OverDrive - Naylor on the Argonauts' rough patch, Roughriders' undefeated start and Steelers' training camp spotlight

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

TSN Football Insider Dave Naylor joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the CFL, the brawl between the Alouettes and Lions, Nathan Rourke and Tre Ford's showdown, the Roughriders' undefeated streak, the Argonauts' tough start to the season, the Steelers in the spotlight and more.

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And we're sort of doing the LeBron thing based on Devonte Adams and Dan Patrickson. If LeBron played football, he would have been a stud. Do you do that with athletes? You sort of look at them and go, what if this guy was in this sport? Oh yeah, certainly. Especially when you're not only projecting them what sport, but when you're applying it to football, what position. Because football is so position specific, I guess more than any other sport, maybe than baseball if you include pitcher. But like, okay, so where would LeBron play? Well, I think he would have made an outstanding tight end.

Like you can, like the ball skills, the physicality, the burst, I mean, he's got tight end, which is of course the sport that guys do transition out of basketball to football with. Like Antonio Gates, one of the great tight ends in NFL history, never played college football. He was a basketball player, and there are other guys that were more basketball than football guys

that have gone all into that. I mean, the other position I think you could see him at is that defensive end, and that's a common, in amateur football you see that a lot, right? The guys are tight ends slash D ends, and you could see LeBron coming off the edge again with those hands, swim moves, that length up all man and get excited that but but they're not saying like okay it's nothing to have the the physical

skills in the the frame and then the athleticism and then there's one other ingredient and for a guy who is sometimes been nicknamed lafla i'm not sure the bond would have the football toughness how do do you know if a guy's football tough? I guess is the question Well, I mean, you know part of the the flopping whether it's in basketball or football is like to gain an advantage, right? Which you don't get that a lot in football because the game is so physical

But I I mean I think honestly physical physicality toughness in football comes from competitiveness You know, you can't you can't play this game I think honestly physicality, toughness in football comes from competitiveness. You know, you can't play this game competitively and not be physical. And I think, well, LeBron may have been an artistic flopper at different times in his career. He's also a pretty competitive athlete and that's, I think, the side we see if he was playing football. So let's go to the CFL with the BC Montreal Fracas on the weekend and some suspensions. I mean, there's a lot of tempers in football, but normally at games end, I don't think I've seen that too often.

No, it looked like a junior hockey brawl or something is what it reminded me of, one of those kind of viral things that goes on. And again, right at the end of the game, and it is kind of amazing we don't see that more often in football when you think of, like not only do you line up Against the same team 60 times a game But you often line up against the same guy like football is a bunch of one-on-one matchups a lot of times So, you know a poke in the eye here a shot in the ribs under the pile there gets remembered And I think it's the one thing that some people are surprised about is there's only one suspension in it all and I think that somewhat reflects that you know

I think sometimes when we that you know I think sometimes when we talk about suspensions in football it we kind of you know go into sort of hockey speak right give them a game give them two games three games you know but it's you got to remember I mean there's what the NHL's gonna play 84 now oh good 84 not 82 and the but I mean the CFL they're playing 18 so I think there is a hesitancy to suspend in football, uh, just because you're taking paychecks away from guys, you're taking players off the rosters and those kinds of things. So,

but it was, uh, yeah, quite not something we see very often. Again, in that stadium, if you know that personal motion stadium very well, you know, the locker rooms and the benches are really tight to the sidelines. And we have this weird thing that I don't know why this is in the CFL, that the side that in the East, there's a lot of quirks in Canadian football. Sometimes I'll write a list of them all, just all the weirdness in Canadian football that only exists in Canadian football. And one of them is this, in the west division, the teams are on opposite field,

sides of the field, right? Like in the NFL. In the east division, they're on the same side. You go to a game at BMO, right? You look and you see the two teams are right, they're like, same thing in Montreal. Now, I don't know how to explain that. It seems to defile logic, it's like the designated

hitter rule, except it's for the team lineup. I know why they do it in the east, it's like the designated hitter rule except it's for the team line up. I know why they do it in the East is because they can sell the signage across the field on the other side. That's why they do it. But I don't know why that doesn't carry the day in the West. But that's also I think the setup. And this has been criticized in the past. You look how tight, there's not a lot of space separating those teams when you actually get down there, especially when they start to crouch, you know, the center of the field a little bit. So I think that's part of what happened as well. Dave, if we move ahead and look ahead into week six, there's a massive tilt between the BC Lions,

quarterback by Nathan Rourke and the Edmonton Elks, quarterback by Trey Fort, two stud Canadian QBs going head to head this weekend. How big is this for the league? I think it's great. I mean it was a real buzz in the opening week and you know the the Alcs just didn't bring it. You know and Trey Ford frankly didn't play very well. But you know I had a conversation with Edmonton's offensive coordinator a couple weeks ago Jordan McZimick and was asking him about Trey and his development and but this is something you don't see very often in the CFL. It's more of't see very often in the CFL.

It's more of an NFL thing, right? In the CFL, the change of quarterback usually often happens in desperation time when your quarterback is playing lousy or he gets hurt. But recently we've seen a trend that is, again, more like in the NFL, where teams will anoint a guy, a young quarterback in the off season, off a limited sample of play time,

and say, we're gonna ride this guy, because if we think we can develop it and get his high side, he's gonna be spectacular. And Trey Port is that guy, right? He's the greatest athlete who's ever played quarterback from the U-sport level. And again, just to keep this relevant, right? The list of guys who've gone from U-sport football

to become a starting quarterback in the Canadian Football League in the last 50 years is nobody. Short. Like nobody, right? So like this is quite a, you know, quite a, you know, an accomplishment for him to be anointed as a franchise quarterback.

And I think what we've seen in every week is his improvement. And week one, he's scampering out of the pocket. Week one and two, he's scampering out of the pocket early. He's relying on his legs. Soon as there's pressure, he gets jumpy. And all of a sudden, now you start to see hanging in the pocket, making throws from the pocket. And coincidentally, his rush yards are way down. Now, I still think Trey Ford is an elite, elite his rush yards are way down. Now I still think Trey Ford is an elite, elite rusher, and that's a real weapon for Edmondson.

But maybe to develop him as a pocket passer, you've got to take away his reliance on his legs. You just have to get him not to be so quick to go. So I'm sure we'll see that surface later in the year, but I'm really excited what we've seen in Trey Ford and the development that he's made over the first third of the season. And to have this matchup of, not just two quarterbacks I think you know we're all sophisticated enough

to sports fans that we don't like seeing players just because they're Canadian or where they're from or whatever but when you've got you know two truly good quarterbacks I mean Nathan Rourke is a great quarterback and Trey Ford you know is certainly on his way in that direction and they both happen to be homegrown it's I think it's a special occasion. Nail, you look at the progression out in Saskatchewan. I think 2023 they go 6-12. Last year they're 9-8 and now here we're heading into week 6. They're the only undefeated team in the CFL at 4-0. They will host Calgary in the Friday night game. How good is this Saskatchewan team and what are you looking for in that matchup? Yeah, I think they're really good.

And this is their second year under Corey Mace, their head coach who was the defensive coordinator in Toronto, did so many good things. Somebody who is really, really highly respected in the game. It's always funny guys, football's such a small world. I love these things where I think of like the first time I ever spoke to somebody and it's always in a different you know, football such a small world. I haven't said these things where I think of like the first time I ever spoke to somebody and it's always in a different context of where they are now.

The first time I ever spoke to Corey Mase was at a Buffalo Bills night practice at St. John Fisher college and training camp. The year that the bills had TO, I remember that he was, he of course spent a number of years with the bills before he came to play in the Canadian football league. But you know, Corey Mase is, is I say a highly respected guy by players, a really good defensive coach and if you look at where this team is winning, it's the trenches, Dave. Like they are best in the league at running the football, best in the league at stopping the run.

I mean, I don't care what league you're talking about, that's one in one A, the kind of establishing your presence. Then you look at things like sacks. They're near the top of the league in sacks. When you look at sacks given up, they're near the bottom. So they're clearly winning at the line of scrimmage and AJ will let who went to Saskatchewan on a pretty significant free agent deal a year ago and kind of, you know, didn't have a great year when he was healthy and, and, you know,

was injured much of it. He really transformed his body this off season, kind of came in with a different bit of a more lighter build and a little more ability to bounce it outside and have a little more sort of explosiveness and we're seeing that. So yeah, I think this is a team that can take the ball away, they can stop the line of scrimmage and Calgary is just a team that's surprising us. I mean, I think a lot of people looked at that roster at the start of the year and said, man, this is almost an expansion team,

just in terms of the number of turnovers, particularly on defense. And yet, right from week one, Dave Dickinson's got them playing very crisp, very, very sharp football, which is not what you tend to think of when you think of a roster that's been remade, but certainly Vernon Adams being there

has put a big jolt into that team as well. He had a huge game last week in there upset Winn against Winnipeg. Dave, the Argos are one in four allowed 163 points. And that's been a significant turnover on that roster. What's your level of concern? I, it's high. I mean, look, I think sometimes, you know, Toronto has done that particularly the defensive side of the ball. They kind of have this mentality of like, we can replace anyone. And you know, when teams,

when teams come bidding for their players, I mean, they paid Wynton McManus their middle linebacker was basically the only guy that rolled out a big defensive contract to at the end of last year, their front four, but the starting front four from the great cup is not on the roster. You know, three of them are elsewhere in the CFL ones with the Cleveland Browns and you know, they had changes on the roster. Three of them are elsewhere in the CFL, one's with the Cleveland Browns. And they had changes on the back end. And I think everybody looked at it and said,

man, I know they've done this before, but the big difference I think this year is, look, last year they missed Chad Kelly for the first half of the year. And the Argonauts could count on a defensive touchdown and a special teams touchdown almost every week. It was like, they weren't playing great before Chad Kelly came back last year, but that's what complimentary football is, right?

When your offense is down and you don't have your starting quarterback, you need defensive special teams to chip in. And that was a big part of what they were getting last year. And they're not, I don't think Nick Arbuckle has been terrible, but there's a reason he hasn't been able to hold a starting job as a quarterback in this league. I think he's a very serviceable backup, but without the defense and the special teams giving him the presence they did last year.

No, I know, I would be, and we don't know, the Chad Kelly thing keeps moving, right? It's like, wouldn't rule him out to the start of the season until very late in training camp. Now we're talking week seven. You know, it's a broken ankle from a playoff game last november uh... you know what will see but it's uh... yeah this this this season to get away from a very quickly particularly if there's any delays in jen kelly's

return now what do you make it uh... the sort of the the fallout from that week three game where uh... rough riders uh... quarterback trevor harris took a headshot from the Argos Jordan Williams. There was a fine levied and I guess Harris has told the media in Regina that he's insinuated that there was essentially a retaliatory headshot although he did walk it back in some in some of his other comments but

what do you make of that whole the whole imbroglio? Well, I think anytime you have a situation where players are, you know, dictating or predicting or promising or like putting bounties on guys in the line of scrimmage and those kinds of things. I just don't use any part of that in the game, because I'll tell you what it does. It changes careers. I mean, and I, and I, and I'll be exan it and it gets people fired. And I'll use you what it does, it changes careers. And it gets people fired.

And I'll use the example, there was a game in Saskatchewan when our good friend Paul LaPolisse was coaching the Ottawa Red Blacks, and there was one of those incidents at the line of scrimmage, right, where a guy told Jeremiah Mazzoli, essentially, that he was coming for him, and on the next play, he came through, Garrett Marino was the player, wrapped him up by the ankles, like broke his leg and honestly, Jeremiah Mazzoli who's now a backup in BC and not playing very well this season, it changed his career.

Like if you look at the arc of his career, it came off of that moment. And so anytime I see something like that, I kind of harken back to that and I just realize how at that point it kind of stops, it can stop being a game, right? When you're starting to your livelihood at stake. So I know Trevor Harris kind of talked about that and then walked it back. I think that's something the league needs to be very diligent on. Absolutely. Nailer, the Bills training camp starts up next week. I imagine you're giving down at John Fisher's College again this year? I absolutely will be. Don't know if I'll be there for the opening day. I may be in Pittsburgh for the... last year I was at the Aaron Rodgers day with the Jets on opening day. This year it looks like I'll be Aaron Rodgers day in Pittsburgh and then I

will shuffle off to lovely Pittsburgh, New York for the Bills camp. Yeah, there's more storylines going on in Pittsburgh right now. I think we can all agree that that is the place you want to be. Pittsburgh to Pittsburgh. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, no, look, I think, I mean, the thing is in Pittsburgh is just everybody wants to see what that looks like. Like Aaron Rodgers as a stealer, like an organization that bows to no one, right? That's been the stealers' DNA throughout their history. To a guy who the last two teams he was on, demanded that everybody bow to him.

And not just in the culture, but in the actual who was on the roster, who's coaching, all those kinds of things. So it is unlikely partnering, and I think that's what fascinates us so much. And then the other part of it is, it's not like you go into a garbage team. I mean, with the Jets, yeah, on paper they look good

because they don't spend a bunch of money, and people say, oh, this is going to a garbage team. I mean, with the Jets, on paper they look good because they've gone out and spent a bunch of money and people say, oh, this is a Super Bowl ready team. And I'm like, yeah, I don't think this is a Super Bowl ready team. I've just never seen, I just never in the NFL, I've never seen that where a team just goes out and buys a bunch of guys from different teams and they all look great on paper and the team goes on a run. It just doesn't happen. It didn't happen with the Jets.

But this Steelers team is good. And so I think that's the other part that intrigues is that you don't necessarily need vintage Aaron Rodgers for them to be a decent team in the AFC. Yeah, it's not just Rodgers either. It's also DK Metcalf and Jalen Ramsey. There's a lot of interesting names. A lot of egos. A lot of egos in one locker room.

How many teams has Jalen Ramsey been on now? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, well, Ramsey, been on now? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, well, and what's going on with TJ Watt, too? What's your read on that situation, Nailer? Honestly, not something I've been up to, so I can't give you an up and close on that one, but I think it's the kind of stuff that goes on at this time of year. This is kind of an interesting time for the NFL.

It's an absolute dead zone. The NFL has turned into a year-round business, but from about June 13th till July 23rd, it is dark. So anything that's rattling around kind of becomes a story. And as we know, whether the NFL is participating and players are made available or not, the chatter never goes away. Nailgun, what's the over-under going to be on turkey burgers next week? Oh boy. What do you got? How many days are you there? I'm going to say three. Three and a half. Over-under.

Three and a half. I'm going under. I'm going under. Oh. Yeah half over under. Three and a half over. I'm going under. I'm going under. Oh, yeah. Going under. Are there other options on the menu that we're not that we've not heard of? St. John's. Like it's the place on planet earth for a turkey burger.

Is it not? It is. No, there's, there's a lot of St. St. John's fishes. They love the kind of Pittsburgh has lots of good, lots of it. Thanks. A very idyllic place.

You guys ever been there? Oh yeah. Great. Sound. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very. It's very, it's like a summer, you know, with all of the kind of nastiness and intensity of the NFL. Pittsburgh, New York and St. John Fisher is like this kind of idyllic oasis. Everything's very peaceful and calm and lovely and all that stuff, and then it gives way to the fall and the nastiness that is the national football league.

But I am looking forward to the Bills too. I think this will be, this is a very intriguing year for them. They've put so much capital into defense and they've just kind of, and I want to say they put the offense on autopilot. I think the Josh Palmer signing is going to be significant. I think Elijah Moore is going to be significant. This is a guy who's had quarterbacks throwing to him in Cleveland and with the Jets through

his career. So I'm sure he's going to welcome, you know, lining up alongside Josh Allen. But you know, Josh is in his prime. The offensive line is the same as last year. You know, they've added a couple of pieces that I think are going to be upgrades over what they had last year. And we'll see if all that drafted free agent capital on defense is going to pay some dividend. Dave, thanks very much.

Appreciate it. Hey, my pleasure. Thanks guys. Dave Nehler, CFL NFL insider, the Turkey burger. Seasoned gamer or just video game curious? This Week in Gaming is the podcast for you. We break down the latest in the world of video games from basics to beyond.

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