OverDrive - Matheson on Bieber making his team debut, Springer's lead-off spot and Scherzer moving up the ranks

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

MLB.com Blue Jays Reporter Keegan Matheson joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the Blue Jays, Eric Lauer's move to the bullpen and the impact on the rotation, the decent play against middling teams, losing momentum in their stretch, the Yankees' power in the spotlight, Shane Bieber making his Blue Jays debut, Max Scherzer's ranking, George Springer playing lead-off on the team and more.

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Fisrael License 12-616. Kegan Matheson, MLB.com, baseball insiders with us now. Kegan, welcome. How are you today, sir? I'm doing well, Jim. How are we doing? Good. So, I mean, I'm going to tip my pitch, fastball inside.

You were seated here last week with us. And I don't remember anybody ever talking about Eric Lauer going to the bullpen, but there he is. Is that the move you would make? We must have lost the audio, Jim, of me predicting that accurately. there you go okay but let me tell you this is surprising how they're structuring it but i do see the sense in it now that i've heard john schneider talk through it now that i've heard eric lower talk through it in that it's going to probably look different every single week and the best way to

look at it now guys is that there's going to be Shane Bieber and i would argue probably Max Scherzer who you prioritize you're going to keep Shane Bieber on his start day he comes first he's coming back from Tommy John, and he's really good. He's going to get first dibs on when his next start day is. Next week, Eric Lauer might not line up on that day. It might be Chris Bassett. Maybe Chris Bassett is

the guy available out of the bullpen for one week. Maybe after that it's Jose Barrios for one trip through. And in a perfect world, I think on Friday against the Marlins, they're up 100 to nothing in the fifth inning, and you can make Eric Lauer pitch the rest of the game.

Make it work that way. Keep it being a start. But this is really going to look a little different every week, at least for the first few weeks until somebody really stumbles. And I can see the sense in it. It's a little complicated. It's going to take some puzzles being put together, I think by John Schneider and Pete Walker, but it's an interesting approach, creative.

So, Kagan, what's your level of concern, the fact that they come out of Pittsburgh, having dropped two of three against the last place team? That's the fourth series loss to a last place team this season. They dropped two or three to the A's in July, three or four to the Orioles in July, two or three to the White Sox in July. I mean, they've been punching up to the good teams and playing really well against their fellow contenders, and yet they've dropped some games that maybe they shouldn't

against these bottom feeders. Is that bother you, or how do you explain it? It does for right now. You're right when you say they've been punching up with the good teams, too, and that's good because nobody sucks in October. You're going to be playing good teams, and they've been playing good ball against them, but you need to get there. You need to take these gimmies along the way. They did that in Colorado.

The Rockies are really bad, and they made them look really bad. But since then and around that series, guys, it's been pretty average, average baseball for the Blue Jays lately. And that's not who they are as a team. They are a better team than average. But we're seeing not a slump, not a cold streak by any means, but just failure to launch lately. because this stretch, and it's going to continue against the Marlins, continue back home against the Twins, who are another team that has sold off all of its pieces.

They're not going for the playoffs this year at all. You need to win these games. You need to win five of these next six because one bad series can really flip this back into a division race. I think the Blue Jays holding the ALE's lead for as long as they have now, these past several weeks, you get comfortable. You know, this is the way it's going to be. And even when the Blue Jays have lost two in a row, so do the Red Sox, so to the Yankees.

Nothing's changed really in that division race, but it can change. It can change really quickly and it can snowball. So I think the Blue Jays, this is life as a frontrunner. You need to stay out in front of people when they're chasing you. You're not chasing anybody anymore. The Blue Jays have spent a decade chasing the rest of Major League baseball. They haven't caught them. Now they're the team out in front, and it's hard to be out in front because you have nothing

to chase now other than your own lead and that's a little different than having the Yankees the Red Sox out ahead of you they need to get this kind of it's not off track but back on the track they were on kegan i've got a scheduling question for you so they played an early game uh Wednesday they don't play till Friday so what would the team do do they fly home Wednesday to get you know some clean socks then fly down at Tampa like what's uh what does that look like for the blue jays in their travel itinerary off night Miami which I think would have been well received from the players. I guess that turns into two off nights in Miami, which, look out.

Maybe have a little fun with off night number one. That would be my strategy. Big night, night one in Miami, maybe a round of golf and you calm down for night two and have a smoothie or two. But the Blue Jays, they typically don't go back to Toronto. So they stay on the road right into Miami. And a lot of guys live local-ish in Florida as well, either for tax reasons or lifestyle reasons,

but a lot of guys have properties down there. I'd assume a few of them would jump over to those. I bet you a lot of guys are on the golf course right now or just got off of it with a day off. Those guys like to look for a reason. But, yeah, a day and a half off in Miami after playing 120 baseball games with a few bucks in your pocket,

probably not the worst thing. So let's go back to what you're saying about sort of maintaining where they are. Everybody's chasing them as opposed to the way they were in the past number of years. What has to happen to keep them there? Like, what do they have to absolutely not have happened? They've lost their identity a little bit in these last few games. And I don't mean that to be big and dramatic.

But the Blue Jays are a great defensive team. We've seen that lose them for the last five, six days. They've made some uncharacteristic errors. They've gotten away from who they are as a baseball team. And that's going to happen to anybody. I mean, the Dodgers just lost to the Rockies. It's going to happen. But they need to get back to why they were,

winning. And that's a confidence thing. I think this Blue Jay's team does have. They're not surprised by winning. There are teams who go on these streaks and it's kind of, whoa, how's this happening? Let's keep this luck rolling. The Blue Jays believe, and I think they're right, that they're winning because they're really good. And they're winning because they are consciously being a creative offense that pitches really well and fields the ball really, really well. They just got to get back to that. This team is good enough. They're in first place for a reason, but some sloppy defense lately. The base running hasn't quite been there. A couple of tough starts as well, honestly, from the starting rotation, which is full of veterans. And you have not seen that big

offensive outburst recently against a good team or a mid-range team. So I think they're close. I feel like I'm doing my best John Schneider impression. I think they're close. I promise they're close. It's just an identity issue for the Blue Jays right now, not losing it by any means. They're just one inch off to the side. They just need to get back onto that path. I think the rate there, but this is the first time in a couple of months. We've seen them just struggle a little bit to get that momentum rolling because before it was all momentum through June, July, the most momentum in Major League Baseball. Then we saw the Brewers do that as well, and they fell off a little bit. They've just got to get it back. Speaking of a team that does not lack an identity, Keegan,

the Yankees, they truly are the Bronx bombers. I mean, leading the major leagues and home runs by a considerable margin just reeled off 14 home runs in two games against the race down in their spring training facility of all places. Now, how close are they, in your estimation, to make it a run here and making it difficult for the Blue Jays? You know, Judge has been hurt, and they've had their pitching problems, not to mention their defensive ones, but, man, are they mashing?

and it's getting a little intimidating, isn't it? Yeah, they've got a lot of problems, but they do one thing, damn well. They hit home runs. And when you do that, you can go in a hot streak just like this. And if you get into a postseason series and you're the Yankees, that's the beauty of home runs. You can do five things wrong,

but if you hit a couple of home runs, you win, and I'm writing a story about home runs. You forget about the errors. You forget about the manager and whatever thing he said that day. You forget about starting pitching in the bullpen. power can wipe away everything. Now, at the same time, the reason the teams aren't selling out for power like this, you could also get shut out for four games in a row.

But when you're hot, you're hot. And the Yankees have been there and done that. They know how this works. Nothing is new to them. And anytime they're getting hot, just a little bit of momentum, you need to worry about that. Same thing with the Red Sox. They have not gone away either. But New York, especially, guys, when we start to look at playoff matchups,

it's August 21st right now. In the September, every game after the Blue Jays, win or lose, we'll be saying, listen, they're three and a half up in the ALE East. If the playoffs ended today, blah, blah, blah. They'd be facing the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Astros. If they match up against the Yankees, the Blue Jays starting pitchers give up a ton of home runs. One of the highest numbers in baseball, I think only behind the A's still. That's a scary matchup.

I think the Blue Jays are still the better baseball team in most ways, but home runs are loud. Man, if you hit the most home runs in a game, you've got a real good chance. And the Yankees will always be scary because of that. They are, I don't think, a great team, but they do one thing really well. Kegan, what have you thought of Bieber so far, and what will all the fans and then their management group be looking for in his start tomorrow night? This is a big one, guys. And he is a really, really smart pitcher.

And he's not going to blow guys away. He's not going to throw 99. he's not going to snap a slider across the zone that makes a guy fall down. That's not him. But there's an incredible amount of precision to his game. He's probably throwing more 92, 93 with his fastball. But when he is good and when he's healthy,

he's one of the eight or ten best starting pitchers in baseball. And we've seen him do that a couple of times. He's also someone capable of going deep into a game. There's some old school. There's some throwback to Shane Bieber, which you see in Scherzer, Gosman, Barrios, bass, bass, it on and on. He really fits in this rotation. He's not the modern young starter who might give you four innings with 11 strikeouts, but throw 110 pitches that quickly. He's a throwback. He can

go deep. And the thing I'll be watching for, guys, this is really getting down to control versus command. If he wants to throw a high fastball, he's going to be able to throw a high fastball. No problem. He's Shane Bieber. He's in the big leagues. That'll work. It's about the pinpoint control. Do you want it to be in on the hands? Maybe out a bit of it. over the plate, outside edge. That's the challenge coming back from Tommy John's surgery, getting able to pick which inch of the plate you want that ball to be on. And that's the difference between a pop-up and a home run sometimes.

So we'll see how that goes with Bieber, but he's nailed this, guys. He looked incredible last time in AAA Buffalo. And when he gets home next week, I think against the Brewers, I don't think it'll be quite to the level of David Price, 2015, because I don't think Shane Bieber has that name value celebrity factor of the Price did back then. But it'll be pretty close, man. He is a really, really good pitcher. I think still underrated because he was stuck in Cleveland, which is not exactly a team you see on Sunday night baseball all the time. So while we're on pitchers, Alec Munoa is doing well on his way

back. Can you project him at any point during the course of this, what's left of the regular season? I still don't think we'll see Manoa in the big leagues this year. And that's not a knock on his rehab. He has also nailed this. It's been a long road from NOAA to get back from this. But I think a success story, guys, is if he gets some innings in, he looked better. Yesterday, I believe it was in AAA, better than the last time. That's what you want. If he is competing or winning, ideally, that number four or five job in the rotation next spring, total success story.

And he does not need to be who he was back in 2022, I believe it was, finishing third in the AL-Sye Young Award race. If he is fantastic, great. but the Blue Jays don't need to expect that. If he can be an innings eater at the back end of the bullpen who gives them a 3.95 or a 4.2 ERA, whatever it is, that's good. That's a win. But at this point, I don't see how he fits guys in a bullpen role. He doesn't overwhelm hitters, not a lot of swing and miss.

And he'd be at least two injuries in the starting rotation away from making the start. So this is probably a 2026 thing. Next spring training we're talking about him. but overall, it's still a success story and good to see him back on the mount. But Keegan, you look at the way Scherzer's got about his business at his age. Is he your number one starter of the playoffs start today? I think he is. If they literally start today, I think it's him.

Now, Shane Bieber's got a good chance to overtake him these next five, six weeks. I think he's the one guy with that upside. Kevin Gossman, I think is still in that top three conversation, absolutely. but Scherzer is doing it different ways and that excites me because normally you see someone when they're getting to the end of their career. Number one, end of their career is typically age 34, not 41, so he's already an anomaly. But they've typically got one trick left. For a lot of guys, all they've got is their control left. They're trying to pinpoint everybody. Max Scherzer can still overwhelm people. He can still miss bats in the zone, which is hard to do when you're 25,

forget 41. So this. is a better version of Max Scherzer than I thought we'd see at all with the Blue Jays. Like he has exceeded every expectation for me in Toronto. And it's happened in a strange way, but I think he has a full tank of gas now because of that thumb injury. And if you ask Max Scher, I'm sure he would say, shut up. I would have rather been pitching. But it's worked out.

It's worked out okay. And I think he's going to be fresh for the playoffs, which no other starting pitchers are at this point. He can pinpoint you. He can overwhelm you. We just saw he can throw 104 pitches in a game. I have not talked about Max Scherzer's thumb in weeks, which is good for him and my sanity.

Everything's good. So this is incredible for the Jay's guys. And two months ago, this looked messy. If Max Scher goes and wins them a playoff game, this is one of the better deals this front office is done, period. Because the ceiling, the upside is there. On a one-year deal, they might just pull this off as a really, really big win. As we get closer to the end of the season,

are you going to see this lineup kind of get more standardized? And does that include George Springer as a leadoff man? I think so, guys. I didn't think I would see George as the leadoff man again, but this has been the season of surprises and being wrong about stuff. But he looks very comfortable there. And he is one of those all-time classic lead-off guys. He just dipped for the last year and a half in Toronto, 24 and much of 23.

but the power he has from that lead-off spot is pretty unique. We've seen the base running as well. And George Springer, I mean, I can't talk about it enough. What an incredible athlete he is. I mean, forget baseball player, but we're talking like NFL free safety, even at 35, the best athlete, you know, across the board in that clubhouse. And that's what's helping him hold up right now. So I think he fits in there again, which is a big win for the Blue Jays,

because that lets you free up Bobachette to hit cleanup. and I like him there. That allows you to have Addison Barger in the two spots sometimes and Vladdy in the three spot where he belongs. And I do think, like you mentioned, that we will see more standardized lineups. You're not going to see as much experimenting day to day. You'll see something more like their lefty lineup

and the righty lineup. You want guys to get used to this. And there'll still be the pinch hitting, the line changes. They like to call it now in baseball. That's the buzzwordy thing. But I think you'll see it be pared down a little bit and be very standard in the playoffs.

It's no longer about keeping guys fresh, keeping them involved. Your best guys have got to play. You've got to make the playoffs. You've got to win the AL East. Kagan, one more before we let you go. Fisher was optioned to AAA Buffalo the other day yesterday, in fact. Your thoughts on that and how that alters everything? It's a tough one for Braden Fisher because he's been one of the best stories of the season.

But a few tough ones lately so he can go down, get a breather, 10 days in Buffalo. I bet a lot of money that on September 1st he's back up when they expand rosters back again. And that's where he belongs in the big leagues. But this is the nature of having a very deep roster. The other option would have been maybe Tommy Nance out of options. So the Jays were in a tough spot. But Braden Fisher, I think along with Joey Lope, Profito, probably come back on September 1st when you expand rosters again. And man, when you're optioning a guy with a low 3ERA, who is 24, 25,

you're in a pretty good place. Season of good problems lately for this team. Kagan, thanks very much. Appreciate it. You got it, guys. Take care. Higin Matheson, MLB.com. The biggest songs in the world. You've heard them countless times.

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