OverDrive - Matheson on the Blue Jays' depth spark, Scherzer's consistency and Santander inching close to returning

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

MLB.com Blue Jays Reporter Keegan Matheson joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the Blue Jays' open win against Minnesota, Max Scherzer's future with the Blue Jays, George Springer back in the field, Anthony Santander's potential to return, the prospect pool improving and more.

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Loud, crowd, and all yours. No passports required, just press play. Tap into Made in Canada now on iHeartRadio.ca. Or the free iHeartRadio app. Here's Keegan Matheson of MLB.com joining us here on the Maple Tartar hotline. Do you have fun last night, Keegan? Some might say a little too much, fellas, feeling fresh. I like that.

Some might say. Some might say. Look at you, all right. All right. Good to catch up with you. I'm sure you had one eye on what was going on last night down at the park. And Max Scher gives up a couple of home runs. He got hit a little bit.

But he looks good to me up there. I mean, I think that's his third straight win in 12. starts now as a Blue Jay. And I remember talking about this with you back prior to the season starting, and I think the Jays would take 15 starts if they could guarantee it and be healthy into the playoffs. And that's kind of what he's trending towards doing. It's working, man.

Last night, we'll call it half an eye on the game. There were lots of Blue Jays fans there. Who did a great job of updating me on what was happening in my job while I was in the beer line, which was great. So we were a little up to date on it. But sure there now that I had the chance to watch through it, morning, man. This is what the Blue Jays dreamed of all along. And it cost a bit of an awkward path to get here, guys. But at this point, he's got a full tank for the playoffs. And if Max Schurzer

had to have been pitching all season, we're probably talking about whether or not he has that. You know, does he have his best stuff still? He's going to have his absolute max and fastball, his best slider in October. And that's the dream scenario. The way the Blue Jays got here was not a dream scenario. We spent months talking about his thumb, but it's working, man, and right now he's in that conversation, I think, still with that, Shane Bieber tier,

maybe the number two starter, number three in the postseason. And if he wins a playoff game, my God, that's one hell of a deal for one year. All right, what's your mini Jerry's here? Jerry's percentages that Max Scherzer is a Blue Jay next season.

Ooh, give me 30%. Give me a one-thirds-ish odds because at this stage of Max Gerger's career, I would ask you guys,

what's changed since last year? Last year he was kind of taking a chance on the Blue Jays in the winter. They were projected to win, what, 78, 79 games? This was not supposed to happen. But he likes Toronto. He liked the money, of course,

and the Jays is still going to have money. And he wanted to shot the win. He's not 31. He's 41. and you've only got so many cracks at this left. So if it's worked in Toronto, if it's worked with Pete Walker, the pitching coach,

you like being around, Kevin Gosman, we'll see what happens with Shane Bieber, this coaching staff. If you're happy here and you're winning and you're getting paid, makes a lot of sense. And the Jays will need at least another starter,

a real starter, in three agencies next year, not just a depth guy. And winning can convince you to do a lot of things. If they're going to play off run here, there's going to be a lot of reasons to run it back, even at 41 going on 42. Is it safe to say that the depth, you know, when it comes to the hitting, continues to provide for this team? Is that surprising that that's still the case at this point in the summer? Or, you know, given the way things kind of went throughout the first half of the season and then some,

this is right on par for what you expected compared to what they had been doing as far as the depth hitting goes? honestly guys this continues to surprise me and not because i doubt the players and and these depth players kind of like ernie clements a great example george springer his bounce back year but when this happens opposing pitchers are always going to adjust and that's why these early hot streaks tend to fizzle out in a season over 162 but the blue jays seem to be doing a really great job of staying one step ahead of that and counterpunching when they need to making another adjustment when they need to. Springer, I think again, guys, it's just the ultimate example of this. I cannot say enough about how impressed I am by his season. I didn't think it was coming. I thought we were

going to see the opposite. I thought we might be having conversations about his roster spot, his day-to-day job on this team. Complete opposite. He's been spectacular. But these role players coming up, guys, even Addison Barger is an example of that. He wasn't on the opening day roster. Now he's a key contributor. So they're winning that adjustments game, which, is not the exciting part of baseball, those adjustments, pitcher matchups, etc. But it's working, man. And you need those in the postseason because every team that wins the World Series,

there's going to be an Ed Sprague. There's going to be that guy who's on the fringe of starting. He's not your superstar, but he gets the big hit. And the Js have a lot of options. They've got a lot of guys we could be talking about not just in October, but if it all goes right for a lot of years. with Keegan Matheson, MLB.com, Jay's Twins tonight. Yeah, you look at Springer and him playing left field last night,

which is something he's done a few times this year. It had never done prior to this year. And he caught that fly ball last night, and he's laughing, and everyone's kind of joking around with him. But it seemed to be a possibility of what could happen down the stretch here and into the playoffs. Like the flexibility of Springer, when he arrived, obviously, he was a center fielder,

then he played predominantly right field. This year he's played a lot of DH. But do you see him as a guy that could end up actually playing playoff games, you know, possibly in left field? I think so, guys, and that's been a bit of a plan along the way, saving their bullets and keeping George Springer fresh, so that on October 6th and October 21st, whatever it is, if you have a good DH that can help you max out the lineup,

then you can have George Springer in the field. If Anthony Santander returns, that could easily take care of that with Santander de-Hing. I'm still in the kind of believe it when I see it camp. We'll see if there's a long way to go there. But if the Blue Jays can max out their lineup a bit, George Springer makes a ton of sense there. And that's something they're doing a better job of this year. Last year was very defense-focused. How can they be the single best defensive team on the planet every single night

and then build the lineup? up. This year is a little more focused on offense. I like it. I think it's the right move. I think it's overdue. And Springer is another example of that. So a little flexibility. And yeah, he's 35, but come on, that's not 70. He's a great athlete, an incredible athlete. He can handle it every day. I think he'll be okay there. You brought up Anthony Santander and said, you know, you'll believe it when you see it. I mean, outside of, I guess, a bunch of injuries to depth players, what would you need to see in order for him to be hitting come playoff time? Like, what would that path have to look like for him?

I think I'd really need to see some actual performance in minor league games. And the one wrinkle in all of this, I think the AAA Buffalo Bisons, their season ends September 21 or 22 right in there. It doesn't go all the way after the end of the month. So he would need to get into those games in the first week or two of September. So the clock is really ticking on that. But if Santander, guys, hypothetically, let's work with this. If he goes into a minor league rehab assignment and he's not really putting up numbers,

it's an awkward conversation. Is he in a groove yet? Are you still going to put a guy shaking off Russ into a lineup chasing the playoffs where every game matters? You don't have time to get right. You do not have patience. But if he gets into those games, he's launching a few home runs. You see the power. Well, then, fantastic.

You try to find some matchups for him. I think you can be comfortable deaching him, but as tough as it is to say about an established veteran who earned every dollar of that contract at this point of the year, I'm going to want to see some performance in the minor leagues to make you comfortable. Otherwise, it's a real risky bet, and I do not want to be the guy making that bet.

With Keegan Matheson, Jay's Twins tonight, so Alejander Kirk hits another home run last night, and he'll be behind the plate tonight. And I think, you know, he has gotten his flowers this year, deserved all of them. He's had a phenomenal season, might be their team MVP. Talk about internal improvement. He was a big part of it considering the way he played the last couple of years. But the fact that Heineman, like this guy's hitting 320, I had to look it up today because I was curious and I knew his stats have been great.

He has a 2.0 wins above replacement. Kirk has a 2.1. It's kind of amazing how, again, if you want to encapsulate why everything is broken their way and credit to the front office because they've committed to these guys. But, like, they have the best one-two punch going right now. Statistically, I remember when Heinemann hit his home run second or third series of the year.

Remember everyone was laughing and they couldn't believe it. He's only hit three on the year, but still for him, that's like Judge hit in 50 or 60. It's kind of amazing how behind a plate this year, Keegan, they feel incredibly comfortable every single game. And they've been healthy and you can commit to them and they feel great about that position when there's been a lot of turnover and a lot of uncertainty over the last two or three years based on who is the right fit, who should have been traded, who should have been cut,

who should get the time. And, you know, that position in particular in 2025 has been absolutely lights out. And of all positions to have a strength, that catcher is such an important one. You know, I always compare it to the quarterback in the NFL. If you don't have one, you're probably toast, and there aren't enough good ones. A lot of backup catchers in the big leagues have terrible offensive numbers. They can just catch, they can frame, they can control the running game. There are not enough MLB caliber backup catchers.

And Heinemann's been fantastic. Alejandro Kirk is a legitimate MVP candidate for the Blue Jays this year. Just a spectacular season. And we're going back a year or two guys to when they had, Gabriel Moreno, who was one of the top prospects in all of baseball. They had Danny Jansen when he was hitting for power, and it was a big decision. Like, who are they going to go with? How are they going to spread out this wealth of talent that no other team has?

And making this bet on Alejandro Kirk, it's not an easy bet to make when you line these guys up and look at them. And Kirk has been one of this organization's biggest successes, period, like the last decade. he was signed for 30 grand at a scouting event where he wasn't even the guy the blue jays were watching like this was never a top prospect he was never expected or supposed to be anything close to what he's been but the right people have believed in him the right people have pushed for him and it's resulted in one of the most unique players in major league baseball and an incredible starting catcher and that extension they did with kirk before the season looks like one of the best deals in the big leagues right now.

Like dollar for dollar, that is great business. Well, and you know, you talk about Alejandro Kirk kind of coming up through the pipeline here for the Blue Jays in a year where everything seems to be going right for them. You know, farm team rankings come out on ESPN today, and there's the Blue Jays ranked at number 12. And you look at it, you say, okay, like they've got good veteran players, they've got core pieces locked up. they're leading the AL East.

They're going to be a playoff team and they still have a really good prospect pipeline. Like is that, I don't know, how significant is that that they're, you know, in the top 12, you know, when it comes to their farm team or their farm team system? And this is after they traded Cal Stephen, who we had ranked number five in their system,

Kendri Rojas, number six, and Geron Watts Brown, who was number 10. So three of their top 10 prospects get, traded and they're still making a jump like this, which is nuts. That's telling you that if those prospects had stayed, they'd be comfortably in the top 10. And this is where sustainable winning comes from. Everyone says sustainable winning most of the time it's lost. Most of the time, it's impossible. But if you have a good farm system next to spending money, that's how you keep winning. That's what the Dodgers do. Not enough people talk about the Dodgers ability to develop

players and draft them and sign them. But if the Blue Jays can do this a long, the money they're spending, that's the sweet spot, man. That's where the magic happens. Because every time you develop someone like, let's say Addison Barger or Alejandro Kirk, when you develop them by yourself, not only are you getting a good, really good MLB player, suddenly the 15 million bucks you were about to spend on a third basement, cool, you spend it somewhere else now. You go get a good pitcher.

You go find Max Scher on a one-year deal and help a playoff run. It makes everything work. This farm system has been one of the best stories of this season. It's overdue. And my guys, even myself, I can't believe that we're just saying all these good things about the Blue Jays this year. Normally it's been the farm systems down, injuries, elbow surgery after elbow surgery in the Blue Jays system. It's all come together all at once, really top to bottom. That's how you sustain this stuff year to year.

Well, and that's, I guess, the practice that we've been through the last couple of years would suggest that, you know, to pump your brakes a little bit on what 26 could look like because it's so unpredictable because last year these were just facts, you know, according to all of these different, you know, profiles and these different scouting systems and scouting rankings, they had a bottom 10 payroll.

And they were a bottom 10 team, wins and losses. Those are facts. They had a top 10 payroll. I said that 50,000 times on TSN last year. Top 10 payroll, bottom 10 team, bottom 10 farm system. That was your motto. You got it on a T-shirt. I patented that. But it was fact

but now it's top 10 payroll top 10 team top 12 farm system pretty good it changes pretty quickly you know and I don't know what the hell is going to happen in 2026 I guess we've got to find out but the schedule's out for next year and that's a good sign you can at least get out in front of it and I'm sure the jays and their marketing department king and they're going to be flying now because they know what they're selling and you want to sell when when things are hot and it's the better as hot as you can get right now. Oh, yeah. People are probably getting some emails heavy already. Bye, bye, bye.

Yeah, that time of year. Yeah, fellas, I was sitting, you know, bright and early this morning as I was waking up feeling fresh in that 2026 schedule release email hit. And I said, oh, my God, not yet. Okay. That's quick. Man, it's a nice soft opening for them, too. You know, that's got the makings of A's, I think, A's, Rockies, and another week

club in there. A little seven-and-two opening. Probably nine bobblehead days right in a row. off the top. Yep. Hook it up. I like that. What does the schedule mean for you?

Like, do you look at that and you start to pinpoint certain trips? Like you see somewhere down south in the middle of July and you're like, I just, I'm already sweating, just thinking about that trip? Oh, yeah. Like, probably a couple top worries for me. Number one, where am I at the trade deadline? Am I going to be sweaty when I'm on TSN? Thankfully, we're here in Toronto.

Ideally, the dome's closed. Pretty comfortable. Okay. Number two is when I go through the list and start making up the lies to the girlfriend about how this schedule can work for both of us, you know? Look at this great trip to the West Coast. Wouldn't you like to come along for this? My job's actually healthy and sustainable.

Let's do this. So, you know, you start to work in the travel, kind of the half vacations along the way and some cities that you can extend some fun in. But it's really mentally I go through first, and I try to use my two or three vetoes on a few different cities. You know, I try to scratch a few out with the big red X. I like that. Well, I'll give you one right here off the top.

June 19th, 20th, 21st. Wrigley Field in Chicago. That's one you've got to get to if you're a Blue Jay fan. That has to happen. Every couple of years are going to go back. The Cubs were just in town recently. I love that idea. That's a bring the girl along right there.

That's a great town. Lake June, weather's beautiful. That city to do a trip to, man. I love Chicago. My number one, get some day games at Wrigley, have your nights for you in Chicago. Love it. That is a good, good, love it. A little architecture tour on the river.

Yeah. Hit the boat, absolutely. Oh, yeah, man. I'll give you another one, man. The first week of July, the 6th through the 12th, right before the All-Star break, they're in the Bay Area at Giants and then at Padres. You do a little Pacific Coast Highway action there. There we go.

Maybe pop into L.A. on the 9th when they're off. That might be something in a circle. Bring someone along to the San Diego trip, and that's where I extend the stay, but my return flight is still for, quote, unquote, work purposes. Beautiful idea. Important way to look at it. Beautiful idea. I love that.

When you were a little younger, would you, like, venture off into Tijuana if you were doing a San Diego trip? Is that something that would have happened? Oh, it would have tempted me. I saw a lot more 4 a.m. back in the day. Let me tell you. But now I'm trying to do this a little more sustainably, but I used to look at the schedule release a lot differently in, let's say, 2019, when I was a different year.

when I was a different younger man. Totally agree with that. All right, Kagan, enjoy yourself tonight. Thank you for doing this. You got her, fellows. We'll talk soon. There's Kegan Matheson of MLB.com and Overdrive co-host. You need to make sure we point that out. Joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline,

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