happens in July that this may take a while and I don't know

You know And listen, we know the agents jumbled over. I don't know, you know, and listen, we know the agents jumbled over, he didn't get Austin Matthews extended until August, right? A couple of years ago. Dry-sidle didn't extend until September 3rd, took all summer. And like I said, if McDavid shows up to camp

still not extended, that's not out of the world, like, you know, that could be in in players. So it'll be fascinating. There are other teams watching with incredible interest in the matter, waiting to see how this plays out. I think that it's not everyone that gets to get in that conversation if that ever came to be. I think they're talking LA, New York, Chicago, certain sexy big market teams. I don't know, maybe Tampa, maybe Dallas, but it's not like 20 teams will be able

to get into that conversation if it ever came to pass. But for now, my sense is this is about extending with the Oilers at some point in time here if everything they hear is what they want to hear. How proactive do you think the oilers management will be in dealing with their roster immediately or do you think they'll sit back and kind of let things unfold? They've got some decisions to make and whether they're goaltending, addressing some of the holes and do you think McDavid's camp will be whether goaltending, addressing some of the holes.

And you think McDavid's camp will be, at least kept abreast of some of those moves or thought processes along the way. For sure. Yeah. For sure they will be. Yeah, no, I think there's no question. I mean, obviously having Bouchard's

a very important contract to get done. I mean, you don't want to get off a sheet to get an agreement in summers in a row. So what's the number that makes sense there? The goal-setting is an interesting one. I think philosophically, the Orlers this year were comfortable basically only having $4 million spent in goals so that they could spend the money elsewhere. But now that they had two different goalie switches and it sounded like a final and didn't get the saves they needed, which by the way, I don't think is the meat of the

story there in terms of Florida beating them, but it's certainly part of it. I think they have to ask themselves if they're comfortable in goal. And if they're not, if they want someone to push Stuart Skinner and to a higher degree, that's going to cost more money on the cap that you hadn't budgeted for last year. So some pretty pertinent, I would say, soul searching questions for the orders who are close. I mean, there's not a team in the league that would have beat Florida in a cup final, in my opinion.

I mean, it sounds silly to say because obviously that back to these reach in that file But I mean if they would have some weird exhibition series where everyone gets a crack at them. I think Florida beats them all So I think yeah, but be careful. You don't overreact if you're the end of the Norse That you got out class in the final and yet there's some important questions to answer Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of that reflecting going. Edmonton, Carolina, Toronto, Tampa, you know, like Florida. Right. Went through them all and they're all really good teams.

They all had cup aspirations and they all, you know, left early. You know, it's funny, we always say this cup or bust, right? So define bust. Like does that mean you blow things up or do you just go right back at it well and you know I hate to make it all about the least but I am on overdrive you know the least I'm not being the only team to push Florida the distance right I'm sure that came up with you guys Respect in the handshake line. That's the new Put up the biggest fight

Well, I mean not much of a fight in game five and game seven never lost beat the Panthers three times Which no one else was able to do I'm just saying retrospectively if you're the least now you're being forced to play a certain hand with Marner anyway, so change is coming but You're being forced to play a certain hand with Marner anyway, so change is coming. But if you, I'm asking you three, if you were at Tree Living now, having seen how Edmonton got this mantle even more easily than your team, what does that tell you, where you are at the least? Well, I think you can look at a number of things. One, maybe you feel good about the coach, you feel good about you got your two goalies,

you got your defense relatively set. You know, we always focus on core four, core four, core four. But, you know, this is where it'll be intriguing to see if they lose Marner, which they're going to, and if Tavares, it doesn't come to terms, and they move off him. And then all of a sudden you get a lot of money,

a lot of flexibility, and a team that will look and feel different. Whether they'll be better or not, we don't have that answer. I don't know, but the Leafs were a really good team. They've been a really good team for a long time. Like they got through Ottawa, like you said, they started the series great against Florida. We had Brian McCabe on.

McCabe said after game six flying back to Toronto he was nervous like the right at least played really well in that game so I don't know I mean Florida Florida humanized McDavid dry subtle Kuturov like he did this they did the same thing to make Matthews and Marner and Tavares and Neelander but they're still gonna be there next year. So I think the one thing You could argue that Bobrovsky had you know three bad games in the playoffs one was against Carolina and two were against the Leaps Did he had a bad one against Edmonton?

Not really. Yeah, he had a couple bad goals, but probably not bad games Yeah, but like those first two games, but probably not bad games. Yeah. But like those first two games against Toronto, I mean, he was not good. He didn't play well. Yeah. Now, Stolars got knocked out too. If you want to play that game, you can play the Stolars didn't play, and maybe Stolars makes big stops in game seven, and it's tied.

You know, that's the thing. I don't know. Like, I don't think we're going to have a full understanding where the Leafs are as a team for next year by the end of our show on July 1st. I think the Leafs are an example of a team that's going to need the entire off season to see what the opportunities are. So they may do something more significant in August than they do in the next month, depending on how things play out here, given how active I know tree living

is on the train market and calls. These things don't really have a deadline. These things may need to play out. But I think the goal, and this is going to sound funny to say this, but I think the goal for the Leafs is to show up at camp and believe that while they may be a less talented team without Marner, maybe they're a better team by the end of everything they've tried to accomplish this summer. Whether or not they can accomplish that,

I'm not ready to guarantee, but if that made any sense the way I put it, I think that's the goal and You know, I tell you one guy I would have no problem again going back to term and overspending I would I would bring Bartmarsh and it's wrong. I would do everything I can I know there is interest within the lease run office to explore that the problem is, you know lots of teams are gonna be phoning but But again, that's you know what you're getting with that

guy. Well, and hanging over all of it too is that Matthew Nives is going to need a deal. You know, in two weeks, technically, he could sign an offer sheet. Right? Yeah. Who's his biggest comparable in the league right now? Oh, weren't you talking about, who was it? Was it Mercer? No.

Was it Mercer's deal? Well, Dawson Mercer is a guy that would be a comparable type, but he's probably like the hell with that guy. It's like any other thing, Jamie. The team's going to have some comparables on the low end and he's himself is going to have some that are skyrocket. What his high-end comparables are, I'm not sure, but I guarantee you they're not making like 4- 5 or 4 7 5 Whatever Mercer's making well and ironically enough. It feels like Tavares factors into this again

You know he signed first and then it was Willie Mitch and Austin said well You gave him 11 and if you give him six or seven knives is probably like well I'm better than this guy right now. You know or I'm gonna be more important than him right now why would I take less than John Tavares it feels like we're going full circle here yeah I mean knives is RFA.USA and there's all those different marks. So are the other guys. Yeah yeah so are the three of them seven years ago and if I'm the least I want to go eight years with knives if I can just to not deal with this for a long time. But I don't know if they'll be able to do that. I get where there are contenders

sometimes that do bridge deals to sort of punt the ball down the road and allow them to be more competitive in the moment. But I'll give you an example. I understand why the stars did Thomas Harlan a two-year deal last fall. But that already looks like a scary negotiation. You've got a year left now with four million Thomas Harlan and you might be on the Olympic team in February. He's going to make some money, that kid. He's a good player. You might be better off bridging Nice just based on what do you think his ceiling is?

That's the thing. He had 29 goals this year, right? So is his ceiling 40 or is his ceiling 35, 32, like that type of thing because he wasn't he wasn't a prolific scorer anywhere, really, other than now he's gotten to the NHL and been more of a power forward that could score. So, you know, is it a product of some great passes from Marner and all of that? He's going to have somebody different passing than Lepach this next year. Yeah, those are all important elements to this conversation. Yeah.

For sure. All right, Pierre. Well, we'll see. We've got a couple of weeks coming. It's going to be a fun two weeks. Thank you for doing this, as always. Right on, right on. Yeah, we'll do it again next week.

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