OverDrive - LeBrun on the Canucks' roster turmoil, Matthews' injury clarity and the Canadiens in a playoff hunt

Episode Date: January 3, 2025

TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the NHL, the Canucks' downfall throughout the season, the Canadiens in the playoff chase, the Rangers' issues in the spotlight, Auston Matthews' injury concerns, if he plays in the 4 Nations Face-Off and the Maple Leafs looking to add a center and more.

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The smarter way to book travel. Here's Pierre Lebrun, a TSN Hockey Insider. Pierre, how are you going about, you know, checking in on Vancouver, covering the Canucks? Because it is a circus out there right now. Yeah. Are you saying that Christmas didn't help everything? I don't think so.

I'm not prepared to say that. Yeah. You know, it's one of those things that has simmered for a while, but in a way that you don't, especially for me as an insider, you don't want to talk about it in a factual way unless people involved want to say more, right? It was sort of just like sitting there. But now, I mean, they're talking about it publicly, right?

That, you know, that there are issues and they're going to try and work through it. But the reality is that it is an issue and it has affected their team, and, you know, I think it's given management a lot to think about potentially between now and the trade deadline, which doesn't necessarily mean anything will happen, of course, because you've got way too much experience at the helm there

in terms of President Jim Rutherford and GM Patrick Alvin. They're not going to do anything stupid, but, you know, I think Alvin was quoted this week as saying anything's possible, so read into that what you will. Well, I thought it was interesting because Hayes had brought up that this is almost maybe starting to boil into a New York Rangers situation. And a month ago, you didn't think it was going to get this bad for New York, where they're now one point away from the bottom of the Eastern Conference basement.

So, like, how does Vancouver make sure it doesn't get to that and they solve the problem as quick as possible before the season gets away from them? I wish, I mean, if I knew anything, they would know for sure. That's how tedious it is, man. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, you just, at the end of the day, there are teams that have, you know, found a way through this kind of thing because at the end of the day, you are pros and you're paid to play. And, like, not every team that has won has all been,

let's go out to the bar and have beers together. I don't know if players today even do that, but I'm showing my age. But, you know, not every team has been kumbaya. I mean, I've been around. I go to the Stanley Cup final every year, and I've been around teams where you know there's actually, you know, maybe some guys who are best of friends off the ice, but they find a way on it. So I think that's important to note.

But still, this is obviously something the conducts are working through and you know in the middle of all that i mean you you have a really good coach in rick tockett who who by the way his own deal expires at the end of the year although i think there's a mutual option for another year but i'm just pointing out some other layers to all this that are interesting um and certainly you have a management group that um has been extremely aggressive um you know since they've gotten there um and and normally aggressive in the manner in which they trade way before the trade deadline so last year you know alvin traded in true rutherford s style he traded He traded for Elias Lindholm on January 31st,

way ahead of the trade deadline. That's the tradition there, going back to Rutherford and Carolina and Pittsburgh. And in Pittsburgh, of course, Alvin was there as an AGM. So it certainly wouldn't surprise me if Vancouver found a way to do something here this month and not wait until closer to March 7th. With Pierre Lebrun, our TSN Hockey Insider. Confirm or

deny, Pierre, the famous game that we play on this show, and I want you to partake here. Confirm or deny the Montreal Canadians are legitimately in a playoff race. I'm going to deny, and maybe it's just

that I'm trying to back my preseason take on them when you have to be Hayes I didn't think they were ready for that and so maybe I'm just you know unwilling to change my take I do think that the opportunity is there for them to play meaningful games in March which honestly deep down if that's happens, I think everyone involved there would take it, even though the playoffs are obviously what they would rather have. But, you know, they have turned around their season. And it's not just the recent stretch. I actually was at the game in Tampa where, honestly,

they dominated the Lightning last Sunday. But it's really a longer stretch of games that kind of, in some ways, went unnoticed because it wasn't flashy, and there were also some bad losses, like the one at home in Pittsburgh. But in the midst of that stretch, they have been, you know, above 500,

you know, playing more consistently. Their best players have finally found their game. You know, their best players are not very good in November at all. Obviously, Montombo is having a terrific season. But, you know, they're, I mean, listen, any team that sweeps the state

of Florida and wins in Vegas these days is having themselves a road trip. No kidding. No question. I mean, since Laine returned, they're winning a lot of games. Yeah. And I don't think they're ready either. I would deny it. I would answer it the same way, Pierre.

And the way they started this season and defensively, they were awful. Like, they were the worst defensive team in the league for the first 20, 25 games. And now they've, to their credit, they could have packed up shop. They did not do that. Now, there's still a lot of season left. We'll see what comes of it. I don't think they're going to be in the playoffs. But the Habs are three points out of a playoff spot right now. Yeah, there's tons of teams in there.

It's a bit convoluted. But yeah, no. Credit to them. What they've done is given the rest of the season meaning, which honestly was in doubt six weeks ago. Absolutely. And the other thing is I like the way management has approached this too. I mean, the trade for Alexander Carrier from Nashville I think was timely.

Justin Barron had really struggled, and they were already one of the youngest blue lines in the league, and they just couldn't defend. He has really stabilized that right side, and I think it's allowed David Savard at his age playing the right amount of minutes. I mean, that was a really timely and shrewd trade for a Carrier player that is a dependable second-bearing guy. Had a really good year in Nashville last year.

So, you know, so that was timely. And the other thing that's interesting, I don't know, you know, you guys believe in this stuff or not, but when Multalvo was named as uh as part of the four nations roster for canada i mean listen that he was blocked you know aiden hill and jordan binnington were penciled in earlier by management and they there was a lot of debate behind the scenes on who to go at number three and understandably so i think we we had a similar debate on this show. But ever since he's been named, look at his numbers.

It's almost like he went, hey, you guys aren't going to regret that. You know, to me, I think the opening night starter is probably Aiden Hill at this point based on play, but I know that management and coaching were going to wait until literally a couple of days before February 12th to make that call. But I'm telling you what, the way Mo Tomlin was playing, he's making a case to actually see games, I think, at the Four Nations. Pierre, usually in a situation like New York,

if it goes on and on and on and on, eventually there's a coaching change or there's something big. Why do you think no shoe has dropped like that for a team in that position? Well, how can I explain almost anything that's happened with the Rangers this year? It's one of the strangest stories, that whole thing this year. Like, this is a team that was two wins away from the final like a final six months ago.

Like, are you kidding me? And legitimately so. Not like Cinderella's story went deep. No, like a team that had built to get to that moment right and arguably has the best goal in the world and and was deep and i think a lot of people picked them this year to go to the finals uh if not win it um and so honestly one of the great surprising disasters that we've seen in the last decade plus in the NHL. Like where no one would have seen this coming. It's really bizarre.

And, you know, starting with how negative the team reacted to the leak to Mambo from Chris Jury to other GMs about Kreider and Truba being available. Like, you know, if that was supposed to shake up the team, it did the complete opposite. Yeah. It's just, and so where does it go from here? Yeah, listen, I hate that firing the coaches.

I was a low-hanging fruit. I've said that many times. You know, I think it's become a lazy thing to do in this league because I guess there's nothing else you can do. Trades are hard. But I am still, having said that with that context, surprised that P.L. Avelette is still behind the bench just because, honestly, it looks like the team is not responding whatsoever to him and that happens to

a lot of great coaches at the end of their tenure but to me i am surprised um that he's still there a lot of it maybe is they were on a long road trip but they're home now so um honestly it is it is surprising to me with pierre lebrun, our TSN Hockey Insider, Austin Matthews spoke with the media yesterday and conceded that he's playing through some pain and that he's not certain he's going to feel 100%. At any point this year, he's hopeful, but he's not certain that that'll be the case.

It's obviously quite the story in this town, as you know. How do you think, yeah, this is going to affect what Bradtree Living and Company could do between now and the trade deadline? Yeah, well, I mean, I think they were looking for a center anyway. Jonas would probably testify as well. But, I mean, obviously, this probably gives a greater urgency. But, you know, and I read Jonas' story, those quotes in it yesterday. I think what it does to me is having it come straight from Matthews legitimizes the kind of concerns we all had, everyone on area,

that something isn't quite right and in and out of the lineup. And, you know, why can't, you know, why is it so difficult to put a finger on this thing? Those are legitimate real life concerns when you have this happening to your best player. And, you know, again, I think we have to be careful because none of us have, you know, medical degrees, don't know what it means for the rest of the season.

But again, I'm going off based what Austin said yesterday. you know, medical degrees. Don't know what it means for the rest of the season. But again, I'm going off based what Austin said yesterday. If that doesn't give you at least a minor level of pause, then you're not paying attention. I think it has to be of concern. And not that Leaf fans have this at the front of their minds, but as a guy that, again, thinks of these things maybe a little more league-wide, it does make me wonder about Four Nations now for Auston Matthews. Where is he going to be at health-wise, and how does the Leafs feel about it?

And all these different delicate conversations I think that may be coming. Listen, I think ultimately, you know, I'm sure he gets himself right and he's fine. But again, when the player himself answers those questions that way, and Jonas, you can maybe relay the body language for me, but if you're not concerned, then you're not paying attention, I guess would be my point. Yeah, it felt like he was trying to be optimistic

and feeling good about getting back in practice but you could also feel that wave of like i don't really know like i i want this to be better but i i don't know if it will be which is concerning yeah like he didn't he didn't come out and say like i'm going to get over this this is going to be fine i guess is what you're asking right and. And the thing you hope that never happens, and again, this is probably the stupidest thing ever that I'm about to do because every player's injury is different than another player's injury.

But, and again, the Leafs haven't come out and said exactly the nature of this injury, although I think we have a certain sense of it. But I'm just going to give you another player, and again, I'm not saying it's the same injury. Of course not. But I'm just going to give you the player, and again, I'm not saying it's the same injury. Of course not. But I'm just going to give you the worst-case scenario

of something that is scary, and it's that the Vegas Golden Knights never quite know how long Mark Stone will be in their lineup now. And, you know, you certainly hope that's never the case here with Matthews and the Leafs. I don't think it will be, but I'm just giving you, let's start at the most positive, which is when he's back, he's back for the rest of the rest of the year we never talk about this again i think that's very possible

but the worst case scenario is you know is this one of those things that comes and goes i don't know that i honestly don't and by the sounds of what matthews himself said is he he sounds positive that he's gonna get past this but i guess he's allowing the door open by saying i don't know that's what i'm bracing for yeah well. Well, Per, is there a time, like you mentioned the four nations, is there a timeline for when he would have to let the Americans know, like, I'm good to go, or I'm going to bow out? Like, do you know what that date has to be, like to drop that date? No, there is no hard, fast rules for that. I mean, listen, technically a player could get injured the night before the break

and need to be replaced, just like it happens for Olympics when NHL players go to the Olympics, right? So there is no but. You know, I think everyone involved, at least Team USA and Austin Hull, at some point I would think, you know, by late January, early Feb, would have to be on the same pager as to what it means because let's face it for Team USA, oh my goodness.

I mean, I don't know who's next on the list, but he's not Austin Matthews. No. I don't think he can play. I think I'd be shocked if he plays. Me too. I'd be shocked. And I think if he does play, that opens a whole other conversation that we will have if we have to have.

But I think it would be silly for him to even entertain the idea of playing. And I've reached a point, because this is now Chapter 2, where I think what you just said about Mark Stone has already been established. Pierre, hopefully he returns next time and just plays it out. Remember, we had these conversations, different context, Ilya Samsonov last year. Were you ever going to be completely out of the woods with him? No, you weren't. Hopefully you would get back

together and play well and it would be all good. But I think if Austin did the Germany trip, time off, came back, looked like himself, then it would be over. The fact that he's doubling into this again and we don't know when he's going to come The fact that he's doubling into this again, and we don't know when he's going to come back,

and now he's like, I don't know if I'm going to feel 100% at any point. For me, the framework's been laid. You're always concerned this guy is a game away, a hit away, a practice away from more time off. To your point, this season. The injury in camp, September 24. Right. That's a long time ago. January 2ndnd we've been dealing with this for a long time yeah so i don't think you can put the cat back in the bag in terms of just saying oh he's fine that's it all good you can hope you just but i don't

think that i don't think that's a reality anymore yeah and. And to be fair, I mean, again, I've not talked about this with anyone associated with Matthews, but the Four Nations isn't the Olympics either. Exactly. It's not quite the same conversation. I mean, when it comes to the Olympic Games, I mean, different era, I guess, but Steve Eisenman played on one knee. It felt like City for Canada, as you may remember. Yeah, he had won Cups by then, too.

Yeah. So, in a way, I mean, the Olympics are something where players will obviously play at less than 100%, because it's so special and unique. Four Nations isn't that. But it is certainly the first best-on-best in a long time,

and it's Matthew's first opportunity to play a best-on-best first country. Which is significant, and it would suck for anyone to have to miss that. I'm not downplaying that. That would suck. I'm sure he's really jacked to go. Well, Pierre, how do you think that conversation would work? Would that be just a

conversation between Austin, his camp, management, and then they just make a decision? How does that usually go? Yeah, Austin, John Moldover, his agent, Brad Treeliving, Craig Berube. I think you have that conversation in the Leafs bubble first. I don't think you enter Team USA into that until after you've gotten to a place.

I think it has to be a Matthews-led conversation with management and coaching at some point. And it probably can't be had yet because, again, once he's back here, who's to say he won't be back for good? I mean, that's the difficulty in all this. We don't know either way. I would think they're having it now, no? I would think you're starting to talk about that, no? Well, I mean,

Brad Treliving's at the World Juniors, so I guess physically everyone has to be in the same place to have it, right? Doesn't it have to be Austin? You're the captain of the team. He has to walk in and say, I'm not playing. It can't be Brad Treliving trying to convince him.

That's not the way the Leafs operate. Well, I didn't need him to say that necessarily that's a completely different conversation but the way the leafs who generally operated especially with their best players is they they afford them a lot of luxuries and a lot of freedoms and a lot you know they treat them very very well and i think all right i don't i can't speak for them i don't know how tree living and shannon and let's be clear ownership who's paying him more money than any player in the league he's the highest paid guy in the league yeah like that that is a factor here too you're paying this guy a fortune to play for the maple leaves ownership would factor in but this is your ninth season you're the captain the year's not

going well for you individually because of injury the pressure to get it done in this window is immense. I don't think it has anything to do with Tree. If it's a scenario where Tree Living is trying to convince him, you're in trouble. No, but I just mean it's a conversation between them. I know. Like, Austin, what are you thinking? We're thinking maybe you shouldn't go.

I don't even think they need to say that. By the way, Georgia is finally on the board with a touchdown here. Yeah, Notre Dame's rolling, man. Not SEC. They're like the Cowboys down there. with a touchdown here. Yeah, Notre Dame's rolling, man. Not SEC. They're like the Cowboys down there. It's not good. Hey, hey, hey. You know, but the other thing, again,

is that the only examples that we have during our careers covering hockey, best on best, are dated now. I guess what I'm saying is the last time we had this kind of conversation about a star player in a best-on-best event would have to go back to the 2016 World Cup. And I can't even remember if there were any injured players. I think so, because I think Canada had an injury replacement late. But anyway, yeah, I think Logan Couture came in late or something.

Anyway, but my point is there's no real point of... This is kind of uncharted for this era of superstars. They've not had this experience in front of them. So it's hard to say, well, this is how it usually happens. But we don't know now with these guys. They've never had this on best. So, yeah, listen, I'm not going to lie. The second that I saw the news that Austin was out again,

I immediately thought of the Four Nations ramifications just because I'm so excited to cover that tournament. Obviously, in the perfect world, I want him there. Yeah, for sure. We'll see. No, it's tough. I mean, and it's emotional because he hasn't had the opportunity. I'm not downplaying it.

I mean, I'd love to see him play in it. I think it'd be great. As a Canadian, I don't know how I'd feel about him competing against Canada, but that's the reality. It'd be cool to see him versus Marner. Absolutely. It would be amazing. In a perfect world, that's going to happen.

Fun to cover. Yeah. But it's not a perfect world, unfortunately, because of the season and because of what's happened and the injuries. It's not the Olympic Games. That's another part of it. And by the way, just as a side note, knock on wood for Don Sweeney and John Cooper,

and I just actually had a piece this week. I sat down with John Cooper in Tampa, and man, has he jacked up about Four Nations and the Olympics, guys. If body language could scream, I mean, John Cooper is all in for what this means to him and his career and what he wants to do for Team Canada. But knock on wood, it's funny because when Canada's roster was announced

and, you know, you never please everyone in this country with a 23, one of the things I kept saying is, well, there's lots of time between December 4th and mid-February, there'll be injuries. Well, there hasn't been for Canada. So I wonder if some of those bubble guys, obviously you're hoping there aren't because that would be the ultimate. But it's kind of weird that, you know,

we haven't had this discussion yet, team Canada-wise. Yeah. We'll get there, Pierre. We'll get there. We've got about five weeks still to go. All right. We'll leave it there. Happy New Year.

Thank you for doing this.