OverDrive - OverDrive - December 11, 2025 - Hour 1 - Darren Dreger/Pierre LeBrun

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes, Jeff O'Neill and Jonas Siegel for Hour 1 on OverDrive! The guys discuss the Maple Leafs' matchup against the Sharks, Toronto's goaltending depth, the injuries in the crease and if Dennis Hildeby has the number one spot in the net and Macklin Celebrini's spotlight in Toronto. TSN Hockey Insiders Darren Dreger and Pierre LeBrun on the insider roundtable and the Thunder's incredible season. 

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What the hell was that? What did you think we did 45 minutes already? I don't know why. We've been sitting in this studio talking for so long. I honestly blanked out and I'm like, we're just, we've been on the air for like an hour. Dude, you better get it together, man. You set a standard and you shake your head. head at me, and you've got to get it together.

All right, here we go, overdrive, off and running. PSN 1050 on the TSN app, your home smart speaker up on TSN4. Brian Hayes, the O'Don, Jevon, O'Neill, Jonas Siegel in here. Yeah, completely blacked out. We've been in here talking about coaches and controversies and Team Canada, and Craig Barubei at William Neelander. We've been having a great time. Well, there was one question that left unanswered that I would like answered now.

I said to Jonas about eight minutes ago, I said, what do you make of the Leaf's recent resurgence? And he said, I don't want to answer now. I'll save it for the air. Jonas, go ahead. So, you know what my job is, right? I just before, I don't care what your job is, man. I just want to let you know that me and Hayes are happy with the way they're playing. We're excited about it, and we think they've turned it around to some degree where it's way better than what we saw before, which was nonsense.

So you have to be a little bit jacked up. I know you're a reporter. You don't get jacked up like me and Hayes, but we're somewhat excited. Might you say you guys are driving a wagon? Possibly. We could be back where we started. Is the wagon happening? We never said wagon.

We never said wagon. Someone sarcastically. The guy in the chariot. What is the person who leads the wagon? No idea. That's you. That was me. Anyway, what I was going to say is my job requires me to like not just like

yeah, they're winning, everything's great. Like, I kind of have to, like, pick through the weeds and kind of see what's going on. What's real? What's not? What's real? I think there's some real, right? The way that they play defensively better, right?

They're not giving up a million odd man rushes every game. They're not turning pucks over. The goaltending has been exceptional. You get 9.56 goaltending. You're going to win a ton of games. And if you look at, like, this last little stretch, it's really like the last five, right? Since that Pittsburgh game, I think they've played better.

Has it been perfect? No. Is it much better than it was? Yes. Am I convinced that everything is fine? No. Okay. How's that?

All right. I'm curious why... There's a lot going on. Why do you feel you have to describe your job details before you give that... Because you guys think I'm like... You think like I'm overly negative? I'm just like... This is like my job is to like critique and like analyze.

Right. What's going on? Be objective and all that. I got you. I don't care if they win her. Now, the points are real. The points are real. Are they not?

However, they are 5-1-1, still not in a playoff position, very close, but like they have, you guys talked about this, they have so much ground to make up that, like, if you lose three in a row now, it's like, suddenly you're backwards. Absolutely. We're like, what's going on? Yeah, they've played, they've effectively played their card. They've played their 10, 15 game, horrible stretch where you can only do that once. So I need to see this for like a few weeks.

So I need to see this for a month. A week doesn't really do it for me. See, I look at it, I think that's accurate. And I think if you're looking at it through the lens of, okay, I'm focusing on the way the Maple Leafs play, regardless of anything else that's going around you, that is reasonable. But you do have to consider, there's so many problems.

Like I did, I do Montreal radio every week, and they're always talking about just in Montreal, it's just burning. Like Montreal is a disaster. And I came on and I'm like, well, yeah, it's trouble. But do you realize that there's trouble in Toronto? Ottawa is a mess right now. Florida is trying to get up off the map.

They're in Colorado tonight. Tampa prior to beating up on the habs the other night had lost four in a row. And Vasselowski's hurt and headman's out again. So everywhere you look, everyone looks out their back window and there's like, there's like a bomb fire that they think's a controlled burn. But they don't want to let it get out of control. Sure. And there's some separation right now. Credit to Detroit. They won again last night. They've won three in a row. They're on the West Coast. They're playing well.

Absolutely. They're leading the division. They're playing well. It's not like John Gibson has been great. His numbers are not very good good. But they're getting production from a number of guys that you would expect. Larkins having a good year. Raymond, you know, they're playing well. Boston. Marco Stern, we should throw him out there, coach of the year potential early in the season. But he has done a great job in Boston. Austin was going to be terrible. Right. Well, Geeky's a big part of it. They couldn't score, and Geeky is absolutely electric almost every night. You know, like Geeky scores all the time. Pashtenak's been banged up, and they're still winning games without them. But, yeah, I mean, in terms of the leaves, I do think it's important to point out the injuries that continue to be a part of the story.

Like Tanniv's still out. Now you've got Dakota Murmiss is out, and it's like, whoa, we've got Hank Thrun playing. night. Henry Thrun is playing tonight. Hankie Thruns. Hank Thrun is making his debut. Their number one goalie also is not. And their number two goalie.

And they're number two goalie. Like they're on their third goalie. And Hilderby's been great. And he goes again tonight. Well, no, we're getting close to a point where it's like, don't play Hilderby too much. Workload. I'm waiting for that article.

Oh, actually, James Mertl and I were talking about that this week. I think he's overdoing it a bit. Like, let's relax. What do you mean in terms of the idea of, skipping a start for Hilderby? Yeah. You got to play him, right, Jonas? If we're like a week from now

and like Wall's Till's and back, then it's like, okay, maybe you've got to mix in a game for Actiumov. But I don't know. Yeah, he's not going to play every single game if Wall and Ktholars are out. But he's going to play tonight, Saturday, and Tuesday. Yeah.

They're all home games. He's a young guy. And if I'm Hilderby, I am pleading to play me. I want to stand the national hockey. It's just like, hey. I want to play. They have twice this year overplayed their goalie to the point that the goalie got hurt.

And now if they overplay this goalie, the next guy has never played. I take. We don't even know what stole ours's injury is. You were right. He just skated off the ice and was never seen again. I take issue with that idea. You like that? No, I take issue with it that they overplayed Joseph Wall. He played seven games.

He played eight of nine games. So what's missing training camp? He is injury prone. Like, what do you mean? But that's the point that needs to be. brought up. And, and... He is injury prone.

And your other guy disappeared. We don't yell like that on this show. I just want to let you know. But that's on, again, the Stolar's story is, you're around the team. Is he around? Do you see him? Do you hear? I mean, he was in a picture after the game the other night.

Right. So, like, he's there somewhere. I've not seen him. Yeah, it's a pokeroo vibe now. It's the weirdest thing. But again, those were scenarios were... But that's a fact of, like, you have to consider that. If your number one goalie is hurt and your number two goalie or whatever,

whatever, 1B, has had a lot of injuries in the past, maybe take it easy. Like, maybe mixing a start for the other guy. Just because, like, you don't want to be in the situation where it's he'll to be actium of. I'm just not convinced it would have mattered. Okay. That's my point. You're right. It's Joseph.

Well, they could have said, you're off for a week, and then he comes back, plays, ah, knee injury, I'm out. I don't think. He's never been able to play like that. He never can. Right. He just to know that, no? Or you just say, you know what?

He happens to be healthy right now. I have to play him. Because I don't care if I play him once a month or if I play them back-to-back games in four and five nights, it's just as likely he's not going to be able to play for me. I mean, because he's just going to get hurt. Of the team is literally on record like three weeks before saying, like, we've got to manage his workload. But it's all relative based on the standings and who else is available and where you are for the year. Jonas, a big picture point that we brought up a couple weeks ago is if this is the case,

how would you ever expect to get to the promise land? It's a great point. The promised land in the playoffs. If we're talking about two-week segments, seven games every other day, and you can't get through that, how would anyone ever expect them to get to the promised land anyway? That's a great point.

I don't know. Like, both goalies are the same? Like, you don't, like, are you confident that both goalies could play two months if they needed to? Every other night? As of right now, no. The grind of playoff games, like, no. But that's my question, Jonas.

And I'm not expecting you to have the answer. I mean, it's not like we have a surgeon in here. is it actually the grind of playing or is it just the way they're built? Is it their mentality that it's like, I'm not playing through this? Common sense where if you have a guy who has suffered injuries every single year of his career,

maybe I'm not going to like overtax him. What is reasonable then? Your Joseph Wall. Like let's say he returns out of Saturday night. Yeah, let me just throw in one party. He makes $3.5 million, I think. So a $3.5 million dollar NHL goaltender, what the hell is the expectation?

You've got to get two or three games a month and then that's all good. You earn your paycheck. No. You get paid to play in the NHL whenever you're called upon. But you guys are talking about it. I get it to sports science

and I get it, you can't wear a guy down. But just talk about seven games. It was eight of nine. And I know what you're saying, but you're saying like ideal world, it's not an ideal world. Like he has been hurt all the time. So let's take a big picture approach

and say, you know what, that Carolina game? We're going to give that to Hill to Be. We want to make sure we don't overtax this guy and he gets hurt and now he misses a month and now we don't have Stollars and Wall for a month you know what I mean? Like you almost have to think beyond just the one game

and that's what they haven't done. Are you convinced that that would actually avoid injury? But I don't I don't know but I know that like the the likelihood of him getting hurt by playing more is higher like it just isn't it? I don't know I mean he's gone in in the past where he hasn't played much and then he just gets banged up like when he went into the playoffs and he couldn't play he had taken over for Sampsonov, right?

Hadn't played. Right? Sit there, you stretch, everyone's ready, then all of a sudden they need him for game seven, can't go. Why do they have innings limits in pitching? Very different. And again, there's context involved in that. If you're coming off Tommy John, sure.

But you're not. But you're not, but that's not who he is. It is. No, it's not. He isn't a major reconstructive injuries. It was last year, and I think he was like 43, something like that. and when has he had major reconstructive surgery he he has it that i know of he's been hurt every single year i understand that i get that and stoleers i get that that's why like even the stolars thing like

that there's a lot to that one but like he was playing all the time and it's like well also playing poorly also playing poorly but like he had never played that much it's like he gets hurt what do you think's going to happen i don't know like i just i i don't know how you can fight me on this Oh, I will fight you on this. I just, I don't take issue with the Leafs on this. Like, I think the Leafs are taking all these bullets. Like, you just got to bubble wrap guys. You have to be cognizant of who they are.

Also, like Travis Green said the other day, it's a win-loss league, and you're trying to win every game. Everybody says the head coach puts together a lineup to say, I got to give my team the best chance to win tonight. That's great. So why not play Matthews 30 minutes a night? Well, we had the conversation about Matthews, you and I a couple weeks ago. Yeah.

And prior to him coming back, and I said, I think it's imperative he plays because your season's dying, you're the captain, you're in year 10. You're not going to play now when are you ever going to play. And your reaction was, well, what if he, you know, he could tweaks? Like, yeah, he could, maybe he could, or he could come back and play well and help them win. Like, that's, I get, it's not a perfect science. I just think those specific cases, you have to take the context of the player into question. If you don't, like, you're just asking for trouble and they got trouble.

And they, and they've, it's self-inflicted. if this is just the reality with these two guys, and it may well be the rest of their careers, then how did they get to a point where they decided these are our two goalies now for the next three or four years? Because this GM is committed to both guys.

Right. I mean, they committed to Wall a year prior, like it was before last year. And that was Tree Living that gave him the deal. And then they commit to Stolars before the start of this season. Right. Again, tree living. Right. And you can like pick it apart.

and be like, well, why did they do that? But, like, in both cases, like, I didn't agree with the wall extension at the time. I thought you just wait. But you understand it, like, he's young, he is upside, et cetera, et cetera. Stolars played really well last year. Didn't play a lot. If he does it again, pick it'll be high. 40 starts and Wall gives you 40 starts.

But Jeff's question is the right one. It's like, is that combination going to be able to win you a cup? You talked about that game in Carolina. Do you not think they went up to Joseph Wall and said, hey, what do you think about going in Carolina? That's the wrong thing to do. What are you talking about, man? You ask your athlete. You're good to go in Carolina.

They're always going to say yes. They're not going to know what's best. You have to do it's best for them. Like I asked Craig Brubay before that game. I was like, are you thinking about starting Hildo to be in one of the next two? He's like, I don't know. Like, we'll see. And it's like, shouldn't you be thinking like, you know what?

This guy's played a lot. He missed training camp. See, I'm not convinced that Joseph Wall is wired the way you just described it. I think he would have said, yeah, no, I need to write off. I mean, this guy's had multiple opportunities to play in game sevens. I'm not doing it. Can't play. You don't think they went to him and said, we could really use you playing?

I don't think they said, sorry, we talked to the doc, you can't go tonight. Game seven, but we're not going to push it. I think Joseph Wall is very comfortable in saying, I can go or I can't go. To miss a game seven, you have to be very comfortable saying I can't go in this game. Exactly. Like, game seven, everyone's standing around. with broken limbs and they do whatever they can to get on the ice. Yeah.

There's been a lot of shocking stuff that we've seen with this team over the years. That's like, I don't know if that's in the top five, but it's in the top ten. One of the more wild scenarios of all time. It's tough five. Yeah, it might be tough five. Day of, wait a minute, who's playing tonight? Dude, I was, like, we had to do sports center panels and. I remember CJ called me.

He's like, yeah, there's where the, like, well, might not play. It's like, what? I remember Drake saw him. Joseph Wall didn't get off the bus. He's not, and I was, I couldn't believe it. Yeah. So, but what do you do, right? Like, so let's say, like, you decide, like, these guys can't take us where we need to go.

They wanted Markstrom, like, they tried to get Markstrom. They couldn't get Markstrom. Maybe Dennis Hilda B's a guy. Maybe. Dude, I would give him, and I told. I have no idea. I told these guys, give him the net until he claims out or. I thought that was a great point.

I'll give you that. To your point, like, the other guys haven't, like, they haven't, they're not, it's not Vasilefski. Like, if the other guy plays well. Right. Doors wide open. Look at Montreal tonight. Fowler's playing. Sure. He plays. If he plays, they're not going to Sam Montaubon. If Bill Hildebys good again tonight, he should get the game on Saturday night against the Oilers. I don't care if the other two both declare themselves healthy. I said it yesterday, they can flip a coin to which one goes on the bench with a hat and the other one goes up in the stands.

Well, Wall is likely going to be available Saturday. I am never assuming anything at all. No guarantees, but he practiced again today and he can technically come off I are on Saturday. Man, I'll tell you that's one thing. I know it's old school, and it wasn't like that long ago that I play, but if you took the ice, there was kind of an expectation that you were going to play. There was no five days of skating and then test this or test that. It was like, oh, okay, you did two laps.

You're good to go. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just, I look at it like, you know, the reality of their history is what it is. It likely will be their future. I think the play is, if they're healthy and hot, you play them. Let me ask you this. Because there's no way of stopping it.

They're going to get banged up. So if wall comes back, whenever he comes back, you're just going to play them all the time. Like you're not going to have any restraints. We're not going to, like, be careful, maybe start them twice a week instead of three times. I don't know. I guess that's possible.

Sure. You're in charge. That's not what you would do. There's no, so you guys are totally anti. Well, again, no, no, he's not playing back-to-backs. I mean, that goes without saying. Like, no one's suggesting that. If they have a crazy sketch, like I wasn't sure he would play in Washington

because it was the afternoon game where he played in Columbus and had a big workload two nights before. I thought maybe give him that day off, play him in Pittsburgh the next night. They didn't do that. But, you know, within reason, Jonas, I'm not saying I expect 70 starts out of this guy. That's not the world. But when you play him eight of nine, and you're basically, that's what you're doing.

You're putting them on that pace. I don't know. I just thought they were asking for trouble. That was not hindsight. Like I thought that at the time. I think desperate times called for desperate measures too. Yeah, but then like, their season was going down. Season, right?

Like, what would we be saying if, like, Hildoby hadn't come in these last couple games? I'm like, we'll see where this goes. He's played really well. But let's say he was awful. And, like, Wall, instead of having to miss a week and who knows how long on. Do you think Barubei and Tree Living would take the heat for that? 100%.

You guys would be. very upset, for sure. I think I'd look at the player and say, man, we need you to stay healthy here. When you're the Toronto Maple Leafies with the expectation they had, the desperation you have for victories and to get points and to get back into it, and if you

have to ask a guy, look, we're kind of we're desperate right now, you've got to play. The one goal, he skated off in Boston, and nobody knows what's wrong with them. So how can you blame the organization? Is it the organization's fault that he skated off the ice and disappeared in the thin air? They're not blameless. I don't like I don't know what the injury is

like they've never said that's they've decided not to say I don't know that would help their cause it would help if we had some context like why he was Is there a hundred percent an injury with him I don't know I did not see anything I don't think you guys did that's a reasonable question

like is there an injury or is there something else going on I don't know and we don't have the answer obviously the leaves do but listen you got San Jose tonight you get Star Power right you get Celebrity in town this it's not to the extent of Saturday night when McDavid's here even though this is the 11th year he's here and during the Canadian well COVID kind of burned us because we couldn't be in the rank but for the past 11 years when Edmonton shows up you can feel it like it's like all right make the big boys in town he's back home Celebrini's a peg below that I would say on Tuesday when Bedards here it's a peg below that but not far below it is he top five like must he yet I don't think so but he's top

I think if you're following the league closely and you realize and you're hearing through the grapevine man, this is a Celebrini kid every night but Dar did it again last night. Go on an assist. They won 3-0 at home. Like, it can't be far off. Like, it's not quite McDavid. I think Sid and Ovi still holding

McKinney McCar. I think the Colorado game but I don't think San Jose Chicago, even though they're still not great teams and they haven't been for a few years and they have faded. You want to see these two guys. It's pretty high. They've got to be top 10, don't they? In terms of, like, ticket sellers and creating a buzz in a market?

If it's the New York Rangers or San Jose Sharks and a chance to watch the Labrini, who did you work? Sharks all day. That's right. You know, who's also entered that for me as the Islanders? It's like, silly, you know what I didn't watch Shafar. I don't want to. I found that when I'm watching the games at night. I'm like, oh, I'll catch a period of the Islander, see what this guy's up to.

Before, it's like I would never watch. Never in a million years. Never in a million years. They were boring. They weren't that good. And you're just not watching it. It's like you know they're going to fall down the standings. And that guy's a game changer for the whole organization.

Like his confidence, because he can burn. Like obviously he can skate. But his confidence to hold the line, to make plays on the line, to jump into gaps. Be physical in his own zone, stand guys up. He is something else. I think he's the youngest player in the league. Like I think he just turned 18, like September or something. It's like, he's a real deal, man.

Imagine that guy at 25 years old. Well, that's what's crazy. is that you have to believe it's just going to get better and better and better you hope it's early in his career you don't want to put crazy expectations on his shoulders and there's a responsibility from the organization to surround all three of these guys

we're talking about with good players and allow them to continue to grow because if they don't have goaltending if they don't have a D partner in Schaefer's case if you don't have wingers and Bedard and Salabrini's case there's a limit to what you can do but I saw Craig in MJ they've updated their

team Canada list and these are their opinions. They're not projecting what's going to happen. They kind of went back and forth and picked who they would put on the team and they have Bedard, Celebrini, and Schaefer and I totally agree with that. That's a Jerry's percent of zero. You think this is zero percent? All three make it?

Zero percent. I don't think it's zero percent. Is it one percent? I'd go 15 percent. You can't name eight better defensemen than Schaefer that are Canadian. Well, the way you have to look at it is if you're just looking at that board right there, is Travis Sandheim been that much better than

Matthew Schaefer? I don't think he's been better than him at all. Not at in any capacity. Schaefer's been one of the best defensemen in the league. The thing is, John Cooper might say, I need Travis Sanhine to kill me a penalty in the third period with eight minutes left. I don't know if I can trust Matthew Schaefer to go out there

and do it. So that's where playing better up to now and needing a guy in a situation where he had in the past at the Four Nations and he can trust, trust is going to be a massive factor for John Cooper in that committee for who goes on that. 100%. Now, look at those, that top six is disgusting. Like, they have Sid on left wing with McKinnon and Bedard

and Celebrity with McDavid and Reinhardt. Like, there is not another team in the league here in the tournament that can come close to one of those lines. You put the best American line you've got, I don't think it's as good as either. of those two lines. I kind of like what they got there. I don't disagree. I love that lineup. I got to be honest. I love what they have Craig and MJ there. And I

would have Schaefer. Even if he's your eight defenseman. Just a beauty experience. Absolutely. Like, yeah. Ten years, remember P.K. Subban, when he won his Norris and 14, they put him on, and a lot of it was because it was so loud. He's in Montreal. He's going to win the Norris. How do you not put him on? He played one game in that tournament.

Wasn't it kind of awkward at that? It was. It was different because P.K. He was already in the league. He was already. in the league established he was in Montreal he was one of the most entertaining you know bigger personalities in a game Schaefer's a completely different story but for me I've got him there

like put him make him your eight defensemen and I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the tournament he's playing and playing a fair amount like yes he's 18 but let let him go they just don't typically I know I hear you and Jeff highlighted why like it's you go

they always think about the worst case scenario yeah it's gold medal game who do you want to put on the ice Yeah, it's kind of like your mentality with the lead goal tent. What if they get hurt? Yeah. I say, what if they thrive? But I'm an optimistic guy. Always have been.

Always have been. Anyway. Just to let you know, I got a good note from our good buddy, Donnie Nichols. He said, you own Jonas. That a boy, Don. Thank you, Don. Thank you, Don. Thank you, Don.

I appreciate that. Well, I mean, listen, everyone's got a different viewpoint. You guys are like the sports science duo, anti-sports science. We are well read. We're about getting it done. We're about, and you get it done or not. It's not going so well for those two guys.

But Hildaby, we're big supporters of the Hildobie's. Hildobie's our guy as of right now. Yeah, maybe it's the next Bennington, right? Maybe this is a scenario where it shows up and goes on a heater. I find it weird when people bring up that team and that example with this team. Like, you know what preceded all that, right? Them being a disaster? And firing the coach.

Valid. So. But they hired the guy. that is behind a bench now. Yes. Okay. All right, we'll come back and get into the game tonight.

Willie on the third line. Jonas, I want your take on how you feel about that. I have a game for you guys. Okay. We got a game? We got a game? We got to that.

I've put together a coach's meter, like a mood meter. But I'm not playing it. Because you've said I'm going to play games before and it's a dumb name and it's a dumb game. You love my game. No, I don't.

No, I think Jonas can bring the heat on this. I do. I feel good about this. Him and Dogey have been cooking something up in the last. Oh, really? You don't trust Doogie? He's going on a date soon.

Doogie's got things absolutely cooking on his side of the glass back there. He's not going on a date soon. I got you, Doogie. All right. The insider's coming up, and Luke will join us. Noodle's son on the clock tonight. What a Thursday night are we have Battle of the NFC South. This is a game people are dying for, right?

We got boxed falcons. It's a big game for Tampa, though. They've got to win this game tonight. Maybe we should get Rob Ray to make the pick for Noodle, son. Maybe Rob Ray should make the pick. We'll see. Noodles isn't here because he's in witness protection. That's why he's not on the show today.

Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on TSN4. Every year it's the same. I get socks. You get socks. We all get socks. Not me. This year, I got more.

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Yeah, I've probably gone. Are you going to break you jammed up or what happened? Starting the show. Yeah. I've been doing this show with this guy for 10 years. He started the show with, Welcome back, Overdry. Like, we're continuing, and I was like,

we're just starting. Yeah. He thought we came out of commercial break. I completely froze. Stuff happens. That's the end of the record. I had the Ripkin record. Every show for 10 years, I have started the exact same way. Yeah.

And today I came in, I'm like, Overdrive continues. And then it dawned me. I'm like, what am I doing? Start a show. Jonas, you just threw me off. I was waiting for your take on the leaves. You need a new start? Possibly. Maybe this is a chance for me to completely revamp the beginning of the show.

Maybe Jeff should introduce the show. I don't know if the... No. Why? I like when you come in front. Possible, right? I don't know if you've ever done this, but the worst is, like, on Sports Center or something. I've been on the panel where I'm describing a play and you have these two or three different thoughts, and your brain sees is right in the middle.

and you don't know what the hell you're going to say and if you don't get it together within a split second you are absolutely... Or you meander all the way through trying to get to the point you're about to make or a player that you want to talk about and you forget who you're talking. That happened to me last week or whatever you remember

when Nikki Robertson went in on the hard four check. Just blanked. Just like, was it a lot new scored? Yeah, you just kind of blank. If it's live, it's a Rodney Heron? It's a dangerous situation. It's a dangerous situation, man. Well, Dregs, it's good to see you, and you were talking about the Leafs and their

goaltending situation and, you know, what the plan is with Hilda be here, do you just keep playing? You hope Wall is going to return on Saturday? It's possible. I don't know what you're hearing on that. But what do you see happening here with the goalie rotation moving forward? Saturday is possible for Joe Wall, the expectation. I don't know, did Brubi acknowledge us today that he'll be back on the ice tomorrow? That's the hope. Yeah. Yeah. That's the whole. that Joe Wall is on the ice tomorrow. And if he is and he feels good, then I guess.

What if Hilda plays great tonight? Yeah. Well, then I think as not a organization, but as a medical department with Joe Wohl in concert, with the... Nice. Thanks, Treggs. You're backing me up. Yeah. I mean, you make that decision collectively. But that's fine, though, isn't it?

Like, if Hildaby is good, and he certainly was good the other night. Yeah, but Jonas thinks, Dreggs, that you should go to him. you shouldn't play Hilderby because that would be too much. Jonas says... I did not say that at all. Dude, you did. You said playing... If Hildopi has a great game tonight,

you said it would not be smart to play him again on Saturday. I did not say that at all. I said I was arguing with someone else about that. But you should be careful because of Woll and Stolars. I think they should have been more careful with Woll installers. Right. Revisionous history is that you believe that if Woll... Yeah, but you recognize where they're at in the standings, right?

We try to explain that, Gary. He has no respect for that whatsoever. I see a big picture. you guys are just focused on the game. Yeah, I was like, cool, you win that game, and if your goalie's out for a month. You want to see the bigger picture? Imagine the change that's going to take place

if the Maple Leafs don't make the playoffs. That's the big picture, and Joel Wall was on a heater. Yeah, all right. He just goes about doctors and health. It's all good. It's all good. It's like, yes, you could win that game, but then if he's out for a month, you're going to lose more games than you're going to win.

So what are you doing? Valid. That's my point. And they're in the situation they're in now, and the season goes on and you've got to keep playing. But, you know, in terms of the Neelander's scenario, I'm curious where... I like it.

You stand on this, where Willie's on the third line tonight. And Perube is not being shy about this. No. Like, he's like, this is the Demotion. He's not playing well. Like, not those exact words, but he's not sugar-coding this. Well, I will say this, and I was going to say it, and I will say it on Sports Center,

because I was eager to see what Jeff O'Neill's reaction to it was going to be. This is a situation where Willie Nealander is going to that third line, as a compliment to that line, right? If Bobby McBan doesn't get suspended for one game, Nielander probably isn't going to that line, simply because why would you break up that line? Right, it's playing well, right? You wouldn't.

You wouldn't with Joshua and Nick Gua. And Nick Robertson doesn't come out of the press box. You know, he stays in the press box. So, you know, Neelander is being put on that line, obviously because of his skill set, but the belief from the coach, at least, is that those two guys in Dakota Joshua and Nick Waugh we'll get him the puck.

But he's after going to put himself in a place to receive that puck and do something with it. So Willie's got to up his game for that line to be successful. But those two guys, through the eyes of Craig Barube, are the two that are probably going to get him and more engaged than he's been. I think, Darren, like we were talking about it earlier. He's got to go from being more of a consistent player

as opposed to just looking for the spectacular play, floating around the red line, and he can make the spectacular play. That game against the New York Rangers, and overtime, it's like, oh, Willie goes in there and he makes that play, and it's game over, they win the game. But there's just got to be more than that on a consistent basis, because it's just not there. Yeah, and unfortunately, you'd say that about a few others, but Willie sort of dip in and dip out has been more of an issue of late.

Can I ask you guys a question? Go ahead. Has a leading score on a team ever been criticized more than William Neander? Are you saying it's un... I think in this case, I don't think he's been great. The last quarter? He was never criticized by the coach. Are you kidding?

Oh, you're saying the coach in the marketplace. Okay, I should have clarified it. But you're saying the coach. I've never seen a leading score of a team criticized more than this. But are you talking about publicly or what we see? You know, when he's getting an earful on the bench. Publicly and what I can see at practice, what we can see during games. Do you never seen it?

Do you think, like I used this reference last night, and it might be a bit extreme, Everyone talks about Steve Isman, Scottie Bowman, got there, and said, you got to play differently. You got to change your game. There was those conversations with Ovechkin when, remember, Dale Hunter got down there and all that. It feels to me like that's what Berube is doing here. Like, Baroubae is adamant that, yes, we need you to score, we need you to be an offensive, dynamic player, but you have to check. You have to be in the right spot. You can't jump the zone.

Let me ask you this. By the way, we have Pierre LeBron with us. Pierre's join us. We'll get you in just a second here, Pierre, but we're deep in Nylander chatter. Well, Pierre, you can follow up on this. Have you seen a massive difference in his play? With Perube, you mean? With Perube in his ear, in his ear.

Have you seen, like, game by game change? Not consistently. Exactly. So it's like, I don't know. But, like, I would say Matthews has made sacrifices to his game since Barubei's arrived. He's penalty killing. Right? He's up against more difficult competition.

Right? No, you don't think so, Jonas? Yeah. Okay. Pierre, go ahead. You can jump in on this with Neelander and Perube and their relationship. Yeah, listen, I think this is pretty common that sometimes there's

an oil and vinegar aspect to the way in a coach and a star player in Iraq, and I think that's the case here between these two. I don't think it's gotten personal. I don't think it's a situation that is beyond repair at all. But I just think that Neelander's demeanor,

and Jonas is around that team every day, nothing bugs that guy. And I think that Craig Barabay wants to come to work some days and have him or other players, especially when things weren't going well earlier this year, act like it is bugging them if that makes any sense. That's what I see when I see the back and forth between the Linder and Barabay.

You know, that's the side of it that I think maybe bugs the coach. I can tell you from asking him, he does not seem bothered by it at all. Willie, you're saying. Yeah, like genuinely, and has said he likes, Craig Bruebe, likes the relationship, feels like he's someone he can talk to, feels like to Hayes' point that he has taught him to maybe simplify his game at times. I'm just saying, like, I think there's going to be a point where this is, you do it too many times. Like, he has been criticized publicly more than any other player on the team by, like, a mile.

Yeah, the only reason he criticized is because the coach knows that he has more to give. That cannot be an $11 million opportunistic player where you're getting a break here. a bounce there and you do this spectacular thing and you raise your hand up and you but you can't be criticizing the guy every five games when it's like he literally leads the team he's responsible for i don't know what percentage of goals man you're a softy today nobody can be you guys the injuries the comments on players and everything else well let me ask you this approach during the nchal when you scored 40 goals if your coach was criticizing you every other day would you be like I think Paul Maurice criticized me every other

day. If I had an off game as a 40 goal score, he'd be like, down to the third line, you go, oh, dog, you got to get your game in order, and then I would have to be a stud on the third line and get back to the... You're supposed to score four goals a game. Exactly. I mean, five sometimes. Are you suggesting that he should

take it off, Neelander, or be more consistent with other guys? I think that's probably the bigger point. If you're going to criticize him... Yes. But go out, and you've got to be realistic with who they're going at, but I look at a guy like Morgan Riley. Riley has not been perfect defensively at any point in his career. You're all over Nealander. You've got

to do this. You've got to do that. Why is he not stronger on Morgan Riley? I don't know. I don't have an answer for that. But I think that would be reasonable if he was. What you're saying is like he knows the personality of William Nealander. He knows he can handle it. It's a good way to criticize your team without actually criticizing the team. You criticize the best player.

Right. But I don't know. Like how many times can you keep doing this? Like we're in December. This has happened like 10 times. Five times? It's a go-to play. Maybe our definition of criticism isn't the same as Craig Baroube's. What would you call it? Honest assessment.

Coaching. Motivating? All right. Name me one other player who has gotten criticized like this. Within the team, I don't know. Publicly. Like, to Drex's point. In Toronto, there's nobody that's even close.

Not even close. No. And I'm not arguing against that, Jonas. I mean, you see it with younger players. Meechkoff probably puts his hand up and goes like, but he's a younger player, you know, in a different market. Willie's a, this is a 10th year in the league. He's also a game breaker, though, right?

Yeah, you know, you criticize. You need them. You're going to criticize Micelli? Okay. Yeah, well, exactly. Okay. Exactly. What's that going to do?

He's not even playing right now. With Darren Dreger, Pierre LeBron. Go ahead, Pierre. I would say, Elias Patterson in Vancouver has been much maligned at times. Valid. In the Vancouver market. It should be. I mean, I think.

Probably more so. I mean, of course, Neilner did have 45. I would say more warranted in his case. Exactly. No, no. That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

Some, like, we got that internal email this morning. I couldn't believe this, that Jacob Fowler will make his debut tonight for the Havs against Pitt. And Ken Dryden, Patrick Waugh, Carrie Price, all started their careers against the Pittsburgh Penguins. Is that a, is this a coincidence, Pierre? Are they setting him up? Like, is this the fourth guy of the great?

of goal tending in Montreal? How do we feel about Fowler going tonight? Well, I can assure you this wasn't a plan three months ago by the Montreal Canaanians that Jacob Fowler will be called up for this game. I can guarantee you that, in fact. In a perfect world, while the Canadians internally thought Fowler would get NHL games this year, it's certainly the original plan was that it would be in the second half of the season. But they need saves. And so, you know, he's played really well at the HL level. and the two guys in the NHL uniform have not been very good at all. And in particular, Samuel Motambo, who needs a reset here.

And that's the other side of all this is that the HABs internally are hoping that Motombo can, you know, take a breath here and rebound and come back better for it. And, I mean, they're not going to forget he had three good years before this year. But he's just arguably been the worst starting goalie in the league this year. And it's really hurt Montreal. It's hurt their confidence. They're a young team. and now they're looking over their shoulder,

wanting if they're going to get a save. So the call-up of Jacob Fowler is absolutely important. It's timely. And there are a lot of people around that kid that think he's up to this. So we'll see. I mean, they better play better defensively in front of them because I don't care if you're Igor Shasturkin, but the Habs defensive play has not been very good either.

Yeah, that certainly doesn't help. And we do the Canadian mood meter here with the seven Canadian coaches, and I'll get to mine next hour. I can't think of one positive team with a goaltending scenario right now. Like Demp goes out, obviously Edmonton's a mess. Wolf has not played well this year. Like by his standards, it has not gone well.

Halibuck's injured. Hildebee's playing for the leaves. Allmark's been awful, horrible. And the halves have called up a kid to play tonight. Like there's not one positive goaltending story in the country right now. You can throw in 20 teams from the U.S. with the same problems too. I guess you're right. Like is that condensed schedules?

Is it a coincidence? What do we make of the goaltending problems? Well, maybe it's just a collection of average. I mean, Hellebuck is injury. Yeah. So, I mean, he's elite. Demko is very, very good, injury-related. You know, Stu Skinner and Cal Peckard, you've got to look at the body of the work.

And, you know, we're lucky at a smaller sample size. 30 games in, and you're right. Their goal-tending has been wildly inconsistent. But we talked about this in Colorado Springs. I look into the future. I try to, right? and names like Curtis Joseph, Carrie Price, Marta Ambruder, Packard, Well, I mean, we're talking about the best of the best back in the day.

Aside from a couple of few, five years from now, there's going to be a goalie crisis, if not North America across the national hockey league. Dude, I think there already is there. Is that because you don't think kids are playing it enough? Don't think so. No, and I, Pierre and I were part of this conversation. we had two owners, owners are more hands-on now than they've ever been

at the National Hockey League level, but literally state that they're worried about goaltending in the future, not this year, next year, the year after. Five years from now, especially in North America, where are these goalies coming from? Because they're not playing hockey. It's either too expensive, or this could sound ridiculous.

Athletes aren't jumping at the opportunity to play a goal. Does that make sense? You know what I'm saying? So maybe it's the short dumpy kid that gets the pads. I don't. That's how you do. Maybe O could make a comeback as a goalie at some point. Oh, really?

I'm a short dumpy kid. I'm six feet tall. I know. I'm kidding. Philip Rivers. You would fill her two peas in a pod. I didn't explain that very well. The short dumpy kid was, I was just taken aback by that idea.

Pierre, that's, you stand by that short dumpy kids? That's the future of gold tending in the NHL. It seems like it's all giants right now. I'm not, I don't think I'll touch that particular aspect of what Dreg's just brought up. But I think Dreg's is bang on. I mean, I was there when those two owners talked to us about it. Let's bring it to Canada specifically. And maybe, because I've spent so much time, you know,

looking at the Olympic Ross. maneuvers here for Team Canada and so on. And obviously, as Doug Armstrong himself told me a couple of days ago, the Team Canada goalie position remains, quote, unquote, the most fluid still. I mean, that's just the reality for Team Canada. If you look at the NHL stats for goalies who have played a certain amount of, you know, for starters and go by nationality,

there actually even aren't that many Canadian goalies in the NHL right now. I don't, I haven't, you know, backtrack to stats on this. but I wonder if this isn't the fewest amount of Canadian goalies playing right now in the NHL and the history of the league in particular. I mean, just think about that for a moment. And listen, some of that is that the game keeps growing and we're obviously opening doors to people from all kinds of different countries playing net and playing the NHL. That's the positive spin.

But unfortunately for Canada, I don't think that's really what's happening here. I just don't think Canada's developing as many elite goalies as they used to. Let it play for free. Yeah. In minor hockey, the goalies play for free. We've had that issue with... Free gear, all that. I love that idea.

But you know what happens? The other parents say, well, that's not fair. Like, I'm paying. Why is this kid not paying? Why aren't there? Because I know from experience, I've heard, and I've seen through the grapevine, and I've been through these experience where your teams are short goalies. Like, we've got to have a goalie.

And you're right. Then it's like, well, what else do you want? Not have a goalie, not have a team, or do you want them to play? Some kids, like smaller kids, they've got to rotate who plays a net. Yeah. Yeah. No, I hear you. It's, but this is legit, worthy of a summit. Like, we joke, oh, you lose the world juniors, let's have a summit. No, this is actually existential.

Yeah, big time. And you're right. They've got to get to the bottom of that. All right, Pierre, Dregs, good seeing you guys. Thanks for doing this, as always. There are the insiders. Pierre LeBron, Darren, Dreger, joining us. Sorry about that. I owe you an apology. I was a dick comment. I want to get out before you Rob Ramey.

I want to make sure that I apologize and mention it. and say, I take that back completely. That Rob Ray's piss. I'm worried about noodles in Buffalo next week. Legit. He should go out there with the mascot's head in between the benches. That would be if he showed up with a mascot head on?

Yeah. The lion in Buffalo, the buffalo, the mascot head, and walk in between the benches with it on. I need that video. Do it. We need that video. If you have any stones, noodles. Yeah, you're going to call noodles out now?

Yeah. Okay. Luke Wilson coming up in studio, Overdrive, continues. TSN 1050 and on TSN4. Every year it's the same. I get socks. You get socks. We all get socks. Not me. This year, I got more. More socks? More for less.

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Visit a Virgin Plus store or virginplus.ca for details. Polish families place an extra plate at the Christmas table for unexpected guests. Norwegians hide Broom's Christmas Eve to avoid being taken by witches. European holiday traditions are many, but one is shared by all. Authentic European foods. This Christmas, bring the taste of Europe home for the holidays. Shop yummy market for rare European groceries and freshly prepared dishes made in store from scratch. Yummy Market.

In North York at 4,400 Dufferin Street, and Vaughn at 1390 Major McKenzie, east of Duffren. Visit yumemarket.com for their holiday menu. All right, Luke Wilson coming up. Thursday night or tonight, big week in the NFL. We've got the mood meter. Jonas has got a game. We've got the Leafs in action tonight.

We've got a lot going on here. A lot going on. You see Oklahoma City win by almost 50 last night? I think they're 24 and 1 and have won 16 games in a row. It's insane. They're going to win the most games ever in a year. Shea played like 24. minutes last night. He never plays in the fourth quarter

ever. And laughs about it. It's like, I just don't play. Someone sent me a stat today about them what the hell was it? I got to go back and find it. Or the fact that he, I think he is the average, the leading score in the first quarter, the second quarter

and the third quarter. And probably like and not in the fourth. 189th in the fourth. Does that hurt his MVP chances if it's just the three quarter player? I think it's a legitimate question though. Like if you only play a certain amount of minutes. Because there's just Because everyone's stat-driven when they're doing awards nowadays. Right.

But they're so good. You guys are all turkeys with this, though. It's nuts. Jonas is taking shrapnel on everything today. Yeah. But I don't know. I think it's a legitimate conversation, which I don't think is fair to him. Not in this case.

He's going to win. If it's not him, it's Yoke Edge. We were talking about them. Imagine the run that they can go on in the next 10 years. It's crazy. Dude, they got Caruso coming off the bench. They got guys like... They're young.

Yeah. Like no old players. With picks out the wazoo. Yeah. I think they have like Philly's pick this year. I think they have the clippers pick. Clippers suck. Clippers they do have, I believe.

It's insane. They have pick swaps. Like it's crazy how loaded they are. I don't know how you stop them. I really don't. Like a guy like Lou Dort who's a great player, no one even talks about him. He just shows up and plays and defends.

Doesn't play in the fourth quarter. Win by 50. They do something really funny after the game. They got this dude that interviews. them, and they just all start screwing with the guy. They put towels on his head. They just start laughing. They're having a good time.

Like the vibes have to be electric in that locker room. All right. Luke coming up. Leaves Sharks tonight. Overdrive continues up on YouTube live. You've been listening to Overdrive, powered by Fandul. FanDuel, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. IHart Radio. Everything holiday. All in one place. From 24-7 Christmas music

To the stories behind the Christmas hits with Drew Savage Listen to the podcast on the free IHeart Radio app Your Destination for All Things Christmas These are the songs that get you in the spirit Keep listening for all your Christmas favorites