OverDrive - OverDrive - August 13, 2025 - Hour 1

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes, Keegan Matheson and Dave Feschuk for Hour 1 on OverDrive! The guys discuss the Blue Jays' win against the Cubs, Jose Berrios' performance and where he sits in the team's pitching depth chart, George Springer's return to the team, Shane Bieber's stint with the Bisons and Anthony Santander's injury for the roster. TSN Football Insider Dave Naylor joins to discuss James Cook's contract extension with the Bills, Buffalo's journey to the Super Bowl and Shedeur Sanders' next steps with the Browns.

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Fan-Duel, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. All right, here we go, overdrive, off and running. TSN 1050 on the TSN app, your home smart speaker. And up on TSN2, Brian Hayes. Dave Festruck of the Toronto Star, and there is my main man, Keegan Matheson, who sent the text earlier this morning. We're going golf shirts? Or we go on jackets?

I had a heart full of hope. You jammed you up badly, man. I had to come in and do some TV. Like, I'm a suit guy today, which doesn't mean you have to go suit. I don't want to be the guy to break it up. And I had to be the suit guy yesterday. I was in pregame with Hedger doing some stuff at the podium here. And post-game being Hedger were down the dome.

So I had to be full suit and tie yesterday. This is a step down. Okay. We're doing okay. It's all good. Looks good, though. Looks good. That's one thing I appreciate you about Jonas.

Because Jonas would never ask that. Does not make a difference. He's showing up in a T-shirt. Yeah. You're in a full suit. Black tie. He's just a t-shirt guy. I can be in a t-shirts.

Jonas, it makes no difference. He'll be a t-shirt in the summer, hoodie in the winter, period. Yeah. No, I have a great appreciation for that. And I feel like, Jonas, I will text him and get an answer on this. I feel like he probably has not worn a tie. Ever. Maybe ever.

Like, I don't have a mental image of him wearing a tie. And I know he's done TV stuff before. He's got to have. But he's a wedding guy, like January wedding, no tie. definitely summer wedding no tie but I would guess it's been a long time since Jonas pulled one out and if he has a tie he's got like two shades two ties one option take it or leave that's who I was a few weeks ago see you later ESN life with me has really opened up the ward now you're a big

shoot you know I was that classic guy that had one wedding suit that kind of fit and as your weddings aren't too tight together and the same people aren't getting married you're okay but I've realized that when you're on TV back to back days you can't always be blue you can always be black so it's been a tough one, but it's all right. The wardrobe's expanding. Well, that's good to hear. And actually, I would challenge that because Jamie Noodles MacLennan wears black on black on black. Almost every time he's on TV. Maybe he'll mix in a gray.

Maybe. Got that cartoon character closet. Yeah. Like, it is not noodles in a jacket like you're wearing like a Searsucker jacket would shock the world. Wouldn't happen. It would never happen. Ever. But I want to see it happen. Let's make it. Get him a branding deal. I want to, yeah, let's get noodles decked out.

I love the consistency of noodles. Like, when he took us through his, Keegan, you weren't here. When he took us through his vacation wardrobe planning, like this dude goes on vacation for 14 days, he brings seven shirts, and they're the same seven every year. Yeah. They go into the closet for vacation. He brings out his vacation shirts, and then he wears them. And he's got one that's the five-star shirt.

Yeah. The nicest restaurants they're going to. That's his go-to. That's his go-to shirt for the five-star meal, and it's every year. Like, he doesn't change. Oh, and they've been tucked away now. And they'll come back out next July. It's a beautiful thing.

But, like, you have to respect that. Oh, I do have respect for it. I mean, I'm with you. I think noodles has made the right call. Like, he established this is what's happening. I'm wearing, I'm going to wear a black suit, maybe a gray suit, gray shirts, black shirts, black ties. Like, once you start bringing some color and then people kind of have an expectation, like, oh, look

at this guy. He thinks he's got style. I have no style. I have no style. But I get hooked up with great suits and that's it. Is a man who stays the same weight year to year? Can't relate. That is a challenge.

It is a challenge. It must be steady. You've got to be steady on that 171. Noodles is very steady. He's a runner, right? Very steady. Yeah, exactly, man. He's got no palate.

He doesn't eat anything. Like, Jonas has been, I've known Jonas for almost 20 years, and he has looked the exact same for 20 years. No idea. And he's going to look like that. 20 years from now. You're right. Like, I'll see him grab a beer with him when we're 65 and he will look at the exact same.

Yeah. I will be a bloated mess. But it's all good. Most of us would be, if you want to kind of take bets on Toronto Sports Media dude, most likely to get to 100, Jonas is like minus 1,000. Dude, he's, exactly. Most likely to clear 70 is where we've got to start with this. Well, that's a lot of plus numbers on that board.

Those are some morbid, morbid odds. But see a fan who can hook us up, dude. Yeah, if we can, you know, we'll go down the whole list, maybe a little bit later this week. Him and Masters, like, they're eating, yeah, cut up. Rabbit food, dude. Rabbit. The rabbits. It's the boat to 100.

Yeah. That's what. Oh, Jonas's 100 in his sleep. The lock. You know, and now with like AI and all that, maybe 200, 250, who knows. I like seeing the master's bags of granola and stuff he's got on the road. Oh, yeah. It's not how I live.

No. Maybe it should be. No. He'll be covering Willie Nealander's grandchildren. I know. He'll be right in the scrum. Yeah. Bill Nealander the third.

He'll be right in there. Anyway, good to see you guys. Are you heading down to the park tonight? Because we got a big one with the Cubs in town again. I mean, that was an impressive outing by Jose Barrios. And I think that's the topic of discussion. Like last time we had you in, we were talking about the projection of what the staff is going to look like.

And at times it feels like you're being a little bit presumptuous or maybe put in the car before the horse. It's only the middle of August. but they've kept their head above water, right? They lost two or three in L.A., but they got the win on Sunday. They get a day off yesterday. They come home. They spank the Cubs.

Now you can, I feel like they put themselves in a position. We're certainly going to the playoffs is something that we can talk openly about, right? Doesn't necessarily mean they're going to win the ALE East. Boston continues to play, okay, the Yankees are kind of hit or miss. But what this rotation is going to look like when Bieber gets up here, if Scherzer stays healthy and where Bereos falls I find really fascinating

because I do kind of feel like he's got to pitch his way back into the top three of this staff if he's going to be in contention to do that let's say they're in a wild card round or if they end up in the DS what's it going to look like those first three starts that's the big variable right now there's not a lot of variables on the offense

it is what it isn't good but Berrios right now if you start the playoffs is probably by number four and that's the first. And that's a good thing. He's a guy that's going to help you get to the playoffs, but helping you win in the playoffs is a bit of a different conversation. And that's the entire shift that we're having around the Blue Jays right now. You're not talking about getting invited to the dance as the third wild card, which has never excited me. It doesn't excite me this year. But it's about

beating the Dodgers, beating the Brewers, beating the big dogs. And that narrows the conversation to games one, two, and three. Right now, I think that's Shane Bieber and Kevin Gosman, and one and two, and I think it's Max Scherzer in that third game. Bieber's year number one, even though you haven't seen a play in the majors in a year plus. I think he's got a damn good shot at it right now. If he looks anywhere close to normal, I think Kevin Gosman can be that as well. We've seen it a couple times lately with Gosman, and then we've seen times where they lay off his splitter, and it's really tough.

But Gosman has that ceiling. I don't know if we see that in Barrios right now. And again, I'm being hard on a guy who's one of the most consistent pitchers in Major League Baseball. I'm so impressed by Jose Barrios, but you need someone who can take over a game. Gosman can do that. I think Max Scherzer can still do that once or twice more, maybe at age 41.

But Bieber, his last couple of outings were fantastic. He'll pitch again in two days in Buffalo. If he can come back normal, 95% of normal, I think he's at least the number two here. Yeah. Well, wasn't Perrios, though, Kegan, like, the irony is, like he was essentially lining up to take over a game. The last time he pitched in the playoffs in the infamous, you know,

Pacoecucci spreadsheet pull of Barrios, right? And so he's got big game kind of in him, I think, and he's shown it. He just didn't get a chance to really play it to its full extent. That was the best I've ever seen him pitch. And I'll remember for the rest of my life speaking to Barrios and the clubhouse after that game. Because he is the ultimate pro. He'll never say anything wrong. But he was staring a million miles into the distance over my shoulder.

And trying to say the right things, but you could tell that he had just, imploded after being brought out of that game the best I've ever seen him pitch because there was a little edge to it like there was a little spice to how he was pitching that day it's his old team yeah exactly and I can still remember seeing you say Kikuchi running the door and grabbing the arm of the guy next to me saying what is happening it's that game if you're burrios no one needs motivation in the playoffs that's a silly narrative no one would be more motivated than virillos if he gets a game four and I don't think you're going to be trying to bring

guys back too quickly. There's still a game four base for someone. Yeah. The LCS. And I think that is the reals probably at this point. We just, we haven't seen that upside of him. Even yesterday, it's a great outing. You're putting up a zero in the runs, but you walk four, you strike out three, you're needing to make big pitches and big spots, which the pessimist in me and the

playoff-minded person in me says you're one pitch away from it being much different. So, interesting couple months coming up for him. Yeah, I feel like there is a very good chance. and when he starts a playoff game, that he's going to be in a similar position to the one he was in Minnesota a couple years ago, where I think John Snyder, Pete Walker,

Ross Atkins, Mark Shapiro, who we all know have a say in what's going to happen come playoff time, and I think basically on a daily basis around here, the rope will be short. Like the rope will be short, and there's a chance they give them the two times through the rotation, and then the next guy's coming out.

Now I don't know who that would necessarily be because Kikuchi's not here and that was a righty going to a lefty and it kind of made some sense before the game on a stat sheet but it obviously didn't once the game played out but it is it does say something about what we're going to be talking about over the next six to seven weeks where it's really uncertain what this rotation is going to look like because Bieber might be your game one starter the guys in Buffalo

yeah like he's never pitched at the Rogers Center as a bleach like the guys in Buffalo and you know I think Gosman for me Gosman post All-Star break has looked like Kevin Gosman like that I got a lot of time for that he's one of my three guys I don't know if he's game one game two or game three

but Gosman's in my top three it's Bieber and Scherzer which are the ultimate wild cards because of who they are what they represent but ultimately what they can be at their height now Scherzer's not getting in a time machine and going back to 2015 like you're not going to get a seven or

eight-inning gem out of Scherzerr, he demands the ball for 105 pitches and shakes off the manager and says, I'm going out here, I'm going to horse this thing, and we're going to win this ball game. That's not going to happen. But outside of the home runs, which he gives up one, every outing, guy looks pretty good to me. Like Scherzer looks pretty healthy. He's got pretty good stuff. He's got that aura to him. Yeah, I could see Bieber Scherzer Gosman being your one, two, three in some capacity, which is pretty incredible. incredible when you consider where we were, you know, six weeks out from spring training,

where Scherzer still hadn't signed yet, and Bieber was, you know, recovering from Tommy John in Cleveland. It's fascinating stuff. It really is. But, I mean, so many unknowns, right? Like, that's the fascinating thing to me is, like, I would love to be in some of these meetings where there, it's got to be a day-to-day thing with this team.

Like, are we going, like, first of all, before we get to who's our top three of the playoffs, It's like, how do we get to the playoffs? How do we bring Shane Bieber into the fold effectively and get him up to number one starter speed, which is a whole thing they're going through right now, to your point? What is he pitching in Buffalo tomorrow?

Friday. Friday in Buffalo. And, you know, finishing up the rehab, you know, when he'll get here, who knows. But, like, are you going to go to the six-man rotation? Well, Eric Lauer is sitting there saying, why do you not mention my name ever? Like, no one's talking about Eric,

lower and except every time he pitches you're like yeah probably kind of stop some bleeding for you if need be like he's put up good numbers he's a lefty which also is something that they don't have that matter rotation i think it should there's a world in which they match up against a certain team that's weak against lefties and weak against his pitch profile they get much fancier than just lefty right of course there's a world where he's considered for this as well and then you have the ultimate variable of treya savage than one prospect who was suddenly the hottest name in town yes going to come up. Can you explain where that came from? Because I know I've been off for a while, but like the last couple of days, I'm just seeing this idea that you savage could be

someone who starts a playoff. Like forget being like a change of pace or comes in and just blows the doors off someone for three outs in the seventh inning or eighth inning. All of a sudden it's like, I'm picking up on crazy vibes around this guy and what the possible expectations could be internally. Forget externally. Yeah. Like forget, you know, Blue Jay fans talking about it, guy, this could be really cool. Like, it seems to be some smoke, like, within the organization in terms of what to expect out of this guy. There is.

This year in 25. Because they're not saying no. And Mark Shapiro didn't close the door. Ross Atkins didn't close the door, which by their standards is like, let it rip, you know. And you savage is so incredibly gifted. He's not going to start playoff games. I think we can reel that back in. If he gets called up, it's probably in that two or three inning range.

David Price, way, way back when he debuted with. the raise. It's kind of the ultimate example of that working. You Savage, I think, in our updated rankings is number 26 in baseball. He's the number one guy. Like, this is a legit, legit pitching prospect. And as we've learned with Nate Pearson, with Ricky Teetam and all these number one guys over the years, as soon as they're close, cash in. Man, elbows are not meant to last. Shoulders are not meant to last. Cash in when they're good enough. And we talked about this a bit yesterday on the show. But the question that's left is, is he better right now than you're worth?

reliever. Like, it's pretty simple. Is he better than on that depth chart, Tommy Nance, Mason Flew Hardy? He's more talented. He's more talented than a lot of pitchers on this roster right now, raw talent. And while I don't think he's going to be starting, he's suddenly right there in AAA, man. He's going to start tomorrow. I think after that he'll come in behind an opener. But that is another wild card. You've got a few of those. You need a couple of them to cash, though, on that high end. Right. Yeah, no, exactly. And it sounds like George Springer has been clear is he playing tonight or he's going to play tomorrow and triple okay so springer um you know they've they've missed him and he's been a phenom for them this year i mean george springer's

obviously had a great year but it's been a little bit touch and go the last week like when's he getting down there one's he going to actually show up in buffalo is he going to have a rehab starter too which clearly was always going to be the plan coming off that that concussion but i guess he's cleared for tomorrow yet him and has returned last night so all of a sudden like son Tondare never comes up. I feel like I ask you the gratuitous update question every time I see you. But I don't, I think that's almost, just put it aside. We'll see you next spring. Is that really, like, why does that make sense, though? Wouldn't you want this bat as a pinch hit option down the stretch? It's tough because of how he started. And the other thing I keep coming back to is how his career has worked.

And with Santander, I've got a feeling, guys, that we're going to be sitting here in October and hearing, oh, that's what he had going on. Because it's been dripped out along the year. early on it was a shoulder thing and then midseason a month or so ago Ross Akin said there was a subluxation it popped in and out and then a week or two ago John Schneider said there's some labrum stuff so I'm thinking well guys

like this is adding up and all of this information is useful now I'm assuming that in a month or two we'll hear the full story of it and I'll say oh of course he wasn't going to come back but he started out really slow which is part of the injury but Santander's always been a really slow starter

like it reminds me of back when like Lorda's or he all was in Toronto, April would just suck. And you'd say, don't worry about it, May is coming, June's coming. If he starts to ramp up tomorrow, if a miracle comes down and his shoulders is healed, starts tomorrow, it's the 13th today, he's probably in rehab games in early September. Is he back for the last two weeks of the season? And by then, my question is, is that early again?

Like, is this the start of another season? And if he comes back and goes, oh, for 11, those first few games, what do you do? Yeah. And who are you taking off the raw? Like, who are you taking at bats away from? Because George Springer needs to be the D8. Yeah, if he's going to be thriving in that role. So it's awkward.

It's the most awkward situation on the roster. And frankly, I feel bad for Santandar. I feel bad for the people who are tiptoeing around this because it's just, it's awkward. There's no answer. Yeah. I mean, what would be especially awkward is if he has surgery on, like, October 15th. Yeah. Like, why didn't you just do that in May or June?

Like, I can't imagine they're delaying surgery this long. It's hard to imagine. It doesn't feel like that it's being handled, like, logically. Because my thing is, like, why? would it be awkward if he's ready to play and can hit? That wouldn't be awkward. If he's hitting. But the position is the weird one for me

with Springer at D.H. And I mean, it's the playoffs. George Springer can go play shortstop for all. I care. It's the postseason. You've got to make it work. But the performance would honestly be my concern coming into that. Like, after a few weeks of facing pitching at the complex

and then in single A, double A, triple A, is he ready to go out and face Tarek Scouble in a post-season? in game at that point. Can you catch up that quickly? Because Santander was supposed to be such a big piece. Like if you told me that Santander missed most of the year and the Blue Jays were right here, I'd say you're crazy.

He was supposed to be the piece that took them over the top. They didn't do much else to the roster. They added Andres Amenez who kind of lowered the floor. Yeah, in terms of his bad, for sure. It's been stunning how it's work, but I just don't know about the production coming back going into this. I don't care about the chemistry lineup stuff. They're adults. Come on.

But I just don't know about the production coming back. If he's facing minor leaguers for a few weeks. Well, you know what's happened is Barger and Clement have basically planted together to like surpass what you might expect individually from Santander. I mean, the way the two of them

have played, who needs Santander when you have Addison Barger and when you have Ernie Clement and the way that they've been playing? So, yeah, we get Jay's Cubs again tonight and Keegan's in here. We'll continue to look ahead to what we can expect tonight and throughout the rest of August. And

we got a big signing down in Buffalo. James Cook got his money, right? He's been in camp and kind of hanging around, but not really doing much. But he got paid, and the bills are in Super Bowl or bus mode. That's where they stand. Dave Nailer is going to be in studio, the nail gun on that, and more. Shadur Sanders suffering and injury. It doesn't look like he'll be able to play this weekend. What does that do for Shudor in terms of his chances of actually making the roster? I'll get into that with nail gun and more. Still to come. Dave Festruck's in here. Keegan Matheson. I'm Brian Hayes. overdrive continues.

TSN 1050 and on the TSNN out. All right, overdrive continues, powered by Fanduel, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. Brian Hayes, Keegan Matheson, Dave Fesschuk, and there's our main man, Dave Nailer around the table. What's happening in nail gun? Boy, lots, lots, high season in the CFL. Yes.

NFL camps now starting teams starting to round into form. We got James Cook done, watching the other hold-ins, and heading to Indianapolis this weekend to watch your team, the Packers, although I'm going to be primarily focused on a guy who probably isn't going to have a lot to do with their season, which sounds counterintuitive. But Taylor

Algrzma, who won the Heck Creighton Award, it's a quarterback at Wilford-Lorea University. First Canadian university quarterback to sign an NFL contract in about 40 years. Wow. And, I mean, it's an incredible step up when you think

about it. Like, with all due to respect to OUA football, you know, from going from that. And it's not only just going from OUA football to the NFL, you're playing a different game. And we talk about this all the time when guys come from the U.S. and they've got to adapt to, but I remember talking to Trey Ford after he went to Baltimore's minicamp.

And one of the things he said was just the timing's different, the cadence, difference, like, everything's different. So, on top of the step up in terms of the competition and the talent around you, you're also winning, you're also learning another game on the fly, but he'll get an opportunity to play, because Jordan loves not playing. So I'm looking forward to see it.

concerns me, man. Jordan Love like he's just, he was hurt a lot last year. And he took a step back. He was better than 23 than 24. Absolutely, he was. Absolutely he was. And the injuries, they just kept piling up and now he's already banged up and they've got a bunch of other starters who aren't even taking

reps. And I get it still early August, but it's not even early August. It's August 13 now. Like, it comes out you quick, man. In the NFL football period, if you don't get your reps in, it can hurt you. Yeah. So, you know, Surviving camp is a big part of it, but also getting your work in is a big part of it.

It does, and it's easy to dismiss. It's middle of August. How's this going to affect them in January? But there's a reason they have training camp. There's a reason. There's a reason. And we see it all the time, guys who either miss time in injury in camp or whatever reason. And it just kind of, especially with rookies, especially with rookies.

But it really can undermine your chances for success in the season by what happens in the summer. Big time. And you mentioned James Cook getting signed. He gets about 30 million guarantee. 30 million guaranteed, yeah. In Buffalo, that's big. I mean, he was around. He's talking a big game after he signed, too.

He's like, I was willing to stand in as long as it took. Not quite certain that that was going to be the case for a guy who's been in the league for three years. But we were speaking about it earlier on SportsCenter. I think it's, I think he's an integral part of their offense. I mean, that goes without saying. He's their number one back. He's got a nose for the end zone. Josh Allen can really feed off him like that backfield with Allen and Cook is a real.

Nightmare for defenses. Young guy, not a ton of touches. No. Like, still in his prime. Seems like appropriate money. I think it's good work for both sides. Yeah, I mean, the bills get this stuff done, right? If you look at them traditionally, especially with their draft, developed,

retain philosophy, and they tend not to reach and overpay for guys, and they tend not to, you know, try and chisel them down either, right? And even, it was funny, the language, if you look at the language that, say, is being used in Dallas, on the Michael Parsons situation. Right. And watch the language that Sean, McDermott and Brandon Bean used through this whole process going back to the off-season. It's like love James, you know.

In fact, Brandon Bean repeatedly referred to as Jimbo. That's not really hard language when you're in a negotiation, when you're calling your running back Jimbo. And they kept the communication up, even on Saturday, there was a conversation between McDermott and Cook about what he would do in the preseason game, and that's how it was resolved that he would warm up and not play. But it never, I mean, the most aggressive thing they said was during his hold-ins. last week, Sean McDermott showed up

practice one day, and he said, we're moving on, which is what you do when guys are hurt, right? You've got to move on, you've got to prepare with the next guy's up, but ultimately, you know, Buffalo gets this stuff done, and you're right, 26 years old in a month, very low odometer, and kind of a unique player, like he's not, he's never going to be a high volume

guy, he's never going to be a bright tackles guy, but the nose for the end zone that you noted, he can catch the ball out of the backfield, and he's a home run hitter. And in a league where we're seeing less and less of the bombs away NFL because of the way secondaries are playing deep and more of the game

is happening at the line of scrimmage than 30 yards down. Having the capability of a guy who could make one cut and go 70 yards, you know, maybe makes up for some of the deep throws that we were seeing in the NFL that there aren't as many of. So I've heard a couple of takes on this deal.

There's always the one that says don't pay running backs. I didn't know if the bills would ever give a second contract to right. I've also heard people say, no, no, you need to pay running backs, you know, Sequin Barclay is Exhibit A, and this is kind of like running backs can't get no respect, because he's not making a step forward from Sequan Barclay. Of course,

he's not Saquan Barclay, and nobody thinks he is. How do you see it? Well, I think, I honestly think sometimes running backs are like goalies and hockey, and I hate being like always making everything a hockey analogy, because that happens too often in this country. So I do this with like, it's not my need-your-go-to, okay? But it's like,

there's lots of good goalies, right? Lots of even really good goalies. But who are the guys that make the difference, right? That's a short list. It's probably about the same as the list of running backs, right? And James Cook slots in, I think he's tied with Josh Jacobs, who's the sixth highest salary in the NFL. But I think what makes him unique is that most of the other guys, and Kyron Williams is a great comparable. The Rams running back was signed last week. Got three years, 33 million, 23 of it guaranteed. It's a real contrast to James Cook.

Kyron Williams was on the field for like 84% of the Rams snaps last year. He touched the ball 43% of the time they ran an offensive play. James Cook, 45% of the time on the field, or 47, less than 50, 24% of touches. So the Bill's philosophy is we're going to keep this guy fresh. He's got a low odometer. We got two complementary backs that we situationally are trust in the right situations. And James Cook will be our explosive guy. where Kyron Williams is very, very different.

So he's a running back whose skill set is really suited to the way the bills have designed their offense. Well, it's also a scenario here where Buffalo is, they're going to win their division. I think they're going to finish. They got the cream puff of cream puff schedule. They got such a soft schedule. Even outside of the division. Yes, exactly. Holy smokes.

Yeah, compared to what Baltimore is going to face in Kansas City. They're going to play every game. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, I think they're going to. to finish 13 wins, you know, barring an Allen injury or something crazy like that, or the defense just for whatever reason completely falls apart, which I don't believe will happen. So you're in Super Bowl or bust mo. Oh, yeah.

So the idea of moving off a talent like Cook does not make any sense. I don't think you can be in bold. Like if you have multiple rings, you might look at the running back position a little bit differently. We'll go find another guy. We're not going to overspend there. He gave us what he gave us. We got our ring. Like, Philly might feel that way about Barclay at some point.

You got us a win, a ring. Thank you for everything. Your next contract will maybe have a bit of a different viewpoint. But also, they don't have, like, all pro-offensive weaponry in Buffalo. No. It's more of a spread it out. Yes, they don't have Jamar Chase. No.

They don't have Travis Kelsey and his prime. Their most elite talent might be on the offensive line. Yes, exactly. Tackles. Exactly. Dawkins, who I guess was banged up a little bit today, too. And that's a concern. You need Alan, the offensive.

line and then whatever else you can get around them and Cook's a big part of that. So I think this made sense. I don't think they were ever going to be brash enough to say, forget it, we're moving on, or we're really going to dig in. Just get it done. Make sure everyone's in a positive mindset. Go chase the Super Bowl. Well, and if this was a team that

was at a different point of the cycle of chasing the Super Bowl, the best strategy would probably be to make James Cook play it out. Dare him not to play. Right. And go ahead. I dare you. 5.3 million. He hadn't made that much money in his career. He wasn't even a starter in college, right? So I dare you not to play. He plays. And if he has a great year, then

you know, you try and get the extension done with him. And if he doesn't, or he gets hurt for seven games and Ray Davis goes in and you can do the analytics on your offense, Ray Davis versus James Cook. You know, that's probably the way you do it if you're at a different point of the cycle. I think this is a good dollar for him as well to get the guaranteed money in this. On the surface, it's the same as the Josh Jacobs deal, but way more guaranteed money. It doesn't turn into that rolling option year that he's getting. And back to what you're saying off the top. I think it's just a good look for the bills. What the Cowboys are doing is

that, in the synthesis example. They take it to the edge every single time. Jerry Jones talks about players like they work for a rival company. This keeps the Bean and McDermid group as the group that takes care of their guys and does it properly. That rolls over. First hold in

they've had, and a guy who might have got this done if he wasn't the fifth guy they've given an extension to this season four of them from the same draft class, which is a real credit. You have four guys you want to end early. But I think that is the Buffalo way. And look, it's funny, because for

a while it felt like Buffalo wasn't a desirable location for players. But two things you see is generally guys want to stay there. And even more than that, I've never been around a team in sports ever where so many guys come back. The number of guys

who played for the bills under McDermott and being more than once is remarkable. And even, like, Tradavius White is the latest, right? Who's going to start at corner for them with Maxwell Hirsten still nursing an injury for the start of the season. He told his agent in the offseason, there's only one team I want to play for. Get me back to

Buffalo. It is, they've got something special going on there. Yeah, they do. They really do. And, you know, speaking of Dallas and Jerry Jones and Micah Parsons, and now Jones is saying, you know, I'm paraphrasing, but I don't know if he'll be available week one. I think they're playing Philly, too. They're playing the Eagles.

You might want your best defensive player. Your best player, period. It's a reality show. He's producing a reality show. That's exactly what it is. Knox needs to pull up its cameras from Buffalo, get down to Dallas. Edward was pointing out on, you know, that he does have a Netflix special that's being produced as we speak, and that could play

into the fact he's been taking the microphone every other day to say something. He can't wait to talk, Jerry Jones. Like, I think he'd like to win, sure, but I don't think that, that's not the be all and end all. No. Like, I think if you offered him a hypothetical, we'll give you a Super Bowl this year, but then you have to leave forever.

Yeah. He would say absolutely not. Well, it's funny. Like, absolutely not. Super Bowl or shut up. He'd rather Owen 17 and be talking every single day. So historic, just a historical story for me on the Dallas Cowboys. So I covered a lot of National Hockey League before I ever covered much NFL. And you guys have been in a lot of NHL dressing rooms. Not a lot of drama, not a lot of color, not a lot of sound bites, right?

And I covered the freaking Ottawa senators under Jacques Martan for 11 years, okay? Now, you talk about, even by NHL standards, that room was a killer, like in terms of guys to say anything. So I go to cover a Giants at Dallas playoff game. It was the year that the Giants went on and upset the Undefeated New England team in the playoffs. And it's at the old stadium in Dallas. And I go into the locker room afterwards. And there was so much going on in that locker room. It was like my entire career of covering the National Hockey League was exceeded by one post-game room in Dallas,

which included Jerry, like surrounded by the mega. It was the time that T.O. did the, that's my quarterback, man. Like, I'm standing five feet away. No way. Performed that. Flozell Adams is, like, threatening reporters who get near his locker. I mean, I'm just like, where am I? Yeah, exactly.

This is, but that's the circus. That's the circus, that's it. Well, and the crazy thing is that when he first got there, he bought the team in 89, I believe, and they win those three Super Bowls. Those teams were insane. Insane people, but it worked. It worked. So he's like keeping up with the insanity without the actual winning.

You know, he's like, let's do 30 years of the biggest, craziest personalities ever, but the three Super Bowls, we don't need those. You know, I mean, it's a wild, wild story. He wants to play madden in real life. Yeah, exactly. And for a guy who likes to sound so smart with money, he's awfully stupid with money at times. He waits to do these deals late.

And loses. We've seen it with DAC. You wait and wait and wait and wait. Every single week, a deal gets announced that is the biggest for this position ever. It only goes up. It only goes up. And Parsons, you look at the stats, like the analytics. I saw it last week.

When he's on the field, I want to say throughout his career, they've had like the second most efficient defense in football. And when he's not, they're like 29. Pay the difference makers, man. It's absurd how much of a difference maker he is. And like that's the guy you're going to draw the line on, your pass rusher,

you're a machine, a guy who terrorizes offensive coordinators. Although Naylor, to play the devil's advocate on this, these guys doing these holdings, they're basically saying to the, to the owner or the management that I'm not willing to miss a $50,000 fine a day to miss practice.

Right. So I'm showing up. And I'm going to go half-hardt's through the drills. Is there somebody that's going to test that and say, if you're not willing to give a 50 grand a day, you have the guts to give up a full game check, which is going to be a lot more than 50 grand. Well, and that's, I mean, who we're trying to think of guys we saw who did that.

Levion Bell did it for an entire season. Basically edited his career. Well, it was nuts, right? Because unaware that even as talented as he was, the most replaceable position, maybe in sports, certainly in the NFL. But I'm trying to think of other guys who've actually, like, Emmett Smith did it. There's been defensive players. And it works.

And they went 0 and 2. And it works. Now, if they've done 2 and 0, you know, is it different. Chris Jones did it with Kansas City. Last year he missed the first game. Last year of the year before, remember after they won the Super Bowl? He was up in the suite. Right, right.

And I think he missed one game, maybe two. With the money in the NFL today, you are talking, I mean, because first of all, the guys who are doing this, well, some, I shouldn't say necessarily, some of them were coming out of the rookie contracts. But for the guys who are not in rookie contracts, the money you're talking about leaving on the table per game, even if you are on this deal that you think is crappy, I mean, you'd have to really have the courage of your convictions to sit out. I mean, it sounds nuts, but guys could set out a million dollars a week. Yeah. Or you've made so much money, like Cam Hayward down in pit. It's made a lot of money, and he's like, I can't play off $15 million or whatever it is. And I think a lot of people in Pittsburgh are thinking, dude, you're not a young man.

No. You just got paid more. I believe he got the highest amount of money for a non-quarterback over the age of 32 or whatever it was in NFL history, like a year ago or two years ago. And now he's saying that's still not enough. And I think people in Pittsburgh might be willing to accept that he could challenge that. Like, he may actually say, I've made so much. money, I don't actually have to play for $15 million. Right. Like that's the other end of the spectrum.

The thing I don't get on a guy like Cam Hayward is, what's your why there? Exactly. You're making $15 million, so you made a lot of money. You've made $150 million. You're on a team that might have a chance to go somewhere. I get it more in a James Cook, right? Because it's like you want to try to, you're making the NFL as a starter, your goal should be to try to make generational money, right? And when you're a running back, if he played on the final year of his rookie contract, I mean, we've seen running. You struggle, you get cut.

There was a thing I did where we looked at how many times, like, teams that were winning Super Bowls had switched their running backs within like two seasons. It turns over quickly. So I understand that James Cook coming to a rookie contract at that position, yeah, you try to leverage it now.

Absolutely. Dave Nailor in studio. Mary Kay Cabot down in Cleveland sent out a tweet earlier this afternoon that Shador Sanders suffered an oblique. injury throwing earlier in a joint practice with the Eagles and was held out, means he probably won't play on the weekend. He took two touchdowns.

You know, he looked okay. Like, he looked okay, and he looked like Sanders. That's what everyone kind of said. If he's got time, he's patient, he's very accurate. But if he misses, like, week two of the preseason due to injury, what happens here? Because Stefansky sent out the depth chart,

I believe he was still number four on it. So if you're hurt and you can't play, how do you move up to even number three? And furthermore, how do you possibly make the team? You can't be a fourth quarterback on a roster. Well, I mean, a team could carry three and put one on the PR, right? Yes. That would be the option.

But wouldn't it be him? That's what I'm saying. Like, Flacco's going to start. You think of where this started? Like, I mean, I was at the Combine in February, where he was like legit top 10 pick conversation. The idea that he'd be clinging to a practice roster coming out of camp, I don't think is a comparable for it.

And, look, I haven't, I didn't get to Cleveland. I was actually trying to get there and just schedule didn't work out because I wanted to go down there and just catch the vibe about what that was like down in camp and watch practice and see how the reps were being distributed. But I don't know what you do with him because obviously Cleveland didn't prioritize him. He's not even the first quarterback they took, right?

And yet, if you think that there's something there, it's not going to be determined by the end of August. Like it might be two or three years of development away and are they committed to that? and what kind of noise comes with that? I have so many questions around this guy. Yeah, big time. The quarterback on that roster is weird.

Joe Flacco, you're not really trying to win right now if you're the Browns, are you with 40-year-old Joe Flacko. And if there was anything to Kenny Pickett, maybe that makes a bit of sense, but I don't know if there is. And then two rookies that you took together. Well, and there's a fifth guy who's making more money than anybody else in the league. None of it makes. The Sean Watson.

And that's just not even, you can't play. I'm trying to think the last time a team took two quarterbacks to draft recently. Well, Washington did it with RG3. They took him and then they took Kirk Cousins. And New England took Drake May and Joe Milton. That was just last year. But it's pretty rare because you create this log jam. I mean, it's hard enough to find reps for a rookie at training camp.

Never mind, too. Yeah. Well, that's the whole thing, right? Especially when neither one in that case. is like your guy, like at least in New England, it's Drake May and Joe Milton. Yes. And even at the start in Washington, it was RG3 and Kirk Cousins. But these two guys are, ones, what?

Yeah, third round pick and a fifth round. Yeah, Dylan Gabriel went in the third. I've never seen anything like that. And none of those fifth rounders brought ESPN to your camp every single day. Right. And all that attention and annoying your coach every single day with questions with a fourth string quarterback. It's a great, it's a great, sorry, go ahead.

No, I was I was going to say, like, the fact that you're talking about the Cleveland Browns is an amazing thing. I mean, there's value in Stewart of Sanders for that alone, right? Like, I don't know about a borderline player that has had more attention on him. Well, it's Tebow, it's Mansell-like. Like, that's what it feels like. The NFL teams love having attention on their quarterback, so they don't mind it. They don't love having attention on their backups, right?

And one of the qualities, I mean, I always said this about Doug Flutie. One of the reasons that Doug Flutie played up here so long when he was clearly good enough to go back and play there was if he's not starting, nobody wants them there. Because if Doug Flutie's your backup and your starter has a mediocre first three or four games, cameras are going there. Get Doug Flutie in there.

And I don't think Doug was, certainly in his prime, was wired to be a backup. He had to start in Canada because I don't think teams would have wanted him there. He's a magnet for attention. And he's not like a guy who's craving it. It just finds him. He's just one of those guys who, because of the magic of things he did. And teams just, you know,

and actually ultimately look what happened Buffalo committed to him, made him their starter. They had a bunch of success, and the minute they decided he was at their starter, it kind of didn't work anymore, right? He really ended up out of there. Yeah. Yeah, I'm very curious to see what they end up doing

because even the owner down in Cleveland a couple of weeks ago, he basically took himself out of the whole operation. He's like, it was the same owner, by the way, who told them to take Johnny Mansell. Yeah, and allegedly because he's a good guy. He's the whisperer. He's a quarterback guru.

But Johnny Manzel might have been Shadur Sanders before Shadur Sanders. Right. Like, we might have seen that free fall happen, right? And also, Manzell should have gone in the fifth round. Yes, that's what I'm saying. If they don't take him at 24th of the first round, where does he go next? It's a great question. He might have been Shadur Sanders before.

Yep, that's right. Before we ever saw that. And of course, it was in Cleveland. Of course, involved the Browns. Yeah, it was in Cleveland. And speaking of side shows that actually have some talent, Taylor Swift, of course, over the NFL universe yet again. I think this is like the New Heights pre-show, right?

Because they get released when Overdrive is over, New Heights will be released. Well, they're smart enough. They don't want to compete with us. The Kelsey Brothers and Taylor Swift can't meet the four of us. Come on. So that'll be fun, obviously, you know, the biggest star on the planet, talking to the two biggest podcasting stars in the NFL.

But I was curious about your take on Travis, who actually still was a football player, along with being a podcaster. And, you know, he had the big piece in GQ where he's posing with alligators and pythons and shirtless and doing all the glamour stuff. But he also had this sort of, you know, profile where he made it very clear that he wasn't happy with his standard of play these past two years. The fact that he went back to his old trainer. He acknowledged maybe the trappings of celebrity got to him a little bit. Sure. Yeah.

And now he's leaner, meaner, back to what he was. And older. And also 35 years old. That's my concern. And when you watch that, you know, you and I were both at the Super Bowl and New Orleans. Orleans and it was a pretty pathetic performance from more than one chief, but certainly Kelsey was in that group. Do you think there's real gas in that tank? Or how do you see that? I have trouble. I have trouble believing that. And I think sometimes there are guys who,

you know, the aura around them and everything they've accomplished keeps them in the game, maybe not in the game too long, but keeps their role more prominent than it should be and keeps their salary more prominent. Like the chiefs aren't going to cut Travis Kelsey, right? They're not going to go to them and say, hey, we don't think you're a $20 million. I don't know the salary off top of my head. So I'm making it. this up. But we don't think you're worth what we did in this, like, that's not going to happen. Well, he'd be cutting Taylor Swift.

But he'd be cutting Taylor Swift as well. No, I, I, I, I, I, I, the chiefs are going to be interesting to me because, you know, Patrick Mahomes, even last year when he's having an year, he's still like, in the betting favorite to be most valuable player. So, you know, well into the season. And it's now been like multiple years where he has not been among the most efficient passers in football. And you can argue.

about their weapons, and certainly, you know, a couple years ago, that was certainly the case, and we'll see what happens, you know, this year. But I think Kelsey's drop-off is part of Mahomes' drop-off. Now, Mahomes may play his best football of his life in three years, but right now, that whole offense, you know, they have really sustained this window, mostly on defense, you know, for all the accolades that Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelty get. So, no, I'm not buying the Kelsey stuff. No, me neither, man.

I think there could be a rude awakening coming there. I mean, I think Kelsey, you don't just find it at that age, right? And especially if you're speaking to celebrity, yet you're still doing your podcast and photo shoots and all that kind of stuff. I mean, 35 for a primary offensive player in football is he lumbered. Yes, exactly. Absolutely. And he's taking hits over his career.

You run through the middle of the field, you're going to get hit. He'll get the catch radius. It was actually, it was a fascinating article because his trainer was, to your point, Keegan, the trainer was pointed out that he's never been fast. Yeah. Like even, you know, he's going through, like, he's only a. 16 miles per hour, whereas the top guys are past 20 miles an hour. This guy's never

had to have like breakout speed to get open and to make big plays. He's just smart and he catches everything. He knows angles. And he's got a quarterback that will tell him be spontaneous if you have to. Right? That's a big part of it. There was one week the

bills were playing the Chiefs and McDermott does his media session and you know he gets all these very pointed questions, you know, whatever. And then one of the reporters just asked him and said, why is Travis Kelsey always open? Yeah. Great question, though. Great question. Great question. Great question. All right, nail gun, great seeing you, man. Thank you for doing this. Good to be here in studio. Enjoy it very much, guys. Thanks very much.

There is. Dave Naylor, a football insider. Steve Phillips, in about 15, 20 minutes, roleplay level of concern coming up. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on TSN2. All right, Steve Phillips, in about 15 minutes, roleplay level of concern coming up, where one of us will play the role of Shohay Otani. What's up with Shohay, man? Like, now, and I love how his agent. It can't just be Shohay, who's possibly ruining people's lives, allegedly in Hawaii.

His agent, too, right? He's just nearby. Yeah. Nearby. Yeah, just some other guy. Like, he's always got a fall guy with him. Showing is not into gambling. It was his interpreter.

Yeah, the interpreter. Sabotaging real estate? No, no, no, no. His agent. That's just his agent. His agent is not Shoehah. He didn't know what's going on. He just wants to go out there and play ball and have fun.

The dangerous of all these business deals, Imagine how many business deals he has, like consider Japan, North America, and like something like this, which is so far detached from him. It's not even like a shoe brand he wears. It's a community they're building. And I love the advertising unit that Shohei will have a unit here

and he plans to spend significant time here. You too for this price could have a dackery with showy. Absolutely. There's a lot of stuff being sold there, man. Yeah, I'm curious what's going on with old Shohei, man. For a guy who just has the most, you know, squeaky, clean image on the surface and could not be a more kind of perfect player, you know,

in terms of, you know, you could not invent this guy because if you did, people would think you were nuts for believing there could be a hitter this good. It's also a pitcher this good. I mean, it is, like, you wonder. What a coincidence. Just all this trouble kind of following show a way around. Very strange.

Something doesn't add up, man. I feel like Brian Winhorse. You know, why would that be? Now, why would you do that? The guy says hi to the umpire every single at bat. Yes. So polite. Yeah, he's so polite.

Wonderful manners. What's going on with show? Hey. I'm curious, man. I'm curious, but I have a feeling baseball is going to say, well, the beauty of it is. Don't worry about it. And Keegan, you know this from local experience. Like, when you claim not to speak English or you don't do interviews in English,

life is a lot easier. Yeah, exactly. You don't have to answer for anything. He doesn't do much media whatsoever. Right. He's untouchable. You know, he's way up here. Right.

And very, very controlled by design. Yeah, he's going to, he'll, when he hears Hawaii, that'll be, ah, sorry, guys. Quick question about Hawaii, end of discussion. Exactly. That is enough for show hey and company. Each year will pull that stunt, and then he shows up at the Hall of Fame and gives a perfect speech. One of the all-time great speeches. Great speech.

Yeah. Or the Miami-Marlins. Perfect. Never heard of them. The Spanish. Guys cracking jokes, landing punchlines. in English. In English.

He never spoke as a player. Yeah, can't do it. All right, Steve Phillips' roleplay coming up. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on TSN2. You've been listening to Overdrive, powered by Fandool. Fan Duel, bringing you everything

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