OverDrive - Matheson on Francis landing on the IL, the team's pitching depth and Guerrero Jr. needing more

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

MLB.com Blue Jays Reporter Keegan Matheson joined OverDrive to discuss Bowden Francis landing on the IL, his downturn throughout the season and the advancement back to the mound, Trey Yesavage making strides, the Blue Jays finding positives on the roster, Vladimir Guerrero Jr.'s search to improve and more.

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Includes auto-pay credit, conditions apply. Visit a Virgin Plus store or virginplus.ca for details. From MLB.com, author Keegan Matheson. What's happening Keegan? How we doing? Doing well fellas. How's everything going? Well we're doing alright.

We're trying to project how this five man rotation is going to work for the Blue Jays. Look in your crystal ball, let's say 20 days from now. Maybe even 30. Let's go a month. A month from now. You presume health. Gosman's there. Bassett's there.

Barrios is there. Who else is pitching in this rotation? I think Scherzer's there. I don't know if he's gonna be throwing six, seven innings at a time, but I think he's there in a certain sense. I'm interested to see if they push him up to a full hundred pitches or not,

because the further you go, the worse that thumb tends to get, is my impression so far so his rehab tomorrow is a big one guys this is not a normal rehab where you're just trying to build your pitch count up it's rehabbing and hoping a little bit so we'll see but after that you have that group of Bowden Francis and Lauer and Schultz and Turnbull that's kind of messy and I think a month from now Julyuly seventeen we're talking about who they can trade for frankly to fill the the back end of that rotation

alabano won't be back yet trace average will be enticing but every one of these things as a question mark next to them and for a lot of years jay's haven't had those question marks it's it's a new new ground for keegan as far as bad in france's how does he go from being borderline elite last year where he was stunning and he was a ton of strikeouts and really impressive starts? How does he start from scratch and find his game? Like, we've seen it with goaltenders how they need a break and they got to do whatever

they got to do in hockey, but as far as a starting pitcher in major league baseball how does he start from scratch and kind of look for his game and find his game yeah he got figured out plain and simple I think at this point and what does that mean Francis for the average guy driving around what does that mean he got figured out they just knew what he was throwing yeah they knew what was coming and there was not a dominant pitch coming. The way the comparison I use guys I think is valuable would be Kevin Gosman. If Kevin Gosman sucks for a month, he's still going to go back out and do the same thing. He's going to throw his splitter low, his fastball high, because a splitter, when it's

good, is one of the best pitches a starter has in Major League Baseball. I don't know what that pitch is for Bowden Francis. If you are relying on mixing and matching and really hitting your spots, you've got to be perfect. And late last year, he almost was, guys. He was incredible. But once the rest of the league wakes up to that and really starts paying attention,

you need to counterpunch, and he has not counterpunched. That's why we see lots of guys come up and they can have success, like Easton Lucas earlier in the year. He looked great for two starts and then looked brutal for two starts because the rest of the league spent more than five minutes looking at video. That's what's happened in a bigger sense to Bowden Francis now. So this I think for Francis should be a more complete reset. Maybe that involves some time in Dunedin at the lab really bringing it down to the

roots but finding out what he's good at. What's his thing going to be right now? Because when you get caught chasing things, trying to make these micro adjustments from start to start, you're toast. If you're trying to play catch up in the middle of the season, in June and July when hitters are hot, you're toast. So I think a reset's great for Bowden right now. I still believe in him as a starter in this league, but man, he's got to get his feet back under him because these past couple

of months were pretty tough. Well, you mentioned Alec Manoa who is still rehabbing. And again, I don't believe, you know, projects to be available until August. You know, it was the last I heard. I don't know if you've heard anything else. But what like the transition from Manoa being out of the limelight here for the better part of a year year and a half like I will say this the dust has settled on that disastrous you know six weeks he had eight weeks whatever it was I mean it was it was really the carryover of the year before that but the idea of of this front office with everything on the line the team's playing pretty well they're above 500 they're in a wildcard spot like selling to people that Minoa is gonna find a way to transition back

into the scene almost seems impossible to me like I don't want to sound pessimistic but I guess that's what I'm willing to sound like I just I can't picture Minoa as a blue J anymore. Where do you stand on this and what are you hearing on the rehabbing and the likelihood that he ever could you know reclaim his position on this team? Hey man, pessimism is important in baseball I think especially when you're looking at starting pitching like this and right now kind of August 1st is the ballpark idea for Manoa. In the Blue Jays dream world, he comes back and does

what Hun Jin Ryu did a couple of years ago. When Ryu came back from Tommy John, had those 10 or 11 starts down the stretch, three and a half ERA, helped them into the playoffs, everybody's happy, everyone's beautiful. I don't know if that's going to happen this year. It's been a few years since Alec Manoa was an effective major league starter. That's just the reality that we're living in right now. And when you go back to 22 and his years coming up as a prospect, yeah, like he looked like a modern frontline starter who was not just good, but could do it for 200 innings. Now, if he gets back to that, it's going to take even a couple of years

from now, given where his workloads at. Can he give them something down the stretch? Maybe, but I don't think you can plan on it. I think if the Blue Jays are sitting there at the trade deadline and they're counting on Minoa to do something, that's a mistake. That's risky at this point. Let him pleasantly surprise you. If he kicks the door down, fantastic. And he's a guy who's going to embrace that opportunity. He's going to love trying to be that player and that character. And if he does it, great. But I don't think the Blue Jays can be betting on that right now. When you look at last year, the year before, how this has gone for them. I think this is more about 2026 and beyond with Alec, if you can get back to close to

who he was. But it's been a while. And if you're being a serious playoff team, you can't bet on that you need to have that be the extra How close is the the kid they drafted in the first round last year Trey is savage It sounds like the stuff is good and they're kind of moving him up. Is that any kind of option at some point this year? That's the fun one man. That's where this gets fun And I think back to when Aaron Sanchez in 2014-2015 debuted as a reliever he didn't have enough innings left to fully be a starter and Yassabegge right now

about 100 innings last year in NCAA ball he's on track to be at about 120-130 this year and that's probably a comfortable spot. I don't think Yassabegge is going to come up and be throwing seven innings outings as a starter but if the Blue Jays find themselves stuck guys in this, what do they do with the fifth spot situation, which I think they're still in, why not? Yesavage has the upside man. He is polished. I think he is awfully close to being MLB ready. And if they don't find an answer and if they don't nail that fifth spot by August, you've

got to entertain it. And I did not think we'd be having that conversation this year, but his stuff is legitimate. He is a grownup on the mound. He's mature and that matters. You can't say that about all prospects right away, but he's the X factor, man. He's the fun idea in all of this. And there's a little edge via savage to man I think people are really gonna fall in love with that guy when he's up

He can how important is it for these guys to kind of rebound after that thumping in Philly and kind of let the fan base Know here in Toronto that they're not gonna get tortured for the next 20 or 30 games like it's kind of like they got to tell Everyone it's just okay here. We're the guys that you saw before with that Philly series. It's important guys. The Leafs are done. Stanley Cubs about to be over. Everyone's going to be watching baseball. This is the time to grab a fan base.

They did a good job of that a week ago, sweeping the Cardinals, starting out that road trip. You need to grab the fan base back because it can slip quickly. There's a lot of other stuff to do in the summer, even if there's nothing to watch at night. So these are big games because they have separated themselves from 500. They were stuck to 500 for two months. It was boring baseball. They're finally getting away from 500. And especially guys, we are six, seven weeks away from the trade deadline. Every conversation we have for the next month and a half is going to be about the deadline, whether they win, they lose, somebody gets hurt, hot or cold.

It's all about this deadline, man. This is where it gets exciting. And if they go on a bit of a run here, start to get six, seven, eight games above 500, then you're buying, then you're aggressive, no matter what. And that's the best place to be for a team, but also for a fan base. You have a little bit of hope there But if they start slipping you get back towards that 500 this starts to look like an in-the-middle team Which a lot of folks feared it would be going into the year So they need to stay away from that that 500 mark. It's been a bit of a magnet this year with Keegan Mathison I also think this is where the spotlight really starts to shine on Vlade

Who you know, it's had a he's had a good year, but it has not been a great year. Like his numbers, you know, he said eight home runs. He's got a 790 OPS. Um, those are not $500 million numbers, you know, to put it lightly. And, um, this is where, you know, he's been waiting for this. They've been waiting for this. They've committed to him. Outside of this most recent series in Philly, there's been a lot of winning. Kirk's been waiting for this they've been waiting for this they've committed to him outside of this most recent series in Philly there's been a lot of winning Kirk's been on fire bargers been outstanding the shats playing well Springer's kind of regrouped after a bad you know four to six weeks for me it's

Vlad E like what do you see what are you hearing from Vlad E where it was around this time last year I was gonna say this is his that it was like it's go time. Exactly. It's go time. Where do you do you anticipate that could be the case again this year with Vlad E needs to be and I think it will be honestly I really think that's coming for Vlad E. I haven't noticed him lately. Guys I for better or for worse I just haven't noticed Vlad E lately in these games and that's

not a good thing. You're paying him half a billion dollars. He's the face of a team that's playing really good baseball. But that's why this team has made no sense. I mean, Varsha's down, Santander is down, Scherzer is down. You're getting contributions from players I didn't expect. And you're seeing the bottom of this lineup at times carry the Blue Jays, but not Vladi. And Vladi is capable of stealing games. Like he can go out

and have a performance that turns a 5-2 loss into a 6-5 win. And those are the types of things that are going to keep the Blue Jays separated from 500. They're not a dominant team right now, but they have a player who can be dominant by himself and take over some games. It's got to happen. It needs to happen now. And I think he's close, but Vladdy can't just be good. A good season from Vladdy is not good enough. He's here to be great. I think he's capable of that, but right now he's kind of stuck in that 2023-ish range of just good. And we know he's a lot better than a good ballplayer. How's the book going Keegan? How are you feeling about things?

So far so good. A little well-timed winning streak helped out the marketing. Yes. I love it. You know, that was okay. So I enjoyed it, treated myself to some celebrations on the road. So, you know, it was nice. Good man. But it's going well so far. No great scandals or mistakes have been uncovered yet from it, so it's already exceeding expectations. That is a beautiful thing.

And the book is out. It's available wherever you're going to buy your books, right? The franchise, Keegan Matheson, MOB.com, and esteemed author. Esteemed author. Love catching up with you, buddy. Thank you for doing this. You got it, fellas. We'll talk soon.

There he is, Keegan Matheson. The biggest songs in the world. You've heard them countless times. Now, learn the truth. There he is, Keegan Mathison. New interviews and newly unearthed archive footage make for a fascinating weekly deep dive. Stream Encore, the stories behind the songs you love on iHeart Radio or wherever you get your podcasts.