OverDrive - Lewenberg on the Raptors' trade deadline outlook, the addition of Ingram and the direction of the team

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

TSN Raptors Reporter Josh Lewenberg joined OverDrive to discuss the Raptors' moves at the NBA Trade Deadline, the team acquiring Brandon Ingram and his role on the roster, the direction of the group with the additions, the outlook of a playoff chase in Toronto and more.

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There's our Raptors reporter Josh Lewenberg. Josh, now that we're through the the trade deadline in the NBA we know of what the Raptors decided to do. They're very active here. Now that the dust has settled a little bit, how do you react to the overall movement and decisions by Messiah's eerie and company? Yeah, look I'm surprised I mean I think what a lot of people expected myself included was the type of move that we saw today the day beyond Mitchell for

PJ Tucker who will wave buyout and some draft compensation using their financial wave buyout and some draft compensation using their financial flexibility to collect a few minor assets and nothing that was going to jump off the page or make headlines or blow minds like some of the trades we saw earlier this week that's what I expected that's what we got today certainly not what we got last night and yeah like the Ingram trade to me is it's still kind of shocking I think like it's clearly a bet on talent and Ingramism lack for talent that would be the sales pitch coming from somebody who doesn't like the trade. The argument would be a former All-Star, 27 years old

but the type of player that is hard to find and that the Raptors haven't had success recruiting in free agency. And even if they were able to recruit him in free agency, they wouldn't have had the cap space to sign him out right this summer. So you trade for his bird rights at a pretty reasonable cost, right? Like all things considered, you get them at a discount.

So the price was right. And I think like, if you look at it in a vacuum and without context you can say all right Reasonable trade you probably could have said the same thing about the yac and pearl trade back in 2023 But context matters the situation matters in the context here is this is a team that 16 and 35 in the first year first full year of a rebuild They've been preaching patience and staying the course, and this is not what patience looks like. It's funny because this is a team that for so long

was so reluctant to rebuild. They didn't wanna do it, they waited too long to do it, but they finally did it, and they were actually embracing it, they had a plan, it was a clear, decisive vision and path. Short-term pain for long-term gain, they were developing around Scottie and they were losing and they were planning on building through the draft. Whereas now, like, not to say that that can't all still happen, but it's just more complicated

bringing in this talented player who's good, maybe even very good, but not good enough to really, really move the needle in a way that they are gonna need in order to set themselves up for a championship caliber future, to contend, not just to be back where they were before the rebuild in the murky middle. And that's the danger here is if they're wrong, if this bet doesn't pay off, that's where they are. They're not in a rebuild anymore, and they're certainly not contending. They're back where they were in limbo and Masai Ujiri would have to wear that. So this is a big gamble and a big bet on their part and they're betting by the way on a guy

who hasn't played more than 64 games since his rookie year and has won two playoff games in nine seasons. Jay Lou, anybody in pro sports that I've talked to about a rebuild and the importance of what needs to happen, they all say the same thing at the top of the list. The most important element of it is not to deviate from the plan regardless of the temptation. So where do you think that that leaves the wraps? And for the casual fan that says they better still be taking for this season to get this flag added duke where is there standing in that

yet that that's a huge question here and what i think there are a few questions that are ultimately going to determine final judgment on this trade one is how they approach the rest of the season just in general but especially as it pertains to the availability of Brandon Ingram because he's injured right now because of course he is. We don't know a whole lot about the nature of this ankle sprain and a timeline for his return. The last update that I believe we got was from the Pelicans that he would be re-evaluated in two weeks and that was six weeks ago. So we're gonna talk to

Bobby Webster here once the trade calls have been completed and the trade is official and hopefully get some more information on what their plan is with him from like a health availability standpoint. If they tell us and if we see over the next few weeks the plan is alright, have them practice a few days and get them cleared and bring them back and then he's in the line up full go, then yeah that changes things significantly because it's going to be really really hard to tank. I think it would, look at the last 12 games, they won 8 of them. They're getting healthier and the schedule is getting easier and the remaining schedule is the

easiest in the NBA. So even without Ingram, the tank plan was going to be difficult, not impossible, especially once you start with the roster manipulation in March and April, this guy's got a sore back, this guy's got a sore knee, but it becomes a whole lot more difficult now, especially if your plan is to play Ingram. I assume that he wants to play, and I would assume that the Raptors want to get at least a brief look at him before paying him probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 million dollars a year over the summer. So the question is, can they slow players return and be selective with the games that he plays as well as the games that the other

starters play over the final few months of the season and do that enough in order to maintain their draft standing, their lottery odds, or just fifth from the bottom right now. It's going to be really, really tough because there are a lot of bad teams that have a lot of incentive to lose right now and if you've looked at the schedule over the last couple months of the season, man, it's cake. Like you're going to have to fit probably two or three of these guys in order to lose to the likes of like Washington and Utah and Portland and Charlotte.

And those four teams make up, I think it's 10 of the final 19 games. Oof, with Josh Lewenberg. And I guess, like I'm wondering if the question now needs to be if it was in the best interest to tank and go scorched earth, and that's a really, really difficult thing to endure, and I'm not sure how many ownerships would be willing to do it,

or at least be proactive and suggest they should do it. But if that was the plan, or if that was in their best interest, is it that Masayi Ujiri was just not the right guy to do that? Because it's become abundantly clear here, he just, he can't stomach that. Like the Pertle deal was the tip of the iceberg, he's shown his hand before. Like Masai doesn't wanna do it, he won't do it.

He's gone this far, I guess he's willing to stomach to this extent. But this Ingram deal came up and he's like, I have to do this, I'm a better team with him. And if he's willing to stomach to this extent but this Ingram deal came up and he's like I have to do this I'm a better team with them and if he's healthy he can score and he can bring something to the table also they're gonna pay him like I'm getting quickly flashbacks here Josh like he may not play and they're just gonna pay him and hope it works without even knowing if he works like all of this is on the table but ultimately it comes back to Messiah

doesn't it and whether or not he was the right guy if you felt like you had to go scorched earth and take three to five years to do this. There's some obvious comparisons between this and the Pertle deal that you mentioned. I mean, this is the second time in three years where the Raptors have been in prime position to chase a generational talent in the draft and instead decided to be surprise buyers at the deadline and trade a first-round pick for the bird right, the right to pay, an expiring player. So in that sense, similar sure, but the devil's advocate version of that is like I would argue Messiah actually showed the patience

that he's become known for with that portal trade in the sense that like he was clinging on to that post-championship core and that was just a means of extending it even longer than probably it should have been extended like I was saying earlier that rebuild should have started earlier than it did but it was like all right well let's take a look at this group one last time give them a center, give them a chance. The patience has been Messiah's calling card up until today.

What I would compare this to more actually, and I've mentioned this a few times, is the Rudy Gay trade. 2013, Brian Colangelo is sitting on the hot seat, and that team was going nowhere, and that was kind of his gamble, his last gasp, his attempt to and that team was going nowhere and that was kind of his gamble his last gasp his attempt to save his job was going up getting Rudy Gage similar situation where like Rudy was good not great a fringe all-star but

very flawed they didn't give up much to get him so I think they liked the idea that oh this is a discount we're upgrading our talent but he comes in and he clashed in terms of like skill set with the guys that were already here, Demar and Kyle and had very similar strengths and weaknesses. And the result was he stunted their growth and froze that team in mediocrity ultimately until Masai comes in and cleans up that mess. And I looked at this and said, okay, well, pretty clear now in hindsight why Colangelo felt like he needed to make that trade. He was clearly feeling the heat, clearly under pressure.

And I wondered to myself, like, how is Masai gonna handle this? This is not, to me, a Masai-Ujiri trade. This is completely out of character for him in the sense that he has always exercised patience. And again, this is not what patience looks like. But at the same time, we've never seen Messiah in this situation before. We've never seen him, first of all, under this kind of pressure or scrutiny

with the fact that they've missed the playoffs in three or four years and obviously the impending ownership change at MLSC. So maybe he was feeling pressure in that regard to get things turned around pretty quickly but we've also never seen him navigate a rebuild and to your point Brian like maybe he just didn't have the stomach for it oh you mentioned temptation and that to me is exactly what this is because you can justify this and I'm sure the team is going to for all those reasons that I talked about earlier Callen and all star in his climb and all of that that temptation is always gonna be there.

And Messiah was looking at quotes from last April when he was talking after the season. And he talked about the fact that there's gonna be temptation along the way, but they have to stay the course and they have to be patient. And here we are, like not even a year later and they're not able to stick to it.

I don't think this is ever gonna be like a Detroit Pistons rebuild or like what Washington's about to go through now. They're at a pretty fortunate spot where they've got Scotty Barnes and like I think this is only going to be this one year painful season, suck it up, get a good pick,

and then next year you try to push forward. It still might be that. They've really gotta find a way to thread the needle here and execute this over the next Few months and all of a sudden you got a good pick and you've got Brandon Ingram this index here Maybe that will make people feel differently about this trade. It would probably make me feel differently about it But for now, I'm confused and skeptical So with all that being said like when the dust settles and if this group is healthy

how competitive are they in the Eastern Conference? A middling team. And I might be wrong, like we'll see what Brandon Ingram can turn into. Like this is a bet on him getting healthy and staying healthy because to his credit, when he has been healthy before, he has looked like an all-star caliber player. Not perfect and that's the thing is like you're not just compiling a roster on paper. It's not just about accumulating talent. We've seen that before. We've seen it not work out before. So much of it is fit and timing. We talked about the timing and how it doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense but how about the fit too in the

sense that like really gifted score but does a lot of his work from the mid-range where right now Scotty Barnes and RJ Barrett operate he's not a great three-point shooter which they could really use one of those right now and he's not a great or at least not a consistent defender and they could really use one of those two right now so yeah like I'm not sure from a fit standpoint how this is gonna work. They've got a lot of talent on the floor. They're still pretty young and they've shipped out a lot of veterans today too. So I think they're they're better. They can be pretty good but like are they anywhere close right now to

pushing for even a playoff spot like like play-in, sure, but a wise man once said play-in for what? I'm not sure he still believes that. But yeah, I mean, I just don't think that that can be your ceiling. I think a lot of people, it's funny how things have changed over the last few decades, because I think at one point the idea of a team coming out and saying, oh, we're rebuilding, like there would have been uproar but when Masai Ujiri used that word and used it a number of times on media day people were happy people were relieved fans get it and it was too long too much like stuck in limbo and clinging to the remnants of their championship past they were

finally progressing towards something and building something that was actually starting to take shape. And that's the crazy part of this is like, it's not like the brief period of rebuild that they actually had was a disaster. It was successful. They were trending in the right direction. Things were coming together really well. The young guys have been showing strides and competing, playing hard under Darko, and they were losing games. Like even despite this stretch of eight wins and 12 games, they're still fifth from the bottom. So, so far, like they've checked off a lot of boxes this season. I don't see what was wrong with just staying

the course and playing out that plan even just for a few more months and then changing things up next year once they were actually ready. I'm not sure anyone feels like they're ready right now to be trading draft capital and one player away like that's that's not the team that they are right now. No it's not and with or without Brandon Ingram but listen the you know the glass half full I guess from an entertainment standpoint is when this guy plays he's a lot of fun oh yeah watch play you know he's a pure score like he said he's a former second overall pick and we'll see you know he's been laboring with this ankle sprain for two months so who knows when he's gonna play and how

much effect it's gonna have on the rest of the season but pretty crazy turn of events appreciate the breakdown as always thank you Josh all right guys talk to you Josh Lewenberger Raptors reporter