OverDrive - Matheson on the Blue Jays heating up significantly, Francis' evident struggles and Barger's impressive emergence

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

MLB.com Blue Jays Reporter Keegan Matheson joined OverDrive to discuss the Blue Jays' sizzling run through the month, the positivity in the clubhouse, Bowden Francis' issues on the mound and the fifth spot on the rotation, Anthony Santander's underwhelming start, Max Scherzer getting back in the mix and more.

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Some restrictions and exclusions may apply. See participating stores for details. Single day is in St. Luke, Keegan this in a moment will be dot com and he could joins us now you don't get it i'm doing very well fellows coming to you from uh... funny st louis right outside the stadium here i am uh... on the surface of the fun but it's a good place to be i love it i love it and i said uh... you know i've said a multiple times today sometimes we lead into the negative and we'll get to

that there's a couple of negative stories but i think it's been overwhelmingly positive the last couple of weeks will kind of mojo are you picking up around the club when you're in the clubhouse around the dugout batting cages what's life like right now on the road with the blue jays uh... totally different feeling that being around this roster the coaching that bomb

they're probably just like disappointed to see me instead of actively upset to see me every day so that's a little better in my life but man they are making good on a lot of stuff they were talking about earlier in the year because this roster and John Schneider included talked a lot about a better clubhouse, a better feel, better energy. None of that matters if you're not winning. Now when we see them winning it's a little easier to see what that looks like. It's so hard to measure it and even for me I'm around the team every day. I can't really feel that

myself. It's only for players too. But you're starting to see that come out a bit and you're starting to see this kind out of it you start to see this kind of snowball uh... a bit for them in a positive way and the fact they've done all of this no value from some time there which shows are giving them three innings garcia gone in men as is not given the much pretty amazing they've been able to do this so far and without in fact this is rotation spot

being pretty ugly so far. A lot's gone against them but they're making it work right now. That's where I was going to go. Bowden Franson, where do you make of his game and you know how close is he to missing a spot in the rotation, at least the start or two? Yeah, it's just not working right now. Something is not working for him. Whether opposing hitters are picking up on something that's coming or what's happening, but Fountain Francis does not have that dominant pitch. He does not have Kevin Gosman's splitter, for example, or Jose Barrios, that combo fastball and curveball he has is pretty unique.

So if you're Kevin Gosman and you have a couple of starts that really suck, whatever, you're still going to throw that splitter over and over because that's your thing that works. What is it then that Bowden Francis comes back to? I'm not sure. I don't know what that next move or that next pivot is. I do think though guys that he needs to stay a starter. I think he needs to remain a starting pitcher. Now that doesn't mean it has to be here. You can figure that out in Buffalo for a little bit, but I don't think the Blue Jays should start yanking him back and forth into the bullpen again. That's not valuable for anybody. The issue right now is that I don't really know who takes that space. Eric Lauer's there. You do have Paxton Schultz, Spencer Turnbull we just spoke to, but John Schneider said, I like the

way he worded it, he said right now he's locked in. So take that for what you mean, but right now locked in, I guess subject to change. Like I don't know what they do Keegan, because it's got a really bad vibe. And I was talking about Tanner Roark where it had an ugly feel to it where it was like, oh, calm down, we're not going there right now, but just the feel of...

Oh no, that's an interesting comp, I do. Yeah. But you know the feeling where you knew he was going out there and you knew he was getting rocked and then he got rocked and it was like, wow, how much longer can you keep wheeling him out there to get rocked? I honestly think the ROAR conversation is a good one, like a valuable one to have because the feeling at that point was that you didn't really know what the adjustment was he was going to make.

Roark was also not a guy who could overpower you or dominate you with a real standout pitch. And when pitchers who rely a bit more on feel and mixing pitches start to get hit really hard, it's hard to bounce back from that. And what we're seeing right now is the league adjusting to battle Francis. He was absolutely fantastic last year in August and September. You can't take that away from him, but this is what happens when the league takes a look at that and adjusts. So it's his turn to bounce back to that. And if he does get this next start in the rotation it sounds like he's going to right now standing here on whatever day

of the week this is Monday it sounds like he's going to get it but if that one doesn't go well I think that's decision time automatically at that point and it's the Blue Jays would love him to bounce back and you don't have to be great you have to be average give the Blue Jays a four and a half VRA that's enough right now it just can't be a six they don't need perfect they just need decent right now. Keegan our fearless leader Brian Hayes every once ever every Brian Hayes every once in a while gets a hate on for somebody and right now he kind of has one for Santander. What are we going to do with this cat? Like,

healthy? Can he get it together? Like, what are we dealing with here? I like it. We've got the hater alerts. Anthony, Santander. This has been a bad start. Nothing about this has been good. There's nothing I can stretch, pretend it's been good. He has been hurt on top of the slow start and my question guys and where my mind goes now is that if Santander is a slow starter every single year a proven slow starter that's okay as long as he bounces back but now that he comes back from this injury and it doesn't sound like he's close right now but once he gets back in a week or two or three is that another start

you start slow again he's such a a rhythm and feel based hitter what that means is that he benefits from every single day at bat he's the type of hitter who john schnider says needs to swing his way out of things which means you need at bats every day and that's the one thing he's not getting right now. The Jays need power from him. They do not need him to come back and put the ball

in play. They need him to hit the ball out of play and provide immediate offense with power. It's not been pretty and the lineup has gotten by okay without him, but it's an awkward one so far. Again guys, that's where my mind goes when he comes back is that another start that the bit of a close started to do in july right because now pictures are good they've been all year well uh... i think you can spin it as a glass out full though is you know they've survived without like you said if he gets back to form than your you're basically adding a bat that can be capable of hitting 40 plus home runs.

But I love Bichette into Guerrero into Addison Barger. I love the way it looks. I love the way it feels. That's the lineup again tonight. You've got Kirk hitting fourth. I'm curious because we talked about it a ton through the spring that we anticipated Bichette into Vlade into Santander and that's how they started the year. Let's say Santander was available to come off the IL, could be activated, was going

to play tonight. I think they'd ease them into it. They'd probably start them maybe sixth in the lineup, maybe seventh. I don't know. I mean, Springer's hit for power again. Maybe he stays where he's at. But could you picture a scenario where Santander turns into like a pure kind of conventional old-school cleanup hitter if bargers capable of you know continuing to

produce the ways but produce yeah I think you need to prioritize barger right now because he represents what this team needs and what I don't think they've chased enough over the last few years which is upside this team has leaned a lot on guys like Brandon Bell, Justin Turner, like veterans who are 36 on a one-year deal, hoping that they will just get one more year of value. But what you see in Barger right now is complete untapped potential.

And we all see it with those physical tools. Like when he puts it together, he can do things that not a lot of people can do on this team and in the sport. When he's do things that not a lot of people can do on this team in the sport when he's been doing that lately he is worth building lineups around and when some time there returned he could have to be shaped around that at this point

until some time there gets hot he's going to be hitting lower in that lineup i think now in a perfect world yeah he gets back up to be at number four that number five with kirk in there is a much higher contact that but that might be a bit of a slow path back for some time there the update today was just these kind of a week out from his injection in the shoulder and nothing really do

from that so it it sounds like it's still going to be a little bit like we're not talking this week i don't think the songs on there and the hotter barger gets and the more barger mania man keeps the bill momentum uh... he's going to be prioritized i think you should be with keegan matheson m l b dot com jays cardinals in saint louis tonight uh...

bottom act sure is a news coming out of saint louis uh... i guess you know is he's been pitching some side sessions and building his arm up again it sounds like you probably get get a rehab start on Friday with the Bisons and he's going to have at least two rehab starts before he returns. You know, spin this for us Keegan. Are we supposed to believe that he's going to arrive and then all is good from here on out?

Do you believe he'll even make it through those two rehab starts like what do you hear in on Scherzer and not only how good he's telling everyone he feels but how good he actually feels and how good he looks he's alive fellas that's number one and that's a sorry I just had a police dog walk by me and take a little too long of a look here I got nervous moving on okay all right thank goodness but with scherzer the update we got today was as encouraging as it's been a long time and the issue for him is not building up for those early bullpens it's when you get to 50 60 pitches and he said that all year so all along my opinion

has been that he'll be back when he's back because nothing really matters Until he does a full game 60 70 pitches So we're finally going to see that and if all of this goes well I would bet on it just being two rehab appears one on Friday One next week on Thursday or Friday probably with triple a Buffalo that would be huge now at the same time We've had Max Scherzer conversations for two, three months now because there continue to be setbacks and delays. So for his sake, you hope that this goes well and there's not another one. But if he keeps saying over and

over that it needs to be past 50 pitches to see how he recovers, still kind of in wait and see mode. And the J's need to see how he bounces back from these how that some feels so it's not a not a typical rehab it's a rehab with a question mark I think still at this point but the point I also keep coming back to fellas that if he gets back I still think he's a really good MLB pitcher like he's not just giving you a four ERA I think he can be dominant still in shorter bursts. Keegan, I'd like to be optimistic about Scherzer in the comeback, but I just have a feeling

it's gonna get to 60 pitches, whether that's in Buffalo. Yeah. And there's an issue, and I think we can all agree if there is, that's the end of the line, and this guy just disappears. That would be the awkward point because uh... i do i would not volunteer to be the person to ask mac sure there if you want to short that pitch in shorter

stints in the big leagues i i do not think he's wired that way and that's what it would get really awkward for the blue jays we thought it would bring late spring training when he was building up again it looked like he'd be okay but then he got that fifty fifty five pitches the next day of bomb was barking and he spoke to us uh... it was pretty

he was pretty dire at the time about how it felt that how he couldn't come back until it was a hundred percent so at a certain point to be the human body to begin is not built to throw baseballs like matchers of those baseballs and when you do it a hundred thousand times and you're 40 going on 41 there are certain realities that set in and he is fighting against those right now but I do agree and that's why it's

a rehab with a question mark that you have to monitor. He's not just getting some innings in and then coming back. Yeah we'll see what comes of it with him but oh you bring up a good point like if it doesn't work and there's another trip to a specialist like. Nah dude it's like we can't see it's almost like the organization has to say just check please like you can't keep putting the time. Yeah like here's your 15 sheets and thanks for everything we tried it was worth a shot because the trade deadline like it's coming up pretty quick now Keegan right?

Like you got to get your ducks in a row Here and like if Francis is in a part of the future or possibly isn't it sure as it doesn't become an option You know like you got three guys you can rely on right now. That's not going to cut it the rest of the year No, and the rotation is going to be their big thing at the deadline guys You can hope on when Noah coming back sure you You can hope on Tre Savage, their number two prospect, who was bumped up to double-A today, but he's 21. I don't know. And you need, if you have two question marks in your rotation, you need five options. You need options on options. And what I think would make a lot of sense for the Blue Jays at the deadline is a rotation move

kind of like Barrios when they traded for him, a guy that's not just for this year, but for next year and maybe even beyond that, a larger move. And understanding where they're at with Scherzer has to be part of that. Even if he's back, even if he gives them a few starts, you probably want some depth beyond that. But they need to know exactly where they are, not just July 31 but within the next couple of weeks there's a lot of question marks up in the air because I think they need to be really aggressive at this deadline. Keegan you mentioned the barger mania and unlike my two colleagues here I am very I

am very patient with my expectations I don't get out of hand. What are you talking about? Hang on a second. When I watch this guy hit bombs, I'm like, this guy's a stud. He's just got that sweet lefty swing. Tell me this is going to turn out and tell me this is for real. I would love to. I have been really slow on Barger, guys.

I'll be honest with you. I've been slow He's a six round draft pick. It's not like this is yeah, and at the same time guys I've seen these I've seen how strong he is. I've seen how fast he is I've seen how hard he hits the ball for years now and in a league where players are breaking out as superstars at age 20 21 22 I've asked for years now where is it like for a guy that can do all these things why isn't it happening for adison barger and it's always that mental side of the game and that the mental game means

different things for different folks for some guys it means knowing every number and being smartest in the room triton barger i think it means calming down and being like a nine out of ten instead of 40 out of ten Which I think is what he was at in the minor leagues a lot of the time He is all intensity man And what we're seeing now is the big test because I always have someone like David Schneider in mind that big start Then the league adjusts to you. So what's gonna happen these next couple of weeks if this goes a couple of weeks longer

Yeah, I believe in barge a long term and if that happens, it changes the whole trajectory of this team. Honest to God, I think it does. As a power hitting third baseman, who's suddenly a great defensive third baseman. I didn't see that coming either. Dude. So it's a, this is an amazing start. I've been slow to believe in it, but I am absolutely starting to. And the guy has fan favorite written all over him too because he creates highlights unlike anybody outside of laddie Yeah, he's a beast man. He's the next George Brett. That's what Looking in a mirror really absolutely I love it

All right Keegan great stuff, buddy, how's the book launch going? You guys, I saw you're signing a bunch of autographs last week, man. You're a rock star. Big deal. Fellas, I was suited up, smiling, shaking hands. It's, yeah, after a week of talking about myself too much, I'm very happy to be on the road with some quiet hotel beers, I think. This will be a nice balance.

Beautiful. Well, you're the home of Budweiser, right? You've got to be ready to drink Buds. They don't serve anything else down there. Exactly. Enjoy yourself. It's a St. Louis culture here. I'm happy. Absolutely. Take care, guys. Thanks, Keegan. Keegan Matheson of MLB.com.

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