OverDrive - LeBrun on Treliving's direction with the Maple Leafs, the DNA of the team and the future of Marner

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the Stanley Cup Playoffs, Brad Treliving's press conference standpoints, the change of the DNA, Mitch Marner and John Tavares' future in Toronto, the dynamic of the team without a president, Matthew Knies' desire to remain and more.

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Some restrictions and exclusions may apply. See participating stores for details. Here's Pierre Labrador, TSN hockey insider. Pierre, is Alex Ovechkin playing hockey beyond next year in the National Hockey League? Yeah, I don't think he's made that decision, but I think more likely than not, he is not. So I saw what happened there today. Obviously, the marketing side got tripped up with the hockey side there. But, you know, we've got a year left on his deal. And he's, his deal and he's up there as you guys just talked

about. So if I had to guess, I would say probably is. But I honestly don't think he decides that. I can tell you that I think the team is pretty embarrassed at what happened today, from my understanding is. You know, my sense of it is that it was an employee kind of acting on their own with good intentions, of course. But that was not a message from the hockey side for them to do that.

So, so not a great day for the Caps. But everyone's turned the page. But, you know, listen, I get what you guys are saying. I mean, he's built like a tank and he could still keep playing. I just, I just kind of wonder about the motivation pass next season in my opinion. That's fair What about the motivation of a guy named Jonathan Taze? Oh Good segue. I thought you were gonna go to old dogs 64. No There's a lot of people shooting down right yeah

didn't really shoot that there's a lot of people shooting it down right yeah nowhere close 84 80 okay okay cuz I once shot a 64 myself but on the front nine okay all right all right me too me too yeah no yeah Johnson pays you know I love hearing good news stories like this and Taze, as I reported, reached out to his agent, Pat Bresson yesterday at Noodles and said, I'm a go. I want to come back 100%. And, you know, I was just talking with the, with the team that, uh, that reached out to me after I put out the tweet and, you know, they were wondering, uh, where Taze was at. And what I told his team is the same thing I would say right now that you guys,

you guys have been around Jonathan Taze was at. And what I told his team is the same thing I would say right now, that you guys have been around Jonathan Taze. If he says he's 100% committed to come back next year, he's 100% committed. Like the way that he is wired suggests to me that he would not wanna waste anyone's time. That would embarrass him. He's been gone two years. This is a big challenge here, but he's been working out since the middle of winter.

The routine is actually calling Pat Bresson before the March 7th trade deadline checking on him. As of late season now, but Taze wasn't ready for that. He wanted to make sure he was 100% ready for the fall and made the decision yesterday that he likes where he's at physically. And Pat Bresson has indicated he's going to start talking to teams are at the Combine Buffalo coming up so what an interesting pick up for a team I mean you know this isn't a bank-ranker here because he's 37 and with two years away

from the game this can be one of those bonus deals that barely touches your cap and so you can put this guy in your third or fourth line if you're a contender and just I think reap the benefits. Yeah championship DNA. He's got that championship DNA Pierre and apparently that is what Brad Treeliving is looking for. He said the DNA of the Maple Leafs has got to change. What is your interpretation of that in terms of players leaving in terms of players coming in i tell you what the law of pressure and jones next because the segues between you noodles right now brad crushing it on fire these guys are professionals one of these guys is nominated for a canadian screen award yeah that's true i hate when we

bring that up he's a favorite yeah i'm a favorite i mean that's the only mention that every time I talk to him. Right. But you know, yeah, no, I mean, I was at the news conference today along with Jonas and CJ and everyone else. And obviously the money quote is the DNA quote. And you know, let's see what that means in action. But I think that was set on purpose and it came for context.

It came right after you talked about his disappointment in June 5 and gave him seven. I also think that he's in a position now to actually do something about it, not just because obviously Marner may force the issue anyway, in terms of changing the DNA, but because Shannon has gone and listed on the one hand, tree Living was crushed when Brendan Shannon was let go. Those two had forged a really close relationship,

and it took, I think it took Brad Turing a few days to get his head space in the right place because of that, but after meeting with Keith Pelley, and the one thing about where Tree Living is now is that this is his team more than ever, and he does not have the loyalty factor to the Santa plan or to anyone involved in the past. He can make this team whatever he wants.

And the personally he's gonna have to anyway. Well, so Pierre, perfect segue. Don Tavares, we talked about him earlier in the show and we all kind of noted that it was a little interesting that when Brad Tree Living was asked about it, he didn't like definitively say really anything like we want him back. We're like, did you find that interesting? Or do you just think he is kind of keeping his options and cards, I guess

open? So yeah, and it's a good question, notice. I actually clarified that with Brad Trillin after the news conference, and he did not mean that he wasn't interested in signing John DeVaris. What he meant to say, and I guess they come across clearly, is that he does not and will not comment on contract negotiations. The Lammerillo.

I think he got misconstrued, and I clarified that with him after. He was not commenting either way on where this was headed with Taveras and Marner. So I think Taveras ends up back as a Leaf. But what's happening right now in the off-season, the Leafs there at Pro Performance Center will have a huge impact on where this all goes. They've been in pro scouting meetings every day for a few days. And he's truly been one of those meetings before today's news conference.

He went back in them after today's. And they're looking at every single possibility around the league. They're putting up trade targets on the whiteboard. They're looking at life after martyrs. That's what happens. They're looking at what number works for Tavares, or if they can't sign him, how they replace him. They're going through all those mousetraations as we speak.

Well, all the four of us around this hit here. Yeah, so I guess, ultimately, the DNA conversation, in your opinion, or based on what you just said, is that simply Marner then? Like if Tavares is gonna come back, then the way the DNA changes is Mitch Marner, and it may not even be their decision, it's that Mitch just wants to leave.

So what does that accomplish in the end if Marner's the only guy that goes and Tavares returns and a lot of the core players are back? I believe you said earlier today, Morgan Riley's not going anywhere. He's not going to wave. He's not going to wave so I guess they're not even going to bother asking him. So you know listen Marner leaving is significant. I'm not downplaying that if that happens. If he walks that's huge. He's been here for nine years. He's a big part of the culture that they built here but in your opinion here would that is that enough like with that would that basically would that allow you to look back on what true living said today and give them the check in the box and say

okay accomplished that I would say let's let's re-examine this in September when when we're all back from shooting 64s every day in our golf case because you know I think I think by the end of these scouting meetings I think the Leafs are going to have a pretty aggressive game plan. I don't know what looks like that because they don't know. They're going through all the machinations right now. I don't think Marner's potentially leading is the only thing. I think the Leafs are getting involved in a lot of trade discussions to try and impact what they have here is my thought. And again, I think a lot of that is because

there's an acknowledgement from Brad Treeliving that has improved as this team was this year from last year. I think it really was under Craig Barutebay. It's still not good enough. And it's, you know, one of the acknowledgements from Tre today, I gotta be careful. I'm not reading too much into it, but I don't know what you guys think. He can't live in the fact that he's only been here two years and Craig Brewer

may have only been here one year. Like in fact, he leaves it to seven to Florida. Heck the least might've ended up giving Florida the puck of stuff. By the time this is all done, these playoffs, let's see. But that's not what this is about. If that was good enough, ownership went a fire burning to Janak. This is about nine years of DNA to get back to DNA.

And I think what Tree Living talked about today, to me, was the strongest I've heard him yet acknowledging the playoff starting and what transpired before he got here. I think he was worried about going there before because he was new and was trying to gain the trust of these players and so on. I think today he's basically saying, okay, I get it. I'm with you guys on this now. Do you think it was weird that Keith Pelly wasn't there? I mean, he did. Pelly did warn that the last Friday that that was their shot at him So I guess it wasn't weird to me if you're paying attention, you know, he's gonna have about one a year though

He's not gonna be allowed to keep belly news conferences You know, so I guess I'm not perspective noodles. I didn't think it was strange You know, they wanted to do it together last week and as truly explained He was back home for his daughter's graduation, which we all understand. They should have done it together, but the timing of all this, you know, wasn't controlled. It brings me, by the way, speaking of timing, to another point that is interesting with all this. If you go back to the start of Shanahan, is that, you know, Shanahan comes in and then one of his first big things is he hires Mike Batcock. Then he hires Lou Amorello.

And then if you keep looking at the lineage of all this, it's interesting that the hires between GM and coaches never quite line up. So like, like Trea Living now has two years left on his deal. Craig Borubei has three years left on his deal. Like, so it, dating right back to Shanahan, then Babcock, then Lamarello, then Dubis, and then Dubis of course fired Babcock, promoted Keefe. All these things have never quite lined up and Keefe lasts a year past Dubis, which is strange in some ways, right?

So there's actually an interesting line to put through all of this in terms of not quite lining up the hires throughout the organization which doesn't mean they can't. So it's just interesting. Can I ask all you guys a question? Sure. Is their setup now better? Because like I I understood and agree with the time had come for Brendan Cheyenne but now you just remove him. They're weaker because they don't have a strong hockey mind. I'm not sure that this is better. Like he's a, regardless of what you believe about Brendan Shanahan, his vision, all of that, he's still a darn good hockey mind.

Right, and someone for Bradshaw Living to bounce. He's not there. So now you're gonna call Keith Pelley and go, well, I'm gonna sign this guy or I'm gonna do that. And he's gonna go, go well, I'm gonna sign this guy or I'm gonna do that And he's gonna go go ahead. I trust you but Keith Pelly can't weigh in on the pros and cons of Yeah, no hockey right like you know like Brandon Shanahan does so I would be the first answer The organization is technically weaker today without Brandon Shanahan at least being a sounding board for Brad tree-living without Brandon Shanahan at least being a sounding board for Brad Tree Living. Well, and that's why my question to Tree Living today was how he felt now that he's met with

Peli a bunch of times, how he felt his day to day was going to change. And, you know, he was careful in his answers, as you might suspect, but I think he probably still isn't going off, is my guess. Like, I think, like, is he, is he going to Peli every day for updates? Well, Pierre, like, you know, you were at the skates like every single morning skate every practice Who was standing there together? Chan and Kelly like our chan and she like hell he's not gonna be there. They were very close Absolutely, and well actually the comment of the week I read on might have been under what underneath one of your stories Jonas But one of our athletic Jonas, but one of our

Yeah, well whenever athletic readers suggested that the overdrive Trio of hosts with my noodles. Hey, I know dogs should be should be the new president of Austin, Toronto, but brilliant I I like I should have retweeted that somehow. I Am I too technical? I don't know how to do it from the technology. Just tell tree living to to call these guys we want to do that and i have some that's the way i was right now that's right for those downgrade but but but they called the big one who bunch and i think i would be like it like a eleven years long time but the that the if if the least take that next step and and i don't like

brad children's going to be scared to be aggressive here. At the very least, and I said this at the onset, I think this is an important nuance. He's gonna miss Shanahan for all the reasons you just said, Little. Founding board and all. But he's also now freed of Shanahan's vision. Like, say what you want, but Shanahan hired Tree Living.

And from that moment on, two years ago, Tree Living to some degree is beholden to completing chanahan's mission statement that's just the reality and so now he's freed of it now freedom is uh you know that's a that can go a lot of different ways i mean it's you know yes be free to make make this your own team but now let's see what happens i guess well that's what it comes down to i mean if if uh again marner and savaris they're be free to make make it your own team but now what what what you have well that's what it comes down to i mean if if uh... again marner and savor is there the ones that are going to be highlighted between now and july first

but matthew knives will be a part of this conversation as well as he's a restricted free agent and i i don't think this is come up enough either with the dna of the organization were focused on the players in the room and games and all that. The organization needs to change their DNA also when it comes to propping up their own players and just paying them and overpaying them and never winning any negotiations. Like that's something that I think Brad Tree Living has to reflect upon. And again you talk

about the Shanahan shackles may be being removed that's this is an area where it should start right like we love you matthew nice we want to get something done we're not paying you a penny more than you get anywhere else and don't expect it because you're a may believe him because the other guys did got a stock it has to stop on he does have arbitration the summer so they can right we use but there is the one thing that's looming. Offer sheet? Yeah. Yeah but they can just match right. You're right but that's overpaying because somebody will overpay on an offer sheet. Yeah you're right. Yeah and I feel like

I'm the lone voice in the wilderness on that old subject noodle but the player has to be complicit in offer sheet scenario. I don't see any evidence of Matthew Nives and I asked him point-blank on his last day there And the clean-up, you know, you have to be complicit in that So bossy naho have to be complicit with an agent Jerry Johansson that they were gonna do that contract with the Hab just so that Carolina can map it. I mean, it's yeah, you don't just say a crocheted and I get it but my Yeah, you don't just say Akrashid in that. I get it, but my counter to that is, and I don't know who his agent is, and I'm just going to blanket this statement.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but if the agent wants to be a dink and go, all right, well you're going to tree your, you're locking it down, well we might have to look at other avenues because the agent could get in the year and go, okay, they want to pay you, you know, 4 million a year on a bridge deal, two years at four on a bridge. I've got a team that wants to offer you eight on a seven year deal or whatever. Would you sign that? Would you, you know, again, this is, this is an agent that's getting in the player's ear and believe me, agents do get into players ear regardless of what the player wants to do the player can say I

want to stay I want to do all this let's just work it out but when it comes to business there could be some stupidity here that's what I'm saying and then it comes down to I mean I think that's an eyes is completely in as a week so maybe I don't know young man well enough that I'm wrong about that but but I'll give you an example when I did that offer sheet with his agent, the same agent represented Braden Point who was also RFA that summer. And I can guarantee you that Mark Bergevin, who was GM of the Habs at the time, actually went to Braden Point first and tried to see if that was an offer sheet situation for Montreal. And the player was like, no,

I got a good thing going here in Tampa, I'm not messing with that. Even if it was just for Tampa to match, 3.1, no part of it. And so this is my point about it's fine and dandy as an agent to say, I got leverage and don't worry, you're not leaving the lease, I'm just doing this to get you money. You still got to get in the mental place as a player where you're willing to take that risk and they relate to fan base. And I don't know that Max United is, but the final point I'll make because I thought, Brian, you bang on about future negotiations here. I will say like trees, Brad Tree Living's first contract, major contract negotiation, if I got my dates right,

was Neil Andrew, which took a while. And it took a while because tree living actually did go pretty hard on that one. That was nasty at first between him and Lewis Gross in that negotiation. And I will tell you now that even maybe if the number didn't end up where you wanted, Brian, that's not a bad contract today, given where Neelander is in his production

and where the cap is going. So I guess I would say is I think that tree living right out of the gate tried to go down that route in terms of we're not just giving you what you want. Yeah, although I actually think his first one was Austin and it was blank paid, blank check. What do you want?

It was four years, never ate. You know, it was Matthews and Matthews took them to the cleaners. Good boy, good boy. But you know, leverage with your franchise. Well, well, or you could say, you know, do you really want to be here? Do you really want to win DNA culture? You know, you could do that. But well, dry settle did it and McDavid did it. And anyway, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. We're moving on. Not better at all.

No, not in the least. Moving on, moving on. Alright Pierre, good stuff buddy, we'll do it again soon. Oh man, I love it. Right on. Alright, see you guys. Pierre Lebrun, our TSN Hockey Insider. Unmistakably Canadian. I want a look in my eyes and you can tell that's true. Made in Canada delivers 100% homegrown hits. All day, every day. Carry my words.

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