OverDrive - LeBrun on the Maple Leafs' hardship against Florida, Marner's clouded future and the team's future outlook

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun joined OverDrive to detail the Maple Leafs' failure of a performance against the Panthers in Game 5, the insufficient spotlight of the offensive struggles, Mitch Marner's future with the Maple Leafs, the trajectory of the team from series issues, the Capitals and Jets looking to stay a part of the run towards the Stanley Cup and more.

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Pierre, you were lurking around the rooms last night. Do you see William Nylander's attitude as, hey, it's only one game and we move on? Is that a positive or is that a negative in your opinion? I think in his first take I'll give him a break because that guy shows up I mean I just think he's a different cat and I wouldn't read too much into it myself I know there's disagreement on that today but I don't he's not a guy that I mean listen do you want him to score in that breakaway in the first period? That could have changed the game, right? But it's not like he didn't try. So he's not on my top three, four of guys that I'm pretty disappointed with after last

night. And let me just start, I mean, you were there, Brian, like I've seen a lot of games in that building since it's open. And that was up there for how surreal and just unbelievable really it was. Like, you know, I made this point post game, I'm sure you guys made it today. Craig Borube has been such a steady voice all year since he's come into this market. Like he's handled being a coach of the least in his first year as well, I think since Pac Wing, quite frankly. And last night, he sounded shocked

in his voice and his body language. Like I don't know that he knew what to say after the game. That's the first time all year I've seen that on him. Like, you know, he doesn't carry the baggage, right? That this team has. And I think that deep down, he's like, ah, these guys are over this. And then last night happened.

I think he was stunned. Pierre, how can we keep coming back to these massive moments and everyone was detailing last night's event as this legacy, potentially legacy game? Why is it that the performance of the best players always seems to be the same in those moments? I mean, there's no other way of describing Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner as the least worst players last night, because they were.

So why is that always the case? It's one thing to get a series to seven, but when it's really crunch time, they have that performance. And I detailed, it's either they choke and they can't take it, or they don't care enough to perform. And I'd like to think that they do care enough, so it's got to be the first. Yeah. It's hard to... Honestly, it's hard for me to put my finger on. I haven't, you know, listen, I haven't been in that situation like you have, but I can tell you what I've learned from guys who have won, from talking to them in detail and from getting, trying to get inside their brain. And there is certainly, I don't want to call it a trend, but there's a line you can draw

from one cup champion to another. The guys that I always seem to show up in the big moments, that, and this is going to sound so cliche, but that they want it so bad, they'd pretty much be willing to do anything to get it. Like, I mean, almost anything. And those are the guys that keep showing up every year and go deep in the playoffs and perform and have big numbers. Like, you know, look at the playoff numbers over the last five years for Big David and Dry's title,

for Miko Rantinen. You know, it's always the same guys showing up. You know, look at the core of that Florida team. I know Leafs fans hate this team right now. They hate them. I can tell because my job on this series for the Athletic is to write about the Panthers. I've got a bullseye on my forehead. You know, look at the contrast in the two teams showing up for the most important game

of the year last night. Look at Bennett and Kachuk and Ekblad and Barkov especially. Look at what they did last night that was that felt comfortable to them right from puck drop it was like all right we know this let's go that's how they look they look like they knew what they were doing so you know I'm not giving you a perfect answer Oh but but the guys that win share a lot of same characteristics at this time of year. Well they look laser-focused that's for sure and I'm curious where Marner comes into play because our mutual friend and colleague Chris Johnston had an

interesting article in the Athletic today. I'm gonna read one paragraph here quote, there's been a growing sense that the 28 year old winger wants a fresh start after enduring an avalanche of criticism for his team's repeated playoff shortcomings that's about to be released again here with serious force at the modern linemates austin matthews of a completely shut down the offensive zone but the stanley cup champs in the second round

now would suggest that mariner is possibly already made up his mind. If that's the case, then how could we be surprised that he's playing like this? If you already made up your mind that this isn't your team anymore, if that's the case, that would explain a lot. Yeah, and listen, I don't know that to be, you know, accurate for sure. I think what Chris was sharing is what I've also heard from other people around the league, that they, that's the expectation other people have about Marner and some of it is embedded in what other teams are hoping happens with Marner because they want to get their hands on him. So I don't know that Marner's camp, I know for sure

Marner's camp has not relayed this to anyone directly in terms of us. So I think we're trying to read between the two leads here. But if you ask me now, yeah, I think it's more likely than not But if you ask me now, yeah, I think it's more likely than not that he may want to leave, but I don't know that that decision has been made yet, 100%. I really don't. I think that it was always going to be determined, I think, after the playoffs and how the playoffs went. But let me reverse the question. I mean, we've been asking all year whether or not Marder wanted to stay.

I mean, after last night, it's a question that's more pertinent now whether or not the Leaf wanted to stay. I mean after last night it's the question that's more pertinent now whether or not the Leaf should even be making an offer. Absolutely not but the question is Pierre doesn't that performance and what he does in games five to seven make another team maybe a little bit weary before they want to handle did they not look at that or they just say we want Mitch Marner?arner the level of desperation that something's happened in the last two summer with the cap going up and and and and to take that from it

i can't i think it'd be easier to let the team that probably won't check in on marner before july first than the team that will i'm telling you it's unbelievable how many people ever all yet we're we're probably gonna make an offer we're probably gonna make an offer. We're probably gonna make an offer Look at the USA list Who would you have ahead of Marner?

Well, no, I'm on Listen the biggest thing you're right here because there's there's teams that are different stages, right? Like that's the other thing they you mandate from an owner going, make a big splash, but playoffs are the mandate. And maybe Marner is a guy that could help you in the regular season, get you into that playoff situation. That's the difference, right, Pierre? That creates the buzz on a lot of teams where there is a marketplace for him because he's a great player. And he has regular season success. I know we're talking about a negative game last night and all that, but I think there's a lot of teams that would throw a whack of cash at him to make a splash to try and get

their team to the next level. Listen, you guys can disagree with me. Noodles, I'm telling you last night's performance did not affect him financially one cent because that's the level of desperation with July 1st market. Like let's be real, are you kidding me? I mean, teams are gonna come hard at him regardless for a lot of the reasons you just said,

Noodles, that it's a marquee name and just getting into the playoffs. I mean listen, how is Detroit not going to make an offer? They're nine years out and they're frustrated. There's pressure on Steve Isenman to add a marquee name. I wish Chicago not picking up the phone. LA just changed GMs. Ken Holland, you know he's not scared to do stuff. I mean, a bunch of all Canadians have a cap room now. I think they're focused on getting a center, but I'm just saying the list is endless. And what happened last night would not deviate at all from teams looking at Mitch Marner

as a great player. It's just that he's wearing it here because it's deserved it. I mean, he's had a lot of poor playoff performances in the biggest of games. And here's what's interesting to me it wouldn't shock me if Marner does leave that he does this would try at least and insane of course but that he does get over the hump somewhere else at playoff time with another team perhaps not in the glare of his hometown and the reason I mentioned that is Mitch Marner played the biggest game of his career at Four Nations in Boston and I thought

he was one of the top three or four best players on the ice that night in the championship game. So why is that? Why was he comfortable suddenly in that setting in that moment? Well, I mean, obviously playing with McDave is fun, but he's playing with Matthew, so that's not a good answer. I don't know what the answer is, but he was sure good that night in Boston. Yeah, and you know, there's the Phil Kessel Example where Rutherford and the Penn so we just got to get him out of there and as long as he's not the man

Right, he can play great and I guess that that'll be the question and this is you know We don't you're putting the car before the horse because they still play tomorrow night, right? But that is like I there was never any dispute He was gonna get paid a fortune, but there is a big difference between getting paid a fortune from Chicago, the worst team in the league, and getting paid a fortune from Florida, a winning program. That is what I'm curious about. Does a winning program look at him and say, ìWe get him out of Toronto, we can make this work.

Like, cause that might be the theory, is that this, it's just local guy, nine years, it snowballed out of control, and there might be truth to that. You know, that it's just, it's snowballed completely out of control, nine years later. That it's just, it's too much, it's too daunting,

there's too much focus, it's too crazy. I don't know. And if that happens and he moves on and everything works out for him, good for him. That would be amazing. Well, I'm sure that if we had Mitch on with us and he was forced to tell us the whole truth, I mean, if he were to leave, if, if, you know, still min on, if he were to leave, I'm sure both Florida teams will be on his list probably Dallas and Speaking to your winning programs the problem with the winning program. They spent a lot of their cap Yeah, and I mean Dallas essentially spent their summer cap on me Coran to this so they've already done their joy for shopping but

Even Florida 10 now Florida may lose 10 Bennett You know they not been able to extend him so they may have some room to do something. But a lot of the places where probably a guy like Marner wants to go are places that won't be able to offer him as much as some of the other teams. So that's a decision they'll have to make as well if he goes to market. That'll be the question. And then beyond him there's so much more that could could happen and we'll get into that you know when that

because the reality you know when the the we still play tomorrow night so we'll talk about anything else that could take place but yeah you're right i mean the free agent crop it's mariner it's possibly bennett i'd have to look at it's bennett it's also eckblad like you're sitting there again these are conversations for another time but i'm like I know where you're going noodle I'm telling you I like these these two players you add those two players into You know the team that we're talking about every day. They look different like that that ECBLAB play

Oh, you talked about last hour that he plays for keeps man, and he can run a power play He can do all sorts a six foot five. It's a horse. Yeah, I mean, yeah, he's got edge. Don't forget, Jamie, he's six foot five every day. Yeah, and I don't know where it's going to end up with that squad, but I will tell you this, this was in my column last night in the athletic, but the one leaf ends in want to read. But when the Panthers were down two-nothing last Wednesday night, it was only eight days ago by the way to nothing least

I Chatted with that blood after the game guys and he looked at me straight in the eye and I wasn't cocky at all and he said They want to home gates now. We're going home. So what and he walked away and I remember thinking No, no, he believes that like he's not that's not a clip or a headline for him. That's like, are you kidding me? And they won three cents. I mean, I'm just saying like, if he doesn't resign in Florida and he goes somewhere else,

again, he's one of those championship guys that brings that swagger with him, right? I mean, there's a lot of teams that would benefit from Aaron Echbaut that way if he doesn't stay put. But you know what guys? I'm gonna tell you this right now. Who's to say there won't be a game seven Sunday? Scorsia-Vancorini.

Well, there could be. There could be and we'll be back down there, right? Anything's possible tomorrow night. Now that we're into the 6 p.m. hour, it's a positive hour. That's the kind of larger we're bringing. What was Hazy B's demeanor up in the press box, Pierre? Did you happen to catch note of it? I don't know.

Well, yeah, we were separated by Masters and CJ, so we weren't... Sometimes we sit together over the years, Brian and I, and it's probably better that we don't, because we just work each other up during games. But I would say it was very professional. Thank you. Very professional. Yes. I tried my best.

I tried as hard as I could. Very professional. Very professional. Yes. I tried my best. Very professional. Very professional up there. I didn't say he was happy. Yeah. But very professional. Well, I knew it was coming after the game. I'm like, all right, we're going, we're going to be talking about this.

Let's talk about this. Let's see what comes of it. What about the two tonight trying to survive Washington and Winnipeg? Do you think there's any likelihood that either team does it, both team do it? Where are you at with those two games tonight? Yeah, I think Carolina closed it out and I think the Jets win to extend it. I think the Jets are good at home and too good just to buy out in five. I mean listen, Conor Halliburke is not only in the process of losing the series probably to Jake

Ottinger, he might also be losing that arm-worn job in the Olympics, which is a complete other subplot which I'm sure he doesn't care about in the moment, but pretty fascinating. But I think the Jets are too good to end things tonight. They'll push that to another game. Yeah, that's an interesting point. I just, you're right. Sorry to jump in, but I just, the other thing too is I thought Vegas was going to push it to six.

It's weird. I can't get a read. I've been wrong on all these things to go, okay, that team's going to push back. That team's going to win. Oh, they're going to have a response game. It's bizarro world right now. Teams have found something and then just running through it. Like we were joking about it, Pierre, too, is McDavid was angry last night.

Like he won a series. He was chippy. I don't know if you saw his media, but it's just, you know, these guys, they've got a, they're on a mission, some of them. And it'd be interesting to see what Dallas, because Dallas isn isn't gonna go away. They're a hell of a team So, you know their thought process try and finish things off tonight Yeah, I you know Odds are we're gonna get a Dallas Edmonton repeat of the Russian Conference final and you know

What's fascinating to me about that rematch if we get it is that there's probably no two teams in the West that benefited more from simply days on the calendar going by to get here like Neither Dallas or Edmonton were really ready to start the playoffs and through no one's fault injuries You know the schedule was top at the end of the year. They just Both teams internally were like oh boy I wonder what we're gonna look like in the first round and Dallas knocks off a juggernaut in Colorado without East, can end and Edmonton of course comes back after they looked terrible to start the series against LA and finally, you know,

starts getting bodies back and, and pain and Frederick and all the pieces of the puzzle. Like the olders, what the olders look like right now, they haven't looked like the entire year, like for nine months, like they just arrived now. Now, you know you're a good team when you can basically waste the first six, seven months of a season and say, we'll show up in time. That's essentially what Edmonton's done. Again, because of injuries and stuff like that. But Dallas and Edmonton, one month ago, did not feel nearly as good about themselves as they do right now

No, and they they deserve to feel really good the way things are going man I got their feet up watching the game tonight and then More than likely it's gonna be Dallas Edmonton in the next round. All right, Pierre Maybe we'll see you down there on Sunday night Wouldn't shock me Brian. No, Okay? You're sniffing out a leaf wind tomorrow night. Is that what you're telling us? Well, I mean, I think it's just the most least thing to do in some ways is now that everyone's buried them and moved on to the offseason questions that they pulled out in South Florida. It would not surprise

you. Yeah. And then all bets are off for Sunday night. Drag everyone back in and let's see what we got on game seven Sunday night. All right Pierre enjoy the action tonight and tomorrow we'll do it again soon. Sounds good guys. See you. Pierre Lebrun our TSN hockey insider. This May iHeartRadio celebrates Asian Heritage Month. Discover powerful stories, vibrant cultures, and unforgettable music. Kiss me. From inspiring podcasts to playlists that span east, south, southeast, and West Asian artists.

We're honoring the voices shaping our world. Different parts. Listen now on the free iHeartRadio app. Baby, let me see it. Jelly be a bit. And at iHeartRadio.ca. Dynamite. Let's go.